Explain to Me Being a Non-WOH No-Kid Wife

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm simply a little stunned about some of the things the husband is sharing with his coworkers. It's inappropriate and I don't understand why a person would be inclined to portray their spouse in such a light to his coworkers. It's not very professional for one, and it's no ones business what his wife is calling and saying to him. I don't care whether she stays home or not- but her spouse needs to learn some boundaries about what is appropriate fodder for coworkers and what is not. He will save himself some grief in the long run if he does.

 

I always hated working with guys who used to complain about their wives, and the ones who tried to do it in the martyr-ish way where they weren't really complaining (but they were) were the worst. They also seemed to be the guys setting up for affairs at work. Not saying that's what's necessarily happening here- but seriously. If he's talking about his wife that much at work he needs to find something else to talk about.

 

I agree.  I doubt my husband does anything like that, but he has mentioned stuff that other people say at work.  One guy in particular was constantly complaining about how crazy and mean his girlfriend is.  Then recently he announced they were getting married.  He makes her sound like the worst girlfriend in the world and now he is married to her.  I just don't know why he tells people this stuff.

[SKL]

May I briefly interrupt this interesting discussion to ask what "NT" stands for?

 

Neurotypical.

 

[CinV]

May I briefly interrupt this interesting discussion to ask what "NT" stands for?

 

NT = NeuroTypical (not NT = has some special needs)

[Shellydon]

I know lots of women, with degrees, that choose to stay home and be homemakers rather than work.  Some have kids in PS, some have no kids, and some have college/adult children.  In all cases, they have chosen to be homemakers.  All say their marriages and family relationships are strong because of it, and I definitely believe that.  All do a good bit of volunteer work.  Before most women worked, they ran our communities, kept family and community ties strong and kept their marriages pulled together.   Both spouses working full time isn't all it is cracked up to be. 

 

As for the complaining part, that  would be irritating.  My DH usually puts in 12 hour days then works more at home.  He is a Ph.D that works for a international company and those hours are necessary to get the work done.

[Jane Elliot]

Neurotypical.

 

 

 

NT = NeuroTypical (not NT = has some special needs)

 

Thank you! Carry on.

[TravelingChris]

I am not employed.  I am a retired homeschooling mom.  I have medical issues that preclude my employment.  And yes, because I worked too few years (and some in a non Social Security eligible job), I am not eligible for disability.  I am very grateful for dh working and he is grateful for me doing things to make our home life better.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It seems possible to me that some people like this arrangement.  If you grew up with a mom who stayed home you might find that arrangement normal and comfortable.  Now I know there is a difference between SAHW and a SAHM, but either of those often do things for the spouse that they'd have to do otherwise. 

 

I do most of the domestic tasks around here.  So my husband doesn't worry about having clean clothes for work, or lunch for work, or dinner when he comes home.  He doesn't look at the bills nor grocery shop.  If I were working outside the home, those things wouldn't be getting done all by me.  So what are the options?  There may be more money to go around (although at a certain point it isn't really money that is necessarily needed), but what he may notice most isn't the extra money, but the extra amount of work he now has to do.

 

Different strokes for different folks. 

[zoobie]

Also, I'd be wary of the guy. If he's unhappy with his marital arrangement, why isn't he doing something about it other than talking trash about her to coworkers? I've had personal experience in a few situations that would lead me to wonder whether he's telling the whole story. MIL was the SAHW, and she has BPD. FIL is a classic enabler with his own set of mental health issues. He gets off on the attention he receives from complaining about her and how bad he has it to others. Several former coworkers would complain about their wives in order to gain sympathy and make themselves feel better about their infidelity. (The female coworkers who were cheating with them didn't complain in public about their spouses in the same manner or were unmarried). One guy complained about his wife not working, never being home to make dinner or take care of the house, yet still demanding an accounting of his time. Later, when we got to know the wife, it turned out that she was traveling back and forth to her parents' home in another state and helping keep the family business afloat while her father was dying of cancer. Meanwhile he'd hooked up with a woman who bought his woe is me lines and wanted to "take care of him properly." Ugh.

[bolt.]

I (secretly) like it when DH's friend-coworkers complain about their wives or the difficulties of a two-income life... It reminds him how good he's got it.

Edited May 25, 2016 by bolt.

[Valley Girl]

I (secretly) like it when DH's friend-coworkers complain about their wives or the difficulties of a two-income life... It reminds him how good he's got it.

 

The only thing that's better is when HE comes home and says, "I'm glad you're not like that."

[SparklyUnicorn]

I (secretly) like it when DH's friend-coworkers complain about their wives or the difficulties of a two-income life... It reminds him how good he's got it.

 

I secretly liked hearing some of his coworkers talk about how awful daycare is (when at a company dinner).

 

I know, terrible of me.  LOL

[3 ladybugs]

I have only skimmed this thread but I was one of those wives for a while. I stopped working March 2005 and my oldest was born September of 2008. In that time I spent my time going to fertility doctor trying to get pregnant, cleaning the house and making meals. Honestly I was just as busy then as I am now, but I had different things I was doing. For most of that time we only had 1 car, so anytime I had to go out during the day, I had to take my DH to work and pick him up. We also had a triplet pregnancy in there where I was hospitalized for a month and our daughter (longest living triplet) was alive for 5 months 5 days. I don't regret a single second that I wasn't working during that time. I thank God for allowing me to have that flexibility so I could be with our children. 

 

Now that I am SAHM, my house is rarely clean. I need help to make meals. That is just what the kids take out of me. However I don't think I was less of a person because I didn't work. How insulting that anyone would even think that! We initially did it because we knew we wanted children, and when that happened I would stop working. When I married DH he was a Post Doc and when he got his "real job" I stopped because what I would make at my job would push us into a higher tax bracket making it so I would be working for the government more then anything else. Now that, I don't see the point of!

[AmandaVT]

Haven't read all the replies, but my good friend was a stay at home wife (and later mom) because her husband didn't want her to work. He was very controlling and emotionally abusive, but you'd never know it. I wasn't able to put everything together until after we had been friends for a couple of years. He was super mild mannered, seemed as nice as can be. But behind closed doors, he did everything in his power to keep her down. From small comments letting her know he thought she was worthless, to accusing her of picking up men at a diner instead of getting her hair cut. He discouraged her from working every way he could think of and I never knew until my friend and I were much closer and I saw some of it first hand. There's no way his coworkers or friends have any idea what a controlling jerk he is. My friend finally was able to divorce him, but her self esteem is still very damaged. 

[DawnM]

He needs to stop complaining about his wife to co-workers.

 

Honestly, I may not "get it" but for whatever reason, that is how they are doing things.

 

As for the moving to a nicer area, is it over their price range?  If so, then they need to sit down and discuss.  But ultimately, their circus, their monkeys.  

 

For the record, I used to judge SAHMs.  I thought that AT LEAST when they had kids school age, they SHOULD go back to work.

 

Then I became one.

Edited May 25, 2016 by DawnM

[sunflowerlady]

My husband and I were married for about ten years before we had our dd. Most of those years, I stayed home, There were a few times I had a part time job. 

 

Why did I stay home? DH and I were both content with me not being employed. We live in a rural area, so we had to consider an extra car for commuting, gas expense , extra car insurance, etc. 

 

As for what does it look like-well, I did all the things I do as a SAHM minus the kid. Housework, laundry, errands, shopping, meal prep and planning. Also, I cared for our pets. At the time, we had a dog that had ongoing health problems and I was taking her to the vet a few times a week before she died. If I had worked, it would have been even more stressful for us. My ability to take care of these domestic, family type things adds plenty of value to our lives.

 

I worked a part time job that I loved when I found out I was expecting. I quit that job a couple of months before she was born and have been at home since. She is now 17. I do work from home part time now and I really like doing that.   If I need to go back to work outside the home at some point, I will . 

 

Never once have I felt that I shouldn't go in the kitchen and get something to eat because I didn't bring home a paycheck.  :huh: My dh earns money that provides for "our" needs.  I cook the meals-does that count as working for the food.

 

In other words, he brings home the bacon, and I fry it up in the pan.  :cheers2:

[SproutMamaK]

So I don't really get the "having to nag" someone to work less. Why would anyone work more than they needed to?

 

Do you not see the irony in this question? You entire post is a rant about people who don't work when they don't need to.

Edited May 25, 2016 by SproutMamaK

[Pink and Green Mom]

I was a nonworking, non child having wife for 4 years before we had children (I was trying to conceive 1 of those years, going through multiple IVFs for 2 of those years, and waiting to adopt our children from overseas the final year).  And just to point out, I have pretty close to zero religious convictions at all so this isn't a religious issue.

 

I gave up a high paying attorney job in Washington, DC (high COL) where I was out-earning my DH at least 2:1.  I did not work, did not have children, and hell, I didn't even clean my own house as we had a cleaning service do that.

 

As you said in one of your posts,  yep, my DH was buying me my clothes, my lunch and my vacations.  But it was my $$$$$ salary that enabled us to have a huge down payment to be able to buy a great home in a great neighborhood before I stopped working. I never begrudged my husband that and he never begrudged my staying home. 

 

So yeah, I could have kept working I guess.  The stress level from my job was over the top and unhealthy.  I got absolutely zero satisfaction out of my job - personal, professional, or otherwise.  What would have been the point of my working?  So we could buy a 6000 SF house instead of a 4500 SF one?  So I could drive a Range Rover instead of a Ford Explorer?  So we could take 3 vacations a year instead of 1?  I was happier and healthier staying home.  We were able to do that on one salary.  What difference should that make to anyone except DH and I?

[katilac]

Re: Their business, yeah, and there are other details I have not shared because it should remain quite general here. The post is about "women" and not "this one particular family" for a reason. The situation drew my attention to a larger question. I'm not really that obsessed with their marriage on a personal level.

 

If you were interested in the larger question, not this particular marriage, then it was a mistake to use such an extreme example in your original post. You can't really say, "isn't this crazy, but I'm really asking about that" and get a focused thread. 

 

Just because one partner earns the money, doesn't negate the other partners input on any life decisions, or preclude them from having expectations of any kind.

 

 

 

Agree a billion times. 

[Bluegoat]

I might not work, if that were a possibility, even if I had no kids.  I have lots of other things I would do.  I would keep the house in better order, I might try my hand at some renos, I could really go to town on my garden.  I could do stuff in the community, help out my extended family.

 

Even if I wanted some income, I would probably try and avoid working full time.  I would have to let other things go that we think are important.

 

I assume that this women and her husband place some sort of value on her being home, on whatever she does there. If she is bored a lot, it may be that isn't totally working out for her, but isn't that often what happens.  Perhaps that is why she would prefer to move.

 

Whether or not that is worth changing his commute is really a negotiation.  she is at home all day, she ideally will be in a home and neighbourhood that makes her life happy most days.  Just like he is hopefully in a job that will make him happy, since he is there all day.  Commuting may or may not be that big a deal - it may be that he or she underestimate how big a deal it will be - he will be home even less.

 

But - lots of people do make errors like that when they try out new arrangements.  I really learned about the trade-offs of commuting by doing it.

 

As for this idea that she should not get a say because she is not contributing financially - if my dh ever said that to me I might consider leaving him.  I don't consider our marriage a partnership based on how much we respectively contribute financially, or even in other things that could be converted, like childcare.  I don't see this idea as different from the jerk husband who thinks he gets to make the decisions because he makes more, or the wife (or her parents) who doesn't respect her husband because he makes a lot less.  Putting extra financial pressure on him might be a problem and selfish, but not because she doesn't produce income.

[Guest]

I haven't read all the replies but I've skimmed them.

 

The DH in this situation is either a jerk who is over sharing or you are listening in on his calls. How do you know what the wife is calling him about (unless he is sharing private conversations)?? I text DH at 6 most nights and remind him to come home. I'm not nagging, I just know he doesn't keep track of time.

 

Tsuga, we all have different values. You believe capable adults need to work. Many disagree. It is just a difference in values. Simple as that.

[Bluegoat]

That's interesting. I've never met anyone who thought that about women without a religious basis. Does it have to be the woman, or do you think that one spouse should be home regardless of gender?

 

Different person obviously than the poster who said this, but I think that in a family, ideally one partner should be able to stay home or at least work minimally, and it has nothing really tightly connected to religious views.  I think that it provides a lot more value to the community as a whole, a lot of flexibility, a lot of value in terms of unpaid work that gets done, and community cohesion.  The domestic life - which means more than just the home, actually requires people to be invested in it, and everyone suffers when that doesn't happen.  People who really are living in their community, can see how it functions in detail over time, who notice changes, who are direcly affected when community life is compromised in some way.

 

It's a bit like when you see a poorer community, where people are around a lot, become gentrified and suddenly there are all kinds of people living in expensive places, with high-paying jobs - often two of them in a family.  They are probably very nice people, but they spend a long day at work, their house is empty in the day, they can afford to go elsewhere for entertainment and vacation.  They are just not eyes or feet on the sidewalk the same way.  It can really affect quality of life in the community.

[Kathryn]

Do you not see the irony in this question? You entire post is a rant about people who don't work even though they don't need to.

You win the thread!

[gardenmom5]

I can see that if "working class" means "full employment v. severe poverty" it makes sense for everyone who can earn an income to be making every effort to do so. Only lazy people don't work (as capable) when "not enough" is the reality of their family.

 

I don't get the hyper-individual view that the earnings of one spouse are earned 'by him' and 'given to' (or taken by) his spouse. It's really foreign to how I think about families. What comes in comes in for all of us... If it's too hard for one, it can be done by two. If it's no big deal for one, it's no big deal.

 

No exchange of goods-and-value takes place in healthy families. No one asks their beloved, "What exactly do you add to me?" -- as if one's contribution of 'goods' matters more than their love relationship, and therefore the correct reciprocal is that the beloved should provide identifiable 'services'. (Neither should people take advantage of another because they love each other, so, yes, this can get out of hand and cause resentment: but it isn't taking advantage in most cases of normal family resource pooling.)

 

On the other hand:

 

I'm offended by the idea that 'contributors should get their way' in marriage.

 

If a married couple can't make a fair, respectful, negotiated decision about where to live without resorting to, "My pay check, my call." -- type of thinking... Well, that marriage is deeply unhealthy. You seem to be implying that by not having a job, an unemployed spouse should be treated as an infirior partner when it comes to family decision making: her preferences of where she would like to live should matter less than her spouses? He should care less about pleasing her and more about pleasing himself? Because dollars? I'm truly glad they are not living that way.

  over

this.  my  grandmother was what the OP would call "working class".  she was deeply resentful over those with higher incomes.  she also equated a person's value with how much they earned.  my brother took it to heart.  he required his wife to work - they each had their "own" money.  (they had a very ugly divorce.)

dh and I both grew up with working mothers - and didn't want that for our children.  marriage is a partnership - both parties contributing to the good of the whole.  - whatever that means.

 

 

I'm simply a little stunned about some of the things the husband is sharing with his coworkers. It's inappropriate and I don't understand why a person would be inclined to portray their spouse in such a light to his coworkers. It's not very professional for one, and it's no ones business what his wife is calling and saying to him. 

I always hated working with guys who used to complain about their wives, and the ones who tried to do it in the martyr-ish way where they weren't really complaining (but they were) were the worst. 

 

dh's comment about men who trash talk their wives is they are really telling people how stupid THEY are.  after all, they are the ones who chose to marry these women whom they trash talk.

 

One of my friends recently talked about her FIL asking what she was going to do after her kids graduated because surely she wouldn't continue "not working" (homeschooling 3 kids, 1 not NT with a traveling spouse = not working :rofl: ). I thought she summed it up very well: she told him that she IS working and chose a job that requires 24/7 availability with the payoff of an early retirement age.

I thought I'd be retired by now - and doing whatever I wanted. but . . .  started over with a child who needed intense supervision/caregiving.  at least he is getting easier.   dh has said he couldn't pay someone to do what I do.

 

 

 

 

I know lots of women, with degrees, that choose to stay home and be homemakers rather than work.  Some have kids in PS, some have no kids, and some have college/adult children.  In all cases, they have chosen to be homemakers.  

I'm such a snob . . . . I want my grandchildren to have an educated mother.  ;p ;p 

[Bluegoat]

I love Wendell Berry the poet, but not Wendell Berry, master of anti feminist polemic. 

 

For starters, feminism is not a monolith. It's more accurate to speak of feminisms. And there are plenty of feminists who are not in bed with the neocapitalist agenda of consume! consume!

 

Berry should stick to poetry and farming. 

 

Berry was responding to people who said his relationship with his wife was oppressive, and that he was anti-feminist,  because he mentioned that he liked having her edit and type his work, and that was part of the reason he avoided working on a computer - it would interfere with a human interaction he valued.

 

That is pretty personal, and the argument they made was pretty offensive on a personal level.  I think it's also pretty clear that he was responding to a specific set of ideas about marriage as exemplified in those comments - he thinks they reflect a common view of marriage, which people tend to defend on feminist grounds, which is probably a fair assessment.  Whether they are feminist - I don't think so, I think they are consumerist, and that is in fact what Berry is saying.  But most people who make that argument - I think they actually do think it's a feminist rather than consumerist thing, the people that really benefit from that consumerism aren't really out to spill the beans.

[FaithManor]

Well, nobody really knows what goes on behind closed doors. You hear his side, but not hers.

 

To be honest, she could be depressed and needs some help. She could have serious social anxiety, something that he would not necessarily be willing to disclose to colleagues. He may be venting just to vent while the reality is that something more serious is going on at home.

 

I wouldn't get involved or give it much thought unless his venting and her nagging was affecting the job, and then I'd probably say something to management and let them sort it out.

 

I did have an acquaintance once that had a similar kind of situation from the outside looking in. It turned out that he was Kevin Kline of "Sleeping with the Enemy". If you've never seen that movie, it was one where the husbands was a horrid abuser who kept her at home, and beat her because the labels of the cans in the cupboards weren't perfectly centered and facing out, or the towels in the bathroom were not hanging perfectly level, or there was a water spot on the counter. So I wouldn't make any assumptions at all about her life. That acquaintance, her husband was her only contact with the outside world because he deliberately isolated her so she was pretty clingy of him despite that fact that he was an abuser. (He wasn't as bad as the movie, but on the other hand one day her dad and brother drove up, beat the snot out of him, and moved her back home, and he never filed a charge for the much deserved beating which tells me he was quite afraid of what an investigation would find.)

 

You just can't tell.

[ErinE]

I'm sorry if this particular wife is selfish, demanding, or whatever. It's possible that this particular wife (if she is a bit selfish) could take her hubby's preferences more seriously (being fair instead of being selfish) -- but, no, a lack of income does not mean that one should naturally embrace a lack of equal partnership.

This entire post was wonderful and liking it wasn't enough.

[MrsMommy]

If my husband's salary alone is enough that we can live comfortably, why should I *have* to work? If I go out and get a job, I'm taking that job away from someone in my community who might truly need it.

 

Besides, it's not like I'm sitting at home doing nothing all day. When I'm not teaching, I'm doing the things around here that he doesn't have time for, or doesn't really want to do. And even if I wasn't, if this was an arrangement that we came to together, why should anyone else care?

[goldberry]

I grew up with someone who wanted to be a SAHW whether there were children or not.  She found a husband who also wanted that.  I would be bored.  She enjoyed it.  Just because I would not enjoy it, doesn't mean others would not enjoy it.  I do agree that if you choose that you shouldn't complain constantly about it. (We all complain *occasionally* after all!)

 

I don't think it justifies a one sided relationship, I really liked the way Bolt explained it above, no healthy relationship is one-sided like that.  Usually it is a choice of both partners.

[ErinE]

It seems possible to me that some people like this arrangement.  If you grew up with a mom who stayed home you might find that arrangement normal and comfortable.  Now I know there is a difference between SAHW and a SAHM, but either of those often do things for the spouse that they'd have to do otherwise. 

 

I do most of the domestic tasks around here.  So my husband doesn't worry about having clean clothes for work, or lunch for work, or dinner when he comes home.  He doesn't look at the bills nor grocery shop.  If I were working outside the home, those things wouldn't be getting done all by me.  So what are the options?  There may be more money to go around (although at a certain point it isn't really money that is necessarily needed), but what he may notice most isn't the extra money, but the extra amount of work he now has to do.

 

Different strokes for different folks. 

 

I had a boyfriend who mentioned that when we married, I'd stay home with the kids. He talked about how lonely and quiet my house was without a parent home. I rolled my eyes. Whatever. I knew I would work in finance and my kids would go to childcare, just like I did. It worked for my parents, it would work for me. We broke up, and perhaps a little part of it was his views on spousal roles.

 

After the birth of my first child, I felt deeply compelled to be home with him. It's been the same for all my children. The difference was DH and I reached the decision together, and it was my choice to stay at home. DH actually expressed concern, given my pre-children drive, that I would be bored at home. Maybe I'll take a job in the future, but it won't be in a typical finance field. Like you mentioned, someone needs to do the little things, and it makes our lives less stressful when one spouse has the more flexible hours.

 

I've seen where the husband is more flexible when the wife has a demanding career as well as a similar dynamic in same-s*x relationships. Having two people on a career path, while feasible, may not be attractive once a certain income threshold is met.

[JonesinIndiana]

I get grief from my brother and SIL for working just 2 days a week while I homeschool my girls. Meanwhile that same SIL has never worked outside the home and their children are all adults and living on their own. I've never said anything about her not working outside the home but why do they feel the need to express their disapproval of my choices?

 

Regarding the original post: You never know what goes on behind closed doors. The arrangement works for that couple, although I wouldn't discuss my spouse with co-workers, I say don't judge them.

[vonfirmath]

I could just be a lifestyle they want to live.  

 

A stay at home wife, and a husband with a career.....sounds very 1950s idealistic to me.

The wife takes care of the home.

The husband pays the bills and comes home to a dinner on the table (one reason the wife may be upset at him being late), a clean home and a wife who isn't distracted by her own career.  Maybe he likes that she calls and wants him home.  Maybe he is a workaholic and she knows that he needs a reminder to clock out. 

 

Agreed. When we were newly weds, there was another couple in our class like that. He worked and she stayed home. They were trying to get pregnant, but had no kids yet. (Lots of difficulty). But it was both of their conviction that they wanted her to stay home even though she had a degree and was completely competent in her own right.  I don't think she was asking her husband to come home early or anything though.  Now, they have three kids and are building a new home together. She's still a stay at home wife.

[Zinnia]

My mom doesn't work.  She is in a second marriage (he's not our dad), and she stopped working about a year in?  It makes their life easier.  He has the freedom to just work and work as much as he wants.  He's a small business owner, loves to work a lot, and that works for them.  He doesn't do much beyond working.  She takes care of everything home and house and regular life related.  

 

She also volunteers several hours a week at their church, and it's much easier to do that not working.

 

I have several friends that don't work as empty nesters.  It's more unusual to do that before children (in fact, I don't know of any), but after raising kids, lots of times, couples have settled into a lifestyle that works best with one person at home.  And I can understand that.  For instance, I've already given up my career to allow my dh to pursue his at a higher level (he can go in early and stay late; he doesn't cover sick days or teacher work days or whatever, which his company sees as valuable and rewardable).  When my last baby leaves the nest, I'm not sure that I'll be willing to trade our relaxed, easy lifestyle for the low wages that I'll be able to earn after 30 years out of the workforce.  My nice lifestyle might be worth that cost.  

[gardenmom5]

I get grief from my brother and SIL for working just 2 days a week while I homeschool my girls. Meanwhile that same SIL has never worked outside the home and their children are all adults and living on their own. I've never said anything about her not working outside the home but why do they feel the need to express their disapproval of my choices?

 

Regarding the original post: You never know what goes on behind closed doors. The arrangement works for that couple, although I wouldn't discuss my spouse with co-workers, I say don't judge them.

 

could it be just seeing you - is holding a mirror up to them and they're wondering about their chioces?

 

ime: people who are overly focused on what someone else is doing (barring abuse, etc.), has too much free time or lacking confidence in their own choices.

[Murphy101]

Your basic premise is that they are individuals, rather than a united unit.

You phrase everything as though your co-worker's wife has to earn her place in his life and earn whatever he benevolently decides to let her have in their life together.

 

To me, that entire concept is alien to our marriage.

 

By virtue of being his wife, I have claim on his person and what we acquire.

Same goes for him towards me of course.

That's the nature of becoming one in marriage.

I presume he is happy enough with his marriage and I'd hope if he isn't, he doesn't share it at work. So whether you or anyone else deems that she is earning her keep or working to be of worth doesn't matter and isn't relevant.

 

I have no idea what's going on with your co-worker's marriage and I'd bet donuts you don't either no matter what is being said or not said.

 

As for calling him at work, personally I don't do that much. He is a grown man, if he doesn't like it or thinks it makes him look bad, then he should say so. To her. Same goes for the housing or saying his wife is bored and needs him to come home and entertain her. He is a grown man, so either he is thoroughly and happily content with things or it's not quite like you make it sound. It makes him look worse than his wife, to me anyways, but mostly I think this sounds like a bunch of sour grapes and cattiness from the women in the office.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Murphy101

[Maela]

I haven't read the whole thread, just the first few replies.

 

I'll be honest.  I would love to still be jobless after my kids no longer need me.  I wouldn't be calling my husband at work hoping to make him come home though.  I would keep myself busy with volunteering, cleaning, organizing, cooking, making homemade gifts, gardening, photography, reading, visiting/helping my parents in their old age, helping others with their kids (occasional babysitting), etc.  I feel like I could help a lot of people and take care of all the home stuff (car appointments/plumber appointments, etc.) while Dh is at work, and then we could both have completely free time when he's not.  

 

If one partner is working that hard at home while the other partner makes the money, what could be wrong with that?  You'd still be contributing to the partnership.  Just not monetarily.

 

I don't feel this way because of religion - I'm an atheist.

[vonfirmath]

 

Furthermore, I've been lucky to witness several older ladies who no longer have children at home and have chosen not to return to work- they do so much for the community around them and I think it's a beautiful thing- they volunteer in numerous ways and the support they've given has been invaluable.    Choosing not to return to the work force has enabled them to help others in a way they wouldn't be able to do if they were still working.    

 

Agreed. Schools and other organizations NOW either pay people for services that used to be volunteer when there was a larger base of stay at home parents.  OR go without (at our school, it is often go without). Society definitely benefited when more had the time and energy to volunteer.

[HS Mom in NC]

If you're having a hard time with a couple where one chooses to support the other who isn't working for whatever reason,  just remember there are plenty of people out there looking for work because they don't have a partner, their partner isn't making enough to support them, or they just aren't the at home type, but jobs are harder to come by these days.  She's not taking up one of those jobs which is a win for who ever has it. 

 

Yeah, it's weird to nag the working partner no matter what the situation is. Long commutes aren't a lifestyle my husband and I would be interested in-he's worked from home for 20 years now.

 

Don't assume you know why she isn't working.  As stated various ways already, there are all kinds of reasons someone could choose not to be employed when they're childless.  I quit working when I was newly pregnant with my first baby. We lost that baby and two others in the first two years we were married. (We started trying right away.)   Good thing I wasn't working because I was hospitalized for blood loss the first one and emotionally up and down with each due to the severe hormone shifts with all of them.  It was just fine that my employer found someone else who wasn't in that situation.

Close friends and family were aware of pregnancy losses but it wasn't something we discussed with the rest of the world, so most people didn't know.  My life is not the Phil Donahue show or for younger posters, a reality TV show.

It took us 12 years to get 3 kids.

When I'm done homeschooling #3 (about 6 more years) I plan to still be home full time running our self-sustaining farm that we hope to buy in the next few years while my husband continues to work from home writing computer software and consulting.

[mathnerd]

The situations are different between being poor and HAVING to work to make a living and being middle class and NOT HAVING to work to make ends meet. If you are poor and looking for a government hand out and not working and are healthy, then that is not OK - you are being a burden on society. If you are middle class or above and not bothering society, then it is OK to choose your lifestyle.

 

Because healthy adults are supposed to earn those things.

 

Growing up poor I heard it again and again, poor people deserve it because they DON'T WORK. Lazy. Shiftless. Useless. You don't work, you don't deserve to eat. Why do you think you deserve health care? Why do you think you deserve food? Why do you think you deserve an education? You're supposed to WORK for that. Poor people are so entitled. They think they can just have those things for free. Lazy. Lazy. Lazy. It's drilled into you. I grew up under Reagan. No free lunch. The guilt of being poor, the guilt of knowing how lazy we were. See the nice cars? He built that. He worked. See your car? You must not have worked. What I understood was that our misfortune, crappy schools, were a result of being lazy and making mistakes. Maybe a bit of bad luck but ultimately, poor habits. Not working.

 

Surely those habits are not good habits just because you're a married woman?

 

Surely the rule applies to everyone, work for rewards? No work, no food?

 

Or is that not a rule, that's just an excuse to blame poor people for their misfortune? And actually it is okay to get free stuff, so long as you aren't suffering?

 

Reframe your questions like this:

Surely, this is America and a married woman can choose how she spends her time as long as she is not a burden to society? 

Surely, your coworker makes enough money for their household that the "no work, no food" rule does not apply to his wife?

Surely, the employer covers the insurance part for the coworker's family?

Surely, the coworker is capable of telling his wife to stop calling him at work if he desires not to be disturbed at work? (he does not, so it seems that he does not mind)

It seems like we are infringing on this coworker's wife's personal rights when we discuss her right to stay at home.

Why do you assume that the only way to measure a healthy adult's worth is by whether they are working in an office cubicle?

What I am saying is that there is no rule on how to live, we all make our choices and face the consequences. The coworker should not be complaining and gossiping about his wife. Your coworker is being unprofessional.

Edited May 25, 2016 by mathnerd

[gypsymama]

There are many reasons that people choose not to work. There are also many reasons that this couple or others like them might have that setup.

 

• There may be a mental illness or other disability involved. Just because you aren't privy to that information doesn't mean a condition doesn't exist. 
• The dh may be a control freak and you don't know it much like the Sleeping with the Enemy mention above. My ex-fiancee is like that. He expected me to stop working the moment we got engaged and was highly pissed and insulted that I didn't. He also expected me to be available at his every whim. If he got off work at 5pm I was expected to call him AT 5pm. Perhaps this guy is putting up a front but really the wife his only doing what he's demanding from her. You don't know what goes on at home. That perfectly nice co-worker may beat his wife if she leaves the home or "ignores" him by NOT calling him every day.
• He could be exaggerating or making up these stories to make her look bad so he can be pitied. He may want her at home not working so she isn't in public to find out about his affairs and the complaining about her gains him sympathy to get another woman. 
• Maybe he's a "men work, women stay home" 1950s idealist that feels it's her JOB to be at home tending to his every whim. Maybe he feels like less of a man if she works to "support him."
• He could enjoy having someone home taking care of all the details for him. My husband does. Although we do have kids he likes that I'm home anyways to take care of everything. He can work and not worry about the life details... schedules, dr appts, taxes, bills, budgeting, running errands, dealing with service providers. His laundry is done for him as are cleaning and meals. If I worked he'd have to help with those things. For him (and probably a lot of men) it's nicer to have the wife home taking care of these things so they can "only" work then it is to have more money but have to do part of the housekeeping/cooking/etc.
• Perhaps the additional income would put them in a new tax bracket that wouldn't be financially beneficial.
• They could be trying to have children and devoting time to that.
• She could have health issues that make it inconvenient to work. Like the PMD mention... if you have put you out of work level issues with every period it'd be easier to stay home than to need a week off every month. I know people with conditions that require appts multiple times a month. It may not make sense for her to work b/c of the amt of time needed off.

 

Outside of the individual relationship dynamics I agree with other posters that having one partner from each relationship home could be beneficial to the community and society as a whole for a # of reasons.

• At home partners could contribute to charity work in a more dedicated fashion.
• If you don't NEED the money then staying home allows that job to stay open for someone who DOES need it. 
• People are in too big of a rush now days b/c we can't fit everything we need to do into one day. Having an at home partner handling daily needs other than the job means that partner can take their time completing errands and the working partner can take their time in their commute = safer road/driving conditions for all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gypsymama]

Do you not see the irony in this question? You entire post is a rant about people who don't work when they don't need to.

 

A million times this!!!

 

 

LOTS of people work more than they have to. Workaholics are a real thing even if you've never met one or THINK you've never met one.

 

My dh is a workaholic. He judges a lot based on his productivity and how "good" he is at his job. That said I have to remind him at times not to over do it. This is especially true since he works a physical job and has health issues if he overdoes it. He's the guy that will go in earlier and stay later than everyone else. He volunteers for every OT, every night pour, every Sat contract. If they say you "can" call in the morning to see what's going on for the day he won't. He'll just go in anyways because "there'll be something I can do." That's his personality. He's much better about this past year and finally valuing time at home more but he still struggles with this.

 

There are quite a few times that I call him towards the end of the day to see if he's headed home yet. It isn't "nagging." I'm reminding him not to over do it or seeing how his day is progressing. I also like to have dinner just finished or close to it if possible when he arrives so since he doesn't have set hours I frequently call b/c I need to know when to start dinner. (This is especially true on nights I make something like stir fry that only takes 30 min. I can be done if I start when he leaves so I'll call or text to see when that is going to be instead of just cooking whenever and then having to reheat his food.)

[Guest]

It is strange that you think you know what this woman does all day. My neighbors (women who work) assume I sit home all day. They have no idea how many pots I have my fingers in!! I'm out more than home. Who knows how this woman spends her time?

[OneStepAtATime]

So let me try to understand this thread...

 

1.  Marriage is basically a business relationship, not a personal partnership, and only someone earning actual money has real value.  Both need to contribute financially for the scales of this business partnership to be balanced.

2.  If both spouses aren't earning an income then the spouse that is at home not bringing in money is a freeloader who doesn't really deserve to eat/have a roof over their heads unless the spouse earning the income is willing to gift them the food/roof over their heads.

3.  The spouse that does not bring in money is frequently doing the lion's share of the housework/yard work/handling the personal finances/running the errands/cooking the meals (maybe even taking care of elderly parents), etc., even if there are no children.  Since they aren't getting paid from an outside source, none of that should be considered work or a valuable contribution even though if they had to have someone else do those things they would be paying them to do it and THEN it would be considered a job.

4.  You are trying to understand why anyone would choose to stay home and be the spouse that does not earn an income if they do not have children because to be of value and deserve to eat food/have a roof over your head you must work in a job that brings in money, even if your spouse earns enough money for you both to eat/have a roof over your head, regardless of how much you are doing behind the scenes to support yourself and your spouse in ways that do not directly earn money.

 

Is that fairly accurate or am I way off base?

Edited May 25, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[gypsymama]

Well of course he could never â€‹require you to have employment. You are your own person.

 

So please let me ask, since you did answer the thread and you are in this position, I will ask bluntly:

 

What do you do to earn food and lodging? How do those become dissociated from work? Again, I don't mean in the context of raising kids.

 

 

I mean, you have to work to get unemployment, to get disability insurance, to get food stamps, even. You can't even get food stamps without working at least part time.

 

So what is the relationship, the give and take, in which he gives you food, lodging, insurance, in return for... what? What is your end of it?

 

This is an incredibly damaging outlook on life. First of all you DON'T have to work to get the government assistance that you mentioned in many states. Situations vary. Honestly if the outlook is that people must DO something to "earn" their keep why even bother keeping the disabled alive? Do they get a pass by default because of the disability? By this line of thinking it seems it'd be more beneficial to take a population control stance and put down any disabled person like an animal. No worries then about feeding someone who isn't "earning their keep." 

 

The give and take of a relationship is the relationship itself. The value of being in the relationship is because you love the person and they love you. It isn't counted by what you give someone monetarily or "earn." If it is then you don't have a relationship or marriage, you have a business agreement. That may work for you but some of us value personal relationships more than money. 

[Murphy101]

The concept that the wife is somehow earning her keep in bed is...

 

Lol

 

If that man truely views his wife as some trophy that is earned with sex, then frankly I think worse of him than her and he has exactly the marriage he wants and deserves and his wife is not being paid nearly enough.

[Guest]

The concept that the wife is somehow earning her keep in bed is...

 

Lol

 

If that man truely views his wife as some trophy that is earned with sex, then frankly I think worse of him than her and he has exactly the marriage he wants and deserves and his wife is not being paid nearly enough.

I know, right? I only imply that with complete hilarity because it is absurd on its face and yet comments to that effect have been leveled at *us*, even after people have seen we have a basketball team of small children and multiple businesses to manage.

 

It's just silly.

[AK_Mom4]

I hate knowing "too much" about other people's personal lives - either my coworkers or employees.  One of my employees whose personal life was interfering with their job performance?  We would have discussions about that. 

 

On the other view - if I was a SAHW with no kids, I would be fine with that.  Marriage is a partnership here at our house and I don't have to "pay my way" in any form.  We share the work and the income.  For many years, I made more income than DH - does that mean he wasn't "pulling his weight" in the marriage?  

 

Sheesh.  Seems like another way to bash each other.  Their relationship - their business.

[Sun]

And yet she calls him and complains that it takes him too long to get home. There's no baby at home so... she's just bored. He said so. "She wants me to come home because she gets bored." Because you know, she doesn't work. I could see how you'd get antsy. What the hell do you do all day?

...

 

And on top of it, she has recently demanded that he relocate to a neighborhood she likes more. Which is expensive.

 

So he's telling us about these places they are moving. For her. Because she "can't live in this area". It's too boring for her. He did not frame his move in this way, by the way. I know his wife doesn't work from an unrelated conversation, and he brought up his move in a more general conversation about real estate because it's Seattle so everyone between 25 and 40 has nothing to talk about other than real estate and traffic. Anyway. Just to say, he did not frame his real estate questions as a wife complaint and I'm not sure he even realizes that there are like 10 working women in the office just going "wow".

 

 

First, do you really know that she's complaining? Or is that just your interpretation? Could she possibly be just checking what his timing will be? I say this as a SAHM who doesn't have multiple children. I often call around 4 or 5 to check when he thinks he'll be heading out. Unless he puts her on speaker phone, you have no way of knowing what she's actually saying, and you have no way of knowing the backstory on it.

 

Second, how do you know that she's "demanding" the move? You don't. Even if he's said that, you still don't know whether that's just how he's presenting it at work.

 

As for why she doesn't work, it really sounds like this may be more your issue than hers. Why do you care so much? It sounds like you resent her for not having to work, and this is negatively coloring your impression of her. For all you know, she has a chronic illness that makes regular work hard. Many, many people who don't work full-time have invisible illnesses that others don't know about. Maybe she's depressed. Maybe she's a lazy gold digger. Does it really matter?

 

[Pawz4me]

In re-reading the original post, I'm wondering why Tsuga assumes her co-worker is supporting his wife.

 

Is it not possible the wife has her own sources of income?  Perhaps she has a trust fund from which she draws a handsome monthly/yearly sum.  Or perhaps she inherited lots of money and property outright and spends her time investing and managing it.

 

I think one of Tsuga's posts said that she comes from a 'very, very working class background" (or something very close to that quote) and I'm guessing that's maybe why the possibility of the wife having income/assets w/o having to work didn't occur to her..  I'm also guessing that background is where a LOT of the disconnect in this issue is coming from.  The poorer people I know/have known do tend to have much more of a "work or you don't eat" attitude (and understandably so) than do those who have some extra funds.

[JulieA97]

There is just no way for you to know the exact particulars of their situation.  There may be 1,000 reasons when she is a SAHW and those reasons don't matter to anyone but the actual couple.  If it works for them, its no ones business why they do it that way.  I believe you said he was happy with the arrangement?

 

I was a SAHW for a while before I got preg with ds.  Those times were anything but relaxing and involved many many Dr appointments to the fertility specialist, blood draws, painful shots and a lot of stress.  I had a miscarriage during that time as well.  This is not something my husband talked about at work.  After I got pg with him, there were still lots of appointments, ultrasounds, shots and crazy anxiety.  We lost his twin.  I spent the first trimester on the couch praying I would not lose him as well.  I went back to work at another company part time in the 2nd trimester.  I work from home now part time.  I do not intend to go back to full time even after he is out of the house.

 

She may be going through infertility and is not working due to the stress, she may have elderly relatives she helps, she may find lots of fulfillment in volunteering, the job field she trained for may involve long hours and lots of travel and prefers to spend that time with her husband, they may both find it works for their family better for her to be at home to take care of the house, run errands, take care of all the little details so he doesn't have to, there is any number of reasons.  If it works for them, that is all that matters. 

 

The belief that because she doesn't have kids and doesn't work outside of the house means he is only giving her food and shelter out of the kindness of his heart is disturbing.  And if that meant I didn't get a say in where we lived?  If my husband said anything like that to me, well, we would have words. 

 

You have one belief system.  They have others.  Neither is better or worse than the other if it works for your family.  I heard someone say recently that it was awful that a mutual acquaintance of ours doesn't work and has a housekeeper.  Well, this friend that doesn't work is on the board of several charities, helps her husband run their very successful business, is always there to help out a friend (took a friend to all her chemo treatments and stayed with her the entire time), and helps care for her elderly mother.  She uses her time in those ways while providing a job for someone else and paying them well to clean her house on a weekly basis.  Should her housekeeper lose her job and income because some in society look down on her and don't see all that she does behind closed doors?  Of course not. 

[QueenCat]

She sounds obnoxious with the nagging. Maybe she's lazy and self-serving and a truly awful person. Then again, she might have an illness and be isolated and lonely. Or, he's full of it.

 

I've seen all three IRL. You never know.

 

I was wondering about the he's full of it part.............. sometimes people vent just because they're looking for things to say in idle conversation.... for all anyone knows, she really only complains once in a while, and it's during the heat of the moment..... I may never go back to work for money even though I have a degree (or maybe I will).... and I might occasionally nag my dh to get home sooner 'cause I want to do something with him.... I hope that if he's says "gotta get home, the wife is calling" that his co-workers don't view me as a lazy nag who should be doing something differently than he's doing.