Figuring out which Pre-Algebra?!!

[Murrayshire]

So, dd has been working on CLE 6 since winter....still has a few light units to go. I can see a BIG difference in her understanding of math since we left Saxon. Light bulbs have gone off! She does complain about how slow lessons are..... We double up on lessons and only complete one review work most days.

 

For 8th grade, I ordered CLE 7 (read here that this is pre-A, or this is the 1st part of it).... I'm still looking around at other math programs though...... Like MM Pre-Algebra, Derek Owens, and Tablet Class.

 

I feel TC might not have enough pre-algebra concepts in it because halfway it is basically the first part of Algebra. So that may move too fast for her. My oldest loves TC so we are sticking with it for her, though it would be nice to just pay the $99 for all and be finished with math decisions!

 

Derek Owens ~ So, are the videos free for pre-algebra & you just purchase the student notebooks for note taking? I like that it is considered a standard pre-algebra program.

 

CLE ~ Will dd be okay using just CLE 7 and not 8? Will 7 be complete and able her to move into any Algebra I program? I could add DO videos, Khan videos, or possibly Alcumus videos for more instruction other than boring Mom!?

 

MM Pre-Alg ~ Has anyone used just this and this ONLY? How would it compare to CLE 7? I know it is more of a mastery math and not as much review as CLE.

http://www.mathmammoth.com/preview/MathMammoth_CommonCore_Alignment_Grade_7.pdf

 

This dd has struggled with math and it's been work for both of us! I want to be sure of next year's path so she continues to grow confidence in math to well equip her for high school math and beyond! She is showing possibility in the health field......

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can pass on!

Edited June 9, 2016 by Murrayshire

[Julie of KY]

Well, my favorite PreA is AoPS. :)

 

As far as Derek Owens, typically you buy the workbook and then pay for monthly access to the videos, homework pages, and tests. The first couple of chapters of the prealgebra book are in entirety on you-tube for prealgebra only, but you still wouldn't have the homework and tests. The workbook itself as pages for notetaking during the lectures as well as a lot of practice problems. Once you finish a chapter in DO, there isn't more review of those concepts unless you are directly using them to build upon for future chapters.

[Murrayshire]

Well, my favorite PreA is AoPS. :)

 

As far as Derek Owens, typically you buy the workbook and then pay for monthly access to the videos, homework pages, and tests. The first couple of chapters of the prealgebra book are in entirety on you-tube for prealgebra only, but you still wouldn't have the homework and tests. The workbook itself as pages for notetaking during the lectures as well as a lot of practice problems. Once you finish a chapter in DO, there isn't more review of those concepts unless you are directly using them to build upon for future chapters.

 

Ah, I see..... thank you for clarifying!

:001_smile:

[dereksurfs]

We'll be using DO for Pre-A with dd12 this Fall.  ds14 really liked TC, but I think its just too accelerated for dd.  She is really ready to move on from MM after 6,  otherwise we would consider MM7.  Sometimes kids just need a change and I think DO will be good for her.  I think our dds actually liked CLE more.  But I've found their math reasoning skills have really improved with MM.

Edited June 13, 2016 by dereksurfs

[Murrayshire]

Thank you Dereksurfs! I'm still on edge of what to use..... Thank you for your help!

I particularly liked MM when we used it but dd did not.... I might have her just look through it.

Was thinking I'll purchase all of TC anyway, since older dd will be using it, so if she gets through CLE 7 early she can use the last half of TC through the summer next year before 9th.

May or may not be practical so we'll see.

 

Thanks again!

[SemiSweet]

We are in the middle of Math Mammoth PreA. We tried AOPS first but I could not get on board with the format and it was frustrating both of us. Halfway through MM I had ds take the Saxon Algebra readiness test and he did great. It's a good fit for us.

[OneStepAtATime]

Let me quickly clarify a few things then give a response based on what I am understanding.

1. You say that CLE has been a really good fit after switching from Saxon, which was not a good fit.

2.  Your DD struggles with math so she probably needs a program with a lot of review but one that is flexible enough you can cut review as needed so it doesn't get boring (which CLE has fulfilled for her so far, correct?)

3.  You are concerned that 700 won't cover enough material for a full pre-Algebra course if she doesn't do 800 too, but you want her in Algebra next year.  

4.  You would like something a bit more conceptual than CLE.

 

 

If a program is a good fit for a struggling student and "light bulbs" are going off, I would strongly hesitate to hop programs again when things are finally clicking, at least not at the pre-Algebra level.  You are already in a rhythm with CLE and know you can drop redundant review but still incorporate enough review for her to have success.  CLE can be accelerated so that both 700 and 800 are covered in one year.  You can add more conceptual material in on the side as you go from other sources but still use CLE as the main program.  

 

FWIW, my daughter (who struggles in math) does much better if I add in conceptual materials alongside CLE and use CLE as the primary resource for math.  She also does CTC math on the computer for added reinforcement and support since she has access to ALL levels of math (it starts with Kindergarten and goes through Trigonometry/Calculus so she has access to everything through Trig/Calc).  She can go back as far as she needs, to the most basic math for a concept, practice at that level and just keep hopping forward with math lessons in that particular area until she gets to where she can do well at the level she should be.  She can also keep going forward as far as she needs/wants.  For example, with fractions, if she hits a snag she can go see a video and do practice problems from an easier level to refresh her memory then hop forward as far as she is able.  The video explanations can be very helpful when something in CLE isn't as clear to her (we got CTC through Homeschool Buyer's Co-Op for much cheaper than the normal price).

 

 

What if you did the following?

• Skip the following:  all of 701, the latter half of 710 (reviewed again in 802) and all of 801
• Do 2 lessons of new material and one lesson of review material each day, skip the quizzes and only do tests for every other Light Unit.  Basically that would mean completing a light unit every 6-7 days.  Look on a calendar.  Start from where you want her to be done and work backwards.  She could make it through both the 700s and the 800s in one year, which would give her a very solid Pre-Algebra program.  800 covers a lot of great stuff (many skip 800 and go straight to Algebra I without a problem but if she can at least do some of 800 I think she would benefit).  If she started to struggle you could slow down and probably still complete both in the one year.
• Look over you tube videos and AoPS Pre-A (we got ours used on-line for next to nothing) and MM and other sources and see if there is anything that you and she might be happy adding in as a supplement for more conceptual understanding alongside CLE.  Use the TM to look ahead to upcoming concepts and find lessons/videos that would tie into that.  
• Possibly add in something like CTC for additional support she can access independently as needed.
• CLE has a very good Algebra I program so she could continue with Algebra I using CLE if 700/800 go well.  After that you would probably need to jump to another program since Algebra I is the last of the Light Unit format, but a lot of people do that very successfully.

Hope that helps a bit in brainstorming ways to approach your situation.  Good luck, whatever you decide to do.  Best wishes.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[HollyDay]

I would suggest using whatever curriculum house you chose for algebra 1 for pre-algebra.  That way, you are all set to start the next level.  My oldest did Saxon 1/2.  Youngest used TT. 

[mom2vikha]

My DD is doing MM prealgebra now. She is almost done with it. Just have geometry and statistics to finish. I would say it is a very solid program. She was also able to do Aops prealgebra whenever I throw at her. MM preA is our spine though. I signed her up for Jocabs algebra through veristas press. I decided on Jacobs because she is on younger side ( 10 years old) and heard Jacobs is gentle. I have Forester Algebra for challenging word problems.

 

To Sum it up, MM preA gets a big thumps upðŸ‘

[Murrayshire]

Let me quickly clarify a few things then give a response based on what I am understanding.

1. You say that CLE has been a really good fit after switching from Saxon, which was not a good fit.

2.  Your DD struggles with math so she probably needs a program with a lot of review but one that is flexible enough you can cut review as needed so it doesn't get boring (which CLE has fulfilled for her so far, correct?)

3.  You are concerned that 700 won't cover enough material for a full pre-Algebra course if she doesn't do 800 too, but you want her in Algebra next year.  

4.  You would like something a bit more conceptual than CLE.

 

 

If a program is a good fit for a struggling student and "light bulbs" are going off, I would strongly hesitate to hop programs again when things are finally clicking, at least not at the pre-Algebra level.  You are already in a rhythm with CLE and know you can drop redundant review but still incorporate enough review for her to have success.  CLE can be accelerated so that both 700 and 800 are covered in one year.  You can add more conceptual material in on the side as you go from other sources but still use CLE as the main program.  

 

FWIW, my daughter (who struggles in math) does much better if I add in conceptual materials alongside CLE and use CLE as the primary resource for math.  She also does CTC math on the computer for added reinforcement and support since she has access to ALL levels of math (it starts with Kindergarten and goes through Trigonometry/Calculus so she has access to everything through Trig/Calc).  She can go back as far as she needs, to the most basic math for a concept, practice at that level and just keep hopping forward with math lessons in that particular area until she gets to where she can do well at the level she should be.  She can also keep going forward as far as she needs/wants.  For example, with fractions, if she hits a snag she can go see a video and do practice problems from an easier level to refresh her memory then hop forward as far as she is able.  The video explanations can be very helpful when something in CLE isn't as clear to her (we got CTC through Homeschool Buyer's Co-Op for much cheaper than the normal price).

 

 

What if you did the following?

• Skip the following:  all of 701, the latter half of 710 (reviewed again in 802) and all of 801
• Do 2 lessons of new material and one lesson of review material each day, skip the quizzes and only do tests for every other Light Unit.  Basically that would mean completing a light unit every 6-7 days.  Look on a calendar.  Start from where you want her to be done and work backwards.  She could make it through both the 700s and the 800s in one year, which would give her a very solid Pre-Algebra program.  800 covers a lot of great stuff (many skip 800 and go straight to Algebra I without a problem but if she can at least do some of 800 I think she would benefit).  If she started to struggle you could slow down and probably still complete both in the one year.
• Look over you tube videos and AoPS Pre-A (we got ours used on-line for next to nothing) and MM and other sources and see if there is anything that you and she might be happy adding in as a supplement for more conceptual understanding alongside CLE.  Use the TM to look ahead to upcoming concepts and find lessons/videos that would tie into that.  
• Possibly add in something like CTC for additional support she can access independently as needed.
• CLE has a very good Algebra I program so she could continue with Algebra I using CLE if 700/800 go well.  After that you would probably need to jump to another program since Algebra I is the last of the Light Unit format, but a lot of people do that very successfully.

Hope that helps a bit in brainstorming ways to approach your situation.  Good luck, whatever you decide to do.  Best wishes.

 

Thank you for breaking this down for me! 

 

In your second bullet, you described what we were doing this year. 

 

I think we have come to the decision to stay the course with CLE....doing the fast track if possible for 7 & 8. I ordered the Power Pack Tablet Class for older child, so dd can view videos from Pre-Algebra if we hit a snag.... 

 

Let me just say, to everyone reading this thread, that John Zimmerman (creator of Tablet Class), called me on the phone about ordering the Power Pack! I had several questions for him in which I emailed him. I was shocked to get a phone call! He is so supportive and helpful! We've had much success with the Algebra for older dd. 

 

Thanks again for your advice!

[3andme]

Just adding a note to OneStepataTImes' breakdown of CLE. In addition to skipping 801, you could also skip 810 as it's all budgeting and personal finance. That leaves only 8 light units in 800. There is also quite a bit of overlap in the 800 series with the Algebra 1 CLE course. While you could probably transition to Algebra I without completing all of the 800 course, you would be missing out on some of the geometry and trig concepts that are also covered in 800.

 

If you can accelerate CLE instead of skipping over 800, I think it would be a boon for a struggling student.  CLE 800 to CLE Algebra makes for a smooth transition and a confidence builder as the early light units in Algebra I would be concepts already covered in 800.

[Tiramisu]

I transitioned two kids from 805 to Saxon algebra 1 without any issues. At a certain point the 800 level started to feel redundant and I knew it was time to move on. I tend to overthink math decisions, but with CLE 800, it was just really clear that they were more than ready for algebra.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Tiramisu