College financing - two things I learned and our story

[Azalea]

Before going through the process, I didn't know that the schools could offer you less than the regular amount for Stafford loans. In other words, I believe $5500 is standard for freshman year, but the school may only offer $4500 in a loan. 

 

Also, I didn't know that this loan could not be paid back with money that has been saved in a 529 plan or ESA. It makes sense once you think about it why the government requires the 529 plan funds to be spent directly on tuition and books, etc. since someone could take a loan and then buy non-school items, I just hadn't considered this wrinkle, so wanted to pass it along.

 

I appreciate all the information I have gleaned from this board over the years. I have friends who are just now realizing the true expense of college, I'm glad I began the grief process when my oldest was in 8th grade.

 

My dd was accepted at the colleges to which she applied, she only applied to two state universities. Her stats: completing community college at 18 with two associates - general studies, and fit tech GPA 3.8, ACT score 30,  3 AP classes, job teaching taekwondo, 2 internships, went to nationals in tkd twice. Total academic scholarship offered by more expensive university $2500, reduced loan amount offered. Scholarship would reduce the cost of college to $27,000 per year with three years needed to complete degree. Our family is not eligible for need based aid. 

 

My dd has decided to stay home and attend the local state university, I am disappointed in her choice, but fully understand her desire to be financially responsible as she intends to go to graduate school.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[G5052]

My dd was accepted at the colleges to which she applied, she only applied to two state universities. Her stats: completing community college at 18 with two associates - general studies, and fit tech GPA 3.8, ACT score 30,  3 AP classes, job teaching taekwondo, 2 internships, went to nationals in tkd twice. Total academic scholarship offered by more expensive university $2500, reduced loan amount offered. Scholarship would reduce the cost of college to $27,000 per year with three years needed to complete degree. Our family is not eligible for need based aid. 

 

My dd has decided to stay home and attend the local state university, I am disappointed in her choice, but fully understand her desire to be financially responsible as she intends to go to graduate school.  

 

That's our story too, and I hear it over and over. Of course there are the families who are borrowing tens of thousands too, but we outright rejected that.

 

In the scheme of things, I think that keeping the finances reasonable and going to a name brand school even if it's not tippy-top is best.

[Random]

Thank you for the information. 

 

Fall 2016, I'll have my first 9th grade student, and I'm already feeling so anxious about university costs.

 

I don't want to naively think it'll all just 'be okay' if my kids do well in high school and on testing.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Thanks for sharing that.  It's a harsh reality check, but probably much needed.  I keep hoping that my dd will get scholarship money if she works hard and does well, but it sounds like your dd is a strong student and it didn't really help with scholarships.  That is very disappointing.  We are fortunate in that we have a decent university about an hour from our house.  That is our fallback option.  But, after all these years of homeschooling, I really wanted my kids to be able to go away to college.  Both of them, but especially my ds.

 

I do hope your dd enjoys her experience even though it is not what she had planned and that all works out well for her.

Edited May 26, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[G5052]

Thanks for sharing that.  It's a harsh reality check, but probably much needed.  I keep hoping that my dd will get scholarship money if she works hard and does well, but it sounds like your dd is a strong student and it didn't really help with scholarships.  That is very disappointing.  We are fortunate in that we have a decent university about an hour from our house.  That is our fallback option.  But, after all these years of homeschooling, I really wanted my kids to be able to go away to college.  Both of them, but especially my ds.

 

I do hope your dd enjoys her experience even though it is not what she had planned and that all works out well for her.

 

Yes, sometimes there's an underlying philosophy that people who qualify only for merit aid need just a token, not a big chunk.

 

The bigger scholarships are reserved for need-based with merit. I see why they do that of course, but a lot of us live in the gap. Too rich for need-based, and too poor to contribute tens of thousands of dollars of family income per year. Being debt-adverse is a issue too. You're supposed to want a particular school so badly that you'll do anything.

[Pegasus]

Before going through the process, I didn't know that the schools could offer you less than the regular amount for Stafford loans. In other words, I believe $5500 is standard for freshman year, but the school may only offer $4500 in a loan. 

 

As long as there is room between the grants/scholarships and any other funding that you are receiving and the full COA of the school, then you can get the full amount of the direct student loans. Sometimes schools offer less, but you can go back and request the full amount.  Most/all of it may be unsubsidized though.  It's from the Feds, not the school, so the rules are black and white.  I finally found the official government guidebook intended for the college/university financial aid offices online.  It is long and dense but finally got some of my questions answered that I couldn't find anywhere else.

[Grantmom]

 

Also, I didn't know that this loan could not be paid back with money that has been saved in a 529 plan or ESA. 

 

Can you tell us more about this?  If you have money in a 529, why wouldn't you just use that and pay it directly to the school?  Is there a reason why one wouldn't be able to do that, and why you would want to be able to pay a loan back with money from the 529 plan? 

 

Thanks for sharing your story.  It's the reality, but it helps to know as much as possible going into it.

[Azalea]

Hi Grantmom, those are good questions. My husband (and many others) feel that kids should have "skin in the game." In other words, help pay for college themselves. I go back and forth as to whether this is a good idea or not. My daughter asked if she could take the full loan offered, she wants to start building a credit history. I will probably pay off the loan myself as I can't bare to think of all that interest accumulating through the graduate school years. Our family has saved for college, but probably not enough to fully pay for all three kids. Additionally, my husbands company is laying off employees left and right and my daughter was trying to be compassionate and helpful. 

[GoodGrief]

Thank you for sharing your story. I really like reading about the various paths our students take to college. It's good to know the reality of admissions and college financing and all the twists and turns that occur along the way. I actually thought about starting a thread where we could all share our "in hindsight" tales, but have not gotten around to it yet :-)

[Lucy the Valiant]

Helpful for the rest of us, thank you.

[J-rap]

I'm sorry, but hopefully it will still be a great experience for your dd!  

 

I do get frustrated with the stereotypical image our society has put on what college ought to be -- "The College Experience."  Maybe at one time, that experience was affordable to everyone, so that expectation was okay.  My father said that when he was in college, in the 40's, our state's flagship university presented itself as everyone's school.  The school would make sure anyone from our state could go there if they wanted to, and it was very, very cheap.  Just a tiny percentage of a family's income.  Now, that same school has become so expensive and exclusive, that many solid students from within our state can't even get into it.  Times have changed, and I think it's okay for our expectations of the college experience to change too.

 

Only one of my five children will have had the more traditional college experience.  They either went to state colleges or private liberal arts colleges that offered huge merit scholarships and where they could live with relatives;  one of them went out of the country altogether to attend a great private college that cost peanuts.  And it's all okay.  They will have gotten their degrees and have no loans at the end.  My dd who lived with her grandma and then her aunt while she attended an in-state university is now spending money traveling the world and enjoying life instead of worrying about loans.  She'll go on to graduate school though, which is where she'll need to be more picky.

 

I'm not saying there aren't occasions where having the traditional experience is not necessary or right;  if it works out, great, or for certain careers then very specific universities are definitely worth it.  But in most cases, it isn't, and it's okay.

 

The U.S. stereotypical college experience is actually quite different than it is in most parts of the world.  We've put this weird expectation on it that in a way seems unnatural.

 

Boy, I got off on that soapbox!  Sorry!  It's just something I feel strongly about.     :grouphug:

[TammyS]

As long as there is room between the grants/scholarships and any other funding that you are receiving and the full COA of the school, then you can get the full amount of the direct student loans. Sometimes schools offer less, but you can go back and request the full amount.  Most/all of it may be unsubsidized though.  It's from the Feds, not the school, so the rules are black and white.  I finally found the official government guidebook intended for the college/university financial aid offices online.  It is long and dense but finally got some of my questions answered that I couldn't find anywhere else.

 

Yes.  My ds's school only offered $3500 in loans for freshman year.  They really try hard to keep the kids loan amounts down.  But you can get them raised by contacting the financial aid office, if you wish.

[TammyS]

 My husband (and many others) feel that kids should have "skin in the game."

 

I agree with him as do many of my friends.  One way that some families I know have taken is that they have the kids take out the loans, then pay them off only after the kid has done an acceptable (to the parents) job at school.  If the kid messes about, loses scholarships, or just doesn't do their work, the parents don't pay the loan. This gives the kid a financial break, but makes sure they are invested in not messing about while they are in school.

[teachermom2834]

I agree with him as do many of my friends. One way that some families I know have taken is that they have the kids take out the loans, then pay them off only after the kid has done an acceptable (to the parents) job at school. If the kid messes about, loses scholarships, or just doesn't do their work, the parents don't pay the loan. This gives the kid a financial break, but makes sure they are invested in not messing about while they are in school.

We are doing this.

[FaithManor]

Yes, sometimes there's an underlying philosophy that people who qualify only for merit aid need just a token, not a big chunk.

 

The bigger scholarships are reserved for need-based with merit. I see why they do that of course, but a lot of us live in the gap. Too rich for need-based, and too poor to contribute tens of thousands of dollars of family income per year. Being debt-adverse is a issue too. You're supposed to want a particular school so badly that you'll do anything.

I agree completely and far more families are in the gap than are on the other ends due to how FAFSA is calculated.

[amsunshine]

We are in the proverbial gap, like many others.  We've already started discussing this with dds and how it impacts their college/university choices.  We are fortunate to live in a city with a well-respected UC and a good CSU.  The CSU offers full merit scholarships to local students with certain stats, so my dds know what to work toward in hs in terms of grades and test scores.  We've also discussed the availability of automatic full scholarships (at various other schools around the country) for students with certain high stats, as well, so they know these are options, too.  

 

Our goal is to have them graduate from college debt free, and to make sure they understand now what they will need to do to accomplish that.  It's easy to get starry eyed about this college or that university, but for many like us, it's not practical to have our kids apply to schools that don't offer significant merit aid. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by amsunshinetemp

[Lucy the Valiant]

(I'm embarrassed to ask this because I know that I *should* already know, but how does one find out if one is "in the gap"? Run the FAFSA while the kids are in middle school and then check out tuition rates? This is what I've been doing, but - it's still hard to understand, really.)

[wapiti]

(I'm embarrassed to ask this because I know that I *should* already know, but how does one find out if one is "in the gap"? Run the FAFSA while the kids are in middle school and then check out tuition rates? This is what I've been doing, but - it's still hard to understand, really.)

 

Try the calculators listed under Needs Analysis here:  http://www.finaid.org/calculators/  (ETA, there are surely sites with more up-to-date calculators; a quick google should turn up something.)

 

Also, most colleges have Net Price Calculators on their websites.

Edited May 27, 2016 by wapiti

[Carol in Cal.]

It's so unpredictable though.

Sometimes a college really wants a student for some reason, and offers more merit scholarship money than you might expect.  You really can't tell how much it's going to cost a student to go to a particular college until you are finished negotiating with them, and it can be difficult to do that and walk away if you or your child gets emotionally invested in the college during the process.

[amsunshine]

It's so unpredictable though.

Sometimes a college really wants a student for some reason, and offers more merit scholarship money than you might expect.  You really can't tell how much it's going to cost a student to go to a particular college until you are finished negotiating with them, and it can be difficult to do that and walk away if you or your child gets emotionally invested in the college during the process.

 

This is true, but generally speaking, the individual college websites will outline the amounts of merit aid each college offers.  So, one can at least narrow down one's search by eliminating the colleges that don't offer the level of merit aid needed.

Edited May 27, 2016 by amsunshinetemp

[hornblower]

completing community college at 18 with two associates - general studies, and fit tech 

 

 

 

Sorry for the rabbit trail but I don't know enough about the US system & want to ask about this. Aren't associates degrees 60 credits each? So she did 4 years of post secondary by the time she was 18? How does that work in your country? 

[OnMyOwn]

Try the calculators listed under Needs Analysis here: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/ (ETA, there are surely sites with more up-to-date calculators; a quick google should turn up something.)

 

Also, most colleges have Net Price Calculators on their websites.

But this doesn't really tell you if you are in the gap, does it? I calculated our EFC and then came here to ask questions and was told that with that EFC, colleges were not likely to meet need. So, if I hadn't asked here, I wouldn't have had any way of knowing that. I would have thought my EFC was the max I would have to pay. I'm still not sure what the point is in calculating the EFC, since it sounds like it is meaningless.

[MerryAtHope]

 

My dd has decided to stay home and attend the local state university, I am disappointed in her choice, but fully understand her desire to be financially responsible as she intends to go to graduate school.  

 

Her choice shows a lot of wisdom. In this day and age, finances really do drive the decision. I'd love my kids to be able to go to a 4-year school all the way through, but the reality is that there isn't one in our town--but I'm grateful that we have a decent CC with good transfer agreements with many 4-year schools. Congrats to you on your graduate! I hope the transition to college goes well.

[Laurel-in-CA]

We were fortunate with CalGrant for our oldest; it helped that we had 3 other kids at home! With our youngest, dh will be at his highest salary level (eligible to retire but can't afford it) and no other kids in the home. Frankly, no matter what she does it will be much more expensive than her older siblings, and we've had the least opportunity to save in her name (because, 3 other kids going to college). Going back to work @ 64 to finance her college....not sure it's even worth it. She'll be the one we work hardest to find scholarships for, without a doubt!

[amsunshine]

But this doesn't really tell you if you are in the gap, does it? I calculated our EFC and then came here to ask questions and was told that with that EFC, colleges were not likely to meet need. So, if I hadn't asked here, I wouldn't have had any way of knowing that. I would have thought my EFC was the max I would have to pay. I'm still not sure what the point is in calculating the EFC, since it sounds like it is meaningless.

 

Usually, the Net Price Calculators for individual colleges will give you an idea of what you are in for.  Being in the "gap" means no grants, low amount of estimated loans and the rest EFC.  (As they call it on college confidential:  "every freaking cent") 

 

eta:  Some NPCs are really cute and tell you how much in parent loans the student qualifies for.

Edited May 27, 2016 by amsunshinetemp

[KarenNC]

Can I ask where her GPA/ACT put her in comparison to the student profiles at the colleges where she applied? We're focusing on schools where my daughter's stats put her in the top 5-10% for the school in hopes of decent merit aid and it would be helpful to see if that might be at all realistic.

[Azalea]

Sorry for the rabbit trail but I don't know enough about the US system & want to ask about this. Aren't associates degrees 60 credits each? So she did 4 years of post secondary by the time she was 18? How does that work in your country? 

 

        Hi Hornblower, my daughter is not here right now and she may be able to offer more details, but briefly she started taking classes at 15, so went part time to community college for three years. Some of the classes between the degrees overlap, I believe.

[Azalea]

Can I ask where her GPA/ACT put her in comparison to the student profiles at the colleges where she applied? We're focusing on schools where my daughter's stats put her in the top 5-10% for the school in hopes of decent merit aid and it would be helpful to see if that might be at all realistic.

 

Hmmm...I don't know how to calculate that. I looked at the site College Simply, and an ACT score of 27 is 75th percentile, average GPA is 3.56, for the more expensive college where she did get a $2500 scholarship. 

[KarenNC]

Hmmm...I don't know how to calculate that. I looked at the site College Simply, and an ACT score of 27 is 75th percentile, average GPA is 3.56, for the more expensive college where she did get a $2500 scholarship. 

 

I use www.collegedata.com, which goes into more detail than many of the sites. Enter the college name, then click on the drop down from the name and look on the admissions page to find details on enrolled freshmen. To give examples:

 

For our state flagships:

UNC-Chapel Hill  97% have a GPA of 3.75 or better (on 4.0 scale), 47% have an ACT of 30-36 (75th is 32)

NC State    44% have GPA of 3.75 or better, 36% have an ACT of 30-36 (75th is 31)

 

For other good but not flagships

UNC-Charlotte    61% have GPA of 3.75 or better, 4% have ACT of 30-36 (75th is 25)

Appalachian State   79% have GPA of 3.75 or better,  9% have ACT of 30-36 (75th is 27)

 

From what I read, schools are more willing to give merit money to students who will raise their stats and hence their rankings. My thinking, therefore, is that an ACT of 30 (which is where my daughter currently is as well) is more likely to get a better merit aid offer from UNCC or Appalachian where she will be more of a standout than Chapel Hill or State. Not a guarantee, but I think the odds are better. So we are looking at colleges where she is in the top 10% for ACT, but which also have a decent honors program. Now she would prefer being a somewhat bigger fish in a somewhat smaller pond, so that helps.

[teachermom2834]

My ds applied to ten schools. Three of these he was in the top 5-10% of ACT scores. Of those three, one ended up being his most expensive option (EFC+ $8000), one came in EFC + $4000, the other came in about $4000 below EFC. All his other schools were in between those, even those that he was more average stats wise he did better financially.

 

He chose the cheapest one which also has the least name recognition.

 

So, test scores in the very top of the applicant pool didn't necessarily correlate to merit aid offers. The good news is, however, that we found net price calculators at the ten schools ds applied to be almost right on. So there were no surprises. While it is fine to shoot for the stars, I think many parents think their child will come up with a package much better than the net price calculator indicates. That could happen but I think that is an exception. Most of our children are just not so very special as to get much better than projected.

[Azalea]

I use www.collegedata.com, which goes into more detail than many of the sites. Enter the college name, then click on the drop down from the name and look on the admissions page to find details on enrolled freshmen. To give examples:

 

For our state flagships:

UNC-Chapel Hill  97% have a GPA of 3.75 or better (on 4.0 scale), 47% have an ACT of 30-36 (75th is 32)

NC State    44% have GPA of 3.75 or better, 36% have an ACT of 30-36 (75th is 31)

 

For other good but not flagships

UNC-Charlotte    61% have GPA of 3.75 or better, 4% have ACT of 30-36 (75th is 25)

Appalachian State   79% have GPA of 3.75 or better,  9% have ACT of 30-36 (75th is 27)

 

From what I read, schools are more willing to give merit money to students who will raise their stats and hence their rankings. My thinking, therefore, is that an ACT of 30 (which is where my daughter currently is as well) is more likely to get a better merit aid offer from UNCC or Appalachian where she will be more of a standout than Chapel Hill or State. Not a guarantee, but I think the odds are better. So we are looking at colleges where she is in the top 10% for ACT, but which also have a decent honors program. Now she would prefer being a somewhat bigger fish in a somewhat smaller pond, so that helps.

 

Okay, for the school I'm looking at the ACT score of 30-36 is 13%, GPA 3.75 and above is 40%. That's a wide range. Let's say the student had an ACT of 32 and a GPA of 3.9, from that info could they tell if how they ranked compared to the rest of the student body? I mean they would be at the top, but top what 6%, 16%?  

[OnMyOwn]

My ds applied to ten schools. Three of these he was in the top 5-10% of ACT scores. Of those three, one ended up being his most expensive option (EFC+ $8000), one came in EFC + $4000, the other came in about $4000 below EFC. All his other schools were in between those, even those that he was more average stats wise he did better financially.

 

He chose the cheapest one which also has the least name recognition.

 

So, test scores in the very top of the applicant pool didn't necessarily correlate to merit aid offers. The good news is, however, that we found net price calculators at the ten schools ds applied to be almost right on. So there were no surprises. While it is fine to shoot for the stars, I think many parents think their child will come up with a package much better than the net price calculator indicates. That could happen but I think that is an exception. Most of our children are just not so very special as to get much better than projected.

I am still trying to understand this. You said that the net price calculators were accurate. But you also said that one of the schools was EFC + $8000 and another was EFC + $4000. I thought the Net price calculator calculated EFC?

[teachermom2834]

Net price calculators are individual to the school. Schools can use the EFC however they like. Most will expect you to pay the EFC and then some. The EFC is the amount calculated by the FAFSA but schools use that number however they choose. Some leave bigger gaps than others even for top students.

Edited May 28, 2016 by teachermom2834

[OnMyOwn]

Net price calculators are individual to the school. Schools can use the EFC however they like. Most will expect you to pay the EFC and then some. The EFC is the amount calculated by the FAFSA but schools use that number however they choose. Some leave bigger gaps than others even for top students.

Oh, okay, that makes sense. It makes me feel a bit better too, because I have used some net price calculators for schools that might be a good fit for my kids and, while it was still very expensive, that amount might be possible for us. I was thinking the amount calculated by the net price calculator was the EFC. It's all so confusing. Thank you for explaining.

Edited May 28, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[teachermom2834]

It is confusing but it starts to come together and makes sense eventually. You are doing the right thing researching. I feel like the time I spent making sure I understood and searching for affordable schools was critical to my ds finding schools he could attend.

[FaithManor]

I am still trying to understand this. You said that the net price calculators were accurate. But you also said that one of the schools was EFC + $8000 and another was EFC + $4000. I thought the Net price calculator calculated EFC?

The difference is that EFC is not what you pay. It is what the government says you can pay. However, if your EFC is $10,000 and the school is $25,000 with merit aid of $4000.00 for the very few that didn't get one of their tiny handfuls of top awards, the bill is $25,000 - $4000 = $21,000 minus likely $3500 subsidized and $2000 unsubsidized leaving a net balance of $15,500.00. The gap is IF the parents can pay their EFC of $10,000 that leaves the student or the parent figuring out how to produce the other $5500.00. Work study is not offered at EFC's of this level so the student does not get a subsidized campus job. Therefore, often if the student doesn't have a way to make $5500.00 in the summers to pay up front then that means private loans, outside scholarships that are paid out to the student not the school so their federal loan eligibility will not be reduced or merit scholarships reduced - some schools do that too - or turning down the school. For many middle class families, NPC's will show them that gap, but not all of them are that accurate on top of which since it doesn't fully estimate potential merit aid given it can't take into account departmental scholarships, those that require attendance at a competition - like the multicultural scholarship at WMU or the full ride competitions at MTU - etc. Thus you can't know exactly where your kid will fall in the scholarship game. So if the estimated gap is not some gargantuan, Devil's Canyon gap, many students will apply and hope for a decent size award. It is often times about all a middle class family can do unless there is a good commuter university nearby that offers the student's major, and is also strong in that major...not always the case, certainly not for either of our younger ds's. However, if your kid is not in that top 10-15% it may not even be worth applying since it simply isn't affordable without a tippy top merit award. In the case of eldest boy, he was offered a half ride which is HUGE for Alma College plus the Christian Leadership Award plus $2000.00 for his art portfolio and even with us paying our EFC there was still a $7500.00 gap. He liked the school but not enough to take out a gazillion loans and that year we were tighter than we are now. Thankfully, his financial safety turned out to be a school he ended up loving and thriving at. I can't believe how well he has blossomed there.

 

The way we will make it work for two college students is Western Michigan U has an interest free payment plan so some of it is being budgeted like a monthly debt payment, just not incurring interest. Some of it is being paid out of money we saved - that's the money for eldest boy - and the balance at Western for middle boy is coming out of dh's 2015 bonus which he received after the first of the year, and tax refund because we could deduct a portion of what we paid for eldest to go to school. Since we put that away for college, it meant we could meet our EFC plus what would have been a $4000.00 gap, and could continue to do so for the foreseeable future since dh's annual bonus is generous and it looked like congress will renew the education tax credits. Ds earning $5000.00 at TARC Finals was a nice piece of insurance for us. Youngest has that to put away as well for when he goes two years from now. 

 

Middle ds is going to apply to be an RA when he is an upper classman because it is free room and board that is a $9500.00 savings per year on top of his renewable scholarships. Eldest boy has paid tutoring on campus and was just offered a TA job so he may do well enough that we can reduce our contribution next year for him. The dicey time is going to be when youngest enters college because for one year we will have three in at once. We've never known anyone at our income level (which is not anything remotely well to do and especially when one considers the cost of college for three) cut even the slightest break for having three students at once. Usually they report their EFC from when the first collegian entered school is multiplied by just about three and that's their insane, crazy, EFC so we expect that half of our take home income will be expected by the Fed to go towards college and who knows how big the gaps will be. I don't even like to think about it. I really don't. This is why I will be going back to work. We don't get any need aid now so my working won't hurt. Youngest has the most expensive of the majors - aerospace/robotics engineering.

 

However, the plan for me to go back to work this fall while my last high schooler takes math with dad, foreign language and literature with me, and we farm out the rest to online DE has been put on hold because it looks like we have three 4H kids to join ds on a Student Launch Initiative NASA project. If their proposal goes through so they get the grant from NASA, I will have to help dh mentor these high schoolers through a college level aerospace engineering project and assist with fundraising because the grant will not cover all their costs nor their travel to Marshall Space Flight in Huntsville next April. Ds is already slated to do the MOOC Robotics Engineering Course through UPenn with capstone project as well so he is going to need to do less DE from U of MI Flint and have most of his subjects with me in order to have the flexibility needed to do both projects. I have to admit to being a little worried about not earning next year. On the other hand, I can't bring myself to deny him the opportunity to do SLI so if you see me in 2018 panhandling on street corners in Mid-Michigan, you'll know we just bought three kids' college books and now have no food!  :D

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I am still trying to understand this. You said that the net price calculators were accurate. But you also said that one of the schools was EFC + $8000 and another was EFC + $4000. I thought the Net price calculator calculated EFC?

 

The FAFSA uses a (mostly?) standard model to calculate how much money a family can be expected to be able to pay up front for school - the EFC.  The Net Price Calculator takes the college's policies regarding need based aid and automatic merit aid to come up with what the total cost of attendance will be (less any direct aid).

 

Unfortunately, there is often a gap between the Net Price (after merit and need based aid) and the EFC.  Not only that, but the EFC is often wildly out of alignment with what a family actually has available or feels comfortalbe spending on college each year.  (Our EFC was around 1/4 of annual income and about 1/3 of the AGI on our taxes.)

 

So you can thumbnail your EFC, but that may not give you the full picture of what a particular college will cost.  The Net Price Calculator will include things like room and board, books and transportation to and from school.  A college is not required to meet the diffrence between cost and EFC.  They may point the family towards loans (including Parent Plus loans, which imho are a bad choice.)

 

It is well worth running a few Net Price Calculators early in the game.  IMHO, the numbers are quite staggering.  

 

This is part of why so many students apply to the endowment-rich highly selective colleges.  They often meet all need or have a sliding scale.  So a family that doesn't have much income may pay less at a highly selective school -- IF the student is accepted.

 

How to Pay for College without Going Broke is a useful book.  Many libraries have it.  I would recommend going through it when your student is a freshman or sophomore, so that if you decide to restructure where investments are or fully fund retirement accounts or take other actions to reduce your cash on hand, you have time.  

 

Debt Free U also has an interesting point of view.  I think it is worth reading to see his perspective on small school vs large school and fit.  I would like to see this updated, since I think he was still in school or recently graduated when he wrote it.

[JanetC]

Can I ask where her GPA/ACT put her in comparison to the student profiles at the colleges where she applied? We're focusing on schools where my daughter's stats put her in the top 5-10% for the school in hopes of decent merit aid and it would be helpful to see if that might be at all realistic.

 

There is also supply and demand: Schools in higher demand do not have to offer more scholarships to fill their classes. On the other hand, schools that are lower in rankings have less demand, as do schools that are accepting 70% or more of applicants. If these schools can afford a merit aid program (endowment size is available in ipeds), the merit aid will be more generous than at the "popular" schools.

[JanetC]

How to Pay for College without Going Broke is a useful book.  Many libraries have it.  I would recommend going through it when your student is a freshman or sophomore, so that if you decide to restructure where investments are or fully fund retirement accounts or take other actions to reduce your cash on hand, you have time.  

 

 

Be aware that the high school class of 2017 is facing a new financial aid system as well as a new SAT, due to Prior Prior Year FAFSA. The 2016 edition of the book does have some previews of these changes, but do not rely on an older library edition than that!

[G5052]

 I have to admit to being a little worried about not earning next year. On the other hand, I can't bring myself to deny him the opportunity to do SLI so if you see me in 2018 panhandling on street corners in Mid-Michigan, you'll know we just bought three kids' college books and now have no food!  :D

 

I hear you. I totalled up the books for the accountant at tax time. It was about $900. I resold some of those for about $200. I haven't had the guts to look yet on fall, although I bought one book I knew he'd need for $20 because he was already wanting it (weight training class).

[goldberry]

We have a local state university that is affordable for DD to attend and live at home.  That is our most likely scenario.  She would love to do something else, but at least we know there is one affordable option.  Literally all other colleges DD has looked at are not going to be affordable without significant merit aid.  We won't qualify for need based.  And no, we likely not be able to afford our EFC!  The EFC seems like a bad joke that bears no resemblance to reality.

 

DD is pretty good academically and tests well.  But I have heard too many stories about that not meaning much.  People that know her keep saying, "Oh, I'm sure she'll get scholarships!"  But actually no, I know plenty of kids as good or better than her who are NOT getting scholarships of any significant amount.

 

She knows that she can apply wherever she would like, but the acceptance letter means nothing until we see financial aid numbers.  She also knows the local uni is the most likely outcome.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Be aware that the high school class of 2017 is facing a new financial aid system as well as a new SAT, due to Prior Prior Year FAFSA. The 2016 edition of the book does have some previews of these changes, but do not rely on an older library edition than that!

 

What I did was skim a somewhat older edition (like 2012) when my kids were a bit younger, in order to get the idea of what different financial aid terms meant and how family assets would be considered.  Then I bought a new edition right before senior year in order to have the most up to date information about the specifics of the FAFSA and CSS/Profile form.

 

As you point out, you have to try to stay up to date on changes and nuances.  (The thing about colleges using the order that schools were listed on the FAFSA as some crypto indication of school preference is an example.  I rarely saw this discussed and it certainly didn't come up on the FAFSA form itself.  I'm happy to see particular point go away.)

[Hilltopmom]

I've gotta say, I love this board!  We really had no clue until we started reading here last year that ds likely really needs to at least start at our local State U( & live at home, or possibly grandparents place in town) after doing DE at the CC locally.

Yikes, places are just pricey! then room and board

[hopskipjump]

This year was such an incredible (not-always-fun) learning experience for our entire family. One year ago, I honestly had no idea what we were getting in to. I *thought* I'd done my homework, but quickly learned I'd relied tooooooo much on people who had gone through the process 5-10 years ago (and it's an entirely different world now!!) - and a lot of what I thought was true, was no longer applicable.

 

We've made many school/life adjustments based upon what we learned during dd#1s senior year. She, in the end, chose a school that has a lot of the intangibles that really were important to her... it's a relatively expensive university, but with academic/athletic scholarships, she's in a great place. A school we barely even knew existed one year ago (it isn't in our area, and before this year - we were ONLY looking at local/state universities).

 

The shocking revelation for us was how expensive the local state flagship was going to be!!! Their paltry academic scholarship (it was the smallest one dd was offered) was ... eye-opening. :mellow:

 

When compared to Alabama (where she received their automatic full-tuition scholarship), it would have cost more $$ for her to go to the local state U. I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that could be true. (assuming she lived on campus, or out-of-the-home, in both cases). INCLUDING travel costs to get her to Alabama and home again!

 

So thankful for this board to bounce ideas and thoughts off of. What a life-saver!!!

[TammyS]

 

 

When compared to Alabama (where she received their automatic full-tuition scholarship), it would have cost more $$ for her to go to the local state U. I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that could be true. (assuming she lived on campus, or out-of-the-home, in both cases). INCLUDING travel costs to get her to Alabama and home again!

 

 

Yes.  The complexities of college financing are just :svengo: .  The things that you think will be cheaper (without even taking into account what you prefer) are often not.  We live in MD and my son will be going to school in CA, because it turns out to be much more affordable than his preferred school in VA, even with travel costs.  My nephew found out that it will be much cheaper for him to go to Brown than his local state U.  Who knew? 

 

Private schools are billed as more expensive, and often the sticker price is, but the institutional aid is also more robust.  There are no rules, as far as I can tell, to figuring out what will be cheaper, other than apply everywhere you think you might want to go, regardless of whether you think you can afford it, and see what you are offered.

[Matryoshka]

Yes.  The complexities of college financing are just :svengo: .  The things that you think will be cheaper (without even taking into account what you prefer) are often not.  We live in MD and my son will be going to school in CA, because it turns out to be much more affordable than his preferred school in VA, even with travel costs.  My nephew found out that it will be much cheaper for him to go to Brown than his local state U.  Who knew? 

 

Private schools are billed as more expensive, and often the sticker price is, but the institutional aid is also more robust.  There are no rules, as far as I can tell, to figuring out what will be cheaper, other than apply everywhere you think you might want to go, regardless of whether you think you can afford it, and see what you are offered.

 

I kept hearing that here, but the opposite happened to us.  All of the private schools, even with 'generous' merit aid, came in at EFC +$3k to EFC + $25K (not including standard loans she'd have to take).  The one school that was 'meet full need' decided somehow that we could afford more than double our FAFSA EFC.  Um, no!  I guess with the CSS Profile they can expect parents to mortgage their primary residence and raid their 401K, because you don't need a place to live or money to live on once your kids are done with school.  

 

The state flagship, it's true, gave no aid at all but did come in about the same as the 'cheapest' privates - but another state school did give good merit aid and came in under our EFC.  And no loans and virtually no travel costs (it's very close to us).

 

BTW, our dd had fantastic stats - 34 ACT and 3.98 GPA, and she was a girl going into Computer Science.  I did hope that would make at least one of those private schools 'want' her more and at least get them down to EFC + standard loans for her - but nope.

 

I think part of our problem was that we live in the Northeast and dd didn't want to go more than about 6 hours from home - it seems the schools in the Midwest and South are much more generous with aid.

[Tree Frog]

Yes.  The complexities of college financing are just :svengo: .  The things that you think will be cheaper (without even taking into account what you prefer) are often not.  We live in MD and my son will be going to school in CA, because it turns out to be much more affordable than his preferred school in VA, even with travel costs.  My nephew found out that it will be much cheaper for him to go to Brown than his local state U.  Who knew? 

 

Private schools are billed as more expensive, and often the sticker price is, but the institutional aid is also more robust.  There are no rules, as far as I can tell, to figuring out what will be cheaper, other than apply everywhere you think you might want to go, regardless of whether you think you can afford it, and see what you are offered.

 

This happened in dd's case. The aid received from the private university brought the cost of attendance down to the cost of the local flagship university with the minimal scholarships the flagship offered. It was an easy choice for her. She also requested additional aid (non loan) from the private school, which they gave her. At $1500/year for 4 years, it doesn't seem like much, but every bit helps. She has also received additional scholarships each year of attendance from her major department and grants the summer after her freshman year/during her sophomore year. I don't know if public universities offer additional scholarships each year for students.

[Carol in Cal.]

It's not necessarily that out of state schools are more generous with aid, but possibly that they give more aid to out of state students to diversify their student bodies.

 

[TammyS]

I kept hearing that here, but the opposite happened to us.  All of the private schools, even with 'generous' merit aid, came in at EFC +$3k to EFC + $25K (not including standard loans she'd have to take).  The one school that was 'meet full need' decided somehow that we could afford more than double our FAFSA EFC.  Um, no!  I guess with the CSS Profile they can expect parents to mortgage their primary residence and raid their 401K, because you don't need a place to live or money to live on once your kids are done with school.  

 

The state flagship, it's true, gave no aid at all but did come in about the same as the 'cheapest' privates - but another state school did give good merit aid and came in under our EFC.  And no loans and virtually no travel costs (it's very close to us).

 

BTW, our dd had fantastic stats - 34 ACT and 3.98 GPA, and she was a girl going into Computer Science.  I did hope that would make at least one of those private schools 'want' her more and at least get them down to EFC + standard loans for her - but nope.

 

I think part of our problem was that we live in the Northeast and dd didn't want to go more than about 6 hours from home - it seems the schools in the Midwest and South are much more generous with aid.

 

Like I said, no rules except apply everywhere you might want to go and see who makes the best offer.  My nephew lives in DE and is going to Brown - for free.  U of D didn't give him that offer. 

 

My son lives in MD and is going to CA.  One thing that drove the decision was that the school he wanted to  go to in VA (a no federal aid school) cost $10,500 for room and board, on top of tuition.  There was no way we could cover that, and we refuse to take out parent loans.  Even going to CA, it's turned out to be about $40K cheaper than VA.  My son also had excellent scores and APs, but that only goes so far with the private schools.  He could have gone to the local U for free (living at home), but he didn't like the school.

 

Refusing to travel definitely limits options. 

 

Also I think some schools are giving a bit more aid to boys right now, to try to balance their numbers.  There seems to be more girls going than boys.  Some schools my kids friends are at have like 60/40 girls/boys.

Edited May 29, 2016 by TammyS

[TammyS]

This happened in dd's case. The aid received from the private university brought the cost of attendance down to the cost of the local flagship university with the minimal scholarships the flagship offered. It was an easy choice for her. She also requested additional aid (non loan) from the private school, which they gave her. At $1500/year for 4 years, it doesn't seem like much, but every bit helps. She has also received additional scholarships each year of attendance from her major department and grants the summer after her freshman year/during her sophomore year. I don't know if public universities offer additional scholarships each year for students.

 

$1500/yr * 4 years = $6000.  If that is financed over 10 years at 3.25%, it's $7035.77

 

That is not a "little bit" of money.  That's a decent used car. Or 852 hours at minimum wage.