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Taking notes for a young learner?


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I've been thinking about the middle school level textbooks that my son will be tackling for science this year. Conceptually, he is ready for the challenge. However, I am concerned about the sheer amount of information being covered. I would like to provide some help/structure around that.

What I have been thinking about is that the skill of outlining and note taking is beyond his abilities and writing output. This would be how I would approach organizing information that I am reading. I don't know how else to help him organize information in a way that makes it easy for him to find key information effectively and for him to reference back to the textbook. Looking back, I know that no one ever taught me how to take notes effectively on reading material. I didn't figure this out until years after I already graduated from college. I just happened to have a good enough memory that I got away with that. 

What I am thinking about doing is to assist him with note taking. I want him to read the material by section. Then I would like him to pause and work with me by talking about what he just read. I would like to prompt him with questions about what he just read to identify the main points and details. I believe that he is capable of doing this as we have been doing some work on this skill in WWE and SOTW. What I would like to do is to avoid him worrying (translate: getting frustrated) about getting it down on paper at all. I want to keep the focus just on verbalizing what he is thinking. I was thinking about scribing for him and organizing his mental notes neatly on paper. More than likely, it will be Cornell style note taking.

I realize that this makes it far more parent intensive for me to participate along with him this way. For those who have BTDT, does this sound like a workable plan or am I overthinking this?

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At 7, it may not even be effective.  Perhaps as exposure to a process, but I suspect it won't help the information connect.

 

What we have done (and has worked) was find other ways to engage with the content.  Videos, experiments, road trips, etc all enrich content in a way that connects naturally will a child's perspective of the world. 

 

That's not to say that middle school content is too heavy - it's not.  Those books are fairly easy reading for 7-9 year olds.  It looks like you are mainly talking about science, here.  Just don't try to force the issue, and you may find your kid ahead of his available options within a few years.  Or not - your kid will show you what he is prepared to do.

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My DD started taking "notes" at church sermons as a preschooler. At that age, it was really "listen to the words and draw a picture that is connected to them, with a few words". We've progressed in the same way for textbooks and other materials, encouraging illustration and summaries, with more of a focus on taking notes from lecture than from the books. At age 11, she's gotten pretty good at jotting down key points, but still illustrates when appropriate. And for science, especially, sometimes a diagram or picture is worth more than words.

 

I do like the SOTW AG4 outlines as a way to demonstrate and teach that method of notetaking.

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My DD started taking "notes" at church sermons as a preschooler. At that age, it was really "listen to the words and draw a picture that is connected to them, with a few words". We've progressed in the same way for textbooks and other materials, encouraging illustration and summaries, with more of a focus on taking notes from lecture than from the books. At age 11, she's gotten pretty good at jotting down key points, but still illustrates when appropriate. And for science, especially, sometimes a diagram or picture is worth more than words.

 

I do like the SOTW AG4 outlines as a way to demonstrate and teach that method of notetaking.

I like this idea. You can teach the importance of note taking without the necessity for overbearing rigor...

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I like this idea. You can teach the importance of note taking without the necessity for overbearing rigor...

 

Honestly, it started out as a way to keep her focused during what was sometimes quite boring content. She wasn't the kind of kid you could hand a coloring book to that was off topic, but taking notes appealed to her. It converted into more real note taking as she's needed it (and she's gotten a lot of positive attention from guest speakers at the university and at conferences because she IS taking notes, which has tended to reinforce it.)

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We tried cornell style note taking and it didn't appeal to us. For science and for a young child, what has worked for my boys is diagrams and mind maps. Textbooks are majority words and much as my kids enjoy reading, they love doodling notes instead of writing them. My kids loathe flashcards. They tolerate Quizlet.

 

My college notes (engineering) were mainly diagrams. I squash a year long class into three pages of notes. My hubby finds it amusing, he was one of my study partners.

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Hmmm...the mind map idea appeals to me. Drawing though may be problematic. My kiddo detests doing anything remotely art oriented. Off to noodle about this. 

I do want to teach outlining skills, but I recognize this is beyond where he is at right now.

 

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We started with me reading out loud and Ds verbally summarizing back to me. It was verbal note taking. There was no reason for him to keep physical notes and he really disliked forced writing. He did all the chapter tests and all the end of section stuff himself. I would often make a list of twenty or so vocab or important content words and he would have to tell me why they were important.

 

Ds loves videos. YouTube has very large quantities of middle and high school teachers who have put their stuff up online as supplimental materials for class. Those are always helpful because the content is always the same.

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I taught my kids to outline IN the textbook. It's a *lot* quicker.  So if there are 3 main points, you underline the points and write: 1,2,3 and double underline the header they are referring to.  Then you mark examples in a different colour, and you can also link with arrows how the text connects to the diagrams/graphs/tables.  As you get more advanced, you can do the whole I, A, 1 formal outline.  But I did not do this with my older until he was 12.  And my younger and I are doing it now, but verbally and together - searching in our Earth Science book for how many points are made, what are the subpoints, etc.  And then reviewing what we learned from the previous day by looking at the headers and subheaders.  I will say that my older boy *still* does not take notes for any subject.  He does make flashcards for memorizing math proofs or chemistry bits.  But he uses flashcards so he can shuffle them, so definitely not outlining.

 

I have taught both kids to outline what they are going to say in a paper, but kind of a different, although related, skill.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited by lewelma
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I've wondered about note-taking too.

My memory is truly hopeless, so I relied heavily on note-taking and study skills in school and uni.

My daughter (10) has an amazing memory, but I don't think it's a great idea for her to rely solely on it. As she gets older, the content will keep getting deeper, harder and more voluminous. 

 

At this stage, she doesn't read textbooks on her own that much. Usually I read out loud, we discuss stuff, she answers questions as we go ... so we're kind of doing what EoO said above and note-taking verbally.

 

I like Ruth's idea about noting within the textbook and numbering key points. I'll be taking that idea and running with it!

 

Also, when we undertake MOOCs, we do it together and I model note-taking. I'm hoping that this helps give the message that note-taking is valuable and also helps her see which points are worth noting down. We pause the videos and discuss what I should jot down. It's good when we get to the quizzes and we need to scroll back through my notes. I'm just hoping this all sinks in and is getting filed away somewhere under 'valuable skills'.  :001_smile:

Edited by chocolate-chip chooky
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Also, when we undertake MOOCs, we do it together and I model note-taking. I'm hoping that this helps give the message that note-taking is valuable and also helps her see which points are worth noting down. We pause the videos and discuss what I should jot down. It's good when we get to the quizzes and we need to scroll back through my notes. I'm just hoping this all sinks in and is getting filed away somewhere under 'valuable skills'. :001_smile:

How about taking notes together, as in you make your own and she make hers. My older started doing that for shorter documentaries on YouTube when he was 8. It was fun seeing what he took note of without input from hubby or me.

 

Would she be interested in debate? Debate is one possible activity where note taking skills as well as your daughter's amazing memory can work in a complimentary manner.

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Younger DS has been using a mindmapping software to take notes on some history documentaries that he wanted to write about.  The key here is to make sure that you know what you are going to write about before you start outlining, so you can sort through all the information to pull out only what is useful.  This is a different skill than trying to learn it *all* for a test in a subject, where you need to take notes on all the information in case you are asked about. 

 

I have been very clear when teaching outlining to also talk about the different purposes:

To improve reading comprehension (outlining a difficult paragraph to gain insight)

To study *how* excellent writers organize their writing (so you can improve your own writing)

To learn all the information (for test, say you need to learn a chapter)

To pick only useful information for a paper you are writing

To outline your ideas to improve your writing

To reorganize information provided to you in a novel way to improve your understanding and integrate it into your own knowledge base

To listen and outline at the same time (for lecture format)

 

I'm sure there are others.  But "outlining" is actually many skills.

 

Edited by lewelma
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