Please Help me Streamline 5 kids...

[anmom]

Its that time of year that I analyze what we have done for the past year and rethink the next. It isn't that I completely hate what we have done, but I always walk away with this feeling that it could be better or easier. (Might be wishful thinking for it to be easy to hs 5 kids!) I do feel like things should be a little easier, that it could be more "fun" (and I am not one who feels like all school should always be fun), or that we could at least get to everything in a given week. 

 

I am open to changing things up a little this year. Heck, I would even consider something preplanned and boxed if it fit the bill. Please help with your thoughts and what you use or like. I used to be very classical, but have lately been very intrigued and pulled into a lot of CM areas as well. Here is what we are using now for these grades (they will all be advancing) I just feel like noone is enjoying school anymore and I also worry that I have 2 kids going into 5th grade and things need to be ramped up for next year. 

 

Together-we do Bible, History (using guest hollow american history 2), Science (ES chemistry). We are good about getting those done. But then there are all the extras I want to do that seem so sporadic...rececitation, poetry, music study, picture study, poetry, character study, art, geography (we are using Beautiful Feet with Tree in the Trail right now), etc, etc

 

K-random Ready to read units (these work well for him), simple math facts, handwriting, etc

 

1st-Memoria Press 1st grade curriculum with MM for math

 

3rd-MM 4B, cursive, R&S spelling 5, R&S english 3, CAP Writing & rhetoric, Literature-various lit guides and books picked from MP, VP, etc for her grade, Latin for Chldren A (we are not good about getting to latin at all)

 

4th-MM4B, cursive, R&S spelling 4, R&S english 3, CAP w&R, Lit-same as above, Song School Latin

 

4th-MM6B (really need to consider whats next for PreA), cursive, R&S spelling 6, R&s english 4, just finished CAP w&r, lit-using Narnia study with Further up and further in, Latin for children A

 

As you can see, my 2 fourth graders are on different levels of most things, so that makes streamlining a bit more difficult.

 

Please help me make next year easier and more exciting! I hate this "get the next thing done and trudge through the whole day" feeling our day has become! 

 

[EmilyGF]

Is it necessary to do CAP Writing and Rhetoric AND R&S English? That seems like overkill.

 

If your kids are generally good spellers, how about switching them to Phonetic Zoo (so you don't have to be as involved).

 

Emily

[HS Mom in NC]

Here's an old thread on juggling muti ages: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/447289-not-handling-the-multi-ages-very-well/?hl=%2Bnot+%2Bhandling+%2Bmulti+%2Bages+%2Bvery+%2Bwell&do=findComment&comment=4584257

[anmom]

Is it necessary to do CAP Writing and Rhetoric AND R&S English? That seems like overkill.

 

If your kids are generally good spellers, how about switching them to Phonetic Zoo (so you don't have to be as involved).

 

Emily

 

 

Its a thought. They really dont do any writing in R&S so that was why I added it. Also, the R&S spelling they do independently. I just check and do the spelling tests at the end of the week.

 

They are pretty independent in a lot of areas, I just feel so pulled from one to the other all the time. Maybe that is normal with 5 in school? Up until this year I only had 2. (we adopted the other 3)

[Ms.Ivy]

I use both Writing & Rhetoric and Rod and Staff... but we do a lot orally and they do the written assignments on their own. We alternate resources each day.

 

I would encourage you to not think you need to do poetry, music, geography, nature study, etc., all every year. You can just pick nature study to focus on here and there one year, and then the next year, focus on geography. You can have a song of the month to listen to on Sunday afternoons, instead of trying to fit in composer/music study every day. Or you can have 10 minutes set aside every day for those things and you just put them all on a loop schedule.

 

You also may not need to do lit guides. Or maybe just use them as a discussion guide on Fridays instead of doing Latin that day.

 

I hope you are able to find your groove quickly and painlessly! :-)

[Momto6inIN]

I would encourage you to not think you need to do poetry, music, geography, nature study, etc., all every year. You can just pick nature study to focus on here and there one year, and then the next year, focus on geography. You can have a song of the month to listen to on Sunday afternoons, instead of trying to fit in composer/music study every day. Or you can have 10 minutes set aside every day for those things and you just put them all on a loop schedule.

 

 

This is what I was going to say too :)

 

We have lots of that fun stuff in our "morning meeting basket" and while we read 1 poem every day, the rest we just get to when we get to it. I don't schedule it at all, just have a bunch of resources that I know I want to get to eventually but don't really fit anywhere else in our day. We start the day with morning meeting for about 20 minutes and then move on to history and the other subjects that we do all together before we break out into our individual subjects. You might be surprised how much fun and togetherness that few minutes of "whatever" injects into your day!

 

[jennyof11]

Together-we do Bible, History (using guest hollow american history 2), Science (ES chemistry). We are good about getting those done. But then there are all the extras I want to do that seem so sporadic...rececitation, poetry, music study, picture study, poetry, character study, art, geography (we are using Beautiful Feet with Tree in the Trail right now), etc, etc

 

 

Bible - History - Science:

First, I'm sure you plan to keep what works. These subjects that you do together appear to work for you and you seem to enjoy them??

 

Language Arts - Math - Latin

These subjects you listed by each child's grade. How do you feel about them? Are you concerned about these as well, or are they not as worrisome to you as the CM extras you listed? Just wondering.

 

Recitation - Poetry - Music Study - Picture Study - Character Study - Art - Geography

These things you list as "extras" that you want to do, but they seem so "sporadic". They definitely are if you try to do each one in isolation.

 

Some suggestions:

 

Depending on your edu. philosophy, either study Geography with Science or with History. If you do want it to be an isolated subject, let it be a fast, fun drill format that you do maybe 2-3 times per week for 10-15 minutes at a time. Quick ideas: point at maps & they shout out names, or states & capitals recitations, or a fast paper quiz, or look at this map of ___ for 1/2/3 minutes. When I take it away, you have ___ minutes to try to fill in the blank version with as much detail as you can, etc.

 

My humble opinion: I would not study Character as a subject. Let the DC know what you expect in terms of their habits, attitudes, manners, etc. as a family. Read favorite books together. Then refer to those things at natural and proper teachable moments throughout your days, in school or not. I am not advocating "hounding" their every move, always analyzing them --- just allow character to develop in the natural ebbs and flows, with a compliment here, a correction there, pointing out strong character in books, stories, IRL, etc. (Am I making any sense?)

 

Art & Picture Study go together. The picture study can count as art. If you/they want to create their own, let it function as a mental break/refresher between more intense subjects, or let them look forward to it after their other work is done. 

 

Poetry and Recitation go together. Memorize and recite poetry. Or just take turns having your readers read today's poetry aloud - that's recitation. (A lot of Art or Character discussions can come from reading poetry as well.)

 

Music study can be a simple as, "Children, our composer this month is Mozart. We will learn a bit about him from this book or video, then for the rest of the month, we will be listening to his music while you work on your Math, during meals, or driving in the car. We will listen to a cd several times until we can start to recognize the songs..." Do as you please with this, but it need not be more than that. You can obviously assign a report if you want. If you want them to learn instruments, I don't know how to advise - it totally depends on so many things.

 

Finally, remember: Don't do everything everyday, keep variety in your days. For instance:

 

Monday: 

Do Math - Language Arts 

then Art & Picture Study 

then Bible - History

 

Tuesday:

Do Math - Latin

then Poetry & Recitation

then Bible - History

 

Wednesday:

Do Math - Lang Arts

then Geography Drill & Recitation of other memory work

then Bible, and call it a short day or a big art project, or instrument lessons today...???

 

Thursday:

Do Math - Latin

then Art & Picture Study - same picture again

then Bible - Science

 

Friday;

Do Math - Language Arts

then Poetry & Recitation - same poem or poet

then Bible - Science

 

That was totally off the top of my head, but I'm trying to spark ideas for how to combine/streamline and keep it interesting. It will require a willingness to have shorter, less structured lessons, and not do everything everyday in the same order. 

 

This may all be obvious to you already. Let me know if you need more specific help. But adding 3 DC all at once, along with the fact that you seem to do well when working together, along with stating above that you feel pulled from one to the other a lot... I thought this might spark a new perspective for you??? HTH.

[anmom]

Bible - History - Science:

First, I'm sure you plan to keep what works. These subjects that you do together appear to work for you and you seem to enjoy them??

 

Language Arts - Math - Latin

These subjects you listed by each child's grade. How do you feel about them? Are you concerned about these as well, or are they not as worrisome to you as the CM extras you listed? Just wondering.

 

Recitation - Poetry - Music Study - Picture Study - Character Study - Art - Geography

These things you list as "extras" that you want to do, but they seem so "sporadic". They definitely are if you try to do each one in isolation.

 

Some suggestions:

 

Depending on your edu. philosophy, either study Geography with Science or with History. If you do want it to be an isolated subject, let it be a fast, fun drill format that you do maybe 2-3 times per week for 10-15 minutes at a time. Quick ideas: point at maps & they shout out names, or states & capitals recitations, or a fast paper quiz, or look at this map of ___ for 1/2/3 minutes. When I take it away, you have ___ minutes to try to fill in the blank version with as much detail as you can, etc.

 

My humble opinion: I would not study Character as a subject. Let the DC know what you expect in terms of their habits, attitudes, manners, etc. as a family. Read favorite books together. Then refer to those things at natural and proper teachable moments throughout your days, in school or not. I am not advocating "hounding" their every move, always analyzing them --- just allow character to develop in the natural ebbs and flows, with a compliment here, a correction there, pointing out strong character in books, stories, IRL, etc. (Am I making any sense?)

 

Art & Picture Study go together. The picture study can count as art. If you/they want to create their own, let it function as a mental break/refresher between more intense subjects, or let them look forward to it after their other work is done.

 

Poetry and Recitation go together. Memorize and recite poetry. Or just take turns having your readers read today's poetry aloud - that's recitation. (A lot of Art or Character discussions can come from reading poetry as well.)

 

Music study can be a simple as, "Children, our composer this month is Mozart. We will learn a bit about him from this book or video, then for the rest of the month, we will be listening to his music while you work on your Math, during meals, or driving in the car. We will listen to a cd several times until we can start to recognize the songs..." Do as you please with this, but it need not be more than that. You can obviously assign a report if you want. If you want them to learn instruments, I don't know how to advise - it totally depends on so many things.

 

Finally, remember: Don't do everything everyday, keep variety in your days. For instance:

 

Monday:

Do Math - Language Arts

then Art & Picture Study

then Bible - History

 

Tuesday:

Do Math - Latin

then Poetry & Recitation

then Bible - History

 

Wednesday:

Do Math - Lang Arts

then Geography Drill & Recitation of other memory work

then Bible, and call it a short day or a big art project, or instrument lessons today...???

 

Thursday:

Do Math - Latin

then Art & Picture Study - same picture again

then Bible - Science

 

Friday;

Do Math - Language Arts

then Poetry & Recitation - same poem or poet

then Bible - Science

 

That was totally off the top of my head, but I'm trying to spark ideas for how to combine/streamline and keep it interesting. It will require a willingness to have shorter, less structured lessons, and not do everything everyday in the same order.

 

This may all be obvious to you already. Let me know if you need more specific help. But adding 3 DC all at once, along with the fact that you seem to do well when working together, along with stating above that you feel pulled from one to the other a lot... I thought this might spark a new perspective for you??? HTH.

 

This makes total sense. I think my problem is more that I feel like I can't get it all done. When, in reality I don't have to do it all everyday . I also see all of these pretty boxed sets of curriculum that look so wonderful and feel like mine is thrown together, however I don't think anything already put together would fit all of our needs. I guess really I'm just having a moment and need some perspective!

[jennyof11]

You are right no boxed curriculum will fit, only by degrees, and they are too expensive for that! Adding 3 at once means you have a fast learning curve, and its going to feel wrong or not as good, or unnatural. But your thrown together stuff is way better for them BECAUSE YOU KNOW AND LOVE THEM like no publisher could. Decide for each subject what you are willing to combine. Then decide how many times per week you believe each subject or combo of subjects ought to be done. Use the same time slot to alternate subjects, use their favorite subjects either as midwork refreshers, and or a reward to look forward to, you get the idea. Just dont let fear or comparison sabotage you.

[BlsdMama]

Its a thought. They really dont do any writing in R&S so that was why I added it. Also, the R&S spelling they do independently. I just check and do the spelling tests at the end of the week.

 

They are pretty independent in a lot of areas, I just feel so pulled from one to the other all the time. Maybe that is normal with 5 in school? Up until this year I only had 2. (we adopted the other 3)

 

 

So, first, they *will* be doing writing exercises in Rod and Staff and those exercises are endorsed by SWB.  So, I guess it's just encouragement that while they aren't there yet, you will see more writing exercises worked in.  :)

[BlsdMama]

Its that time of year that I analyze what we have done for the past year and rethink the next. It isn't that I completely hate what we have done, but I always walk away with this feeling that it could be better or easier. (Might be wishful thinking for it to be easy to hs 5 kids!) I do feel like things should be a little easier, that it could be more "fun" (and I am not one who feels like all school should always be fun), or that we could at least get to everything in a given week. 

 

I am open to changing things up a little this year. Heck, I would even consider something preplanned and boxed if it fit the bill. Please help with your thoughts and what you use or like. I used to be very classical, but have lately been very intrigued and pulled into a lot of CM areas as well. Here is what we are using now for these grades (they will all be advancing) I just feel like noone is enjoying school anymore and I also worry that I have 2 kids going into 5th grade and things need to be ramped up for next year. 

 

Together-we do Bible, History (using guest hollow american history 2), Science (ES chemistry). We are good about getting those done. But then there are all the extras I want to do that seem so sporadic...rececitation, poetry, music study, picture study, poetry, character study, art, geography (we are using Beautiful Feet with Tree in the Trail right now), etc, etc

 

K-random Ready to read units (these work well for him), simple math facts, handwriting, etc

 

1st-Memoria Press 1st grade curriculum with MM for math

 

3rd-MM 4B, cursive, R&S spelling 5, R&S english 3, CAP Writing & rhetoric, Literature-various lit guides and books picked from MP, VP, etc for her grade, Latin for Chldren A (we are not good about getting to latin at all)

 

4th-MM4B, cursive, R&S spelling 4, R&S english 3, CAP w&R, Lit-same as above, Song School Latin

 

4th-MM6B (really need to consider whats next for PreA), cursive, R&S spelling 6, R&s english 4, just finished CAP w&r, lit-using Narnia study with Further up and further in, Latin for children A

 

As you can see, my 2 fourth graders are on different levels of most things, so that makes streamlining a bit more difficult.

 

Please help me make next year easier and more exciting! I hate this "get the next thing done and trudge through the whole day" feeling our day has become! 

 

 

So I'm looking at what you feel solid in:

Bible

History

Science

 

Do you feel good in math?

 

The one thing that really jumped out at me is that the things you listed are rotational things for us - not consistent.  And if you are hoping to "do all things" then it can easily feel like it's not enough.  

 

What if you were to sit down and make concrete goals for what you'd like to accomplish.

For instance:

Recitation - Memorize and recite four poems per year.

Picture Study - one artist per semester

Music Study - one composer per semester, listen to audio in vehicle

 

The reason I say it is because without a plan, it's hard to accomplish, you just get these ambigious "feelings" that you aren't enough, kwim?  I have to ask - have you heard of or done what's now called Morning Basket, previously Circle Time or whatever you want to call it?  The reason I ask is because the very things you're listing are things that would work well in a group, be enjoyable as a group, and lend themselves well to rotation rather than daily things.  If you haven't seen Simply Charlotte Mason blog about memory boxes and the heard any of the Morning Basket podcasts, they might really fit the bill of what you're seeking and lend inspiration to make and execute a solid plan pretty painlessly in a group.

[Chris in VA]

How about letting your kids do tea time on Fridays (or any other day)? Or even once every 2 weeks or once a month.They can prepare a poem to recite or a passage to share from whatever they read that week. You can decorate with a lovely or provocative picture on the table. They could take turns helping you make tea sandwiches, or cookies, or muffins, or fruit salad....Just a cozy time to relax and share a bit.

 

Take the long view. If you learned the works of two artists a year (say, 5 works each) then by the time they've graduated, you'll have covered 16 artists and 80+ works painlessly by the time they graduate. Try playing a famous tune or two at tea time, and you'll have covered a lot of music, too!

[anmom]

I need to read more on the morning basket. I feel like we are roughly doing that, emphasis on rough though 😅. And I do combine those extras already.

 

I am set in math for now. I really like MM. However, one of my 4th graders will be ready for prealg by next term, so I need to start thinking about what's next.

[Heidi]

One thing I'm thinking about doing differently,that might give you some ideas, is dropping grammar (especially since we're doing latin), and doing analytical grammar in 7th and 8th, and be done.

 

Next, I'm going to hold a geography club and a poetry club once a month with friends.

 

Finally, replace individual writing curriculum with copywork, dictation (spelling), freewrites, journal prompts, and written narration all together as a family. Essays can come in high school.

 

So basically I'm streamlining LA.

[BlsdMama]

I need to read more on the morning basket. I feel like we are roughly doing that, emphasis on rough though 😅. And I do combine those extras already.

 

I am set in math for now. I really like MM. However, one of my 4th graders will be ready for prealg by next term, so I need to start thinking about what's next.

 

 

I love having a plan.  :)

 

But I've also stopped beating myself for living a normal life, complete with interruptions, and a household with really imperfect humans.  I  think  it is so good to do what you are doing - strive towards good and beautiful goals.  And I think when you pull it off less than perfect, you extend yourself a little grace too so that you don't burn out.  We listened to a lot of music (and meant to do a lot of composer study) and more stuck than you'd realize.  There is so much comfort in having older children because you really are pleasantly surprised by what imperfection accomplishes over time. ;)

[Sahamamama]

K-random Ready to read units (these work well for him), simple math facts, handwriting, etc

 

1st-Memoria Press 1st grade curriculum with MM for math

 

3rd-MM 4B, cursive, R&S spelling 5, R&S english 3, CAP Writing & rhetoric, Literature-various lit guides and books picked from MP, VP, etc for her grade, Latin for Chldren A (we are not good about getting to latin at all)

 

4th-MM4B, cursive, R&S spelling 4, R&S english 3, CAP w&R, Lit-same as above, Song School Latin

 

4th-MM6B (really need to consider whats next for PreA), cursive, R&S spelling 6, R&s english 4, just finished CAP w&r, lit-using Narnia study with Further up and further in, Latin for children A

 

 

Here's what I would do to streamline next year:

• For your 4th & 5th graders, I would drop the Literature Guides and simply read aloud to the entire group from an assortment of chapter books, poetry, children's classics, and Bible stories. If you like STT & MSTT for 1st grade, those are wonderful (we did STT & MSTT twice and loved it!), but I wouldn't put any more time into LGs for higher grades. Instead, assemble a collection of real books and read. Perhaps in 7th or 8th, spend time doing some literary analysis, learning the terms and so on, but in these years, just read.
• Your rising 4th Grader seems to be doing much the same work as (or more advanced than) your rising 5th Grader B. Is there a reason not to pair them up for Math, English, and Composition?
• If possible, you might want to consider Phonetic Zoo Spelling for your more independent worker(s). Each student doing PZ would need to take a placement test over the summer, and then you'd have to set up and teach each student to work independently. But once that was in place, the student would basically do spelling on his or her own. We started with PZ last year in 4th with my oldest, because she was just ready to take charge, but we were coming from AAS. If you're already satisfied with the set up of R & S for spelling, you might not feel the need to change this piece.
• What seems to take the most "out" of you? Is it Math? English? Composition? Whatever it is, you might want to look for something that is less teacher-directed for your oldest students, so there is some of you "left over" for your youngest two. Have you looked at CLE Language Arts? If a more student-directed course worked for even one of your students, it could replace R&S Spelling, R&S English, cursive, and perhaps CAP Writing. That might be a load off your shoulders for quite a lot of English!
• Would it be possible to transition Latin to a group lesson, with a lot of repetition, recitation, and songs, so that your 4th & 5th graders could travel that road together? It doesn't hurt to go over the same material a few times. Or perhaps focus on the basics and allow Latin to wait until 7th or 8th for your oldest?

Older Group

• 5th Grader A -- Math (next step), CLE LA ?
• 5th Grader B -- Math MM 5A, CLE LA ?
• 4th Grader -- Math MM 5A, CLE LA ?
• Together -- Latin Class, possibly older level Read Alouds (without Lit Guides)

Younger Group

• 2nd Grader -- Math MM (next level), CLE LA ?
• 1st Grader -- Memoria Press 1st Grade (since you've taught it already)
• Together -- Song School Latin (just listening), possibly younger level read alouds (STT & MSTT)

Full Group

• Bible -- With everything else on your plate, I would keep this simple (e.g., read through The Children's Illustrated Bible, by Selina Hastings, or Egermeier's Bible Story Book, and consider it done).
• History -- You could alternate this with Science, 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off.
• Science -- You could alternate this with History, 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off. Alternatively, you could drop Science as a formal subject (with lessons, experiments, supplies to gather). Instead, require your older students to read from a Science Bookshelf for ___ minutes ____ times a week, and sometimes to narrate back to you. Have group science read alouds, take nature walks, and discuss science as a family.
• Literature -- Again, I would transition this away from a "seatwork" subject (with LGs) and make it more of a "sofa" subject. Snuggly read alouds, together as a family.

Extras

Honestly, with five kids learning basic skills, I wouldn't worry too much about these, but if you do want to weave in some beauty, it's possible to rotate these (and it's enough). Here's one possibility:

• Poetry -- Weeks 1-3, Weeks 19-21
• Composer Study -- Weeks 4-6, Weeks 22-24
• Geography -- Weeks 7-9, Weeks 25-27
• Artist Study -- Weeks 10-12, Weeks 28-30
• Character Study -- Weeks 13-15, Weeks 31-33
• Art Class -- Weeks 16-18, Weeks 34-36

HTH.

[jennyof11]

I don't know how familiar you are with the concept of loop schedules mentioned here. You can apply it to your overall schedule, or just parts of it, or various parts of each child's list of things to do. (Sarah Mackenzie has many different ideas/ways to use it to your advantage on her blog at Amongst Lovely Things - posts, podcasts, webinar. Its a very versatile tool that can salvage things you feel you must set aside because you just can't fit it in.)

 

Part of the fear of "fitting it all in" comes from our deeply ingrained idea that every subject has to be studied regularly, rigorously, and systematically according to a proper scope and sequence, or it won't be "properly" learned. Again, some subjects maybe ought to be that way - math usually comes to mind. 

 

But I hope to encourage you by saying or reminding you that most true learning doesn't happen in nice neat scope and sequences, especially at grade-school levels. Instead, we tend to store away seeds and bits and pieces of things that stand out to us, and pursue interests, having periodic Aha! moments. And that encourages more searching, questioning, and learning and on it goes. 

 

This is the very reason why you do not have to control every aspect of every detail of each child's education. You can't and you don't have to. Their brains will assimilate things in particular to their own personalities and such, and will grow and accumulate to add to who they are and who they become someday.

 

It's your job to provide a supportive environment and materials that expose, provoke, inspire them. And trying to cover every subject every day will do the opposite at this stage.

 

I know this doesn't solve your day to day scheduling, etc, but I hope that offers you some relief to think about.  

 

 

[Sahamamama]

Just wanted to mention that these have made Artist Study happen around here! ;)

 

https://simplycharlottemason.com/store/picture-study-portfolios/

 

And these have made Composer Study a much-loved part of our month (not day or week). :)

 

http://www.zeezok.com/Great-Musicians-Series_c_7.html

 

We chose three artists and three composers for the year (we alternate). We are not "done" yet, but this has been an easy way to incorporate these elements into our lives. I usually put one or the other on a Friday afternoon, or on a rainy afternoon when we have no evening activity. HTH.

[Sahamamama]

I love having a plan.   :)

 

But I've also stopped beating myself for living a normal life, complete with interruptions, and a household with really imperfect humans.  I  think  it is so good to do what you are doing - strive towards good and beautiful goals.  And I think when you pull it off less than perfect, you extend yourself a little grace too so that you don't burn out.  We listened to a lot of music (and meant to do a lot of composer study) and more stuck than you'd realize.  There is so much comfort in having older children because you really are pleasantly surprised by what imperfection accomplishes over time. ;)

 

:001_wub: Thanks for posting that. I needed to hear it. :)