Math for a child with a low IQ

[desertflower]

Hello,

 

The title says it all. 

 

I know about Semple math, Ronit Bird, CSMP, and touch math.  Is there anything else out there for children with low IQ?  More specifically for someone with an IQ of 70.

 

Any supplements or programs? 

 

Also, can someone please tell me what is the difference between this board and the learning challenges board, so I can post my topics more accurately? 

 

Thanks for any input. 

[Kat w]

I have the same questions as you :)

*Listening with anticipation*

 

Desertflower,

Just for kick n giggles, have you by chance tried Singapore ? When we started it our score was jus a little but higher than yours ( only by a few points)

 

It amazed me how much they got.

It's a very systematic approach which is partly why I think they do well with it.

You can go at your own pace. We go really really slow lol and practice alot. ( our wm is really low) but they remember that the beat.

 

Also, I've been looking at memoria presses new soec. needs curric. I'm going to order it.

 

They use rod and staff. I don't know anything about it but I'm going to R n s website today to pull up samples.

 

Memoria press has made a while different curriculums fir spec. Needs. I liked the samples I saw .

Iys called simply classical.

I viewed all the samples . and studied it all. I love it.

 

We have to have so much practice that not any one curriculum provides enough.

 

I like mus to introduce the Singapore lesson.

And use the math practice book for practice as well as the visible thinking by Singapore. More practice sheets. My boys think they are games :)

 

I'm gonna look at rod n staff

 

Oh, and you can customize a curric. Replace a diff math for a harder one or easier one. I like that too

Edited July 22, 2016 by Kat w

[Kat w]

OhE tikd me ronit bird is like 10. Or something .

I'm going to get that too. Fir 10 ya can't go wrong and it just might work

[desertflower]

Hey Kat,

 

Well, 2 of my children are using SM.  We love it.  I'm sorry, but I didn't mean to mislead anyone, but this child with a low IQ is not mine.  I'm helping someone else out.  Hence, the other question about teaching outside.  :)

 

Apparently, the current math program is not working.  I don't know if I just need something specifically for children with low IQs or just go at a slower pace.  It's good to know that you are using SM with your child.  I will consider it. 

 

I was thinking about MP SN program and will look into that later.  Just trying to get a little something at first.  Don't want to do too much too soon. 

 

I thought about MUS, but I don't think anyone uses it with children with low IQs.  At least not from what I've read so far.  I would actually love to buy MUS instead of Semple math.  I'm still hesitant to buy Semple.  My children love MUS blocks. 

 

I don't really want to use a program and go slow with it.  I want one that is made for a child with a low IQ. 

[Kat w]

Well, mus I use w NY low IQ 'y lol.

 

I have rela life friends here who swear by it with their low IQ guys.

 

Another friend dies the discovery program with LC kids Nd exclusively uses mus.

 

Not sure on smepl. I'm going to try it tho I think. For math facts mainly. Mine just aren't getting math facts.

Likely a combo of programs will have to be used.

[Kat w]

You might maybe want to try to post this on the k-8 board.

 

I know alot if moms hang out there. I've seen comments from moms with kids with LC.

[Kat w]

You might maybe want to try to post this on the k-8 board.

 

I know alot if moms hang out there. I've seen comments from moms with kids with LC.

[Rosie_0801]

Is it low IQ across the board, or are there low areas that bring down the average?

[desertflower]

I don't know.  She just told me her child's IQ was a 70.  She is pretty sure that her child is dyslexic.  No proof since the school won't pay for it.  From what she describes, I assume the child is dyscalculic and dysgraphic.  I know for a fact that this child has a speech problem.  They have had this checked out and there's nothing physically wrong.

 

All she knows is that the teacher told her that her child learns slowly and needs repetitiveness. 

[Kat w]

You're so sweet to help her. Navigating all this is so hard.

 

Good she has you :)

[Rosie_0801]

All she knows is that the teacher told her that her child learns slowly and needs repetitiveness. 

 

Mine does too. 

 

We use three different maths curricula plus supplements. It takes a long time to get in there, but what she knows, she knows thoroughly!

[OneStepAtATime]

So they think the child has a lower IQ because the school said so but never ran any tests? And you or the parents suspect dyscalculia, dyslexia, dysgraphia and maybe other issues but nothing was ever evaluated? Or were there evals?

[desertflower]

Mine does too.

 

We use three different maths curricula plus supplements. It takes a long time to get in there, but what she knows, she knows thoroughly!

Besides CSMP, what other math curr do you use?

[Rosie_0801]

Besides CSMP, what other math curr do you use?

 

Kate Snow's addition course really helped with visualisation and therefore mastery of maths facts to ten.

 

MEP for the drill and the puzzles, but she will hit a wall frequently with that (both for mathematical reasons and non-academic stress reasons) so we do it in fits and starts. If dd was NT, I think I'd use CSMP to supplement this rather than the other way around. I don't think I'd use it with your little guy unless you were very careful to run it behind his main program. I use it kind of the way SWB describes the use of picture book, then abridged versions of classics so when they come to the real thing, they know the story and can focus on the language. I don't use MEP for teaching dd, only for practicing the concepts she already has in a different format. 

 

Miquon as convenient worksheets. Dd doesn't do discovery! I sometimes pull them out when a CSMP lesson has been a bit too short to click and she's *nearly* there (for that day, anyway :p  .) I sometimes pull them out because they are convenient to pack if we're going to be elsewhere and the MEP is too much work for that day. I also use them to repeat stuff that has dropped out of her head due to dyscalculia. For example, we began working on fractions (which she needed to learn multiplication and division properly) a few months before the last school holidays. It turned out to be too little time to keep it in her head while she was at her father's for the week, so I started her over on the same worksheets again. I'm following a channel of H and I worksheets with that, and can repeat that sequence as often as she needs, while continuing on with other topics. Her mathematical skills may be at about a grade 2 level, but she's half way through grade 3 so has the ability to do a grade 3 kid's quantity of maths.

 

We've also used Education Unboxed videos and the al-Abacus book.

 

 

It sounds kind of insane to type it out, but she's testing well considering her challenges and these different methods are training her to mental flexibility and improving her logic skills, which are a *lot* stronger than they used to be. I wouldn't be able to do all this if she had maths anxiety, I don't think, but she doesn't so this has been able to sort of immunise her against developing it.

 

Anyway, for what my sample size of one is worth. :)

[desertflower]

So they think the child has a lower IQ because the school said so but never ran any tests? And you or the parents suspect dyscalculia, dyslexia, dysgraphia and maybe other issues but nothing was ever evaluated? Or were there evals?

This child had some testing done mid school year. I don't know if they were evals. As a result of those tests, she was told that her child's IQ Was 70. There is an IEP involved.

 

The father suspects dyslexia. The school won't acknowledge it unless he gets testing done from a private doctor. The parents can't afford private testing.

 

After this child's kindy year, there was talk of retaking it. For some reason, this child was moved forward. Now this child has to repeat first grade.

 

The parents don't know that conditions such as dysgraphia and dyscalculia exist. I'm not worried abiut dysgraphia at the moment. She was about to tell me how horrible the child's handwriting was, but we were interrupted.

 

I know first hand that this child's math has never been on grade level. According to the mother n law, this child doesn't have number sense. (I've asked a bunch of questions.)

 

I think this child's phonics may be ok. The child can read some cvc words. I have to do more assesments. For some reason, this child is having a hard time memorizing sight words.

 

Yes, there are a lot of speculations. There are some other stuff that I would rather not say. She came to me crying that she is afraid of failing her child. Hence, me trying to figure out things. I had suspected this a couple of years ago.

 

I realize that this child is going to need a lot of repetitiveness. I'm hoping to tell the mom what to do and say and have her do it 4 more times that week. Almost like occupational therapy. The therapist comes in does his/her thing and tell you to do it 3 or so more times for the week.

[Rosie_0801]

From my reading/ eavesdropping, I don't think people with dyslexia ever do well with sight words.

 

Drilling the syllabary combined with I See Sam worked really well for dd. However, I will never know whether that's because she doesn't have that part of the whole *-lexia conglomeration or if I "stealthed" it by using the method that was going to click with her in the first place. We seemed to have "stealthed" the dyscalculia with the stuff I outlined above. She no longer tests as having a maths difficulty, though her brain certainly hasn't become NT so she would rediscover it if we started pretending she was NT.

[OneStepAtATime]

If she has dyslexia then memorizing sight words could be totally useless and maybe impossible. DD spent years trying to memorize sight words because her school said that was the fastest way for her to learn to read and spell. It was a useless, demoralizing, depressing endeavor. She finally has been able to learn sight words because of the techniques used in Barton but never through just memorization. hopefully you can find a technique that helps with sight words but I would not focus on sight words for a potentially dyslexic child.

 

Honestly, without evaluations it may be exceedingly challenging to help this child but I admire you for trying.

Edited July 23, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[desertflower]

Kate Snow's addition course really helped with visualisation and therefore mastery of maths facts to ten.

 

MEP for the drill and the puzzles, but she will hit a wall frequently with that (both for mathematical reasons and non-academic stress reasons) so we do it in fits and starts. If dd was NT, I think I'd use CSMP to supplement this rather than the other way around. I don't think I'd use it with your little guy unless you were very careful to run it behind his main program. I use it kind of the way SWB describes the use of picture book, then abridged versions of classics so when they come to the real thing, they know the story and can focus on the language. I don't use MEP for teaching dd, only for practicing the concepts she already has in a different format.

 

Miquon as convenient worksheets. Dd doesn't do discovery! I sometimes pull them out when a CSMP lesson has been a bit too short to click and she's *nearly* there (for that day, anyway :p .) I sometimes pull them out because they are convenient to pack if we're going to be elsewhere and the MEP is too much work for that day. I also use them to repeat stuff that has dropped out of her head due to dyscalculia. For example, we began working on fractions (which she needed to learn multiplication and division properly) a few months before the last school holidays. It turned out to be too little time to keep it in her head while she was at her father's for the week, so I started her over on the same worksheets again. I'm following a channel of H and I worksheets with that, and can repeat that sequence as often as she needs, while continuing on with other topics. Her mathematical skills may be at about a grade 2 level, but she's half way through grade 3 so has the ability to do a grade 3 kid's quantity of maths.

 

We've also used Education Unboxed videos and the al-Abacus book.

 

 

It sounds kind of insane to type it out, but she's testing well considering her challenges and these different methods are training her to mental flexibility and improving her logic skills, which are a *lot* stronger than they used to be. I wouldn't be able to do all this if she had maths anxiety, I don't think, but she doesn't so this has been able to sort of immunise her against developing it.

 

Anyway, for what my sample size of one is worth. :)

Can you please provide a link to kate snow's class? I didn't know she had a class.

 

I was actually planning on education unboxed as well. I'm so glad you told me that this helps your dd.

 

What does NT mean?

 

Yes, you are right. I'm not touching MEP at the moment. I'm going to look at his books next week.

[Rosie_0801]

NT means neurotypical.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/homeschoolmathhelp/
I'm not sure if Kate runs continuous access to that course, but you can ask.

[desertflower]

Do you guys know if mnemonics will help? I was thinking of putting a picture with the sight word. Or does this just depend on the child?

 

Or is barton, OG, LiPs, and wilson the only way to help?

 

Eta: I don't mind stealthing it. :)

[desertflower]

Thank you Rosie for the link.

 

You are right onestep. But I'm hoping if I fail and the mother fails, then this will be their wake up call. Not that I'm hoping to fail or hoping that she fails. They are in denial and I'm too chicken to say anything. Well, scratch that. I actually did say something once, but they chalked it up to the child being immature.

 

I already told them that I'm just a supplement. I'm hoping to make this fun for this child. Like you said onestep, "it's a demoralizing and depressing endeavor" and I'm trying to make sure that this child doesn't go through this for years.

 

Another reason why I'm doing this is because the mother doesn't know about this forum and doesn't know how to do this type of research. She's more of a Facebook type.

[Kanin]

I used Ronit Bird with a kid with a similar IQ. It was GREAT! He loved it. It was so fun. He finally "got" what numbers were.

 

Starting with the Dots e-book and the free games on Ronit Bird's website is a great idea. She also posts printable game boards, dot cards, etc. as well as videos that show how to do the games. You will only need a few simple materials like little glass counters, buttons, etc. and a little later in, cuisenaire rods. You can also "like" her on Facebook where she posts things. 

 

As far as reading... with an IQ of 70, this child will probably not get the label of dyslexia, and thus all the reading instruction tailored to dyslexics. The school district will probably say that the reading problems are due to low IQ and not dyslexia.  In my opinion, that's absolutely absurd. It's terrible to limit a child's potential based on an IQ test. A lot of people are now questioning the "discrepancy theory" of separating dyslexia/not-dyslexia by using an IQ test. 

 

I've been doing research that shows that dyslexics and "non-dyslexic poor readers", i.e. those with below-average IQ, have the EXACT same deficits in reading, namely phonological awareness. If you tested a bunch of kids without knowing their IQs, you couldn't tell which ones were dyslexic and which ones had low-IQ.

 

If it were me, I'd teach this kid the exact same way I'd teach a dyslexic child. Sight-word only instruction is NOT the way to go. Start with Lindamood-Bell's LiPs program. LOTS of phonemic awareness activities. There are tons of free resources available for this. If you're interested enough, I'd just bite the bullet and buy the LiPS manual and then DIY the rest of the materials. I don't think you'll regret the price of the manual.

 

You're awesome for helping your friend. WAY TO GO!

Edited July 23, 2016 by Mainer

[Kat w]

Rosie, I do what you do too only with different curriculums .

 

What's MEP and CSMP?

I did a Google search, but goofy stuff came up.

 

Thanks

[Kanin]

If you don't want to go full-bore LiPS, you could start with doing lots of phonological awareness games. If your student knows the letter/sound correspondences, you could periodically check to see if the phonological awareness is improving his/her ability to read 2-3 sound words. 

 

You could play:

 

Hearing the first sound of a word, hearing the last sound

Matching pictures that have the same first, middle, last sound

Hopping out the sounds - CAT = c-a-t, three hops! Use hula hoops if you want :)

Exaggerate sounds using silly voices 

Have him/her go find objects using silly voices - "Go find me a c-u-p!" said in silly voice

Clap syllables, if they can do it (sometimes that's hard for a while until PA gets better)

And SO much more!

 

As someone who tried to wing reading tutoring before, it was really just not great for my student. I feel like a big dunce about it now, but I didn't know better at the time. :( At the very least you should get SOME sort of program or manual, even just for the list of sounds introduced. You don't necessarily need a "program" per se, but just some sort of framework. Otherwise, it's easy to get distracted and lost. 

 

At my school we use the Recipe for Reading, and it's $16 on Amazon. It's not a "program," and in my experience you should supplement with a TON of phonological awareness activities. Someone who is struggling obviously needs more than the basic reading instruction. BUT, that being said, the Recipe is cheap, and a good outline. It introduces the letters in a certain order, but you can change the order. Each letter gets a short lesson, sample spelling words, sentences, etc. You can customize, but it's just NICE to have a framework so you feel more in control, ya know? :)

 

 

 

[desertflower]

Rosie, I do what you do too only with different curriculums .

 

What's MEP and CSMP?

I did a Google search, but goofy stuff came up.

 

Thanks

 

CSMP is for Comprehensive School Mathematics Program.  Here's the link.  http://stern.buffalostate.edu/CSMPProgram/Primary%20Disk/Start.html

 

MEP is for Mathematics Enhancement Program.  I can't find this one tonight either.  I have before, but can't tonight for some reason.  This one is free and from Britain. 

[Rosie_0801]

Here's MEP: http://www.cimt.org.uk/projects/mep/index.htm

Did you guys mess up the Google search preferences? !!

[desertflower]

Here's MEP: http://www.cimt.org.uk/projects/mep/index.htm

 

Did you guys mess up the Google search preferences? !!

 

LOL.  I was typing in program instead of programme. I guess that made a difference.  Didn't think it would, but who knows. 

 

Thanks for the link.  :)

[desertflower]

If you don't want to go full-bore LiPS, you could start with doing lots of phonological awareness games. If your student knows the letter/sound correspondences, you could periodically check to see if the phonological awareness is improving his/her ability to read 2-3 sound words. 

 

You could play:

 

Hearing the first sound of a word, hearing the last sound

Matching pictures that have the same first, middle, last sound

Hopping out the sounds - CAT = c-a-t, three hops! Use hula hoops if you want :)

Exaggerate sounds using silly voices 

Have him/her go find objects using silly voices - "Go find me a c-u-p!" said in silly voice

Clap syllables, if they can do it (sometimes that's hard for a while until PA gets better)

And SO much more!

 

As someone who tried to wing reading tutoring before, it was really just not great for my student. I feel like a big dunce about it now, but I didn't know better at the time. :( At the very least you should get SOME sort of program or manual, even just for the list of sounds introduced. You don't necessarily need a "program" per se, but just some sort of framework. Otherwise, it's easy to get distracted and lost. 

 

At my school we use the Recipe for Reading, and it's $16 on Amazon. It's not a "program," and in my experience you should supplement with a TON of phonological awareness activities. Someone who is struggling obviously needs more than the basic reading instruction. BUT, that being said, the Recipe is cheap, and a good outline. It introduces the letters in a certain order, but you can change the order. Each letter gets a short lesson, sample spelling words, sentences, etc. You can customize, but it's just NICE to have a framework so you feel more in control, ya know? :)

 

Mainer,

 

Thanks for the suggestions!  I would love to incorporate those activities.  Does the Recipe for Reading have similar activities?  I see in your siggie that you are an elementary school teacher for children with LC.  Do you use Recipe for Reading to teach them? 

 

Yes, I will probably buy something like Barton, but I'm going to look into that a little later. 

 

 

[Kat w]

CSMP is for Comprehensive School Mathematics Program. Here's the link. http://stern.buffalostate.edu/CSMPProgram/Primary%20Disk/Start.html

 

MEP is for Mathematics Enhancement Program. I can't find this one tonight either. I have before, but can't tonight for some reason. This one is free and from Britain.

Oh,, thanks desert flower :)

[Kanin]

Hi again! Yes, I use the Recipe for Reading as a framework. I add so much stuff to it, though, that it's not much more than a framework. I've never used Barton, but that seems like a super complete system. For ANY really struggling kid, though, it would be wise to check on the pre-Barton, pre-Recipe, phonological awareness skills. Without those, NO reading program will work. You'll just be banging your head against the wall wondering why on earth they're not learning. 

 

I think a lot of schools are too pressed for time to spend as long as they need to on those pre-reading skills. Considering kids are expected to read by the end of kindergarten now... when do they have time to play lots and lots and LOTS of phonological awareness games? 

 

Your new student is lucky to have you! Have fun!