What do you do when child has difficulty with word problems in SM?

[JRJS]

I've been after schooling ds7. He switched schools this year and found himself bored with Saxon 3 so I continued with Singapore Math at home (which is what he was studying in his former school). In the beginning I was just planning on supplementing and going with the flow with the school and give him Singapore Math 3A-3B. Surprisingly, he breezed through SM 3A and 3B, and eventually through SM 4A and 4B. He loved doing the workbooks so much that even on early Saturday and Sunday mornings when I would go to his bedroom, I'd find him already awake and working on them on his own.  I think it took him about 5 months to complete 3rd and 4th grade. Now that we're on to Singapore Math 5A, he seems to slow down a bit and sometimes even a little less interested. Generally, he does well in the beginning of the chapters when it's all numbers, but when it comes time to doing the word problems, this is where he slows down and loses interest.  He can do the easy straightforward type of word problems, but has a really tough time with the challenging ones.  Although he's always been pretty advanced in math, he is an average reader and he has the  comprehension skills of a 2nd grader.  To give him a break and keep him interested, I moved on to the next chapter, which in this case is introduction to algebra, and he really loves it and doesn't want to go to back now to doing the word problems on fractions. I think he will also enjoy the next few chapters on multiplication and division of decimals. 

 

I think one of the strengths of SM is the word problems so I don't necessarily want to do away with them, but what do I do if the word problems seem to be too much at this point? Do I slow down the math and keep going through the problems over and over and over again until he gets them? Do I skip around in the book? Do I switch math programs ( I did order Beast Academy books recently... still waiting for them to arrive in the mail)? What are your expectations from a young child doing the word problems in SM as they move up? I don't want to turn him off, he seems to still enjoy it (just not so much the challenging word problems) but at the same time I am worried about him having gaps or not getting the most out of SM.  My husband, who is a little more tough on him on math, thinks that he shouldn't be advanced if he cannot get the word problems. He thinks it's pretty meaningless to move him up when he hasn't mastered them. Curious to know what some parents here think and have done with their kids. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EKS]

I guess I agree with your husband.  Maybe instead of moving up through Singapore, you might want to try Beast Academy for a while?

[hornblower]

It's not clear to me how your ds is doing the program.

 

If he's doing it on his own, I'd spend more time teaching them to him  &/or actually do them alongside him. So you work them on a whiteboard or sheet of paper beside him and talk about how you do it. Do several lessons of them together & only gradually wean him off by letting him try one (esp if you get a couple in a row where the 2nd is essentially exactly the same as the one you just worked together)

 If he's still not getting it after numerous demo's and watching you do them. then I'd put it aside for a couple months & try again later. 

(edited to fix pronouns :) ) 

Edited May 22, 2016 by hornblower

[sbgrace]

FAN math by Singapore focuses on word problems alone in a very systemic way. There is clear instruction.

If it's important to you, you could use those books going back to the grade where you think he wasn't quite solid in word problems. They are relatively small books, so you can make progress through them with little time.

 

There is a big jump in word problem difficulty in 5, and the comprehension might be the stick point.

[The Governess]

This book explains how to do word problems the Singapore way: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1934026964/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1463777030&sr=8-2&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=bar+modeling&dpPl=1&dpID=51gCnz88NEL&ref=plSrch

 

When my daughter was working through Singapore 4 and 5, we kept a word problem notebook (spiral graph paper notebook). Every time a new type of word problem came up, we would copy it into the notebook on its own page, draw pretty diagrams, label neatly, show work, and write the answer(s) in a complete sentence. This collection of word problems became a reference that she could pull out if she needed to remember how to set up a problem.

 

Word problems in Singapore start to be worked using the bar method starting in level 3. I would go back to the chapter where the method is introduced and start pulling out word problems for him to work. Have him do one with you every day before he does the rest of his math work.

Edited May 20, 2016 by lovelearnandlive

[Kathleen.]

I agree with the hubby. Just guessing, but it sounds like he's plugging and chugging with the numbers and when it comes to applying the knowledge he gets stuck. Maybe go through what he has learned to see if he understands the concept, not just how to get the answer. Knowing algorithms will only take you so far.

[OlgaLA]

If you think it is a problem, why not go back to CWP3? Calculations part should be easy for him now, and he will be able to concentrate on problem solving aspect. We use CWP3 after finishing BA3.

[JacobJoshmom]

 

Edited May 20, 2016 by JacobJoshmom

[JRJS]

I guess I agree with your husband.  Maybe instead of moving up through Singapore, you might want to try Beast Academy for a while?

 

Yes, looking forward to Beast Academy. Hopefully that will keep him interested. Thanks for the input!

 

It's not clear to me how your ds is doing the program.

 

If he's doing it on his own, I'd spend more time teaching him to to them &/or actually do them alongside him. So you work them on a whiteboard or sheet of paper beside him and talk about how you do it. Do several lessons of them together & only gradually wean him off by letting him try one (esp if you get a couple in a row where the 2nd is essentially exactly the same as the one you just worked together)

 

 If he's still not getting it after numerous demo's and watching you do them. then I'd put it aside for a couple months & try again later. 

 

I explain/present to him the lesson at the beginning of each chapter. After that, he is on his own including answering the word problems. When DS was in Kindergarten, his teacher taught him SM 1A and 1B. At the time, he didn't read well, so she sat with him and read to him the entire book. He became dependent on someone reading to him that when he moved on to 1st grade and had to go to 2nd grade math in a regular classroom setting it became an issue. Since then, we all made a conscientious effort to make him do the workbook independently. I guess I've been a little too concerned with him doing the work independently, I didn't realize 5A would be a big leap for him. I will give your suggestion a try-- work with him more closely on a problem or two then let him do a few similar ones on his own.  

 

FAN math by Singapore focuses on word problems alone in a very systemic way. There is clear instruction.

If it's important to you, you could use those books going back to the grade where you think he wasn't quite solid in word problems. They are relatively small books, so you can make progress through them with little time.

 

There is a big jump in word problem difficulty in 5, and the comprehension might be the stick point.

 

Not familiar with this at all, will check it out. Thanks!

 

This book explains how to do word problems the Singapore way: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1934026964/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1463777030&sr=8-2&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=bar+modeling&dpPl=1&dpID=51gCnz88NEL&ref=plSrch

 

When my daughter was working through Singapore 4 and 5, we kept a word problem notebook (spiral graph paper notebook). Every time a new type of word problem came up, we would copy it into the notebook on its own page, draw pretty diagrams, label neatly, show work, and write the answer(s) in a complete sentence. This collection of word problems became a reference that she could pull out if she needed to remember how to set up a problem.

 

Word problems in Singapore start to be worked using the

bar method starting in level 3. I would go back to the chapter where the method is introduced and start pulling out word problems for him to work. Have him do one with you every day before he does the rest of his math work.

 

This book look interesting! I'll definitely check it out. I wish DS was as diligent. He tries to rush through his work most of the time. It's definitely another area we're trying to work on. Would like to implement a similar method with him one day. 

 

 

I agree with the hubby. Just guessing, but it sounds like he's plugging and chugging with the numbers and when it comes to applying the knowledge he gets stuck. Maybe go through what he has learned to see if he understands the concept, not just how to get the answer. Knowing algorithms will only take you so far.

 

2nd vote for the hubby. :) Not sure if he's just plugging in though. I can see it with the Saxon problems he gets at school where plugging in could allow him to get by. I think it's harder to do it with SM where some of the math problems are very different from the examples and still require him to understand what he's doing.  Some of the questions on the assessments are very different too. I can see it on some, so I do see your point, but I'm not sure he's just plugging in all the time. I think he still understands a lot of it, just not at a very deep, complicated level though. I may have to take a closer look at his work though to be absolutely sure.  

 

If you think it is a problem, why not go back to CWP3? Calculations part should be easy for him now, and he will be able to concentrate on problem solving aspect. We use CWP3 after finishing BA3.

 

 

CWP3?

[OlgaLA]

Sorry, CWP is Challenging Word Problems. It is a part of Singapore curriculum that concentrates on word problems. They go by grade, but many do them a bit behind.

[Black-eyed Suzan]

I just skimmed the rest of the replies, so forgive me if this is redundant.

 

What happens if you read the word problems aloud to him? Does he understand them and can he answer them correctly (in writing or aloud)? If he can, he has a problem reading, not with the math. If so, I would consider reading the word problems to him so you don't hold back his math progress due to a reading issue.

 

If he doesn't understand even when you read it aloud, he does not understand the math and you should stay at the current level (or back up a bit) and teach him the pertinent concepts.

 

Holding a child back in an area of interest/strength because of a weakness in another area is a recipe for a frustrated child, in my opinion. So it's important to discover where the weakness lies.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Black-eyed Suzan

[mathnerd]

I recommend that he keeps going at his pace in SM (5A?) using the textbook and workbook as his main afterschooling spine. In addition to this, I suggest that you buy the CWP (Challenging Word Problems) and IP (Intensive Practice) for level 2A and work on those with him every week as well. When he finishes them, you can consider moving him to the next level in those two books. This is so that you can teach him how to comprehend the meaning behind word problems and then apply his arithmetic to produce the solution. Since he will be at a lower level for the word problems and since you think that his language comprehension needs improvement, this approach will give you time to teach him to comprehend the question before he can write the steps to show work. But, you can keep him learning new concepts with level 5A in the meantime.

 

In our case, my DS rushes through word problems and he easily misses key words that make or break a solution - he might miss words like "except" or "all together" and arrive at a wrong answer. So, I taught him to comprehend word problems - I made him circle the key words that he thinks are most important first, then underline the important numbers and then put a box around the final question (e.g. who has more marbles or How many marbles are left in the box etc). I also told him to go to the bottom of the white space for the problem and write the units after the blank (draw a blank line for the solution if it is not printed) if applicable. Then, I asked him to draw bar models or number bonds or pictures to solve the problem. If he missed any of these steps, he was asked to fix them. After a while, he caught on. After a longer while, he was able to just read and comprehend and spot any tricky wordings just by reading through. Now, with experience, he does not need to do all these steps and directly goes to bar modeling of the problem. He instinctively checks for any traps in the wordings when he attempts a word problem - most of the credit goes to working on competition math problems - I got the books by Cleo Borac and bought a bunch of question papers from the Math Kangaroo website and let him do them for fun in the summer. He loves tricky problems and gets a kick out of not falling for the "word traps" as he calls them.

 

Good luck.

Edited May 21, 2016 by mathnerd

[matrips]

Another one with your dh. the word problems are the application of the concepts. If he can't get them, he's likely just crunching numbers, doing arithmetic instead of mathematics. One of my kids excels at arithmetic, can do it all in his head, and always loved math because it came so easy to him. He'd do math for fun like yours. But he struggles sometimes wrapping his head around the applying what he has learned. He was always one to rush through things and that doesn't work as well with complicated word problems. With all my kids, we never moved to the next level until the textbooks, workbooks, intensive practice a and b and the challenging word problems were completed. The texts and workbooks are pretty simple and straightforward compared to the IPs and CWPs.

I'd have him work through those supplemental books to really get the concepts down. There's no point to rushing through. I tell my kids they're just cool puzzles to figure out and solve. Teach him to look for key words and patterns. They are fun!

[Alte Veste Academy]

I've been after schooling ds7.

 

I think it took him about 5 months to complete 3rd and 4th grade. Now that we're on to Singapore Math 5A, he seems to slow down a bit and sometimes even a little less interested. Generally, he does well in the beginning of the chapters when it's all numbers, but when it comes time to doing the word problems, this is where he slows down and loses interest.  He can do the easy straightforward type of word problems, but has a really tough time with the challenging ones.  Although he's always been pretty advanced in math, he is an average reader and he has the  comprehension skills of a 2nd grader.

 

He is 7 (seven!), working in a challenging 5th grade math curriculum. In my experience, it is totally normal that he has slowed down a bit and even more normal to me that he is having a tougher time with the challenging word problems than with the straightforward ones. I mean, when you put it like that, LOL, it's pretty logical. The same would be true of any 5th grader working on grade level.

 

Honestly, I don't think you have a problem here. You just have hit his challenge spot, and that is a good thing for a gifted child! Work with him. I do suspect comprehension is an issue based on what you said. But then...he is 7 with the comprehension skills of a 2nd grader, which is totally and completely normal! He is having to read these complex word problems and try to sort out the language from the math. I personally don't think that indicates that the math itself is a problem. 

 

I LOVE Beast Academy (used with two kids) and Singapore (used the whole series straight through with three kids). By all means introduce him to Beast Academy to foster his math love. But don't take away the Singapore challenging word problems. Sure, slow down the math if that's what he needs. Solve them together. Do buddy math. And, yes, read them aloud to him while he draws out the info he needs to complete the problem. As a PP said, it's unfortunate when a mismatch of two skills is allowed to cause a restriction of a strength. You can be his tutor/reader/helper. No problem.

 

If you think it is a problem, why not go back to CWP3? Calculations part should be easy for him now, and he will be able to concentrate on problem solving aspect. We use CWP3 after finishing BA3.

 

I do think picking up the SM Challenging Word Problems books is a great idea, starting with CWP3 would be good. Also, putting questions individually on a whiteboard has a magical effect here. 

 

Also, early in the program, there are any number of ways to solve word problems. As you get closer to the end, it becomes more of a choice between the bar diagrams (which you need to have been taught and understand very well) or straight up algebra. So make sure those bar diagrams are good. And by the way, you appear to be new here, so I feel the need to share that it is not at all uncommon for people to post for help with their kids' SM word problems. In fact, it's a pretty regular occurrence. LOL Seriously. They are known to be challenging.

 

This book look interesting! I'll definitely check it out. I wish DS was as diligent. He tries to rush through his work most of the time. It's definitely another area we're trying to work on. Would like to implement a similar method with him one day. 

 

Not sure if he's just plugging in though.

 

Waking in the morning to do much loved math sounds plenty diligent for a 2nd grader in my opinion! :D Also, I really doubt a 7 year old got to SM 5th grade by plugging.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Alte Veste Academy

[fdrinca]

It sounds like your son might not have strategies for solving word problems. Does he use the bar method? Does he draw a picture for each problem? (My kids can't ask for help on a word problem until they've tried drawing a picture, usual a bar model since we also use SM. They usually figure the problem out after a picture.)

 

+1 for Challenging Word Problems. It presents example problems, easier problems, and then challenging problems. If he's mathy, he might appreciate the challenging problems...once he gets the strategies for solving problems down. 

[kbutton]

I highly recommend the Process Skills in Problem Solving book. We didn't really like the CWP books. We did like the Intensive Practice books. For learning to set up and do word problems with models, the Process Skills books are very, very helpful. If those go well, then maybe move on to the CWP books.

 

I also think it's a good idea to read them together and mark them up for key information as another poster suggested.

[sbgrace]

I highly recommend the Process Skills in Problem Solving book. We didn't really like the CWP books. We did like the Intensive Practice books. For learning to set up and do word problems with models, the Process Skills books are very, very helpful. If those go well, then maybe move on to the CWP books.

 

I also think it's a good idea to read them together and mark them up for key information as another poster suggested.

 

Yes This is the FAN math I was mentioning above. I actually used both CWP and FAN math Process Skills in Problem Solving. The FAN math are better books imo. The FAN books clearly teach/model how to solve the problems and have detailed solutions as well. It's very systemic. They are really great books, but not as well known as other Singapore products.

 

I'm going to link for you OP, because these books would be an easy way to target his word problem skills without a lot of extra time. Because they aren't overwhelming sized books, you could go back to whatever grade you think he needs and just do a page or even problem a day and still make progress.

http://www.singaporemath.com/Fan_Math_Process_Skills_in_Prob_Solving_L3_p/fmpsps3.htm

Edited May 23, 2016 by sbgrace

[Kathleen.]

Summer is upon us. How about giving him a little break and play around with Hands On Equations. It starts out easy and gradually becomes more challenging and there's a word problem book (pick the more comprehensive one). Since it uses pawns to figure out the equations, you'll be certain if he gets it or not and so will he. There are lots of samples on the Internet.

☺

Edited May 23, 2016 by Kathleen.