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Disagreement with dh over makeup.


Miss Peregrine
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Dd16 likes to wear winged eyeliner. She does it well and it looks good on her. I have zero problem with it. Dh said it looks trashy(?) and she is not allowed to wear it.

 

When he sees it, he makes her wipe it off. They get into am argument because it doesn't just wipe off easily. He says,"well, don't put it on in the first place. "

 

She wore it yesterday when she and I went out for a bit. Unbeknownst to me, she snuck upstairs and wiped some off when we got home. I don't condone the sneakiness. I expected her to just face the consequence of wearing it.

 

I think dh, in light of other recent family events, is just grasping control wherever he can. He says I'm not supporting his decision. I'm not.

 

How to resolve something like this?

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I'm going to have to agree with the others. I can't imagine monitoring the makeup of a sixteen year old.

 

Why does he feel like he needs to have control over someone who is one the verge of adulthood? Are there other issues, and was the makeup just his breaking point? If that's it, then it goes deeper than just eyeliner. If not, he needs to back off.

Edited by Lady Florida.
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It sounds like your husband needs to deal emotionally with whatever family events are upsetting him and making him feel out-of-control. Would counseling be an option?

 

And if I were you, I would put my foot down and tell my husband to knock-it off. She's 16. Does he really think he can micromanage the makeup application of a 16-yr-old? Is this really the relationship he wants to build with her when she's 2 years from being completely on her own?

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" Dh, dd is at a time in her life that she really needs to "hear" what her parents have to say. Choosing to make a big deal about makeup means that she's going to tune you out all of the time. Even about important stuff like work, friends, and major life choices. Is makeup such a big deal that you want to have her tune you out over it? I know you think it looks ridiculous. So let her look ridiculous. Not a reason to cause strife with our child."

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Well, you know how those girls with winged liner can be, IYKWIM? <sarcastic>

 

My mother was never anti makeup and to her dismay I didn't wear makeup.  Funny right?  But where she would get wigged out sometimes?  Long earrings.  LOL  So silly.  So I'd buy them and put them on when I wasn't home.

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Plus, you already know she'll just do it anyway.  Now if it were a super dangerous behavior I might get a little nuttier about it, but is it really?

 

He certainly needs to learn to pick his battles, but maybe it would help to talk to him about what's really bothering him.

 

I'm guessing it goes something like this:

 

eyeliner = trashy-> the wrong guys -> premarital sex -> pregnancy

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My mother was never anti makeup and to her dismay I didn't wear makeup.  Funny right?  But where she would get wigged out sometimes?  Long earrings.  LOL  So silly.  So I'd buy them and put them on when I wasn't home.

 

Yeah, I think for many parents anything can replace eyeliner in my equation above:

long earrings, short skirts, lipstick, certain music

 

Parents are really worried about things down the line...drugs, pregnancy, etc., but they are terrified to entertain that and focus on anything that might imagine could be a precursor.

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He certainly needs to learn to pick his battles, but maybe it would help to talk to him about what's really bothering him.

 

I'm guessing it goes something like this:

 

eyeliner = trashy-> the wrong guys -> premarital sex -> pregnancy

 

Yes, but where exactly is the logical connection?  KWIM? 

 

Not claiming you said there is a logical connection.  These are worries we all have.  i don't think make up is something that in and of itself leads to these things.

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Yes, but where exactly is the logical connection?  KWIM? 

 

Not claiming you said there is a logical connection.  These are worries we all have.  i don't think make up is something that in and of itself leads to these things.

 

Oh sorry, my answer is "no connection at all." I meant he needs to deal with what his real concern is rather than some weird spurious association that he has, but the first step is recognizing that association.  Hopefully, even he would see the ridiculousness of the equation if it was put in front of him.

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At 16, she is in charge of her own face and he needs to stop. And, calling anything 'trashy' is a terrible message to send. It is just a fashion trend and has nothing to do with her availability for sex.

Edited by Moxie
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At 16, she is in charge of her own face and he needs to stop. And, calling anything 'trashy' is a terrible message to send. It is just a fashion trend and has nothing to do with her availability for sex.

Exactly. My dd who is 20 and sometimes wears winged eyeliner doesn't even date, her choice. She hasn't met the right guy and is focusing on college right now.

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I don't think she was being sneaky to wipe some off when you got home. She was appropriately choosing her battle.

 

I don't bring up certain topics with certain people because I don't want those things we disagree on to dominate our relationship.

 

Imo, I don't think anyone should care about when she puts on or when she takes off makeup.

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Your question is how to resolve this.

 

I would say YOU have to take lead on this.

 

Don't blame your dd for 'sneakiness' and not 'taking the consequences'. Blame yourself for not being her support & her defense. She make a choice knowing you wouldn't defend her.

 

In the future you need to rise to her defense & she needs to know you have her back always. Then she'll not sneak.

 

I think you need to tell your dh to knock it off and to stop commenting on what is an almost grown woman's appearance. It is not appropriate for a man to judge a woman's appearance like this. Make it a big huge deal because it is a big huge deal.

 

Men's judgements of women's appearance is a big problem for me - esp the idea that a certain kind of makeup signals sexual availability. Dude, don't even go there.

 

 

I did defend her. Dh could tell she wiped it off and started a huge argument. I told him I didn't care if she wore it like that. In fact, I hadn't even noticed because it's not on my radar. He always complains about it and I always say I don't care. Yesterday it became a huge thing.

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I don't think she was being sneaky to wipe some off when you got home. She was appropriately choosing her battle.

 

I don't bring up certain topics with certain people because I don't want those things we disagree on to dominate our relationship.

 

Imo, I don't think anyone should care about when she puts on or when she takes off makeup.

I see what you mean about her choosing her battle.

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I'm going to respectfully disagree with most of y'all on this.

 

I think that you should respect your husband's decision on this.  It is something that he obviously feels strongly about, so why make a big deal of it?  By allowing her to go against his wishes you might be teaching your daughter to disrespect/disobey him.

 

I'm not a fan of winged eyeliner, but I don't think it looks "trashy".  I think that it looks like special occasion makeup -- for example prom, but not everyday going to classes. Maybe y'all can come to a compromise that she can wear it for certain occasions/activities but not every day?

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I'm going to respectfully disagree with most of y'all on this.

 

I think that you should respect your husband's decision on this.  It is something that he obviously feels strongly about, so why make a big deal of it?  By allowing her to go against his wishes you might be teaching your daughter to disrespect/disobey him.

 

I'm not a fan of winged eyeliner, but I don't think it looks "trashy".  I think that it looks like special occasion makeup -- for example prom, but not everyday going to classes. Maybe y'all can come to a compromise that she can wear it for certain occasions/activities but not every day?

 

Because it's ridiculous to tell teenage girls that their bodies are their own and no one else can tell them what to do with their bodies, and then try to control their bodies over something as trivial as eyeliner?

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My 17 yo dd loves to do winged eyeliner also. It is just a makeup trend.  I would talk to your dh in private about it and have a discussion about hills he is willing to die on.  Does he really want to make this one of his hills?

 

I agree with this, but I would extend this to your daughter as well.  Is this a hill that she wants to die on, even at the expense of causing a rift in her relationship with her father?

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I'm going to respectfully disagree with most of y'all on this.

 

I think that you should respect your husband's decision on this. It is something that he obviously feels strongly about, so why make a big deal of it? By allowing her to go against his wishes you might be teaching your daughter to disrespect/disobey him.

 

I'm not a fan of winged eyeliner, but I don't think it looks "trashy". I think that it looks like special occasion makeup -- for example prom, but not everyday going to classes. Maybe y'all can come to a compromise that she can wear it for certain occasions/activities but not every day?

I don't think this approach is correct at all. This is not really about eyeliner. Other situations have your Dh upset. Those are the ones he needs to deal with, not a nit picking battle over an older teen's perfectly appropriate makeup choices.

Some men (not all by any means) have a hard time with teens, especially girls. The problem is not usually with the girl, makeup, fashionable clothes, etc. The problem is with a dad trying to control what is out of his control: kids growing up and making their own choices, good or bad.

Growing up, it was my mother who went nuts over control about clothes, makeup, curfews. It deeply impacted our relationship and to this day, I tell her as little as possible about my life. Do not wreck a relationship over outward appearance.

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I think that you should either take her side and tell him to knock it off (privately), or you should ignore her wearing it with only him around.  I don't look at this as sneakiness at 16.  She'd be basically considered an adult in my house, as long as she was handling the responsibility well.  Your DH is being unreasonably controlling, and she's humoring him in his presence to avoid conflict, but being who she wants to be (trendy) at other times.

 

I would absolutely not allow him to punish her for wearing the trendiest makeup look of the moment.  If he did I would say "Absolutely not," in front of DD to DH, and if he had an issue with it I would insist on family counseling. There's a limit to the amount of unreasonable control I'd allow my DH to have over the kids, and controlling her makeup to the point of punishment would be riding the line of abuse in my book.  Especially for something that doesn't at all look trashy.  Especially if he's being emotionally abusive by calling her trashy.

 

Now if she is making self-destructive choices in many areas of life, being entitled, dealing with addiction or eating disorders or other areas of control such as promiscuity (and I'd see a difference between being self-destructive there as well), then I'd control her every action up to and including sending her to a makeup-free boarding school. But it doesn't sound as if that's the case at all.  It sounds as if she's a sweet girl who wants to look like her generation's version of pretty and also doesn't want to upset her dad.

 

Does he really think it's trashy?  Is it trashy on celebrities and in every makeup ad, or is it just trashy because she's growing up and he wishes she was still 10?

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Because it's ridiculous to tell teenage girls that their bodies are their own and no one else can tell them what to do with their bodies, and then try to control their bodies over something as trivial as eyeliner?

 

Except that this isn't true.  Many workplaces have dress codes/appearance standards.  I don't know that many places have codes about eyeliner (probably not), but the principle is that sometimes people can tell you that you can/can't do something with your own appearance.

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I agree with this, but I would extend this to your daughter as well.  Is this a hill that she wants to die on, even at the expense of causing a rift in her relationship with her father?

 

On another issue, maybe. But I would make a stand on the issue that a woman's physical appearance (eyeliner!!! she's not going out in a bustier and crotchless drawers) can be judged by a man as trashy and warrants her changing it just to make him happy even though his attitude is in the wrong here. 

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I did defend her. Dh could tell she wiped it off and started a huge argument. I told him I didn't care if she wore it like that. In fact, I hadn't even noticed because it's not on my radar. He always complains about it and I always say I don't care. Yesterday it became a huge thing.

So, just going by what you said here, I don't think this is defending her.  

 

I hear you saying he complained & you say you don't care. That's not enough IMO.

 

A defense is you saying to him: "I need you to stop bothering her and judging her about this. It is not ok for you to do this. She can wear her makeup as she wants to and you need to stop commenting on it."

 

 

Edited by hornblower
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I've worn my eyeliner like this, in heavy black, for almost 25 years. I'm not saying I ain't trashy, but if I am ... it's not the eyeliner! :leaving:

 

I feel like as parents we all have >onething< that we over-react and pick the wrong battle about. It's part of growing as a parent to realize so. Hopefully you and she can see and approach it from that angle. It helps me to frame it like this when my ex-husband is reacting unreasonably LOL.

 

It's part of maturing as a child to understand that, too. It sounds like your daughter is there and ... wasn't so much sneaking as asserting her own control as appropriately as she knew how to, while still allowing her father to maintain his. And by "his" control I mean the only thing he CAN control which is his opinion and reaction (including consequences). Knowing how he felt, she removed it in his presence. Knowing how you felt, she wore it in yours. I don't think she did anything wrong here, other than a crappy job of removing it completely LOL.

 

Until her parents are on the same page, she's making a reasonable compromise for all parties. I'd resolve it by starting there. YOU need to advocate for her (privately) to DH and see WHERE (not if) he's willing to compromise with her. Then turn them loose to work it out between them. SHE can then run with her inclination to already remove it in his presence, and extend that to family gatherings or dates or whatever will leave him feeling more comfortable with her wearing it.

 

I don't agree with him on the eyeliner, but I think most people have ideas of what they find immodest or trashy - and that's actually ok! What isn't okay is to push those opinions on certain people (e.g., near-adults) or allow them to cloud our opinion of someone. This is something so many of us work through, long into adulthood. I agree with her that it's reasonable to wear it outside of his presence, but I think she should also not let this be a hill SHE dies on. Encouraging her to respect the wishes of her dad will go a long way in other areas.

 

As women, we may not find the look to promote a certain image but here's a man suggesting that it might. She doesn't have to believe him or agree with him, but she'd be prudent to at least hear him out with an open mind. (And he, her, as well.) There are likely to be times where his perspective as a man will shed light in her life, so it's important to open and prop open that door!  Likewise, there are opportunities where our kids challenge us to be better. It's imperative we accept those and model to them how important it is to grow as people.

 

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Except that this isn't true.  Many workplaces have dress codes/appearance standards.  I don't know that many places have codes about eyeliner (probably not), but the principle is that sometimes people can tell you that you can/can't do something with your own appearance.

 

I guess it all comes down to which message you'd want your teenage daughter to take away from the situation. Personally, I'd go with "Your body is your own, and no one can tell you what to do with it" over "Any authority figure can control your body, so just give up the illusion that you have any say in the matter."

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Dd16 likes to wear winged eyeliner. She does it well and it looks good on her. I have zero problem with it. Dh said it looks trashy(?) and she is not allowed to wear it.

 

When he sees it, he makes her wipe it off. They get into am argument because it doesn't just wipe off easily. He says,"well, don't put it on in the first place. "

 

She wore it yesterday when she and I went out for a bit. Unbeknownst to me, she snuck upstairs and wiped some off when we got home. I don't condone the sneakiness. I expected her to just face the consequence of wearing it.

 

I think dh, in light of other recent family events, is just grasping control wherever he can. He says I'm not supporting his decision. I'm not.

 

How to resolve something like this?

 

Did your dh say that it looks trashy or is that your interpretation of what he meant?  If he told her that to her face, that is inappropriate, imo.  

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In my marriage I would privately talk to my DH and figure out why he feels the way he does and ways that we can make this work for all of us.  I would not allow my children to do something behind my DH's back just because I thought he was being ridiculous.  But we have a relationship such that we are able to talk things out.  There are times one or the other of us takes a hard line stance on something that seems trivial to the other, and through discussion we are able to figure out where we are both coming from.  I also encourage my children to talk to their dad if they think he is being unfair.  Typically this would be a discussion when tensions aren't high so that it doesn't just turn into a fight. Sometimes they even write out their arguments to support their side.

 

Makeup is not my hill to die on, but my DD doesn't wear much except on stage.  I am actually the more conservative between DH and I on what is okay for DD, so I appreciate that he respects me enough to talk to me about it rather than just allowing DD to do something I have asked her not to.

 

If there are underlying issues those really need to be dealt with as a separate issue.

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Winged eyeliner is very popular with young women right now! It's not trashy unless accompanied by tons of other bright,heavy makeup, heels, a short skirt, and everything else that may show up on a street corner in a red light district. 

 

My guess is that your DH is sad about his little girl growing up and eyeliner makes it more real and he doesn't want to think about it and if she just washes it off he can pretend she's 10!

 

I would tell my DH that we have 2 more years to raise DD into a person who can make great choices on her own and we need to focus on the important things. If we focus on the petty things, she'll think everything we say is stupid and she'll be less likely to listen to us when she turns 18 and doesn't have to.

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I agree with this, but I would extend this to your daughter as well. Is this a hill that she wants to die on, even at the expense of causing a rift in her relationship with her father?

At 13, he can have some input about what she puts on her face (but, for the love, do not use the word trashy!). At 16, body autonomy is a BIG deal and Dad needs to respect that she isn't a child and that she makes her own decisions about her own face. This is a hill to die on for her.

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Here's the thing about this battle.

 

 When a parent makes a big deal over what a teen perceives as a petty matter of opinion, the teen begins to discount that parent's input about all kinds of really important things. It's hard for a teen to tell the difference between Dad's opinion on what should be heeded about makeup vs. Dad's opinion on premarital sex or drugs or something.

 

There's a huge difference between telling your teen that "I don't like that look. It's too much makeup for a pretty face, and I think it isn't dignified. I wish you'd use that style only for prom or something like that. But it's up to you" vs. "That makeup makes you look like a tramp. I forbid it."

 

My dd went through the same phase. And a couple weeks ago she came to me and said "I figured out a nother way to do my eyeliner that doesn't take so long to apply!"

 

She's getting more reasonable about it.Now if we could figure out a way to get her to spend less than 90 minutes getting out the door in the morning we'd be in great shape.

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So, just going by what you said here, I don't think this is defending her.

 

I hear you saying he complained & you say you don't care. That's not enough IMO.

 

A defense is you saying to him: "I need you to stop bothering her and judging her about this. It is not ok for you to do this. She can wear her makeup as she wants to and you need to stop commenting on it."

 

 

I've said many variations of this. Really. Saying I said,"I don't care" is the short version. Lol

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I would have a private conversation with dh and basically tell him he needs to knock it off. I also would make it clear to him that I don't agree and will have dds back on this one.

 

I have two teen dds and there is no way that would fly here.

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I'm going to respectfully disagree with most of y'all on this.

 

I think that you should respect your husband's decision on this. It is something that he obviously feels strongly about, so why make a big deal of it? By allowing her to go against his wishes you might be teaching your daughter to disrespect/disobey him.

 

I'm not a fan of winged eyeliner, but I don't think it looks "trashy". I think that it looks like special occasion makeup -- for example prom, but not everyday going to classes. Maybe y'all can come to a compromise that she can wear it for certain occasions/activities but not every day?

If my daughter is 16, she's less than two years away from adulthood. I am her mother. If I don't defend her in such a small thing, how can she rely on me for the big things? I would draw a line in the sand and make it clear, dh is being ridiculous. He may not like the makeup, but he needs to respect her choice.

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