Evaluations for slow processing speed, difficulty with dates, time, etc.

[Squawky Acres]

I would like to start looking into testing for my 9-year-old (rising 4th grader).  She speaks and reads like an adult, and is exceptionally good at languages, writing, art, music and science -- but in matters of math, following directions, and  day-to-day living, she sometimes gives me blank stares, and becomes defensive about why she needs to know this anyway.  She cannot figure out dates on a calendar, forgets right and left, and is shaky at reading clocks and counting coins.  In co-op, she raises her hand to answer a history question, but then sometimes has trouble coming out with the words for what she would like to say.  Her processing speed when asked a question, or asked to do something, is on the slow side.  

 

Other concerned moms have asked if she might have a learning disability, which I have dismissed because of her very high standardized test scores (even in math -- as thankfully right/left and calendar reading are not a big part of the standardized test) and high performance in other areas.  But now that my husband has been tutoring her in another subject for a year, and is noticing the same things, we agree that we should have some sort of an evaluation done so that we can better understand her and meet her needs.

 

I haven't talked with our doctor yet, as it is hard to articulate what is wrong, and hard to decide IF something is wrong, as she is such a high-achieving kid.  But I have to think that in a classroom, where processing speed and answering questions is a lot more important, she would not be able to achieve as much, and the problems would become more apparent.

 

Are there any ideas on where to begin, or how to explain this?

[wapiti]

"Processing speed" in the world of ed psych typically refers to the motor speed to copy letters from one paper to another (coding and symbol search subtests) and that doesn't necessarily sound like an issue with your dd if she does very well on timed standardized tests.  Off the top of my head - auditory processing may be something to evaluate.  My sense is that these types of speed can be related, but different kids have different specific weaknesses.  It sounds like there's a possibility of a 2e situation.

 

I'd look for an ed psych or neuropsych.  (FWIW, in my area, peds are not typically great sources for these types of referrals.)

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree, your pediatrician may have no clue at all how to help (although they may not admit that).  If you need a referral for insurance purposes then you may have to go through the pediatrician but I would do research first and come at this from a place of knowledge so you can get them to give you a referral that might actually help.  If you don't need a referral, I would start with a neuropsychologist, like wapiti said.  Call around, do research on the ones most highly recommended in your area, and try comparing apples to apples on what they will offer.  You need someone who will not only run tests but sit with you for an extended period afterwards to go over the results of those tests, not just hand you a bunch of numbers.  Hopefully, they are also willing to answer questions long afterwards, since more questions will probably come up as you have time to absorb whatever the results were.

 

I agree with Wapiti it sounds like your child may be 2e, meaning twice exceptional.  She may be gifted AND have learning challenges.  There are LOTS of posts from parents with 2e kids.  Their strengths frequently mask their challenges until they get into higher grade levels.  Because they learn coping strategies the challenges are not properly identified and addressed which means that even though they may function and in many areas function well, they are not reaching their true potential and the increasing struggles may eventually convince them that they are stupid when in fact the opposite is true.  A neuropsychologist should be able to tweak out quite a bit for both her strengths and her struggle areas.

 

She may very well also have CAPD (Central Auditory Processing Disorder) which means she can hear just fine but her brain isn't processing the sounds efficiently.  For that she needs an evaluation through an audiologist, not a standard hearing screening.

[prairiewindmomma]

I would explain it just as you did to us.  Ds has the same issue, and the slow processing speed showed up in testing and in conversations with the tester.  His motor output is also slow, but his cognitive thinking is as well. Interestingly, it increases a bit with rhythm and as we continue in conversation on the same topic. It takes a bit to get those synapses firing.

 

ETA: He also has issues with l/r, dates, time, coins....but also math.  He is gifted in other areas.

Edited June 22, 2016 by kbeal

[Squawky Acres]

"Processing speed" in the world of ed psych typically refers to the motor speed to copy letters from one paper to another (coding and symbol search subtests) and that doesn't necessarily sound like an issue with your dd if she does very well on timed standardized tests.  Off the top of my head - auditory processing may be something to evaluate.  My sense is that these types of speed can be related, but different kids have different specific weaknesses.  It sounds like there's a possibility of a 2e situation.

 

I'd look for an ed psych or neuropsych.  (FWIW, in my area, peds are not typically great sources for these types of referrals.)

 

Oh, thank you for explaining that.  I think I just mean auditory processing speed.  She seems to do well processing things on paper.

 

I think it is definitely a 2e situation.  I have not had her tested for being gifted, as that part is clear to me.  I just need to find what else is going on.

[Squawky Acres]

I agree with Wapiti it sounds like your child may be 2e, meaning twice exceptional.  She may be gifted AND have learning challenges.  There are LOTS of posts from parents with 2e kids.  Their strengths frequently mask their challenges until they get into higher grade levels.  Because they learn coping strategies the challenges are not properly identified and addressed which means that even though they may function and in many areas function well, they are not reaching their true potential and the increasing struggles may eventually convince them that they are stupid when in fact the opposite is true.  A neuropsychologist should be able to tweak out quite a bit for both her strengths and her struggle areas.

 

 

 

I need to start reading through the 2e threads.  I just never thought that applied to us, as her learning differences have not been much of a problem for me in our homeschool.  I have just worked around them, and figured that all children learn in different ways.  While this has allowed her to be successful at school for the moment, I see that this may have just been encouraging more coping strategies.  My husband does not work around "learning differences" when he teaches, and has been very frustrated by some of these issues.

 

She may very well also have CAPD (Central Auditory Processing Disorder) which means she can hear just fine but her brain isn't processing the sounds efficiently.  For that she needs an evaluation through an audiologist, not a standard hearing screening.

 

Oh yes -- this.  About two years ago, I became convinced that she simply wasn't hearing the questions and instructions, so I took her to an ear doctor.  I was actually shocked to learn that her hearing was perfectly fine.  The doctor joked about how hearing and LISTENING were two different things, and encouraged her to listen to her mother.  I kept feeling like there was a missing link between what she was hearing and what she was processing . . . or else she just doesn't listen.  It is difficult to tell.  

Edited June 22, 2016 by Squawky Acres

[Arcadia]

I think it is definitely a 2e situation. I have not had her tested for being gifted, as that part is clear to me. I just need to find what else is going on.

My slower processing speed kid has no sense of time. He wears a watch and has a planner. The gifted part can compensate for academics until it can't compensate anymore. We did above grade level testing until our kid can no longer get the 99th percentile. Then we paid for WISC testing as a baseline. Find someone used to testing 2E kids.

 

My kid is also easily distracted. If anyone speak to him face to face, his auditory processing is good. If the person is not in his line of sight, he gets distracted. He purposely choose a front row seat facing the teacher for outside classes. He has problems staying attentive if bored, well within the norms for a 9 year old at time of evaluation.

 

Because he has no sense of time, I had to explicitly teach him time management and task management skills. The EF skills that come naturally for my oldest has to be explicitly taught and practice by my youngest. He is so much better at managing homework than a year ago.

[PeterPan]

 

I need to start reading through the 2e threads.  I just never thought that applied to us, as her learning differences have not been much of a problem for me in our homeschool.  I have just worked around them, and figured that all children learn in different ways.  While this has allowed her to be successful at school for the moment, I see that this may have just been encouraging more coping strategies.  My husband does not work around "learning differences" when he teaches, and has been very frustrated by some of these issues.

 

 

Oh yes -- this.  About two years ago, I became convinced that she simply wasn't hearing the questions and instructions, so I took her to an ear doctor.  I was actually shocked to learn that her hearing was perfectly fine.  The doctor joked about how hearing and LISTENING were two different things, and encouraged her to listen to her mother.  I kept feeling like there was a missing link between what she was hearing and what she was processing . . . or else she just doesn't listen.  It is difficult to tell.  

 

 

Has anyone done an APD screening on her?  If you find a university audiology dept or a private audiologist who specializes in APD, you can get her screened.  Around here it's only $35 at the university.  I'd get that done sooner, rather than later.  Some private audiologists will want a psych eval and SLP evals.  If you do a clinical psych, you're not going to get all the testing you need.  I took my dd (very similar) to a neuropsych.  As you're saying, 4th grade was when the rubber met the road and it was just UNDENIABLE that something was going on.  The neuropsych did your normal stuff (ADHD screenings, IQ, etc.), but he also ran some testing on things like word retrieval.  For her it was VERY low!  So when you combined the poor word retrieval (typical of apraxia and dyslexia, but she's not diagnosed with those) with her low processing speed, it's a mess!

 

So you'll want to make sure you go to a combination of practitioners that gets all these areas hit.  Could be neuropsych, could be SLP plus clinical psych, whatever.  Definitely an audiologist or someone to do the SCAN3 for the APD screening.  I finally took my dd, because it was like this elephant in the room.  In her case she was borderline, like one point shy.  The audiologist said it's a relative weakness, something she needs to compensate for.

 

When you say coping strategies, you make it sound bad.  They're actually GOOD!  It's just you want the right WORDS for things, so you can know WHY you're doing this and be really intentional.  It's OK to have strategies and a plan!  Not everything gets fixed, honestly.  A LOT of this is going to be about knowing how her brain and body work and working WITH THEM.  It's that transition from teaching a theoretical child to teaching the child in front of you.  And it's good!  My dd really blossomed when we got evals and were able to make those changes.  Hopefully you can get some evals and have that happen too.  :)

[kbutton]

Yes, I heartily agree with the suggestions this could be CAPD. We have that here, and it's a really big deal. We go through stages of "better listening," but the reality is that "better listening" is HARD when you have CAPD. It has to be a combo deal--strategies plus developing the habit of listening. The habit doesn't get formed in the same way when paying attention has so little reward and takes so much effort.  :sad:

 

It's not will-power. It's really diminishing return on investment.