High School English 4-year Sequence

[GThomas]

Hi all; I need your help please!

 

I'm going around and around and around in circles trying to figure out what my daughter's english sequence will be for high school. I'm feeling fairly pathetic right now.

 

Here's some background:

• My dd loves creative writing and is finishing up the One Year Adventure Novel.
• I think she's behind in expository writing 
• She's not done any real sentence diagramming before
• I am looking for her writing to be taught in a live class (online) and graded by the teacher
• My dd is college bound and science focused (but I want to keep a good focus on english as I think she has some aptitude in there)
• We'd appreciate curriculum that is secular-friendly

Here's what I have come up with so far. Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I doing this all wrong? As far as I can tell there seems to be 4 sections to Language Arts. 

 

- WRITING:

My dd loves the Bravewriter classes but I believe they only have one-off classes and not full semesters or a full year comprehensive class.

• 9th grade: IEW (I read somewhere a recommendation it's good to start here to get the structure down but it gets repetitive and good to move on after the first year. My dd would not do well with repetitiveness but needs help on getting the structure down.
  • In October take: Bravewriter "Writing the Short Story" to prepare for the National Novel Writing Month in November.
• 10th grade: Well Trained Mind - Preparation for Rhetoric Writing
• 11th grade: Well Trained Mind - Rhetoric I
• 12th grade: Well Trained Mind - Rhetoric II

- GRAMMAR:

• 9th grade: http://www.english-grammar-revolution.com/daily-diagrams.html (my son does MCT Grammar Town but not sure my dd would find it interesting enough to hold her attention.) or Analytical Grammar: https://www.analyticalgrammar.com/our-products/analytical-grammar/ 

- VOCABULARY:

• We're going to try http://membean.com this year and if it goes well, continue with it for the 4 years.

- LITERATURE ANALYSIS:

• I'm not sure! Does anyone know of good, online discussion literature analysis classes? Is literature analysis a combination of reading comprehension, understanding literary devices and figurative language and reading into deeper meanings? On my current list to consider is (including non-online live classes because I haven't found anything that is ongoing):
  • Holt Mcdougall Literature Student and Teacher books: ​https://www.amazon.com/Holt-McDougal-Literature-Student-Grade/dp/0547618395/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1467320584&sr=8-3&keywords=McDougal+Language+of+Literature%3A+Teacher%27s+Edition+Grade+9 
  • I REALLY like LitCharts: http://www.litcharts.com but not sure if that is enough to suffice for literature analysis?
  • ESC Novel Units: http://www.ecslearningsystems.com/webstore/store/showproductslist.asp?cmsAbout=1&idcategory=107& 
  • Skills for Literary Analysis: http://cathyduffyreviews.com/homeschool-reviews-core-curricula/phonics-reading/readers-literature/readers-literature-grades-9-12/skills-for-literary-analysis 
  • Teaching the Classics: http://cathyduffyreviews.com/homeschool-reviews-core-curricula/phonics-reading/readers-literature/readers-literature-grades-1-8/teaching-the-classics-a-socratic-method-for-literary-education-and-ready-readers (this sounds like the way to go but requires high involvement from the parent)

 

Thank you!

Edited July 1, 2016 by GThomas

[GoodGrief]

My friend really liked "Center for Lit" online discussions for her high school daughter. I never tried them, because I don't care for things with specific meeting times, but perhaps that would work for you?

 

We used Write at Home for 9th grade writing, and it was good, but I think one's happiness with Write at Home really depends on the fit with the assigned instructor.

 

I thought the AP Homeschoolers AP English Lang and AP English Lit classes were both excellent. I like both Ruth Green and Maya Inspektor for instructors. They are not live classes, but there is an interactive component, both with teacher and other students.

 

We used Lightning Lit for A World Literature class; it was fine, but it's not a live taught class, so I don't think it works for your parameters. :-)

[Momto6inIN]

Not sure if you meant to put it there or if it's a typo, but I just thought I'd mention that Analytical Grammar is not literary analysis, it's just grammar. And it's not online.

 

We really love AG and after they're finished with that, I consider them to be done with "doing grammar" and responsible for using that knowledge in their writing.

 

Other that that, I can't help you. We don't do online classes in this subject. Good luck!

[Julie of KY]

I happen to love the Brave Writer classes. If your daughter also loves them, then I'd continue with them for the "structure" rather than IEW. I don't think she'd like to go back to IEW from Brave Writer. You can always move to something else later if you want.

 

My kids like the Center for LIterature online discussions. We've always done them without the writing component, but they do offer writing as well. Brave Writer also offers Boomerang for lit discussion as well as some literary analysis writing classes.

[OnMyOwn]

It sounds like you are headed in the right direction. My kids haven't taken any of TWTM writing classes, but I have a friend whose son has and she has been happy with them. You might take a look at Maya Inspektor's AP English class for down the road because I've heard nothing but positives about it and what a great preparation it is for college writing. We started out with IEW and I agree that it is a great starting point for understanding structure and working on things like sentence variety.

 

Here is a link for the IEW classes my kids took for a number of years. http://www.iewwritingteacher.com I just had my son do a quick IEW summer refresher course on research writing and it was helpful to him. The teacher is good at teaching the IEW method, and is good with the kids, but she does have a strong personality and can be somewhat abrasive (imo) in emails to the parents. If you PM me, I can send you a link to a class.

 

My ds used Saxon grammar and my dd used AG. Both were okay. Dd finished AG this year in 8th and I do not think she'll be doing additional grammar work. Ds continued working through Saxon grammar on and off through 10th and may even do a little in 11th just to keep things fresh.

 

We are not doing a vocab program in high school.

 

I like Teaching the Classics and own it and would love to use it, but my kids are taking online classes and we'll probably never have time for it. If I was going to do something at home, that would be it.

Edited July 1, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[OnMyOwn]

You might also want to look at The Potter's School English courses because I think they cover both literature analysis and writing, so you could get most of what you want in English from one course. I had seriously considered their classes in the past because they looked so good, but we had a local omnibus option that worked well for us, so we never tried them. Hopefully, someone who has used their classes will comment.

Edited July 1, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[OnMyOwn]

I happen to love the Brave Writer classes. If your daughter also loves them, then I'd continue with them for the "structure" rather than IEW. I don't think she'd like to go back to IEW from Brave Writer. You can always move to something else later if you want.

 

My kids like the Center for LIterature online discussions. We've always done them without the writing component, but they do offer writing as well. Brave Writer also offers Boomerang for lit discussion as well as some literary analysis writing classes.

Well, after everything I wrote, I suspect Julie has the best advice for you here. This rings true to me.

[GThomas]

My friend really liked "Center for Lit" online discussions for her high school daughter. I never tried them, because I don't care for things with specific meeting times, but perhaps that would work for you?

 

We used Lightning Lit for A World Literature class; it was fine, but it's not a live taught class, so I don't think it works for your parameters. :-)

Hello,

 

The Center for Lit mentions upfront religion. Do you think a non-religious person would feel uncomfortable or do you know how prominent religion is in the discussions?

 

The Lightening Lit looks good. If I can't find a live class, that is top of my list for other options.

 

Thank you for your help!

[GThomas]

Not sure if you meant to put it there or if it's a typo, but I just thought I'd mention that Analytical Grammar is not literary analysis, it's just grammar. And it's not online.

 

We really love AG and after they're finished with that, I consider them to be done with "doing grammar" and responsible for using that knowledge in their writing.

 

Other that that, I can't help you. We don't do online classes in this subject. Good luck!

 

Whoops, you are right. I put that in the wrong category. 

 

That's great and helpful to hear that you liked that program. I will keep it on the list (but in the right category!)

[GThomas]

I happen to love the Brave Writer classes. If your daughter also loves them, then I'd continue with them for the "structure" rather than IEW. I don't think she'd like to go back to IEW from Brave Writer. You can always move to something else later if you want.

 

My kids like the Center for LIterature online discussions. We've always done them without the writing component, but they do offer writing as well. Brave Writer also offers Boomerang for lit discussion as well as some literary analysis writing classes.

 

Hi Julie,

 

The only thing about Bravewriter is that it's not an ongoing class. So after it's over, I'd need to assign other assignments to keep the writing up and then I'd have to provide the grading and input to her. I can do that but I really don't want to next year! I don't mind slotting it in throughout the year but would need something to supplement for a full year of writing. 

 

Sounds like another vote for Center for Lit and good to know you can skip the writing component if you want. 

 

We've done Bravewriter Boomerang in the past but I feel like it's too light on discussion. Litcharts.com provides some super analysis chapter by chapter. Right now we're just reading through it and I can see it's opening my daughter's eyes to deeper meaning. So far she's not a fan of deeper meaning and says she prefers the writing to be more straightforward but I know that will change as she gets older and that she is getting more out of the books she does read because of the deeper meaning that is unconscious to her. ;-) If Litcharts.com had discussion prompts and fill in the blank worksheets to get students to try and figure it out themselves first, then it'd be a winner for me. 

 

Thank you so much for your help!!

[Julie of KY]

Hello,

 

The Center for Lit mentions upfront religion. Do you think a non-religious person would feel uncomfortable or do you know how prominent religion is in the discussions?

 

 

The teachers of Center for Lit come from a Christian Worldview but they don't try to persuade the students in any particular direction.

 

Through most book discussions, you'd never know they are Christians. Some books have that as part of their theme and therefore it comes up in discussion.

 

When discussing this issue with my boys (after they had both done a full year of Center for Lit), one of them knew that Adam Andrews is a Christian and the other did not. I think my oldest learned it as they discussed one of the books by CS Lewis.

[GThomas]

It sounds like you are headed in the right direction. My kids haven't taken any of TWTM writing classes, but I have a friend whose son has and she has been happy with them. You might take a look at Maya Inspektor's AP English class for down the road because I've heard nothing but positives about it and what a great preparation it is for college writing. We started out with IEW and I agree that it is a great starting point for understanding structure and working on things like sentence variety.

 

Here is a link for the IEW classes my kids took for a number of years. http://www.iewwritingteacher.com I just had my son do a quick IEW summer refresher course on research writing and it was helpful to him. The teacher is good at teaching the IEW method, and is good with the kids, but she does have a strong personality and can be somewhat abrasive (imo) in emails to the parents. If you PM me, I can send you a link to a class.

 

My ds used Saxon grammar and my dd used AG. Both were okay. Dd finished AG this year in 8th and I do not think she'll be doing additional grammar work. Ds continued working through Saxon grammar on and off through 10th and may even do a little in 11th just to keep things fresh.

 

We are not doing a vocab program in high school.

 

I like Teaching the Classics and own it and would love to use it, but my kids are taking online classes and we'll probably never have time for it. If I was going to do something at home, that would be it.

 

Thanks for confirming that I'm on the right track! 

 

I've put Maya Inspektor on my spreadsheet for later on, thank you.

 

I didn't know about the IEW Writing Teacher so thank you for that and I'll definitely look into it. 

 

My dd has no patience for Saxon unfortunately. 

 

Thank you!

[Julie of KY]

Hi Julie,

 

The only thing about Bravewriter is that it's not an ongoing class. So after it's over, I'd need to assign other assignments to keep the writing up and then I'd have to provide the grading and input to her. I can do that but I really don't want to next year! I don't mind slotting it in throughout the year but would need something to supplement for a full year of writing. 

 

I don't think you HAVE to have a full year of writing. You need a full ENGLISH credit of which part of it is writing. You can piecemeal the credit by doing writing, literature, grammar, discussion, poetry, etc.

 

Brave Writer lists each of their 4-6 week classes as 1/4 credit.

Center for Literature list their discussion only literature class as 1 credit and a 2nd credit if you do the writing portion.

If you are adding anything at home - vocabulary, grammar - then you are doing some more portions of a credit.

 

It's okay to keep writing between Brave Writer classes, but it's also okay to have periods of time that you do more focused writing instruction and then less writing later.

 

I take my Center for Lit class, multiple Brave Writer classes, family literature discussion along with whatever else we are learning (writing, grammar, poetry, vocabulary, etc.) and call it one English credit. In my course description, I spell out more of what we did and what was emphasized for that year.

 

Good luck deciding if you want to piecemeal your credit of if you want it all from one source.

 

[GThomas]

You might also want to look at The Potter's School English courses because I think they cover both literature analysis and writing, so you could get most of what you want in English from one course. I had seriously considered their classes in the past because they looked so good, but we had a local omnibus option that worked well for us, so we never tried them. Hopefully, someone who has used their classes will comment.

Do you think a non-religious person would feel uncomfortable in the classes (not knowing what people are talking about, not being able to participate in some discussions?) We do use some Christian curriculum but some curriculum is more religion focused than others. 

[GThomas]

Do you think a non-religious person would feel uncomfortable in the classes (not knowing what people are talking about, not being able to participate in some discussions?) We do use some Christian curriculum but some curriculum is more religion focused than others. 

Ok, that then sounds good for us. Thank you! 

[GThomas]

I don't think you HAVE to have a full year of writing. You need a full ENGLISH credit of which part of it is writing. You can piecemeal the credit by doing writing, literature, grammar, discussion, poetry, etc.

 

Brave Writer lists each of their 4-6 week classes as 1/4 credit.

Center for Literature list their discussion only literature class as 1 credit and a 2nd credit if you do the writing portion.

If you are adding anything at home - vocabulary, grammar - then you are doing some more portions of a credit.

 

It's okay to keep writing between Brave Writer classes, but it's also okay to have periods of time that you do more focused writing instruction and then less writing later.

 

I take my Center for Lit class, multiple Brave Writer classes, family literature discussion along with whatever else we are learning (writing, grammar, poetry, vocabulary, etc.) and call it one English credit. In my course description, I spell out more of what we did and what was emphasized for that year.

 

Good luck deciding if you want to piecemeal your credit of if you want it all from one source.

 

Hmm, ok you make a good point. Right now (we are schooling during summer due to moving which put us back) she is doing a science report and she definitely needs more work on paragraph structure for formal papers, remembering to cite more references and overall usage of higher vocabulary (she does it in creative writing but not in expository). I'm just looking for 1 credit a year so maybe she could do one Bravewriter class on a high school project (I'll assign one of her science topics for it), a Bravewriter essay class (and assign a history topic for it), some grammar, some vocabulary and some literature analysis (maybe 4 books) and call it 1 credit. Her history has lots of writing included but we skip the large papers (because she doesn't like history that much) but maybe I include one of those and grade it myself and have her do a second science report and I grade that one myself. 

 

Ok, I have some thinking to do! Life is better when she is doing what she wants to do. Thank you.

[RootAnn]

Center for Lit changed their format a bit this year to add some required writing on their forums, but you can sign up for the old option (no online forum stuff) if you call the office.

 

Two Bravewriter classes per semester plus Center for Lit sounds like a good solid English credit. Add more (grammar/vocab) and you might end up with two credits. (My dd is doing one online composition class plus spelling plus Center for Lit (old option) and I will give two credits.)

[RootAnn]

I forgot something. If you want to round out an English credit with something worthwhile without adding a ton of time (or writing), Roy Speed's Shakespeare classes are wonderful. They are less than a semester long; some are shorter than others. Your kid learns from a very excited and knowledgeable teacher, but there is very little tangible output, which IMO makes a good extra to round out a full credit if you need it.

 

Edited to add the link for the Shakespeare classes.

Edited July 3, 2016 by RootAnn

[GThomas]

I forgot something. If you want to round out an English credit with something worthwhile without adding a ton of time (or writing), Roy Speed's Shakespeare classes are wonderful. They are less than a semester long; some are shorter than others. Your kid learns from a very excited and knowledgeable teacher, but there is very little tangible output, which IMO makes a good extra to round out a full credit if you need it.

Thanks Root Ann! I think I will save your recommendation for another school year as it sounds super.

 

I am now leaning toward the below, but I am still working on it. I want to keep it at 1 credit for the year. I'm trying not too add in too much but I want it all! ;-)

 

SEMESTER 1:

 

Grammar and Sentence Diagramming: Michael Clay Thompson, Magic Lens I

(approximately 0.75 hours a week)

 

Vocabulary: Membean

(approximately 0.75 hours a week)

 

Expository Writing:

-  Time4Writing: High School Paragraph Writing (8 week class)

In preparation to produce a science research report in semester 2, I will review the following instruction:

- How to take notes (from teachers-pay-teachers)

- How not to plagiarize (from teachers-pay-teachers)

Creative Writing: Bravewriter Writing the Short Story (5 week class to prepare for National Novel Writing Month)

(approximately 4 hours a week)

 

Literature Analysis: Introduction to Literature, English 1 by Everyday Education. Not the whole program but just picking pieces from it. The required reading for this project will be: 

   - Animal Farm by George Orwell

   - Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë

   - Short story: A White Heron by Sarah Orne Jewett

   - Short story: The Secret Life of Walter Mitty by James Thurber

(approximately 3 hours a week)

 

SEMESTER 2:

 

Vocabulary: Membean

Expository Writing:

-  Bravewriter: High School Writing Projects (4 week class) 

- How to Teach the Research Report (from teachers-pay-teachers)

- Write a science research report from Biology class.

Literature Analysis: Introduction to Literature, English 1 by Everyday Education.

The required reading for this project will be: 

   - The Tempest by William Shakespeare

   - Gulliver’s Travels by Jonathan Swift

   - Short story: Edgar Allen Poe: The Purloined Letter

   - Short story: Eudora Welty: A Worn Path

 

BrainFuse. We will try this service out as it's free with our library. Students can submit papers for feedback from teachers. 

 

[Pistachio mom]

I have also heard good things about Jensen's Format Writing. I have looked through it and liked it. Also, the Great Courses/Teaching company has some writing courses.

 

I am planning to incorporate Power in Your Hands for more expository writing instruction. This is written from a Christian perspective.

 

Writing: The Bridge Between Us is also another good source. I am planning to use it in the future. It is one I got free online, but I like it.

 

About Grammar, I used Analytical Grammar and my family liked it. The teaching is very clear and concise. We do use the AG grammar review's for high school, but if a student understands AG, you do not need to study any more grammar.

[GThomas]

I have also heard good things about Jensen's Format Writing. I have looked through it and liked it. Also, the Great Courses/Teaching company has some writing courses.

 

I am planning to incorporate Power in Your Hands for more expository writing instruction. This is written from a Christian perspective.

 

Writing: The Bridge Between Us is also another good source. I am planning to use it in the future. It is one I got free online, but I like it.

 

About Grammar, I used Analytical Grammar and my family liked it. The teaching is very clear and concise. We do use the AG grammar review's for high school, but if a student understands AG, you do not need to study any more grammar.

Oh wow, more to research! ;-) These all look great at first glance. I will look into them in more detail. 

 

Ok it sounds like Analytical Grammar is a favorite among many. I am torn. My son and I did MCT's Grammar Town and we're doing 4 level diagramming of sentences within a few months. I like how it was explained and the iTunes iBooks are inexpensive. He's now reviewing with Practice Town. If the Magic Lens book follows the same pattern, I think it's a good fit. I will continue to think about it. If go the Magic Lens route and it's a flop with her (she is a different person than her brother and I!) than we will switch to Analytical Grammar. 

 

Thank you!