Dyscalculia and Math mastery

[Heatdodge]

My 10 yr old son seems to have dyscalculia, dyslexia, and to a certain degree dysgraphia.  Right now, the dyscalculia is the biggest issue.  I have tried a handful of math curricula with only Life of Fred being moderately successful (and I consider it so mostly due to the fact that he likes it and doesn't complain about it) and I looking at trying out MathUSee after years of thinking about it and seeing reviews both in the positive and negative about it.  We have not been able to afford an eval yet, but I have known "something" was up since kindergarten, and it took me a couple of years to realize I wasn't just the worst teacher, and then a lot of googling to find "dyscalculia" and I was so relieved to see him described (despite the frustration of it all).  

 

My question is about mastery.  He is really smart, and has a knack for engineering.  He builds all sorts of things!  2 years ago, he built an automatic vending machine where your coins trigger a motor, pulley, and whatnot, and delivers a soda (or snack) into the front bin.  He is great with understanding electricity and circuits.  Physics makes total sense to him. (these are all things I'm terrible at!) But he counts on his fingers, knows place value but doesn't quite grasp it, and has very little number sense ("I got 18 hits today! At that rate, I'll have 100 in a month" I looked at him strangely and he said, "5 weeks??").  We have been working on addition and subtraction for soooooo long, and I just hope that it clicks someday, but each year we get farther behind grade level, which I don't worry about as a homeschooler, but he really wants to go to school at some point (soon).  I'm wondering if anyone has had success with jumping ahead in math.  Is it possible for us to just move on without mastery and see if, at some point we hit some kind of math his brain can make sense of?  Geometry or algebra, maybe? He's not phased by the idea solving for x - he just has to do it counting on his fingers. I mean, math seems based on mastery.  But if I just let him use a calculator, we could move on to other things. Does that make any sense? 

[lailasmum]

My eldest has been using Meister Cody. It's a new program by a German university for dyscalculia and it's made a difference after about a month of daily use. It's challenging for her though so she doesn't love it but it seems to be helping. I've noticed some basic things are beginning to become more understandable for her. Its meant for younger kids but I just selected the oldest age range. There's a weeks free trial and then there's a monthly membership. https://www.meistercody.com/en

Edited July 18, 2016 by lailasmum

[Kat w]

Sounds like a 2e kid to me :)

And yes absolutely , don't wait on Jim to memorize math facts, GP ahead and teach him in sequence the more complex problems.

Don't hold h back based on not knowing math facts.

 

My ds12 is alot like this and his last round of evals done at the university came back 2e.

 

Do you have a university around you anywhere that you can go to for the evals? They are literally a fraction of the cost.

 

I'm looking for something to help memorize math facts too. I've heard people on here talk of semple math. I made a post about it but so far noone has repiled that has used it.

Go to their website. To me it seems like the website is lacking info on their products bu it's probably just me. I'm not the handiest with electronics.

 

I think I'm just going to see if I can find it on Amazon used, or eBay, anywhere used and it i can't...bitethe bullet and buy it.

My son is visual and their tricks (mnemonics I think they refer to it as) could either help him or completely exacerbate him.

Oh, I'll have h look at the very few samples they offer n see how he responds.

Anyway. I'll be interested to see what people respond with.

 

Do not hold him back tho waiting on math facts. I give my boys a cheat sheet for facts, I'm considering teaching them to use the calculator for them. Maybe that will help. Who knows.

Tried everything I know to try and only fact ds12 can tell me is 1+1.

 

Thays SO awesome he can do all the things you described tho!

Def sounds 2e to me :)

Edited July 18, 2016 by Kat w

[Kat w]

Also, call your local school district perferrably your districted school directly . ask them to test him.

Not sure what they would offer for services at his age, mine quit with much of anything at 3 Rd grade and we had a host of diagnoses .

But valuable for testing and probably are some services they can provide him even as a homeschooler.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Kat w

[Rosie_0801]

My dd has dyscalculia and wouldn't learn arithmetic at all without CSMP. I'm not sure that the techniques that work for her would work for someone more severe though, from reading around the forum here. I haven't anyone else to test my theories though. :)

 

CSMP works for dd because it teaches in pictures first and her non-verbal intelligence is much higher than her verbal intelligence. Have a look at the 3rd grade entry supplement here: http://stern.buffalostate.edu/CSMPProgram/Primary%20Disk/PrimarySupplment.pdf 
The minicomputer lessons are awesome. They are brilliant for place value, provide a foundation for the concept of simplifying fractions and develop number sense by really highlighting the fact that numbers are just pieces of other numbers. 

 

There seem to be a lot of people with dyscalculia who can do higher maths, but not the arithmetic. I think it must be that they understand the arithmetic but can't do it. I don't see how they could do higher maths without understanding, even if they have to actually *do* the arithmetic on a calculator. 

 

But I have a 9 year old who is two years behind in maths, so I can't speak to what a 10 year old ought to be doing.

[PeterPan]

Well my ds is 7, soon to be 8, so he's a bit behind yours but with similar labels, just adding in some ADHD and ASD and apraxia for good measure.   :)  It's interesting that he likes LoF.  How is he doing those problems?  On his fingers?

 

Most people do two digit math mentally, and so to me I consider 2 digit math and estimation (reflecting an overall sense of place value and quantity) to be hills to die on.  Division, steps, that kind of thing, less important.  As you can say, a calculator can do them.  But if you can't figure out what time it will be in 3 hours or know whether the cashier shorted you or the car salesman screwed you due to lack of basic sense of quantity and estimating, you're screwed.  So with my ds I do a lot of estimating.  

 

When I say estimating, I mean like rounding and solving the problem.  Look at the car clock.  When people ask what time it is, they don't say 7:43.  They say "about a quarter till."  So then do lots of "about" problems.  About what time is it?  About how much money would I need to hand the cashier if the thing cost $7.43?  If I gave her $8 and it cost $7.43, about how much money would she give me back, like what kind of coins would I expect?  (2 quarters and something else) If I scored 85 and you scored 73, about how much more did I win than you?  Even just knowing who scored more can be tricky for him.  

 

So just a lot of that in life, real life use of things.  Not expecting precise answers but more an estimated, general sense so you can know if the person even ballparked it correctly.  

 

I'm not sure MUS is going to solve your problem.  I'll go look at that Meister Cody, as I haven't seen it.  Do you have lots of other kids you're teaching, or do you have time to work with him?  Ronit Bird has STELLAR stuff.  It's not a leveled, scripted curriculum, so you kind of have to get into it and let the subtlety and the applications and depth become apparent.  I would put him all the way back in her Dots ebook, from what you're saying.  If he does it fast, no biggee!  It's less than $10.  It's RICH.  I would sit down with him and do Dots and really mine it.  If you do it well and transfer all those skills to a flashcard/drill app, he should come out knowing all his single digit addition and subtraction.  It's DECEPTIVELY SIMPLE.  Adore.

 

Then her C-Rods book will get you through 2 digit and multi-digit add/subtr conceptually.  Once you get into the C-Rods book, bring in her print books too, because they have more games.  Her Resource book has incredible sudoku puzzles, etc.  Overcoming Difficulties with Math would be a good one for you.  They're pricy, but they're RICH.  She'll make one game and you're like NO WAY with all the things that start clicking in your dc's mind.  

 

But you're going to have to go back to go forward.  Right now he's still on his fingers because he's not visualizing.  So me, I would go to the Dots ebook, even if you only stay there a super short amount of time.  From there, you could play the games in her free Card Games ebook.  There's one, a Turnovers game, that really made subtraction click for my ds beautifully.  It made him conversant in both + subtraction but also with negative numbers!  I mean, think about that.  One game, skillfully developed, and your ds could have click for him both subtraction AND negative numbers.  That's what we did.  We played the game with the cards, then after a few weeks of that (he's young), I said hey could you write an equation for the cards you just laid out?  We whip out the whiteboard and write it.  Just one.  But lots of THOUGHT, kwim?  

 

If you like Life of Fred, I think you'll be fine with Ronit Bird.  

Edited July 18, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

Yes to getting evals, and I would do them sooner, rather than later. 

 

Yes to beginning algebra.  You're wanting Hands-On Equations.  Also http://www.learndifferently.com/2016/04/19/teaching-algebra-manipulatives/

[PeterPan]

Kat, I think I may have looked at Semple a while back.  I really don't know.  I get frustrated because some of the things that are recommended for people with SLDs turn out to be more geared toward people with ID.  Our kids don't have ID, kwim?  Like it's not really just about saying slow down the pace, teach the steps more slowly.  Dyscalculia needs more analysis, more thought, more ways to help them figure out what was happening there and to make the numbers and the visuals connect and MEAN something.  My ds had a huge MEANING gap.  

 

Someone clued me in (well a friend and later a psych), that you can be math GIFTED and have a math DISABILITY.  And our diagnosing psych warned me sternly about that.  He says he has a math gift, teach him like it.  So we THINK with our math.  We think like we're gifted.  I try to take simple concepts as far as they can go.  There's a lot of repetition in elementary math, and they're always extending concepts.  Like ok, the Ronit Bird Dots ebook covers number sense and let's you work on basic addition.  Doesn't seem swanky.  But a 6th grader doing basic addition would be doing it in the CONTEXT of fractions!  So get out some measuring cups and extend it, kwim?  I took out a game that had lots of pieces and we graphed probabilities of it.  Yes we work on simple concepts, but we can EXTEND them and apply them in interesting ways.  We can graph data.  We can ask questions.  And it doesn't have to be involved or in the context of something.  Just any life excuse to say hey could we graph that?  

 

I did coordinate graphing art with my ds for several months for math this year.  Teacher Created Resources has cool pages for this.  Actually, I really like some of that math at TCR.  It's not Ronit Bird, but some of their stuff hits good things.  I printed ebooks for our ABA tutor to use with him.  He gets to do things I've taught him in new contexts.  I'll push the level so they're working collaboratively, working on social skills.  It's good stuff.  

Daily Warm-Ups: Problem Solving Math Grade 3 - TCR3577 « Products | Teacher Created Resources  Here's one like we're doing.  We're doing the 2nd gr book of it, but they have more levels.  I like a lot of their stuff, because it particularly makes you think.  Multi-step, really having to problem solve.  So it's emphasizing something they might be good at.  I don't want all his math to be one way or another, like just ALL written math or all hard/dreary.  I like variety in the mix, so some Ronit Bird, some worksheets to push a little, some GEMS or other units, some living math.  Mix it up.

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Here's one we did

 

Holiday Graph Art

 

and here's a more sophisticated version.

 

Coordinate Graphing

 

If something is appropriate for him but a little young, print it smaller. My ds finally figured out the patterns to the coloring and started taking shortcuts.  But that's the POINT, kwim?  Like for him, he was missing the patterns.  He couldn't figure out that A1 and A2 were related, kwim?  That's WHY we were doing it.   ;)

 

We're also using books from their Daily Warm-ups Math series.  https://www.teachercreated.com/products/search-results.php?q=daily+warm-ups+math

They're not flashy, but they're just a little bit of practice doing in writing, on paper, things we've been doing orally and on a whiteboard.  And I feel a little better that we're going through something more standard/sequential.

 

It's a problem, because if I bog us down in a really good printed, full curriculum, we're not doing this more in-depth work he needs.  That's why I'm using these more trim supplements.  That might be a mistake, but I'm just saying it's what we're doing.  I notice he needs lots of help to understand the LANGUAGE of the math, to connect what he can do with numbers to what the word problem means.  So even things like "6 of" something just really evaded him.  So the more ways he sees math language the better.

Edited July 18, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[geodob]

Hi Heatdodge, you wrote that he does 'counting on his fingers'.

With Dyscalculia, it can be helpful to count 'with' fingers, rather than 'on'?

 

Counting 'with fingers', is a different process, which you could simply try?

Form a fist with left hand, and then extend your little finger to represent 1.

Then extend the next finger alongside it, so that form a 'group of 2 fingers'.

 

The next finger can then extended alongside them, to form a 'group of 3'.

Then the last finger, to form a 'group of 4'.

 

The important difference between counting 'on' and 'with'?

Is that with 'on', 2 becomes the name of the finger next to the finger called 1.

Their is no sense of 2 as a group.

But with 2 fingers extended, they can be felt as a group of 2.

 

Where fingers can be 'added or substracted', to change the size of the group.

 

This can be used to count up to 4, and then the fingers are retracted to form a fist again, and the 'thumb is extended to represent a group of 5.

With the thumb representing 5, the fingers can be used again, to count up to 9.

 

10 is carried over to the right hand.

 

With Dyscalculia, the issue is not with 'learning numbers' ? But with 'concieving of different sized groups, that are represented with numbers'.

[PeterPan]

We did some of geodob's soroban counting early on, and it's pretty cool!  If he's going to count on his fingers, yes, it's the way to go.  And when we began RB Dots, I would whip it out as another tool.  We did a countdown to Christmas one year, counting up to the number of days every day.  He doesn't use it *now* but it was good.

 

I'd definitely get him into the Ronit Bird stuff.  She has a website with free things, and her ebooks (on iTunes) are inexpensive.  And she has a really good Facebook page too where she posts videos, etc.!  Definitely find her on FB.  You can connect through her website.Ronit Bird - Specialist in Dyscalculia and Arithmetic Difficulties

Edited July 18, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Rosie_0801]

Yes to beginning algebra.  You're wanting Hands-On Equations.  Also http://www.learndifferently.com/2016/04/19/teaching-algebra-manipulatives/

 

Agreed. I've just started using that with my tutored student and think it will work very nicely for dd when the time comes.

[Storygirl]

Your public school is required by federal law to evaluate ALL students who live in their district for free, even if they are homeschoolers. Because you plan to put him in school eventually, it would actually be ideal to start with your school district, because that way they will already have him in their system as a child with LD.

 

That makes a huge difference when you are enrolling in the school for the first time. Many schools want to delay evaluating homeschoolers when they first enroll in the school district, because they want to make sure that the troubles are not due to lack of instruction or just the child needing to adjust to the newness of being in the classroom. So it causes delays in getting an IEP in place. (This happened to us, even though the principal had agreed before we enrolled that my kids should be evaluated, and it was infuriating).

 

In some states and districts, homeschoolers can even have an IEP, which would be ideal, because it would be in place on his first day of school. In other states, schools evaluate but do not write IEPs for homeschoolers. You will have to research your area.

 

If you want tips on using the schools for evaluations, people on the forums can give you a lot of advice, so just ask.

 

My other point is that you do want to find a way to move forward in math while also remediating the dyscalculia. This is what they do in school, by the way. They won't hold the child back and have him do first grade math in fourth grade (for example). They would be in the fourth grade class and then have extra help with the basics they struggle with, along with modifications and accommodations that allow them to access their grade-level math.

 

Edited July 18, 2016 by Storygirl

[PeterPan]

Story is SO spot-on with the IEP stuff!  I'll nuance that a bit.  In our IEP the goals for his math are where he is at for instruction.  So my ds, in our school district, would not do grade level math.  His goals are for where he is at and he would receive only specialized instruction, not grade level math.  At least that's what they're telling me. But that's just differences in kids.  

 

What I was suggesting is that *if you're going to do Ronit Bird* where the goal is explicitly to go back and fill in holes, that you not dawdle but extend skills into grade level material.  So you're doing Dots, but take it up as far as you can, applying it to lots and lots of areas.  So it's sort of horizontal instruction.

Edited July 18, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[TheReader]

Lots of good info in this thread! I'm taking away some things to add to our routine, but also thought I'd share some things we do that help, that I haven't seen mentioned yet. 

 

When I had my youngest evaluated (he was 7.5 yrs old then, is 11.5 yrs now), the evaluater wrote an IEP-type list for us and included various accommodations to use -- calculator that shows the full problem, rather than erasing each number as you enter the next, was one of the things suggested. If he has the concept of addition/subtraction down (knows what it means when he sees the + sign, or the - sign, the division or multiplication sign, etc.), go ahead and have him use the calculator either to perform or to check his answers. It's an accommodation he'd likely be allowed in school on his IEP, so go for it. 

 

Other things were to allow a number line and encourage him to use it, and we do. We also have a simple 10x10 abacus and he uses that often, for all sorts of problems. Addition, subtraction, and even single digit multiplication, as well as some place value work. This really helps him visualize the groups of numbers, turning it into something concrete instead of abstract. He also uses Cuisenaire rods, and we've used those for all kinds of things, including fractions. He knows the number names of each rod (he has a set he plays with freely, and a set for math time), so for fractions we will make 12 (using a 10 and a 2), and then below it make halves (2 six rods), thirds (3 four rods), quarters (4 three rods), etc. Whenever he has a problem such as "what is 3/4ths of ____" we can pull out the rods, make the "whole" whatever number is in the blank, and then use the denominator to tell us how many rods to put below, and then the numerator to know how many of those rods to get the answer. So if it's 3/4ths of 16, we put a 10 and a 6 together, then put the 4 four rods below it (to split it into 1/4ths), and then count by 4s to determine how much 3/4ths of 16 is. Of course we use the rods for other stuff too, but just seeing the relationship really helps. 

 

We use Miquon math, although I don't use the teacher guide/lab book, we just go through the workbooks in order. We started it about 3 yrs ago and he's on the last book now, and I'm not sure yet where to go from here, but it's been helpful in using his strengths in math (he understands math well, but doesn't retain facts, much like what you described) and translating what he doesn't get into what he does get; it is so free-form that he can (and we do) do a problem in several ways to really cement it before moving on. And it presents each concept in several ways, usually in the same page or couple of pages, which really helps my son -- one of his big struggles is that he often can answer a problem going one direction but not the other (so, for ex, he can tell you easily 4x5=___, and even ___x5=20, but if he sees 4x___=20 he might struggle to come up with the answer. Miquon often puts all 3 versions on the same page, so he's getting the group of them and it helps, a lot. When it doesn't, I do anyway. 

 

The finger counting someone mentioned, so he's seeing/feeling the groups of fingers is a good idea, too; anything to get him realizing and visualizing and seeing that number = groups of things, not just random name. 

 

One last tip from our IEP type report -- my son has trouble switching from problems presented horizontally to vertically, so on any written work, we were told to keep the problems on a single page all the same format. Not only use one, ever, but within each page it's best to have just the one format. Then the next page can be the other format, so he understands both, but the switching was hard so we were told to limit that. Mostly we do our math orally, but I do have him complete the problems sometimes (and he sits next to me and often scans and reads the problems ahead of me, so he's seeing the problems, just not writing his answers down, I am writing for him most days). If your son does have any dysgraphia or dyslexia with the dyscalculia, taking the writing out of the equation might also help by letting his brain focus on just the math. Let him see the problem, but you do the writing for him, at least at first. As he gains confidence/fluency in the problems you're working, then start having him write those out/write those answers. But especially on new concepts, if you can do the writing it will help some. Otherwise his brain is split working on the reading of the problem (w/dyslexia), the writing of the answer (w/dysgraphia), AND the figuring of the answer (w/dyscalculia); if you can remove the other 2, still show him the written problem and written answer but read them outloud to him and write the answer for him when he gives it, his full brain power can go to the figuring instead of first the decoding, then the figuring, then remembering the answer while he decodes how to write it down. 

 

Hope some of this helps. :) 

[OneStepAtATime]

Everyone is spot on with their feedback, OP, especially regarding having a strength AND a weakness or LD in math.  

 

My husband is living proof of this.  He is very much like your son.  He still counts on his fingers (guess I need to show him geodob's suggestion :) ) and has never memorized all of his multiplication tables and sometimes messes up even long division BUT...he has a very strong grasp of higher level math concepts, is great with many areas of engineering and even the medical sciences and is a successful engineer highly regarded in his field.  Most people who work with him have no idea that he struggled terribly in school in MANY areas including with basic math.  He is also dyslexic and dysgraphic and possibly ADD.  He wasn't expected to graduate High School because the school system only focused on his weaknesses, never his strengths.  Those are areas of weakness but on the flip side of that neurological coin he has amazing gifts as well.  It means that while many of his coworkers did great in school and have impressive degrees it is DH that is running things and coming up with the brilliant engineering ideas.  I don't say that to brag.  I say that because I want you to see that the issues are the flip side of the same coin.  Work with your child on his weak areas but absolutely FEED THOSE STRENGTHS in any way that you can.  

 

I love the suggestions in this thread.  I would also add that you might consider Beast Academy added into the mix if you did it together and scaffolded his weak areas.  Start with 3A, and move slowly.  Do it for "fun" math on the side maybe once or twice a week while you work through Ronit Bird ebooks and maybe CSMP.  It is much more conceptual and OhE and others are right, these kids need to see meaning in the math.  AoPS Pre-Algebra (with scaffolding) may also be a good fit further down the road.

[Heathermomster]

My DS tests 2e with the maths/reading/handwriting SLDs.  Son's math breakdown occurred during multiplication, so I turned to the following materials:  How the Brain Learns Mathematics by Sousa, Overcoming Difficulty with Number by Ronit Bird, James Tanton, and manipulatives.  My favorite manipulatives are MUS blocks, dominoes, and Hands-on Equations materials.  MUS blocks are awesome because you can flip a block over to the hollow side and instantly know that the number is negative.  With manipulatives, the student can literally see the math problem in its concrete form.

 

With DS, I have never found the perfect curriculum, so I usually select a text book and teach through it using the methods taught by Ronit Bird and James Tanton.  We use a dry erase board and metric graph paper.  My kids practice their math facts using the 10-key pad and the MUS online facts generator with the timer turned off.  Flash cards work for math facts but only after the concept is understood.  DS used a laminated math facts card and a TI-15 calculator during logic stage to check his fraction work.  For standardized testing, he was allowed a basic 4 function calculator.  My son needs to be taught to mastery and then needs an opportunity to revisit the work periodically;otherwise, he forgets it.  We also use math mnemonics for procedure. 

 

Maybe get the np testing now and start accommodating the standardized testing.  With a record of accommodated testing and an up to date NP report, DS easily qualified for extended test taking time on the ACT.  Good luck!

Edited July 18, 2016 by Heathermomster

[Kat w]

Wow! Lots of good stuff here.

I bookmarked this post and screenshptted pics to go back and easily read later too.

 

Onestep, love that :)

I was thinking the same thing.

What does it really matter if he is an adult who needs a calculator to add or multiy? We all have smart phones with calculators on them.

Same with spelling. I don't get super hung up on spelling (except as it applies to be able to read the word) BC, well all always have spellcheck. ..and so on. And who knows? Maybe after many years th calculator will help him start to commit them to memory.

 

And, this is where I have always been completely mind blown.

Like to the point of sometimes I have to quit schooling for the day even if he wants to keep going.

 

HE CAN DO BEAST! ...um.....*shakes head vigorously*....WHAT???? ..HUH???

Mindblown. Now, I have to read it to him but, the lil bugar can do it. Heck, some of that they propose to do in a certain way I myself go...huh?

Him? He starts working out the problem. ..again...WHAT???lol

 

I never ver for this before our last eval results came back and this round really blew my mind.

I knew there is 2e, I guess I didn't think through what 2e really looks like. And apply.

 

OhE mentioned the graphs and probability . ...lil bugar eatsthat stuff uo too. Like...flies they it does it for fun!!! ...HUH???? HAHA.

HE does Singapore math level 4 which would be 5 th grade graphs. And really all if it. We went back to 1b and filled in holes. He devoured it tho. And quickly got to grade level.

He's not on grade level in anything lol.

 

I was so flabbergasted and kept thinking. ...what am I missing???? Cuz, I promise you if I bring him inside right now and ask him what 2+2 is...promise...he won't know. Hell guess and guess wring , never right. I mean literally 2+2. So, how is it....he dkes beast, Singapore. Was min blown.

I knew he heyper excelled at alot. I thought it was , well, I read an article long while bck that said kids in the spectrum will hyper excel in some areas as kind of a compensation of their weak areas. Not worded exactly that way but hopefully it makes sense.

 

I never ever expected 2e to come back. I think that's harder lol

Idk maybe not...jus seems harder right now.

 

Reading, this has blown my min too. We have bju reading 3 . back before I realized he knew not one pheomensnsbshs thingy lol. Dunno how to spell it you know what I mean tho. Phonics! Lol.

But, will ready a word stupid redic like...idk off top of my head...supercalifragilexealidosiuos haha.

Ridiculously long hard words and he's never seen them before and not been taught as a sight word ( he wouldn't have remembered it anyway) uet, still can't read the word "do" . not kidding . he can't read that word! ..flabbergasted .

He in the setting of phonics still cannot quickly or fluently read...Ben. Or hat. Not...kiddin.

Again, HUH????

Now,...he can't always do that and certainly not enough times to actually read a 3 Rd fr level book...but you give him a sentence with a mix of big words and phonics basic words. He will not b able to read a single thing with a vowell blen or constant blend...but can read a super hard word that has prefixes or suffixes added to it . ...and um. He doesn't know his suffixes and prefixes. *shakes head again*

 

So. I'm going to go have a small mommy meltdown lol. And come back later.

Mind.blown.

:) is it too early for wine!!! Haha

[Kat w]

OhE. Gonna go to the RB website late too.

10 bucks?? Can't beat that :)

[PeterPan]

Kat, check your ds' vocab. Might be driving up what he reads beyond what he can decode. 

[PeterPan]

You know what they say about moms and autism...  Don't drink, because you might end up doing it too much!  Like not that you would, but I read that online (in the context of a discussion of alcoholism and parenting disabilities), and I was like dude, someone is finally admitting publicly how exasperating it is!  If you were given to drink, it would really make you drink!  But you know like chocolate or whatever your thing is, you so have to back off, take a deep breath, calm down, lol...

 

Ds is Horton today and we're supposed to be going to art.  He's in grey fleece to be an elephant, and it's, um, like 85 out.  Whatever.

[Kat w]

Oh no no. I know. If only . alcohol messes w my stomach. I have one now and again. But, more than that and my body says...hey, uh huh lol.

 

So, in the vocsb. Whatchya mean?

[Kat w]

....baha....and? Did I read thst right?

Hey maybe I did have a glass of wine n forgot. ....did u say y'all are going out today in a grey bunny suit?? Baha. In....85° weather?

 

Eh? :)

[Kat w]

Oh. Grey elephant.

Perfect! Take a pink pillow and that is the inside of the ear and...your listening so good you have your ear to the ground!!!

[Kat w]

Aka:

Mom closes eyes fir 2 seconds :)

Yay

[Kat w]

....sounds legit o me ;)

[Kat w]

Heardodge, if your thinking about MUS for math facts, I don't know that it would help with that. It helped us with number sense and place value which we needed .

We used mus to intro the lesson for Singapore and beast.

I havent really done it much lately and they've asked for it. He likes the man in the videos:)

I'm sure I'll use it again. I have a few different levels.

 

But KHAN . try Khan academy online. My boys love it and so do I. It tracks their progress for you and sends emails.

I wish they would let homeschoolers print. I'd love to have it for their portfolios.

I have become a REALLY big fan of taking pics of things or screenshotting. I'm gonna get the reports/ progress sheets developed tho and put that in their portfolios.

 

Charlotte Mason math. I looked at that online yesterday. I might get that cuz it has stores. Pet store , sport store. We need more store practice. We have bought and sold and ~tried~ to make change lol, with just about all the books and NIC nacs in our house .

And Im pretty sure it's a CD too. On a computer screen goes well for us. DS 12 , we position the screen so it's not glaring right at him and he prefers to do it at night before bedtime in the dark.

 

We also play the metronome at bedtime. He moves his body little bit to the beat as he's going to sleep and it sootjs him, alot.

 

When my big kids were little I read a study about the correlation to music ( esp classical) and math, improving retention etc. We can't do it at same time so he dies it after Khan and releivea his anxiety and calms him.

 

He has anxiety esp. At bedtime so I put em to bed 30 mins earlier than I normally would and give them an extra 15-30 mins into "bedtime" lol.they do khan then listen to audio book on librox. ( next day we talk bout it to check comprehension . and do ELTL). We usually have to breakdown the audio slowly bit that's not math.

 

Letting Kahn "cut into bedtime" or perceived delaying going to sleep . they want to do it and Khan has explation videos to watch first then they do the digital practice sheet.

This way they aren't having to write the numbers etc and while they are looking for the number on key board they are saying it to themselves to try to remember it as they look. ( helps with visualizing and saying it at Sam time helps)

 

You're probably already with Khan. I recommend it with math issues like our guys. Kind of a forced visualizing and saying.

 

Every little bit helps and I just really love Khan BC Its one that's not labor intensive for mom. One of the only independent or semi Independent.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Kat w

[MistyMountain]

My eldest has been using Meister Cody. It's a new program by a German university for dyscalculia and it's made a difference after about a month of daily use. It's challenging for her though so she doesn't love it but it seems to be helping. I've noticed some basic things are beginning to become more understandable for her. Its meant for younger kids but I just selected the oldest age range. There's a weeks free trial and then there's a monthly membership. https://www.meistercody.com/en

 

I am trying the free trial but can you explain more what kind of things it works on and how you are seeing improvements? How long do you plan on using it? Can you have 2 kids do it for the monthly price? My oldest especially needs some help and math mammoth is not helping as much as I hoped it would. 

[Heatdodge]

Wow, thanks everyone!  I was feeling pretty overwhelmed with all the info you guys have given me, and wrote a really long response which I just accidentally erased!!  So, just the bullet points I guess - I hadn't thought to do the eval with our public school as we are in an atrocious district with a very poorly rated school.  I have already worked with them getting an IEP for my DS2's speech issues, and it was less than helpful (our speech therapist did not seem to speak English as her first language, and since the only thing they worked on was his sounds and clarifying them, that was hard for him when she didn't make her sounds like typical standard English).  I've just had in the back of my mind that if we want helpful help, we'll need to pay for it.  But I hadn't considered taking him to a university - I'll look into that.  What department would I contact?

 

I looked into Ronit Bird last year, but it seemed like the books were for me to read and learn how to teach differently, and the ebooks you needed an e-reader or newer iPad and we only have a first gen iPad.  Am I wrong about that?  **I'll be honest, I'm currently in a position where I really need a script and everything laid out for me.  I have a little too much going on this year to figure out a new curriculum/style/whatever and creatively implement it.**  Also, when I hear "4 hours a day" I just want to disappear into a hole!  We are currently working with a local Brain Training place (they have programs that utilize the idea of neuroplasticity to make new pathways in the brain...you are probably all more than familiar with all that, but it's been new to me!) and we are using the Integrated Listening System for (ideally) an hour a day, plus their online video game style Fast ForWord which takes 30 min.  The fights involved in getting him to do just that, take everything I've got.  I can't imagine trying to do more hours per day :/  He has some ODD tendencies (only toward me and hubby) and he doesn't believe there is anything different (or "wrong" as he says although I keep correcting him) with him and that the only reason he is behind grade level is because I'm not stringent enough with his lessons (if only that meant he was volunteering to do more school work!!).  So he feels like Brain Training is unnecessary and that it's only for kids on the spectrum, and people will judge him, and everything about it is so stupid and easy (it IS very repetitive) and he has put the full force of his hatred against it...  So it's hard to tell how much good it will do, but I feel like it's so important.

 

I wanted to thank OneStepAtATime for giving her husband's story.  It was really helpful and uplifting to hear how successful your hubby is, because of course I started out thinking "this child is brilliant!" and then as we struggled so much to read, and soooo much with math, I thought "he'll never be able to get a career that lives up to his potential because we can't get past these early blocks."  I'm grateful to know that others have succeeded (and with little to no help even!).

 

I did want to address the counting on vs counting with fingers thing.  I FEEL like I already make that distinction, but maybe I don't.  I will have to listen to myself the next time we sit down to math.  If he counts in his head, he is nearly always wrong.  I've tried to get him to use hatch marks or the abacus because anything over 10 he still often gets wrong with fingers (he doesn't use them in order like what was described, and after 6 years of correcting him I've given up).  I've hoped that the abacus would give a better visual for counting, but although he can count by tens, he counts by ones when using the abacus and even though he can tell you a line has 10, he can't start counting from 10 - he counts by ones till he gets to the end of the row (and doesn't have an aha moment where he remembers, yeah, this is a set of ten).

 

And yes, I was only hoping MathUSee would help with number sense and place value!  I got Big Brains "Timez Attacks" which is a high end looking video game that drills math facts (+, -, /, and x).  I had high hopes for it, but so far he doesn't seem to have memorized anything and I think is getting frustrated that he can't move on to the next levels.  My sister, who is dylexic, said she was never able to memorize any math facts (and she was homeschooled by our elementary teacher mom, and then had an IEP at public school for middle and high).

 

Anyway thanks so much everyone!  I'm trying not to freak out from overwhelm!!

[Kat w]

Try looking at Khan online. You the parent really doesn't do much. I love it :)))

 

I hate it when I warase on accident. So annoying and it's always on a lo g one :)

 

I called the main # I got from Google and transferred to ppl n vm til I got the right Dept.

 

I livE next to UF . they have facilities and staff to accommodate.

They refer out for therapies or do them there. Or a satellite station.

Yes it can be very overwhelming sorry. It gets better. I haven't read all of what I've learned today too. I bookmarked the post and screenshptted pis and I'll o back and read later when I can. It helps that way for me.

 

And I have to have scripted right now too. Not to say I will follow it eaxtly to the T. but as close as we can.

 

It's summer. Enjoy it. Play. Nap haha :) . jus have fun. They will be a lil older when you start . I've had a few months or even 6 weeks make a big deal. They mature more and have had time to process.

 

I as mom have to process too :)) we all do.

 

Try to grab some sunshine, helps up feel better and cime back when you feel ready more refreshed.

:)

[Kat w]

Ha-ha. Mus. Yep. You got the right program then! :) I really like it for that.

 

Yea, sorry. Don't freak out. You guys will be great. Have fun :)

[lailasmum]

I am trying the free trial but can you explain more what kind of things it works on and how you are seeing improvements? How long do you plan on using it? Can you have 2 kids do it for the monthly price? My oldest especially needs some help and math mammoth is not helping as much as I hoped it would.

It's set up like a game as you've probably figured out. I only use one child but it seems like you can add multiple kids. Don't forget to do the assesment.

 

I'm seeing improvements in her speed and confidence. She seems to be able to add and subtract more accurately. Basic maths facts and just the whole relationships between number make more sense to her and are more quickly acessible to her plus She's got more of a sense of when she's got something wrong. She's improved on knowing the process to go through when presented with problems in the maths curriculum we use. She's a very low performer in maths though so the improvements probably seem quite big to me when they're relatively small. I don't expect her to ever reach a massively high level, just be functional in life.

 

I don't know how long we'll keep on using it, I've noticed the content has kicked up a notch and covering slightly different things the past 10 days or so so I imagine it might be something we do for a few more months at least.

 

There's quite a lot on the Meister Cody site about the research that went into creating the program so that's could be worth a read if you haven't found it.

Edited July 19, 2016 by lailasmum

[PeterPan]

Wow, thanks everyone!  I was feeling pretty overwhelmed with all the info you guys have given me, and wrote a really long response which I just accidentally erased!!  So, just the bullet points I guess - I hadn't thought to do the eval with our public school as we are in an atrocious district with a very poorly rated school.  I have already worked with them getting an IEP for my DS2's speech issues, and it was less than helpful (our speech therapist did not seem to speak English as her first language, and since the only thing they worked on was his sounds and clarifying them, that was hard for him when she didn't make her sounds like typical standard English).  I've just had in the back of my mind that if we want helpful help, we'll need to pay for it.  But I hadn't considered taking him to a university - I'll look into that.  What department would I contact?

 

I looked into Ronit Bird last year, but it seemed like the books were for me to read and learn how to teach differently, and the ebooks you needed an e-reader or newer iPad and we only have a first gen iPad.  Am I wrong about that?  **I'll be honest, I'm currently in a position where I really need a script and everything laid out for me.  I have a little too much going on this year to figure out a new curriculum/style/whatever and creatively implement it.**  Also, when I hear "4 hours a day" I just want to disappear into a hole!  We are currently working with a local Brain Training place (they have programs that utilize the idea of neuroplasticity to make new pathways in the brain...you are probably all more than familiar with all that, but it's been new to me!) and we are using the Integrated Listening System for (ideally) an hour a day, plus their online video game style Fast ForWord which takes 30 min.  The fights involved in getting him to do just that, take everything I've got.  I can't imagine trying to do more hours per day :/  He has some ODD tendencies (only toward me and hubby) and he doesn't believe there is anything different (or "wrong" as he says although I keep correcting him) with him and that the only reason he is behind grade level is because I'm not stringent enough with his lessons (if only that meant he was volunteering to do more school work!!).  So he feels like Brain Training is unnecessary and that it's only for kids on the spectrum, and people will judge him, and everything about it is so stupid and easy (it IS very repetitive) and he has put the full force of his hatred against it...  So it's hard to tell how much good it will do, but I feel like it's so important.

 

 

You are correct that the ebooks are for ipad or iphone.  What you might try, since it would only be for a brief time, is seeing if someone would let you use theirs.  Like maybe you have a MIL with a large iphone or ipad mini or something?  My ipad 3 works the books fine.  Maybe you know someone and could go once a week and read the next chapter, learn the games, and then go home and do it?  That would be a way.

 

The school has all the tools, and you might be surprised to find that sometimes poorer districts are more willing to help because they see a lot more problems and don't have the cultural pressure not to diagnose.  

 

When your ds is bringing up spectrum, are you saying he has a spectrum diagnosis (or should) or that he only associates the place with spectrum?  If ASD is suspected or has been diagnosed, that opens up a lot more options.  You could get your state medicaid to cover services.  My ds is getting ABA in the home, including using ABA tutors.  I think, and this is just me, considering I'm sort of right there with you but with a younger dc, that the *behavior* you're describing is MUCH more concerning than whether he can do the math or not.  That math issue might not be ideal, but it won't keep him from getting a job, having meaningful relationships, etc.  That attitude and the social thinking deficits it's showing and the behavior stuff will affect his ability to hold a job.  Social skills are THE NUMBER ONE determiner of ability to hold a job.  Not math skills.

 

It's not too late to bring in ABA, and in fact that's what I'd be wanting.  I'd be wanting some HELP on those things.  There are materials available now, like the stuff from SocialThinking.com that weren't even available when he was a baby.  It's not too late to get that help, and it might make a LOT go better.

 

So I would think in terms of:

 

-evals to get accurate, complete explanations

-to get the funding through insurance or state disability scholarships, etc.

-to bring in services to get him back on track.

 

He may have SLDs or anxiety.  He may have some exceptional strengths and incredible weaknesses.  It's definitely time to get explanations so he can be given helpful therapy.  

 

What does he qualify for with your state medicaid, etc.?  If spectrum is on the table, I'll bet they'd pay for a full, proper psych eval at a children's hospital.  I'm not saying a children's hospital is the only way to go.  I've never done one.  I'm just saying see what you can get funded, because right now it sounds like you're at a tipping point.  When he was little, the behaviors, the challenges might have seemed sort of appropriate.  Now he's going into junior high age, and he's going to need to transition, to think long-term about how this pans out.  

 

Your county board of disabilities may be able to help connect you with resources.  

[Storygirl]

I'm sorry your school was less than satisfactory when you worked with them for evaluations the last time.

 

BUT I still would really encourage you to use them. You will not be relying on them to provide services, but just to run the evaluations and start the paper trail. Believe me, you will want to have that in place before you enroll in any school, private or public. You can always take the results you get from the school and pursue additional private evaluations if you feel they didn't answer all of your questions. The benefit of that is that the private psych would not have to rerun the tests that were already completed, so it will save you some money.

 

If you are not pleased with your public school, then I assume when you talk about putting him in school in the future, you are referring to a private school? Do you have one in your area that works with students with learning disabilities? It is hard to find that around here. Many private schools will refuse to admit atypical learners. Or they will admit but do not provide the necessary accommodations and remediation. 

 

I live in a large city (state capital), and we have found only TWO private schools that will accept students with IEPs (not counting the dyslexia and autism schools, which serve only certain students). My kids go to one of them, but it only goes through eighth grade. The other school goes through 12, but they are not accepting students with SLD right now, because they have as many as their intervention staff can handle. They turned away a dozen families for next year.

 

So if you think you will do private school, and you haven't looked into it yet, you might start researching. Touch base with the school personnel of any school you may be interested in, even if it is a year or more before you would enroll, because once they know your family, they may be more likely to choose your family out of their list of possible applicants.

 

Having the evaluations from the public school in hand before enrolling in any school will be really advantageous. We waited until our kids were enrolled (in a private school that has intervention staff) to start evaluating for IEPs, and it would have been way better to have them in place beforehand. We lost a semester of getting proper services, and my neighbors lost a year, because of the length of time it take the school system to conduct the evaluation process and write the IEP. To start him off in school with all of the help he needs in place from day one, do the evaluations through the public school while you are still homeschooling.

 

I wouldn't advise putting him in a private school that will not provide IEP accommodations, unless his needs are minor and he needs minimal help (which does not sound like it is the case). If he has dyslexia, you will want a school that has OG tutoring, unless you plan to provide that privately.

 

That's a lot of unasked for advice. But it's what I wish someone had told me two years ago.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Storygirl

[kbutton]

With manipulatives, the student can literally see the math problem in its concrete form.

 

Heather, are you the one that linked to this math book? It's very visual.

 

Creative Publication's Algebra: http://www.mathedpage.org/attc/attc-nosearch.pdf 

 

For manipulatives, I bought a whole set of Bosse algebra tiles from Nasco, and I bought guides that will go through Algebra II to go with them. I think they will be reinforcement for my older one and more instructional with my younger one. They appear to be very compatible with that google books curriculum listed above. https://www.enasco.com/product/TB24569T 

 

(OP, my kids don't have dyscalculia, but I peek in on these threads now and then for good math ideas since they both have their quirks with math.)

[Heathermomster]

Heather, are you the one that linked to this math book? It's very visual.

 

Creative Publication's Algebra: http://www.mathedpage.org/attc/attc-nosearch.pdf 

 

For manipulatives, I bought a whole set of Bosse algebra tiles from Nasco, and I bought guides that will go through Algebra II to go with them. I think they will be reinforcement for my older one and more instructional with my younger one. They appear to be very compatible with that google books curriculum listed above. https://www.enasco.com/product/TB24569T 

 

(OP, my kids don't have dyscalculia, but I peek in on these threads now and then for good math ideas since they both have their quirks with math.)

Yes..It was recommended to me by someone on the High School Board.  The tiles work very well with Tanton's Galley Method for factoring and multiplication.  Tanton's info picks up where RB leaves off.  

[Kat w]

Op, storygirl is right. I would pursue testing with them.

I know how discrouaging it can be and flat out is sometimes esp. With the experience you've had. Not all are great about it.

 

She's right tho, you don't have to go through the Hassel of seeking services from them but it's a "free" ( not rreally BC our tax dollars pay for it) avenue to get them tested and have kind of feel for what's going on.

 

I agree with op on feeling how futile it may be/seem given their lackadaisical attitude

 

And honestly, the PS here missed alot with my boys but what they did diagnose was correct and gave us those things to work on until we went to the university.

 

The university has been by far the most comprehensive evals we've had including what was done privately when they were younger. But, they were younger too, too young for some of the testings .

 

I know it's frustrating and upsetting .

 

I walked into our PS the day after his 3rd birthday and was basically like, ...hi, were here and ready lol.

Seriously, I just showed up and they had no choice but to get the ball rolling.

[Kat w]

Wow! I looked at and read the research part of MC/Cody math.

 

Just wow. I am going to do that. My boys would love it.

 

Thank you so much for the link.

I'm so excited .

We are tying to free space on tablets and a laptop. That is so much work :/

[PeterPan]

The only thing I'd add is that with dyscalculia *plus* ASD, you need to remember to generalize the concepts and get them to apply to more areas.  You could literally end up with a dc who can do the math in that app and no where else!  So whatever skills he gets there you need to bridge over to real life and other manipulatives and other programs...

[Kat w]

Yes OhE,

You're so right. It took me awhile to understand they weren't able to carry over to other areas.

 

Thank you for the reminder. Thsts a big issue for us with math. They learn how to do it in 1 realm and totally clueless like they've never seen it before in other areas . which is true actually cuz they haven't seen it in the other areas.

Boy how labor intensive when I say it outloud ( type it out loud lol)

 

No wonder I'm tired!! Ha-ha.

There's where so much of the work cones in. Fir every single concept learned I have to the go laterally to ..ugh...every...other...aspect of life. It's Greek to them when I try to carry over to another situation.

 

Singapore has helped alot with teaching/training moving laterally in their heads but. So much more work to be done.

 

Then, have to practice practice practice every single other area too.

K. I'm making myself tired thinking about it lol.

 

I love that about the boards tho. Accountability and can work it out in my head as I type it.

Kinda like virtual brainstorming.

Thanks so much for that ladies. Helps this mama a ton.

 

Side note: part of it really is training mom too. To think the way they do. The carry over part and never assume they'll be able to do that in a different area.

Thanks OhE . :)

[Kat w]

We do what The Reader does too.

 

I read the directions to them and write out some of it too.

 

She makes a hugely important point there. Some of the stuggle is going to be the dyslexia and dyscalcula. Take those out the equation and you can get down to business of the matter at hand.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Kat w

[Heatdodge]

Ok guys - PS eval it is!  Would they administer an IQ test as part of that (the woman I was looking into does)?  Yes, we would send him to a private school when/if he attends traditional school.  People literally move out of this school district when their kids turn 5!  OhElizabeth, he is not on the spectrum.  I have worked with children who are and know what to look for, and he doesn't display anything leading me (or any of the teachers and OTs in our family to think so).  But we have friends with kids on the spectrum and he has had enough interaction with them to believe that it is not something he would want other people to assume he has (that they would assume it based on him going to the Brain Training place.  This is all just his perception).  His social skills are impeccable outside of the home.  No one believes me when I've mentioned ODD, which is why I call it "tendencies." I'm not sure he would be diagnosed with it because he is ALWAYS compliant and helpful with other authority figures.  He makes friends everywhere he goes and is generally the teachers favorite (I'm told he is very good with reining other kids in when their behavior gets out of control and redirecting them toward the lesson).  And he CAN be this way at home - it is just that that is the exception rather than the rule.  In general, he wants everything to be his idea, does not want to be told what to do, is very contrarion, believes he knows more than us (so he doesn't "trust" us to know he is wrong about something), and digs his heels in.  He was the kind of baby that would never have responded to cry it out (not that I would have tried), he's the type that would have cried till he threw up, then cried more and louder.  He's an up-the-ante kind of arguer.  I could go on and on, but I won't!

 

 

[Heatdodge]

Oh, meant to say our friends with sons on the spectrum are very low functioning - I mention that so you understand what he is imagining people will think of him.  WHY he thinks that, I'm not sure.  I'm guessing he thinks people will judge him as "not normal," and in his mind the most extreme thing they could assume about him is that he like these boys (they are non verbal and often violent and he was quite scared the first time he met them, although he has always been gentle and kind with them and asked how he should interact with them so as not to upset them).

[Kat w]

I think it's important to note again what many have said here on the boards and always good ( for me at least to be reminded) ....the overall goal for any child is functioning to the best of their ability in adult life.

Even more important to remember with our kids. So what if they aren't good spellers, they'll have spellcheck .

So what if they have trouble in area X, there will be ways to work around things in adulthood .

Alot of kids like ours are MASTERS at compensating.

( which sometimes makes it difficult to detect and correct the issues)

Edited July 19, 2016 by Kat w

[PeterPan]

For a complex situation, ps evals are likely to be incomplete or inaccurate.  They're asking what they have to remediate and provide an IEP for, and you're asking what's going on.  They're asking whether he qualifies for services, and you're asking whether he has the diagnosis.  You can have a diagnosis and NOT qualify for services.  

 

If you can go private, you really should.  The ps is likely to botch it.  

[Kat w]

PS does view it through a different lens than the parent fir sure.

 

When money is an issue, PS is handy to have.

 

I agree you get more privately, but finances sure do dictate that.

We had private mis diagnose too but more botching def went on in the PS .

 

We got as much pricing as we could from the university then back tracked in out budget.

Cut out certain things and set it aside in savings so we could go the university route.

Even then we spent more than we ballpark budgeted. And we have had to prioritize the therapies.

Some only last for a time, others are ongoing. VT we put last.

 

PS is a good place to start when finances rule out private.

 

I would encourage you to start a "university fund" lol.

I cannot tell you how superior it was even to the best private place in the tri county area.

[Kat w]

P.S. I'm seriously considering using the students doing their clinical ( under the guidance of seasoned certified instructor s) to do some therapies.

 

We've been in private settings where we had younger newer therapist have to constantly go ask the mentor questions ( all while on my dime mind you)

 

I don't think it would be much different here and probably more effective in some ways BC the ones doing their clin incals usually are more eagle eyed than in an est. Practice private setting.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Kat w

[Storygirl]

I agree with OhE that to get a complete and informed diagnostic evaluation, going private will give you more information. In fact, one of my sons has had various private testing during this past school year and is on a waiting list for more, because I don't trust that our school can figure out what his root issues are. The schools can run tests and go over scores and tell you if the scores qualify the student as having a Specific Learning Disability or other learning issue. If they write IEPs for homeschoolers, they will go a step further and write educational goals and give a list of accommodations and remediation. But they don't usually use the words "dyslexia," "dyscalculia," or "dysgraphia." Because they don't diagnose.

 

So yes, there's that. I agree. I wanted the neuropsych testing, and I pursued it, and I'm glad, even though it was expensive.

 

But to make sure you will have school accommodations in place when you enroll, you will need the school testing, too. If you aren't planning to enroll in school soon (meaning by the 2017-18 school year), you could hold off on the school testing and do private testing first. Then you can take the private testing results to the school as proof that the school needs to evaluate. The school will run their own testing process then.

 

That is actually what we did. I just wish that we had completed the school testing before we enrolled, so that my kids could have their IEPs in place when they started school, instead of doing it after we had enrolled, so that they were without IEPs at first.

 

And yes, the school will run an IQ test as part of what they do.

[Kat w]

Yea. I forgot storygirl. We had them too but we started early. That was almost 9 years ago.

 

I think I had it in case I needed it. But they came back with doing everything so I didn't give it to them.

 

Ours was pretty good. Overall. Everything has a down side.

But he fit to work in the social part everyday from age 3 . he needed that intensive time.

 

They set their goals not where I would , or would want them.

And they graduated them early from a thing or 2, but overall for us, the services part was pretty good. We were fortunate there tho I know.

Not all of them are like that.

 

It does have its benefits. I think there's different seasons in life for them and us, you kind of need to just be evaluating hoe life is fir you right now and what's the best thing you can do overall to help the situation within what you have to work with.

 

That's what we do.

Been in ps some, private therapies, for a time we were doing both. We're makin alot if headway AR home now overall.

 

When they were in the PS, it's what they needed. My ds12 couldn't and didn't know how to respond, interact, nothing. It was good for him and he has a really good sn teacher and food therapists there .

that's that school tho. Might go to the next town over and it not be so good

 

We are rural, someone said the rural places usually are more equipped to provide that stuff because there's a greater need there. That's how it is here. So we got lucky.

 

I toured our school alot beforehand. I spent days there at different places. ...they all knew me lol. And that I was payin attny and working w him at home.

 

Was good experience for us, then. Not now lol

[Mimi50]

On 7/18/2016 at 6:44 AM, Rosie_0801 said:

My dd has dyscalculia and wouldn't learn arithmetic at all without CSMP. I'm not sure that the techniques that work for her would work for someone more severe though, from reading around the forum here. I haven't anyone else to test my theories though. :)

 

CSMP works for dd because it teaches in pictures first and her non-verbal intelligence is much higher than her verbal intelligence. Have a look at the 3rd grade entry supplement here: http://stern.buffalostate.edu/CSMPProgram/Primary%20Disk/PrimarySupplment.pdf 
The minicomputer lessons are awesome. They are brilliant for place value, provide a foundation for the concept of simplifying fractions and develop number sense by really highlighting the fact that numbers are just pieces of other numbers. 

 

There seem to be a lot of people with dyscalculia who can do higher maths, but not the arithmetic. I think it must be that they understand the arithmetic but can't do it. I don't see how they could do higher maths without understanding, even if they have to actually *do* the arithmetic on a calculator. 

 

But I have a 9 year old who is two years behind in maths, so I can't speak to what a 10 year old ought to be doing.

This sounds fantastic. My name is Angela I 50 years old dyscalculia adult.  I hope it helps your daughter. She is extremely smart math is just hard for her. I did graduate from high school. Started working in Childcare when I was 21 years old. Took classes at Community College. A good happy life with career happens. Sending blessings too you and your daughter.