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How can we help ds to be faster on the PSAT/SAT?

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#151 RegGuheert

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 05:15 AM

Thanks, ElizabethB!  That sounds very interesting!  He rarely has difficulty finishing the reading section and he doesn't always respond well to new ways to do things, so I will not introduce this to him before the November sitting.  If it happens again in November, however, we will have a look.  In fact, I might try it myself, since I have always been a slow reader! :tongue_smilie:


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#152 ElizabethB

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 01:10 PM

Thanks, ElizabethB! That sounds very interesting! He rarely has difficulty finishing the reading section and he doesn't always respond well to new ways to do things, so I will not introduce this to him before the November sitting. If it happens again in November, however, we will have a look. In fact, I might try it myself, since I have always been a slow reader! :tongue_smilie:


Depending on how slow you read, it might just be faster to watch the videos, then! There are 70 or 80 minutes total over 10 lessons. Also, I'm not entirely sure which portion of it is improving people's reading speed, My hypothesis is the nonsense words and syllables but some of the obscure spelling rules I know and teach might also help.

Here is some of the brain research about why it might help, short answer, brains of good readers are processing every sound in parallel on the side of the brain that processes sound and oral language.

I think that the focus on sounds in nonsense words and syllables and over learning the sounds most people have not spent a lot of time learning and most of my students don't know well, the two letter vowel teams, will help you read faster. (I also have a bunch of spelling rules about endings about them, ai/ay; oi/oy, native English words don't end in i, ou/ow; au/aw, native English words don't end in a u.)

https://www.youtube....XD3CXgCBIGeSZpM

Edited by ElizabethB, 14 October 2017 - 05:56 PM.

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#153 RegGuheert

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:44 AM

This is just a quick update prior to receiving his final scores over the next month.

 

- DS17 is no more...replaced by DS18, who is taller than I am. :glare:

- DS18 took the SAT again on November 4.  That made three official tests within a month: October 7: SAT, October 11: PSAT, and November 4: SAT.  We decided that since we are out of practice materials, it would be best for him to retake the SAT before his training got stale.

- He said that he finished everything on this test in the allotted time except one Math No Calculator question.

- If DS18 achieved at least a 1470 on the November SAT, he is done for good, regardless of his PSAT score.  He will only need to retake the SAT if he got lower than 1470 on this test AND he achieve National Merit Semifinalist status on this year's PSAT.

 

- DS18 should get his SAT score this Friday, November 17.

- DS18 should get his PSAT score on Wednesday, December 13.


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#154 daijobu

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:43 PM

This is just a quick update prior to receiving his final scores over the next month.

 

- DS17 is no more...replaced by DS18, who is taller than I am. :glare:

 

 

 

whew!  Am I the only one who thought something terrible had befallen your ds 17?  


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#155 RegGuheert

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 11:24 PM

- If DS18 achieved at least a 1470 on the November SAT, he is done for good, regardless of his PSAT score.

Woohoo! 1490! He is officially done with all PSATs and SATs!

R&W: 730, Math: 760, Overall 1490

(Funny thing: DS18 is either the third or perhaps even the fourth child in our family to get exactly 760 on the math section of the SAT.)

He missed 6 on reading, 3 on writing, and 4 on math (he guessed on one math no calculator question due to time).

The only worrisome thing is that his reading score was a bit lower than would be required for National Merit Semifinalist status on the PSAT. If he missed that many questions on the reading section of the PSAT, he is likely out of the running for NM Semifinalist in our state. We will just have to wait until December 13 to find out his PSAT score.

In any case, it took a LOT of work, but he DID manage to improve his math speed enough to achieve a high score on the SAT. We're extremely proud of him!

Bottom line: It IS possible to double PSAT/SAT math speed while simultaneously improving accuracy. Thanks again to all who helped him to achieve that goal!
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#156 Lilaclady

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:48 AM

Congratulations
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#157 madteaparty

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 07:15 AM

This is an amazing thread. We are not there yet but I've just caught up on it. One thing that is surprising to me is how hard some of the math questions are. But better to be surprised early than late ;) is SAT math generally considered harder than ACT math? I ask because on the ACT, the math my DS missed was the easy, 4th grade stuff (one question was literally on the definition of the median--"here's 5 scores, what's the median"), so maybe this is a perception issue for me...
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#158 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 07:20 AM

My kids have always done very well on the math section. They read slowly, so reading speed has always been their Achilles heel.
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#159 Grantmom

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 09:30 AM

Congratulations!  That's awesome!  Thank you for sharing your journey here.  I wish I had been sooner to get on top of this with DS1.  I think there is a real misperception that scoring well on these tests is a matter of intelligence.  I mean I think people say they know that it's not, but on a subconscious level, we still think it.  But it really is so much about timing and practice.  To be honest, I don't know why the thing is even timed at all!  Or why they aren't just a little more generous with time.  Does the timing really separate out people with greater abilities?  Why does it matter if it takes you 30 seconds to solve a problem or 60 seconds?  Is the person who can solve it in 30 seconds smarter?  I'm not convinced.  I'm not saying they should give you all day, but in reality, what does the high pressure of the timing tell us?  I'm not convinced that the person who can do it quicker is somehow more talented or smart.  


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#160 Arcadia

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:36 PM

I think there is a real misperception that scoring well on these tests is a matter of intelligence. I mean I think people say they know that it's not, but on a subconscious level, we still think it.

It’s both hard work and intellectual advantage. I can’t deny that I already have an intellectual advantage when it comes to test taking. My kids scores are already high without effort but they did put in effort to push their scores higher. It’s like scoring a 90% without trying and a 100% with effort.

My husband borrowed this library book “The Drive to Learn” recently that is an interesting read. It doesn’t tell us anything new as we are Asians. However homeschoolers do behave similar to Asians in the take charge approach and mastery approach to their kids education.

I link to the review page on the author’s website as it’s more informative about the book contents https://thedrivetolearn.info/reviews/

Does the timing really separate out people with greater abilities? Why does it matter if it takes you 30 seconds to solve a problem or 60 seconds? Is the person who can solve it in 30 seconds smarter?

Timing does correlate somewhat to processing speed. Effort helps but the starting point is different for my lower processing speed kid than my fast processor (who has other issues). It doesn’t make my fast processor smarter than my slow processor; they have their own strengths and weaknesses. However in the “world” of IQ testing, my slow processor IQ score is pulled down by the low processing speed score. The difference is big enough for him to be classified as 2E if I had put him back in school (99th percentile versus 50th percentile).

The timing issue belongs in a job aptitude test which requires that kind of timing. Cashiering during Christmas is a job that did require my fast mental skills because the POS system can mess up at times.

Timing issues did mean my DS11 have to put in more effort to score similar to DS12. CollegeBoard and ACT do give extra time accommodations to those that need it. Since scores are normed, I am rather neutral about my slower child being affected by timed tests. My college exams were timed too so I see it as something my kids have to learn to cope with as best they can.

PS: I am typing this on the way to my kids German class. Sorry it’s so disjointed. (ETA: my husband drives, not me)

Edited by Arcadia, 19 November 2017 - 12:19 AM.

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#161 wapiti

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 01:26 PM

Congratulations!  That's awesome!  Thank you for sharing your journey here.  I wish I had been sooner to get on top of this with DS1.  I think there is a real misperception that scoring well on these tests is a matter of intelligence.  I mean I think people say they know that it's not, but on a subconscious level, we still think it.  But it really is so much about timing and practice.  To be honest, I don't know why the thing is even timed at all!  Or why they aren't just a little more generous with time.  Does the timing really separate out people with greater abilities?  Why does it matter if it takes you 30 seconds to solve a problem or 60 seconds?  Is the person who can solve it in 30 seconds smarter?  I'm not convinced.  I'm not saying they should give you all day, but in reality, what does the high pressure of the timing tell us?  I'm not convinced that the person who can do it quicker is somehow more talented or smart.  

It seems to me that the top scorers have a combination of things:  intelligence, practice, and speed.

Speed isn't a significant factor in intelligence, i.e., if I recall correctly, the processing speed portion of IQ tests is not very g-loaded and its inclusion in a full-scale IQ result is at least a little controversial, depending on who you ask.  The tight timing of these important college entrance tests has long vexed me.  I don't get it at all.  Maybe the tight timing is merely a logistical tool to get a sufficient number of questions completed in a realistic timeframe.

 

It would be fascinating to study what a change of, say, ten minutes per section would do to student scores - some would increase, some wouldn't.  I'm sure someone must look at this within the context of LDs but I doubt it is considered outside that.


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#162 Grantmom

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 02:51 PM

 

 

It would be fascinating to study what a change of, say, ten minutes per section would do to student scores - some would increase, some wouldn't.  I'm sure someone must look at this within the context of LDs but I doubt it is considered outside that.

 

I agree it would be really interesting to look at on a large scale.  Would it actually increase the numbers of students in the top percentiles?  Or would it not make enough of a difference over a large enough population of students?  It's a really interesting question.  I honestly don't think it's even a matter of processing speed for all students.  Some may just need to think for a few more seconds and would get the answer correct.


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#163 wapiti

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 05:37 PM

I agree it would be really interesting to look at on a large scale.  Would it actually increase the numbers of students in the top percentiles?  Or would it not make enough of a difference over a large enough population of students?  It's a really interesting question.  I honestly don't think it's even a matter of processing speed for all students.  Some may just need to think for a few more seconds and would get the answer correct.

 

It couldn't increase the numbers of students in the top percentiles, by definition.  But, surely some students would score higher.  And then the test maker would need to make the test harder to avoid clumping at the top of the curve.  See e.g. ACT (easier but faster) vs SAT (trickier but more time per question).

 

Sort of related - I honestly think SAT's reading section is harder this fall than it was last winter and the prior spring when the New SAT was first administered, like they accidentally made it too easy initially.


Edited by wapiti, 18 November 2017 - 05:38 PM.

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#164 daijobu

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 05:55 PM


My husband borrowed this library book “The Drive to Learn” recently that is an interesting read. It doesn’t tell us anything new as we are Asians. However homeschoolers do behave similar to Asians in the take charge approach and mastery approach to their kids education.

I link to the review page on the author’s website as it’s more informative about the book contents https://thedrivetolearn.info/reviews/

 

 

Thank you for this recommendation.  What do you think are the main takeaways of the book?  


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#165 Arcadia

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 07:21 PM

What do you think are the main takeaways of the book?

The author presented his opinions based on his research but left it open to parents to decide on how much emphasis to give to academics for their own household. Not everyone aspire to be like Amy Chua after all.

The gist would be that if people were to treat academics the way they treat sports, the gap would be much less. As in parents tend to be more on the ball about their kids sports progress than about their brick and mortar school kids academic progress. That if parents are proactive all the way towards academics, and mend the gaps as their kids progress on the academic journey either by coaching and/or afterschooling then they won’t be scrambling in the teenage years if their kids start floundering (as in won’t be blindsided).

I am a chinese though not from China so nothing in the book is new to us. It does describe quite accurately the Asian culture with regards to academics. Many Asian (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) immigrants here behave very similar to the culture described in the book. I do see the difference between proficiency and mastery though in American born asians which was also described in the book though the author compared Americans in general and Asians in general. There is an A grade proficiency where the child comes back home from school with As, and a mastery level where you can explain to or teach someone else. To put it bluntly, an Asian parent would scrutinize the tests that come home from school and see whether the A was an easy A or hard earned A. They would also spot any errors in marking the teachers had. On one hand they are respectful of teachers, on the other hand they are aware that parents and students have shared responsibility for the students academic outcome.

That is why I commented that the book has similarities to homeschooling because the homeschoolers on this board are very likely to be on the ball about their kids strengths and weakness, as well as progress on every subject. They are less likely to leave it all to the outsourced teacher and not check to see how their child is coping.
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#166 wapiti

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:01 PM

For anyone who will be waiting on PSAT scores, I just noticed that they are being released on different dates depending on region https://collegereadi.../getting-scores .  We will get them Dec 11.


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#167 snowbeltmom

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 08:32 PM

For anyone who will be waiting on PSAT scores, I just noticed that they are being released on different dates depending on region https://collegereadi.../getting-scores .  We will get them Dec 11.

 

Even though it didn't affect me personally, I am glad to see that the guidance counselors are no longer acting as the gate keepers of the PSAT scores. 
 


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#168 RootAnn

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:19 PM

I just checked last year's thread & that reminded me that we didn't need an access code last year; the results just showed up in their College Board account. I don't know when they'll post the results (timewise) on the day (Dec 11, 12, or 13) indicated, but last year, Reg won the Hive Chocolate for being the first to access scores at around 7:30 a.m. Eastern time. (Last year, I saw they would start being released at 6 a.m., but they didn't start showing up until 7:30.)


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#169 Woodland Mist Academy

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:40 PM

Is it by location where you took the test or by location where you are checking scores? For APs some people have a friend or relative in other state check their scores so they can find out earlier. It looks like that won't work for the PSAT, correct?



#170 RootAnn

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:58 PM

Is it by location where you took the test or by location where you are checking scores? For APs some people have a friend or relative in other state check their scores so they can find out earlier. It looks like that won't work for the PSAT, correct?

 

No, I think it would work for this, too. I think it depends on where the internet thinks you are...

 

You’ll receive your 2017 PSAT/NMSQT scores December 11, 12, or 13. Score availability depends on the state from which you’re accessing your online score report.

 


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#171 lewber

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:14 PM

Will Freshman scores be released on the same schedule? If they took the PSAT 8/9 test?

#172 Arcadia

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:38 PM

If they took the PSAT 8/9 test?


PSAT 8/9 results are on a different schedule

“Materials should be returned for scoring once testing is concluded at your school. Scores will be available online about two months after answer sheets are received.
...
Fall 2017 Score Release Dates

Online scores and interpretive materials will be available depending on when schools return answer sheets.

Schools returning materials postmarked on or before November 3, 2017, should expect scores to be available to educators December 4 and available to students December 11.

Schools returning materials postmarked after November 3 should expect scores to be available on a weekly basis after December 4.

Paper score reports will be mailed soon after online scores are available.”
https://collegereadi...educators/dates

#173 wapiti

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 11:55 AM

Ok, for anyone interested, the kids over in the SAT subreddit figured out a back door into the PSAT score report if it is the most recent College Board test the person took.  I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to reddit, but it's interesting.  I don't think it'll work here as dd took the Nov SAT.  (ETA, if you google in quotes "how to get psat score early" you should find it)

 

ETA, apparently College Board fixed it.  Sorry for those who missed out.


Edited by wapiti, 26 November 2017 - 09:09 PM.

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#174 Caroline

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:21 PM

Ok, for anyone interested, the kids over in the SAT subreddit figured out a back door into the PSAT score report if it is the most recent College Board test the person took. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to reddit, but it's interesting. I don't think it'll work here as dd took the Nov SAT. (ETA, if you google in quotes "how to get psat score early" you should find it)


It worked! Thanks!
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#175 RootAnn

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:41 PM

Ok, for anyone interested, the kids over in the SAT subreddit figured out a back door into the PSAT score report if it is the most recent College Board test the person took.  I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to reddit, but it's interesting.  I don't think it'll work here as dd took the Nov SAT.  (ETA, if you google in quotes "how to get psat score early" you should find it)

:svengo:

:party:  Oh, wow. It worked. 

 

  :thumbup1:   :hurray:  I wonder if the CB will find & patch the work-around soon.


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#176 mirabillis

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:16 PM

didn't work for me. we took the nov sat too. :-)) fun trying though.


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#177 Roadrunner

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:42 PM

No, I think it would work for this, too. I think it depends on where the internet thinks you are...


It that's he case, can't people just use a vpn on their phone and pretend to be somewhere else?
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#178 wapiti

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:09 PM

didn't work for me. we took the nov sat too. :-)) fun trying though.

Someone came up with another method for that - I haven't tried it yet
 

1) Go here https://     studentscores.collegeboard.org/viewscore/details
2) Open inspect element and search asmtSessionParticipantId
3) The first result you see is your PSAT 2017 test ID
4) copy it and paste it in URL https://     studentscores.collegeboard.org/assessment/getPSATReportPdf/PASTE_ID_HERE/
5) This will download your 2017 PSAT score report

 

ETA, it worked.  It took a bit to find the ID number in Safari in inspect element.  I put the ID number together with the link in a word document and then copied it into the address bar and poof, I was downloading the PDF.

 

ETA again, word is that the opportunity is over, College Board fixed it.


Edited by wapiti, 26 November 2017 - 09:08 PM.

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#179 RootAnn

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:26 PM

It that's he case, can't people just use a vpn on their phone and pretend to be somewhere else?

Yes. I think some people do that.
(But this hack posted above or below gets you the scores now. Which is amazing.)
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#180 EKS

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 04:49 PM

It worked for the PSAT--thank you!!!


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#181 snowbeltmom

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 04:53 PM

I hope the College Board's other information is more secure. 

 

Since the scores are available, why not simply release them?  I don't get it.


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#182 RootAnn

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:08 PM

They have a schedule of release dates published in advance. High School Counselors get a week (Dec 4-8) to look at their kids' scores before the kids get their reports (Dec 11-13). I'm assuming they build in some fluff in case something takes a long time - like it did the first year of the redesign (2015?) when scores weren't released until January. 


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#183 wapiti

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:51 PM

I agree w/Snowbeltmom that this doesn't inspire confidence in the security of our kids' info, but... I'm still laughing at the College Board.  Is that bad?  I suppose we'll find the site out of service tomorrow morning.

 

ETA, rumor is that College Board has now fixed it.  RegGuheert, did you miss out?

ETA again, the workaround for those with a Nov SAT score may be worth a try, above, the one that involves inserting the id, but in this link:  https://    studentscores.collegeboard.org/assessment/%20getPSATReportPdf/PASTE_ID_HERE/.  College Board may not have fully blocked that.


Edited by wapiti, 26 November 2017 - 11:44 PM.

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#184 RegGuheert

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:04 AM

didn't work for me. we took the nov sat too. :-)) fun trying though.

 

So did DS18.  That changes the page a bit, I believe, so it is not clear which number to use.

 

ETA again, word is that the opportunity is over, College Board fixed it.

 

It seems so...

 

I agree w/Snowbeltmom that this doesn't inspire confidence in the security of our kids' info, but... I'm still laughing at the College Board.  Is that bad?  I suppose we'll find the site out of service tomorrow morning.

 

I suppose I do not agree that this is a security leak since I had to be signed in to access the list of score report ID numbers.  Also, I don't know if you could have just picked ANY score report ID and have had it download.  Perhaps it only allows you to see your own reports.  I don't know.

 

ETA, rumor is that College Board has now fixed it.  RegGuheert, did you miss out?

 

No luck here.  Thanks for the links, though!

 

ETA again, the workaround for those with a Nov SAT score may be worth a try, above, the one that involves inserting the id, but in this link:  https://    studentscores.collegeboard.org/assessment/%20getPSATReportPdf/PASTE_ID_HERE/.  College Board may not have fully blocked that.

 

Yes, I have tried that, but it seems that the "fix" is to make it so that NO report PDFs can be downloaded from any SAT or PSAT test.  Instead, you are redirected to the scores "Dashboard" page.  This is true for ALL score reports, not just the 2017 PSAT.  In other words, if I just use that page and try to download some other PDF the normal way by clicking through and then clicking the "Download Report" button, I just get the "Dashboard" page instead.  As such, I don't think there is any hope to download a PSAT PDF.



#185 wapiti

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:51 AM

Oh well.  Maybe they shut off all pdf downloads last night as an emergency measure.  I suppose it's a busy morning over at College Board.


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#186 snowbeltmom

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:26 AM


I suppose I do not agree that this is a security leak since I had to be signed in to access the list of score report ID numbers.  Also, I don't know if you could have just picked ANY score report ID and have had it download.  Perhaps it only allows you to see your own reports.  I don't know.

 

 

.

 

Let's hope it only permits you to download your own score report.  If this approach enables someone to download any score report, the CB is going to have a major PR problem to deal with. 
 


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#187 RootAnn

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:28 AM

Something I noticed with the work around. . . DD always has to put in her password twice to get access to her detailed score report. For this one, though, once she was into her CB account, she didn't need to put her password in again.

 

I'll agree with wapiti that I bet things are busy at the College Board this morning, especially in the IT department.


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#188 RegGuheert

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 10:08 AM

I have what I think is the ID number for DS18's 2017 PSAT score report and I have tried hacking the Javascript to make it show the page for his results.  Unfortunately, it always goes back to the SAT result for November.  It seems to use the last seven digits of the November report as a check, but even if I change that also, it does not work.  What I'm doing *might* work had he not taken the November SAT, but I'm not sure.

 

In the words of the immortal Inigo Montoya: "I hate waiting."


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#189 daijobu

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:00 PM

 

 

In the words of the immortal Inigo Montoya: "I hate waiting."

 

Ha!  We just saw that again last week.  

 

"You seem a decent fellow.  I hate to kill you."

"You seem a decent fellow.  I hate to die."


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#190 Woodland Mist Academy

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:12 PM

Early PSAT scores???

 

Inconceivable!! 


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#191 daijobu

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:23 PM

"You keep using that word, asmtSessionParticipantId."

 

I do not think it means what you think it means."


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#192 Woodland Mist Academy

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:26 PM

:lol:


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#193 JoJosMom

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:30 AM

:lol:

 

I was going to say the very same thing!  :laugh:


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#194 Jazzy

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 12:14 PM

It’s both hard work and intellectual advantage. I can’t deny that I already have an intellectual advantage when it comes to test taking. My kids scores are already high without effort but they did put in effort to push their scores higher. It’s like scoring a 90% without trying and a 100% with effort.

My husband borrowed this library book “The Drive to Learn” recently that is an interesting read. It doesn’t tell us anything new as we are Asians. However homeschoolers do behave similar to Asians in the take charge approach and mastery approach to their kids education.

I link to the review page on the author’s website as it’s more informative about the book contents https://thedrivetolearn.info/reviews/


I finished this book today, and it was helpful. Thanks for the recommendation!

#195 daijobu

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 09:03 PM

I finished this book today, and it was helpful. Thanks for the recommendation!

 

Would you mind sharing what you thought was notable about the book.  

 

For those of us who may never get around to reading it?   :leaving: 



#196 Jazzy

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 10:42 PM

Would you mind sharing what you thought was notable about the book.

For those of us who may never get around to reading it? :leaving:

It basically attributed the differences between educational outcomes of Asians and Americans to differences in our children’s receptiveness being educated and differences in parents’ views of their role in education.

These are generalizations based on research presented in the book, but Asian children come to school aiming to receive information from experts (their teachers) and are less inclined to expect discussions, fun projects, and a discovery based approach to education. They are also raised to value the process of working hard to master material. They don’t rely on parents/teachers to boost their self-esteem. Self-esteem is a by product of having worked hard and achieved.

Asian parents don’t believe their children should learn independently. They believe in training their children to acquire knowledge and improve upon their weaknesses in the same way a coach would train athletes to acquire new/better skills. They structure their children’s time, provide resources, and work with their children, especially in areas of weakness. They believe in showing their children how to do things properly, not letting them learn for themselves. Just as a coach has a share of ownership in a team’s wins and losses, Asian parents feel children’s successes or failures also reflect on the parents.

Also, Asian parents don’t believe children are either born with the ability to thrive academically or they aren’t. They believe that those who struggle simply need to work harder to achieve mastery. They may need more teaching, drill, etc.

The book ends with 7 commitments parents can make to their children if they want their children to excel academically.

I thought the book was eye opening and came away with some ideas about things I’d like to do differently.

Edited by Jazzy, 05 December 2017 - 10:43 PM.

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