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Nice or too far?  

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  1. 1. Nice or overstepping boundaries? (multiple choices allowed)

    • Nice people who went out of their way to return lost crafts :0)
      181
    • Overstepping or at least boundary stretching,
      10
    • I want a paper periscope!!
      17
    • Other.....
      5


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I am not a fan of churches being pushy about proselytizing but it definitely is not unheard of. Certain churches around here do stuff like that. It was done with nice intentions but the part of being asked to go to their church and going on and on about it always leaves me with a bad feeling.

Edited by MistyMountain
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A baptist church around here had a park party that was at a park we were near recently. They ended up cornering me and being really pushy about wanting my kids in their church and how they will pick them up. They went on for quite a while about it. Then they did a talk where they separated the kids and try to get them to say they accept Jesus or something like that. I do not mind when churches talk about biblical stuff or a short mention of being invited to their church in a no pressure way but I do not like when they get pushy and encourage you to be pushy about it with everyone you know.

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She seemed to say that if you are using VBS, you need to volunteer. she even gave a suggested amount of time, based on how long your child is in VBS, and said paying for it isn't enough. Seemed pretty clear. 

 

She also said there were exceptions. You volunteered before, you plan on volunteering again, you just currently can't because you've got a 3yo. I don't think she was thinking of you when she went on her rant, and I don't think she thinks you should hire a babysitter so you can volunteer right now.

 

Now, whether her rant was warranted is another thing altogether. I just don't think she's mad at you. ;)

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I'm sure this isn't the reply you were looking for, and I don't want to provoke any bad feelings or shame here...But I do have to say something. Would you (and possibly others who read this in the future) consider my view and experiences?

 

I don't know you and I'm not assuming you fall in to one of the examples below, but I think this viewpoint adds a bit to the discussion, even if it's a bit off-topic:

 

Most activities like VBS take an incredible amount of work if you really try to teach children well and in engaged ways. As a mom of young kids, I've volunteered my time, energy, creativity, and money to help with the VBSs we've participated in. VBS is not my natural calling so it's not like it's some sort of hobby for me.

 

I've stretched and helped out because I believe, if, as parents, we're going to take advantage of an opportunity to leave our children in a safe, protected environment with uncompensated volunteers, who are going to instruct them on (IMO) the most important facet of life (faith), we should be willing to pitch in a little. And not just the registration fee, which, in most cases, would not come even close to covering what a daycare provider would charge. For example: you leave your child(ren) 5 days of the VBS week, you pitch in 1 or 2 days of help. You leave them for 2 days, you pitch in a day or a few hours. Maybe you pitch in 10% of the time they're there. The point is adding to the whole experience for others but still having quite a break for the norm as a mom.

 

It really burned me when I volunteered at a VBS in the past that some moms would just breeze in, drop their kids off for the VBS day, and run off to indulge in their "me" time or whatever--like it was free babysitting. There's nothing wrong with "me time" in my book but there was never any thought of pitching in on these folks' parts. They didn't express any gratitude (not my motivation for volunteering). The problem was they exuded the entitlement mentality. I have no issue with people who would do this for part of the VBS and then pitch in for some time as well. VBS could also be a true break for a family that is in dire straits of some sort. But in my book, not having a latte in 6 months isn't "dire". LOL

 

Then there are those who jump from VBS to VBS throughout the summer with no intention of actually becoming part of any church community involved. It's just free babysitting. No consideration for the actual meaning of VBS, which is akin to a "school" for learning about the Bible or faith when a kid is on "Vacation" from normal "School". Most VBSs are generally open to the neighborhood and I see the value of providing a great opportunity for children who would never have experienced something like it otherwise. I didn't grow up in the church and really could have benefited from VBS--learned something my folks would never have taught me. It's for these children many volunteers sacrifice and my issue isn't with the children who attend. It's with the entitled parents who know better and can do better (not all parents are in this boat).

 

I do know the "creepiness" of which some of you speak and I don't like churches like that either, but--seriously? Don't go to a VBS if you don't have any intention of attending there. That solves it and creates less of a "daycare" atmosphere for those trying to create something meaningful and instructional for the children involved.

 

Sorry for this rant. I, like most parents, have a lot on my plate. To sacrifice time in one area of life means another area of life is neglected. To give my time to others = less time for my family or to recharge my batteries. There's only so much to go around. I wish more people in "our" generation (i.e., adults with kids) would just pitch in a bit more. It would mean a richness for all of our children. Perhaps much of this post is just me mentally preparing for the VBS I have committed to help with in a few weeks :001_rolleyes: ...as our own homeschool year is starting... Perhaps I should not have committed myself to it since I seem to resent other people who don't pitch in but: my kids want to go, it's our faith community that we are a part of each-and-every week, and I think if all parents involved give just a little of themselves, it can be a smashing success in developing community between our younger people (those of the church and the surrounding neighborhoods).

 

For the OP's case: have you considered dealing with your question by writing a thank you note to the church, expressing your thankfulness for the opportunity, sharing an example of what your daughter got out of it, and politely explaining that you are not considering attending services there? It seems to me that would answer their valid question of whether or not you're interested in their community.

All this judgement is one reason I rarely become involved in church activities.

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I'm sure this isn't the reply you were looking for, and I don't want to provoke any bad feelings or shame here...But I do have to say something.  Would you (and possibly others who read this in the future) consider my view and experiences?  

 

I don't know you and I'm not assuming you fall in to one of the examples below, but I think this viewpoint adds a bit to the discussion, even if it's a bit off-topic: 

 

Most activities like VBS take an incredible amount of work if you really try to teach children well and in engaged ways.  As a mom of young kids, I've volunteered my time, energy, creativity, and money to help with the VBSs we've participated in.  VBS is not my natural calling so it's not like it's some sort of hobby for me.  

 

I've stretched and helped out because I believe, if, as parents, we're going to take advantage of an opportunity to leave our children in a safe, protected environment with uncompensated volunteers, who are going to instruct them on (IMO) the most important facet of life (faith), we should be willing to pitch in a little.  And not just the registration fee, which, in most cases, would not come even close to covering what a daycare provider would charge.  For example: you leave your child(ren) 5 days of the VBS week, you pitch in 1 or 2 days of help.  You leave them for 2 days, you pitch in a day or a few hours.  Maybe you pitch in 10% of the time they're there.  The point is adding to the whole experience for others but still having quite a break for the norm as a mom.  

 

It really burned me when I volunteered at a VBS in the past that some moms would just breeze in, drop their kids off for the VBS day, and run off to indulge in their "me" time or whatever--like it was free babysitting.  There's nothing wrong with "me time" in my book but there was never any thought of pitching in on these folks' parts.  They didn't express any gratitude (not my motivation for volunteering).  The problem was they exuded the entitlement mentality.   I have no issue with people who would do this for part of the VBS and then pitch in for some time as well.  VBS could also be a true break for a family that is in dire straits of some sort.  But in my book, not having a latte in 6 months isn't "dire". LOL

 

Then there are those who jump from VBS to VBS throughout the summer with no intention of actually becoming part of any church community involved.  It's just free babysitting.  No consideration for the actual meaning of VBS, which is akin to a "school" for learning about the Bible or faith when a kid is on "Vacation" from normal "School".   Most VBSs are generally open to the neighborhood and I see the value of providing a great opportunity for children who would never have experienced something like it otherwise.  I didn't grow up in the church and really could have benefited from VBS--learned something my folks would never have taught me.  It's for these children many volunteers sacrifice and my issue isn't with the children who attend.  It's with the entitled parents who know better and can do better (not all parents are in this boat).  

 

I do know the "creepiness" of which some of you speak and I don't like churches like that either, but--seriously?  Don't go to a VBS if you don't have any intention of attending there.  That solves it and creates less of a "daycare" atmosphere for those trying to create something meaningful and instructional for the children involved.

 

Sorry for this rant.  I, like most parents, have a lot on my plate.  To sacrifice time in one area of life means another area of life is neglected.  To give my time to others = less time for my family or to recharge my batteries.  There's only so much to go around.  I wish more people in "our" generation (i.e., adults with kids) would just pitch in a bit more.  It would mean a richness for all of our children.  Perhaps much of this post is just me mentally preparing for the VBS I have committed to help with in a few weeks :001_rolleyes: ...as our own homeschool year is starting...  Perhaps I should not have committed myself to it since I seem to resent other people who don't pitch in but: my kids want to go, it's our faith community that we are a part of each-and-every week, and I think if all parents involved give just a little of themselves, it can be a smashing success in developing community between our younger people (those of the church and the surrounding neighborhoods).  

 

For the OP's case: have you considered dealing with your question by writing a thank you note to the church, expressing your thankfulness for the opportunity, sharing an example of what your daughter got out of it, and politely explaining that you are not considering attending services there?  It seems to me that would answer their valid question of whether or not you're interested in their community.

 

Just FWIW, for anybody reading along thinking that they've done something wrong for dropping off kids at nice churches' VBSes, our church does not see it this way at all. We have a large budget, and a large cadre of experienced volunteers, and we really do want you drop 'em off at 8 and pick 'em up at 11:30! Really! Even if you are using us for free daycare. Even if you attend church somewhere else. Even if you don't believe in God but you heard we do background checks so it seems like a safe and happy place so you'll try us.

 

Not that we are agenda-free. We hope to get two things out of this Six Flags Over Jesus VBS Palooza every year:

 

1. A chance for your child to have a good memory of a Christian church as a happy and positive place, and

2. if you like what your child has experienced and want to visit as a family some Sunday, we'd love to meet you then.

 

And that's the end of our expectations. 100%. If the budget ever shrinks or we have fewer volunteers, the number of children admitted will be reduced to fit our resources. So as long as registration is open, it's open, and the children are very welcome even if the parents are not church people and don't have any interest in helping.

 

Finally, I have not taught VBS for five years, nor Sunday school, either. I did both for a quarter of a century, in some cases teaching the same exact people who are parents of Sunday school students today, but I am on a break for a few years with NO guilt. Zero. I'm busy and tired, so I'm resting. When my youngest child (who got dropped off at VBS while I went to the library to read) starts high school I will teach again, and hopefully go for another quarter century.

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When I dropped my girls off at a VBS last weekend, it did not even occur to me to volunteer to help out in some way. In fact, if I found out that a church allowed random non-members to work as VBS volunteers, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking my kids there. I assume they've vetted their members who are working with kids, but they can't possibly do background checks on random non-members who happen to bring their kids. 

 

I volunteer for some things so that others can participate in them. I participate in some things without volunteering. Sometimes, I participate in something that I've done behind-the-scenes volunteer work for beforehand, but you wouldn't necessarily know I'd done that if you saw me participating. 

 

My own church does not do a VBS.

 

 

Answering the OP: I'd assume they were planning to visit you anyway and someone thought to bring along the crafts. Personally, I'd've appreciated a call first, both because my house is not always guest-ready and because I'd like the opportunity to say "actually, don't bring the crafts, because then I'll have to find somewhere to put them and we'll be stuck with them forever and we already have TOO MANY CRAFTY THINGS." Ahem. ;) But I'd err on the side of "nice" in my assumptions.

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I'm sure this isn't the reply you were looking for, and I don't want to provoke any bad feelings or shame here...But I do have to say something.  Would you (and possibly others who read this in the future) consider my view and experiences?  

 

<snip>

 

I'm not going to pile on here.  But, vonbon, I suggest (gently) that next year you just take a break from VBS.  'Cause you sound burned out.  I understand some of the frustration you're venting; I've felt it too and I didn't like it.  I don't believe people should only volunteer in areas where they feel particularly talented or "led;" sometimes we do things simply because they need to be done. But we should feel some joy and/or satisfaction from it.  VBS isn't necessary, and there is nothing wrong with taking a year (or more) off. 

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When I dropped my girls off at a VBS last weekend, it did not even occur to me to volunteer to help out in some way. In fact, if I found out that a church allowed random non-members to work as VBS volunteers, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking my kids there. I assume they've vetted their members who are working with kids, but they can't possibly do background checks on random non-members who happen to bring their kids. 

 

<snip>

 

This is an important point.  My church (which does not do VBS) would not and legally could not allow random people to volunteer.

 

Sometimes, though, people from the neighborhood who brought their kids but had no other connection with the church would ask if they could bring a treat for the volunteers one day.  Something like soft pretzels (very popular in our area) or ice cream treats. They would drop it off when picking up their kids, and it was for the workers who stayed behind to clean up after the kids left.  Let me tell you, that was much appreciated.    Yeah, volunteers aren't doing it to be thanked, but it sure can make people feel good when someone makes a point of thanking them. 

 

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I'm not going to pile on here. But, vonbon, I suggest (gently) that next year you just take a break from VBS. 'Cause you sound burned out. I understand some of the frustration you're venting; I've felt it too and I didn't like it. I don't believe people should only volunteer in areas where they feel particularly talented or "led;" sometimes we do things simply because they need to be done. But we should feel some joy and/or satisfaction from it. VBS isn't necessary, and there is nothing wrong with taking a year (or more) off.

I was the snack coordinator in our VBS for three years and finally had to drop it because I was seriously resentful. It's an extra three or four hours of prep each day outside of the VBS time itself and exhausting. After doing it at 36 weeks pregnant I was DONE. Being a floater or helping wth registration? Fine. But when all our VBS slots filled up with only church children and 3/4 of the parents did nothing but drop the kids off - we are talking not even donating supplies - the resentment was just too much and it completely clouded out any benefit of my serving. If you can't do it with a joyful heart it's not right for you at the moment.

 

There is a separate discussion to be had on whether VBS is at all useful for its intended purpose, especially when 95% of the kids at ours already attend weekly services, but when I found myself being more mad than happy about helping with it I stepped back. It was an excellent choice!

Edited by Arctic Mama
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I think it's ok, but I would feel a bit wary too. I don't like it when people show up to my house, I would have preferred a quick call first. If they just dropped it off with niceties as opposed to expecting to be invited in, then that makes me more comfortable.

 

When my daughter was a newborn I had the new minister of our old church just show up at my house. We had moved only a couple of weeks before hand too. I didn't know him from Adam, was tired and in my PJs as a first time mum of a tiny baby. He showed up, without calling first, mid morning when dh was at work. There was no way he knew none of this, my in-laws were deacons and DD was the first baby born in about 5 years... I was thoroughly unimpressed and sent him packing. I found it really inappropriate.

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  Then the other side of me thinks that it was really, really overstepping boundaries to show up at someones home. 

 

What do you think?

 

It would not occur to me to bring up "overstepping boundaries" in my head. What kind of boundaries?? Did they walk right in and take off their shoes and sit down? Did they invite themselves to dinner? Did they ask for all your children's names and dates of birth and your wedding anniversary? No? then they were just nice people from the church, dropping of some crafty things for a child who had visited VBS and didn't get to go for the whole week.

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WE do VBS at my church.  WE can't accept volunteers off the street because all volunteers need to attend a child safety seminar and be checked.  I did VBS for many years. I think returning the crafts was nice.

 

My kids attended VBS over the years.  Three times over all those years did they attend a VBS at a different church.  One year it was because we were out of town at the time of our own VBS,  One time it was because the church where we had our homeschool co-op was inviting us (and I did volunteer there too).  And the third time was when we moved back to the US and were looking for a church.  My youngest did two VBS that year.  We actually ended up in another church altogether and then worked on their VBS subsequent years.  My church in the Northern VA area had no VBS.   

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She seemed to say that if you are using VBS, you need to volunteer. she even gave a suggested amount of time, based on how long your child is in VBS, and said paying for it isn't enough. Seemed pretty clear.

I heard something very different. I heard, "Please don't think invested vbs people are creepy because some of us pour a lot of time, money, energy and commitment into the ministry. It's an outreach, so if you don't want to be reached, please reconsider participating. We love what we do, but to be considered creepy or to be used (for other than outreach purposes) is hurtful." That's what I heard.

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I think they understand children. : )  I still remember the few times I was unable to retrieve the things I made as a child.  It hurt.  Better be safe than sorry and return even things that don't look valuable to adult eyes.  And of course, at the same time, they would make sure this new family that just used their services knew about the other things they offer.

 

Nan 

 

EEp. and now I feel guiilty for throwing away the left behind crafts of my preK'ers last night.  VBS was over. I just wanted to get it cleaned up and go home!

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EEp. and now I feel guiilty for throwing away the left behind crafts of my preK'ers last night.  VBS was over. I just wanted to get it cleaned up and go home!

 

I read this wrong the first time and thought you had a Left Behind theme and was wondering what sort of crafts you were doing.  It took me a minute to figure out you meant crafts that had been left by the kids.  I think I need a nap.

 

To the OP, I would see it as no big deal, and on the thoughtful end.  When I was in eighth grade I went to my friend's confirmation at her church (Lutheran) and she had me fill out a visitor card.  A greeting committee showed up at our house, which was 20 miles away, on a school day to visit.  My mom was amused and a little surprised.

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I'm usually the first to say "overstepping," but in this case I can't see anything that was overstepping. I would expect the advertisements if I allowed my child to attend any sort of program at any place of worship. The crafts seem like a kind gesture - to bring by what she missed on Friday, I assume?

When DD was in pre-k, she was hospitalized for an illness. Her teacher brought her get-well cards by the house. It was very kind of her.

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I read this wrong the first time and thought you had a Left Behind theme and was wondering what sort of crafts you were doing.  It took me a minute to figure out you meant crafts that had been left by the kids.  I think I need a nap.

 

To the OP, I would see it as no big deal, and on the thoughtful end.  When I was in eighth grade I went to my friend's confirmation at her church (Lutheran) and she had me fill out a visitor card.  A greeting committee showed up at our house, which was 20 miles away, on a school day to visit.  My mom was amused and a little surprised.

 

Nope. We did Submerged too. Though our class didn't make periscopes. Lots of octopuses, fish, and sea turtles.

 

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Nope. We did Submerged too. Though our class didn't make periscopes. Lots of octopuses, fish, and sea turtles.

OT... but are y'all's kids still singing the theme song like mine? "Suuuuuuub-merged! Submerged!" LOL!Ă°Å¸ËœÅ“

 

(And FWIW, my kids did VBS at a church we don't attend, have no intention of attending, & I didn't volunteer.)

Edited by alisoncooks
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OT... but are y'all's kids still singing the theme song like mine? "Suuuuuuub-merged! Submerged!" LOL!Ă°Å¸ËœÅ“

 

(And FWIW, my kids did VBS at a church we don't attend, have no intention of attending, & I didn't volunteer.)

 

No. It's Been Bubblin' up around here.

 

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OT... but are y'all's kids still singing the theme song like mine? "Suuuuuuub-merged! Submerged!" LOL!Ă°Å¸ËœÅ“

 

(And FWIW, my kids did VBS at a church we don't attend, have no intention of attending, & I didn't volunteer.)

 

LOL, we did Cave Quest this year, but I feel you on the songs! For at least a week after camp ended I had the songs stuck in my head. (we got the CD to listen to in the car, which we did every day she was at VBS, sigh)

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I'm sure this isn't the reply you were looking for, and I don't want to provoke any bad feelings or shame here...But I do have to say something.  Would you (and possibly others who read this in the future) consider my view and experiences?  

 

I don't know you and I'm not assuming you fall in to one of the examples below, but I think this viewpoint adds a bit to the discussion, even if it's a bit off-topic: 

 

Most activities like VBS take an incredible amount of work if you really try to teach children well and in engaged ways.  As a mom of young kids, I've volunteered my time, energy, creativity, and money to help with the VBSs we've participated in.  VBS is not my natural calling so it's not like it's some sort of hobby for me.  

 

I've stretched and helped out because I believe, if, as parents, we're going to take advantage of an opportunity to leave our children in a safe, protected environment with uncompensated volunteers, who are going to instruct them on (IMO) the most important facet of life (faith), we should be willing to pitch in a little.  And not just the registration fee, which, in most cases, would not come even close to covering what a daycare provider would charge.  For example: you leave your child(ren) 5 days of the VBS week, you pitch in 1 or 2 days of help.  You leave them for 2 days, you pitch in a day or a few hours.  Maybe you pitch in 10% of the time they're there.  The point is adding to the whole experience for others but still having quite a break for the norm as a mom.  

 

It really burned me when I volunteered at a VBS in the past that some moms would just breeze in, drop their kids off for the VBS day, and run off to indulge in their "me" time or whatever--like it was free babysitting.  There's nothing wrong with "me time" in my book but there was never any thought of pitching in on these folks' parts.  They didn't express any gratitude (not my motivation for volunteering).  The problem was they exuded the entitlement mentality.   I have no issue with people who would do this for part of the VBS and then pitch in for some time as well.  VBS could also be a true break for a family that is in dire straits of some sort.  But in my book, not having a latte in 6 months isn't "dire". LOL

 

Then there are those who jump from VBS to VBS throughout the summer with no intention of actually becoming part of any church community involved.  It's just free babysitting.  No consideration for the actual meaning of VBS, which is akin to a "school" for learning about the Bible or faith when a kid is on "Vacation" from normal "School".   Most VBSs are generally open to the neighborhood and I see the value of providing a great opportunity for children who would never have experienced something like it otherwise.  I didn't grow up in the church and really could have benefited from VBS--learned something my folks would never have taught me.  It's for these children many volunteers sacrifice and my issue isn't with the children who attend.  It's with the entitled parents who know better and can do better (not all parents are in this boat).  

 

I do know the "creepiness" of which some of you speak and I don't like churches like that either, but--seriously?  Don't go to a VBS if you don't have any intention of attending there.  That solves it and creates less of a "daycare" atmosphere for those trying to create something meaningful and instructional for the children involved.

 

Sorry for this rant.  I, like most parents, have a lot on my plate.  To sacrifice time in one area of life means another area of life is neglected.  To give my time to others = less time for my family or to recharge my batteries.  There's only so much to go around.  I wish more people in "our" generation (i.e., adults with kids) would just pitch in a bit more.  It would mean a richness for all of our children.  Perhaps much of this post is just me mentally preparing for the VBS I have committed to help with in a few weeks :001_rolleyes: ...as our own homeschool year is starting...  Perhaps I should not have committed myself to it since I seem to resent other people who don't pitch in but: my kids want to go, it's our faith community that we are a part of each-and-every week, and I think if all parents involved give just a little of themselves, it can be a smashing success in developing community between our younger people (those of the church and the surrounding neighborhoods).  

 

For the OP's case: have you considered dealing with your question by writing a thank you note to the church, expressing your thankfulness for the opportunity, sharing an example of what your daughter got out of it, and politely explaining that you are not considering attending services there?  It seems to me that would answer their valid question of whether or not you're interested in their community.

 

 

I completely hear what you are saying.  I have volunteered at my children's schools so much, that I was offered jobs at 3 different schools. I know there are a few parents who seem to take advantage of the various systems in place and other parents who carry a vast amount of the load.  It is that way in these situations and everywhere in life.  There will always be takers and always be givers.  

 

 

I would like to point out something that you have no idea about, because I didn't put it in my post.  

 

I am a guardian to a special needs 9yo, who takes wayyyyyyyy more work than a typical kid.  Her psychiatrist, and behavior therapist, who specialize in kids who on the higher needs of mental health care, have both said that she is beyond the normal range of what is considered a 'difficult child.   She can't go to daycare without a personal assistant because of her issues.  I have to pay daycare AND a personal staff for her.  She needs the opportunity to be with normal kids otherwise she would just stay home with the private staff. My 21yo son is a youth pastor and is her personal staff.   She can't attend a regular school, even in a supported classroom, due to her behaviors. She has to attend a fully locked down school, that even the parents have to be buzzed into the front lobby. DD9 has been working really hard this summer on her behaviors and had earned the freedom to attend VBS, unassisted this year.  (VBS isn't stressfull, so it wouldn't set her off like a school environment). Unfortunately, our church is not offering VBS this year.   This particular church where she attended, is a church that has teemed up with our church on occasion. In fact, they just sent their kids to our churches High school summer camp....where my son volunteered as staff for 6 days of a 5 day camp.  While he was away,  I used a weeks vacation from work to cover his role with her. This week I am working and again taking next week off to cover for him being gone for a second week.  His two weeks vacation this year,  are both spent running summer camps, and my two weeks are filling in for him. 

 

This next week, he is the camp director AND head counselor at kids camp for grades 3-6.  Again, he will get gone 6 full days, and then come home to his normal duties on Sunday as well. He has been working on summer camp programming all summer long....unpaid, as a volunteer.  

 

During the normal week, he is a primary roll in Awanas, and the Wednesday Jr High youth program which is after AWANAS on Wednesday and runs in the summer as well..  On Sundays, he has been the head of the 3-6 age group for years. Aside from Awanas, he always writes his own material and spends 3-4 hours every Saturday working on Sunday programming.  He is at Every youth event for grades 3-Jr High.  He heads many of them.  He has spent countless hours writing material to lead main service when other pastors were on vacation. 

 

The person who was getting the break this week wasn't me sitting and sipping lattes.  It was my son, who was at home, working on the Kids Camp programming,  for the 6 hours she attended. Kids Camp is a  grades 3-6 kids summer sleep away camp, to which the same kids from both churches and the community are all invited to.  He doesn't just volunteer for VBS, his education (BA in Theology and Pastoral Ministry and 1/2 way on his MA in Pastoral Ministry) and passion is  being a youth pastor. 

 

 

I do not attend church on a regular basis.  I do know that our home church, nor the churches I attended growing up,  do not send people to random visitors homes.  They may call or mail invitations, but not in person.  That is why it seemed odd to me.  Just my own personal experiences.  That is why I asked.....and I found out that it is common and I was fine with that answer.  

 

What the sweet person who dropped off the invitation in person doesn't know, is that the invitation Set My Daughter OFF.   We hadn't prepared her for the extra invitation because we didn't know they would do that, and when I had to tell her we wouldn't be attending the new church on Sunday, she was Furious with me.  She is at her Bio-dads every Sunday 30 minutes away, without a car, and they don't attend church so it isn't even a possibility.  We had talked about it ahead of time about what they may say during VBS and that was clear to her, but due to her ASD, a knock and invitation at the door was different.  The nice person who knocked wouldn't have known it was going to cause a problem and when they left our house they saw a super excited, 9yo girl who wanted to attend their church.  It wasn't until I got home later and explained to her that we already have a home church, and that she isn't even around on Sundays to attend anyways, that I got to deal with the explosion. 

 

 

 

So yep, I get it.  I do understand that that 20% of the people do 90% of the work, but not all work is the same.  And we all have things that we put effort into.  I'm a foster parent and volunteer in schools.  DS is a youth pastor who easily puts in 40 hours a week most of the year for the youth in his church and other churches.  Your right, it isn't VBS, but if everyone tried to put in a small amount of effort everywhere, I really don't think those programs would benefit.  I think that a group of focused and experienced volunteers are much more useful.  Besides, as an experienced volunteer do you really want to add more on your plate, training a bunch of volunteers each year, who won't be back the next year, and may not even be Christians?  Do you want those potential strangers,  untrained, un-vetted volunteers saying who-knows-what to the kids at the VBS program? I wouldn't!

 

If you want your VBS to only be for people who want to volunteer at it, then maybe ask if you can start a CO-OP VBS instead of an outreach.  Or only offer it to the parents who have logged the prerequisite amount of hours in the church.  

 

To me VBS is an outreach. It isn't a tally sheet logging volunteer time for the adults.  It is a time for kids to have fun and realize that going to church and working on your faith can be done outside of Sunday services.  It is a time to give the kids a chance to focus on a bit of spiritual growth and a time to invite others along for the VBS too.  

 

I thought it was presumptuous for someone to show up on my doorstep, but now I know it is normal.  It just isn't what we are used to and next time, if she goes again, I will call ahead and explain that visits and invitations are best sent to us in the mail, so we can screen them for potential behavior triggers before she is aware of them. Of course said very kindly and nicely.  And only due to dd's special needs.

 

 

I just want to clarify that I am not taking your post personally, like I said, I understand it well.  But, I did want to clarify that just because you may see someone drop off a child at VBS and come back with a Latte stain on their shirt, it doesn't mean that they aren't heavily vested in raising a great village of  children, and that they aren't ardent volunteers.  They just may have a different calling that you do.  When you walk in to my child's school and are met with clean tables and nice, organized bulletin boards....that someone just spent 4 hours there getting 2 years worth of glue residue of the table, and hand cutting those 50 paper flowers and "Welcome Back" letters. Or when you child is in the youth program at church, remember that my son just spend 4 hours on Saturday night, working on that new material that engaged your child and played his heart out with the kids at AWANA games.  

Edited by Tap
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Nope. We did Submerged too. Though our class didn't make periscopes. Lots of octopuses, fish, and sea turtles.

LOL, It was Submerged!  The pipe cleaner craft was an octopus with one giant wiggle eye!  LOL  It is super cute BTW. 

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Um, so back from a long day of outdoor work and being out-of-town and I read through the thread. 

 

I'm sorry for being a judgy jerk this morning.  My venting was misplaced--wrong thread for these particular thoughts.  When I hit the "Post" button, a tiny thought came that maybe I should not have posted my response and should've just deleted it or started a s/o post about VBS.  I was rushing to get out the door and maybe next time I will stop and listen to the small thought and not post.  I hoped to add to the discussion and fear I've derailed it and hurt others.  

 

This makes me sad: 

All this judgement is one reason I rarely become involved in church activities.

If you met me IRL, I hope you would not feel judged by me.  I am often loving, warm, accepting, encouraging.  Sometimes I bottle up my frustrations about ministry and people stuff and today I let it out here on the internet.  I have felt a lot of judgment via church activities, so I am sad that I was the person who perpetuated that today.  I'm sorry and I hope you don't allow my comments about VBS to turn you away from volunteering at a/your/any church.  I didn't realize I was being judgmental and don't really think of myself that way so...it is both hard and good to see what you wrote.  I need to evaluate and change my heart.  

 

Amazingly, one person heard what I was trying to say.  I guess I can also work on writing more clearly, LOL.  

I heard something very different. I heard, "Please don't think invested vbs people are creepy because some of us pour a lot of time, money, energy and commitment into the ministry. It's an outreach, so if you don't want to be reached, please reconsider participating. We love what we do, but to be considered creepy or to be used (for other than outreach purposes) is hurtful." That's what I heard.

I was pretty naive with the first few VBSs I helped with.  I went in with good will and thought other parents were going to pitch in too to make it this awesome thing for all children and adults involved.  I'm an idealist.  It ended up being a very small group that ran around to stressfully cover bases while the majority of parents truly did not seem to consider pitching in.  Many refused to help, even when they were asked to cover fairly minor parts or assisting roles.  At the time, I had a nursing baby and a toddler who was not old enough to participate, so that just added to the stress.  I probably should not have helped with that ministry at the time, in hindsight.  

 

IME, many parents treated the VBSs like a daycare.  The rates charged didn't come close to covering the costs of supplies or curriculum purchased.  That was "subsidized" by the church from tithes, so, again, a small percentage of people sacrificing for the larger good.  I'm cool with that to an extent, but maybe I have set poor boundaries and have let resentment set in--given too much away to an unhealthy point for myself and my family.  

 

My thoughts were along these lines and you are wise: 

But when all our VBS slots filled up with only church children and 3/4 of the parents did nothing but drop the kids off - we are talking not even donating supplies - the resentment was just too much and it completely clouded out any benefit of my serving. If you can't do it with a joyful heart it's not right for you at the moment.

when I found myself being more mad than happy about helping with it I stepped back. It was an excellent choice!

I have served in other ministries that I'm much better-suited for and loved them.  I showed up "rain or shine" and never experienced resentment because I was so happy to give what was helpful and needed.  It was a joy--no matter what other people did or didn't do.  Obviously, I cannot currently offer what is good and right for VBS right now. 

 

I suggest (gently) that next year you just take a break from VBS.  'Cause you sound burned out.  I understand some of the frustration you're venting; I've felt it too and I didn't like it.  I don't believe people should only volunteer in areas where they feel particularly talented or "led;" sometimes we do things simply because they need to be done. But we should feel some joy and/or satisfaction from it.  VBS isn't necessary, and there is nothing wrong with taking a year (or more) off. 

I talked to my DH about this thread as we were driving today.  He said the real issue is I've never been called to do VBS.  He pretty strongly-but somewhat-jokingly said he's forbidding me from doing it  after this year and he's right.  But I'm not sure I can say no when asked to help because I do want my children to participate.  Feel like I should be willing to pitch in because I can and am able.  I'm very torn about this, especially as--in the churches we've been in anyway--there never seem to be enough volunteers willing to carry out children's ministries. 
 
I would like to respond to and clarify thoughts on another post on the 1st page--
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She seemed to say that if you are using VBS, you need to volunteer. she even gave a suggested amount of time, based on how long your child is in VBS, and said paying for it isn't enough. Seemed pretty clear. 

 

That's not entirely what I was trying to say.  I was just writing about how I think of giving time, talent, treasure: giving some amount of time or help--and arriving at an amount that is do-able for any given person/family/situation.  I was stating options, ideas.  As in, 10% is very small (but, no, not do-able for all people).  I can think of many examples in which VBS could be a valuable ministry to many who cannot volunteer or who would choose not to volunteer: 

 

- single parents with little to no support who could really use a break

- the family whose child/sibling has dealt with severe illness for several years and is worn thin with appointments/stress

- a mom whose husband travels a lot

- someone who's moved to an area and wants to check a church out without committing

- parents of newborns or young children who can't attend 

...OK, I'm going to stop here but the list could go on and on

 

And sometimes I fit in to some of those categories and, as I wrote before, I am torn about helping out.  It's not convenient, I'm maxed out, and I don't want to do it, but if I'm not willing to pitch in with my kids' activities, should I expect others to?  (Not being provocative here; I am truly trying to figure this out in this stage of life.)

 

ktgrok, I've particularly gotten a lot out of many posts you've written on religion here on the WTM, so I am sorry that I wrote anything that would make you feel put down or accused.  That was not my intention but I can see how you would take what I wrote that way.  I was not gracious or considering others' lots at the time.

 

I need to consider my words more carefully next time and possibly not hit "Post" on something I'm particularly fired up about.  

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I completely hear what you are saying.  I have volunteered at my children's schools so much, that I was offered jobs at 3 different schools. I know there are a few parents who seem to take advantage of the various systems in place and other parents who carry a vast amount of the load.  It is that way in these situations and everywhere in life.  There will always be takers and always be givers.  

 

 

I would like to point out something that you have no idea about, because I didn't put it in my post.  

 

I am a guardian to a special needs 9yo, who takes wayyyyyyyy more work than a typical kid.  Her psychiatrist, and behavior therapist, who specialize in kids who on the higher needs of mental health care, have both said that she is beyond the normal range of what is considered a 'difficult child.   She can't go to daycare without a personal assistant because of her issues.  I have to pay daycare AND a personal staff for her.  She needs the opportunity to be with normal kids otherwise she would just stay home with the private staff. My 21yo son is a youth pastor and is her personal staff.   She can't attend a regular school, even in a supported classroom, due to her behaviors. She has to attend a fully locked down school, that even the parents have to be buzzed into the front lobby. DD9 has been working really hard this summer on her behaviors and had earned the freedom to attend VBS, unassisted this year.  (VBS isn't stressfull, so it wouldn't set her off like a school environment). Unfortunately, our church is not offering VBS this year.   This particular church where she attended, is a church that has teemed up with our church on occasion. In fact, they just sent their kids to our churches High school summer camp....where my son volunteered as staff for 6 days of a 5 day camp.  While he was away,  I used a weeks vacation from work to cover his role with her. This week I am working and again taking next week off to cover for him being gone for a second week.  His two weeks vacation this year,  are both spent running summer camps, and my two weeks are filling in for him. 

 

This next week, he is the camp director AND head counselor at kids camp for grades 3-6.  Again, he will get gone 6 full days, and then come home to his normal duties on Sunday as well. He has been working on summer camp programming all summer long....unpaid, as a volunteer.  

 

During the normal week, he is a primary roll in Awanas, and the Wednesday Jr High youth program which is after AWANAS on Wednesday and runs in the summer as well..  On Sundays, he has been the head of the 3-6 age group for years. Aside from Awanas, he always writes his own material and spends 3-4 hours every Saturday working on Sunday programming.  He is at Every youth event for grades 3-Jr High.  He heads many of them.  He has spent countless hours writing material to lead main service when other pastors were on vacation. 

 

The person who was getting the break this week wasn't me sitting and sipping lattes.  It was my son, who was at home, working on the Kids Camp programming,  for the 6 hours she attended. Kids Camp is a  grades 3-6 kids summer sleep away camp, to which the same kids from both churches and the community are all invited to.  He doesn't just volunteer for VBS, his education (BA in Theology and Pastoral Ministry and 1/2 way on his MA in Pastoral Ministry) and passion is  being a youth pastor. 

 

 

I do not attend church on a regular basis.  I do know that our home church, nor the churches I attended growing up,  do not send people to random visitors homes.  They may call or mail invitations, but not in person.  That is why it seemed odd to me.  Just my own personal experiences.  That is why I asked.....and I found out that it is common and I was fine with that answer.  

 

What the sweet person who dropped off the invitation in person doesn't know, is that the invitation Set My Daughter OFF.   We hadn't prepared her for the extra invitation because we didn't know they would do that, and when I had to tell her we wouldn't be attending the new church on Sunday, she was Furious with me.  She is at her Bio-dads every Sunday 30 minutes away, without a car, and they don't attend church so it isn't even a possibility.  We had talked about it ahead of time about what they may say during VBS and that was clear to her, but due to her ASD, a knock and invitation at the door was different.  The nice person who knocked wouldn't have known it was going to cause a problem and when they left our house they saw a super excited, 9yo girl who wanted to attend their church.  It wasn't until I got home later and explained to her that we already have a home church, and that she isn't even around on Sundays to attend anyways, that I got to deal with the explosion. 

 

 

 

So yep, I get it.  I do understand that that 20% of the people do 90% of the work, but not all work is the same.  And we all have things that we put effort into.  I'm a foster parent and volunteer in schools.  DS is a youth pastor who easily puts in 40 hours a week most of the year for the youth in his church and other churches.  Your right, it isn't VBS, but if everyone tried to put in a small amount of effort everywhere, I really don't think those programs would benefit.  I think that a group of focused and experienced volunteers are much more useful.  Besides, as an experienced volunteer do you really want to add more on your plate, training a bunch of volunteers each year, who won't be back the next year, and may not even be Christians?  Do you want those potential strangers,  untrained, un-vetted volunteers saying who-knows-what to the kids at the VBS program? I wouldn't!

 

If you want your VBS to only be for people who want to volunteer at it, then maybe ask if you can start a CO-OP VBS instead of an outreach.  Or only offer it to the parents who have logged the prerequisite amount of hours in the church.  

 

To me VBS is an outreach. It isn't a tally sheet logging volunteer time for the adults.  It is a time for kids to have fun and realize that going to church and working on your faith can be done outside of Sunday services.  It is a time to give the kids a chance to focus on a bit of spiritual growth and a time to invite others along for the VBS too.  

 

I thought it was presumptuous for someone to show up on my doorstep, but now I know it is normal.  It just isn't what we are used to and next time, if she goes again, I will call ahead and explain that visits and invitations are best sent to us in the mail, so we can screen them for potential behavior triggers before she is aware of them. Of course said very kindly and nicely.  And only due to dd's special needs.

 

 

I just want to clarify that I am not taking your post personally, like I said, I understand it well.  But, I did want to clarify that just because you may see someone drop off a child at VBS and come back with a Latte stain on their shirt, it doesn't mean that they aren't heavily vested in raising a great village of  children, and that they aren't ardent volunteers.  They just may have a different calling that you do.  When you walk in to my child's school and are met with clean tables and nice, organized bulletin boards....that someone just spent 4 hours there getting 2 years worth of glue residue of the table, and hand cutting those 50 paper flowers and "Welcome Back" letters. Or when you child is in the youth program at church, remember that my son just spend 4 hours on Saturday night, working on that new material that engaged your child and played his heart out with the kids at AWANA games.  

 

Tap, I am going to have to re-read this tomorrow.  Thank you for sharing about your life because it's given me a lot to think about.  I think I'll go cry now.  

 

I assumed a lot of things about your post.  Bad, bad to assume.  

 

I didn't understand why a parent would leave a child with higher needs at an unknown church for 2 days of VBS and then be frustrated someone stopped by with a craft.  I thought you entrusted them with your child (one of our most precious gifts ever) but then did not want to encounter them later in life on your doorstep and that made me upset.  I made assumptions about you.

 

And now I get it.  

 

And I've experienced the creepy stalker-type pastor on our doorstep as well, so I got your question from that angle.  

 

I think you might be opening a door for me to change my relationship with others at church.  Thank you.  I'm sorry for making assumptions about you.

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That's not entirely what I was trying to say. I was just writing about how I think of giving time, talent, treasure: giving some amount of time or help--and arriving at an amount that is do-able for any given person/family/situation. I was stating options, ideas. As in, 10% is very small (but, no, not do-able for all people). I can think of many examples in which VBS could be a valuable ministry to many who cannot volunteer or who would choose not to volunteer:

 

- single parents with little to no support who could really use a break

- the family whose child/sibling has dealt with severe illness for several years and is worn thin with appointments/stress

- a mom whose husband travels a lot

- someone who's moved to an area and wants to check a church out without committing

- parents of newborns or young children who can't attend

...OK, I'm going to stop here but the list could go on and on

 

And sometimes I fit in to some of those categories and, as I wrote before, I am torn about helping out. It's not convenient, I'm maxed out, and I don't want to do it, but if I'm not willing to pitch in with my kids' activities, should I expect others to? (Not being provocative here; I am truly trying to figure this out in this stage of life.)

 

ktgrok, I've particularly gotten a lot out of many posts you've written on religion here on the WTM, so I am sorry that I wrote anything that would make you feel put down or accused. That was not my intention but I can see how you would take what I wrote that way. I was not gracious or considering others' lots at the time.

 

I need to consider my words more carefully next time and possibly not hit "Post" on something I'm particularly fired up about.

A million hugs for coming back to this post without anger! I'll admit your first post had me plenty fired up and angry. You are now my Hero of the Day. Ă°Å¸â€˜Ă°Å¸Â»

 

Yes, I DO think you could expect people to help or volunteer for what you are unable order unwilling to do. Not everyone has the same gift or calling. I know people with awesome decorating skills who should never be allowed in the kitchen. And fabulous cooks who should stay far away from children. I should never be allowed near a microphone except as a sound tech. I also love all children individually as beloved creations of a Loving God, but absolutely do not do well with groups of them.

 

If you expect everyone to volunteer or serve in every area that they use or benefit from, NOBODY could possibly do that, even if they were qualified. Not even the paid pastors work in every area of the church!

 

Personally, the LAST person (besides those who couldn't or shouldn't pass a background check) that I would want working with my children is one who is bitter about it. If a few people in the community use VBS as free day care, so be it. Isn't it said "Suffer the little children to come to me"? I dont recall reading that WE must suffer for them to do so, LOL!

 

Try thinking of it in really broad terms or other situations. I am NOT willing to clean public restrooms, volunteer or paid, but I expect clean restrooms when I'm out.

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Too complicated to quote from this device but in regards to parents being expected to help:

 

They offered babysitting to volunteers at our VBS but I had dh take time off work so he could watch dd. I was glad because the babysitting was handled by just one young girl (Middle school or possibly high school age. And dd is one handful!). Ds attended and I volunteered but I felt no sense of, "man, these other parents need to volunteer if they bring their kids." Umm hello, many have work and the grandma drops the kids off or they have siblings too young for VBS or whatever. I don't care. Maybe they have social anxiety. Not my place to judge. Please offer some grace. The first summer I tried to send ds to one I was informed last min. that I did not qualify to volunteer because I needed to take a Protection of Children class. There was no time so we opted not to attend. I know not every parent has taken the class so not every parent qualifies to be involved.

 

Creepy does not have to mean you felt danger like being robbed. It could be more like ugh I did not want company. Half my family wears pjs or goes pantless when there is no where to go. It is just reality. Or ugh are they gonna try to talk me into going to their church.

 

People coming to my door from a church I have attended is not part of my average experience. Yes, after dd was born but that is about it. So it would be out of the norm for me and feel like I was being smothered briefly. Still could dismiss as nice intentions.

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Probably should have read more before I posted. Thank you for clarifying/following up, vonbon.

 

Maybe you should take your spouse's advice to take a break. If they ask you to help set up an excuse or come up with a response in advance? I get feeling obligated given that they need help but sounds like others could step up.

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Probably should have read more before I posted. Thank you for clarifying/following up, vonbon.

 

Maybe you should take your spouse's advice to take a break. If they ask you to help set up an excuse or come up with a response in advance? I get feeling obligated given that they need help but sounds like others could step up.

 

The first time I decided not to help with VBS I just said "no, sorry, can't do it this year."  Only one person pressed me, but I just said the same thing.    There is no need to have an excuse or reason.   If someone felt compelled to say something more, I'd go with "I've been doing VBS for x years; it's time to give someone else an opportunity to serve."   But that is the most I would say.  It's OK to just not be available for something.

 

It's OK for a church to skip VBS because they don't have enough volunteers.  It's a bummer if it's a big outreach for the community, that's true.  But people leave churches when they get burned out by too many "volunteer" requirements.  And then there are no people to do outreach anyway. 

 

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Just FWIW, for anybody reading along thinking that they've done something wrong for dropping off kids at nice churches' VBSes, our church does not see it this way at all. We have a large budget, and a large cadre of experienced volunteers, and we really do want you drop 'em off at 8 and pick 'em up at 11:30! Really! Even if you are using us for free daycare. Even if you attend church somewhere else. Even if you don't believe in God but you heard we do background checks so it seems like a safe and happy place so you'll try us.

 

Not that we are agenda-free. We hope to get two things out of this Six Flags Over Jesus VBS Palooza every year:

 

1. A chance for your child to have a good memory of a Christian church as a happy and positive place, and

2. if you like what your child has experienced and want to visit as a family some Sunday, we'd love to meet you then.

 

And that's the end of our expectations. 100%. If the budget ever shrinks or we have fewer volunteers, the number of children admitted will be reduced to fit our resources. So as long as registration is open, it's open, and the children are very welcome even if the parents are not church people and don't have any interest in helping.

 

Finally, I have not taught VBS for five years, nor Sunday school, either. I did both for a quarter of a century, in some cases teaching the same exact people who are parents of Sunday school students today, but I am on a break for a few years with NO guilt. Zero. I'm busy and tired, so I'm resting. When my youngest child (who got dropped off at VBS while I went to the library to read) starts high school I will teach again, and hopefully go for another quarter century.

 

Yes, I tend to take it at face value when kids are invited to events at churches, and I don't like to have to second-guess the motivation.  I'm an involved member of my own church, and that's where I place most of my energy.  My kids have on occasion attended kids events in other places - in my cousin's Catholic parish (I'm not Catholic,) and pretty regularly in the Baptist church around the corner from our house.  Since our own church isn't in our neighbourhood, it' nice for them to be involved with other kids in our own neighbourhood.  I really hope the church members there see that work they do as a ministry, just as mine see their community outreach work as a ministry, that is directed to the community, rather than some kind of marketing tool.

 

 

That being said, I do sometimes feel a bit frustrated with parents who do want their kids to have some sort of Christian life and education, but seem to feel that other people should provide all that is required for this to happen while the parents don't really have anything to do with the community at all.  It feels a bit that they don't realize that the existence of a community depends on people actually participating in some way, even if it is only by Sunday attendance.

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First of all, I want to agree with the majority of responses that this was clearly intended as a kind gesture with evangelistic undertones because, after all, that's supposed to be one of the purposes of a church. Our church has a space on the VBS registration form to ask if the family has a church home. If the parents say they do, then the kids wouldn't be encouraged to come back, though it's always mentioned at VBS that we have Sunday and Wednesday classes for children during the school year.

 

Second of all, I'm really sorry to hear that the kindly intended gesture ended up playing out negatively for the OP. Perhaps that can make those involved in churches likely to do this to think that it might be best to contact the parents first to make sure the visit and invitation are okay.

 

Thirdly, to Vonbon and anyone else who volunteers for VBS but doesn't really like it, I say, don't volunteer and don't feel guilty. I was a resentful VBS volunteer for years. Finally this year I told the VBS director, who is also a friend, that I don't really enjoy volunteering for VBS. She responded, "Well, then, by all means, don't volunteer this year. I don't want to pressure people."  So this year I didn't volunteer. I volunteer a lot at children's ministry things the rest of the year and really enjoy it, but VBS just isn't my thing. I've started threads about this in the past. It felt great to just send the kids off with DH (who volunteers every year and loves it) every evening. I did actually end up helping the last evening. I had to bring the kids due to coming straight from DS' Ultimate Frisbee practice and stopped by to say hi to DH. It turned out his helper hadn't been able to come that evening, so I stepped in as his helper and enjoyed it.

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ktgrok, I've particularly gotten a lot out of many posts you've written on religion here on the WTM, so I am sorry that I wrote anything that would make you feel put down or accused.  That was not my intention but I can see how you would take what I wrote that way.  I was not gracious or considering others' lots at the time.

 

I need to consider my words more carefully next time and possibly not hit "Post" on something I'm particularly fired up about.  

 

Hugs, it's all good. You sound very frustrated and burnt out. And maybe, honestly, this is more of a structural problem with your church's VBS, than a problem on an individual level? Like I said, I didn't volunteer, because there are no arrangements made for parents who have young kids, and our VBS is for rising kindergarteners and up. But, we have fees that are higher than a lot of other churches. We use snacks that are prepackaged, and not fancy (individual bags of goldfish crackers, etc) so no one is prepping them. We have the high school and middle school youth groups volunteer as "crew leaders" so each classroom has one adult and two youth volunteers (who have WAY more energy, lol). And it is run by our main Faith Formation person who has a paid position. It is set up like a machine! It is also done at the church school, which means regular classrooms, a designated car line, etc which streamlines things a bit. As I was in the car line to pick up I saw how hot is was and was thinking I should bring cold drinks next time for the volunteers, and then saw a man (one of the volunteers) start handing them out to all the volunteers from a cooler. They'd already thought of it, and had icy bottles of water for everyone. I'm not saying volunteering wasn't hard...those people worked hard. But they had an adequate number of people for the size of the program, it was well organized, and there was budget for things like drinks for staff, easy to pass out snacks, even pre-packaged craft kits, etc. Because of all that, and knowing my weekly offering and my registration fee paid for those things, I felt okay not volunteering. Had there been a lack of staff and money I'd probably feel differently. 

 

And someday, I'll probably volunteer, but realistically not until the baby in my womb is old enough to go, which is a long time from now, again due to childcare issues. But between now and then I may volunteer in RCIA, or youth ministry, or a dozen other things. It all works out. 

 

But either way, no harm done. We all have those days on the internet, trust me. 

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I think if you can return someone's lost or forgotten items, you should. They did the right thing and it seems it was close and convenient to do so. If it was easy for me to give someone their stuff, I wouldn't try to place a value on it. I'd just return their things. It's not remotely weird or overstepping.

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I think if you can return someone's lost or forgotten items, you should. They did the right thing and it seems it was close and convenient to do so. If it was easy for me to give someone their stuff, I wouldn't try to place a value on it. I'd just return their things. It's not remotely weird or overstepping.

 

As mentioned up thread, maybe what they should have done is call ahead. Calling ahead before you pop by is appreciated by a lot of people. Especially moms of sleeping babies with loud dogs LOL (not in that camp, but just imagining).

 

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As mentioned up thread, maybe what they should have done is call ahead. Calling ahead before you pop by is appreciated by a lot of people. Especially moms of sleeping babies with loud dogs LOL (not in that camp, but just imagining).

 

I see your point, but that also adds more layers of inconvenience/imposition. I imagine they were driving by and if nobody was home they would've hung the bag on the doorknob or something.

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I see your point, but that also adds more layers of inconvenience/imposition. I imagine they were driving by and if nobody was home they would've hung the bag on the doorknob or something.

 

Yeah, I'm not big on drop in guests who have an expectation of coming in and sitting down.  Sometimes, like this morning, I would have to move a pile of clean towels off the couch.  But in this situation, there is no obligation or expectation to invite the person in.  Just stand by the door, say thanks, end of visit.  If I don't want someone to come in, I don't invite them in.  I've even done that with friends who've stopped by - oh, hey, thanks for dropping that off, sorry I can't invite you in, we're... [trail off, no need to explain].  People get the message and go, perhaps relieved that they don't have to hang around.

 

When we had our crazy barking dog, I would step out onto the front stoop and shut the door to talk to someone.  That also helped keep the visit short. :-)

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Just FWIW, for anybody reading along thinking that they've done something wrong for dropping off kids at nice churches' VBSes, our church does not see it this way at all. We have a large budget, and a large cadre of experienced volunteers, and we really do want you drop 'em off at 8 and pick 'em up at 11:30! Really! Even if you are using us for free daycare. Even if you attend church somewhere else. Even if you don't believe in God but you heard we do background checks so it seems like a safe and happy place so you'll try us.

 

Not that we are agenda-free. We hope to get two things out of this Six Flags Over Jesus VBS Palooza every year:

 

1. A chance for your child to have a good memory of a Christian church as a happy and positive place, and

2. if you like what your child has experienced and want to visit as a family some Sunday, we'd love to meet you then.

 

This is our church too.

 

And I have never volunteered for any children's event given at a church, even though my kids attended quite a few.

 

Trust me... you don't want me working with young kids, esp those who aren't my own.  I didn't inherit many "girl" genes and I didn't inherit many "mom" genes.  No, I don't want to hold your baby TBH.  Even with subbing, I have 100% refused any elementary school job and now, don't even do middle school.

 

My talent is with teaching teens->adults and I can often assist with some set up and take down as long as it's not the least bit crafty or art related.  Period.  No apologies.

 

I don't even teach teens at church now though.  We stopped when my own kids became teens.  I didn't want them to be the teens who couldn't be themselves because mom and/or dad was there.  No regrets on that either.  We haven't gone back to working with teens at church and I'm not sure if we will or not.  My youngest has stepped in though... and loves it.

 

It all works best when we do what God calls us to do IMO - not what we feel guilted into doing.

 

For the OP... it's definitely a nice gesture.  We've had people drop things off at our house simply because we lost them or left them somewhere and they either knew where we lived or there was an address inside - no church involvement at all - things like soccer practice or being at a park.  It's things like that that help me retain hope in humanity TBH - people watching out for and caring about each other.

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I've directed our church's VBS for three years now. We are a small church with a lot of very old people, but they all love VBS. Only about 20% of the kids who come attend our church. As was previously posted, we are happy that people just drop their kids off. We look at VBS as our gift to the community. Kids are bored, parents struggle with finding daycare. The community is a small town and low income. We have no expectations from the people who bring their kids. We just want to offer a fun week of VBS, tell kids about Jesus, have them meet new friends... It's always a good time. In fact, one 6th grade boy said to me as he came in to the closing assembly, "this is a lot more fun than I thought it would be ." Not all churches have the same philosophy. In fact the lady that ran VBS before me was a little resentful that our VBS was being used as "free daycare" and wanted to charge. That didn't happen, fortunately.

 

We had a lot more kids this year than we prepared for (we prepared for 48 and averaged 60), but we prayed about it and God provided the resources (both human and otherwise) and we had a wonderful and successful VBS.

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Yeah, I'm not big on drop in guests who have an expectation of coming in and sitting down.  Sometimes, like this morning, I would have to move a pile of clean towels off the couch.  But in this situation, there is no obligation or expectation to invite the person in.  Just stand by the door, say thanks, end of visit.  If I don't want someone to come in, I don't invite them in.  I've even done that with friends who've stopped by - oh, hey, thanks for dropping that off, sorry I can't invite you in, we're... [trail off, no need to explain].  People get the message and go, perhaps relieved that they don't have to hang around.

 

When we had our crazy barking dog, I would step out onto the front stoop and shut the door to talk to someone.  That also helped keep the visit short. :-)

 

Just because they don't invite themselves in doesn't mean you want to open the door to someone. You might be in a bathrobe, might be sick, the doorbell might wake up the baby so stepping out on the porch is going to address that, etc.

 

We live by a college campus. I can't tell you how many times I was not ready for visitors and someone came to my door with little to no warning. I had just been doing a Kinect workout and dh thought it would be fine to send a student over to our house to borrow one of his ties Lol. Gee, thanks. So what if he didn't come inside, it was still bothersome to me. Not even upset with the student, just embarrassed. (And yes, of course I talked to dh about it).

 

I'm going to fully admit I don't like drop ins. But I think for me it's because I can't keep my house clean and the way my layout is, you can see a lot when you open the door. Some people have an entry way, I do not.

Edited by heartlikealion
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Just because they don't invite themselves in doesn't mean you want to open the door to someone. You might be in a bathrobe, might be sick, the doorbell might wake up the baby so stepping out on the porch is going to address that, etc.

 

You know you don't have to answer the door, even if someone rings the bell, knocks, or w/e, right? I routinely ignore people knocking on the door, just like I regularly don't answer my phone.

 

ETA: a phone ringing would wake a baby just as easily (or easier) than a knock on the door.

Edited by luuknam
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Okay, I am skipping a lot, but when you say you have a special needs child an explain the situation, it pushes me way, way over into thinking it was a very nice gesture for the person to drop the craft over and potentially share a kind word with your son.

 

I think that is a nice thing to do. It is like -- reaching out to someone you think may be isolated and who may not always have the chance to hear someone say "we were glad she could come to VBS, we would love to see her again."

 

It is nice, it is a compliment.

 

If you sent her to a church that is like your sister church in some ways, not a random church, then don't you have an impression of them that is basically a good impression? Isn't that how churches do things like send the teens to the high school camp?

 

But really ----- it just pushes me to think, someone was being nice.

 

If that is overstepping boundaries to you, I think you may be too used to getting negative reactions in public. Now she is doing better and she is getting a positive reaction this time.

 

It is a very strange feeling I think!

 

But really, I don't know what you expect when you take a child to a church event and it sounds like your son is known to the people at the church..... Maybe high school kids were volunteering and knew who your family was from your son.

 

If your own son did this as a kind gesture from a youth pastor, would you think it was so weird and crossing boundaries?

 

It is all just stuff that seems nice to me, and also you do not sound like you are anonymous in this church, to be honest.

 

Maybe you are feeling like "they know who we are and I thought we were anonymous." And that I think is also a strange feeling, but it may just be hey, you are not as anonymous as you thought, there it is.

 

So I can see you not liking it or not welcoming it, totally. But I think that is on your side and very fair for you to feel that way.

 

But from an outside perspective, I don't think it is crossing a boundary to drop off the craft at your house, and even less with the additional information.

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<snip>

 

We live by a college campus. I can't tell you how many times I was not ready for visitors and someone came to my door with little to no warning. I had just been doing a Kinect workout and dh thought it would be fine to send a student over to our house to borrow one of his ties Lol. Gee, thanks. So what if he didn't come inside, it was still bothersome to me. Not even upset with the student, just embarrassed. (And yes, of course I talked to dh about it).

 

<snip>

 

Now that would bother me!  But if my husband called/texted to say "student is on the way over, please give him the red/blue striped tie" the tie would be hanging over the doorknob when he arrived.  And I'd suggest my husband keep a stash of spares in his office.   :-)  

 

But yeah, if I'm not expecting anyone, I don't always answer the door.   And, if I do, I don't care what they can see of my house if they look in.  

 

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Really, I have a child with ASD too, and yes sometimes he is set off by innocent things.

 

Well, I would rather people still make an effort, even when it is frustrating and it backfires.

 

I also wonder if there is something you can say yes to, that might be something that is an option. I know, in the moment it doesn't work, but maybe at some point.

 

I did not read correctly and then re-read, and still, I am really sorry it worked out that way, but I don't think it is crossing a boundary. I think it is an acceptable thing to do and not crossing a boundary, it just worked out really poorly for you.

 

But I am more alienated by people who are scared to do anything or come near us bc they are so worried about upsetting my son.

 

I would rather people took the chance and the risk, on the chance that it would go well.

 

But that is with my situation and it does go well for us a lot when people are willing to reach out.

 

So to me, I do value that and it means a lot to me when people do it.

 

But I am sorry it set your daughter off, I am so sorry.

Edited by Lecka
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You know you don't have to answer the door, even if someone rings the bell, knocks, or w/e, right? I routinely ignore people knocking on the door, just like I regularly don't answer my phone.

 

ETA: a phone ringing would wake a baby just as easily (or easier) than a knock on the door.

 

Sometimes I ignore the door when UPS comes, but then I feel guilty. They end up lugging my packages into our carport or sometimes even leaving a note sorry we missed you. I have hollered before, "can't come to the door right now" so they leave the packages on the stoop when I was tied up with feeding the baby or something. I've sent stuff to the PO box before just to avoid the whole situation at times, but that is a pain because my post office has very limited hours. I try to track my packages closely so I know when to expect someone now and I have an idea of what time each delivery person usually comes.

 

Yes, I guess a phone could wake a baby, but if you don't have a landline and your phone is in a different room than the baby or on vibrate/low volume you might hear it/answer it before it disturbs anyone else.

 

Now that would bother me!  But if my husband called/texted to say "student is on the way over, please give him the red/blue striped tie" the tie would be hanging over the doorknob when he arrived.  And I'd suggest my husband keep a stash of spares in his office.   :-)  

 

But yeah, if I'm not expecting anyone, I don't always answer the door.   And, if I do, I don't care what they can see of my house if they look in.  

 

 

I hadn't even though of putting the tie on the door knob, I didn't have time. He called when the student was only so many feet away from the house and I barely had time to grab the tie. I've also asked dh not to send someone over for payment without more of a heads up. I've had our lawn care guy show up as I'm hunting down the check book. Okay I know these are my issues... I need to get more organized lol. I know where the check book is and I've asked dh to just handle payment himself when he's home or by having the guy come to his work or whatever they can agree on.

Edited by heartlikealion
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