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Math Credits and Placement Tests???


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Please Ignore my signature. It does not accurately describe us. Anyhow. My 16yo DD is starting her 10th Grade Credits. A Mix of ACE, Notgrass, and not decided on math yet. We are of the get er done philosophy. Especially since she is "behind" and should be starting 11th grade credits this year. She has just finished CLE 700 and is very grounded now in her basic math functions and I am sure she is ready for Algebra 1, maybe even Algebra 2; which is where my question lies. If she takes a placement test and places into Algebra 2, how do we give credit for Algebra 1 as it is required. (Going by state graduation requirements which are according to career path/college chosen. We are not sure of a career path, maybe nursing. Probably college anyway. )

 

So I was looking at Teaching Textbooks for Algebra 1 and I really think she may place into Algebra 2.  How do we give the required math credits for Algebra 1?

 

Thanks.

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If she places in to Algebra II, she obviously learned Algebra I adequately somehow - so you just give her credit.  If she did not adequately learn Algebra I it will become very obvious as she works through Algebra II, and she will have to fix the gaps in her knowledge to move on.  So not a big deal.

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Please Ignore my signature. It does not accurately describe us. Anyhow. My 16yo DD is starting her 10th Grade Credits. A Mix of ACE, Notgrass, and not decided on math yet. We are of the get er done philosophy. Especially since she is "behind" and should be starting 11th grade credits this year. She has just finished CLE 700 and is very grounded now in her basic math functions and I am sure she is ready for Algebra 1, maybe even Algebra 2; which is where my question lies. If she takes a placement test and places into Algebra 2, how do we give credit for Algebra 1 as it is required. (Going by state graduation requirements which are according to career path/college chosen. We are not sure of a career path, maybe nursing. Probably college anyway. )

 

So I was looking at Teaching Textbooks for Algebra 1 and I really think she may place into Algebra 2.  How do we give the required math credits for Algebra 1?

 

Thanks.

 

OP, your dd used CLE 700 this past year, and did well with it, yes?  Good for her!!!  Has she done any other math besides the CLE 700?  

 

Looking at CLE's Scope and Sequence, it says "Grades 7 and 8 assume mastery of basic arithmetic and concentrate on consumer math, geometry, and prealgebra.  Students who successfully complete Sunrise Math 700–800 should be able to move directly into any basic Algebra 1."  

 

Looking at the scope and sequence for 700, I think this description is quite accurate.  There is not much work in the use of variables and equation-solving, or doing stuff with lines (equations for them, graphing them, finding the slope, etc.).  Compare, for example, to the McDougal-Littell Pre-algebra text, where students do quite a bit with these topics.  Unless your dd has done work outside of CLE to prep for Algebra work (or I'm pulling up the wrong scope and sequence for your CLE text), then it's likely that her success with CLE 700 has prepared her for, as promised, a basic Algebra 1 text (or a challenging pre-Algebra text). She will not have covered the topics necessary to test out of Algebra I, or to prepare her for an Algebra II course.

 

If she is as successful with Algebra I next year as she was with CLE 700 this year, she may be up for taking Algebra II in 12th grade, though many students do a year of Geometry in between.  (Algebra I is often done in 9th grade so they can fit all three courses in to the high school years.)

 

You will have to think carefully about whether you want to continue at the "basic" level for her work in math, or whether she would like a bit more of the kind of challenge that would come with a college-prep level of math, and choose your text accordingly.

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OP, I really think your dd would be better off going through algebra 1 at an accelerated pace than trying to jump from pre-algebra to algebra 2. If she is clever and just hasn't received instruction, I wouldn't be at all surprised if she could do algebra 1 + 2 in a full year including summer, as she wouldn't forget stuff in between algebra 1 and algebra 2 when she moves directly from one to the other. If she's learned or intuited some algebra 1, she could test through an algebra one book such as Lial's by doing the chapter tests and skipping any chapter where she gets an A on the test.

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OP, I really think your dd would be better off going through algebra 1 at an accelerated pace than trying to jump from pre-algebra to algebra 2. If she is clever and just hasn't received instruction, I wouldn't be at all surprised if she could do algebra 1 + 2 in a full year including summer, as she wouldn't forget stuff in between algebra 1 and algebra 2 when she moves directly from one to the other. If she's learned or intuited some algebra 1, she could test through an algebra one book such as Lial's by doing the chapter tests and skipping any chapter where she gets an A on the test.

 

I have gone through the placement test for Teaching Textbooks Algebra 1 and I think she would be able to pass with nearly 100%. I think going into Algebra 1, I would really like her to have a "teacher" or a "class" or at least something like whatTT offers. She just wants to be done with school so maybe TT Alg.1 would be fine and she can finish it as soon as she likes then move onto Geometry then Alg. 2 at her own pace. 

 

On the Other hand, I am afraid that if she is too bored with it, she will not see the need to finish and loose motivation to go on. She has done really well with CLE since 8th grade but I know it changes format now into a textbook and working on your own paper. Im not sure how she will do with that. She does pretty well for the most part in whatever she does, as long as she can stay motivated.

Edited by Spillman6
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I would be extremely reluctant to have a student skip algebra 1. Algebra 1 is the foundation for all subsequent math, and for science, and any gaps there will cause trouble later on. I am puzzled why you think this would be advisable. You can't skip courses in math.

A student who passes a placement test for algebra 1 should be placed in algebra 1 unless she can demonstrate in a comprehensive algebra 1 final exam that she has, indeed, mastered and retained the algebra 1 material.

Edited by regentrude
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That means she is ready for Algebra 1, not that she has mastered Algebra 1 material.

 

I'm glad you figured this out because I couldn't figure out what was going on.

 

OP, you mentioned your DD was possibly interested in nursing. The number one thing at my college that causes pre-nursing students to have to change their majors or drop out is math (the number two thing is anatomy and physiology). These students come in with credits on their transcripts for algebra 2 and pre-calculus, and yet they repeatedly struggle in my developmental math class because they are not solid in pre-algebra and algebra 1. You don't want your DD to be in this boat. 

 

If she has never had algebra, she really needs to at least test through it by doing the chapter tests. If she actually has learned it somewhere, this will waste at most a few weeks. But if (as I suspect) there are gaps in her knowledge, you will find them this way. She will then be set up for success in algebra 2, geometry, and in the math classes required for college graduation. 

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I have gone through the placement test for Teaching Textbooks Algebra 1 and I think she would be able to pass with nearly 100%. I think going into Algebra 1, I would really like her to have a "teacher" or a "class" or at least something like whatTT offers. She just wants to be done with school so maybe TT Alg.1 would be fine and she can finish it as soon as she likes then move onto Geometry then Alg. 2 at her own pace. 

 

On the Other hand, I am afraid that if she is too bored with it, she will not see the need to finish and loose motivation to go on. She has done really well with CLE since 8th grade but I know it changes format now into a textbook and working on your own paper. Im not sure how she will do with that. She does pretty well for the most part in whatever she does, as long as she can stay motivated.

 

OP, it sounds like your dd has done well in her previous math work. While it may have taken her longer than her peers to get to where she is, she seems to be there pretty solidly, which is great!  As others have said, a near-100% on the TT Algebra 1 placement test would mean that she will be well-prepared for their Algebra course.  To decide whether she should place into Algebra II, you should take a look at their Algebra II placement test.  If she can pass that with a near-100%, then she may be able to start with Algebra II.  However, if she has only done the CLE 700 course, then there are quite a few important subjects and skills that she has not yet been exposed to, and she has much to learn from a solid, challenging Algebra 1 course.  

 

I think it is a good idea for her to experience a math class (or even just an in-person tutor) before college.  There are many "classroom" skills to learn in order to be successful in a math classroom setting; better to learn those in the high school years rather than have to catch up with her schooled peers while in college. It is also wise to have some experience with a "working on your own paper" textbook, something her schooled peers will have been doing for many years.  A good teacher, and classroom peers with whom to share the experience, may be able to eliminate the boredom she is experiencing with a basic-level, single-student, workbook-based math program.  As PPs have noted, nursing requires good math skills, so the next two years will be critical if she is to be successful at entering a college-based nursing program after 12th grade.

 

However, I am a bit concerned with her lack of motivation & boredom in general, and "just wanting to be done with school".  It may be wise to spend some time helping her set some goals for her future, to give her the motivation needed to accomplish them.  In particular, visiting some colleges may be helpful; most schools have free almost-daily tours and info sessions.  Check out the websites of local schools to get the details and get the college search started.  If she is more interested in a trade school, take a look at those.  And take a look at some of the medical career training offered at local community colleges.

 

In addition, time spent with motivated age-peers may help her begin to consider her future plans.  With that in mind, looking for a local homeschool co-op, or setting up a class or two where several friends share a tutor for a particular subject, might be worthwhile.  In some areas, dual enrollment at a local community college is another frequently-used option.

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One more note ... It is important to have your kid take the placement test and not just look through it yourself. I know my kids -- their strengths & weaknesses. However, I can overestimate (or underestimate) in some cases. How they perform on a placement test on any particular day may differ enough from my estimation as to make a difference in their placement.

 

As previous posters indicated, the Algebra 1 placement test helps you determine whether you should start with Alg 1 or with Pre-A. Here are the instructions:

 

 

 

This placement test can help you determine whether your child is ready for the Algebra 1
Teaching Textbook. The test is not perfect, so in making any final placement decision also use
common sense.
The student should work independently without the use of a calculator. It is not necessary to time
the test, but most students will finish in less than 1 1/2 hours.
Scoring
The test is divided into two sections. Section 1 includes problems 1 – 15. This is the simpler part
of the test, covering material from the first half of our Pre-Algebra product. Section 2 includes
problems 16 – 30. It is the more difficult part of the test, covering material from the second half
of our Pre-Algebra product.
The student is probably ready for Algebra 1 if he/she makes the following scores on the two
sections.
10 or more correct on Section 1 (problems 1 – 15)
and 8 or more correct on Section 2 (problems 16 – 30)
If the student’s score falls below this level, the Pre-Algebra Teaching Textbook is probably a
better starting point.

 

This is the link to the Alg 2 placement test. The Geometry placement test assumes you know some basic Algebra 1 as well.

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I have gone through the placement test for Teaching Textbooks Algebra 1 and I think she would be able to pass with nearly 100%. I think going into Algebra 1, I would really like her to have a "teacher" or a "class" or at least something like whatTT offers. She just wants to be done with school so maybe TT Alg.1 would be fine and she can finish it as soon as she likes then move onto Geometry then Alg. 2 at her own pace. 

 

On the Other hand, I am afraid that if she is too bored with it, she will not see the need to finish and loose motivation to go on. She has done really well with CLE since 8th grade but I know it changes format now into a textbook and working on your own paper. Im not sure how she will do with that. She does pretty well for the most part in whatever she does, as long as she can stay motivated.

CLE doesn't change formats until after Algebra 1.  Are you meaning it changes formats for Algebra II?

 

If CLE has worked really well for her but you are concerned about the timing, maybe have her work through CLE Algebra I at an accelerated pace (if she can truly skip the 800's).  Have her work through 901 and if she has no issues at all then she could do the new material from two lessons of the 900s and the review from the second lesson. Skip the quizzes.  In other words, week 1 day 1 of light unit 902 she would do the new material from Lessons 1 and 2 and the review material from Lesson 2.  Then on day 2 she would do new material from Lesson 3 and 4 and review from only lesson 4.  Skip lesson 5 since that is with the quiz.  Day 3 would be 6 and 7 with review from 7.  And so on.  That means she would complete a light unit in about 8 days instead of 17.  She could finish all of CLE Algebra I in maybe 80 days.  That would give her a very solid foundation for most standard Algebra II programs.

 

At that point you could give her the placement test for TT Algebra II if you are still interested in that one and see how well she does.

 

Nursing requires math.  Is she highly motivated to take nursing courses?  Actually, is she motivated about going on to college at all?  Or is that just something you are hoping she will choose to do?

 

TT might still be a good idea but I would still go ahead and give her the placement test for Algebra I.  I agree with others, don't leap frog over Algebra I, especially if she has only had through CLE 700.  Also, I would still stay involved with her learning even with something like TT.  In fact, especially if you are using TT.  If she lacks motivation she may find ways to just "get through" without actually retaining much of the material.   You may find at the end of the year that she has not retained much of anything and will have to repeat Algebra I.  Maybe add in practice from other sources or outside testing periodically or do lessons together upon occasion.  

 

Other options if you think she really needs an outside source would be on-line classes.  Maybe Derek Owens http://www.derekowens.com/   or Jann in TX http://myhomeschoolmathclass.com/available-classes.html     or Live On Line Math    http://www.liveonlinemath.com/classes/my_classes_system.html  or Acellus    http://www.science.edu/Acellus/curriculum/mathematics/

Edited by OneStepAtATime
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I have a minute and would like to add some info. but can't address questions right now. Ideally she would like to take some classes at one of our alternative high schools and I have met with the counselor there twice; however, they are changing their structure and now require all students to be referred by their local high school, which she has zero interest in going to.  We still may be able to get that referral, we shall see. She has lots of friends here in our community and is very involved with a few peers in our circle of friends. We have recently had a major change in our home structure (abuse related) and she is in Australia right now for a visit with my sister to get away from here for a few weeks. In the meantime I need to figure out some things with her. We have talked extensively about her future and we are somewhat close. She is a good kid. But she is dealing with a lot right now. She is almost done with her counseling sessions and.....I dont know. We have talked about her future and she is not sure. She wants to travel and is consider college in Australia since it is an option, though we haven't really looked into that. She does have an interest in Nursing but is reluctant to start with cna certification because she doesn't want to work in a nursing home. Right now we just need to keep her options open which means getting through 3/4 years of high school math successfully. And of course the other core subjects.

 

Also, the other part of wanting to take classes through the alternative high school is that they will pay for dual enrollment; a major plus. I think outsourcing for math and a foreign language will be our 2 best options this year. We have met with the local CC and can possibly just handle dual enrollment on our own with them but it will be pricey AND I am not sure how well she will do in her writing to gain entrance there. Thanks for all the input. I will be mulling things over for the next few days.

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...Ideally she would like to take some classes at one of our alternative high schools ... Right now we just need to keep her options open which means getting through 3/4 years of high school math successfully. And of course the other core subjects.

 

Also, the other part of wanting to take classes through the alternative high school is that they will pay for dual enrollment; a major plus. I think outsourcing for math and a foreign language will be our 2 best options this year. We have met with the local CC and can possibly just handle dual enrollment on our own with them but it will be pricey AND I am not sure how well she will do in her writing to gain entrance there. Thanks for all the input. I will be mulling things over for the next few days.

 

It sounds like the alternative school might be a great option for her.  They are likely to be used to kids who are a bit behind in some subjects, so that won't be as much of an issue, and they are also likely to be sensitive to your family's abuse-related experience.  They would be able to help you decide which courses should be taken at the cc and which are better done at the school.  And of course the discount on the cc courses would be great.  If she can gradually move from high school classes to cc classes, that would be a great way to ease into college, starting with the subjects she is most well-versed in, and adding others as she gets up to speed in them.  (As a PP mentioned, she may not be ready yet for cc math courses.)  As to the nursing, talk to the cc about the medical programs they offer.  Then talk to local colleges that offer 4-year nursing programs.  See if there are any transfer agreements between the two types of schools, and look at how that would work along with the alternative school classes.  

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