Any experience with social skills classes?

[Innisfree]

I'm debating what to do here, and will be talking with the professionals involved.

 

Dd11 is doing really well with one-on-one interactions with adults, but has more difficulty with kids her own age. She can get overly enthusiastic and huggy or be very easily irritated. With kids she doesn't know well and trust, it's usually irritation.

 

We signed her up for a social-skills class. It is aimed at kids on the spectrum, and has a good local reputation. She did not want to go, but I'd hoped as she relaxed and settled in she'd have fun.

 

Alas, she hates it. The other kids irritate her. They all seem to love the class, several having been involved for previous sessions, and they're pushing her to participate. They ask the instructors why she's scowling. They get too close. Well, they're all on the spectrum, too. So she's been attending reluctantly but willingly, but after last night says she's done, no more.

 

I think if the other kids would just accept that she's not thrilled to be there and leave her alone, she might adjust with time, but that isn't happening.

 

So I'm debating all sorts of things.

 

This class seemed like a better fit than the only other one available locally. I still don't think she'd do well there.

 

She does do well in a 4-H group geared around her special interest, but it only meets once a month. We really need to get in more time with other kids.

 

There are no other activities she's interested in pursuing which would put her in a group of kids. Scouts was much like this present group: highly irritating. When she was in school, same deal. When she meets a bunch of kids at the playground, same deal.

 

So, assuming the instructors are willing for her to continue, and assuming I can get her there, would you push to keep her going for the sake of direct social skills instruction?

 

I'm even debating how important being able to function in a group of kids is. Eventually she'll need to cope with at least small groups of adult peers, most of whom will probably have a greater sense of boundaries than the kids in this class do. And if she does need or want to return to school at some point, which I think could be important in high school, she needs to be able to cope.

 

I'm not sure what percentage of her discomfort is due to each of the contributing factors: lots of kids, physical proximity, noise (she hasn't mentioned this, but there's a lot), unfamiliar people and environment, the activities. She complains about the kids themselves and how they get in her space and push her to participate.

 

And I'm fascinated by the fact that the other kids are so happy to be there, even the ones new to this. I'd thought reluctance in this situation was a normal thing for a kid on the spectrum. Those kids are cheerful and outgoing, if awkward.

 

Comments? Ideas?

[Lecka]

If she doesn't like it it may not be a good fit for her.

 

The kids who like it just have a different personality. It is not a reflection on her having a different personality.

 

I tend to think I might ask around a lot to try to find a kid or kids for more of planned/supervised play dates.

 

I also might talk to the people offering the social skills group about splitting the kids up into different/smaller groups to get around some of that.

 

It sounds like this is not the right group, but that social skills could still be good.

 

My son is younger but that puts us into more of a "planned/supervised/structured play date" zone.

 

I have also seen recommendations to look for things with older or younger kids, don't try too hard to stay in the same age.

 

But maybe if you ask around you find a kid or kids who might be possibilities.

 

I think too, do talk to the people who hold the class.

 

Personally I would try to say "I won't make you go back to this but I expect you to give another thing a shot" as an exchange. I can do this with my older son. If it will work it is much better for him than making him do something he really doesn't like.

 

But maybe the place that does the groups will open up an all-girl group or a group related to an interest she has (that you tell them lol) if you share with them that it is a need. Some places are responsive like that if you talk to them.

[OneStepAtATime]

Would the people running this program be willing/able to start her off with a much smaller group?  Is that an option?  How much training and background do they have?  How much effort are they putting in to helping your child feel comfortable?  Have you talked to them directly?  Have they given you any feedback?  What is the program like?  Is it a one size fits all mentality where the kids all have to just sort of fit with what they are doing or do they try to find a way for all the kids to fit well within the overall goals of the program?

[Lecka]

I want to clarify.... My son does not have the language skills for a social skills group in general.

 

So for social skills there are still recommendations besides a social skills group. And it is things like trying to set up and structure etc social opportunities that may be planned around the child in various ways.

 

There is stuff along these lines and it is various legitimate. It is an option when social skills groups are not a good option.

 

Depending on various details you might also be able to set up a group that someone else runs just by asking around and mentioning.

 

There is also stuff for structured movie discussion groups, where most of the time is spent just watching a movie and eating snacks. Maybe she would do that if some movies were chosen with her in mind (which you can mention).

 

That exists in my town and supposedly is liked by the kids who don't like a lot of things, bc it is a lower demand. And it is still social even if they are not necessarily going through a curriculum. But this structure can have more of a curriculum and goals, too, if it is set up that way. But it can also just be low demands.

[Innisfree]

Thanks, guys. I'm running around today but will be back later. I appreciate the ideas.

[Crimson Wife]

 

And I'm fascinated by the fact that the other kids are so happy to be there, even the ones new to this. I'd thought reluctance in this situation was a normal thing for a kid on the spectrum. Those kids are cheerful and outgoing, if awkward.

 

That's my DD. She loves, loves, LOVES social skills groups and would be the one in your kid's face saying, "C'mon, [name]! Let's [whatever the activity is]!" Hopefully the facilitator would be working on maintaining appropriate personal space between them and getting my DD to accept your child's non-interest. Working on those skills is why I have my child in social skills group.

 

One of the clinics in my area offers semi-private social skills training sessions with just 1 other child. It's expensive but if your child finds a standard-size group overwhelming, that might be an option to look into.

[Lecka]

That is the kind of thing where it may not so in the brochure that they have that option, but they may offer it if people ask about it. It depends but it is very possible.

[PeterPan]

Just to be totally different (and not that I'm experienced, but there you go), you could get her a series of age-appropriate videos like Model Me Kids, have her start watching age-appropriate shows to discuss stuff she sees there, and then make a serious effort to pick 3 things she'll become active in so she has to be in with peers 3 days a week.  

 

I think that would be funky to be thrown in with a bunch of ASD kids with much lower social skills on some aspects and have her really notice that and not enjoy it.  I've been told that kids who hang with other ASD kids enjoy that peer group and that kids who DON'T grow up hanging with that might not.  Like it really could just be flavor and what she enjoys.  It's an artificial group, so I don't see the point (or the absolute, ABSOLUTE necessity) of it.  

 

I'm just saying you could see it from her perspective.  But she's going to have to do SOMETHING and she's going to have to hang with SOMEBODY.  Nobody wants to be alone all the time.  So she can take a job and socialize with coworkers or join a drama club or some combination of things if this isn't workable.  

 

[Guest]

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Edited August 11, 2017 by Guest

[Princess Ariel]

I think it is very difficult for any child or even some of us adults to fit into an already existing group where everyone already knows each other and is comfortable in the group. At this point even the leader is perhaps too comfortable with the group. I know even my highly social ds had difficulty joining a drama class where the students had already been together for a while and were not necessarily eager to welcome a new face.  He begged to drop that class which was very unusual for him. It  would be nice if she could get into a new group just starting up where the kids are not familiar with each other.  If not the leader really needs to make a better effort to help her feel comfortable.  I really feel for her and understand!

My dd 15. HFA, has done social skills a few times when she was younger.  Twice through her OT clinic which did not go well the second summer she joined in (different kids each time).  It was late in the day, lead by the OTs and SLPs on staff who I felt were exhausted after a full day of work and did not seem to put in a whole lot of effort.  Dd would tell me the stories of what happened on the way home and it seemed there was a lot of poor behavior that went on under the radar. When I mentioned it to them they were really surprised.  Later on when she was in fifth and sixth grade, doing special ed part time at the ps as a homeschooler, she was the only girl in the group.  She ended up seeing and hearing way too much from those boys.  The teacher was good but it wasn't a good fit for her.  If she had continued to do part time services at the junior high level she would once again be the only girl.  Since then we just haven't found anything but she does enjoy the two art classes she takes at the coop and we are told she gets along well with the kids and she enjoys it a lot.

Good luck to your dd!

Edited August 20, 2016 by Princess Ariel

[Innisfree]

You've all given me lots to consider; thank you so much.

 

Trying to answer some points: there are only two groups of this sort available in our area, and this one is the only one which has had girls involved. During the school year it will be a bit smaller and more limited by age, but there will be a lot of the same kids involved. The instructor who is very experienced was not involved during the summer, leaving much younger colleagues in charge. I think supervision and guidance were perhaps a bit lacking.

 

If I encourage dd to try this again, I'm going to communicate with the experienced leader first and see if we can set up a way to ease her in. At the moment, though, I think I'm going to respect her wishes not to return.

 

I've told dd that I just want her in some regular activity with other kids. I'll accept an art class or dance class or whatever. Her preferred activity has kids in it, but not with much interaction between them, if that makes sense.

 

She says she'd rather just hang out with neighborhood kids at the playground, but there tend to be a lot of negative interactions there. She comes home frequently feeling really irritated by those kids too. So I'd like to have her in some setting where she can practice interactions with some guidance.

 

OhE, I'll look into those videos. We've just started trying to watch tv for social situations to discuss.

 

I do not think the social skills group kids' skills were behind dd's. If anything, they were doing better: they were friendly and willing to interact, lol, and she sure wasn't. I think she was just uncomfortable and they didn't realize she needed some space. I wouldn't expect them to understand that. Somebody made the point that maybe the group was too cohesive already, and I think that was on target. I think the young leaders were maybe too comfortable assuming that all the kids felt safe and happy to be there.

 

Crimson, if that's how your dd handles these situations, I think I'm jealous, lol. Not really, of course. But my gosh, how nice that she's a happy, outgoing kid. I was just really startled, because it's not what I'm used to. We have defensiveness, massive irritation and anger, not always, but in social situations which provoke anxiety. In activities based around her interests things are much better.

 

I'm going to go think this through and try to digest all the ideas you've given me.

[Crimson Wife]

 

I think if the other kids would just accept that she's not thrilled to be there and leave her alone, she might adjust with time, but that isn't happening.

 

This is where my child would be showing her ASD because in her mind, if SHE personally is thrilled to be at the social group, then she assumes EVERYONE feels the same way. The whole "Theory of Mind" thing. It's being worked on in ABA, speech therapy, and social group but it's still a big struggle.

 

With social skills coaching, the experience of the facilitator really matters. I've noticed that this summer when our ABA team switched around the schedule to have the less-experienced interventionist at park day with us rather than the most experienced one. The supervising BCBA is coaching but she's only there some of the time. There's a learning curve and the new girl is still figuring things out.

[Guest]

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[PeterPan]

You might consider setting the bar higher than one.  She's at an age where it's time to pick that up.  In a few years, she's going to have to be in with people full-time for a job or something.  This is not just a small thing; it's the MAIN thing she should be doing right now probably!  Like you could make it the whole emphasis of the year.

 

When I said three, I said that because with my ds we've had to kind of go overboard to get the frequency he needs.  I just don't think once a week will probably do it.  There's a book Just Give Him the Whale that would give you a LOT of ideas.  She's taking the easy way out when she says she wants to go to the playground.  What 11 yo plays on the playground?  Our playground doesn't even allow 11 yos, I don't think.  There are no demands there, no need for reciprocity, not consequences from day to do.

 

You might look for things where she would have a shared interest.  If she has a special interest, you might rabbit trail that.  Every interaction doesn't have to be the most heady.  Even something really basic like volunteering at the library (inherently solitary if she's shelving books) would still probably involve her bumping into some people.  And if that were one of the three, it would be moving UP, kwim?  

 

You could require that one of the three be taking classes, and you could keep those classes rotating to up what she's exposed to.  For instance, one month you could do Red Cross babysitter or First Aid certification.  Another month sign her up for volleyball at the Y.  Then for two months do swim lessons twice a week.  At our Y she would still be young enough to get lessons with the regular kid classes and do that two days a week.  And when you go early, you get in some socializing!  Then it's like oh there's your friend from class, do you know her name, etc. etc. 

 

That's what I've done with my ds.  I signed him up for tons of things, and when we started he wasn't responding to anyone.  Like a little 3-4 yo would walk up and try to talk with him (he was 7) and he wasn't responding!  Well now he does.  He did a lego robotics class and never tried to figure out his partner's name, lol.  I don't think they had a very reciprocal relationship, lol.  

 

Fwiw, that stuff works because I went in with him, observed, prompted, gave him pointers ahead of time, REWARDED him for behaviors, praised and commented on targeted behaviors.  It's not like I could just drop him off and have that happen.  There was a lot of ME there, doing the instruction, doing the prompting, fading the prompts.  If she won't accept you, she could accept a behaviorist and whatever there is age-appropriate.  (She goes, you notice things and email the behaviorist, behaviorist brings them up in lessons, etc.)

 

Anyways, that's what works for us, frequency and variety.  If the social groups are slim pickings, how about once a week with a private behaviorist to work on the skills?  There is curriculum they could work her through.  For us what happens is the curriculum introduces a concept and then he uses it and applies it in the new things we put him in.  Or he goes into the new thing, has problems, and the behaviorist comes in with lessons to work on those skill gaps we find.  So it's kind of pingponging it, finding the problem, working on it, working on it, stretching some more.  It has been really good for us.  

Edited August 20, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Innisfree]

OhE, you're probably right about the frequency. It intimidates me, though, because I'm not kidding about the irritability that results from too much social stress. Don't you think at some point you have to say, okay, this is enough stress for this kid and this family to handle? And judging that finely enough, so you're encouraging social growth without leading to overload, is an art. This week we've been in overload, and it's hard on everyone.

 

ABA has been very good for us, as I mentioned on that thread on the chat board recently. We are using our behaviorist to work on the stuff, and trying to mix it up, go places, do more. I'm looking into other opportunities.

 

Actually as I think this through you've got me convinced we need to work on this more. She's been doing so.well. at home and with adults that I'd kind of forgotten this extra dimension until this social skills class showed me how far we still have to go.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Innisfree

[Innisfree]

Canadian Mom, you are so right about her being an introvert. She does do much better in small groups. I think I need to balance a predominance of those, and groups that align with her interests, with occasional larger groups to practice coping with those a bit.

[Crimson Wife]

OhE, you're probably right about the frequency. It intimidates me, though, because I'm not kidding about the irritability that results from too much social stress. Don't you think at some point you have to say, okay, this is enough stress for this kid and this family to handle? And judging that finely enough, so you're encouraging social growth without leading to overload, is an art. This week we've been in overload, and it's hard on everyone.

 

Is it possible you could be getting pushback from her as an "extinction burst" in response to placing higher demands on her? That would be something to discuss with your BCBA. I know with my DD every time the bar gets raised, she pushes back at first. But if we're consistent and don't give in, she will eventually come around.

[Guest]

Just please, whatever you do, monitor her anxiety closely. You could also read some of what Temple Grandin has to say on social skills. I take a very different approach on many things and don't want my views leading to unnecessary debates that may derail your thread. You know your girl and you know what is best for her.

 

Wishing you and your girl all the best.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Guest

[PeterPan]

OhE, you're probably right about the frequency. It intimidates me, though, because I'm not kidding about the irritability that results from too much social stress. Don't you think at some point you have to say, okay, this is enough stress for this kid and this family to handle? And judging that finely enough, so you're encouraging social growth without leading to overload, is an art. This week we've been in overload, and it's hard on everyone.

 

ABA has been very good for us, as I mentioned on that thread on the chat board recently. We are using our behaviorist to work on the stuff, and trying to mix it up, go places, do more. I'm looking into other opportunities.

 

Actually as I think this through you've got me convinced we need to work on this more. She's been doing so.well. at home and with adults that I'd kind of forgotten this extra dimension until this social skills class showed me how far we still have to go.

 

Yes, agreeing with Crimson.  When we go into situations, I debrief with the behaviorist, telling her what happened.  She then gives me her take on WHY it happened, why it's ok, what we'll do about it.  And usually it's something to the tune of "he's learning to regulate the new xxx and we need to continue to give him more supports while he figures it out."  And yeah, extinction bursts.  

 

I've had some people give me some tough love over ds, and I'm trying to give you that over your dd.  It sounds like you're doing an increased amount.  I would say don't be AFRAID to bump it higher and make it a focus.  What is more important right now?  I've had an 11 yo.  You have older kids, yes?  Or this is your oldest?  I know I'm running out of time with my dd, so I can PROMISE you the years are going to go really quickly pretty soon with your dd.  I just think if you make a focus between now and age 14, you're going to be SO glad you did.  This is a golden window.  NOW is the time to make this a priority.  Like let all your academics, all your everything, begin to float around this idea.  Ramp it up.  The social thinking you do with the behaviorist can carry over to your literature, to tv, to EVERYTHING.  This is a BIG DEAL.  This is the future of her life, her ability to be with people happily in some fashion.  

 

But, you know, since you have a behaviorist, talk with him/her about it.  You could ask straight up if they think there's more you could do or should do and how you might go about it.  Sometimes when you ask open-ended questions like that, they come up with answers we weren't thinking of on our own.  

[Innisfree]

Extinction bursts. Hmm. I'd been thinking of that behavior as an indication that she really *couldn't* handle what I was asking of her, not as an indication that she could but I needed to keep gently pushing.

 

I'll talk to the BCBA, thanks.

 

And, in a complete non-coincidence, I've got Temple Grandin's new book about The Loving Push being delivered next week. I'm looking forward to that.

 

Thanks for the ideas and the tough love. I can sure use both.

[Lecka]

It sounds really hard to find a good balance, I hope you will update :)

[PeterPan]

I just got TLP from the library!  I need to get moving on reading it.  I'm rarely very excited about books anymore, but I'm really excited about that one.  :)

[Guest]

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[Mom28GreatKids]

Just a little different perspective. My oldest, not on the spectrum, but definitely extremely introverted with some quirks, just started college and this is orientation weekend where there is lots of forced fun. An assigned small group just for the weekend, lots of rah rah rah from upper class men volunteers. He wants nothing to do with any of it. He was supposed to attend a freshmen party Friday night and went to his sister's soccer game instead. Last night there were a bunch of other social things. He texted me and said he was hanging out with a friend who is a senior in his dorm. Point being, being forced to have artificial relationships is akin to nails on a chalkboard to him. But, when comfortable opportunities arise for him to engage socially he does ok. He is thinking about joining the pre-med club, playing intramural soccer and his buddy who is a junior is a disciple group leader so he may join that. These are all his choices, not forced upon him. I don't know if I would make it more of an issue if he were on the spectrum, but I do know stuff like that sucks the life out of him. So hopefully she will start making her own way with meaningful friendships made through preferred activities.

[Crimson Wife]

TLP is more along the lines of CBT and some CBT is used in it. You work on logic and show them when their patterns are negative for example and then give them choices or help them find their own if they are older. You help them get passed negative thinking more along the lines of the role of a mentor or coach. It describes a lot of what I was already doing, which is why Dr. Grandin's books have always been a useful resource for me, and why I consider her a mentor.

 

This sounds really interesting. Not sure I'll have time to read it before my fall semester classes start next week as I've already got an overdue ILL book I need to finish. But it'll go on my "to read" list.

 

[Guest]

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[Innisfree]

Just a little different perspective. My oldest, not on the spectrum, but definitely extremely introverted with some quirks, just started college and this is orientation weekend where there is lots of forced fun. An assigned small group just for the weekend, lots of rah rah rah from upper class men volunteers. He wants nothing to do with any of it. He was supposed to attend a freshmen party Friday night and went to his sister's soccer game instead. Last night there were a bunch of other social things. He texted me and said he was hanging out with a friend who is a senior in his dorm. Point being, being forced to have artificial relationships is akin to nails on a chalkboard to him. But, when comfortable opportunities arise for him to engage socially he does ok. He is thinking about joining the pre-med club, playing intramural soccer and his buddy who is a junior is a disciple group leader so he may join that. These are all his choices, not forced upon him. I don't know if I would make it more of an issue if he were on the spectrum, but I do know stuff like that sucks the life out of him. So hopefully she will start making her own way with meaningful friendships made through preferred activities.

Such a good point: I remember hating activities like that too. Yes, preferred activities are much better tolerated. We may just need to do the direct social skills instruction ourselves.

[Innisfree]

Just please, whatever you do, monitor her anxiety closely. You could also read some of what Temple Grandin has to say on social skills. I take a very different approach on many things and don't want my views leading to unnecessary debates that may derail your thread. You know your girl and you know what is best for her.

 

Wishing you and your girl all the best.

 

Yes, anxiety is a huge factor in all this.

 

But, while I do know my girl, I don't know what is best. That's why I post! All the ideas are so very helpful, including different perspectives. So please don't hesitate to offer a different view.

:-)

[Guest]

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[Guest]

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