KaceeM Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 So I am about to start working through Life of Fred with a 2nd grader. We have the whole series from Apples to Pre-Alg 2 w/Economics (found all 18 books as a set at our home school store for $3 apiece!). I have heard great things about them but I've also heard some things that concern me about the author. Mainly that he seems to be pushing some sort of agenda, and he has some odd ideas about the civil war. So I'd like to be warned before we dive in, what should I be watching out for? I know there is some benign religion interspersed with the story, mainly since the characters attend church and its just a part of Fred's life. Is there anything else I should be concerned about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 http://lifeoffredmath.com/lof-stancat.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 As a heads up, that's not the whole series - it goes on beyond calculus. If the books you bought were old, then in Dogs, it might seem the dogs get euthanized in the end (but they don't explicitly say that, but it's a pretty small leap). After complaints, they started adding a sticker to the end of the book later, saying that an anonymous donation from a doll meant that the shelter had enough money to save all the dogs, and in newer books they just have it as part of the text. If you have an older book, iirc you can request a sticker from the publisher or something (or you can just make sure you tell your kid what really happened, rather than letting the kid assume). Stan's economics is a little problematic, in that he's a little too free market, so you'd have to find some additional economics sources or discuss the issues yourself. Overall, the books are written from Stan's world view, as you'd expect. You may or may not agree with everything in his world view. IMO, reading Apples-Mineshaft aloud to the kids you could discuss any issues you may have, and for Fractions and up, I'd preread and discuss possible issues with the kid. Note that I haven't read Percents&Decimals, Pre-Algebra 0 with Physics, or Pre-Algebra I with Biology, nor Advanced Algebra or beyond (actually, I read the Personal Finance one as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) The only things that really bothered me were in the calculus book, which wasn't written for children. Major issues were alcoholism, major child abuse/neglect, wife murder (semi-accidental, but there was Fred the baby performing mathematical calculations determining that his mother was about to die...) The other books have been fine, but I got rid of calculus. Edited April 30, 2016 by maize 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I figure that his opinions are good opportunities for critical analysis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I've seen someone pull a number of sexist quotes from them. Things like problems where women are focused on needing to lose weight and stuff like that. I can't seem to find it at the moment though. If it works for you, I'd just be alert to that sort of thing and see if it ever crosses a line for you. Most people seem to agree that it's subtle except in certain books, like the economics one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I've seen someone pull a number of sexist quotes from them. Things like problems where women are focused on needing to lose weight and stuff like that. I can't seem to find it at the moment though. Joe and Darlene are both dimwits. The quotes I've seen people claim are sexist are regarding Darlene, but he has similar stuff about Joe, and Alexander and Betty are both positive role models and the opposite of Joe and Darlene. It's pretty clear when reading the books that the stuff Darlene does, such as losing weight for Joe, is stupid, and the stuff Joe does is stupid too, and that Stan intends them to be seen as stupid (along with the janitors and the president of the university as well). I think a lot of it would be good to discuss with the kids, but I don't think the books are sexist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) Agree with luuknam, there are both male and female dufuses and their dufus status is quite clear. Edited April 30, 2016 by maize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 We only used a few of his books so maybe I'm not the best person to weigh in, but none of his comments concerned me. I thought whatever he said that might potentially give me pause was just mostly a joke. We enjoyed the humor. I didn't take it to mean anything beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I don't think it is an agenda. Quirky sense of humor which is sarcastic and rather dark at times. And a worldview, but then we all have one of those even if we don't all have an agenda. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolate-chip chooky Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 We only discovered Fred a couple of years ago and jumped straight in at Pre-Alg with Physics when my daughter was about 8. We LOVED this book and I had no issues with the content at all. Pre-Alg with Biology was fabulous too. The off-beat humour suits us and I always read the books out loud with my daughter, so there's always opportunities to pause and discuss. We're kind of plodding through Pre-Alg with Economics though. I personally have no prior education in economics, so it's hard to tell if there's an agenda or not, but I've had a couple of 'hmmmm' moments. I wouldn't use this book as our only economics text by any means, but that goes for the physics and biology too. We're also in the middle of the chem book and so far it's great. No issues with content and the level is perfect for my daughter (now 10). We treat our Fred time as a fun supplement, with quirky characters and a sometimes-snarky author. The style isn't for everyone, but it suits us. And I can't get past OP's comment re $3 per book. Oh wow. To get the books here in Australia, I've paid around $50 - $80ish per book, taking into account AUS$ and postage. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaLisa Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I don't think it is an agenda. Quirky sense of humor which is sarcastic and rather dark at times. And a worldview, but then we all have one of those even if we don't all have an agenda. My take. BUT, we've only used the geometry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momto6inIN Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Fractions and Decimals & Percents and Biology were fine. Economics I sold. And I'm a conservative. So yeah, I'd say that one has an agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 http://lifeoffredmath.com/lof-stancat.php While watching these can help you understand the author's "out there" opinions on things, most of this does not come up in his textbooks. We used the two algebra books. Tried the geometry and hated it (for its pedagogy, not its politics). We didn't find anything beyond the pale in those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 The only things that really bothered me were in the calculus book, which wasn't written for children. Major issues were alcoholism, major child abuse/neglect, wife murder (semi-accidental, but there was Fred the baby performing mathematical calculations determining that his mother was about to die...) The other books have been fine, but I got rid of calculus. Seriously?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I remember being very turned off by PreA w/ Economics. Can't remember the details, because I got rid of the book, but I believe it was all about how the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery and was all about trade, taxes, etc. I also remember being *really* weirded out by some of those videos! I could never quite look at the books the same way again . . . One of my dds love the elementary books and used them up through PreA w/ Bio. The other dd didn't like them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I remember being very turned off by PreA w/ Economics. Can't remember the details, because I got rid of the book, but I believe it was all about how the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery and was all about trade, taxes, etc. The Prealgebra Econ book was what drove me to the brink as well. I'm the same as you in that I can't remember what the exact problem was (I think I was tired of hearing about the evils of communism), but somewhere in the middle I said no more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I should chime in again since I gave an opinion, and say that we only used the elementary books. It sounds like I should be glad that we never did the economics one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I remember being very turned off by PreA w/ Economics. Can't remember the details, because I got rid of the book, but I believe it was all about how the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery and was all about trade, taxes, etc. The Civil War part is just on a couple of pages, so a very small part of the book (just wanted to mention that for those who haven't used the book). IIRC it is the most problematic of the LOF books I've read, though I actually disliked Kidneys-Liver-Mineshaft more, which just seemed weak (felt hastily written, or w/e - just not fun enough), and which I'd probably pass on if I felt a kid was ready to move into Fractions after Jelly Beans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 The Civil War part is just on a couple of pages, so a very small part of the book (just wanted to mention that for those who haven't used the book). IIRC it is the most problematic of the LOF books I've read, though I actually disliked Kidneys-Liver-Mineshaft more, which just seemed weak (felt hastily written, or w/e - just not fun enough), and which I'd probably pass on if I felt a kid was ready to move into Fractions after Jelly Beans. Yeah, the K-L-M books weren't written when i used the series with older dd. We went to Fractions after Jelly Beans and it was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I disagree (to put it mildly) with parts of the Pre-Algebra with Economics text. After going back and forth on whether or not to use it, we decided to make it optional. If they want to do it, they have to check in with me before starting each chapter, so we can discuss it. I had to set aside some time to prepare for this, because my own thoughts on economics had come from various places and needed some tidying up. So far, one child has chosen to do the book. The other one skipped it, and seems to be doing fine in LOF Algebra. So -- thanks to Stan -- I've had to clarify my own understanding of economics, which is something I've been meaning to do for a long time. And I have a middle schooler who's not only heard of David Ricardo (for example), but can list some of the factors he ignored in his model. Not what I was expecting to cover this past year, and it was a pretty intense experience at the time; we probably wouldn't have stuck with the series if there were issues like this in the other books. Still, I'm glad we went ahead with it. YMMV, of course. :001_smile: And it can always be skipped. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaceeM Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Thank you all for the replies and clarification! We will most likely skip PA w/Econ but I will pre-read it first to see if there is any vital information I want to use from it. As for Dogs it seems we have the updated version with the info on the donation (thankfully, this is a super-sensitive kid). I'm a bit scared to watch those videos as I don't want my entire outlook on the series to change! I had a longer reply typed up but the forum ate it :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanDiegoMom Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I didn't read all of them, but I read a few with my son who read them between 6 and 8 years of age. The only one that really stood out in my mind (out of those early ones) was Decimals and Percents. Fred makes three mini robots, those three mini robots make a giant robot, the robot goes out into the football field at the university, and the military drops an atomic bomb on it. I found it's lighthearted treatment of nuclear weapons rather disturbing to read ... The whole section just weirded me out! My ds said he didn't like the giant knife falling on Fred's foot forcing him to go to the hospital. Apparently too gory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Seriously?!?! Calculus was written for college students, it was the first book (before the author envisioned a children's math series all about Fred!) The humor in it is, IMO, very...wacked. Fred is born to an extremely dysfunctional couple, his mother has no idea how to take care of him (doesn't feed him at all) and his father is an abusive alcoholic jerk. If memory serves, he pushes his wife to her death--It's been awhile since I skimmed the book and I'm not sure of the details, but something out falling several stories onto the cement rather than into the swimming pool (Fred is watching and calculating whether she will land in the pool or not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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