"Blue Lives Matter"

[Carrie12345]

When many BLM supporters actively called for the deaths of officers out on patrol, they went too far. When they called for the deaths of whites, they went too far. When they called for the burning of businesses and neighborhoods, they went too far.

 

They can't really come under the banner of "non-profit advocacy group."

 

When people call themselves something and then do things that go against that something's cause, I don't blame the cause.

[LucyStoner]

It's really odd to me that my explanation given in #30

 

Maybe those of us who know police officers, sheriffs, and troopers who have homes, children, and loved ones, and who are nice, would appreciate some acknowledgement that the job they do takes a terrible toll on them. Of course, some of them are not nice, nor honest, and they do need to be weeded out and held accountable; but, they're not all like that, and I would not want to live in a country without them.

Why are you assuming that BLM allies don't know, love and appreciate sworn officers of the law? I can't speak for all but I most certainly personally know and support cops. I also have worked closely with several on nonprofit efforts relative to post release programs over the years.

 

Equating all members of BLM with would be cop killers is as ridiculous and equating all cops with those who abuse their position or kill without legit provocation. Also, people who were out to kill cops randomly predate BLM.

Edited April 29, 2016 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

When many BLM supporters actively called for the deaths of officers out on patrol, they went too far. When they called for the deaths of whites, they went too far. When they called for the burning of businesses and neighborhoods, they went too far.

 

They can't really come under the banner of "non-profit advocacy group."

Please source such claims. Many? How many? When and where? I suspect that, unlike myself, you have never been to a BLM event or rally.

[Mimm]

Ok, so using the fish thing... I am an old earth Christian and while I've never seen one, I think a Darwin fish sounds great! I don't think of it as mocking Christians. For me (and for most Christians I know, I'd never hear of YE till I came here) science and Christianity are not at odds. Using the symbols brings both pieces of truth together.

 

 

I'm a Christian who accepts evolution as truth. The Darwin fish is eating the Christian fish. It's not a peaceful marriage of ideas but definitely a mocking or derogatory symbol. I have actually seen it on cars with tolerance bumper stickers. :huh:

[LucyStoner]

I'm a Christian who accepts evolution as truth. The Darwin fish is eating the Christian fish. It's not a peaceful marriage of ideas but definitely a mocking or derogatory symbol. I have actually seen it on cars with tolerance bumper stickers. :huh:

There are several versions of this fish. Some are just a plain fish with feet. Others are a footed fish with the word Darwin in the middle. Those are the two I see most often. Not the eating one.

[Minerva]

Blue Lives Matter? Could they have picked a more offensive term? I sympathize with the sentiment but the appropriation of language is offensive. 

[Carrie12345]

I did not say that BLM members were appalling. I said that the fact that they were calling for the deaths of officers was appalling.

 

If it helps anyone (and I'm quoting just to give reference,) I never blame Christians when people kill in the name of Christianity.

[LucyStoner]

It's really odd to me that my explanation given in #30 was taken to be mocking, bizarre, or hateful.

 

Of course, some of them are not nice, nor honest, and they do need to be weeded out and held accountable; but, they're not all like that, and I would not want to live in a country without them.

So bad police are bad apples and not reflective of the entire group. Ok.

 

 

When many BLM supporters actively called for the deaths of officers out on patrol, they went too far. When they called for the deaths of whites, they went too far. When they called for the burning of businesses and neighborhoods, they went too far.

 

They can't really come under the banner of "non-profit advocacy group."

Yet bad people you associate with BLM or do associate with BLM reflect that the entire group is, in your words, a racist hate organization? That all BLM members are to be castigated for things they didn't personally do or support?

 

To restate your position you are willing to hold the entire umbrella group of BLM responsible for the negative and appalling actions of a few. But at the same time, police should not be held accountable as a group for the negative and appalling actions within their ranks?

 

So is, or is not, any group responsible for the actions of bad apples?

 

Your position IS bizarre in its inconsistency. At best, it's a double standard but frankly, it's pretty clearly more than that.

Edited April 29, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Mimm]

There are several versions of this fish. Some are just a plain fish with feet. Others are a footed fish with the word Darwin in the middle. Those are the two I see most often. Not the eating one.

 

Oh ok. I think the only version I've seen is the fish with feet eating the Christian fish.

[Katy]

Why are you assuming that BLM allies don't know, love and appreciate sworn officers of the law? I can't speak for all but I most certainly personally know and support cops. I also have worked closely with several on nonprofit efforts relative to post release programs over the years.

 

Equating all members of BLM with would be cop killers is as ridiculous and equating all cops with those who abuse their position or kill without legit provocation. Also, people who were out to kill cops randomly predate BLM.

 

I heard this sort of thing repeatedly one night on Fox News when I was at a relative's house.  It was Bill O'Reilly & Megyn Kelly's shows, and I don't remember how long ago.  The last time there was the threat of riots in St Louis. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I see it differently. The very long term trend of unprosecuted violence against black people and especially young black males by police, combined with rapidly developing technologies such as body cameras and dashboard cams, has lead to media attention and very justified anger. Some of the anger has been channeled into a political movement, BLM, and some has turned into aggression against the police which is awful.

I don't see how this is 'differently' from what I said.  For what it's worth, I agree with this entirely.  In fact, I view as a restatement of most of what I said.

[Carol in Cal.]

Please source such claims. Many? How many? When and where? I suspect that, unlike myself, you have never been to a BLM event or rally.

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and there were comments like this in our facebook feed locally from BLM interviews having to do with the repeated blockades of the major freeway through Oakland and of a major bridge here.  They were posted appreciatively by friends of mine.  I can't give you a citation but I distinctly remember seeing them within the last 6 months, more than once.

 

Again, I'm sympathetic with the thrust of BLM, but there is definitely an edge like that in some of the rhetoric.

[LucyStoner]

I have a friend who was a police officer. He quit because he felt that the ongoing training was getting too militarized and that he wasn't comfortable with the self protecting culture that supported even bad apples. He is now in another line of work.

[LucyStoner]

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and there were comments like this in our facebook feed locally from BLM interviews having to do with the repeated blockades of the major freeway through Oakland and of a major bridge here. They were posted appreciatively by friends of mine. I can't give you a citation but I distinctly remember seeing them within the last 6 months, more than once.

 

Again, I'm sympathetic with the thrust of BLM, but there is definitely an edge like that in some of the rhetoric.

I've seen comments like that too. I however tend to hear a far different message in person and coming from victims' families. The comments of some people should not be blamed on the group as a whole or get it dismissed as a "hate group". I also think that some media outlets pan to the worst comments over covering the clearly peaceful majority. What gets more clicks? The idiot who sets a fire or threatens to kill a cop. Not the elderly black grandmas.

 

As for shutting down the freeway, by all means do. As for snatching the mic from white presidential candidates, by all means do. What the BLM movement seeks to fight is ugly and the means by which the issue can be highlighted and hopefully solved is not going to be polite or comfortably digested by those who accept white privilege as the unchallenged norm. It can be nonviolent but it can't be passive or willing to quietly wait for change. People are dying.

Edited April 29, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Farrar]

Oh ok. I think the only version I've seen is the fish with feet eating the Christian fish.

 

If I do a search for "Darwin fish" on Google images, I have to scroll before I find one that's the one eating the Christian fish and even then it's still surrounded by the ones that are just the fish. I have seen that one a few times, but not often.

[mamiof5]

No idea about the Black Lives Matter movement/ideology/slogan? (Not even sure what it is). Haven't heard about the Blue Lives Matter either. Wouldn't it be just easier to respect ALL life? Black, yellow white, now blue...it doesn't matter. A human life is a human life, regardless of color, race, gender etc.

[Carol in Cal.]

For those who haven't seen the background of the Christian fish, the word for fish in Greek is an acronym for the words:

Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior

 

which is a more or less creedal statement of Christian views of Jesus.

 

So the fish was used in ancient times as a Christian symbol--in the earliest days it was far more common than the cross.

[Carrie12345]

No idea about the Black Lives Matter movement/ideology/slogan? (Not even sure what it is). Haven't heard about the Blue Lives Matter either. Wouldn't it be just easier to respect ALL life? Black, yellow white, now blue...it doesn't matter. A human life is a human life, regardless of color, race, gender etc.

 

A rational mind might think so.  You can't just pretend reality away, though.

[Carol in Cal.]

Seriously though, who cares about the fish ? I see the Jesus fish everywhere and I've seen the Darwin fish and on the scale of things to care about it doesn't make a good analogy for talking about BLM.  A mildly mocking sticker...a 13 year old, shot for playing while black...a mildly mocking sticker...nope.

I care about the fish.  I don't like having my most fundamental beliefs mocked, and I don't mock those of others either.  Around here those bumper stickers are not mildly mocking, either; they are used by people who are quite hateful in conversation. 

 

But in general, I think that mockery is a cheap shot form of humor, and I don't care for it.  Good humor doesn't need mockery to be funny.

[Carol in Cal.]

Everyone knows what the fish means.

 

 

Not according to earlier comments in this thread.

[Farrar]

A useful look at BLM and police deaths:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-lives-matter-violence-cops_us_55e77d82e4b0c818f61a9de8

 

The one thing I'd say is that op-ed was from late last year. Police deaths are actually up this year in 2016. But the other points all still stand.

 

It's possible, though we don't know for sure, that BLM bringing to light how many innocent people are killed by the police is inciting some people on the fringe to attack the police more. But, what's the solution to that? That BLM should shut up and the black community should just take the deaths of their children and loved ones in order to protect police? Because that seems absurd. Again, keeping in mind that while, yes, a few people on the fringes have called for violence, BLM itself has not, only for justice. It seems to me that the best way to end any violence against the police is for police departments to embrace the message that BLM has about better policing, more justice, less profiling, more investigations of the "bad eggs", better training and try to do better. That protects communities and protects the police. Better for everyone.

[LucyStoner]

No idea about the Black Lives Matter movement/ideology/slogan? (Not even sure what it is). Haven't heard about the Blue Lives Matter either. Wouldn't it be just easier to respect ALL life? Black, yellow white, now blue...it doesn't matter. A human life is a human life, regardless of color, race, gender etc.

It is easier to pretend the world is equally safe for all lives, regardless of skin color. Sadly, it is not. BLM isn't about saying that black life is more worthy of respect or consideration. It's about pointing out that comparatively, white lives ARE given more respect and consideration by many of the institutions that everyone pays for and should get to count on equal protection from.

 

Again, my white sons matter. But my black nephews are more likely to be treated like they don't matter or even killed. Until my nephews enjoy the same benefit of the doubt and safety as my sons do, the BLM movement really does matter. A lot.

[Slache]

The fish has nothing to do with a privileged group appropriating the name referring to their victims.

I don't know this for sure, but I believe the name was chosen as a response to the violence being committed in the name of Black Lives Matter. Again, it's saying blue lives matter too, not to marginalize any other group or people, just stop killing us because we matter as much as you do.

[LucyStoner]

I don't know this for sure, but I believe the name was chosen as a response to the violence being committed in the name of Black Lives Matter. Again, it's saying blue lives matter too, not to marginalize any other group or people, just stop killing us because we matter as much as you do.

If the police, as a group (because I know many great individuals) stopped reflexively covering the butts of officers who, either due to poor training, bias, culture or crappy disposition for police work, killed people for being brown, I'd be more likely to believe this wasn't about marginalizing and denigrating Black Lives Matter and black people in general.

 

The Blue Lives Matter stuff essentially reads to me an attempt to deflect attention from the fact that yeah, some police are being caught on camera needlessly killing people. The All Lives Matter stuff reads to me as either tone deaf pollyannaism or white people refusing to realize that like it or not, bias and white privilege benefits us white people regardless of if we want it to or not.

 

As Farrar laid out, the death of a police officer is a grave issue and is treated (rightfully so) as a grave issue. The death of black (and other minority) people at the hands of cops or in some instances wannabe cops, is a grave issue but for a long time has not been treated as such by the police or court system.

 

Police groups have long advocated for police and for the families of officers killed in the line of duty. They can do that WITHOUT co-opting the language of a timely and crucial movement. It's disrespectful at the very best and for some, it's more than that.

Edited April 29, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Guest]

No idea about the Black Lives Matter movement/ideology/slogan? (Not even sure what it is). Haven't heard about the Blue Lives Matter either. Wouldn't it be just easier to respect ALL life? Black, yellow white, now blue...it doesn't matter. A human life is a human life, regardless of color, race, gender etc.

I recall Hillary Clinton trying to say that at a rally and getting slammed for it. The drawbacks of identity politics, I suppose.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I recall Hillary Clinton trying to say that at a rally and getting slammed for it. The drawbacks of identity politics, I suppose.

When one group is being targeted disproportionately, trying to change the discussion to everyone misses the point.

[LucyStoner]

I recall Hillary Clinton trying to say that at a rally and getting slammed for it. The drawbacks of identity politics, I suppose.

Can anyone give me an example of politics that isn't in some way tied to some sort of identity? I doubt it. But I am open to hearing examples.

Edited April 29, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Daria]

No idea about the Black Lives Matter movement/ideology/slogan? (Not even sure what it is). Haven't heard about the Blue Lives Matter either. Wouldn't it be just easier to respect ALL life? Black, yellow white, now blue...it doesn't matter. A human life is a human life, regardless of color, race, gender etc.

 

Yes, all lives matter.  No one disagrees with that.  

 

However, I want you to imagine that your child was facing a life threatening illness.  One that he might survive, but that might kill him at any moment.  You went to your local politician and asked them about funding for research and treatment.  You said to him "What are you going to do about children with X?" and he said "Well, I think all children matter.  I value the health of all children.  A child is a child, regardless of diagnosis.  I'd like to buy apples for all the little ones."  Would you feel comforted?  

 

Racism is a disease that threatens my child's life.  As the parent of an African American youth, I worry every time my child leaves my sight.  I particularly worry because he's a kid with mental illness, and I know from experience that behavior that looks like "panic attack" in a white boy, will be read as "drug user" in a black boy.  I also know that many people in this country, and on this thread, believe that my child only deserves to survive to adulthood if he's perfect.  Because black boys aren't allowed to make mistakes.  One mistake turns them into a criminal who "breaks the law" or "doesn't follow police directions", and whose life is forfeit.  And while my kid is awesome, and wonderful, he's also a 17 year old boy and I can't guarantee that just one time he might not make a stupid decision.  

[Carol in Cal.]

 

 

You're entitled to care personally. It's just a bit rich to equate it with BLM. 

 

 

And I have not.  How about you double check your accusations before you make them?

 

What I have actually said in this thread is that I'm pretty sympathetic to BLM.  Knock off the personal attacks, please.

[mamiof5]

It is easier to pretend the world is equally safe for all lives, regardless of skin color. Sadly, it is not. BLM isn't about saying that black life is more worthy of respect or consideration. It's about pointing out that comparatively, white lives ARE given more respect and consideration by many of the institutions that everyone pays for and should get to count on equal protection from.

 

Again, my white sons matter. But my black nephews are more likely to be treated like they don't matter or even killed. Until my nephews enjoy the same benefit of the doubt and safety as my sons do, the BLM movement really does matter. A lot.

I'm sure it matters. It would be great that every life was respected, regardless of color. And I am sure it also depends on where you are in the world (location wise). In some places black folks feel unsafe, in others white people are not safe, somewhere else maybe Hispanics don't feel safe? You name it. There's disrespect of human life all over the world. White, black, Caucasian...it's just all over :(

[mamiof5]

I recall Hillary Clinton trying to say that at a rally and getting slammed for it. The drawbacks of identity politics, I suppose.

:( that's too bad. I know it's not what happens in our world, but it should

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm sure it matters. It would be great that every life was respected, regardless of color. And I am sure it also depends on where you are in the world (location wise). In some places black folks feel unsafe, in others white people are not safe, somewhere else maybe Hispanics don't feel safe? You name it. There's disrespect of human life all over the world. White, black, Caucasian...it's just all over :(

 

There is some truth to this, but it can be used to disguise a truth that is local and specific in the US (not that you're necessarily trying to do this).  And that truth is that in most of our country, black people are in more danger from the powers that be than white people are, and much more likely to be treated unjustly as well.  And that is not right.  That is not what I pay taxes for.  That is not the American ideal.  We need to fix this.

 

ETA:  And a good start is to be clear about the pattern.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Carol in Cal.

[mamiof5]

Yes, all lives matter. No one disagrees with that.

 

However, I want you to imagine that your child was facing a life threatening illness. One that he might survive, but that might kill him at any moment. You went to your local politician and asked them about funding for research and treatment. You said to him "What are you going to do about children with X?" and he said "Well, I think all children matter. I value the health of all children. A child is a child, regardless of diagnosis. I'd like to buy apples for all the little ones." Would you feel comforted?

 

Racism is a disease that threatens my child's life. As the parent of an African American youth, I worry every time my child leaves my sight. I particularly worry because he's a kid with mental illness, and I know from experience that behavior that looks like "panic attack" in a white boy, will be read as "drug user" in a black boy. I also know that many people in this country, and on this thread, believe that my child only deserves to survive to adulthood if he's perfect. Because black boys aren't allowed to make mistakes. One mistake turns them into a criminal who "breaks the law" or "doesn't follow police directions", and whose life is forfeit. And while my kid is awesome, and wonderful, he's also a 17 year old boy and I can't guarantee that just one time he might not make a stupid decision.

Ii is a very unfortunate situation. Our kids should be held responsible for their actions, regardless of skin color. I always pray for worlds' peace, and a higher increase in respect for human life, ALL human life.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I'm sure it matters. It would be great that every life was respected, regardless of color. And I am sure it also depends on where you are in the world (location wise). In some places black folks feel unsafe, in others white people are not safe, somewhere else maybe Hispanics don't feel safe? You name it. There's disrespect of human life all over the world. White, black, Caucasian...it's just all over :(

Which doesn't excuse ignoring obvious injustice where we see it.

[LucyStoner]

I'm sure it matters. It would be great that every life was respected, regardless of color. And I am sure it also depends on where you are in the world (location wise). In some places black folks feel unsafe, in others white people are not safe, somewhere else maybe Hispanics don't feel safe? You name it. There's disrespect of human life all over the world. White, black, Caucasian...it's just all over :(

You seem to have good intent but your words highlight the issue of false equivalency. Where in the US are whites as vulnerable to the police as blacks are? The fact that injustice exists everywhere doesn't make any one injustice less of a problem anywhere.

[Caroline]

I'm sure it matters. It would be great that every life was respected, regardless of color. And I am sure it also depends on where you are in the world (location wise). In some places black folks feel unsafe, in others white people are not safe, somewhere else maybe Hispanics don't feel safe? You name it. There's disrespect of human life all over the world. White, black, Caucasian...it's just all over :(

In your post you say that black people and Hispanic people feel unsafe, but that white people actually are unsafe.

[Carol in Cal.]

OK, guys, I admit it--I'm old.  In my 50s.  I'm old enough to be contemporary with the often pushed slogan of the 70's that 'If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.'  And I endorse that fully, and apply it to the BLM issue.

 

I think that it behooves all Americans to consider how to be part of the solution, especially those of us of European background.  I'm not saying this out of white guilt or because I'm taking responsibility for things that were done in our country before any of my family members were even part of it.  I'm saying it because I am a proud American citizen who believes that our country is not truly living up to our ideals, and that that is unacceptable; and because I am a humble Christian who believes that God loves all of us and wants us to show and live out His Word.

 

I think that we should consider how to be 'part of the solution'.  My view is that the way to do this is:

1.  Inform ourselves.  We are all heavy readers.  We should include in our reading books about African American experience in this country, and we should be prepared to quote them.  Want a list?  Just ask. 

2.  Speak up.  I NEVER let anyone make false generalizations about African Americans in my presence without an argument. 

3.  Speak up #2.   I never let someone say anything that assumes me to be complicit in a racist comment.

4.  Recognize that a lot of white people don't see racist behavior, simply because it is not displayed in their presence, and that that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.  If you know of a personal example, quote it.  Speak up.

5.  Don't be the spokesperson for BLM just because you're sympathetic.  State your sympathy and point to actual spokespeople or statements.  Be careful not to coopt at all.

6.  Welcome and escort and expect good treatment of African American friends and acquaintances no matter what.  This is how to be a Good White Friend (Americanah).  Don't bring up race to them.  Let them do it if they want to.  They don't have the option of 'taking a break' from dealing with racial stuff like we do.  We shouldn't force it down their throats, even in genuine sympathy.

7.  Don't expect a medal for any of this.  It's not heroic behavior.  It's just how we should be as Americans, and secondarily as Christians.  Expect to be taken for granted.  Don't take credit.  Be a good person as a matter of course.

 

Do we all have to march?  Nope.  Is marching a good idea?  I think so, sometimes, yes, I do.

[Greta]

My concern is this:  who polices the police in this country?  The police!  I don't know whose brilliant idea that was, but it was doomed from the beginning to result in abuse and corruption.  And black people have paid the bulk of the price for that abuse and corruption.  Let's not kid ourselves about that.  So now we have a movement in response to that incredibly unjust situation, and what is the police response to that movement?  "Blue lives matter"???  That sounds to me like an attempt to deflect attention away from the problems that led to this horrible situation in the first place, and paint themselves as the victims.  And yes, of course I realize that individuals officers have been the victims of horrible, inexcusable violence.  I'm not trying to sweep that under the rug or say it doesn't matter.  My point is that that response seems to me like they are trying really hard to sweep the injustices committed by the police under the rug and say they don't matter. 

 

There are a lot of good cops out there who are trying so hard to serve the public good and are even willing to put their own safety and lives at risk to do so.  They are heroes.  

 

There are some truly atrocious, horrible cops out there who use their badges as licenses to bully, rape, and kill.

 

The good cops need to do a better job of weeding out the bad cops.  They accepted responsibility for that.  That's what Internal Affairs is supposed to do.  They have failed miserably.  It's time for a change.  And I'd like to see some of those good cops saying, "you know, this isn't working. We need an EXTERNAL, independent organization to handle allegations of misconduct by the police."  THAT would impress me.  "Blue lives matter" does not.

[City Mouse]

changed my mind

Edited April 30, 2016 by City Mouse

[Tanaqui]

And black people have paid the bulk of the price for that abuse and corruption.

 

Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans (who actually have the highest per capita rate of police shootings), and the mentally ill or neurodiverse. (As an autistic, let me tell you, every time an autistic gets shot I get to hear all about it from everybody I know.)

 

Of course, these groups aren't mutually exclusive. You can be Hispanic and Black and/or Native at the same time, and people of all ethnicities can be neurodivergent. (Though if you're not white, you're much more likely to be undiagnosed and to be receiving inadequate assistance and/or treatment.)

 

Here's something else, too. We're not just talking about police shootings on the street. We're talking about a little girl killed in her own home. We're talking about people being kicked out of their own homes on nonsense charges - or no charges at all, hello, "nuisance abatement".

 

Some of you talk about how your friends who are cops are great guys. I'm glad to hear it. Maybe when you all see the cops at your door, you think "Terrific! Here comes Officer Friendly to give the kiddies lollipops and teach them how to cross the street!" I'm glad to hear it. Wouldn't have it any other way.

 

But there are lots of people out there who have every reason to distrust the police. (Ever hear of civil asset forfeiture? It's hard to get data on that, but no surprise, the Washington Post found a definite correlation between race and odds of losing goods to the cops.)

 

So yeah, those people tell their kids to avoid contact with the police. Not because they hate all the dirty pigs, but because they love their children and want them to stay alive, and hopefully to preserve their dignity. You try loving the cops when every time you see them, they wanna frisk you.

 

The cops in your life are wonderful? Okay, so what? I don't know about you, but I'd feel a lot more sanguine about the police if, when these stories came out, we didn't see them closing ranks every time with "oh, but most cops are wonderful, it's just one or two bad elements, why do you hate the police?" They'd improve their image and their policing if they'd throw out those "exceptions" without arguing about how really, they're not all bad. I don't want to hear about some little 12 year old kid was oh so threatening he had to be shot. I want to hear about why the cop was so threatening he had to shoot after two seconds, kid didn't even have time to move.

[Tanaqui]

Oh, and with regards to how ALL lives matter - quit being so sanctimonious. It's not about you.

[Greta]

Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans (who actually have the highest per capita rate of police shootings), and the mentally ill or neurodiverse. (As an autistic, let me tell you, every time an autistic gets shot I get to hear all about it from everybody I know.)

You're absolutely right. And since I know that, I have no excuse for not wording my post more thoughtfully.

 

I don't know about you, but I'd feel a lot more sanguine about the police if, when these stories came out, we didn't see them closing ranks every time with "oh, but most cops are wonderful, it's just one or two bad elements, why do you hate the police?" They'd improve their image and their policing if they'd throw out those "exceptions" without arguing about how really, they're not all bad.

Exactly! The truth is, I kind of idolize the police a bit. I've had nothing but good experiences with them, and I think that line of work is truly a noble calling. And that's why it upsets me so much to read stories of such horrifying abuses of power by the police. And the response by good decent cops has been largely disappointing to say the least. So now the whole profession is tainted, not by the few bad apples, but by the apathy so many of the good ones.

[mamiof5]

There is some truth to this, but it can be used to disguise a truth that is local and specific in the US (not that you're necessarily trying to do this). And that truth is that in most of our country, black people are in more danger from the powers that be than white people are, and much more likely to be treated unjustly as well. And that is not right. That is not what I pay taxes for. That is not the American ideal. We need to fix this.

 

ETA: And a good start is to be clear about the pattern.

Yeah, not trying to disguise it, by any means. Nor to try to make light of the situation either. I really find it sad, and don't have an idea what the solution could be. The way I look at it? There's good people, and also bad, regardless of skin color, nationality etc. For example, I'm Hispanic... try not to make to much fuss about it. Why? Because I don't like anyone to think I am playing the "Latino" card. Let's be honest, many Hispanics living in the USA don't care a lot about the country, they are just here for the money. Some of them even think the US "owes them", since part of our land used to belong to a Hispanic country. They have certain feeling of " entitlement" that I can't stand. They behave certain way (very disrespectful at times) and have little respect for "white" authority. It's sad, and in a way, their behavior affects the entire Hispanic population leaving in the US. A Hispanic leaving in a "white" neighborhood might feel not safe, neglected etc. But it could go the other way around, a white family leaving in a mostly Hispanic neighborhood could feel the same way. And if a Hispanic happens to commit a crime, it hurts negatively all Hispanics. If a white person commits a crime against a Hispanic? Likewise, whites would be labeled as racists. Some Hispanics are good people, some are not, and the same goes in every ethnical group. There are good and bad apples everywhere. Back to the OP subject, not good for a black person to hurt a white one (police officer, whatever the situation), AND, viceversa, not good for a white person to hurt a black person. It's not OK for anyone to hurt another human being :( It's just so sad!! Really, no idea what the solution could be to such a mess. It's not only blacks, or white people...many races/ethnical groups are targeted in the US (and I'm sure all over the world as well)

[mamiof5]

In your post you say that black people and Hispanic people feel unsafe, but that white people actually are unsafe.

My bad. Use feel instead of are for white people. Feel? Are? Both could be true depending on the situation. Didn't purposely use different words.

[Carrie12345]

their behavior affects the entire Hispanic population leaving in the US.

 

I am deeply saddened that (what I'm getting from your post is) this impacts your sense of personal/cultural identity.

 

See, part of my white privilege is that, when white people do bad things, it isn't a reflection on me.  White people do bad things all. the. time., but nobody ever takes it out on me. Nobody ever makes assumptions about me.  Nobody treats me as lesser. I never feel a need to downplay who I am or what I look like.  I'm not afraid of injustice.

[Daria]

Our kids should be held responsible for their actions, regardless of skin color.

I wrote a post about my fear that my child might suffer a medical emergency and be killed for it, and you responded with this.

 

Is that really what you think the police are doing in these cases? "Holding kids responsible?"

[MercyA]

I think some of you are being a little hard on mamiof5. I understand and agree with your sentiments, and your comments might be entirely appropriate directed at a Fox-News-as-Gospel type person. However, mamiof5 has admitted that she knows very little about the Black Lives Matter or the Blue Lives Matter movements. I seriously doubt she's being sanctimonious. She's accepted criticism graciously. I have every reason to believe she's entirely sincere when she says, "It's not OK for anyone to hurt another human being." I wish more people had that attitude.

[poppy]

I think it's entirely possible to not like Black Lives Matter but still think Blue Lives Matter is in really poor taste.

 

I know the idea is to get sympathy, support, awareness for officers who risk their lives......which is a good idea. Just, pick ANY other motto.  Because when I see it, I don't see the sacrifice. I just see jeering.

Edited April 30, 2016 by poppy

[Carol in Cal.]

 

I know the idea is to get sympathy, support, awareness for officers who risk their lives......which is a good idea. 

See, I don't think it's derivative like that.

I think it's a specific response to the execution killings--not typical 'killed in the line of duty' stuff, but people who have in the past year or so specifically targetted police officers and ambushed them because they were police officers.

[Tanaqui]

I have every reason to believe she's entirely sincere when she says, "It's not OK for anyone to hurt another human being." I wish more people had that attitude.

 

Everybody professes that attitude. It's anodyne to the point of offensiveness, as stating it again and again makes it sound like you think the rest of us think it's okay to murder with impunity.