Disagreement with dh over makeup.

[Junie]

I guess it all comes down to which message you'd want your teenage daughter to take away from the situation. Personally, I'd go with "Your body is your own, and no one can tell you what to do with it" over "Any authority figure can control your body, so just give up the illusion that you have any say in the matter."

 

I only have one teenage daughter so far (but there are four more coming, LOL).

 

I actually don't teach either of these messages.

 

My message is more along the lines of:  Your body is your own.  Your father and I are teaching you how to take care of and honor your body.  Some day you will make all of the decisions on your own.  Authority figures can tell you how to control your body while you are under their authority, but it is your choice whose authority (if any) you will be under.

 

 

 

edited to fix punctuation

Edited June 23, 2016 by Junie

[dirty ethel rackham]

" Dh, dd is at a time in her life that she really needs to "hear" what her parents have to say. Choosing to make a big deal about makeup means that she's going to tune you out all of the time. Even about important stuff like work, friends, and major life choices. Is makeup such a big deal that you want to have her tune you out over it? I know you think it looks ridiculous. So let her look ridiculous. Not a reason to cause strife with our child."

:iagree: I couldn't like this enough!! 

 

At 16, she is in charge of her own face and he needs to stop. And, calling anything 'trashy' is a terrible message to send. It is just a fashion trend and has nothing to do with her availability for sex.

 

 

Your question is how to resolve this. 

 

I would say YOU have to take lead on this. 

 

Don't blame your dd for 'sneakiness' and not 'taking the consequences'. Blame yourself for not being her support & her defense. She make a choice knowing you wouldn't defend her. 

 

In the future you need to rise to her defense & she needs to know you have her back always. Then she'll not sneak. 

 

I think you need to tell your dh to knock it off and to stop commenting on what is an almost grown woman's appearance. It is not appropriate for a man to judge a woman's appearance like this.  Make it a big huge deal because it is a big huge deal.

 

Men's judgements of women's appearance is a big problem for me - esp the idea that a certain kind of makeup signals sexual availability.  Dude, don't even go there. 

 

 

Especially the bolded.  What kind of message is he giving her?  This attitude is no better than cat-calls on the street corner. 

 

 

I don't think this approach is correct at all. This is not really about eyeliner. Other situations have your Dh upset. Those are the ones he needs to deal with, not a nit picking battle over an older teen's perfectly appropriate makeup choices.

Some men (not all by any means) have a hard time with teens, especially girls. The problem is not usually with the girl, makeup, fashionable clothes, etc. The problem is with a dad trying to control what is out of his control: kids growing up and making their own choices, good or bad.

Growing up, it was my mother who went nuts over control about clothes, makeup, curfews. It deeply impacted our relationship and to this day, I tell her as little as possible about my life. Do not wreck a relationship over outward appearance.

:iagree: :iagree:

[Rachel]

I think dads are just weird about makeup, it bothers them that their daughters are growing up. I think moms go through this in a different way when their kids are younger. There is a 13 year old at church we have known her entire life. She recently started wearing very light makeup and it really bothered my husband. He couldn't articulate why (especially since he has absolutely no dog in the fight) but I think it made him feel old and realize how quickly our children are growing up. I imagine when our daughter wants to start wearing makeup it will really bother him.

 

I don't know how you can get your husband to see that this isn't worth battling, but is there any way they can work out a compromise? Maybe she only wears that eyeliner on the weekends or something? They need to have a conversation because this is something easy to work out compared to what else you may face in the next couple years. It is the style now even if he doesn't love it.

 

One of our ministers let his son wear his hair really ridiculous for awhile. It was a terrible style, covering his eyes and looked like it was cut via machete. The minister said he would rather his son "rebel" by having weird hair than do other things. A year or so later the son started dating a girl and soon afterward he got a more traditional haircut. It was a lesson to me not to battle over things that really don't matter.

[HRAAB]

I've often noticed that when big issues arise with our children that we can't control, we start picking on little things. And those little things can slowly harm a relationship. I can only say what I would do. I would get dh alone and let him know I understand about everything going on, but this is not the right way for him to respond. He needs to address the underlying issues and let off dd. He needs to stop. That's how our relationship works. We are both free to call the other out when they're not using reasonable judgment.

 

In my home, dh never gets involved with how our girls dress or wear makeup and leaves it up to me. Like he says, he doesn't have a clue about female fashion, and he trusts me to handle it and make sure our girls look appropriate.

 

Eta: spelling

Edited June 23, 2016 by Ishki

[Katy]

To her face.

 

That is abusive.  She's not being trashy, he's being controlling and abusive.  She's almost an adult.  He can go to counseling or shut up, but saying that is way over the line.

 

Has he taken a look at any of the girls her age?  Winged liner is much classier than the black completely around the eye in the inner rim thing that was in when I was a teen.

[Rachel]

PS I don't have a teenager yet, so take my advise with a grain of salt.

[Corraleno]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with most of y'all on this.

 

I think that you should respect your husband's decision on this.  It is something that he obviously feels strongly about, so why make a big deal of it?  By allowing her to go against his wishes you might be teaching your daughter to disrespect/disobey him.

 

I'm not a fan of winged eyeliner, but I don't think it looks "trashy".  I think that it looks like special occasion makeup -- for example prom, but not everyday going to classes. Maybe y'all can come to a compromise that she can wear it for certain occasions/activities but not every day?

 

The father's insistence on micromanaging a near-adult with silly rules that have no basis in reality is what's going to make her disrespect him. He could use punishment to force her to go along with his dictates, so he can pretend to himself that he's being "respected," but he can't prevent her from thinking he's being ridiculous and controlling. Parents who demand fake respect, rather than earning genuine respect, may win the battle but ultimately they are losing the war.

[Mergath]

I only have one teenage daughter so far (but there are four more coming, LOL).

 

I actually don't teach either of these messages.

 

My message is more along the lines of:  Your body is your own.  Your father and I are teaching you how to take care of and honor your body.  Some day you will make all of the decisions on your own.  Authority figures can tell you how to control your body while you are under their authority, but it is your choice whose authority (if any) you will be under.

 

 

 

edited to fix punctuation

 

I don't think we're going to come to an agreement here, because I would never teach that to my daughter. Her body is hers, period. She can choose to follow a dress code when she's older if she wants to work for a company that has one, but no authority figure gets to control her body. That's a dangerous message for a young woman, imo.

[Junie]

To her face.

 

:(

[zoobie]

That is abusive.  She's not being trashy, he's being controlling and abusive.  She's almost an adult.  He can go to counseling or shut up, but saying that is way over the line.

 

Has he taken a look at any of the girls her age?  Winged liner is much classier than the black completely around the eye in the inner rim thing that was in when I was a teen.

 

I agree with the first part, but I don't think it matters if she's flying solo with her eyeliner look. :)

[Mergath]

PS I don't have a teenager yet, so take my advise with a grain of salt.

 

I don't either, but I remember being one very vividly. ;)

[MaeFlowers]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with most of y'all on this.

 

I think that you should respect your husband's decision on this. It is something that he obviously feels strongly about, so why make a big deal of it? By allowing her to go against his wishes you might be teaching your daughter to disrespect/disobey him.

 

I'm not a fan of winged eyeliner, but I don't think it looks "trashy". I think that it looks like special occasion makeup -- for example prom, but not everyday going to classes. Maybe y'all can come to a compromise that she can wear it for certain occasions/activities but not every day?

I don't think she is teaching her daughter to disrespect him, *he* is. He is the one using names (trashy) and he is the one throwing the coniption fit. He has to behave in respectful manner to earn respect.

This isn't to argue that he doesn't have a right to his opinion. He does. But, I think he needs to rethink how he is wording things and talk to his daughter respectfully about it. He also needs to listen to her respectfully.

It sounds like this has blown up and everyone needs to go their own spaces and calm down a bit. Each needs to be able to express themselves kindly and respectfully and listen the same way. I guess I would ask my daughter why she wants to wear her makeup that way so that she can enter the conversation with reason. I would ask dh to think about it to. Why does he have a problem with it? Is this that big a deal, etc? Then, they can talk and hopefully work things out.

[bolt.]

I would try to have a heart-to-heart with DH, to encourage him to let this go. I would hope that through sympathy and positivity he would come round, and I wouldn't go into it expecting to fail.

 

If I did fail to convince him to change his mind, I would make say clearly and directly, "I think you are wrong, and I consider this plan of yours to be bad parenting. You can work against this makeup trend if really want to -- but, if you do, you will be doing it against my wishes and without my help." (Those are extremely powerful words that are hard to say, and they are usually received in a way similar to an ultimatum. They take a surprising amount if guts to utter, and they will probably make him back down.)

 

If he didn't end the conversation right there, I would let him know that I would be (1) not helping, monitoring, or enforcing his makeup standards in any way -- nor any consiquences for violations, (2) would be verbally making sure DD knew I had a different opinion if he made comments, and (3) would be arguing 'for' my DD if she chose to argue 'against' him about her makeup.

 

I'd expect him to get angry. I'd try to keep cool and have an exit strategy, but it's pretty much a fighting-words scenario, and it's going to come to a head either way.

Edited June 23, 2016 by bolt.

[Junie]

I only have one teenage daughter so far (but there are four more coming, LOL).

 

I actually don't teach either of these messages.

 

My message is more along the lines of:  Your body is your own.  Your father and I are teaching you how to take care of and honor your body.  Some day you will make all of the decisions on your own.  Authority figures can tell you how to control your body while you are under their authority, but it is your choice whose authority (if any) you will be under.

 

 

 

edited to fix punctuation

 

 

I don't think we're going to come to an agreement here, because I would never teach that to my daughter. Her body is hers, period. She can choose to follow a dress code when she's older if she wants to work for a company that has one, but no authority figure gets to control her body. That's a dangerous message for a young woman, imo.

 

We do agree on this.  But I was not specifying employer because I would also include religious beliefs.  Some women choose to dress a certain way because of their religion.  This is the woman's choice to dress a certain way for religious beliefs or not.

 

Also, I am not talking about controlling her body, but her appearance.

[Katy]

I agree with the first part, but I don't think it matters if she's flying solo with her eyeliner look. :)

 

I agree with you, but in this case the fact that this isn't a solo thing, and is in fact the style, might help her father to realize he's wrong and shut up.

 

I doubt this has anything to do with eyeliner though, it's about a tiny way for him to feel in control of his life.  A completely inappropriate, borderline abusive way of feeling in control.

[bettyandbob]

It's makeup. It comes off. I let my dc do whatever with make up and hair because neither are permanent. At 16 it's not really my choice. At 16 they are learning how their chosen look is percieved by others. When they need to give a different impression and want to they will do it. 

 

Your dh needs to stop. 

 

[Mergath]

We do agree on this.  But I was not specifying employer because I would also include religious beliefs.  Some women choose to dress a certain way because of their religion.  This is the woman's choice to dress a certain way for religious beliefs or not.

 

Also, I am not talking about controlling her body, but her appearance.

 

You can't separate your appearance from your body. If my dh tried to tell me (he never would, but for the sake of argument) how to dress, how to do my hair, how to wear my makeup, he would be controlling my body. 

[Bluegoat]

I don't think it's necessarily over the line to tell teens that there is some sort of problem with their clothing.  They don't always realize, and there are instances where it matters, or it's giving a really different impression than they realize.  Or, in some cases, teens will use fashion to signal something more serious that is a problem.  If my daughter suddenly started going out looking like she was trying to pick up on the strip, I would wonder why, and what was going on with her sense of her body.

 

But gosh, by 16 there would have to be something pretty concrete to make it more forceful than a conversation.

 

But beyond that, I just cannot see supporting it if the judgement of the parent is really far off - which is also something that can happen.  I would see myself saying something like, "Dh, that make-up style is perfectly respectable, have you noticed on the wife of the doctor in Doc Martin who is a rather conservative looking elementary school teacher?  It may be it looks slightly odd when dd wears it with ripped jeans and a t-shirt, but it still isn't trashy.  You really have the wrong end of the stick on this, and I know it, dd knows it, and she is going to come to the conclusion you are just out of touch with the world."

[Greta]

I tend to be a pretty timid, conflict-avoiding wife by nature.  I recently had a disagreement with my husband because I wanted to allow our teenage daughter to go to a concert that's going to be given by one of her two favorite artists in our city this fall - a rare opportunity because most musicians do not bother with our city!  And it would be perfect timing for her 17th birthday - she would absolutely love it!  DH didn't want her to go, because the venue is dangerous.  Personally, I don't think that going to the bad part of town once every ten years or so is much of a risk!  But it is a dangerous part of town, he has a right to protect his daughter, so I acquiesced. 

 

But I have to tell you, if anyone, even my husband, used words like "trashy" to describe any aspect of my daughter's appearance?  Oh.  Hell.  No.  I'm sure he thinks he was just describing the makeup, but as a former teenage girl myself, I know that girls can't hear things like that and not internalize it, not be hurt by it.  NO ONE gets to make implications about my daughter's sexuality or her worth based on her appearance.  I don't care if it's her father, nobody is getting away with that unchallenged while I have breath in my body.  There is way too much of that crap in our society at large, a father should be a young woman's refuge from all that nastiness!

 

So, in other words, I'm 100% with you, OP.  You don't have an obligation to support your husband when he is being unreasonable and is damaging his relationship with his daughter.  You wouldn't be helping either one of him by supporting him in this. 

 

 

[Guest]

Guess what I'm wearing this morning?

 

Apparently being a thirty year old Christian mommy means I'm trashy, because I pair it with black winged liner. Sheeeeesh. He needs to pick his battles and makeup isn't one of them. If her pertinent bits are covers and her basic attitude is good, I'd let go of hair and makeup choices completely. Trashy is so subjective anyway, and demeaning to her for him to say it. I agree the sneakiness isn't appropriate, but in this he is making all sorts of wrong assumptions about her AND how the culture perceives what she is wearing on her face!

[Spryte]

I answered once already, but here I go again...

 

This may have been covered already, but I am stuck on the word trashy.

 

Please. That is a terrible word choice. It implies that there are women who are trash, and that your DD looks like them. Women are never trash, they are never less than, and using that kind of language promotes the notion that some women are trashy and some are not. I find that type of language as offensive as some people find more traditional curse words. And I learned it from my parents - who didn't use words like trashy about people either. There is a way to get his point across without calling other humans trash. That's just ugly. And I'm not talking about the eyeliner.

 

 

If you feel the same, please ask your DH to refrain using that kind of language with his teen DD. She hears every word he says, and she's internalizing it all. It impacts her view of herself, and other women.

[SeaConquest]

I've worn my eyeliner like this, in heavy black, for almost 25 years. I'm not saying I ain't trashy, but if I am ... it's not the eyeliner! :leaving:

 

 

Preach!  :coolgleamA:

 

I agree with Hornblower, I think that you need to make a stronger defense of your daughter. Yes, it is important to learn that there is a time and a place to be trendy (which is why my body mods were always hidden beneath clothes), and that we don't always get to dictate our appearance in the real world, but this isn't about him complaining about how she looks when she goes off to her job or an interview. He is criticizing her general appearance re her style of makeup. That is simply not appropriate, IMO. 

[fairfarmhand]

I don't think it's necessarily over the line to tell teens that there is some sort of problem with their clothing.  They don't always realize, and there are instances where it matters, or it's giving a really different impression than they realize. 

Yeah, my dd wanted to wear some really gigantic, bright red stilettos to an interview with a college advisor about a scholarship. My dh stepped in and told her that the shoes weren't a good idea. I agreed with him on that. I told her that she needs every part of her appearance to reflect that she's a serious student with a professional demeanor. Interviews aren't the best time to demonstrate flashy fashion sense unless you're applying for a job in maybe the creative world.

 

I don't know if it makes a difference or not to college advisors, but people do judge by appearances at times. I did want to at least mention that the shoes might put her at a disadvantage. I left the ultimate choice up to her and she did change.

 

This is the world we live in. Sometimes we have to play the game.

[Lady Florida.]

Except that this isn't true.  Many workplaces have dress codes/appearance standards.  I don't know that many places have codes about eyeliner (probably not), but the principle is that sometimes people can tell you that you can/can't do something with your own appearance.

 

In a perfect world, you would be able to choose an employer that doesn't have a dress code you disagree with. Even though that isn't always possible, one can still dress appropriately for each situation, and in this case the dd is not going against a workplace dress code. I'm going to assume Miss Peregrine taught her dd the difference and that her dd is able to understand that difference. 

 

At 13, he can have some input about what she puts on her face (but, for the love, do not use the word trashy!). At 16, body autonomy is a BIG deal and Dad needs to respect that she isn't a child and that she makes her own decisions about her own face. This is a hill to die on for her.

 

:iagree: At 13, I'd hope my dd doesn't want to wear makeup yet, but if she did I'd be teaching her how to apply it appropriately. Appropriately also means in line with the current fashion, and winged eyeliner currently fits that description. At 16, she can wear her makeup however she wants. As for trashy, it is absolutely a word that needs to be stricken from all descriptions of females.

 

PS I don't have a teenager yet, so take my advise with a grain of salt.

 

 

I don't either, but I remember being one very vividly. ;)

 

Neither do I (and I never will) but I've been one. I also was very involved in raising my now-28 yo niece after my brother and her mother split up and both decided that parenting their child was inconvenient and interfered with their new social lives. I even helped her learn how to use makeup when she hit her teen years. ;)

 

You can't separate your appearance from your body. If my dh tried to tell me (he never would, but for the sake of argument) how to dress, how to do my hair, how to wear my makeup, he would be controlling my body. 

 

Exactly! Dh will tell me what he likes (usually by complimenting hair, clothes, or makeup he finds attractive on me) but would never tell me what to do with my body - that is what I should or should not wear. Along the same lines I don't care for male facial hair but I would never tell him to shave off his mustache. Just as my body is mine, his is also his.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Lady Florida.

[Guest]

I answered once already, but here I go again...

 

This may have been covered already, but I am stuck on the word trashy.

 

Please. That is a terrible word choice. It implies that there are women who are trash, and that your DD looks like them. Women are never trash, they are never less than, and using that kind of language promotes the notion that some women are trashy and some are not. I find that type of language as offensive as some people find more traditional curse words. And I learned it from my parents - who didn't use words like trashy about people either. There is a way to get his point across without calling other humans trash. That's just ugly. And I'm not talking about the eyeliner.

 

 

If you feel the same, please ask your DH to refrain using that kind of language with his teen DD. She hears every word he says, and she's internalizing it all. It impacts her view of herself, and other women.

Amen!! Even if a woman is selling her body on the corner, she is not trash!! To compare a human being with a piece of garbage to be thrown out and forgotten is disgusting.

[Greta]

I answered once already, but here I go again...

 

This may have been covered already, but I am stuck on the word trashy.

 

Please. That is a terrible word choice. It implies that there are women who are trash, and that your DD looks like them. Women are never trash, they are never less than, and using that kind of language promotes the notion that some women are trashy and some are not. I find that type of language as offensive as some people find more traditional curse words. And I learned it from my parents - who didn't use words like trashy about people either. There is a way to get his point across without calling other humans trash. That's just ugly. And I'm not talking about the eyeliner.

 

 

If you feel the same, please ask your DH to refrain using that kind of language with his teen DD. She hears every word he says, and she's internalizing it all. It impacts her view of herself, and other women.

 

 

Yes, this is so well said.  Thank you!

[HRAAB]

I do have to say if my dh ever called one of dds trashy, there would be hell to pay.  That is one time that I wouldn't give him the consideration of talking to him alone.  He would get called out right in front of the dd he insulted.  I like to be on the same page as dh, but that would cross the line.

 

Also, I think there are areas that belong in the realm of women, and areas that belong in the realm of men.  If I had a son, I wouldn't get involved with his facial hair or whatever else belong to men.  I would let dh take care of that.  Same with women.  There are areas that belong to females and men need to defer to us.  They don't get to tell us how to wear make up, how to dress, or what type of feminine protection buy.  That's our dominion.  Of course, I'm assuming both the father and mother are reasonable people and generally agree about parenting issues.  

 

I do have a negative reaction to men telling women how they should look.

 

That doesn't mean I don't occasionally dress for dh.  I know there are a couple of outfits he really likes on me, and I'm happy to wear those for him.  If he tried to dictate, he would lose that respect very quickly.

[maize]

When my dh gets upset about me not agreeing with him on some parenting issue I point out that while it is true that I am disagreeing with him, it is equally true that he is disagreeing with me. If disagreeing with the other parent is wrong in his opinion then he needs to reconsider his actions.

 

Dh is humble enough to take my point.

[Jyhwkmama]

Why is he grasping for control like this? Has he always been this concerned about her appearance? Has something set him off?

 

IMHO, at 16 eyeliner is her choice alone.

 

Do you expect her to leave home and go to college in 2 years?

[Butter]

Full disclosure: My 16 year old daughter sometimes wears winged eyeliner, pretty much always wears red lipstick, etc.  My 14 year old son currently has blue hair.

 

Make-up is by far not a hill to die on.  It washes off.  And it conveys absolutely nothing about the girl/woman who is wearing it.  I have known girls who sleep around and don't wear a single bit of make-up.  I've known girls all made up and wearing revealing clothes who are virgins (by choice, not for lack of offers).  To call a girl trashy because of her make-up puts the emphasis on the outward appearance and considers nothing for the girl she is.  This is something that drives me crazy.

 

I would tell my husband flat out that daughter is not trashy.  She is wonderful.  She enjoys wearing winged eyeliner because it makes her happy.  The end.  Back off.  Leave her be.  Let her wear make-up how she wants.

[Katy]

Please tell your DD that I just put on winged liner in solidarity.  Even though I'm over 35 and have hooded lids, so it isn't the most flattering look on me.

[El...]

Two thoughts:

 

1.  You don't call my girl "trashy".  That is your hang-up, not hers.  If you'd like to rephrase, that's fine, but you are in for a LOT of conversations with me about your use of that term and what it means about your feelings and thoughts.  Explain yourself, sir!  En garde! 

 

2.  He needs to get to work building their relationship up, post haste.  Perhaps he'd like to take her shooting, and teach her to use a handgun.  Perhaps he'd like to teach her to fix her car.  Perhaps they should build a shed, or set up a new computer, or install surround speakers together.  Whatever the issue is that he sees in her (or fears in her), they need to get closer, so she will be able to listen to him, and he'll be able to understand her. 

 

I draw from my experience with my own Dad on this.  His respect for her as she grows up is very important for their future relationship.

[SKL]

If you see no problem with it, then he needs to get over it.  I think he needs to sit down and really challenge himself on why he is so controlling about this.  He needs to consider what builds and what damages relationships with 16yo daughters.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with them having a civil discussion of where he feels the make-up doesn't work and why, and asking her to respect his wishes in certain contexts e.g. church and professional gathering.  But on the other hand he needs to respect her as a person with opinions of her own.

[Guest]

Behavior can be trashy. Makeup can't be.

[TranquilMind]

Dd16 likes to wear winged eyeliner. She does it well and it looks good on her. I have zero problem with it. Dh said it looks trashy(?) and she is not allowed to wear it.

 

When he sees it, he makes her wipe it off. They get into am argument because it doesn't just wipe off easily. He says,"well, don't put it on in the first place. "

 

She wore it yesterday when she and I went out for a bit. Unbeknownst to me, she snuck upstairs and wiped some off when we got home. I don't condone the sneakiness. I expected her to just face the consequence of wearing it.

 

I think dh, in light of other recent family events, is just grasping control wherever he can. He says I'm not supporting his decision. I'm not.

 

How to resolve something like this?

That seems like such a small battle.  Oh, to have only fought that battle at 16. 

 

Tell him I said to get a grip and let go on the tiny stuff that doesn't matter, and that doesn't affect her future or her character. 

[TranquilMind]

I do have to say if my dh ever called one of dds trashy, there would be hell to pay.  That is one time that I wouldn't give him the consideration of talking to him alone.  He would get called out right in front of the dd he insulted.  I like to be on the same page as dh, but that would cross the line.

 

Also, I think there are areas that belong in the realm of women, and areas that belong in the realm of men.  If I had a son, I wouldn't get involved with his facial hair or whatever else belong to men.  I would let dh take care of that.  Same with women.  There are areas that belong to females and men need to defer to us.  They don't get to tell us how to wear make up, how to dress, or what type of feminine protection buy.  That's our dominion.  Of course, I'm assuming both the father and mother are reasonable people and generally agree about parenting issues.  

 

I do have a negative reaction to men telling women how they should look.

 

That doesn't mean I don't occasionally dress for dh.  I know there are a couple of outfits he really likes on me, and I'm happy to wear those for him.  If he tried to dictate, he would lose that respect very quickly.

 

Yeah, he has no business talking to her about makeup.  This is really about something else, not the makeup.  Is there a new boyfriend he doesn't like or something? 

 

I don't think my husband would notice if I were wearing a ball gown or a pair of paint-stained yoga pants.  He is kind of awesome like that.  I can honestly say I have never dressed for him and he would not notice distinctions enough to express a preference.  He is nerdy and oblivious about that stuff.

 

[MeghansMom]

Your question is how to resolve this. 

 

I would say YOU have to take lead on this. 

 

Don't blame your dd for 'sneakiness' and not 'taking the consequences'. Blame yourself for not being her support & her defense. She make a choice knowing you wouldn't defend her. 

 

In the future you need to rise to her defense & she needs to know you have her back always. Then she'll not sneak. 

 

I think you need to tell your dh to knock it off and to stop commenting on what is an almost grown woman's appearance. It is not appropriate for a man to judge a woman's appearance like this.  Make it a big huge deal because it is a big huge deal.

 

Men's judgements of women's appearance is a big problem for me - esp the idea that a certain kind of makeup signals sexual availability.  Dude, don't even go there. 

 

 

 

This. :iagree:

[Mama Geek]

IMO it would be better for your daughter to see you and your dh on the same page.  Figure out what that page is and support each other on it.

[Guest]

IMO it would be better for your daughter to see you and your dh on the same page. Figure out what that page is and support each other on it.

Disagree!!! I think it is better for her to see that sometimes people are flawed and unreasonable, even Dad. It would be best for her if Dad came to her and explained that it can be hard for a man to see his daughter growing up and to apologize for being an ass. And then he needs to get to work fixing the damage he has done!

[ErinE]

IMO it would be better for your daughter to see you and your dh on the same page. Figure out what that page is and support each other on it.

I would not "get on the same page" with my husband if his stance was so extreme. Winged eyeliner, for a 16-year old girl, is not something worth damaging the parent-child relationship.

[SparklyUnicorn]

 Authority figures can tell you how to control your body while you are under their authority, but it is your choice whose authority (if any) you will be under.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm confused by this line.  What exactly does it mean? 

[SparklyUnicorn]

IMO it would be better for your daughter to see you and your dh on the same page.  Figure out what that page is and support each other on it.

 

I agree so mom should tell dad what the deal is.

 

:laugh:

[Evergreen State Sue]

I did defend her. Dh could tell she wiped it off and started a huge argument. I told him I didn't care if she wore it like that. In fact, I hadn't even noticed because it's not on my radar. He always complains about it and I always say I don't care. Yesterday it became a huge thing.

 

I think it became a huge thing because not only is your daughter not abiding by her father's wishes, but you and your husband are not parenting as a unit.  It sounds like your daughter knows you don't care, so she can get away with the makeup around you and knows she needs to be sneaky and wash it off without her father knowing she wore the makeup.  I understand the "pick your battles" thing, but that is a discussion you need to have privately with your dh, and whatever is decided needs to be agreed on by both of you as a united front.  One of you may not agree, but it has to come across as one way or the other and both the husband and wife need to support the parental decision. 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

It's not best for marriages to support our spouse in unreasonable behavior.

 

The OP has a good idea why he's doing this -- a feeling of loss of control in the home, overall, and emotional fallout from changes happening. He's picked the wrong target for his angst. He shouldn't be aided in persisting.

 

What's better in the long run is to be a truth-teller in a spouse's life. Not arguing or fighting, or letting drama escalate, but just quietly and firmly standing the SANE ground. "No, she's not trashy, I'm not supporting you on this tactic because I wouldn't treat any young woman this way. I think you'll regret it, so I'm not helping you do it."

Literally walk away from the discussion; don't let him turn it on you. Don't be a whipping post. He'll have to take the consequences of his actions on his own (which will be lack of daughter's respect, escalated sneaking on her part, etc.) Also, don't let dd triangulate you against DH. She'll see that you agree with her, and that you're right, but that doesn't mean she can make you fight with your husband.

 

My DH and I have been through some high-emotion times. People do lose their minds and grasp at straws. It's better to look back on the other person being reliably reasonable and calm when we do that. This is how we learn to trust each other, and it's how children learn to face truth with strength.

[fairfarmhand]

Perhaps dad needs to hear how women and girls hear these messages.

 

"trashy" is a "woman who is asking for it." (I don't embrace that idea, but that's how it comes across.)

 

Does he want his dd to be able to come see him when/if a young man treats her badly? Or will she feel shame and embarrassment because her choice of makeup or clothes or whatever made her seem to be less classy and the boy thought she was "asking for it." This is the message his words and behavior are sending to his daughter.

 

Or will she be able to demand proper behavior from young men around her because whatever she's wearing she is worthy of proper treatment.

 

When ladies are labeled trashy or whatever because of their makeup hair clothing or whatever, the unspoken message is that they are deserving of bad treatment from men. He probably doesn't realize that he's telling his daughter that, but he is.

[Miss Peregrine]

Please tell your DD that I just put on winged liner in solidarity. Even though I'm over 35 and have hooded lids, so it isn't the most flattering look on me.

Yes, hooded eyes here, too. I'm jealous that she has the perfect eyes for them.

[Guest]

I'm not a makeup wearer, and I have only sons, but isn't this sorta the latest eye makeup craze right now anyway? It's not like she's the only one doing it. Styles change all the time, even in makeup. (Thank goodness, or we'd all still be wearing electric blue eye shadow all the time! *shudder*)

[mellifera33]

IMO it would be better for your daughter to see you and your dh on the same page.  Figure out what that page is and support each other on it.

 

Because if there's anything better than having one parent tell you that you look trashy, it's having both parents tell you that you look trashy!

[Miss Peregrine]

I can't keep up with the posts, lol.

 

Trust me when I say I have defended her. I told him last night very matter-of-factly that I do not support his punishment(no makeup for x amount of days) or even his stance on this. I told him that he is damaging their relationship further. That this is not a character issue for her but the way he is treating her is bad character on his part.

 

All I got was a text this morning that we need to be a team, with a subtext that I need to back him up.

[J&JMom]

While I wouldn't fight over something as temporary as eyeliner, I would put my foot down on piercings and tattoos while I was footing the bill (any bill - college included). I cringe whenever I see those gasket things in the ears.  However, I might also ask my boys (if and when the time comes) to respect MY home enough to wear clothes properly (no low hanging jeans, profane message Ts as well as a shirt in public rooms). I would like to also ask their guests to do the same as I don't want to see any cleavage, bra straps or bare midriffs/butt cheeks in my house either - but I understand this will be near impossible to enforce.   But anything temporary- hair color, style, nail polish, etc, -- knock yourself out, kid.

Edited June 23, 2016 by J&JMom