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s/o educational neglect, no oversight, no cps, what then?


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The other thread has me thinking about this. I also know a family that doesn't do much... if anything. Both the kids and the mom admit this. I live in a very lax state with no oversight. On the other thread several people said this is not a reason to call CPS, what then is a good recourse to protect these kids? (I've NOT asking about these kids, but rather, situations like this in general. No provable abuse, just no schooling taking place.)

What can be done to help individual kids? Beyond talking to mom-yes that's helpful. But the reality is, I can't actually help her (beyond pointing her to good resources) school her kids.

What can be done to help protect other kids?

There is great freedom in having no oversight-I enjoy it-but I'm starting to come to the opinion that some oversight should be required. Do you live in a state that has a good system? One that gives homeschoolers the freedoms we want, but at the same time protects the children from neglect?

 

 

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I stated on the other thread that I'm a former CPS worker and there was nothing you can do in "no oversight" states.

 

I know that many homeschoolers are against oversight. I'm not. It is a *horrible* feeling to leave a house where a child is being educationally neglected, almost begging for education, and we had to walk away. I believe oversight should be minimal and/or flexible, but there should be oversight.

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All you can do is call CPS and law enforcement and tell then what you know. If they can't or won't do anything about it, you did what you could.

We have little regulation an no oversight here, but people can and have been prosecuted for educational neglect. I don't know the outcome.

If there were a way to actually prosecute deadbeat parents who commit fraud by claiming to homeschool but then don't around to appropriate amounts of schooling, I'd be on board with some oversight, but I haven't heard any ideas where it would work in a practical way. That's the thing about criminals, they're sneaky bastards who find ways to stay one step ahead of the law.

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My first thought is, I think when we are on the outside looking in we assume we know more than we do.  What I mean is, we can't possible have the whole picture of someone's life from our limited interactions with them.  We can't log every hour of someone's day and know for sure they are not doing enough school.  Even if you think you can, what defines "enough"?  Learning can look like so many different things not just sitting at a table with books and paper or on a computer.  

 

What one should do in a situation like this is help and not hurt.  If a mom is confiding to you that she is getting very little done, ask for clarity about what she calls very little (that varies greatly depending n who is saying it).  Next ask what she is struggling with and help from there.  This doesn't mean teacher children for her (not allowed in many states) but she maybe struggling with having a toddler that you or a older kid could volunteer to watch for a couple of days a week for her.  Maybe its a certain subject she struggles with teaching and you could offer to tutor/teach her children that subject kinda like a co-op.  Your families could get together for history or science and teach those lessons as a group (MFW does synergy groups).  She may just feel in over her head or depressed and just need some encouragement and accountability, you could help simply by calling her at a certain point each day to see how things are going school-wise and give some encouraging words.

 

When we honestly think about it, there are so many ways to help a family like this without unleashing the authorities and causing hurt to them.  I think in general, as a society (not specific to the OP), we find it easier to call and tell someone else to do something rather than to take time and make adjustments to help someone ourselves.  What we could do for someone in this situation would be so much more helpful than anything CPS could do and it wouldn't hurt the family in the process

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I am not wringing my hands about individual homeschoolers who are, for what ever reason, neglecting formal school activities. Loving supportive parents are doing the most important aspects of their job. Learning is the natural state of children. If the parents are not preventing their child from educating themselves, it is likely the children will be able to succeed in building a life. Emotional and family stability is of immeasurable value.

 

Educationally, I am much more concerned about the large number of children slipping through the cracks in schools. When a homeschooled child isn't receiving formal lessons, the alternatives are more time outdoors, creative play with siblings, and gaining life skills. When a schooled child isn't learning formal academics, what is happening instead is discouragement and frustration. 

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But then how do you make sure that homes where there is educational neglect opt in to a system of oversight ? People here will put up with losing out on significant amounts of money, and worrying about being caught out for being unregistered in preference to registering for a system with oversight.

 

If money and fear don't work - rewards and punishment - to get the majority of families registered and experiencing oversight, what will ?

My state used to have registration requirements. With those, CPS had the power to say "well, you're not registered *and* there's no evidence you're making any attempt to educate your child" and take whatever action was appropriate. The vast majority of cases, they just told parents how to register. It still requires someone to call regarding the neglect, but it provides a check within the system, which we don't have at all here right now.

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The current UK position (it varies a little between England and Scotland) is that there is no need to register as a home educator if your children have never been in school; if they have, they will be registered, but there is no automatic duty to provide any specific information, nor do the authorities have access to your home for educational concerns.

 

However, there is a duty on parents to provide an education, and this could be followed up by educational, not welfare, authorities.  So if I reported that someone was not educating their child, then they would have to prove that they were, based on the Education Act:

 

"The parent of every child of compulsory school age shall cause him to receive efficient full-time education suitable—

a: to his age, ability and aptitude, and

b: to any special educational needs he may have, 

either by regular attendance at school or otherwise."

 

And guidance (which has the force of law):

 

"The responsibility for a child's education rests with his or her parents. An "efficient" and "suitable" education is not defined in the Education Act 1996 but "efficient" has been broadly described in case law as an education that "achieves that which it sets out to achieve", and a "suitable" education is one that "primarily equips a child for life within the community of which he is a member, rather than the way of life in the country as a whole, as long as it does not foreclose the child's options in later years to adopt some other form of life if he wishes to do so". "

 

So I can primarily educate my child to be a shepherd, but not in such a way that his general education is neglected and he cannot make other choices (going to university, for example).

 

 

 

 

Edited by Laura Corin
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You cannot make people be good parents, because then you would have to legislate what good parenting is.

In the family that I just had, the children were moving from grade to grade through the public schools without learning anything.  They are allowed to stay up until well past midnight, be at school the next day and fall asleep.  The 3-year-old was fed Mountain Dew and chips until her BMI was in the 99.7th percentile and she was incapable of playing.  At home, the children are mocked for "showing off" if their grades are any better than barely passing.

I think it sad that so many people (not just homeschoolers) allow their children to grow up uneducated, but I am not willing to have the state get involved and make laws like "soda for children under the age of 12 is illegal."  "All children under 12 shall be given their own bed to sleep in quiet for a minimum of 10 hours."  Even if we tried to legislate good parenting, it would fail.  Sometimes people must have the freedom to make bad choices, even when it is their children who lose.

 

Sometimes all you can do is love the children involved and encourage them to take advantage of the opportunities you see.

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Well, I have seen this situation and I just stepped in to help. I was working nights and had my own littles during the day but I ended up teaching these children quite a bit until they went back to public school. Things went even more down hill at that point but I hope the got something from the experience.

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I think Virginia has a good system of oversight. There are various categories to homeschool under: a certified teacher (who doesn't need to document educational progress of the students), a parent with a high school diploma (with various ways to document adequate student progress each year, including standardized test scores, evaluation, or portfolio), or a claim of religious exemption. In general, I think people who homeschool under the last category may be required to verify that they believe public school in any form is immoral according to their religious beliefs.

 

In this system, citizens are free to homeschool as long as they fulfill the requirements of the law which are not burdensome. I think this system reduces educational neglect because most homeschoolers choose the high school diploma category and are required to show some level of educational achievement consistent with the children's grade levels. This motivates some people who might otherwise neglect educating their children.

 

I may be fuzzy on some of the Virginia requirements as outlined above, but that gives you a general idea of a system which I think is well thought out.

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We have no regulations and I'd love to keep it like that. I don't know, I'm very hesitant when judging anyone's homeschooling... I kind of go by a "nobody knows what goes behind doors" policy. I have heard many times the minimum that has to be covered are the 3Rs, and there are plenty of ways to cover that. Also, we have schools in the area that achieve more, others? Not so much. The kids aren't really learning a whole lot in some schools...so, do we call CPS on that too? I think it is VERY hard to define what's a good education, and what's neglect, since it's not a "the same glove fits all" situation. Yes, I know there's grade standards and all that, but just because a child goes to public school it doesn't mean they are getting a good education, lots of those standards are just in paper. One of my biggest regrets was to leave it up to the public school system to educate our oldest, it was ok I guess...but definitely not what would be my choice today. Some ways of education work for some families (like unschooling, wouldn't work for me at all, but it does for many), or a religious based education (works for us, I'm sure not for others)...it just depends on the family. Regardless of choice of education (public school, private, charter, home) we all have our own thing going on, our own family dynamics, and it's for us to decide what works and what doesn't... it's nobody else's business (of course, as long as there's no abuse/child neglect involved, that's just a different story).

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I like the amount of oversight in our state - we send in a letter of intent and we have standardized testing or portfolio review every year from age 8 up.  It isn't an onerous system.  That said, there really isn't any enforcement of that, I don't think.  I think it would only come up if the family was already on the authorities' radar for other things.

 

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Maybe if there were incentives to register, more people would, and there'd be more even oversight. As it is, it feels like all the conscientious homeschoolers register and are subject to oversight, and all the non-conscientious homeschoolers just don't bother registering and are subject to zero oversight.

 

I've thought that more programs that provide both funding/resources and oversight might cut down on situations where educational neglect is happening not by design but by default. Programs like the flexible charter schools in California that pay for curriculum, supplies, and extracurriculars in exchange families report on progress and provide samples of work on a regular basis to an overseeing teacher. I know that when I have been involved in such a program it has been an incentive to me to keep up with basic schoolwork, and has also provided my kids with educational opportunities they wouldn't have otherwise.

 

The families who are adamantly anti any government involvement for philosophical or religious or whatever reasons--well, yeah, they're gonna do their thing and go underground if they have to. I think that those families are at this point only a small minority of all home educators though. Regulations aren't likely to do much good. I think positive rewards and reinforcement for responsible education is likely to have a more positive effect.

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I live in a state where you must register as a homeschooler, track days of school, and test annually with the standardized test of your choice. But no one ever asks to see the scores, and there are no consequences for scoring poorly. We have been homeschooling in this state for 8 years now, and I have never heard of any family not registering. The requirement is so easy and there are absolutely no potential negative consequences, so everyone registers and follows the law. I have also never seen a single case of educational neglect in real life. Never.

 

Even though the requirements are super-easy, they discourage people from pulling their kids out of public school based on a whim or over petty frustrations. I can't tell you the number of times someone has approached me to ask about homeschooling, because they're so frustrated over math instruction . . . or a change in bus routes. . . or whatever. As soon as I explain about going online to register and keeping attendance and annual testing, their whole demeanor changes. "Oh, never mind. I didn't realize it was so hard." I assure them that it's actually really easy and explain that no one has ever asked to see my records, but they are done with the homeschooling idea. 

 

The other thing I've seen is that the standardized testing keeps folks on track. I have known many radical unschoolers who got a wake-up call with that first standardized test scores. They change things up (let's sign up for a writing class & join a math circle) or their kids suddenly choose to go to school (often in 3rd grade after getting the second set of poor scores at the end of 2nd). Even though the standardized tests are for your eyes only, they let you know if things are going poorly. Information is power.

 

So, I've become very supportive of minimal oversight. I'm for every state having:

-Registration (so we know who is homeschooling & how many children are being homeschooled)

-Some kind of minimal educational standard for parents to follow (counting days, counting hours, or periodic standardized tests - just something)

 

No oversight creates a space where educational neglect can occur. Too much oversight with inspections or potential punishments leads to non-compliance. But that sweet spot in the middle is where we provide a safety net and prevent educational neglect.

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I child relative who is in the San Antonio School system who has been "passed" from grade to grade since K. Never promoted. Never able to do the next grades work, but passed socially. She is in 7th grade now. Never been promoted. She does not have a learning disability that has been found.From what I know, she just never got past that 3rd grade level so she is just increasingly lost. 

 

I wish they would homeschool her.

 

 

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We lived in Arkansas 3 times, I actually liked their regulation--register, send in a short what you will do, test for info only. I know a few people in other states who could have used a testing wake up call. Interestingly, the testing requirement was done away with recently, the only free article about the test repeal I could find about it is from HSLDA.

 

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/ar/201504060.asp

Edited by ElizabethB
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I will also add that my furthest behind remedial students have all come from public schools. I do care about all students and believe they should have an opportunity for a good education. It is sad when a student is behind where they should be no matter the reason.

 

It is especially sad for poor students who do not have the family educational or monetary resources to remediate their children, every time I think of that NY Times article graph of the gap it makes me mad and sad.

Edited by ElizabethB
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We lived in Arkansas 3 times, I actually liked their regulation--register, send in a short what you will do, test for info only. I know a few people in other states who could have used a testing wake up call. Interestingly, the testing requirement was done away with recently, the only free article about the test repeal I could find about it is from HSLDA.

 

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/ar/201504060.asp

This.

 

I also like the registration requirement, if only to prevent people from being called homeschoolers when they are really truant. 

 

Emily

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This is a sticky subject for me.

On one hand, I enjoy the little to no oversight in my area. On the other hand, I know some kids I believe are suffering for it.

 

With that said, I wonder what would be the determining factors for deciding that a family is doing "nothing" and should be reported. If I'm honest, I view radical unschooling, completely child-led everything, as doing "nothing." The families I know who are radical unschoolers and completely child-led consider it plenty to bake (when the child wants to), hike (when the child wants to), research something (when the child wants to), and I'm not sure that I think that will ever be enough to ensure a child has the options when they are old enough to really know what they want from their life, without sincerely struggling to get it. 

 

But, at the end of the day, these are loving families and I value parental rights on a pretty big level, so I step back and hold my tongue. I'm sure there are those (actually, I know there are those) who believe making my children do work whether they want to or not is synonymous with child abuse on an emotional/developmental level, so... yeah, six to one, half a dozen to another. 

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We lived in Arkansas 3 times, I actually liked their regulation--register, send in a short what you will do, test for info only. I know a few people in other states who could have used a testing wake up call. Interestingly, the testing requirement was done away with recently, the only free article about the test repeal I could find about it is from HSLDA.

 

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/ar/201504060.asp

I'm grateful there is no testing requirement here, even though I don't mind some oversight. For 2E children like my own, testing is a nightmare. Even if the results don't have to be turned in, it's a huge amount of unnecessary stress for many similar children. 

Of course, I'm pretty anti-standardized tests. I think they show very little of what a child actually knows - unless that child is a good test-taker. 

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I'm grateful there is no testing requirement here, even though I don't mind some oversight. For 2E children like my own, testing is a nightmare. Even if the results don't have to be turned in, it's a huge amount of unnecessary stress for many similar children.

Of course, I'm pretty anti-standardized tests. I think they show very little of what a child actually knows - unless that child is a good test-taker.

I am pretty sure they had accomodations and exceptions, but we never were their when the kids were old enough to test. Most states with broad testing requirements do have exemptions and accomodations.

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I am not wringing my hands about individual homeschoolers who are, for what ever reason, neglecting formal school activities. Loving supportive parents are doing the most important aspects of their job. Learning is the natural state of children. If the parents are not preventing their child from educating themselves, it is likely the children will be able to succeed in building a life. Emotional and family stability is of immeasurable value.

 

Educationally, I am much more concerned about the large number of children slipping through the cracks in schools. When a homeschooled child isn't receiving formal lessons, the alternatives are more time outdoors, creative play with siblings, and gaining life skills. When a schooled child isn't learning formal academics, what is happening instead is discouragement and frustration. 

 

In a perfect world that might be true, but the homeschoolers I've seen who were completely neglecting their kids' educations also weren't encouraging them to play outside or do anything at all besides watch Youtube videos all day long. There was plenty of discouragement and frustration. At least in a public school kids will be exposed to different ideas, even if the school isn't teaching them adequately. 

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Even though the requirements are super-easy, they discourage people from pulling their kids out of public school based on a whim or over petty frustrations. I can't tell you the number of times someone has approached me to ask about homeschooling, because they're so frustrated over math instruction . . . or a change in bus routes. . . or whatever. As soon as I explain about going online to register and keeping attendance and annual testing, their whole demeanor changes. "Oh, never mind. I didn't realize it was so hard." I assure them that it's actually really easy and explain that no one has ever asked to see my records, but they are done with the homeschooling idea. 

 

 

Anyone who isn't sure they can homeschool because tracking attendance is too much work probably shouldn't be homeschooling, because it's a hell of a lot of work.

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I am pretty sure they had accomodations and exceptions, but we never were their when the kids were old enough to test. Most states with broad testing requirements do have exemptions and accomodations.

I've never heard of exceptions. 

DD has had accommodations - but only when she was in the private school for dyslexics, and then the accommodations were given by the tester, who was also an OG tutor, and knew very specifically how to best give those accommodations. Without such a person there to give the accommodations, I'm curious how accommodations would best be given for children with language based learning differences.

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I've never heard of exceptions.

DD has had accommodations - but only when she was in the private school for dyslexics, and then the accommodations were given by the tester, who was also an OG tutor, and knew very specifically how to best give those accommodations. Without such a person there to give the accommodations, I'm curious how accommodations would best be given for children with language based learning differences.

Some children in some states we have lived have been disabled enough that they were not required to test, you had to get a doctor's note. The test was short, too, just the reading and math portion of the ITBS, but you could take all sections if you wanted, but just those two were required and tracked, but not tracked by student, just averages. A moderate disability or learning problem would have accomodations to fit the problem. I think Arkansas was one of them, I think they listed number of accomodation students and number of exemptions in their report. The data was interesting, they aggregated it by county and grade, and like the article said, every year the scores were above average, and a there are a number of homeschoolers in Arkansas, it is popular there.

 

I do think the tests motivated a few people even though there were no penalties for doing poorly, in other states with less requirements, I knew a few homeschoolers whose children were behind and they did not realize it until later, it would have been easier for them to catch early. (I always tell people about my reading grade level tests and volunteer to help them get their kids in track if there are problems. With homeschoolers, the parents are usually capable of teaching, but I have directly helped out folks with deployed spouses or a parents lot of kids and toddlers, or those with speech or language problems.)

Edited by ElizabethB
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I'm grateful there is no testing requirement here, even though I don't mind some oversight. For 2E children like my own, testing is a nightmare. Even if the results don't have to be turned in, it's a huge amount of unnecessary stress for many similar children. 

Of course, I'm pretty anti-standardized tests. I think they show very little of what a child actually knows - unless that child is a good test-taker. 

 

In our state the parents choose the test and the level of test given. So a special-needs or 2E child can take an individualized test like the Woodcock-Johnson (where the tester will end the test section as soon as it becomes too difficult or frustrating for the child) or they can take a traditional standardized test like the Iowa at a lower grade level with accommodations. I would assume, though, that most parents of special-needs or 2E children have already done a heck of a lot of testing and have a very good idea of where their child is currently working.

 

The testing requirement is really meant to be a safety net for the clueless or neglectful parent who thinks their 3rd grader is getting plenty of math by tagging along to the grocery store and doesn't really realize that most 3rd graders have mastered addition and are now working on multiplication tables. For parents like that, discovering what types of questions are on the test and then seeing the test results can be a wake-up call regardless of the validity of standardized test scores in general. Yes, most 3rd graders can work math problems on paper. Yes, maybe you should consider doing more math than what your child can pick up on a trip to the grocery store.

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Anyone who isn't sure they can homeschool because tracking attendance is too much work probably shouldn't be homeschooling, because it's a hell of a lot of work.

 

Amen. Checking off attendance days on a calendar is by far the easiest part of my job as a homeschooler.

 

I always walk away from these situations a little relieved that their interest in homeschooling has suddenly waned. But I have to wonder what these people think I'm doing at home all day long with my kids if they're so surprised to discover that there are any requirements for homeschoolers. 

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Some children in some states we have lived have been disabled enough that they were not required to test, you had to get a doctor's note. The test was short, too, just the reading and math portion of the ITBS, but you could take all sections if you wanted, but just those two were required and tracked, but not tracked by student, just averages. A moderate disability or learning problem would have accomodations to fit the problem. I think Arkansas was one of them, I think they listed number of accomodation students and number of exemptions in their report. The data was interesting, they aggregated it by county and grade, and like the article said, every year the scores were above average, and a there are a number of homeschoolers in Arkansas, it is popular there.

 

Here in NY the kids have to score over the 33rd percentile, OR make a full year's worth of progress (as in, the amount of progress a normal kid would make in a year, which is not realistic if you have a low IQ kid or w/e - luckily my kid doesn't have a low IQ (anymore... he did have a verbal IQ of 75 when he was 4yo, so that was scary)). I haven't seen anything about accommodations or exceptions, and as the parent of a special needs kid, I really do not appreciate the additional burden of having to find out extra stuff about accommodations or exceptions for testing (I've got enough things to worry about). I think 33rd percentile is too high a cut-off. Fully 1/3 of kids don't score that high. I think an FYI testing requirement or a 5th (or maybe even 10th) percentile score cut-off would make more sense.

 

ETA: of course, anyone with kids scoring below the 33rd percentile does have the option of moving to another state - I hear NJ has lax regulations.

Edited by luuknam
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The testing requirement is really meant to be a safety net for the clueless or neglectful parent who thinks their 3rd grader is getting plenty of math by tagging along to the grocery store and doesn't really realize that most 3rd graders have mastered addition and are now working on multiplication tables. For parents like that, discovering what types of questions are on the test and then seeing the test results can be a wake-up call regardless of the validity of standardized test scores in general. Yes, most 3rd graders can work math problems on paper. Yes, maybe you should consider doing more math than what your child can pick up on a trip to the grocery store.

 

Wait, mentally figuring out what the price after taxes is on $173.24 worth of groceries when the tax rate is 8.25% isn't good enough for 3rd grade?

 

(just kidding, I know what you meant, and I agree - but I've also had my 3rd grader ballpark costs after tax in the checkout line - though only with estimation, not to the penny - and I've had people stare at us while we were doing that, though the fact my 3rd grader *looks* 6yo probably didn't help - he's really almost 9)

Edited by luuknam
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I'm grateful there is no testing requirement here, even though I don't mind some oversight. For 2E children like my own, testing is a nightmare. Even if the results don't have to be turned in, it's a huge amount of unnecessary stress for many similar children.

Of course, I'm pretty anti-standardized tests. I think they show very little of what a child actually knows - unless that child is a good test-taker.

My state requires testing OR an alternative assessment done by a certified teacher. There are many homeschooling parents who used to be school teachers who will sign off on a portfolio or other alternate assessment. Jean and I live in the same state. Parents who don't want to test have another fairly easy option. Edited by LucyStoner
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The testing requirement is really meant to be a safety net for the clueless or neglectful parent who thinks their 3rd grader is getting plenty of math by tagging along to the grocery store and doesn't really realize that most 3rd graders have mastered addition and are now working on multiplication tables. For parents like that, discovering what types of questions are on the test and then seeing the test results can be a wake-up call regardless of the validity of standardized test scores in general. Yes, most 3rd graders can work math problems on paper. Yes, maybe you should consider doing more math than what your child can pick up on a trip to the grocery store.

On the other hand, the child of a non-clueless, non-neglectful parent, who's chosen to hold off on some types of pencil and paper math exercises for what they consider a good reason (such as a different educational philosophy), could be needlessly upset by the testing experience.  

 

Testing is not a neutral thing.   It has effects on the children's attitudes about themselves, and -- from their noticing whether their parents take it seriously or not -- about the value of schoolwork and testing itself.  Often, a bright child won't be happy with any of the answers to a multiple-choice question.  There can also be parts that don't make sense in the context of the family's value system.  When the children are in high school, they'll have to figure out how to handle these situations, but I don't see a benefit in starting earlier. 

 

And BTW, I have a child with special needs who hasn't had a formal reading test for years, and has never had a formal math test.   The primary curriculum isn't that complex.  I can see with my own eyes where progress is being made.  The idea of doing a below-level test, especially with a child who isn't evenly delayed in every area (which AFAIK is most children with SN), seems like pure hoop-jumping. 

 

If the point of "testing for information" is to let the parents know what's considered standard at that age, why not just let them know?  Give them a copy of a paper test, let them look it over, and then let them administer and score it if they see fit.  Seems much more fair to the children.  "First, do no harm." 

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NY allows them until fourth grade and then every other year until high school. You must test alternate years from 4-8 and sll high school. You may give standardized test each year if you want.

 

Pennsylvania require portfolio reviews.

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Is my state the only one that allows for a portfolio review in lieu of testing?  Do all states allow them?  Do just some? 

 

Florida does as well. Whether you opt for a standardized test or a portfolio review, a state-certified teacher must sign off saying that the child is making progress commensurate with ability. I love that, because it means each child can be held to the standard appropriate for him or her. 

 

We are actually required to maintain a portfolio (regardless of which annual evaluation option we choose), but the guidelines are very broad. The school district can request to see the portfolio with 15 days' notice (I think that's how many days!), but they cannot evaluate it in any way--that is just there so they can confirm that the parents actually are complying with the law and maintaining the portfolio.

Edited by purpleowl
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Is my state the only one that allows for a portfolio review in lieu of testing?  Do all states allow them?  Do just some? 

 

NY allows them until fourth grade and then every other year until high school. You must test alternate years from 4-8 and all high school. You may give standardized test each year if you want.

 

It's not simply a portfolio review though. It's a written narrative by someone who has interviewed the child and looked at a portfolio. The good news is that many (but not all) districts allow the parents to write the written narrative, but I have no particular desire to have someone 'interview' my child to determine if my kid has made adequate progress. At least he did okay on the standardized test - less hassle than interview + portfolio.

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Is my state the only one that allows for a portfolio review in lieu of testing?  Do all states allow them?  Do just some? 

 

VT has portfolio, teacher assessment or testing as options. We're one of the more highly regulated states, but I don't mind it, especially if it keeps kids from slipping through the cracks.

 

We have to submit a letter from the pedi stating there are no learning disabilities. If there are any learning disabilities, the parent needs to submit accommodations. We only have to submit the pedi letter the first year.

 

The first 2 years, we submit a minimum course of study (MCOS), saying what we are planning on covering in the 7 subject areas VT has deemed necessary. This is where I get a bit crabby as we are required to teach more than the public schools cover. (health every year, Vermont studies every year)

 

At the end of every year, we submit either a portfolio, teacher assessment or standardized testing results. If we go the testing route, we also have to add on a portfolio for the things the tests didn't cover (health, VT studies, literature, PE and fine arts). 

 

Someone from the home study office reviews each student's progress every year and we are sent a letter letting us know the prior year is complete and we are approved for another year. We do portfolios and I actually like doing them. I love having a nice document at the end of the year. I have to do a little write up of each subject with 4-6 work examples. It's been really nice to see progress and it's also something I can e-mail to my dad every year. He loves that we homeschool and it's a way for him to really see what we do throughout the school year.

 

We have to show progress consummate with age and ability, or something like that every year. And they take it seriously.They will call you if they feel you haven't shown enough. If you can't prove you actually taught your child, you will get called to a hearing in front of the secretary of education and they can require you to enroll your child in school. I have never heard of that happening to anyone and we have a lot of unschoolers here. They just want to make sure kids aren't slipping through the cracks. 

 

(sorry, this got long!)

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We have to submit a letter from the pedi stating there are no learning disabilities. If there are any learning disabilities, the parent needs to submit accommodations. We only have to submit the pedi letter the first year.

 

 

This part is problematic, in that pediatricians are not qualified to diagnose LDs.

 

I appreciate that NC does not make us do state studies or (any specific content within the expected subject areas of English, math, science and social studies).

 

Making progress commensurate with ability is an appropriate standard for kids with special needs, but I wonder if it could be a problem for kids identified as gifted. (What happens if you stay on an 8th-grade level through 3rd, 4th and 5th grades?)

 

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Is my state the only one that allows for a portfolio review in lieu of testing?  Do all states allow them?  Do just some? 

Maine allows for portfolio review by state certified teacher OR standardized test.  I do portfolio one year, testing the next year. 

 

I keep paperwork (book lists, samples of work, etc.) for each child, for each year, no matter which form of review I do. I don't have to submit this paperwork to the school district/state, I just do it for memory's sake. Since I make my own lesson plans, keeping these records yearly also helps me (in theory ;) ) not have to re-invent the wheel for each child. I can look and see what has already been done and adjust as needed for the next child.

 

 I also like to keep a paper trail to show that we have indeed been *doing something*.

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On the other hand, the child of a non-clueless, non-neglectful parent, who's chosen to hold off on some types of pencil and paper math exercises for what they consider a good reason (such as a different educational philosophy), could be needlessly upset by the testing experience.  

 

Testing is not a neutral thing.   It has effects on the children's attitudes about themselves, and -- from their noticing whether their parents take it seriously or not -- about the value of schoolwork and testing itself.  Often, a bright child won't be happy with any of the answers to a multiple-choice question.  There can also be parts that don't make sense in the context of the family's value system.  When the children are in high school, they'll have to figure out how to handle these situations, but I don't see a benefit in starting earlier. 

 

And BTW, I have a child with special needs who hasn't had a formal reading test for years, and has never had a formal math test.   The primary curriculum isn't that complex.  I can see with my own eyes where progress is being made.  The idea of doing a below-level test, especially with a child who isn't evenly delayed in every area (which AFAIK is most children with SN), seems like pure hoop-jumping. 

 

If the point of "testing for information" is to let the parents know what's considered standard at that age, why not just let them know?  Give them a copy of a paper test, let them look it over, and then let them administer and score it if they see fit.  Seems much more fair to the children.  "First, do no harm." 

 

I'm not arguing in favor of standardized testing as the best method of self-check. I'm just explaining how parents of special-needs children are handling the requirement in our state. In the situation you're describing, most parents locally are choosing the Woodcock-Johnson, because it's given orally in a one-on-one setting and the tester will end any section of the test when it becomes too challenging for the child or the child shows any signs of frustration. It also allows children to progress as far as they are able in areas where they are stronger.

 

I am arguing in favor of having both registration combined with some sort of requirement that acts as a self-check. There are a multitude of potential requirements that a state could go with:

1. Annual standardized testing where the parent chooses the test & there is no minimum score required (what my state requires)

2. Testing only in certain years

3. Parents choose between testing or portfolio

4. Annual portfolio assessment

5. Tracking days of instruction

6. Tracking hours of instruction

 

I think any of these combined with registration will help prevent educational neglect. I'm just not comfortable with having no registration or requirements of any kind. I think that can do as much harm as over-burdensome regulations.

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This part is problematic, in that pediatricians are not qualified to diagnose LDs.

 

I appreciate that NC does not make us do state studies or (any specific content within the expected subject areas of English, math, science and social studies).

 

Making progress commensurate with ability is an appropriate standard for kids with special needs, but I wonder if it could be a problem for kids identified as gifted. (What happens if you stay on an 8th-grade level through 3rd, 4th and 5th grades?)

 

 

It's a bit more involved, but my post was getting long, so I didn't want to make it even longer. 

 

DS is accelerated and I hold back a bit with our portfolios for just this reason. I submit honest samples of his work, but I don't share everything. They're really flexible in practice. The people working at the home study office are mostly former homeschool moms and are very pro homeschooling. If you submit a curriculum at the start of the year and want to change halfway through, that's not a problem at all. There are many teachers who also love doing homeschool assessments and apparently they're a lot of fun for the homeschooler and very non-stressful.

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I think any of these combined with registration will help prevent educational neglect. I'm just not comfortable with having no registration or requirements of any kind. I think that can do as much harm as over-burdensome regulations.

I heartily agree with this. Most homeschool parents are self-motivated and don't need anyone to monitor them, but those few people who tend toward educational neglect are often motivated if they know someone is going to check up on them. It is worth it for all of us to put up with a little regulation in order to hep those kids who would otherwise be neglected.

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I heartily agree with this. Most homeschool parents are self-motivated and don't need anyone to monitor them, but those few people who tend toward educational neglect are often motivated if they know someone is going to check up on them. It is worth it for all of us to put up with a little regulation in order to hep those kids who would otherwise be neglected.

I agree, too. I have had folks who moved to my high regulation state say that the end of the year assessments caused them to up their game. I have also seen families who were shocked by the first standardized tests make some changes in their schools. It also helps the kids whose parents are either in denial of of ignorance of learning disabilities.

 

However, some states, including NY, where I live have over the top regulations and paperwork--crazy over the top. A yearly, or every other year, test or portfolio review is sufficient, imho. And I don't think parents should have to submit a plan unless their children aren't maki progress.

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I am not wringing my hands about individual homeschoolers who are, for what ever reason, neglecting formal school activities. Loving supportive parents are doing the most important aspects of their job. Learning is the natural state of children. If the parents are not preventing their child from educating themselves, it is likely the children will be able to succeed in building a life. Emotional and family stability is of immeasurable value.

 

Educationally, I am much more concerned about the large number of children slipping through the cracks in schools. When a homeschooled child isn't receiving formal lessons, the alternatives are more time outdoors, creative play with siblings, and gaining life skills. When a schooled child isn't learning formal academics, what is happening instead is discouragement and frustration.

I share your belief that this is a general issue and not a homeschooling issue.

 

However your presentation of the homeschool alternatives are idyllic, idealistic, and may be unrealistic.

 

Girls may be caring for sibs. Kids may be on Minecraft or other games. Kids may be indoors, bored out of their skulls. Kids may be hiding in their rooms from an alcoholic parent who "homeschools" them to keep out from the radar of public school. In some conservative communities, kids are married off early (extremist Muslim and extremist Christian).

 

I can envision many scenarios, some of which have bees described on this board, in which children are seriously neglected in a homeschool environment. TV is on but it's "Christian" so that's okay. Etc.

 

If they are "only" going outdoors, building, working on a farm, reading books on their own, etc. fine. Well, not fine, but could be worse. But that's the ideal. Not necessarily reality.

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I like the amount of oversight in our state - we send in a letter of intent and we have standardized testing or portfolio review every year from age 8 up. It isn't an onerous system. That said, there really isn't any enforcement of that, I don't think. I think it would only come up if the family was already on the authorities' radar for other things.

There's no money for follow up. :(

 

I agree that here it is mainly documentation to discourage people from totally blowing it off, and in case the court needs ammo in a custody or neglect case. In that case a parent who demanded full residence because of homeschooling if all the kids are 4 grade levels behind and no LD diagnosis is gonna have a bad time (and rightly so).

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There's no money for follow up. :(

 

 

 

 

This. There isn't enough money for the Office of Child Services to spread them even thinner keeping track of homeschool parents. 

 

In our state you can independently homeschool with no regulations and homeschool through a correspondence or charter school program and get free money. I usually hang with homeschoolers that are independent and these are people I wish could school my children rather than me  :p  and I'm working my fanny off. 

 

The case I spoke of above where I stepped in and helped though was actually children in a correspondence program. The teacher contact they had every month, the ILP's, the standardized tests, didn't help clue the state in at all. One had an established LD but the other didn't. They were both waaaayyyy behind but there are hundreds of homeschoolers behind and to think talking with a parent once a month is going to establish the "why" when it could be any number of things is asking an awful lot from a teacher. Through this particular circumstance I met other homeschoolers that really were what most of you call negligent with their children's education and they were all in the programs because they could get money.  A lot of stuff doesn't help you though if you don't consistently use it. Anyway, laws requiring testing and all that really just make people feel better about homeschoolers but don't really change how any particular child is being schooled, at least in my experience. 

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