Crying it Out / Sleep Training - news story

[SKL]

Did anyone see the story re research on babies with sleeping difficulties, showing babies who were given "sleep training" have less stress hormones than those who were not?  What do you think?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yes

 

I'd like to strangle the jerks who preached otherwise. 

 

 

[Scarlett]

What? I don't understand..

[SparklyUnicorn]

When I was waiting in the OBGYN office today they had videos about this or that.  One was some guy going on and on about swaddling and how it's so important psychologically and the baby cries less.  And I guess he wrote a book about this shi*.  I thought..OH FREAKING BROTHER.

[Corraleno]

I think there were significant methodological issues, e.g.:

"Beyond its small size, limitations of the study include the option for parents to switch from one sleep approach and a high proportion of participants who didn’t complete the study..."

 

So parents of extra fussy/anxious babies and those with more serious sleep issues could switch to the nonintervention group, or just drop out of the study, leaving only the babies who were not terribly distressed by it. 

 

The full study is behind a paywall so it's not clear how many actually completed the study, but if they only started with 43 babies and "a high proportion" of those dropped out, then the study may not prove anything other than "babies with mild sleep issues who are not terribly distressed by being allowed to cry for a bit, are not negatively affected by being allowed to cry it out for a bit."

[Corraleno]

When I was waiting in the OBGYN office today they had videos about this or that.  One was some guy going on and on about swaddling and how it's so important psychologically and the baby cries less.  And I guess he wrote a book about this shi*.  I thought..OH FREAKING BROTHER.

 

(1) Swaddling does calm some babies down quite a bit, because it mimics the feeling of containment in the womb. It made a HUGE difference to my son when he was a newborn.

 

(2) Swaddling has absolutely nothing to do with the study that SKL is referring to, which is about letting babies cry it out, or putting them to bed later and later in order to get them to go to sleep faster.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Corraleno

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think there were significant methodological issues, e.g.:

 

"Beyond its small size, limitations of the study include the option for parents to switch from one sleep approach and a high proportion of participants who didn’t complete the study..."

 

So parents of extra fussy/anxious babies and those with more serious sleep issues could switch to the nonintervention group, or just drop out of the study, leaving only the babies who were not terribly distressed by it. 

 

The full study is behind a paywall so it's not clear how many actually completed the study, but if they only started with 43 babies and "a high proportion" of those dropped out, then the study may not prove anything other than "babies with mild sleep issues who are not terribly distressed by being allowed to cry for a bit, are not negatively affected by being allowed to cry it out for a bit."

 

Oh yeah I'm not impressed by the study exactly.

 

I just don't believe that sleep training is harmful.  Lack of sleep is harmful.  Harmful for the kid AND the parent.

[SparklyUnicorn]

(1) Swaddling does calm some babies down quite a bit, because it mimics the feeling of containment in the womb. It made a HUGE difference to my son when he was a newborn.

 

(2) Swaddling has absolutely nothing to do with the study that SKL is referring to, which is about letting babies cry it out, or putting them to bed later and later in order to get them to go to sleep faster.

 

Yeah if you have a baby with super bad colic...trust me these suggestions only make you want to choke someone.

I totally realize they are not connected.  It just goes with the overall theme of expecting mothers to be superhuman robots.

Edited May 24, 2016 by SparklyUnicorn

[Guest]

Here's the smegging link.

[Guest]

Yeah if you have a baby with super bad colic...trust me these suggestions only make you want to choke someone.

I totally realize they are not connected.  It just goes with the overall theme of expecting mothers to be superhuman robots.

 

From the study linked above:

 

serious consequences have been reported for families who have an infant with a sleep problem. Mothers of infants with a sleep problem are more likely to use physical punishment,^11,12 and are at an increased risk of developing depression (eg, >2.0 odds ratio).^{9,13–15} Also worth noting is that mothers with emotional disturbances (ie, stress, depression) are more likely to report intrusive thoughts of harming their infant,^16,17 and some even commit filicide.^18–20 Thus, evidenced-based treatments that rapidly resolve infants’ sleeplessness while minimizing family distress are vital.

 

[Guest]

The study was only for babies that already have sleep problems. It doesn't mean (even if there were no issues with the study--which, there are for sure) that it's a "best practice" for the majority of babies.

 

And in any case I have RARELY met anyone who took real issue with letting babies cry for a few minutes--as the study names graduated extinction.

 

In practice, ime, when people say "cry it out," they are talking about leaving a baby to freak out, terrified, for as long as it takes.

 

In short: shenanigans.

[Guest]

When I was waiting in the OBGYN office today they had videos about this or that. One was some guy going on and on about swaddling and how it's so important psychologically and the baby cries less. And I guess he wrote a book about this shi*. I thought..OH FREAKING BROTHER.

Um... swaddling works beautifully and helps many, many infants sleep better. We swaddle until they're crawling out of it. What the heck does that have to do with sleep training? A whole lot of parents who lightly sleep train/routine or are straight up AP still swaddle their babies. Mine have all cried less and slept more soundly that way.

[Guest]

See, for example, this is what the NYT said about the study, in part:

 

But not-so-subtly, there’s a sense on one side that parents feel pressured and guilted into leaving their tiny babies to cry and cry at night, and on the other, that parents feel pressured and guilted into not letting their children cry for even a moment.

 

 

Yeah, OK...but that's NOT what the study studied. No one left a baby to "cry and cry."

[Guest]

Sparkly is just saying that ppl make blanket (getit?) statements about crying babies and when you have THAT baby that just won't shut up ever, for love nor country, all you can do is roll your eyes all the way up into the back of your head. Because babies are individuals, like all human beans.

 

 

I had one of those babies too.

 

IOW, as a complete aside to studies, people's whack unwanted advice is often a lot more useless than they think it is.

[momacacia]

Then I had the nurse practitioner, or LC or something (Idk what she was), freak out because I swaddled my baby. She got emotionally involved she couldn't even listen to the fact that I let them lap their hands up so that (please God) they could learn to suck their thumbs and didn't swaddle so tightly that it would cause hip problems. I was there for a tongue tie, not overall babycare advice. She lost lots of respect points there.

[MotherGoose]

My third child loves loves loves being swaddled. He could be fussing and fussing and I'd swaddle him, stick in th paci, and he's out. Even now, at 7 months, when he's too big to be swaddled, I can put him in the baby wrap on me, put in the paci, and he's gone quickly when he's tired. I know it's not a magic fix for every baby, but I do wish more parents of fussy babies would give it a serious try. Flailing little arms and legs upset babies, in my experience. It's also normal for them to fight the swaddle for a bit, but then you can just see them give it up and go to sleep. . (The older two loved it too but I wasn't as good at swaddling then as I am now ;) I certainly don't swaddle or confine when they are awake and happy.

[Guest]

Parents of colic babies have tried literally everything, ime. Very, very seriously tried all of the things!!!!

[SparklyUnicorn]

Um... swaddling works beautifully and helps many, many infants sleep better. We swaddle until they're crawling out of it. What the heck does that have to do with sleep training? A whole lot of parents who lightly sleep train/routine or are straight up AP still swaddle their babies. Mine have all cried less and slept more soundly that way.

 

Yeah just ignore me.  I'm bitter.  LOL

[MotherGoose]

Parents of colic babies have tried literally everything, ime. Very, very seriously tried all of the things!!!!

I believe you, like I said I know it doesn't work for every baby. I'm not accusing anyone of anything and I never had a colicky baby, thank God. I have talked to parents who say their babies don't sleep well and hate the swaddle, but in discussing it with them they haven't really consistently tried. That's all I was trying to say. Not attacking anyone. Just, try it, and make sure you can swaddle without letting any flailing limbs escape. That one pesky little hand that gets loose and slaps the face of a 6 week old will foil you every time.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Parents of colic babies have tried literally everything, ime. Very, very seriously tried all of the things!!!!

 

Yes they have.

 

Swaddle your baby.  My baby screamed more.  Carry your baby in a sling or carrier....he screamed more.  Hold your baby and sooth when crying.  He cried more.  Rock baby...screamed...cried.  Try different formula...didn't work.  Bring to doctor...100 times...did nothing.  Don't let your baby cry...if your baby cries he'll be emotionally messed up...great...no matter what I do my baby screams and cries for hours on end...I'm a terrible terrible parent.  I haven't slept in days, I'm worried I'm ruining my baby, he cries, I must be a terrible parent.

 

Parents of colic babies need a whole other set of advice.

Edited May 24, 2016 by SparklyUnicorn

[SparklyUnicorn]

I believe you, like I said I know it doesn't work for every baby. I'm not accusing anyone of anything and I never had a colicky baby, thank God. I have talked to parents who say their babies don't sleep well and hate the swaddle, but in discussing it with them they haven't really consistently tried. That's all I was trying to say. Not attacking anyone. Just, try it, and make sure you can swaddle without letting any flailing limbs escape. That one pesky little hand that gets loose and slaps the face of a 6 week old will foil you every time.

 

Then again the time frame where swaddling is used and works is very very short. 

[Farrar]

When we were desperate because our kids, at a year old, had still never slept a bit, we tried some sleep training. It was just unrelenting. They never stopped screaming. They were too old to be swaddled by then. It was weeks of madness. I'm sorry we ever tried it. I mean, at the time, I think we did the best we could - I've since met many parents with kids who did respond to sleep training - they cried a bunch at first but then they gradually cried less and slept more, which I genuinely believe would have been good for my kids if we could have made it work. But they were perfectly willing to scream all night if necessary and did. And there was no appreciable change from night to night.

 

Sigh. Whatever works when it comes to sleep. That's my philosophy.

[Spryte]

Yes they have.

 

Swaddle your baby. My baby screamed more. Carry your baby in a sling or carrier....he screamed more. Hold your baby and sooth when crying. He cried more. Rock baby...screamed...cried. Try different formula...didn't work. Bring to doctor...100 times...did nothing. Don't let your baby cry...if your baby cries he'll be emotionally messed up...great...no matter what I do my baby screams and cries for hours on end...I'm a terrible terrible parent. I haven't slept in days, I'm worried I'm ruining my baby, he cries, I must be a terrible parent.

 

Parents of colic babies need a whole other set of advice.

Sparkly, you and I have the same brand of PTSD.

 

And I'm not trying to trivialize PTSD.

 

It took me seven years to consider another baby. I could not understand how parents did it more than once. We tried everything. Everything. And there were the doc visits, oh my, and the baby gastroenterologist, and the tests for GERD (check) and even sleep studies. Oh my. The agony. The special, super expensive formula (because breast feeding was out, no need for judgment here - adoption and other health issues on my part at play). My 12 yr old still has sleep issues. :( Colic is a different beast. I truly think there's PTSD from that type of experience.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Spryte

[MotherGoose]

Then again the time frame where swaddling is used and works is very very short.

I stretched it to 4 months or perhaps a little later with my last one, through sheer determination, Velcro wraps, and a blanket pulled tight across the flailing little body who looked like a squirming beetle larvae 😠Till I pinned him down. My babies were all generally pretty content anyway with nothing like colic. Seriously. But I think swaddling made my generally content babies even more content and great sleepers. Nearly every time they awakened early from a nap that pesky little hand had escaped to cause havoc. I figured, I wouldn't like it if my hand slapped me in the night without me realizing I had control over it, and neither would my baby. Colic is another matter entirely.

[Scarlett]

I am still confused about what th study is claiming......but Sparkly I get your point. My friend had a colic baby and I swear I would have lost. My. Mind. Nothing stopped him from crying....so if my friend laid him down and walked out on her front porch for a few minutes...she gets no judgement from me.

 

I sleep trained my 9 month old who decided he needed to suddenly start waking up every single hour....latch on for 10'seconds and go back to sleep. Wow. After weeks of that I was a zombie. It took three nights of graduated, letting him cry but soothing him with my voice from his door way,,,,,eventually he plopped back down and went to sleep. After that he was back to ought the night.

[Guest]

I stretched it to 4 months or perhaps a little later with my last one, through sheer determination, Velcro wraps, and a blanket pulled tight across the flailing little body who looked like a squirming beetle larvae 😠Till I pinned him down. My babies were all generally pretty content anyway with nothing like colic. Seriously. But I think swaddling made my generally content babies even more content and great sleepers. Nearly every time they awakened early from a nap that pesky little hand had escaped to cause havoc. I figured, I wouldn't like it if my hand slapped me in the night without me realizing I had control over it, and neither would my baby. Colic is another matter entirely.

We swaddle with an actual bed sheet. I think several of our kids were closer to nine or ten months and were still happily swaddled. They might get an arm out but trying to sleep without it was murder.

 

My favorite baby trick is when the kid is screaming unrelentingly and is dry and fed? I pop in some loud music on my headphones and read a book on my phone while I sit there rocking/patting/putting the pacifier back in/whatever. My stress level used to go through the roof until I realized that just because they were PO'd didn't mean I had to punish myself by listening to it. I could parent much happier when I had some distraction from the madness.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[SparklyUnicorn]

When we were desperate because our kids, at a year old, had still never slept a bit, we tried some sleep training. It was just unrelenting. They never stopped screaming. They were too old to be swaddled by then. It was weeks of madness. I'm sorry we ever tried it. I mean, at the time, I think we did the best we could - I've since met many parents with kids who did respond to sleep training - they cried a bunch at first but then they gradually cried less and slept more, which I genuinely believe would have been good for my kids if we could have made it work. But they were perfectly willing to scream all night if necessary and did. And there was no appreciable change from night to night.

 

Sigh. Whatever works when it comes to sleep. That's my philosophy.

 

Absolutely. And parents, especially first time parents, take this advice to heart.  They are so afraid to screw things up.  They think any time they blink the wrong way at their baby the baby is going to be messed up.  I had a friend who went so overboard about the "no crying" thing that she was still sitting in her son's bedroom when he was 6 years old every night waiting for him to go to sleep.  Even at that point she wasn't getting much sleep.  And he did not have colic.  He really didn't have any issues except he had learned that falling asleep only happens when mom is there next to me waiting for me to fall asleep.  And I think that really just made it difficult for him to fall asleep.

 

I had colic as a baby myself.  That was back in the day of cry it out.  My parents kept track one night.  Doctor specifically told my parents to do it.  I cried for seven hours straight.  I don't remember that.  I don't feel like my parents hated me.  And knowing what having a colic baby is like...I don't blame them one bit.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

Sparkly, you and I have the same brand of PTSD.

 

And I'm not trying to trivialize PTSD.

 

It took me seven years to consider another baby. I could not understand how parents did it more than once. We tried everything. Everything. And there were the doc visits, oh my, and the baby gastroenterologist, and the tests for GERD (check) and even sleep studies. Oh my. The agony. The special, super expensive formula (because breast feeding was out, no need for judgment here - adoption and other health issues on my part at play). My 12 yr old still has sleep issues. :( Colic is a different beast. I truly think there's PTSD from that type of experience.

 

Yeah I don't know how I had a second baby.

 

Colic baby was on Zantac.  I had gone to specialists  I mean it was all pointless.  They couldn't figure anything out.  Oh and the formula smells like vomit and costs a million dollars.  And this whole he'll stop at 3 months?  HAHAHAHA....NOPE

[SKL]

"Whatever works" works for me.  :)

 

If we could extinguish the mindset that letting your baby cry (or a lot of other normal things) is selfish and nasty, that would work for me too.  :)

[MotherGoose]

See, ladies, this is why the mothers of the 1950s happily gave their babies doctor prescribed peragoric which, I think, is some form of opium, every afternoon when the colic kicked in. My grandmother did it for her three born in the 1950s. My mother, who's old enough to remember those evenings, thought it worked great!

[SparklyUnicorn]

And other than the books, who gives advice most of the time?  Doctors who don't have children.  At least that was my experience.  None of them had children.

 

Now granted, sometimes you have to rely on advice from people who don't have any BTDT, but seriously where did they come up with the advice that you shouldn't let your baby cry?  Must have been some sadistic weirdo who never had a baby.  LOL 

 

And there is a huge difference between "I don't feel like feeding or changing my baby today so tough luck kid" and "I've done everything to address this baby's needs and I'm about to pass out here so he'll have to cry a bit".  First time parents often don't have the confidence to ignore the stupid one size fits all advice. 

 

 

[Guest]

I am still confused about what th study is claiming.....

 

The study is not revelatory. It's just saying if you either push your baby's bedtime later by slow increments to make them go to bed more tired OR allow them to cry for 3 to five minutes at a time to see if they'll self-soothe back to sleep....all after they are 6 months old and older, AND have already been identified by the parents as having sleep "difficulties," the baby and the attachment between the baby and hi parents will be OK when they are 6 years old.

[shawthorne44]

See, for example, this is what the NYT said about the study, in part:

 

Yeah, OK...but that's NOT what the study studied. No one left a baby to "cry and cry."

 

That is what "cry-it-out" IS about.   It is "Let the baby cry until it stops", i.e. the baby realizes that no one is listening or cares.   

[Guest]

That is what "cry-it-out" IS about.   It is "Let the baby cry until it stops", i.e. the baby realizes that no one is listening or cares.   

 

Please see my above post about the colloquial use of "cry it out" versus what the study actually studied.

[SparklyUnicorn]

That is what "cry-it-out" IS about.   It is "Let the baby cry until it stops", i.e. the baby realizes that no one is listening or cares.   

 

Right and this is the damaging part.  This is NOT what is meant.  Or at least I think there can be a middle ground here. I wouldn't have dreamed of ignoring my kids when they were crying.  But there is ignoring and then there is the other extreme of thinking no matter what your baby must not be crying and if you can't figure it out you are a bad parent who will psychologically damage your kid.

[SparklyUnicorn]

If anyone is traumatized by this crying stuff?  It's me...not my kid.  LOL 

[Guest]

If anyone is traumatized by this crying stuff? It's me...not my kid. LOL

Exactly! That's why I'm so glad I got over the guilt and added in headphones with my third. It was that or ME joining the sobbing. And yes, sometimes I just had to leave the room altogether because I couldn't take it anymore. He's now the most well adjusted, easy going dude - very sweet and chill and developmentally normal. But he was a banshee for awhile there.

 

I've had varying fussiness with four of my five currently born children and who knows what will happen with this next one. Thankfully I've not had real hard core, unrelenting colic. But I approach this all from the perspective of offering alternatives to try out when someone asks - no preaching. Because what works for one kid just doesn't work for another. And sometimes NOTHING works! That doesn't make mommy a failure.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Exactly! That's why I'm so glad I got over the guilt and added in headphones with my third. It was that or ME joining the sobbing. And yes, sometimes I just had to leave the room altogether because I couldn't take it anymore. He's now the most well adjusted, easy going dude - very sweet and chill and developmentally normal. But he was a banshee for awhile there.

 

I've had varying fussiness with four of my five currently born children and who knows what will happen with this next one. Thankfully I've not had real hard core, unrelenting colic. But I approach this all from the perspective of offering alternatives to try out when someone asks - no preaching. Because what works for one kid just doesn't work for another. And sometimes NOTHING works! That doesn't make mommy a failure.

 

My husband bought me these aviation noise canceling sort of headphones.  It was more of a joke, but yes I sometimes wore them.  LOL

[ErinE]

Yes they have.

 

Swaddle your baby. My baby screamed more. Carry your baby in a sling or carrier....he screamed more. Hold your baby and sooth when crying. He cried more. Rock baby...screamed...cried. Try different formula...didn't work. Bring to doctor...100 times...did nothing. Don't let your baby cry...if your baby cries he'll be emotionally messed up...great...no matter what I do my baby screams and cries for hours on end...I'm a terrible terrible parent. I haven't slept in days, I'm worried I'm ruining my baby, he cries, I must be a terrible parent.

 

Parents of colic babies need a whole other set of advice.

My advice was give the baby to someone else for three hours (in another home preferably so you can sleep in your own bed) and take a nap. The baby is still going to scream, but will be well cared for. Three hours away from mom now and then isn't going to traumatize the baby for life. After nights of sleeplessness, a three hour nap would make me feel like a new person, if only for a little while.

[Seasider]

When I was waiting in the OBGYN office today they had videos about this or that. One was some guy going on and on about swaddling and how it's so important psychologically and the baby cries less. And I guess he wrote a book about this shi*. I thought..OH FREAKING BROTHER.

Wonder what he thinks of the recent study that indicates swaddled babies have a higher chance of SIDS?

 

(Disclaimer- I'm not putting stock in either set of generalities, every family is different. I just find the research circle amusing at times.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

My advice was give the baby to someone else for three hours (in another home preferably so you can sleep in your own bed) and take a nap. The baby is still going to scream, but will be well cared for. Three hours away from mom now and then isn't going to traumatize the baby for life. After nights of sleeplessness, a three hour nap would make me feel like a new person, if only for a little while.

 

Yeah except I didn't have that.

 

I didn't want to put him in daycare either because I was afraid he'd be mistreated because of how difficult he was.  I never mistreated him.  No matter how bad things got, but man that was a very hellish time.  And the crazy thing was on the extremely rare occasion I got any sort of break, if I went somewhere away from the house the screaming would echo in my head and it was like I heard it anyway.  Lack of sleep makes you crazy.

[eternalsummer]

Personally, it makes zero sense to me to leave a  6 month old baby to cry, given that they haven't yet developed object permanence. In other words, when you leave them crying in their crib for 5 minutes, you know you'll be back...but because the baby has no object permanence, she experiences those 5 minutes as a distressing separation without an end point. 

 

Children over 18 months, two years...now we're getting into an age and stage where the child has an understanding of time, and understands that when you go, you will return. 

 

I never tell people IRL how vehemently I am opposed to sleep training. Actually, I've supported people to implement controlled crying in young babies. Because maternal sleep deprivation is no joke. And better a somewhat damaged attachment than death or injury because mama lost the plot. In other words, it's the lesser of two evils. 

 

But seriously, no attachment issues ?! It doesn't make psychological (or neurobiological )sense to say that separation whilst in distress from a caretaker, for babies under 18 months, has no effect. 

 

Where are the longitudinal studies that look at relationship attachment in adults who were subject to controlled crying as babies ? I'd like to see those. 

 

The 'reality' sleep training gurus present is not nearly as universal as they suggest. We tried it once. It was a freaking nightmare. There's a reason evolution designed us to feel distress when our babies cry.

 

To me, sleep training disguises the core of the problem, which isn't baby sleep cycles. It's totally normal for baby sleep cycles to take up to 3 years to mature. Yes, normal. 

 

What's not normal is that we expect mothers to cope with the demands of being responsive to their child, day or night, in a society that doesn't value them, and where cultural support has broken down under a variety of factors. 

 

 

I am out of likes but this is 100% what I think.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Wonder what he thinks of the recent study that indicates swaddled babies have a higher chance of SIDS?

 

(Disclaimer- I'm not putting stock in either set of generalities, every family is different. I just find the research circle amusing at times.)

 

Someone asked him that.  He gave some very convoluted answer as to why that's not true.  I don't know if it is true..just that he had no real explanation or answer to that question. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

He's still difficult BTW.  :lol:

 

But he did stop crying. 

[MercyA]

nm

Edited June 15, 2016 by MercyA

[JumpyTheFrog]

When I hear "cry-it-out," I usually think of the people who think babies should be sleeping 8-10 hours every night without waking up by 3 months old...or worse, 6 weeks old. I know not everyone uses it that way. I just happened to know several families like that when my oldest was a baby.

 

ETA: Yes, "Babywise" was the book people around me were using. That and "To Train Up a Child" by Michael Pearl. They'd also complain about all the "selfish" people who didn't want unlimited kids. Maybe if they didn't let their newborns cry at night and then spank their toddlers fifty times a day to get them to behave they'd see why the rest of us think kids are a lot of work.

 

<end rant>

Edited May 24, 2016 by HoppyTheToad

[Guest]

I'm grateful something like Babywise never crossed my path with my first, because I wouldn't have known how stupid it was. We used a modified version of The Baby Whisperer with establishing routines and consistency, coupled with what I gathered from the attachment parenting forums I was on. I knew we needed structure but we also had to be meeting all needs promptly. That's actually where swaddling came in - this kid was fidgety and a light sleeper and kept waking herself up within 30-45 minutes of sleeping, no matter how well fed and rocked and me being right there to pat her back to sleep. We were both exhausted and that made her screaming worse.

 

She hated the swaddle for the first few minutes and that scared me off of it in the hospital. When we tried it again at six weeks I gave it longer and she slept her first four hour stretch without waking. From there it was like a new baby. That's one of the reasons I big puffy heart swaddling for us. Loooove! And I'm so thankful I didn't come across that strict CIO garbage because it would have made everything worse. I'm still a strong believer in routines of eating, playing, and sleeping and we have used it with every single baby, but scheduling a poor kid to a clock when their body needs something different is insanity.

[ktgrok]

See, ladies, this is why the mothers of the 1950s happily gave their babies doctor prescribed peragoric which, I think, is some form of opium, every afternoon when the colic kicked in. My grandmother did it for her three born in the 1950s. My mother, who's old enough to remember those evenings, thought it worked great!

 

My dad and his twin got this stuff! My grandmother still swore by it, to her dying day. 

 

Of course, she had 5 kids in three years, it's a miracle anyone survived (two sets of twins with a singleton in between).

 

As for colic, my oldest had it. Per my other post, that kid has been hard since day one. It was maddening. I was an insane person. I honestly thought all babies were like that though, and whenever I met a new parent I wanted to offer my condolences. 10 years later I had a "normal" baby and what a difference! I really wAS a happy mom. I didn't know it was even possible. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Don't beat yourself up MercyA.  :grouphug:

[JumpyTheFrog]

As for colic, my oldest had it. Per my other post, that kid has been hard since day one. It was maddening. I was an insane person. I honestly thought all babies were like that though, and whenever I met a new parent I wanted to offer my condolences. 10 years later I had a "normal" baby and what a difference! I really wAS a happy mom. I didn't know it was even possible. 

 

Yes, my oldest was a difficult baby, a good toddler, and has been difficult since 3 1/2. My youngest was a normal baby and kid, but like you used to feel, I find it hard to be happy for anyone who just had or is expecting a baby. I know in my head that most kids aren't as much work, but I still can't relate to people wanting to go through it again voluntarily.