PSA: Parents: Watch your young children and try to prevent accidents

[TheReader]

SKL, yes, exactly. Only I wasn't aware of this until I read of the incident happening, which is why I'm only sharing it now. Thanks to this thread, I did share it just like that "my heart grieves for this family, I never would have imagined an unlocked car in my driveway could be a danger. So very sad!" and no other comment. I put that blurb in the post because the headline of the article just says "child left in hot car" -- only, he wasn't *left* in the car, he was home. Playing. Went out to, they think, look for a toy. And in Houston, under heat advisory temperatures, was there less than 45 minutes. 

 

It's a danger I never thought possible, makes me very glad I lock my doors, and makes me want to make sure my neighbors all realize this. Not because I'm a fear-monger, but because I care about their little toddlers. 

 

HomeAgain, I'm sorry. I don't mean to be a brat, at all. And because of this thread, I did share the post exactly as you said, with a statement of grief, a mention of what happened, and that's all. And I only mentioned what happened in case of those who will see the headline "child left in hot car" and not read the article; the headline is misleading. He wasn't left. He climbed in. That's a big difference, and something I never would have imagined/thought about. 

 

I've had a kid dart away before, too. Almost into traffic. I've had a kid "missing" from my home, disappeared right under my nose, literally. He climbed under the very chair I was sitting in, while we were all watching a movie, and fell asleep. It was shortly after he had gone and let the dog in from outside, and I realized once the movie ended and I couldn't find him that I never saw him come back from that. My mind went a million places, we searched the entire house a million times over, called for him, until finally, finally, finally my DH spotted him under the chair. Still asleep. Even with front & back doors locked, it still terrified me. 

 

And you're right, and I do agree, it's sad that so many vilify the parents when things happen. I don't do that, I hope I'm not coming across as doing that, I absolutely do not place any blame on any of the parents in any of the recent tragedies that have happened. I think we all want to find the "what can I do so that doesn't happen to me?" aspect of any story, and I think sometimes that comes across wrong. And some people, sadly, DO specifically point out the "that won't happen to me because....." and when I see that, I pray it ends up true for them. Because as others have said, we all fall asleep, go to the bathroom, let loose of the hand, sit 5 feet away while the toddler wades in the water, have the child put a hand on the cart or our bag or a pocket or whatever, etc, etc, etc, and yet.....accidents happen. We definitely do have to stop blaming each other, for sure. I don't  mean, at all, that parent-shaming isn't a thing and isn't terrible. It is. 

 

I just also think people-shaming is a problem, and the high rate of "that offends me, watch it" is sad, too. 

[JoJosMom]

Fear p-rn is definitely not  my intent, nor "trying to tell (my neighbors) how to parent." But Lanny did basically what you are saying, post the article with no commentary (he did give a heads-up, since the article was in Spanish, but really he offered no more than a translation of what the article states) and yet....here we all are, lambasting him for exactly that, shaming, judging, fear-p-rning, etc. 

 

My intent would be simply to mention it, because if a month from now the news is coming from my cul-de-sac, and I had said nothing, I would feel absolutely, unforgivably awful. 

 

But perhaps you're right, perhaps "This is so sad! My heart goes out to this family!" and a link is the only acceptable form of posting these days.

 

Which makes me a little sad in a whole different way....it grieves me that even a well meaning post can (and usually does) turn into a perceived attack, judgement, shaming, tormenting thing when no ill intent was ever there. It saddens me that it's now more acceptable to tell one another how to speak, write, type, post because of the "risk" of offending someone, but it's not okay to alert other parents to dangers with real risks that they might not have thought of, because that's interfering with their right to parent blissfully unaware of what might happen (because it likely never will). 

 

Yes, I know I asked and I accept the answer, but Lanny was simply sharing an article. With pretty much no commentary. And he's being blasted for it. No, I don't think you are blasting me -- you answered my question, and I'm grateful. Truly. But the answer makes me sad; society seems very upside down and topsy-turvy to me these days. 

 

An excellent summary of a sadly large percentage of posts on this board, IMO.

[SKL]

When I was a kid, my mom told me of a tot who had gone outside looking for Santa on Christmas Eve.  They found the child the next morning.  Talk about tragic.  This always haunted my mom, but it didn't stop her from being woken by a cop after my 1yo sister got up early, pushed a chair up to the front door, unlocked the out-of-reach lock, and took off.  Thankfully, in those days, having an adventurous child was not a crime on top of everything else.

[J-rap]

Accidents can happen even to the most diligent parents, because we will never see all of the potential accidents.  I was always particularly paranoid about my children and water.  When they were in school (they were in K, 1 and 2 before I homeschooled them), there was always an end-of-the-year field trip to a pool that had one lifeguard, two teachers, and six parents watching.  I would also tag along every year because I never quite trusted anyone else at that age to really observe my child.  Some years later, a child did drown during that field trip.  It was horrible, and that field trip has now been cancelled permanently.

 

But other things I don't always see.  Once, my son got into the powdered bleach in the laundry room and ate it while I was going to the bathroom.  Sometimes I think we are all quite lucky that even more accidents don't happen!

 

I tell you, I'm sometimes almost paranoid thinking about my own children as parents.  They seem so much more single-focused than I was  (which I've always mostly admired!).  I think I will need to just live with them a few years and follow their children around.

[Laurie]

 

 

Which makes me a little sad in a whole different way....it grieves me that even a well meaning post can (and usually does) turn into a perceived attack, judgement, shaming, tormenting thing when no ill intent was ever there. It saddens me that it's now more acceptable to tell one another how to speak, write, type, post because of the "risk" of offending someone, but it's not okay to alert other parents to dangers with real risks that they might not have thought of, because that's interfering with their right to parent blissfully unaware of what might happen (because it likely never will). 

 

 

 

 

It's interesting to me how some people feel "shamed" by some advice meant to protect children.  Do they also feel shame in asking strangers to donate money for funeral or medical expenses?   Often these tragic stories in the news will include information on how people can donate to the family.   And the family might also get a lawyer and sue because surely the business/other party should have anticipated the danger  but not the parent/caregiver.  

 

Edited June 17, 2016 by Laurie

[Mergath]

Fear p-rn is definitely not  my intent, nor "trying to tell (my neighbors) how to parent." But Lanny did basically what you are saying, post the article with no commentary (he did give a heads-up, since the article was in Spanish, but really he offered no more than a translation of what the article states) and yet....here we all are, lambasting him for exactly that, shaming, judging, fear-p-rning, etc. 

 

My intent would be simply to mention it, because if a month from now the news is coming from my cul-de-sac, and I had said nothing, I would feel absolutely, unforgivably awful. 

 

But perhaps you're right, perhaps "This is so sad! My heart goes out to this family!" and a link is the only acceptable form of posting these days.

 

Which makes me a little sad in a whole different way....it grieves me that even a well meaning post can (and usually does) turn into a perceived attack, judgement, shaming, tormenting thing when no ill intent was ever there. It saddens me that it's now more acceptable to tell one another how to speak, write, type, post because of the "risk" of offending someone, but it's not okay to alert other parents to dangers with real risks that they might not have thought of, because that's interfering with their right to parent blissfully unaware of what might happen (because it likely never will). 

 

Yes, I know I asked and I accept the answer, but Lanny was simply sharing an article. With pretty much no commentary. And he's being blasted for it. No, I don't think you are blasting me -- you answered my question, and I'm grateful. Truly. But the answer makes me sad; society seems very upside down and topsy-turvy to me these days. 

 

Oh, come on. How many of us need to be warned not to let a toddler play on the balcony of a multi-story building unsupervised? We're not idiots. 

 

And for the record, thinking something is stupid does not equal being offended.

[SKL]

US product standards are different from those in many countries, too.  I would bet that in buildings intended to house families, it is against US code to have a balcony railing that a child can squeeze through.  So that being the case, US people are not used to the idea that they need to closely inspect every inch of space where their kid may be exploring.  With the exception of stairs, windows, and electrical outlets, whose dangers have been drilled into our heads since we were tots ourselves.

 

My friend from India initially thought we Americans were pretty unconcerned about our kids' well-being, since we don't hang onto them 100% of the time as we travel from place to place.  Well, where she comes from, there's often nothing to stop a kid from falling and breaking his skull off a concrete patio or whatever.  We do things differently here, partly because we are richer and more litigious.  We make sure it would be very hard for a kid to break his head, and then we give most kids a little leeway, even when they are young, so they can learn what we consider developmental skills (like going up & down stairs on their own power).

[EmseB]

I think part of this is living in the modern age where infant and child mortality is relatively low.  It gets said over and over again that the reason life expectancy was shorter in ages past is because so many people died in infancy and childhood, which skewed the average lower.  When I watch period dramas (I know, it's TV, but bear with me), one thing that I think is portrayed well is the general acceptance of death as part of life.  It was something that happened in childbirth, in childhood, in infancy, and from accidents.  Now we have so many ways to mitigate and treat those things we have such a different attitude about death in general.  We think if our kids are born with issues doctors must be able to solve them.  We think our kids won't die in a car accident if we use the right car seat.  We think if they get a bad illness, surely it's treatable in some way.

 

Now we tend to think we can keep kids (and adults) from death if we just do all the right things.  That's a very different attitude from even just 75-100 years ago.  Maybe even more recently than that.  Of course people acknowledge they are going to die in an abstract way, but I think a lot of western society just expects death can be held off until one is old and has lived a full life.  I don't know, maybe I'm projecting.

 

I think it results in a culturally different perception of accidents and tragedies.  We very much want to think that it can't or won't happen to us, so we look for blame or fault when it happens to someone else so we can insulate ourselves and say, "Well, I bolt all my furniture to the wall," or "I keep my kid rear-facing until 4," or "I use just the right crib mattress to prevent SIDS."  All of those are good things, but I think...there is just no way to eliminate all risk and it produces a ton of anxiety to try.

 

I watch my young children, and I try to prevent accidents.  And I am thankful that my life has largely been untouched by severe tragedy.  But I can't pretend to think that it is entirely because of my own vigilance and parenting choices.  Some of it is, sure, but there are so many things out of my control as a mom that I hate to think I'm superior because I haven't experienced a tragic death in my life.

[heartlikealion]

I honestly feel like many people are extra defensive about parent shaming with news stories right now because of the recent gorilla/zoo story and/or alligator/disney story. I think that is why Lanny is getting so much flack for this thread. I don't know if he's even aware of the gorilla or alligator stories.

[Arcadia]

US product standards are different from those in many countries, too. I would bet that in buildings intended to house families, it is against US code to have a balcony railing that a child can squeeze through.

The patio railings in my four storey condo complex are the square grid kind. Very easy for a toddler to climb. The patio door lock was low enough for my big size oldest to unlock when he was two. We had a patio door alarm.

 

Hotels here have climbable balconies too. Hotels tend to give us ground floor units when my kids were younger.

[amsunshine]

Follow on: This was Tuesday night, about 6 P.M., E.S.T.  At that time, it's about to get dark here. The parents had left the hotel room to go out and left the boy with his Nanny.   That was approximately 2 or 3 hours before the 2 year old boy in Walt Disney World with the Alligator.  Both events are very sad.

 

 

I honestly feel like many people are extra defensive about parent shaming with news stories right now because of the recent gorilla/zoo story and/or alligator/disney story. I think that is why Lanny is getting so much flack for this thread. I don't know if he's even aware of the gorilla or alligator stories.

 

 

Yes, he was well aware of the alligator story.

[meena]

I'm not offended by this post or the news article linked. I just think that it doesn't make sense to repost common sense tips as a response to a tragedy, especially on this board where I think it's safe to say most are very involved and proactive parents. I don't think Lanny meant harm, but there's a time, place, and manner to address these types of issues and this probably wasn't the best of any of those.

 

I do appreciate tips that are beyond common sense or maybe out of my experience. There was a mom here who posted a while back whose baby had unknowingly gotten a hair wrapped around her toe and almost ended up losing the toe. I never would have thought to check a fussy baby for that until that mom shared. I've also been made aware of dry drowning because of a blog post I read from a family who almost lost their child due to it. That mom didn't post for months about the incident because her family was so traumatized. Can you imagine if her child did die, and then in the following days, their story and these types of PSAs were all around? IMO it's insensitive to blow up social media in the name of spreading the word right after a death. Instead, I think it makes more sense to say it in person, on the phone, or via email until the family has had some time to mourn--make it a Personal SA rather than a Public one.

[mamiof5]

It sets up unrealistic expectations for parents, and turns accidents, life, into something that is someone's fault.

 

I had a friend a few years ago who was told by her social worker friend that a three-year old should never be out of arms reach.

 

What doesn't often get asked are things like - how safe is safe enough? What is a baseline of accidental incidents that we would see as to be expected taking a responsible level of precautions?

I agree with the fact that yes, we just can't childproof the entire world. Years ago my ds had an unfortunate accident and CPS was called. I remember being so stressed out about their "visit"...was my house proofed enough? Thank goodness it went well (and yes, we do child proof, but I'm sure we could do much more). But still...the article just didn't bug me (other than making me super sad for the family of course). I like reading, a lot. About parenting, homeschooling etc...so an article with all these reminders just doesn't upset me.

[HRAAB]

I honestly feel like many people are extra defensive about parent shaming with news stories right now because of the recent gorilla/zoo story and/or alligator/disney story. I think that is why Lanny is getting so much flack for this thread. I don't know if he's even aware of the gorilla or alligator stories.

This is exactly where I was coming from.

 

Warnings are good, and all parents at times could probably use friendly reminders. At this time where I've read so much parent blaming, it was just one too many. I've known a couple of families that lost children due to accidents, and the guilt they already felt didn't need any help.

 

I know Lanny meant well.

[mamiof5]

This is all well and good, but (honestly asking this, not snarky/sarcastic) what is an acceptable length of time after....?

 

I honestly have NEVER thought of an unlocked car, in my driveway, being a potential hazard to a toddler. Now, my kids are well past that age, and I doubt my neighbors toddlers would climb into my car, and I keep my cars locked anyway. But, there are a LOT of toddlers on my street, I live on a cul-de-sac, and because I am only just now aware of this potential danger, having read of it happening to someone else, I would honestly like to share with my neighbors.

 

How can I do that in a way that doesn't "add to the torment" of the parents to whom the tragedy happened? If I do so without referencing/linking the article?

 

Should I avoid mentioning this to my neighbors because it falls under the "reactionary" and therefore offensive/tormenting category?

 

I just think there's a difference between actual shaming (people who posted about the gorilla incident with "how could they let this happen? those terrible parents!") vs imagined shaming (people who posted things like "parents, good reminder to be super vigilant at the zoo, because accidents can happen, kids can wander away, and the zoo fences might not be as secure as you think"). Are those two posts/statements really equal in terms of parent shaming/adding torment?

 

Even Lanny's post -- maybe because I know him off-board, but I don't see him posting this from a place of judgement. I see him posting this from a "hey, I read this article, it brought up some good points, maybe double check balcony doors because the railings might not be good" kind of a place, even though he didn't really offer any commentary himself. And yet, he didn't offer any commentary other than "I read this article, it's a good reminder we need to be cautious..." -- and yet he's being blasted for being judgy, parent shaming, unhelpful, harmful to the situation/environment/attitude towards parents, etc. For saying nothing other than "parents, I read this, and it reminded me, we can never be too cautious."

 

So in all sincerity -- how careful are we to be, not with our children, but with our words? I get the proactive/reactive scenario you mention; that's a good gauge. But if I've never thought of a particular scenario, until I read about it, is it really not okay to mention in any form? That seems extreme to me; surely there's a way to discuss potential dangers w/o being accused of being shaming.

Couldn't agree more. I don't understand the bashing and unkindness against Lanny either, I am sure he meant no harm. Just for sharing an article?? I sure appreciated the reminder of the stuff listed on the article. I want to believe I have common sense when it comes to parenting...but I'm human, I know I drop the ball. The rudeness and sarcasm in this thread (not all commens, just some) is totally unnecessary :(

[hornblower]

Ibut there's a time, place, and manner to address these types of issues and this probably wasn't the best of any of those.

 

There's never a time & place. There's always a child somewhere that's died in some tragic accident. With a connected world, with billions of people sharing information, when would be a good time?  Never. 

 

We learn from preventable accidents. 

 

I believe the grief and regret and guilt that people carry for preventable accidents is IMO so huge that internet postings cannot possible change them. It's like putting a thousand elephants on the scale & then adding a feather. It's not going to change the weight that they carry. 

 

And for many, the fact that some lesson can be learned, that some future preventable death can be prevented, is the one thing they cling to as they try to cope with their loss. 

[SKL]

I know Lanny didn't mean any harm.  I just felt the wording of the title especially was unfortunate.  I don't know if it was his choice of words or the article's.  Also it could be a cultural difference.

I guess maybe it's like when people say "hug your children tonight" after a tragedy.  "Hug your children" doesn't bother me, "watch your children" gets under my skin.  The environment in the US really is toxic for parents at times.

[Murphy101]

Peopke can mentioned anything they like, mostly free country and all that.

 

But if my neighbor came over and told me I should make sure I keep my van locked bc some random little kid might decide to play in it, get stuck unable to get back out and die of heart stroke, I'd politely smilingly nod to the crazy lady and go about my day, likely still leaving my van unlocked most of the time.

 

I mean seriously, is there some crazy rash of that incident happening on a regular basis? No.

 

Just like I'm sure any number of accidents *could* happen if I go take a nap, but *most likely* the worst that will happen is I'm going to wake up to playdoh ground into the carpet.

 

Not freaking out to prevent any accident ever does not at all mean a life that ended tragically has no value. Nonsense. A life has value regardless of how or when it ends.

[meena]

 

There's never a time & place. There's always a child somewhere that's died in some tragic accident. With a connected world, with billions of people sharing information, when would be a good time? Never.

 

We learn from preventable accidents.

 

I believe the grief and regret and guilt that people carry for preventable accidents is IMO so huge that internet postings cannot possible change them. It's like putting a thousand elephants on the scale & then adding a feather. It's not going to change the weight that they carry.

 

And for many, the fact that some lesson can be learned, that some future preventable death can be prevented, is the one thing they cling to as they try to cope with their loss.

On a global scale, I agree. There are accidents happening everywhere, round the clock so there's never a time when we are safe from touching a painful nerve with someone.

 

I'm talking more about discussion happening on a local scale. Should people from a person's social sphere be framing accidents as cautionary tales on social media hours after it happens? And don't deny the negative power media (social and otherwise) can have on someone who is already in that dark place of despair. The book "So You've Been Publicly Shamed" addresses the additional burden that a cacophony of talking heads adds to a bad situation.

[TheReader]

Murphy, is there a crazy rash of this incident? Well, when one-third of this type of death happen in a manner/due to a factor that doesn't get mentioned....I think it's something to mention. There are huge campaigns about the other side of this (put your computer bag next to baby, out baby's bag in your front seat, take specific action so you don't forget...) -- but those only cover two-thirds of hot car deaths. Why not let my neighbors, all of them parents of kids in the at risk age range, know about the other one-third of the risk?

[Caroline]

My mom was a pediatric ER nurse. So I never leave our cars unlocked in the driveway or garage, always put the parking brake on, even when parked on a flat surface, rode in a car seat in 1970, never let my kids pretend to mow the lawn with daddy, had my porch sides covered with chicken wire so no escaping babies, had all my outlets plugged (and still do even though the youngest is 9 because someone else's kid could come over)... But I don't tell other people to do that.

 

But really, locking your car in the driveway is not too much to ask.

[wintermom]

I don't believe this is true.  

 

People get distracted without being drunk or on drugs.  They can make unintentional mistakes with very tragic consequences. 

 

Lanny mentioned being in the grocery store.  I could make a list of dangerous things that I've seen involving small children at the grocery store, and I try to help so the children don't get hurt.  

 

I've been the parent who needed help, and I'm thankful for the help I received.  A friendly reminder never hurt anyone...but I was raised by a nurse and a fireman so safety was kind of a big deal at our house. 

 

Unintentional injury has been and still is the #1 cause of death in children over 1 year of age. A friendly reminder is always good. I'm sure if there hasn't already been, there soon will be a thread started again this summer about drowning in backyard swimming pools. It happens year after year without fail. 

[MotherGoose]

US product standards are diffenjrent from those in many countries, too. I would bet that in buildings intended to house families, it is against US code to have a balcony railing that a child can squeeze through. So that being the case, US people are not used to the idea that they need to closely inspect every inch of space where their kid may be exploring. With the exception of stairs, windows, and electrical outlets, whose dangers have been drilled into our heads since we were tots ourselves.

 

My friend from India initially thought we Americans were pretty unconcerned about our kids' well-being, since we don't hang onto them 100% of the time as we travel from place to place. Well, where she comes from, there's often nothing to stop a kid from falling and breaking his skull off a concrete patio or whatever. We do things differently here, partly because we are richer and more litigious. We make sure it would be very hard for a kid to break his head, and then we give most kids a little leeway, even when they are young, so they can learn what we consider developmental skills (like going up & down stairs on their own power).

So true. We stayed at an apartment in Italy, and there were hazards, by American standards, everywhere. We survived. So glad no one made them butcher the building for safety's sake before renting it to the public. We were constantly amazed by how the Italians evidently believe that you are responsible for the cracking of your own personal head and need to watch out, as any sensible person would. (Not blaming the nanny or the alligator family here at all). I think what we have lost sight of, in our very litigious and blaming society, is that s;$& happens. Bad things happen to people all the time. It's terrible. But it's not always someone's fault. A relative of mine taught one of my kids to say, when they tripped over the edge of the rug, say, and fell down, "bad rug!" I don't think it was intended in this way, it was intended to draw the child's mind off the hurt, but I always correct her and say , "No, it's not the rug's fault. The rug is just there on the floor. You

Weren't paying attention and tripped. You can't control the rug, you can only control yourself and can e mindful of where you step." Now if she just tripped and wanted a hug, we wouldn't go through all that, this is only if she tried to say "bad rug!" (These are people, by the way, who have sued over their own stupidity, so their comments probably rankle me a bit.)

[heartlikealion]

My mom was a pediatric ER nurse. So I never leave our cars unlocked in the driveway or garage, always put the parking brake on, even when parked on a flat surface, rode in a car seat in 1970, never let my kids pretend to mow the lawn with daddy, had my porch sides covered with chicken wire so no escaping babies, had all my outlets plugged (and still do even though the youngest is 9 because someone else's kid could come over)... But I don't tell other people to do that.

 

But really, locking your car in the driveway is not too much to ask.

 

I have left the car unlocked by accident a number of times. I usually click a button on my keys to lock it. I never thought of a child getting into the car in our yard. I rarely see children around here and they are not in my yard, but this is food for thought. Mainly I lock things to prevent theft.

 

I can't tell you how many people I've met that think having a little kid ride on an ATV or riding mower, etc. is no big deal. I remember freaking out (internally) when an employee at an apt. complex ushered my family (prospective tenants) into a golf cart to drive around the complex and she drove it across a busy road when it was briefly clear. One of the few times I didn't insist on a car seat for ds but had I realized she was going to do that I would have been like uhh, that's okay... we'll meet you over there. I was holding him in my lap and he was 4?

Edited June 17, 2016 by heartlikealion

[Murphy101]

My mom was a pediatric ER nurse. So I never leave our cars unlocked in the driveway or garage, always put the parking brake on, even when parked on a flat surface, rode in a car seat in 1970, never let my kids pretend to mow the lawn with daddy, had my porch sides covered with chicken wire so no escaping babies, had all my outlets plugged (and still do even though the youngest is 9 because someone else's kid could come over)... But I don't tell other people to do that.

 

But really, locking your car in the driveway is not too much to ask.

In the past 18 years, 189 children died of heatstroke in unattended vehicles. 10-11 per year out of MILLIONS of children in the United States.

 

It's a tragedy but no, it's not doing something reckless to not lock our van in the driveway.

 

To hyper focus on these things that are very unlikely does create a lot of unnecessary stress in life. A lot of unnecessary judgement and heaping of ill-will on people when these very very unlikely things happen.

[TheReader]

In the past 18 years, 189 children died of heatstroke in unattended vehicles. 10-11 per year out of MILLIONS of children in the United States.

 

It's a tragedy but no, it's not doing something reckless to not lock our van in the driveway.

 

To hyper focus on these things that are very unlikely does create a lot of unnecessary stress in life. A lot of unnecessary judgement and heaping of ill-will on people when these very very unlikely things happen.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/hot-cars-and-kids/death-hot-cars-facts-figures-prevention-n153776

 

According to this, in 2014 the average each year was over 36 per year, and over 600 since 1998, and Texas leads the nation. Not a huge number, but enough.

 

Comparatively speaking, according to this article, there were 16 total electrocution accident deaths in children under age 16, from 1988 to 2001. Not per year, total. Yet we still educate our children about not putting things in electrical outlets, not flying kites near power lines, getting out of the water during lightning, etc. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12542812

 

By your logic, similarly hyper-focused, alarmist propaganda. I think I am content to be considered crazy and hyper-focused on tragedies unlikely to happen, but thanks for the discussion.

[Murphy101]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/hot-cars-and-kids/death-hot-cars-facts-figures-prevention-n153776

 

According to this, in 2014 the average each year was over 36 per year, and over 600 since 1998, and Texas leads the nation. Not a huge number, but enough.

 

Comparatively speaking, according to this article, there were 16 total electrocution accident deaths in children under age 16, from 1988 to 2001. Not per year, total. Yet we still educate our children about not putting things in electrical outlets, not flying kites near power lines, getting out of the water during lightning, etc. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12542812

 

By your logic, similarly hyper-focused, alarmist propaganda. I think I am content to be considered crazy and hyper-focused on tragedies unlikely to happen, but thanks for the discussion.

36 included children left in cars by caregivers. My number is specifically children who climb into unattended vehicles. As response to posing parents should be scared of having unlocked cars in their driveways.

 

I don't think it is at all hyper focused to tell children to not play on or in cars, just like I tell them not to play with electrical lines and outlets.

[TravelingChris]

NO, I agree it isn't reckless not to lock your car's door but I have never heard about the 30% of overheating in cars deaths happening because the child climbed in the car.  I have no small children and there are none around here.  I lock the car doors to reduce the risk of car burglary.  So it doesn't make a difference in my actions but may make a difference in the actions of some others who have small children or live near small children.  I will just continue to lock the doors for now more than one good reason.

[Murphy101]

NO, I agree it isn't reckless not to lock your car's door but I have never heard about the 30% of overheating in cars deaths happening because the child climbed in the car. I have no small children and there are none around here. I lock the car doors to reduce the risk of car burglary. So it doesn't make a difference in my actions but may make a difference in the actions of some others who have small children or live near small children. I will just continue to lock the doors for now more than one good reason.

Sure then. It's the hype of "30%" that borders on fear mongering that I find frustrating and not an accurate representation of risk assessment. It's 30% of an already very small number.

 

It's like OBs that repeat over and over how risk of uterine rupture DOUBLES (gasp of horror) to convince women they should be far more concerned with avoiding the possible remote danger than they need to be while conveniently never mentioning that even doubled the risk is less than 5%.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Murphy101

[Caroline]

In the past 18 years, 189 children died of heatstroke in unattended vehicles. 10-11 per year out of MILLIONS of children in the United States.

 

It's a tragedy but no, it's not doing something reckless to not lock our van in the driveway.

 

To hyper focus on these things that are very unlikely does create a lot of unnecessary stress in life. A lot of unnecessary judgement and heaping of ill-will on people when these very very unlikely things happen.

I didn't say reckless. I didn't say hyper-focus. I just said it isn't too much to do. It's a habit we teach our kids. Not a big deal. No one makes a big deal over it. We just do it. No hyper-focus. No big deal.

[Spryte]

You know, I'm just going to say thanks for the heads up on locking the car. We keep our car in the garage, and I leave it unlocked. But we live at the end of a kid filled cul de sac, and we are The House. Today, we had 11 extra kids here playing. The garage door was up. They ran in and out. It would be easy for a kid to climb in our car during hide and seek or playing zombie apocalypse. I'm going to lock it from now on.

 

PSA success!

Edited June 18, 2016 by Spryte

[8circles]

A PSA for this event is 'Hotel balconies are often not child-safe.Try to get a ground floor room if possible, and make sure a small child can't reach the lock on the door leading to the balcony.'

 

You can provide info without communicating assumptions about the parents (or nannies!) involved.

 

Exactly. The PSA in the op only makes sense if you see the story as parents not supervising their child. They are the victim's of a tragedy, not neglectful parents.

 

I never lock my car at home. Its either in the garage or on the driveway. My kids know not to play in the car but this is a hazard I've never thought of. I'll make sure to be more aware in the future and will make an effort to lock the car even at home.

 

Eta: sorry, but I see any good intentions from the way Lanny is presenting this PSA. He clearly thinks the parents dropped the ball by hiring the nanny who fell asleep. I don't consider that "good intentions".

Edited June 18, 2016 by 8circles

[SKL]

36 included children left in cars by caregivers. My number is specifically children who climb into unattended vehicles. As response to posing parents should be scared of having unlocked cars in their driveways.

 

I don't think it is at all hyper focused to tell children to not play on or in cars, just like I tell them not to play with electrical lines and outlets.

 

I don't think anyone should be scared, I just think that it's another good reason to lock one's car doors when you park outside, especially in the summer.  Locking car doors isn't difficult and it doesn't curtail anyone's freedom or development IMO.  I'm pretty free-range, but I do like knowing *facts* that can help me make an informed decision about safety.

 

Also I think the more important part of the PSA is to look in the cars ASAP if a young child has wandered off.

 

PS I don't think it's a good idea to look at long-term stats when it comes to cars.  Car technology and "safety" measures impact these things on a on-going basis.  For example, the number of kids who died in hot cars because of being left there skyrocketed after the introduction of the passenger side airbag, which requires children (esp rear-facing babies) to be placed in the back seat.  Changes in "safety lock" technology have made it harder for kids (even some older ones) to get out of the car when they need to.  Many safety measures have unintended, sometimes deadly side effects.  So more recent data (when available) is more accurate than spreading a long-term figure over a number of years.

Edited June 18, 2016 by SKL

[8circles]

What phrases in the text of the original post lead you to believe the poster offered an opinion?

 

The way I read it is that the poster is reporting the headline from the newspaper, and a summary....reporter says the authorities are investigating the nanny. No where does the paper report that the building contractor will be investigated to see if safety codes were followed, or that the hotel will be investigated to see that proper maintenance was done and things are in good repair. I know the report isnt likely to be accurate and no one knows whats really going on. What we learn from it is to check the room from the viewpoint of a small child who isnt supervised and make sure the kid cant access an unsafe area, cause we all expect the nanny to have a bathroom break, and being experienced parents we know what can happen then.

 

Car locking...always. Diverse neighborhood. I want it to be in the driveway, with the same amount of fuel in the morning, so I have to discourage theives. Bonus is no small ones can find their way in. Had a relative put a toddler in a car so he wouldnt have to watch him....got really lucky the car didnt hit a tree after the kid took it out of park and it started rolling. Same relatives think I am a nutter because I use the parking brake....but I dont want the hassle or the airbag death if their kid gets in my car and hits a tree. So 4 safety measures...supervision, lock, parking brake, no key in ignition or available to child.

 

You can't be serious.  This isn't difficult.

 

The thread title: 

PSA: Parents: Watch your young children and try to prevent accidents

 

So one would think that the example given would be of someone NOT watching their young children & NOT trying to prevent accidents.  Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

 

You don't give a PSA for a particular behavior & then follow it up with a story that doesn't illustrate the lack of that behavior.  

 

How about these?

PSA: Don't forget to brush your teeth 3x/day.  Here's a story about someone who did brush 3x/day and lost all their teeth to cavities. 

PSA: Turn in your applications on time or you will automatically be rejected.  Here's a story about someone who turned in their application on time but was rejected anyway.

PSA: Watch the steaks on the grill because they burn really fast.  Here's a story about someone who watched their steaks every second and still burned them.

PSA: Wear a seatbelt in the car.  Here's a story about someone who wore their seatbelt and died in a crash anyway.

PSA: Install a baffle to your birdfeeder to keep the squirrels out.  Here's a story about someone who used a baffle but still had squirrels eat all the birdseed.

 

 

This afternoon, before I came home, I stopped in the supermarket to buy some things. My wife had sent me a Text message, with some additional things she wanted me to buy. I stopped at the Customer Service Desk, so I could write on my shopping list, what the additional things were.  As I did that, I glanced at the headline of the local newspaper, El Pais, the largest newspaper in Cali, Colombia.  The headline was that parents need to watch their children better, to reduce the number of accidents. There was a tragedy, on Tuesday. A 15 month old boy from Panama, was in an 8th floor room in the Hotel Intercontinental. . Apparently, the  parents went out and left him with the Nanny who had been taking care of him for the past 3 months. Apparently, she fell asleep, he went onto the balcony, went between the rails (I cant remember the correct word as I write this) and fell to his death.  Another senseless tragedy. Children and Animals have NO understanding of danger. The Nanny is in custody.  This is in Spanish:

 

http://www.elpais.com.co/elpais/cali/noticias/accidente-hotel-dispara-alerta-entre-padres-por-riesgos-menores

 

 

[hornblower]

 

 

So one would think that the example given would be of someone NOT watching their young children & NOT trying to prevent accidents.  Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

 

You don't give a PSA for a particular behavior & then follow it up with a story that doesn't illustrate the lack of that behavior.  

 

 

 

But the adult in charge was NOT watching the child. They were asleep. 

 

And they did not childproof the apartment so IMO did not try to prevent the accident. 

 

 

[amsunshine]

 

But the adult in charge was NOT watching the child. They were asleep.

 

And they did not childproof the apartment so IMO did not try to prevent the accident.

 

 

This was a hotel room wasn't it? The Hotel Intercontinental?

[hornblower]

This was a hotel room wasn't it? The Hotel Intercontinental?

We travelled a fair bit with our kids when they were young & brought our own childproofing stuff to lock balconies & cover outlets etc in hotels. Part of moving into a hotel room with kids is doing a walk through & trying to figure out where the risks are. 

[amsunshine]

We travelled a fair bit with our kids when they were young & brought our own childproofing stuff to lock balconies & cover outlets etc in hotels. Part of moving into a hotel room with kids is doing a walk through & trying to figure out where the risks are. 

 

Ok, I get that.  You had just used the word "apartment", so I was confused.

 

In any event, this just supports the point 8circles was trying to make.  Lanny's post was critical of/blaming the parents' behavior.

[hornblower]

Yeah, well I don't have a problem with being critical of the parents/adults in charge. This was a preventable death. I don't understand the b&w thinking on this. There are freak accidents which are completely unforeseeable.

 & then there are preventable accidents. No, we can't get rid of all accidents (though we can minimize their impacts through interventions such as safety gear, padding, helmets, seat belts etc) but we should learn from them. 

[amsunshine]

Wow.

[meena]

Yeah, well I don't have a problem with being critical of the parents/adults in charge. This was a preventable death. I don't understand the b&w thinking on this. There are freak accidents which are completely unforeseeable.

 

& then there are preventable accidents. No, we can't get rid of all accidents (though we can minimize their impacts through interventions such as safety gear, padding, helmets, seat belts etc) but we should learn from them.

I don't have a problem with being critical of parents/adults when they are being obviously negligent. In this case, parents were not negligent but the nanny was. So, shouldn't the PSA be: "Nannies: Don't fall asleep on the job"?

[amsunshine]

Or maybe the PSA should be:  Parents -- Don't hire nannies, or babysitters.  If you do, make sure you think of every possible thing that could ever go wrong while your child is with the nanny/babysitter and do something to prevent it from happening.  Don't ever trust a nanny/babysitter because he/she could fall asleep while watching your child.  Better yet, just don't ever have anyone else watch your kids.  It's not safe.

[hornblower]

I don't have a problem with being critical of parents/adults when they are being obviously negligent. In this case, parents were not negligent but the nanny was. So, shouldn't the PSA be: "Nannies: Don't fall asleep on the job"?

 

Oh absolutely. I thought this was a generic - "if you're an adult in charge of someone who depends on you for their physical safety, don't fall asleep"

 

Doesn't matter if it's a nanny or a parent or a relative. 

 

 

[hornblower]

If you were going to look at a daycare and they TOLD you that they sleep on the job and leave the child in a non childproofed room, would you hire them? 



If you look at this from an accident prevention point, isn't it really clear that there were failures here? The person was not able to do the job. They were too tired or ill or whatever. Perhaps they could have told the parents, no I can't do this or gone down to buy a coffee or gone for a walk - anything to keep themselves awake. And the room was not made secure. So here's an opportunity for us to learn - if you're going to sleep in a new environment, check for hazards. 

We rightly tell parents to be careful about going to grandma's house because it's often NOT child proofed. The medicines might be in easy to open for arthritic hands jars etc. It's just a simple heads up to pay attn to unexpected but known hazards. 

Pilots have fallen asleep while flying planes, btw.  That would be a another preventable accident IMO. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm trying really hard to understand why this thread exists. The kind of people who would ever heed this "PSA" already know to watch out for their children. The kind of people who really need this message either don't understand what being a parent entails or just don't care. All this headline (and thread title) ends up doing is shaming parents who are already devastated by tragedy.

 

I chalk it up to something like me telling my husband or kids something obvious just because I'd feel better to mention it.  Somehow I think if I mention it I can help prevent it.  That's probably not true, but I still do it sometimes.

 

Like I tell my 14 year old to be extremely cautious when crossing streets around here.  I tell him every time he leaves the house.  He thinks I'm being so annoying and duh he knows how to cross a street.  Well yeah yesterday a 16 year old around here died crossing the street.  It happens far too often around here.  I just don't want him to forget to be very careful.

[SparklyUnicorn]

If you were going to look at a daycare and they TOLD you that they sleep on the job and leave the child in a non childproofed room, would you hire them? 

 

 

 

If you look at this from an accident prevention point, isn't it really clear that there were failures here? The person was not able to do the job. They were too tired or ill or whatever. Perhaps they could have told the parents, no I can't do this or gone down to buy a coffee or gone for a walk - anything to keep themselves awake. And the room was not made secure. So here's an opportunity for us to learn - if you're going to sleep in a new environment, check for hazards. 

 

We rightly tell parents to be careful about going to grandma's house because it's often NOT child proofed. The medicines might be in easy to open for arthritic hands jars etc. It's just a simple heads up to pay attn to unexpected but known hazards. 

 

Pilots have fallen asleep while flying planes, btw.  That would be a another preventable accident IMO. 

 

Well maybe the biggest mistake was not locking the door or whatever (to the balcony), but we all sleep and need to sleep.  This could happen at night as well when we are all sleeping.  It is not unheard of for little kids to wander out of the house late at night or early in the morning. 

 

If we are talking about hiring someone during the day, well sure I would hope they don't sleep, but if they laid down for a nap while the kid was napping, I wouldn't consider that neglectful. 

[Murphy101]

 

Oh absolutely. I thought this was a generic - "if you're an adult in charge of someone who depends on you for their physical safety, don't fall asleep"

 

Doesn't matter if it's a nanny or a parent or a relative.

 

 

Oh geez. What crap. I fall asleep every night. Eventually. Usually. I take a nap during the day. Heck. Yesterday I took TWO.

 

There is no evidence yet of neglect. Toddlers can be little Houdinies.

 

This is very rare. Partly because regardless of building codes, most caregivers do actually worry about the safety of their children. I'm not going to lose sleep, literally, bc of the very slim chances that some random tragedy will befell our children. Recipe for neurotic parenting if ever there was one.

 

And yet the literally hundreds of things that are much much more likely to be fatal and we have much higher fatalities of every year, no one gives much thought to beyond "be careful" - such as teen driving for one glaring example.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I really don't get the big deal.  If the article helps remind you of something you've forgotten or didn't know, then read it and learn from it.  If not, then mentally toss it aside.  Lanny gives us lots of PSAs on travel, electronics and other things.  None of them have been news to me but they haven't offended me either. 

 

As far as blaming goes, Lanny (as far as I know) has not sent this article to the parents of the child who fell, nor has he blasted their behavior.  The accident was the catalyst for a reporter doing a PSA type of article.  Lanny read the article and thought that it was worth passing on.  The end. 

[heartlikealion]

I may need to re-read some posts. I thought don't leave your car unlocked was a PSA because kids remove parking brake/drive car. Not because they enter the car and then overheat. But I saw stats mentioned for the second thing.

 

I don't think having a nanny in itself is the issue. I don't think anyone here does. I don't know why she was sleeping, she may have been taking a nap while the toddler was sleeping. Just last night my own toddler managed to get part of her body between the mattress and wall and I was sleeping right next to her. I woke up freaking out and pulled her up immediately. I'll probably need to forgo using that outlet and shove the bed back against the wall closer. She can climb out of her pack n play so letting her sleep next to me seemed safer. And she's trying to climb baby gates so I don't even know if setting up the toddler bed in ds' room would be better or worse. Trying to keep her safe is really challenging lately.

 

I still don't know how sleeping = toddler getting outside. There must be an issue with locks between balcony and hotel room. They weren't high enough. They weren't locked. Locks don't exist there. The door was open because the A/C was out, etc. This is something I would look at before I felt comfortable staying in a hotel, but it's not to say some other freak accident couldn't occur like a tv remote being thrown at the glass door leading to the patio and shattering. I realize you can't predict it all.

[SKL]

I still don't see how we're all so sure that anyone was negligent.  Maybe the nanny was asleep because it was after the child's bedtime, she had put the child down to sleep, and she was freakin' tired.  The nanny might be live-in (or was living with the child during travel) and therefore present 24/7, but I hope nobody expects anyone to be awake 24/7 regardless of their job title.

 

The kid escaped.  We cannot know whether this was something the nanny should have foreseen or not.  Because it happens to the most careful of parents.  Anyone who thinks this can't happen to them has been extremely lucky up to now.  Or has a selective memory.

 

Another possibility, by the way, is that the nanny passed out due to things completely beyond her control.  Like a medical condition that she may or may not have been aware of or able to control.  These things also happen to excellent parents and caregivers.  That's why we hear so many stories about tots and preschoolers dialing 911 to save their parents.

 

Or maybe the nanny was a negligent hag.  In that case, a warning to parents in general does not seem to be helpful - unless the concern is that nanny negligence is widespread.

 

I do think it is useful to consider whether a balcony is child-safe and whether your kid is able to unlock the balcony door.  I'm not a childproofing nut, but balconies are an exception.  :)  Another thing to consider in a hotel is the hotel crib.   Since it's new for the baby, you don't know whether he may try to climb out and whether he'll succeed.  And of course, kids' own behavior is going to be a little different and unpredictable in a new place.  So what can you do?  Stay awake all night?  Tie him down?  I would probably block the door with a bed or something if I thought my 15mo might sneak out in the night.  But I'm sure there are other risks I would not think of until too late.