lilyandsparrow Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) My oldest (8) has had a love-hate relationship with math. She loved it when we first started homeschooling. We did Horizons for Kindergarten, but then first grade we switched to the K12 charter school which she loved--except the math. I think it made her cry every day. So, we ended up withdrawing in the spring and resumed with Horizons 1, and she loved math again. For second grade, she attended the local Lutheran school and thrived. This year, we moved states and so we have been homeschooling. We went back to Horizons and found that although she was in the top percentage for math among her peers at school, she was behind when it came to Horizon's grade levels for math. So, we had to skip back to Horizons 2. She has worked really hard and this year has completed Horizons 2 (both books) and is now half-way through Horizons 3, book 1. My plan was to have her continue through summer with math so by the start of next school year, she'd be at Horizons 4, for her 4th grade year. The problem is that I don't think the spiral approach is working for her anymore. When she was younger and had trouble focusing, the spiral approach kept her interest. However, as things have gotten more challenging, the spiral approach isn't giving her time to master concepts that are more challenging for her and she totally disengages. I'm not sure I want to continue with Horizons next year, but I'm not exactly sure where to go from here. Beast Academy looks promising but I'm not sure? I did have her do the pre-assessment for 3A and she did get 12/16. Part of the reason it appeals to me is that she remembers concepts and facts she hears from narrative. I've looked at Math U See and Life of Fred, but I'm just not sure. Edited April 30, 2016 by lilyandsparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basketcase Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I don't think Beast Academy is the best choice is she's struggling with mastering concepts. It's difficult - very challenging intellectually, and it's high-frustration for many kids. It's wonderful if your kid is bored, but that doesn't seem to be the problem here. Math-U-See is a mastery approach that might work for you. I'm sure other moms will have great suggestions! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 However, as things have gotten more challenging, she's not mastering the concepts and gets frustrated. I'm not sure I want to continue with Horizons next year, but I'm not exactly sure where to go from here. Beast Academy looks promising but I'm not sure? I'll let her try the assessments and the printables on the Beast Academy link before I buy the BA books http://www.beastacademy.com/resources/assessments.php 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF612 Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Would you do BA3 or 4? My son is doing 3 now. He's found books B and C to be just the right the kind of challenge, nothing too painful but not too easy. A was much harder on us all! Just be aware that I've heard others say the same thing so don't be discouraged if you start with 3A. Now I know nothing about level 4 since we're not there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Beast Academy is more challenging than Horizons and has less review. Your post seems to describe a kid who's struggling, so I'd lean toward something else, or else try slowing Horizons down to a normal speed so the concepts have more time to simmer. Some other mastery books mine have used with good results are Math in Focus and Rod and Staff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 MUS, math mammoth, both are more mastery. Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I suspect the issue is multiplication facts. If she has moved quickly through the 3rd grade book, she may have moved through the multiplication lessons faster than mastery. I would check that first. If that is the problem, simply close the book and work on multiplication for a while and then try the textbook again. Fwiw, based on your description, I am not sure BA would be the best option. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyandsparrow Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 I'll let her try the assessments and the printables on the Beast Academy link before I buy the BA books http://www.beastacademy.com/resources/assessments.php Thanks for the link, for some reason, I couldn't find that one. She did get 12/16 so by that measure she'd be okay to start with it I think--if we decided to go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyandsparrow Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 I suspect the issue is multiplication facts. If she has moved quickly through the 3rd grade book, she may have moved through the multiplication lessons faster than mastery. I would check that first. If that is the problem, simply close the book and work on multiplication for a while and then try the textbook again. Fwiw, based on your description, I am not sure BA would be the best option. Yes, it is primarily multiplication. We have slowed down some and focused more on multiplication memorization. She does alright with most of the other concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyandsparrow Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Would you do BA3 or 4? My son is doing 3 now. He's found books B and C to be just the right the kind of challenge, nothing too painful but not too easy. A was much harder on us all! Just be aware that I've heard others say the same thing so don't be discouraged if you start with 3A. Now I know nothing about level 4 since we're not there yet. That's good to know. We would do BA3. That's interesting that A was harder! I'll keep that in mind if we do decide to go this route. She saw me looking through the BA samples and got so excited. I told her she couldn't do it unless she could pass the pre-assessment test and she asked to do it. She barely passed with 12/16....so, maybe by the time she finished her Horizons book she'd be ready for 3A. I want her to be excited to do her math, or at the very least not to hate it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 I have had 7 kids go through that book. That is why I guessed it was the problem. I would not change programs. Close the book and play multiplication games. You can play war with a deck of cards. Each of you flip up 2 cards and the highest product wins. You can roll dice and race to a 1000. (Add your products and whoever gets to a 1000 first wins.) Once she has mastered her facts, go back to the book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternallytired Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 FWIW, my DD LOVES the BA Guide books (and initially wanted to do the work along with ODS), but she's seen ODS do the practice work and now has NO desire to do it yet. Even though it looks fun and appealing at first glance, a kid may not realize how much effort is involved in doing the work. BA assumes that you catch on to the concepts pretty much immediately and quickly jumps to stretching the concept. ODS intuitively understood all the math taught in RS B-C before I got around to teaching the concepts, and was asking for "hard math." If you have a kid like that--a kid who flourishes on challenge and doesn't get easily frustrated or fall apart when things get difficult/when they don't get the right answer the first time--then BA is the right math program. If you have a kid who struggles with math or a kid who needs repetition/practice or a kid who doesn't tolerate frustration well, you probably want to either steer clear of BA or use it as a supplement to stretch your child's tolerance for challenge. You know your child best, so you'll be the best to decide whether she fits the description. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyandsparrow Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 FWIW, my DD LOVES the BA Guide books (and initially wanted to do the work along with ODS), but she's seen ODS do the practice work and now has NO desire to do it yet. Even though it looks fun and appealing at first glance, a kid may not realize how much effort is involved in doing the work. BA assumes that you catch on to the concepts pretty much immediately and quickly jumps to stretching the concept. ODS intuitively understood all the math taught in RS B-C before I got around to teaching the concepts, and was asking for "hard math." If you have a kid like that--a kid who flourishes on challenge and doesn't get easily frustrated or fall apart when things get difficult/when they don't get the right answer the first time--then BA is the right math program. If you have a kid who struggles with math or a kid who needs repetition/practice or a kid who doesn't tolerate frustration well, you probably want to either steer clear of BA or use it as a supplement to stretch your child's tolerance for challenge. You know your child best, so you'll be the best to decide whether she fits the description. Thank you, that's very helpful. She doesn't tolerate frustration very well, so maybe if she really wants to try BA we'll just use it as a supplement to stretch her tolerance for challenge--as you so aptly put it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Yes, it is primarily multiplication. We have slowed down some and focused more on multiplication memorization. She does alright with most of the other concepts. My DS10 was slower in the multiplication table. He literally write out the entire multiplication table and then refer to it while doing his work. BA wasn't published until this kid did AoPS prealgebra without issues despite having to write out his multiplication table. He is also my crybaby but comically will work the problems out after his wailing. I have no way to predict whether your daughter would like BA enough to use it as the main curriculum. However my DS10 prefers to use the curriculum that least bore him and then use test prep to drill to improve speed. While both my boys use the same math curriculum, they use it in a way that feeds their way of learning. My DS10 used the blank chart in something like page 2 of this one http://www.sjusd.org/booksin/docs/Multiplication_Table_1-12.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 My DS10 was slower in the multiplication table. He literally write out the entire multiplication table and then refer to it while doing his work. BA wasn't published until this kid did AoPS prealgebra without issues despite having to write out his multiplication table. He is also my crybaby but comically will work the problems out after his wailing. I have no way to predict whether your daughter would like BA enough to use it as the main curriculum. However my DS10 prefers to use the curriculum that least bore him and then use test prep to drill to improve speed. While both my boys use the same math curriculum, they use it in a way that feeds their way of learning. My DS10 used the blank chart in something like page 2 of this one http://www.sjusd.org/booksin/docs/Multiplication_Table_1-12.pdf Yes. My ds can be quite easily frustrated but he loves math and he can refocus and get back to work on BA after a mini tantrum. He also has been slow on his multiplication tables. He keeps a multiplication table out and uses it while doing math. He's been using it all year and now he knows his facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 BA is not the best program for a kid with retention issues. While BA might look cute and provide challenge for kids who are bored, it has barely any repetition. We found that my son, who has excelled with SM challenging problems and IP, didn't retain a lot of what has been taught in BA. We still use it as a supplement though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanDiegoMom Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Singapore is mastery and more concrete than BA. My DS who is in Aops now did Singapore 2-5 and had a great foundation. My dd is doing BA now and loves it, but I am going to supplement with Singapore because I just think the Singapore bar model method might be better for concrete thinkers. Dd doesn't make the conceptual leaps my son did, and Singapore I think allows you to visualize things better in many respects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Singapore is mastery and more concrete than BA. My DS who is in Aops now did Singapore 2-5 and had a great foundation. My dd is doing BA now and loves it, but I am going to supplement with Singapore because I just think the Singapore bar model method might be better for concrete thinkers. Dd doesn't make the conceptual leaps my son did, and Singapore I think allows you to visualize things better in many respects. Yes it does! My DS just solved two pages of BA word problems by drawing SM diagrams. Thank you, Singapore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Math U see gamma was a life saver at this house. It made teaching multiplication easy for me and the kids. I've used it for the three older, and will for my little guy when he needs it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roseto27 Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Beast Academy not only won't help with this: the spiral approach isn't giving her time to master concepts that are more challenging for her and she totally disengages., it will actually likely make it worse. BA is designed to challenge kids who love math and to whom math concepts come intuitively. A child who is strong in math, but doesn't love it can slog through, but it isn't something I would recommend to a child who is struggling in math. Plus, you've identified that your daughter needs more review to solidify concepts and there is very little repetition and next to no review with BA. If the short spiral from Horizons isn't working for her, you could look at a longer spiral (like Abeka) or at a mastery based program (like Math Mammoth or Singapore, with MM having more repetition). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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