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have you ever heard of this with daycare?


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What's with the ads?

#1 Bluegoat

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:02 PM

I belong to an online parenting group, mostly of moms with one or two young kids.  Like a lot of such groups, the parenting can seem oveblown, but ipeople are also remarkably helpful and keep their judgements to themselves.  You can disagree, but nicely, and people take it that way too.

 

I head omething different there a few days ago, and thought about saying something, but couldn't figure out how to put it.  I'm not going to now, but I am curious because it seemed like a common thing for these younger parents, but I had never heard about it at all.  It also seemed odd.

 

The OP had complained that the carers at her daycare kept telling her when her child had done something, especially a "first" at daycare.  She had asked them not to do that, because she wanted to experience those things with her child as if her seeing them actually counted as the "first".

 

Several people agreed how annoying that was, and another poster mentioned she had overheard a childcare worker in a public setting makeing fun of parents that did this with another worker, and she thought that was really beyond the pale. (Generally making fun, not naming specific people.)

 

My thought, beyond my initial surprise, was that there was something a bit odd about trying to make out like a significant portion of your child's life isn't going on at the place they spend the day, and also that it is probably hard for the workers to keep track of who want to know these things and who doesn't, and have to edit their comments in that way all the time.  (I do childcare, and I don't feel the need to pass on everything, but I also don't want to think I have to police my comments when I say what kind of day a child had.)

 

I also understood why parents might find it disconcerting to think that childcare workers talk about parents, but also naïve and maybe even unfair to think they won't - I've never been in a service job, or maybe any other, where people never feel the need to vent/bond by talking about the quirks and annoying aspects of the people they work for.  I'd have tended to assume that strange or otherwise notable parental behaviors would be a fairly common topic amongst childcare workers.

 

Have other people heard of this, and does it seem strange or odd, or perfectly normal?

 



#2 Haiku

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:07 PM

I don't think people pretend that their kid doesn't have a life at daycare. I think parents want the surprise and thrill of seeing their kid do something for the "first" time. I don't think that's odd, and I don't think it's ok to gossip about the parents whose kids you watch.


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#3 texasmom33

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:13 PM

A friend of mine was recently appalled when she learned from one of the employees at her childrens' daycare that all employees are instructed to always tell parents that they kids had a good day. Even if they didn't. No matter the horrible, no good, very bad day- they are not to give a bad report to parents. It seemed however though that this was the preferred method of other parents, rather than to get an involved report. Sounds not far off from the "I don't want to hear they did it there first" lala land the posters you're referring to seemed to want to live with. Ignorance is bliss maybe? I guess it fits into their narrative somehow. I personally would want to know though if my kid had a bad day, and so does my friend so she's now searching out new care facilities. I don't get it myself, but it's one of those tread lightly things to comment on as heaven forbid then we would be taken as judgmental etc. 


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#4 happysmileylady

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:14 PM

I am not quite sure which part you find strange....that daycare workers would be making a point to tell the mom about particular "events" or "firsts" or that the mom doesn't want them to tell her...or that everyone who agreed with mom found it annoying?

 

As for workers talking about the parents.....I just assume that everyone I am going to encounter is going to talk about me after I leave.  Because......everyone else does the same.  Think back to watching Married with Children years ago....first thing Al always said when he walked in the door was "fat woman walked into the shoe store today..."  And just in general, our encounters with other people throughout our day are the general topic of discussion with other people.  DH comes home and tells me about his coworkers-"so, I was talking with Tom today about his kid that is the same age as DD5."  My oldest, DD20, called me earlier and was discussing a customer who came through her register at her job yesterday.  That's how people work. 

 


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#5 lauraw4321

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:15 PM

When my oldest was in daycare I was concerned about missing her crawl. I repeatedly told the workers how close she was and how I wanted to see it first. It was lighthearted. But they understood what I wa saying. And to my knowledge I did see her first crawl. In that circumstance it would have been cruel to me. My guess is that's the kind of circumstance.

As far as talking about people - no one likes to be talked about behind their back. But I agree with you that it's unrealistic to think it doesn't happen.
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#6 Carol in Cal.

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:15 PM

When my dd was in daycare I was heartbroken, and I didn't really want to focus on it.

But OTOH, I always wanted to know the exact and complete truth about her.

So I would want a daycare person to care enough about her to notice if she did something new, and to tell me about it.

 

I had a friend who did very high end daycare who thought that that was rude and mean to the parents.  So she would avoid it.  If a kid took her first steps in that daycare, the friend would tell the parents, "I think she is going to be walking any minute!  Maybe even this weekend!"  I would hate to be treated that way.  It's condescending and dishonest. 

 

Also, there is the issue of the child herself.  If she does take her first steps at daycare, but the provider doesn't want to tell the parents, does she get recognized and celebrated?  If not, that's not good either. 


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#7 HomeAgain

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:15 PM

Coming from a parent who missed firsts, when I watched kids full time I did not, under any circumstances, share anything that looked like a "first" with a parent.  Once a kid toddled from the mom to me, then I would say something, but it is hard missing all that.  I'd rather let them believe the kid did X for the first time on the weekend/evening and let them have that moment.

 

It costs nothing but gives the parent something.


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#8 loowit

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:23 PM

When I worked at a daycare years ago we had parents that wanted to know every detail of the day and others who didn't want to know if a "first" happened.  I am not sure how I feel about seeing first things happen and if I want to know or not.  I tend to think that I would like to know.  My DD lost her first tooth while I was gone at a card party with my MIL.  DH sent me a cute picture.  I thought it was nice that he got to be there for something that he typically would miss.  I saw/see a lot more of my children's firsts because I was the stay at home parent.  DH loved hearing about what they had done that day and never felt the need for me to omit things just because he couldn't be there to see it.  I think that it is more, in general, a mom thing to want to be the first to see children reach a milestone.  I think it is nice if a daycare worker can know the parent's preference and follow it.

 

I can see venting to a coworker about a parent that is particularly bothersome.  Probably not the best thing to do, and never ever should be done at the place of work or around the children.  But like everything else in life there are frustrations and not being able to vent about them would be difficult.  It can be really hard being a daycare worker.  I spent a good amount of time with the children and formed an attachment, but a lot of parents don't like that.  Many would prefer us to keep a professional distance, which is really hard when you are dealing with people not products.  It is often a very delicate balancing act.


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#9 Bluegoat

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:35 PM

I am not quite sure which part you find strange....that daycare workers would be making a point to tell the mom about particular "events" or "firsts" or that the mom doesn't want them to tell her...or that everyone who agreed with mom found it annoying?

 

As for workers talking about the parents.....I just assume that everyone I am going to encounter is going to talk about me after I leave.  Because......everyone else does the same.  Think back to watching Married with Children years ago....first thing Al always said when he walked in the door was "fat woman walked into the shoe store today..."  And just in general, our encounters with other people throughout our day are the general topic of discussion with other people.  DH comes home and tells me about his coworkers-"so, I was talking with Tom today about his kid that is the same age as DD5."  My oldest, DD20, called me earlier and was discussing a customer who came through her register at her job yesterday.  That's how people work. 

 

I understand parents wanting to be there for firsts, I can't really imagine asking specifically not to hear about them so they could believe that whatever they see at home is a first.

 

As far as the workers, I tend to think that generally they just want to communicate about what kind of day the child had, or at least that is what they should be trying to do.  I know some parents want a list of every little thing, which seems like overkill to me too.  Both seem just a little too controlling, maybe, for someone who is a caregiver for you child a good part of the time?

 

What you say about people talking is pretty much how I feel - the people you work with all day are kind of what makes up your life, and so it's what people talk about.  When I was in the army, we talked about our how wrongheaded our bosses were, and I am pretty sure they talked about how annoying we were.  When I was a hotdog vendor, we used to talk about which sorts of people were good or bad tippers, or why the tourists thought they should get change in American dollars, and so on. 



#10 Bluegoat

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:40 PM

When I worked at a daycare years ago we had parents that wanted to know every detail of the day and others who didn't want to know if a "first" happened.  I am not sure how I feel about seeing first things happen and if I want to know or not.  I tend to think that I would like to know.  My DD lost her first tooth while I was gone at a card party with my MIL.  DH sent me a cute picture.  I thought it was nice that he got to be there for something that he typically would miss.  I saw/see a lot more of my children's firsts because I was the stay at home parent.  DH loved hearing about what they had done that day and never felt the need for me to omit things just because he couldn't be there to see it.  I think that it is more, in general, a mom thing to want to be the first to see children reach a milestone.  I think it is nice if a daycare worker can know the parent's preference and follow it.

 

I can see venting to a coworker about a parent that is particularly bothersome.  Probably not the best thing to do, and never ever should be done at the place of work or around the children.  But like everything else in life there are frustrations and not being able to vent about them would be difficult.  It can be really hard being a daycare worker.  I spent a good amount of time with the children and formed an attachment, but a lot of parents don't like that.  Many would prefer us to keep a professional distance, which is really hard when you are dealing with people not products.  It is often a very delicate balancing act.

 

Yes, I've seen that with the same group, and I actually have much stronger feelings about that sort of thing.  I think mall kids need, emotionally, to have caregivers they are attached to, to feel happy and secure and be really well.  So it really upsets me when I see parents wanting to avoid or prevent that kind of attachment.  I get that they may feel sad about it - I think that is totally normal - but I don't know how I would deal with a parent like that at all.


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#11 Where's Toto?

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:51 PM

I'm trying to remember back to when my oldest was in full time daycare and I honestly can't remember if I heard about at-school firsts or not. 

 

My first thought would be concern if the child learned something that could become a safety issue if the parents don't know about it.   When you're home to witness the actual firsts, you can take steps before they get good at it (standing, crawling, walking, rolling over are things that come to mind) to make sure they can't reach/go/do something unsafe.  But if they have been practicing at daycare for a week, then suddenly they are home for the weekend and much more skilled than you would expect.


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#12 Daria

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:51 PM

As someone who had a kid in daycare, and who also has worked in daycare and in schools, I think that it's important to share information in the right way.  I also think that there's a difference between withholding all information and knowing that it's exciting to see your kid take steps when you haven't seen that before, and that for some parents, knowing that someone else beat you that excitement can be painful.  So, while I share lots of details with parents, if a kid did something, and I hadn't heard from the parents that they did it at home, then I'd leave it out of my narrative of the day.  

 

I would never tell a parent of a young child "He had a bad day."  I just don't think it's helpful to characterize a kid's entire day in such a negative way. If something specific happened that I felt that a parent should know about, then I'd tell them that specific thing as part of the report, but it wouldn't include any kind of statement judging the entire day.  I'd simply say something like this:  "Johnny loved the peaches you sent in his lunch. He's getting good at getting them in his mouth even though they're slippery.   We went outside this morning for a walk, and he was so excited to point at a kitty he saw!  Johnny didn't sleep well today, he woke up early from both of his naps.  He pulled at his left ear several times, and this afternoon, after the second nap he protested every time I tried to put him down to play on the floor, something he usually loves, so we had some extra cuddles.  If he doesn't sleep well tonight, it might be worth getting someone to check his ear."  Similarly, for an older child, I might explain a specific incident "Mary hit twice today.  The first time, it was after another child took a toy she was playing with.  The second time, we weren't able to identify a reason." and follow up with either.  "We addressed it by . . . . " or "I told her that I would be speaking to you about it so you could talk to her at home about solving problems another way."  

 

In contrast, on the second day of Kindergarten, I picked up my kid and was told something along the lines of "He was awful today.  You need to talk to him." and when I asked "What did he do?" She said "I can't remember, I just know it was annoying." As a parent, there's nothing helpful about a statement like that.  Luckily at 5, I could ask my son "Did you get yelled at?"  "OK, what were you doing right before she yelled at you?"  and then problem solve from there.  


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#13 kewb

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:58 PM

It is absolutely unacceptable for staff to be gossiping about parents. The comments of the worker sound like the comments of someone who does not have children. I take that with a grain of salt. The gossiping in ear shot of other parents is terrible.

As for the firsts. My kids daycare was fantastic about that. If your child did something new they would try like mad to get them to do it for you because it doesn't count until mom/dad see it.
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#14 dmmetler

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 01:26 PM

I was actually relieved that the child care teachers told me when DD started crawling, pulling up, walking, etc. She was on the border of delayed, and invariably, she'd do it first away from me. It seems like she needed to make sure she could do it before she did it at home. She still tends to try things out by herself on the motor skills side before she wants to show them off for me, so I rarely get to see new tumbling moves (for example) until after she's solid-and often not until she's using them in a cheer routine. She's a bit on the perfectionistic side, and I guess it started really, really early.
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#15 marbel

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 01:27 PM

If service workers could never vent about difficult customers/clients, they would probably lose their minds.  Of course they should never do that where customers/clients or their kids can hear them.   (I say this as someone who worked in customer service in some form or another for 20+ years.)

 

Sometimes something happens that people need to process.  A customer might yell at the worker about something, and the worker needs to talk it out with someone, maybe for help in determining how not to let it happen again, or for confirmation that the customer was acting like a jerk.  Sometimes it just makes for a crazy story that people want to share about their day.  My daughter works in a cafe.  When she comes home she tells me about things that customers did, like someone taking a pocket full of creamers, or yelling at her because her shop doesn't sell a particular food item that the customer thinks they should sell.  Of course the workers talk about stuff among themselves.   I'm sure daycare workers have their own share of stories. 

 

I just want to be the kind of customer that no one has any crazy stories about.  I want to be the person that the workers are glad to see walk in the door or hear when they pick up the phone. 

 


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#16 Bluegoat

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 01:31 PM

It is absolutely unacceptable for staff to be gossiping about parents. The comments of the worker sound like the comments of someone who does not have children. I take that with a grain of salt. The gossiping in ear shot of other parents is terrible.

As for the firsts. My kids daycare was fantastic about that. If your child did something new they would try like mad to get them to do it for you because it doesn't count until mom/dad see it.

 

I don't really think its gossiping if they aren't talking about specific people, it's just talking about their jobs.  They weren't near any of the parents in any case, the person who overheard them had nothing to do with the daycare, it was just childcare workers talking together.



#17 Janeway

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 08:43 PM

I belong to an online parenting group, mostly of moms with one or two young kids.  Like a lot of such groups, the parenting can seem oveblown, but ipeople are also remarkably helpful and keep their judgements to themselves.  You can disagree, but nicely, and people take it that way too.

 

I head omething different there a few days ago, and thought about saying something, but couldn't figure out how to put it.  I'm not going to now, but I am curious because it seemed like a common thing for these younger parents, but I had never heard about it at all.  It also seemed odd.

 

The OP had complained that the carers at her daycare kept telling her when her child had done something, especially a "first" at daycare.  She had asked them not to do that, because she wanted to experience those things with her child as if her seeing them actually counted as the "first".

 

Several people agreed how annoying that was, and another poster mentioned she had overheard a childcare worker in a public setting makeing fun of parents that did this with another worker, and she thought that was really beyond the pale. (Generally making fun, not naming specific people.)

 

My thought, beyond my initial surprise, was that there was something a bit odd about trying to make out like a significant portion of your child's life isn't going on at the place they spend the day, and also that it is probably hard for the workers to keep track of who want to know these things and who doesn't, and have to edit their comments in that way all the time.  (I do childcare, and I don't feel the need to pass on everything, but I also don't want to think I have to police my comments when I say what kind of day a child had.)

 

I also understood why parents might find it disconcerting to think that childcare workers talk about parents, but also naïve and maybe even unfair to think they won't - I've never been in a service job, or maybe any other, where people never feel the need to vent/bond by talking about the quirks and annoying aspects of the people they work for.  I'd have tended to assume that strange or otherwise notable parental behaviors would be a fairly common topic amongst childcare workers.

 

Have other people heard of this, and does it seem strange or odd, or perfectly normal?

I find it very odd that a parent would not want to know their child took a first step or otherwise, because they wish to pretend nothing happened all day and the first step was in front of them. As if the child ceases to exist all day. They sound like selfish and self centered people.


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#18 kewb

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 09:16 PM

I find it very odd that a parent would not want to know their child took a first step or otherwise, because they wish to pretend nothing happened all day and the first step was in front of them. As if the child ceases to exist all day. They sound like selfish and self centered people.


Speaking for myself, it was neither selfish nor self centered to pretend I saw it first. It is difficult enough when you are working because you have to. The guilt of missing out on all those firsts is crushing. Of course, I knew that my baby was experiencing all kinds of great things while I was at work. I didn't think my child ceased to exist while I was at work. The staff helping me see a first as first was one of the many great things they did for me and my children.
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#19 EmseB

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 10:25 PM

This sort of thing reminds me of a woman I knew; when she was pregnant her husband did not want to know when she felt the baby kick until he could feel it from the outside. Like if she didn't talk about it, it must not be happening. But he did feel really genuinely bad about there being some kind of milestone he couldn't be witness to, and he couldn't just be joyful for the milestone for its own sake because he felt left out.
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#20 abcmommy

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 10:32 PM

It is absolutely unacceptable for staff to be gossiping about parents. 

 

This is beyond naive.

 

Daycare workers are paid minimum wage and you expect them to be what, SAINTS?

 

"Gossip" aka talking about the people we work with and for, is a huge part of life.  


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#21 Kinsa

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 11:08 PM

When my sister was trained to be a daycare worker, she was taught to never tell parents when a "first" was done at the daycare. The appropriate response is, "Jonny is so very close to taking his first step! I wouldn't be surprised if it happens tonight at home!" --- even when the first step Was Done at daycare.

It's total BS, of you ask me. Further convinced me never to put my kids in daycare, if I could help it.
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#22 Lawyer&Mom

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:02 AM

I have a baby in full time daycare. I love hearing about her accomplishments at school, including her firsts. It's okay that she has her own little life separate from me. I love her school, she loves her school, it's all good.
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#23 bookbard

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:51 AM

I have worked in a number of early childhood places. In one, it was utterly unacceptable to be critical of parents, we were there to support them and we were there understanding that little kids are tough work. That was a far better place to work than a different place, where the gossiping about parents and criticism of them went on - it was as though those kids belonged to us and the parents weren't good enough for them! I think that a professional team will not entertain much time criticising and second-guessing families - it is not useful or helpful and doesn't do much for morale. 

 

In regards to the 'firsts', yes, we would never say 'she walked today'! We would always wait until the parent brought it up, as someone said, it costs us nothing, and could be very painful for the parents. And in regards to the 'bad day' thing, well, now I understand that better than ever. What's the point of them telling me that she did such and such when I wasn't there to do anything about it, and can't do anything about it now? I don't mind 'she had a few meltdowns today' or whatever, but I don't want to have to answer 'now WHY did she have a tantrum in group time?' I wasn't there - how should I know?


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#24 J-rap

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 04:14 AM

It seems funny to me that a parent wouldn't want to know what "firsts" were happening.  Even if I didn't have the opportunity to see it with my own eyes, I'm pretty sure I'd love to hear about it!

 

One thing that struck me as a little odd recently was when my nephew's wife was telling me that their daycare provider sends her text updates throughout the day with little pictures and reports of their baby.  Of course she as the parent thought it was a wonderful way to keep up, but I immediately pictured the daycare provider spending half the time on her phone taking pictures and texting all the parents throughout the day instead of just focusing on being with the kids!

 


Edited by J-rap, 13 August 2016 - 04:14 AM.

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#25 kewb

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 05:57 AM

This is beyond naive.

Daycare workers are paid minimum wage and you expect them to be what, SAINTS?

"Gossip" aka talking about the people we work with and for, is a huge part of life.


If you read the rest of what I wrote, I was talking about gossiping about other parents in earshot of clients. That is unacceptable.
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#26 kewb

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:08 AM

When my sister was trained to be a daycare worker, she was taught to never tell parents when a "first" was done at the daycare. The appropriate response is, "Jonny is so very close to taking his first step! I wouldn't be surprised if it happens tonight at home!" --- even when the first step Was Done at daycare.

It's total BS, of you ask me. Further convinced me never to put my kids in daycare, if I could help it.


So, helping a parent experience the joy of a first is total bs and not a kindness? You really think parents are that stupid that they don't know their kid experienced first things while at daycare?

Exactly what is the harm in being part of a parents support system? Daycare is not just about babysitting. It is being part of someone's family. Maybe it is just my family but if grandma was watching my baby and did a first while I was out grandma would be trying like heck to get baby to do it when I came home so I could see it first. Grandma wouldn't be gushing at me that baby took their first steps, too bad you missed it.

My son took his first independent steps at day care. When I picked him up that night they had him walk to me. The staff didn't gloat that he did this while I was at work. They told me that he had been working on it all day to greet me when I got there. I am not an idiot. Clearly he was walking all day there but it was a kindness to phrase it in a way that I was seeing his first steps and not missing out on his first moments.
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#27 Junie

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 08:32 AM

I was introduced to this dilemma when I was a teenager working in the church nursery.  A baby was taking some tentative steps, so I knew he was a new walker.  And, he hadn't been walking the previous week.

 

When his mother came to pick him up, he took a few steps toward her.  She was so excited that her baby took his First Steps -- and they were toward Mama.

 

I just zipped my lip.


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#28 Junie

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 08:34 AM

When I worked at a daycare years ago we had parents that wanted to know every detail of the day and others who didn't want to know if a "first" happened.  I am not sure how I feel about seeing first things happen and if I want to know or not.  I tend to think that I would like to know.  My DD lost her first tooth while I was gone at a card party with my MIL.  DH sent me a cute picture.  I thought it was nice that he got to be there for something that he typically would miss.  I saw/see a lot more of my children's firsts because I was the stay at home parent.  DH loved hearing about what they had done that day and never felt the need for me to omit things just because he couldn't be there to see it.  I think that it is more, in general, a mom thing to want to be the first to see children reach a milestone.  I think it is nice if a daycare worker can know the parent's preference and follow it.

 

I can see venting to a coworker about a parent that is particularly bothersome.  Probably not the best thing to do, and never ever should be done at the place of work or around the children.  But like everything else in life there are frustrations and not being able to vent about them would be difficult.  It can be really hard being a daycare worker.  I spent a good amount of time with the children and formed an attachment, but a lot of parents don't like that.  Many would prefer us to keep a professional distance, which is really hard when you are dealing with people not products.  It is often a very delicate balancing act.

 

:)  I was right in the middle of reading this post when dd6 came running into the room to report that she had lost her first tooth.


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#29 Kinsa

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:31 AM

So, helping a parent experience the joy of a first is total bs and not a kindness? You really think parents are that stupid that they don't know their kid experienced first things while at daycare?

Exactly what is the harm in being part of a parents support system? Daycare is not just about babysitting. It is being part of someone's family. Maybe it is just my family but if grandma was watching my baby and did a first while I was out grandma would be trying like heck to get baby to do it when I came home so I could see it first. Grandma wouldn't be gushing at me that baby took their first steps, too bad you missed it.

My son took his first independent steps at day care. When I picked him up that night they had him walk to me. The staff didn't gloat that he did this while I was at work. They told me that he had been working on it all day to greet me when I got there. I am not an idiot. Clearly he was walking all day there but it was a kindness to phrase it in a way that I was seeing his first steps and not missing out on his first moments.


I do consider it unkind to lie to a parent and delude them into thinking that their choice to utilize daycare means they will not miss out on a few milestones, yes.
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#30 texasmom33

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 10:34 AM

I do consider it unkind to lie to a parent and delude them into thinking that their choice to utilize daycare means they will not miss out on a few milestones, yes.


I agree. And as a parent why would anyone WANT to be lied to by a caregiver? I really don't get it. And then if you're asking them to omit the good so that feelings and egos aren't bruised, do you really expect them to honestly let you know the bad and ugly of what goes on in a day as well? I think caregivers are damned if they do, damned if they don't in this position. It's selective honesty, which I'm sure happens obviously anyway as child care is a business and not a charity- it's not like they're going to say anything to hurt the business- but still. I don't get the lie to me mentality, but from a couple of threads lately I can tell it's not unusual. I've never had a child in daycare even when I worked, but I cannot picture telling my oldest's pre-k or K teacher not to tell me something or to whitewash a day of my child has a bad day- and yes sometimes people just have bad days all around. I don't get the shame in admitting this. I guess expectations are different between school and daycare settings.
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#31 kewb

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 10:39 AM

I do consider it unkind to lie to a parent and delude them into thinking that their choice to utilize daycare means they will not miss out on a few milestones, yes.


Wow, their choice. You do realize that there are many people who are not working by choice. They are working to support their family, or put food on the table, or a multitude of other reasons.

You are so smug in your superioty that you are incapable of comprehending what I am saying. That all working parents are well aware that their children are hitting milestones while they are at work. That their child is learning and growing while they are not there. That is usually why they do extensive research to find the best daycare they can afford. It is not deluding to partake in a little fantasy when you are well aware of what is going on.

I am going to assume that I am applying a tone to your words that is not the one you intend and recuse myself from further discussion on this topic.
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#32 Zinnia

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 10:49 AM

First steps are one of those milestones that occur so early in our parenting journey, though.  I had a child that walked at 10 months old, and I have friends with kids that walked sooner.  That's still, what, 7 months into daycare?  So, so soon.

 

I like to think that parents can be eased into realizing that of course milestones and firsts are going to happen when your kids are away from you.  But it's still fun for the first few big things to happen for you, when you are right there.  

 

I have a child going to 4th grade this year.  I send him with a neighbor in a carpool.  I just assume that he gets to his classroom.  He also went to school for kindergarten.  That year, I walked him inside the building to his classroom every single day.  Some moms just need time to get used to kids growing up and getting bigger.  Nothing wrong with coddling a little bit.


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#33 Kinsa

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 12:39 PM

Wow, their choice. You do realize that there are many people who are not working by choice. They are working to support their family, or put food on the table, or a multitude of other reasons.

You are so smug in your superioty that you are incapable of comprehending what I am saying. That all working parents are well aware that their children are hitting milestones while they are at work. That their child is learning and growing while they are not there. That is usually why they do extensive research to find the best daycare they can afford. It is not deluding to partake in a little fantasy when you are well aware of what is going on.

I am going to assume that I am applying a tone to your words that is not the one you intend and recuse myself from further discussion on this topic.


Yes, you are reading smugness that isn't there. I myself utilized full-time daycare (12 hours a day) for the first year of my twins' lives while I was an active duty military member. I quickly learned that the daycare providers were lying to me, and it made me feel like a chump. I do not consider that to be "partnering" with my parenting efforts. Perhaps other parents prefer that scheme, but I think it's malarkey. Especially since it made me wonder what else they were lying to me about. ETA: I'm not anti-daycare; I'm anti-lying to parents about their own children.

Edited by Kinsa, 13 August 2016 - 12:53 PM.

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#34 Daria

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:47 PM

People are making this sound like there is pattern of daycare teachers lying to parents on an ongoing basis.  

 

Most early skills develop over time.  Babies don't dramatically go from sitting to not sitting, they gradually stay up a little longer with a little less support.  They don't suddenly go from babbling to talking, there's this period where we're attributing meaning to somewhat random sounds, or they're repeating sounds that they've had some success using for attention, but without a clear understanding that "Dada" means Daddy as opposed to "Saying Dada in front of him guarantees me a bunch of attention".  Pincer grasps, crawling, using your hands with toys, and many other important milestones develop this way.  We as adults look at these skills that are gradually shaping up over time, and then decide that in our mind this particular episode is close enough to "count".  

 

So, we're really talking about first steps here, because that's the one skill where the kid isn't doing it, and then they are.  For some kids crawling happens that way too.

 

The reality is that, when I was teaching daycare back during grad school, I did not tell the parents every skill the kids exhibited every day.  How could I?  I'd spend 3 or 4 hours going over the day.  "Then when he was on the changing table, he reached for the mobile with two hands, instead of one, and when I smiled he smiled back, and he seemed to focus his eyes on his toes for a little longer today . . . ".  No, I hit two or 3 highlights.  "He got a lot of food in his mouth today!"  "He sure is loving reading books together.  He pats the pictures when I talk about words, and looks up at me when I stop reading to get me going again."  And on, the one day in the first year of care that a kid might have taken a couple steps, I either chose something else for the highlight reel, or I described it a little loosely as  "He's has been trying to walk all day.  He'll be running around before you know it!"  or I quietly set them up to show off their skill without pointing out that "His actual first steps were to Miss Sam just before nap."  I let parents feel a little surprise and joy when they say it, without focusing on the fact that someone else had that same surprise a little earlier. 

 

Now, if you get one of those rare parents who doesn't want to hear any highlights at all, because they're so conflicted about leaving their kid?  Yes, that's selfish, but that's not the norm.  And if you get the caretaker who simply says "He had a good day" and nothing else, that sucks too.  But that's not what we're talking about.  

 

 


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#35 AMJ

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 02:46 PM

When my dd was in daycare I was heartbroken, and I didn't really want to focus on it.

But OTOH, I always wanted to know the exact and complete truth about her.

So I would want a daycare person to care enough about her to notice if she did something new, and to tell me about it.

 

I had a friend who did very high end daycare who thought that that was rude and mean to the parents.  So she would avoid it.  If a kid took her first steps in that daycare, the friend would tell the parents, "I think she is going to be walking any minute!  Maybe even this weekend!"  I would hate to be treated that way.  It's condescending and dishonest. 

 

Also, there is the issue of the child herself.  If she does take her first steps at daycare, but the provider doesn't want to tell the parents, does she get recognized and celebrated?  If not, that's not good either. 

 

 

I always appreciated reports (and photos! They would take photos!) of any firsts and accomplishments my children had while at daycare.  My MIL would drop my kids off at daycare for me in the mornings -- this would allow me to go to work earlier and get out earlier, thereby picking up my kids earlier and lessening their time away from family.  Daddy had his alone time with the kids for a little while in the mornings, then Grandma Taxi would collect them, then they would play with their friends at school (we always referred to daycare as "school" so the kids were used to that concept -- and eager for it -- right from the start), then Mommy would collect them and take them home for time with Mommy, then Daddy would get home and everyone would be together.

 

While the changing of the guard regarding the children lessened their time in daycare and kept them eager for the fun (never tired of it and not wanting to go) it did not lessen the time DH or I had to spend away from the kids as we worked.  Neither of us expected to be there for most or all of the "firsts".  We liked hearing about it from whomever witnessed it, and always talked to our child about it later and congratulated them.  We would then cheer and celebrate again when the child in question demonstrated the new ability for us, just as Grandma & Grandpa and the kids' aunts and uncles would do when they got to witness the ability, too.

 

Grandma and I would each stay for several minutes when dropping off and picking up, and we would visit with the teachers/caregivers.  This proved to be invaluable.  Not only did I get the written reports of "firsts" and other landmarks, both Grandma and I got further details, and we were able to provide details and reports in return to the caregivers, and the caregivers appreciated that.  We all had a much better idea what was going on with each of my kids before they could speak and tell us, and I could with complete confidence answer truthfully whether my child had reached certain milestones at check-ups with the doctor.


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#36 Daria

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:00 PM

 I could with complete confidence answer truthfully whether my child had reached certain milestones at check-ups with the doctor.

 

Are you imagining kids who are walking for days or weeks in one place, and not in the other?  As both a parent, and a former daycare teacher, I've never experienced that.  I was talking about situations where a kid takes a couple tentative steps at daycare, the teacher says nothing and when the parent comes in the next day and says "He took his first steps last night" the teacher says "Congratulations!  He's such a big boy."   Or like a previous poster said, setting up the kid to walk to Mom at pick up, and not mentioning that it's been happening since lunch time.

 

Yes, I agree that hiding something for days or weeks would be dishonest, but in my experience once kids "get" a skill like walking, they want to show it off all the time.


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#37 Terabith

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:47 PM

I work in a preschool.  I do tend to avoid not mentioning the big milestones:  first steps, crawling, words.  I certainly wouldn't lie, but I just don't mention it.  I can imagine scenarios where that would be different:  Mom has been worried about lack of them; child takes first steps and instead of tentative wobble is very proficient.  But especially with certain parents, that you just get a sense would be upset to know that they missed them, I think it's kind to refrain from mentioning. 

 

I don't lie about good/ bad days.  I will say, "So and so had a rough day.  Was very tearful, etc."  But I try to say good things, too.  It just depends. 


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#38 AMJ

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:22 PM

Are you imagining kids who are walking for days or weeks in one place, and not in the other?  As both a parent, and a former daycare teacher, I've never experienced that.  I was talking about situations where a kid takes a couple tentative steps at daycare, the teacher says nothing and when the parent comes in the next day and says "He took his first steps last night" the teacher says "Congratulations!  He's such a big boy."   Or like a previous poster said, setting up the kid to walk to Mom at pick up, and not mentioning that it's been happening since lunch time.

 

Yes, I agree that hiding something for days or weeks would be dishonest, but in my experience once kids "get" a skill like walking, they want to show it off all the time.

 

 

First, I had plenty of times when I got off work early to take my child to the pediatrician for a check-up, and on several of those occasions my child did indeed clearly demonstrate certain milestones at the daycare that day (that happened with both of my kids).  This is especially common among young babies, as mine were (limited paid leave and limited finances necessitated a return to work just a few weeks after having given birth).

 

Secondly, not every child will be gung-ho about showing off one new skill at every opportunity, especially if another new skill grabs their attention more.  My eldest happened to pick up on certain observations of adults and learned to tease right at the time she was learning to stand on her own.  It took not just her family but her daycare teachers a lot of repeated vigilance and readiness with a camera to finally catch her actually standing free on her own.  She had been teasing the lot of us for some time acting as if she were going to start standing and then not, or rapidly squatting back down when she saw someone turn to look at her directly.  It was a jolly fun game to her, playing catch-me-at-it-if-you-can.  She played that game with each adult in her life until we each managed to catch her at it.  Her sense of humor and appreciation of silly still shine strong to this day.

 

It was never weeks on end between my kids demonstrating a new skill at one place and then another, but timing of occurrences and appointments -- combined with a too-short supply of time for DH and I as parents to simply sit and play with the kids during the work week -- did mean that the daycare teachers were the information source on what each of my children accomplished most recently.  Our pediatrician appreciated the daycare's reports to me as much as DH and I did.  It wasn't weeks before we would get to see the new accomplishment at home, but sometimes lack of opportunity did cause a lapse of several days, until the weekend arrived and we could all relax and spend ample time playing together at home.


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#39 dmmetler

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:37 PM

Are you imagining kids who are walking for days or weeks in one place, and not in the other? As both a parent, and a former daycare teacher, I've never experienced that. I was talking about situations where a kid takes a couple tentative steps at daycare, the teacher says nothing and when the parent comes in the next day and says "He took his first steps last night" the teacher says "Congratulations! He's such a big boy." Or like a previous poster said, setting up the kid to walk to Mom at pick up, and not mentioning that it's been happening since lunch time.

Yes, I agree that hiding something for days or weeks would be dishonest, but in my experience once kids "get" a skill like walking, they want to show it off all the time.


My DD would do exactly that. She'd barely be pulling up at home, be cruising and move to wobbly steps at daycare, but not do it at home until she was practically running. It was usually only a matter of a few days or a week, but it was consistent. As I said above, I guess she was born a perfectionist or something. Having said that, since she was being followed developmentally due to prematurity, so her daycare teachers knew that we needed to know progress she was making. If I hadn't been so relieved she was doing milestone X, I might have been annoyed at how consistently she saved her firsts for other people. The same kid also lost her first tooth in a once every 2 weeks homeschool science class :).
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#40 Meriwether

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:44 PM

If you don't think daycare workers should mention firsts, do you think one parent should mention them to the other?


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#41 Daria

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 09:06 PM

If you don't think daycare workers should mention firsts, do you think one parent should mention them to the other?

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I don't think daycare workers should mention firsts.  I think that daycare workers should communicate with parents, and part of that communication should be working out expectations for communication.  I also think that if a parent expresses a wish to not know about "firsts" that happen at daycare, the daycare workers should honor that wish, and that labeling the daycare workers as "dishonest" or the parents as "selfish" is unfair.  

 

I would apply the same thing to parents.  If you as a parent have opinions about how you want to learn about your child's accomplishments, then hopefully you have the kind of relationship where you can communicate that.  If your child's other parent expresses a wish, whether it's "please call me as soon as she walks, I'm eager for the news" or "I love being surprised when she does something new, can you wait to tell me about new skills until I can see it for myself?  then I think the kind thing is to honor that.  If you don't know what your spouse/partner wants, then maybe you should ask.  


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#42 Diana P.

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 09:51 PM

This thread is just weird to me.

My older two kids went to daycare. I expected daycare:
To tell me about the day good or bad
To tell me about a first (because how do they I hadn't already seen it last night. IOW it was a first for the daycare, but they don't it's a first altogether)

I didn't pretend my dc weren't doing stuff there. That's just silly.

I absolutely expect daycare workers to talk about parents when they are out blowing off steam from a long day. If they don't get that release it's going to hamper their own ability to recover and be ready for the next day. Blowing off steam should not be done at work.

No one should delude themselves into thinking that workers in any field don't talk with coworkers , friends or spouses about work. It is delusional to believe that workers don't make jokes about the things and people they encounter as part of the work day.
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#43 Bluegoat

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 07:09 AM

I think what I found really most odd, and what the complaining worker seemed to be complaining about, was the amount of control being exersized on communication.

 

I tend to value a pretty open, natural communication between the carers and parents.  I don't think it's necessary to tell every little thing, or desirable, but I also am not all that keen on the idea of very deliberatly editing or censoring the conversation.  It just seems very artificial to me, and not the kind of relationship I'd want with someone, or a business, that I was entrusting with part of raising my kids.

 

And that is I think perhaps why it seems to me that there is some kind of gap I find makes me wonder - although people might not enjoy it, realistically to me a daycare is in fact a partner in raising kids, and it's important to realize that to have the best care. ( I find I also feel uncomfortable when people are very controlling with how nannies interact with their kids - to me it suggests a lack of trust that this is a good sensible person who has something to offer a child.)

 

The comment the person overheard from the worker was about "getting in trouble" if she revealed something a child had done, with a bit of an eye-roll.  I guess I just don't feel like that is quite a healthy dynamic, communication-wise - it sounds too much like childcare as a sort of product rather than a personal interaction.


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