Seeking online, easy to use, complete homeschooling curriculum.

[epi]

We have been trying to homeschool for the last two years but it's really not working. Our kids (entering grades 5, 2, K for 2016-7) play on their computers, and very little schoolwork gets done. The older two are quite advanced and so haven't fallen behind (yet) but we can't continue like this. They have not taken to the textbook type materials we got (which we thought might be academically better quality than something online) and it seems we should be going with an online program that they might prefer and be willing to do.

What we are seeking is:
a mostly or completely online program
covers most or all (core) subjects
a full (stand alone) program in those subjects
includes instruction, not just practice questions,
monitors progress/activity so parents can see schoolwork is getting done
enjoyable for children so they'll be more likely to want to do it, and not too onerous for parents who can't devote large amounts of time to homeschooling
not too expensive (and preferably secular).

I found
time4learning.com
which would cost $20+$15+$15 per month for 3 students which is not that cheap but we'd be okay with it. Various reviews I read suggest it is academically just okay, not really great, but at this point we're really desperate, and just need something educational our children will participate in to make some academic process for the time being.

Are there other similar programs we should know about, before selecting one?

I also saw things like ixl.com which are even cheaper, and quite comprehensive in subjects covered, but which as far as I could tell, lacked instruction of the material.

I found some lists
http://www.homeschoolreviews.com/reviews/curriculum/default.aspx?id=142
http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/518534-list-of-popular-curricula-for-k-8/
but I know almost nothing about anything in those lists.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or advice.
 

[HomeAgain]

My first thought is unplug the computer.  You're setting yourself up for failure by looking at wants, not needs, and it starts to sound like bribing or tricking them into schoolwork.  There is a time for everything, and children should learn how to set aside time for school and become self-disciplined in the matter.  It takes a lot of guidance, but it's worth it in the end.

 

My second thought is if you don't have the time to devote to teaching, you may want to look at other options that will still give your children that opportunity to build  self-discipline.

[OneStepAtATime]

Can you share what your goal for homeschooling in the first place is?

 

Also, how were you using the material you had chosen before? Were you teaching them, working with them, reviewing with them? Or expecting them to function pretty independently? Were they allowed and encouraged and supported with any interest led learning that might keep them engaged?

 

Do they have outside activities? Are they working on any hobbies? Do they see friends?

 

Maybe you could review your goals/reasons for choosing homeschooling and try to determine exactly why things are failing. Do you actually have the hours needed for prep work and teaching? I will be honest, all computer based can get old and they may not retain as much. Do you have the self discipline necessary to help your children stay on task in a positive learning environment? Do your children perhaps need more hands on and or discussion based learning to keep them engaged?

 

You could look at something like Switched on Schoolhouse. Teaching Textbooks is an option for math.

 

Honestly, though, before investing any money I would be examine in detail, and would try to be completely honest with myself, why the past two years didn't work and what my goals are for homeschooling.

[Insertcreativenamehere]

I have kids who would prefer to play on their devices all day too, but we don't allow that during the school day. It's a matter of discipline. If they were in a public or private school, they wouldn't be allowed to play on their screens all day, either. 

 

We use an app called Screen Time Labs that limits or shuts down their access during certain times (including school hours and bedtime.) With this app, they can also earn screen time after school for chores or tasks. Their ability to have screen time at all depends on how well they work during the school day. You might want to look at it; it's very reasonably-priced and available for both Android and Apple devices (although not computers -- you might want to look at Qustodio for that, as it covers more devices.)

 

 

[Jilectan]

I had the same problem and, frankly, it still pops up from time to time. What I do is take their games away for a week, then let them earn them back with good behavior. They are also not allowed to play games until they finish school work. My kids are almost 12, 10 and 6.

[featherhead]

What sort of curriculum are you trying to use right now? There is so much out there, and some is great, but some really isn't. Also, some kids do better with different types of curriculum. For now, I agree with the previous posters, I would cut the computers and any other devices. Once they show you consistently they can do school work, then they earn it back, a little at a time. Also, grade 2 and K kids still need a lot of teaching. They usually cannot do it all independently.

[EmseB]

Honestly what jumps out at me is homeschooling with "parents who can't devote large amounts of time to homeschooling".

 

That puzzles me. I get there are a lot of different ways to homeschool, but at your kids' ages, any homeschooling is going to require a lot of investment from you in the form of time.

[EmseB]

For kindy and 2nd especially, there's a need for "at elbow" time with a teacher if you're doing seat work. There's no way around it.

 

And if a 5th grader has spent the last two years developing bad or no work habits, they are going to require a lot of time with a dedicated teacher to remidiate those habits.

[SilverMoon]

For the 5th grader Easy Peasy comes to mind, but it requires a kid who wants to get it done. I know of nothing independent for a K and 2nd grader because those ages are still learning the skills they need to be successful in independent work.

 

In my experience, nothing will work if you don't first knuckle down and work on disciplining the whole household into "work first then play" days. Forbid computer usage and video games until the all school work for the day and a house task have been completed. Then enforce it. Remove cords, remove entire devices, add passwords, whatever it takes.

[Guest]

K12---sibling discounts and multiple subject discounts. Payment plans.

Skip the horrid math, though.

 

 

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[fairy4tmama]

It sounds like an on-line charter might be the option that best fits your needs. I agree with others up thread that looking at why you are homeschooling and what your goals are will help you better determine a path for your family. (I just want to say there is no judgement here it's just that there are such a myriad of reasons to homeschool and that really determines what might best work for a family)

[EmseB]

K12---sibling discounts and multiple subject discounts. Payment plans.

Skip the horrid math, though.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From what I've heard k12 is fairly parent intensive and not generally a good fit for little guys.

[epi]

OP here. Thanks for all the comments. I'll be back later with a more detailed response.

 

[Guest]

From what I've heard k12 is fairly parent intensive and not generally a good fit for little guys.

For younger kids, it is parent intensive. Older kids are independent

[City Mouse]

Connections Academy is also very parent intensive at the elementary level.

[mamamoose]

We don't allow screen time until 4:00 and then only 45 minutes. It's just that simple. My son is completely addicted and I'm getting one of those apps because it's a daily argument! He bugs me nonstop all day, but I stick to it!

[epi]

OP here. Thanks for all the comments.

I'll get to the other questions, but again I do want to hear about options for "comprehensive" online curricula. I found
time4learning.com
but I want to hear about other options of this type.

Background: I work, wife doesn't, so even though I can sometimes work at home, I am limited in my time.

We did try free virtual school (K12.com) with our oldest, DS10, before switching to homeschooling. (B&M school is not a good option here for various reasons, so we've been left with homeschooling as the only remaining option.) Doing virtual school did show that DS10 was able to work through a bunch of school tasks put before him, but the material was just okay, not great, and virtual school involves a lot of wasted time for child and parent, with many unnecessary educational and non-educational tasks to deal with. It convinced us that we could do better, more efficiently, with better materials, with regular homeschooling. I still believe that's true in theory, with the right materials, even if it hasn't turned out in practice yet.

For DS10(grade 4) we got Michael Clay Thompson for ELA. DS10 read some a couple of times, and thought it was fun, but my wife expected him to work alone and wasn't willing to spend any time on it, so it was abandoned. We also got various Art of Problem Solving books. DS10 has worked through some parts of them, but there is too little progress through the books for this to be viable. We also got some general science and history books (not curricula) to read, but they went barely touched. The problem seems to be that he doesn't like learning from books. He prefers online. For example, on his own initiative, he found various math websites and taught himself some trigonometry and even a bit of calculus. He wants to learn and can work mostly independently, but we need to give him more structure, and some decent materials that he likes.

For DD7(grade 1) we have at times had an EPGY subscription, which includes Math and parts of ELA, and she finished up to the end of Grade 2 Math and Grade 3 ELA, so technically she's ahead, but she averaged only minutes of work per day (there's not a huge amount of material in each grade) and that's all she's done. She refused to touch the Beast Academy (AoPS Math) books we got, nor the science and history books we got. Unlike DS10, DD7 is strongly resistant to doing anything she's told, so we'll have to figure out how to get her to do what's expected (after we figure out what's expected).
DD5(pre K) has not done any schoolwork yet.

So there's some background. Obviously some parenting changes are needed. But I do want curriculum suggestions.
 

[MomatHWTK]

Plato Education

Study.com

[hornblower]

So, one way to think of this is this :

 

If you bring to mind the most fabulous, perfect school room, what do you see?

 

For me, I see a skilled, engaged teacher who is comfortable with the material and who *teaches* through a variety of activities and methods. Unless you want to do hard core unschooling (which also requires an involved facilitator), you will need to teach. That doesn't necessarily mean standing in front a chalkboard but it probably means sitting with the student and talking with them about the lesson, and what it means, and how to approach the assignment or activity associated with it. Depending on the maturity of the student, you may have to guide along each step, or just hover and make encouraging noises, or you may eventually just need to get them started...but that level of independence will take time...

 

A child flat out refusing to look at a book with you, even if you say "ok, just sit here and listen and I'll talk and then I will show you how I do the problems" ...well, if you can't get that, that's a parenting problem more than a homeschooling problem IMO.

 

Fwiw, the method in the above paragraph is IMO a totally appropriate way to try and start a new curriculum. You do it, and see if after a while the child is interested enough to try to talk to you about it or eventually try doing the problems. If they're not, consider whether this is a good curriculum or whether you're presenting it in an interesting and engaging fashion.

 

 

For computer based math, how about Teaching Textbooks. Khan academy is another option. Also, have you had a look through the WTM book for recommendations?

 

 

 

 

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[SarahW]

OP here. Thanks for all the comments.

 

I'll get to the other questions, but again I do want to hear about options for "comprehensive" online curricula. I found

time4learning.com

but I want to hear about other options of this type.

 

Background: I work, wife doesn't, so even though I can sometimes work at home, I am limited in my time.

 

We did try free virtual school (K12.com) with our oldest, DS10, before switching to homeschooling. (B&M school is not a good option here for various reasons, so we've been left with homeschooling as the only remaining option.) Doing virtual school did show that DS10 was able to work through a bunch of school tasks put before him, but the material was just okay, not great, and virtual school involves a lot of wasted time for child and parent, with many unnecessary educational and non-educational tasks to deal with. It convinced us that we could do better, more efficiently, with better materials, with regular homeschooling. I still believe that's true in theory, with the right materials, even if it hasn't turned out in practice yet.

 

For DS10(grade 4) we got Michael Clay Thompson for ELA. DS10 read some a couple of times, and thought it was fun, but my wife expected him to work alone and wasn't willing to spend any time on it, so it was abandoned. We also got various Art of Problem Solving books. DS10 has worked through some parts of them, but there is too little progress through the books for this to be viable. We also got some general science and history books (not curricula) to read, but they went barely touched. The problem seems to be that he doesn't like learning from books. He prefers online. For example, on his own initiative, he found various math websites and taught himself some trigonometry and even a bit of calculus. He wants to learn and can work mostly independently, but we need to give him more structure, and some decent materials that he likes.

 

For DD7(grade 1) we have at times had an EPGY subscription, which includes Math and parts of ELA, and she finished up to the end of Grade 2 Math and Grade 3 ELA, so technically she's ahead, but she averaged only minutes of work per day (there's not a huge amount of material in each grade) and that's all she's done. She refused to touch the Beast Academy (AoPS Math) books we got, nor the science and history books we got. Unlike DS10, DD7 is strongly resistant to doing anything she's told, so we'll have to figure out how to get her to do what's expected (after we figure out what's expected).

DD5(pre K) has not done any schoolwork yet.

 

So there's some background. Obviously some parenting changes are needed. But I do want curriculum suggestions.

 

 

 

Okay, fwiw, I have a techie kid who has sometimes suggested that he'd be happiest if he could "just do all his work on the computer." For various reasons we haven't done that (he's inattentive, he needs remediation in comprehension and handwriting skills) but I've thought about it. I've done something like it - when Babypants was just born I set up his old laptop with accounts for various sites and put them in his bookmarks bar. I could just tell him "Go do some Khan Academy, then Headadventureland, then watch a Bill Nye." But it wasn't something that really worked for him long term.

 

But iff I were to do it, I would make up daily "task cards." Probably actual cards in an actual bucket. Separate cards per subject so they can rotate. Each card would have a task, say 20xp on Duolingo, two lessons on Khan Academy, watch history documentary at link ____ and then write a few sentences in a notebook about it, etc. Easy Peasy Homeschool has this sort of setup, but, again, would really require a self-starter to complete the daily tasks on their own. Plus, you're stuck with what they pick out, kwim?

 

Online programs that you could make task cards for that I can think of right now:

Khan Academy

Duolingo

Read Theory

Headadventure Land (they'd still need to at least read the book)

AOPS online components (again, still need the book)

Ck-12

Wordly Wise online

Spelling City

Hoffman Academy

And for older kids, the oodles of free MOOC's

Parts of Easy Peasy

English Grammar 101

 

If you have the money, you could start outsourcing classes for the older kids through any of the many online providers. AOPS, WTMA, etc. etc. People could offer lots of suggestions for those.

 

My son also likes to to coding, so he does that on the computer with Scratch and some other programs. He does that on his own.

 

Obviously, with this approach you'd really need to make teacher accounts and/or assign some sort of output to ensure that the kids are actually doing what they are supposed to.  

 

I think the reason why people are so hesitant about this, and why I am as well, is that telling kids, even older kids, "here, do this, and come to me if you have any questions" is that it usually doesn't work. It just doesn't. But for a few kids it could work really well. Only you know your own kids, so it's your call.

 

PS. Your complaint about K12 is a common one.

Edited April 29, 2016 by SarahW

[LisaKinVA]

8 years ago, we started trying online computer learning (we used K12).  If I could go back and un-do much of that, I would.  When we moved overseas, due to issues with being stuck in a hotel for 7 months, and not having all of our school curriculum, we used Time for Learning for awhile...I can't recommend that program.  While some of it was good, the structure was distracting and made my kids feel like they took too long to actually get to what needed to be done (attempts to make it "fun" particularly annoyed my older kids -- while my younger kids seemed to get nowhere quickly).  We also ran into issues with the wording of some questions and selections of answers (unnecessarily tricky).  For example, in a multiple choice test there would be multiple CORRECT answers, but you'd have to choose one.  This was health, people...no need to have mental games on the BEST answer for something that triggers depression!  (FWIW, the kid who experienced these frustrations scores near perfect on the CR portion of the PSAT and ACT).

 

In all honesty, having used both T4L and K12, K12 is much, much better overall (I don't like either for elementary/middle school math, though).  

 

I have accelerated kiddos.  They are all over the map (each one different), and one year my oldest is a math genius and can't write a solid paragraph to save his life, and the next year math is so hard he must be dumb (his words), and is writing solid papers with citations in less than half the expected time.  I currently have children in 1st, 3rd, 6th, 8th and 10th.

 

Here is what I have found to work *the best* for us.

 

Everything (whether online, or book-based) is scheduled to a daily lesson or task for the year.  The daily tasks are scheduled to a weekly schedule (which allows me to plan for vacations, appointments, take into account sick days, or life).  The daily/weekly tasks are then the barometer for other privileges (video games, etc.). 

 

I use a mixture of online, video lecture, audio book, textbook and literature.  With 5 kids, and two realistically doing high school and college-level work, I *can't* do it all. But, I still must be involved at some level.  I pick and choose where and how.  My youngest (currently 1st) uses the Abeka DVD courses for: Phonics/Reading, Math, penmanship, Bible/Songs.  I have to listen to her read aloud, we do FLL 1 together 2x a week, and she also has nearly completed the Math Mammoth 1 books.  Science is in the form of books, videos and explorations.  History is SOTW/Audio and some DVD.  Her 2nd grade year will look much the same.  The DVD components give me some time to work with my other kids where they need me.

 

My favorite resources are:

 

www.shmoop.com ($30/month up to 10 students -- does have classes, ability to track progress, we are trying it out this year -- Middle School, High School and some other courses))

www.educator.com ($25/month, unlimited, lectures -- not keyed to a text, some practice -- mostly high school and above, but they have some middle school)

www.clutchprep.com ($25/month, unlimited, AP level/intro college level lectures keyed to texts...no problems/practice/progress).  We've used this for Chemistry, but won't need it next year.

www.edx.org (depending upon the topic, there are several companies offering MOOCs, but these are usually geared towards older students) Free, but I've donated for the Italian, and will donate again towards APES, some are very thorough classes (with progress and grades), some just need a little extra (usually extra readings)

www.homeschoolconnections.org ($30/month, unlimited).  Classes (live cost more, and at your own pace), including assignments, lectures, tests and progress (but you have to check progress in each individual course -- not overall).  They are started offering elementary courses this past year.

 

I haven't used www.study.com.  I'd like to -- but their free trial is 24 hours  :huh: .  Perhaps if it goes on sale through Homeschool Buyers Coop, I may.  But, right now, it's just a lot more than I can afford ($99/month), for things that aren't full courses (they have progress, tests and quizzes, but usually need to be keyed to a textbook, the English courses don't include literature -- of course they have separate lit studies).  They offer a ton of things, I'm just not convinced it's worth the money -- especially if I essentially have to plan it all out myself.  For the money, Shmoop seems to offer a more comprehensive class (helps that they've sought out AP certification, as well as credit recovery and A-G certification -- I have a better idea of what I'm getting).

 

I get having limited time and multiple children at different levels -- but like other PP have said, the younger kids are going to need assistance regardless.  With solid planning and preparation (yearly syllabus, keyed to a weekly schedule), you can help your children become more independent -- but they will still need parental involvement.

 

I'd only enroll my kids in an all-online school again if it were my absolute last resort.  It didn't save us any time, issues with kids not doing their work are still present, and even better, they are even more distracted by the lure of the internet.

 

I'm more than happy to share what I do, and even help people out with the planning/scheduling.  My 1st grader really wants her own check-off list for the week...and I may just oblige her.  For us, greater independence (and less frustration) came with the planning being done, expectations for a day/week/month clearly listed, and rewards/consequences tied to meeting/exceeding those expectations.

 

It takes me longer to plan it all -- but the benefits during the school year have been tremendous.

 

[kolamum]

Personally, I'd pull the plug out of the computer &/or turn off the internet. 

 

However, if you really want a computer based programme what about Monarch?

[kristin0713]

Does your wife want to homeschool?  Since she is the one home with them, your curriculum needs to work for her teaching style as well as the children's learning styles.  If she wants to be mostly hands-off, I don't think your children will be successfully home educated at their ages. 

 

We also keep screens off during the day.  In fact, it's off until after dinner.  The one exception now is that I'm letting them play Timez Attack for 30 minutes after all their other work is done.  This is because my 4th grader has not mastered her multiplication facts and I want to see if a game will work better for her. 

[HomeAgain]

There's a time and a place for everything.  Right now, I would not feel comfortable giving curriculum suggestions that would enable poor decisions in the interest of the children. This is not what homeschooling should look like.  A tutor might be a better option for you.

 

Best of luck.

[Haiku]

The solution to the kids playing on their devices all day is to take away the devices.

 

Beyond that, it sounds like you want to homeschool but your wife doesn't if it requires effort.

 

Honestly, expecting to plunk kids in front of a computer and have them somehow become educated with minimal intervention on your part is unrealistic. Homeschooling takes time, effort, and commitment. If you don't have those things, your kids would be better off in a different educational environment.

[Haiku]

Btw, $50 a month for a complete education for three children is about as cheap as cheap can be, so if that's too expensive for you, I think you'll be hard pressed to find anything else that's decent.

[EmseB]

I think perhaps instead of gearing the education to what the kids want to do, you need to get something your wife is willing to teach if she is the one home doing the schooling and parenting most of the time.

 

Kids respond to their parents' cues. If their primary educator is uninterested in taking the time to engage and educate them, they will quickly conclude it's not worth their time or effort to do the work either, especially if there is easy entertainment and brain candy available as an alternative.

 

I think what most people are saying is that there isn't a curriculum available that is going to do what you are seeking, which is teach elementary kids without an engaged, in-person teacher that is invested in their education.

 

Maybe the afterschooling board would be of some help in developing strategies to homeschool them when you are available (assuming your wife doesn't want to homeschool them). Really, k-2 takes at most a couple of hours per day. 4th/5th is trickier, but with device/internet access restricted and daily task list it could be done. But that would require a lot of parent prep on the front end.

Edited April 29, 2016 by JodiSue

[fairy4tmama]

8 years ago, we started trying online computer learning (we used K12).  If I could go back and un-do much of that, I would.  

 

 

Here is what I have found to work *the best* for us.

 

Everything (whether online, or book-based) is scheduled to a daily lesson or task for the year.  The daily tasks are scheduled to a weekly schedule (which allows me to plan for vacations, appointments, take into account sick days, or life).  The daily/weekly tasks are then the barometer for other privileges (video games, etc.). 

 

I use a mixture of online, video lecture, audio book, textbook and literature.  With 5 kids, and two realistically doing high school and college-level work, I *can't* do it all. But, I still must be involved at some level.  I pick and choose where and how.  My youngest (currently 1st) uses the Abeka DVD courses for: Phonics/Reading, Math, penmanship, Bible/Songs.  I have to listen to her read aloud, we do FLL 1 together 2x a week, and she also has nearly completed the Math Mammoth 1 books.  Science is in the form of books, videos and explorations.  History is SOTW/Audio and some DVD.  Her 2nd grade year will look much the same.  The DVD components give me some time to work with my other kids where they need me.

 

 

I get having limited time and multiple children at different levels -- but like other PP have said, the younger kids are going to need assistance regardless.  With solid planning and preparation (yearly syllabus, keyed to a weekly schedule), you can help your children become more independent -- but they will still need parental involvement.

 

I'd only enroll my kids in an all-online school again if it were my absolute last resort.  It didn't save us any time, issues with kids not doing their work are still present, and even better, they are even more distracted by the lure of the internet.

 

I'm more than happy to share what I do, and even help people out with the planning/scheduling.  My 1st grader really wants her own check-off list for the week...and I may just oblige her.  For us, greater independence (and less frustration) came with the planning being done, expectations for a day/week/month clearly listed, and rewards/consequences tied to meeting/exceeding those expectations.

 

It takes me longer to plan it all -- but the benefits during the school year have been tremendous.

 

 

Does your wife want to homeschool?  Since she is the one home with them, your curriculum needs to work for her teaching style as well as the children's learning styles. 

 

 

Okay, fwiw, I have a techie kid who has sometimes suggested that he'd be happiest if he could "just do all his work on the computer." For various reasons we haven't done that (he's inattentive, he needs remediation in comprehension and handwriting skills) but I've thought about it. I've done something like it - when Babypants was just born I set up his old laptop with accounts for various sites and put them in his bookmarks bar. I could just tell him "Go do some Khan Academy, then Headadventureland, then watch a Bill Nye." But it wasn't something that really worked for him long term.

 

But iff I were to do it, I would make up daily "task cards." Probably actual cards in an actual bucket. Separate cards per subject so they can rotate. Each card would have a task, say 20xp on Duolingo, two lessons on Khan Academy, watch history documentary at link ____ and then write a few sentences in a notebook about it, etc. Easy Peasy Homeschool has this sort of setup, but, again, would really require a self-starter to complete the daily tasks on their own. Plus, you're stuck with what they pick out, kwim?

 

 

 

Obviously, with this approach you'd really need to make teacher accounts and/or assign some sort of output to ensure that the kids are actually doing what they are supposed to.  

 

I think the reason why people are so hesitant about this, and why I am as well, is that telling kids, even older kids, "here, do this, and come to me if you have any questions" is that it usually doesn't work. It just doesn't. But for a few kids it could work really well. Only you know your own kids, so it's your call.

 

PS. Your complaint about K12 is a common one.

There are some real words of wisdom here and I wanted to quote a few because these are some really valid points, ideas and questions to consider.(the bolding is mine and I have edited the above quotes for length)

 

The question about your wife's feelings about homeschooling is REALLY important?

 

Sarah w's Task card idea is great and if you do decide that primarily online instruction is the way to go for your family it could work for the older two but I doubt it could for the 5 year old.(and perhaps you are not even considering that but I had to say it anyway) There are a lot of good online and video programs that can teach about reading but NONE of my children could have learned to read solely in this fashion.

 

I think that Lisa K has some of the strongest advice here which is to make technology your friend when it comes to planning and use media as currency. This is actually exactly what I do with my oldest who is smart but not terribly motivated when it comes to school. I just wrote about how we are using Trello to create an independent Homeschool Schedule and media other than that assigned in his lesson can only be used after five IF all his lessons are complete. 

 

I realize that we are getting a very stilted look at your homeschool and that when people post in forums their words, although meant to clarify, sometimes create a misleading impression. I hope you find some answers that work for you!

Edited April 29, 2016 by fairy4tmama

[Peaceful Isle]

Acellus is an online , teacher taught program for a monthly fee. Some really love it. I've never used it myself though, but you can see samples of the lessons on their website.

[lilyandsparrow]

K12---sibling discounts and multiple subject discounts. Payment plans.

Skip the horrid math, though.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I agree.  We did K12 for my daughter's 1st grade year through our state's online charter school (Ours was Oregon Virtual Academy ORVA).  The provide a teacher, online classroom time, etc.  Because it was a state charter program everything was provided for free.  My daughter loved it--except the math.  The math induced tears upon tears.  If we could have continued with K12/ORVA and just done a math alternative it would have been perfect for us.  

 

 

Edited April 29, 2016 by lilyandsparrow

[Guest]

I guess I should have specified to use K 12 as an independent, not a virtual charter.

 

 

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[LindaOz]

All-in-one-homeschool is a great online curriculum and it is totally free. I use parts of it but not all because I don't like everything being computer based but, if that was what you were wanting, it would be great. Check it out.... https://allinonehomeschool.com/

 

PS: The author is Christian but you could just not do the Bible portions.

Edited April 29, 2016 by LindaOz

[RenaInTexas]

In my personal experience, technology learning works best as practice or reinforcement, but not as an initial introduction to new material; especially elementary age. New material will most likely need to be taught by a parent, tutor, or online instructor.

[epi]

OP here. Thanks for the curriculum suggestions. I am looking at it all.

Also, I didn't sugar-coat the situation, so as to invite candid comments, and I appreciate all these comments.
 

[maize]

Words of wisdom from others, especially regarding the need for a committed, engaged teacher.

[Soror]

I think you are rather brave to open yourself up to criticism.

 

I've had people ask me several times what you do if your hs kid refuses to work, my answer is that is a parenting issue not a hs'ing problem. Your kids being on electronic all day is not an issue with what you are using but a parenting one. Using something else doesn't solve the problem, you still have to make sure the kids are doing it. 

 

I think a long talk with your wife is in order. Have you phrased this to her in the same way as you did here? Does she agree with your assessment? What does she want to do? What are the plans for changing things so work gets done? 

 

I think there is more than one way to go about it but behavior and habit training need to happen before any of the other changes are going to work. Personally I'd take this summer off and get the ground work laid. Hs'ing is hard work and to do it well requires a lot from the teacher, it just does, just expecting them to do it on their own and have it done well is pushing the responsibility from Mom to kids. If Mom can't stay on top of it expecting the kids to stay on top of it is rather unrealistic and unfair. 

 

I just read this today and found it very true and encouraging from Mentalmultivitamin (now named M--)

 

ETA: The material below was originally framed as a reply to a homeschooling parent who had pretty specific concerns about "me time," difficult students, failed expectations, etc.

 

It all begins with me.

Most of the time when things "break bad" here (and they do; not often, but they do), it's more about me than about anyone else. When the work is taking forever to complete, when the quality is less than expected, when enthusiasm has waned, etc., I don't need to look much further than the example I've been setting. Have I been on-task? Have I been doing my job(s) with attention to detail? Have I conveyed my love of the subject and of the family-centered learning project? Or have I been dealing with our accountant in a series of longwinded telephone calls? Spending twenty extra minutes on the treadmill? Checking email or blogging? Planning activities for next week, month, or year when we haven't completed the activities for this week, month, or year? (Actually, I gave up that last bit during year one of this adventure. One of the first hard lessons I learned about home education is that my time is best spent not on elaborate lesson plans (no matter how ingenious, inventive, or inspiring to other hs-ing mothers), thumbing through catalogues, drafting curriculum wishlists, or bouncing from one resource to another but on the simple task of focusing on the moment we're in. It has saved me years of angst and wasted time, talent, and treasure, that lesson has.)

 

Don't misunderstand. I think that it's important that we parent-educators tend to our needs, but I also think it's critical that we do it on our own time. (For me, that's in the wee, small hours of the morn' or the late evening hours after they head to bed or, sometimes, during the day on "free" days (one benefit of year-round studies).) When I forget this self-mandate (e.g., when I take a call during lesson time or blog while the kids are laboring over math sheets), I send the following mixed message: Leading the family-centered learning project is my first and most important job -- except when I want to do something else. Make that mistake too many times, and it's really no wonder when the youngest dallies over a sheet she previously needed only thirty minutes to complete for three, four times longer than that; no wonder that they're feeling recalcitrant, unmotivated; no wonder our interactions are laced with discontent.

 

Lest you or someone else click away in anger, note that this is not a criticism of any sort. I don't know how you approach your work. You asked how to reach your child's heart, though; I can only tell you how I reach my own children's hearts and minds:

 

With as much consistency as possible, I model the behavior and standards I want the kids to maintain.

 

And I've been doing that since we began this adventure.

 

By necessity, this means I haven't adopted then abandoned multiple approaches to parenting or learning. It means that I decided on a fairly certain course early on, a course chosen to match my personality and goals well.

 

And I've stuck with it.

 

There is an unmistakable rhythm to our days, a dance of daily routines and rituals that guide this family's life, and everyone, from the generally happy-no-matter-what youngest to the uber-sensitive-artist-type middle to the man-boy oldest sways to the silent music

 

...because it has been playing since they they arrived.

 

Sure, there's spontaneity. And fun. Lots of it. Surprise. Humor. Laughter. But that's the harmony. The melody is one of clearly stated goals and plenty of examples of how to achieve them.

 

We parent-educators love to point out that the benefit of homeschooling is that we can tailor the curriculum and our approach to our students' needs. As I wrote in "Be a sun," I suspect there is a point at which this becomes too much of a good thing. Clearly, when an elementary school student fails to understand that his or her job is to play and learn and study and grow (and to do so without a big fuss), he or she needs less "heart talk" and more "stern talk" -- mixed with a healthy dose of the teacher modeling the same level of commitment to task.

 

What is "stern talk"? It might look something like this: Quite simply, education is the law here; as in, parents must provide their children with an education. If my child isn't learning (barring some sort of organic issue), we are not complying with the law. If I am doing my part (check), that leaves you, the child. You must do your part. In this house, that means that the following activities must be completed on a daily (weekly, monthly, annual) basis. Until we're in compliance, we will skip the following activities: [insert favorite programs, extracurriculars here].

 

I'm going to circle back to my original premise: It all begins with the parent-educator. Anger and sadness are one response to a recalcitrant student. Humor is another approach. But, in the end, unwavering purposefulness may be the best choice, and that's hard to achieve if we haven't done the hard work of laying out our own courses. As I said, this is not a criticism but an observation based on my teaching and parenting experiences: Things work best when I work best.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2016 by soror

[sbgrace]

OP, would you have the time to teach the younger ones basics like reading and math? Basic schooling doesn't take a lot of time with those ages, and they really do need teacher one on one instruction to learn those core skills.

 

The oldest, if reading well, could be more independent with the right programs and someone to check work for accountability (maybe you...)

 

Maybe you could enroll in some online teacher taught courses with the oldest, say for composition? Or maybe IEW DVD based composition with you grading on the week-end. Math could be Kahn academy with oversight by you. If you like AOPS that's available online, but I wouldn't tackle that with an unself motivated child without heavy teacher support. CLE math is from a Mennonite company, but it's pretty innocuous to use secular imo. It's pretty painless to complete, entirely self teaching, and easy to grade.

 

I would think it might be more effective if you could have the oldest complete the things you assign, using open and go type materials, prior to being able to use screens. The younger two would need to wait on the oldest to be finished as well for that to work I think. You could pick self teaching type materials that are easy to grade instead of online? Without a lot of oversight online instruction for my two would likely turn into internet generally.

 

I applaud you reaching out for suggestions here and being so honest. I really hope you get some ideas that work. I think your involvement as much as possible might be key. Best of luck.

[epi]

OP here. Oh dear, I finally took a look at the time4learning lesson demos. (I should have done that earlier, obviously.) It doesn't look good to me. It really doesn't look like something we'd want to use. We'll need to keep looking. Thanks for all the curriculum suggestions.
 

[FawnsFunnyFarm]

There is www.mobymax.com,you can use it for free but extras are worth the $99 a year membership.

 

I agree though, kids these ages need a person actually working with them.

[againstthegrain]

A child flat out refusing to look at a book with you, even if you say "ok, just sit here and listen and I'll talk and then I will show you how I do the problems" ...well, if you can't get that, that's a parenting problem more than a homeschooling problem IMO.

 

 

We do this at least once every couple weeks when one of the children refuses to participate - if I let them refuse and excused them from work I should not be homeschooling them. They would love screen time - both children have asked repeatedly for computer based education. I offer them electives to do after they have their regular work done (latin root programs/keyboarding/etc). Until you can enforce discipline (or your wife can), it seems unreasonable to put your children's education in their hands. They will not want to do their school work on the computer. They have been PLAYING on the computers - not doing school work. When you expect them to make a change to school work only on computers, they will refuse at some point and you will be back to the same parenting issue that was never corrected.

 

I can't make online curriculum suggestions, but there are numerous parenting education resources I can suggest.

 

Just my opinion.

Edited April 30, 2016 by againstthegrain

[domestic_engineer]

I realize you asked for an online program, but I thought I'd throw this out-of-the-box idea out there for your consideration ...

What about getting a tutor for your kids?  It would give the kids the one-on-one instruction time and perhaps you could even stay with your ideal curriculum.

 

[epi]

There is www.mobymax.com,you can use it for free but extras are worth the $99 a year membership.

 

I agree though, kids these ages need a person actually working with them.

 

I saw mobymax.com but I wondered if it included a lot of questions, but not instruction (same with ixl.com).

[gypsymama]

I agree with the comments above about it being difficult to homeschool (especially young children and/or unmotivated children) without a great deal of parent-teacher involvement. Time4learning and allinonehomeschool are the only two online curricula that I have experience with. Hated time4learning and allinone was good but just not a great fit for us. It is free though so would be good for you to check out. I would like to add a few thoughts though:

 

* NOTHING says that school needs to happen 8-3 M-F. There is nothing wrong with you homeschooling in the evenings and weekends when you can be the teacher if that is going to be what your family needs (and you are able to do so).

* Open and go independent work can be done offline as well. It might be a better motivator to have independent work they can do offline and must be completed before they are allowed electronic access. 

* Core vs. content. When I feel overwhelmed I look at it this way: core areas - math, spelling, reading, English/grammar (must be done); content areas - history, science (need to be done but can be more relaxed); everything else - icing on the cake! Prioritizing subjects allows me to focus on what needs to be done and also see what I can cut us some slack when it just can't ALL be done. 

 

 

[kristin0713]

I wanted to mention some things that we do that my kids do mostly independently, even though they are not computer based. They are 10 and 8. I have to preface this by saying that we have moved towards more independence a little at a time, and we do have the expectation of being fairly structured and that schoolwork must be done before play time. As I said up-thread, no screens/tv/anything during school hours or it would totally derail our day. Also, I am engaged with them and right here if they need help. It always seems that if I take a phone call or get involved with something, they lose their focus, even if they should be working on their own. Finally, some of this takes a lot of planning on my part, and some is very open-and-go.

 

Literature: DD 10 has been on her own with literature for a couple of years. She chooses books from a stack that I give her and I try to encourage different genres (biography, mystery, fantasy, non-fiction, etc.) She will read the number of pages or for the amount of time that I tell her, and then come and tell me what happened in the book. There have been some books where I have had her write a summary for each chapter but I don't make her do that all the time, because I know she is reading them and her comprehension is good. DS 8 is a newer reader and I still have him read out loud to me.

 

Spelling: Soaring with Spelling. This is very easy to use and open-and go. Day one is a pre-test, requiring a teacher. Days 2, 3, and 4 have activities for the student to do with the words that are completely independent. On a rare occasion, they will have to ask me what the directions mean. But generally it is really easy for them to do on their own--things like a crossword puzzle, putting the words in alphabetical order, matching the words with definitions. Then on day five there is a test that I give. Any words wrong get carried over to the next week. The test and pre-test do not take much time, you could even do that on the weekends.

 

Grammar: Growing With Grammar (DD 10 is using level 4, DS 8 has not started this so I can't speak to the younger levels, although it would require solid reading comprehension to do independently.) The student textbook is very easy for her to understand and do the workbook pages on her own. I do make sure she understands the lesson before doing the workbook. She needs help from me to do the diagramming, but can do most of the other grammar work on her own.

 

Copywork/Notebooking: We are part of Classical Conversations and they have memory work each week to practice in history, science, English grammar, Latin, and math. I made notebooks for them this year where they can practice writing their memory work and do related activity pages. I printed those out from someone who made them. That took more prep from me than any of their other work, but I got it done in the summer and it is something they can do totally independently.

 

Content reading: DD 10 can read an comprehend at a pretty high level, so I sometimes give her extra books to read for history or science and/or have her read related picture books to DS.

 

Writing: We started IEW this year, and after a few months, DD was able to do a lot of the outlining on her own. I bought a book that is in the style of IEW with pages for her to define vocabulary words, outline the story, brainstorm adjectives, that kind of thing before writing the rough draft. But then after she writes her rough draft, I am very involved in the editing process.

 

Things we do together:

I almost always do math with them, at least at the beginning. If they understand what they are doing, I have them finish the pages on their own and then I check it. We do a literature read aloud together, and content area readings together. We practice CC memory work together. DS is a new reader as I said, so I haven't sent him off to read on his own yet. However, I bought workbooks for him to do this summer that he can do almost entirely on his own. They are Star Wars Reading and Writing by the makers of the Brainquest books.

[FawnsFunnyFarm]

I saw mobymax.com but I wondered if it included a lot of questions, but not instruction (same with ixl.com).

In my honest opinion, there is not enough teaching, but I have heard others who didn't agree with me. Just 2 nights ago, I was talking with a friend who is a special ed teacher and she said that the math on mobymax was really making a difference for her students.

 

I had actually forgotten about Growing With Grammar, Soaring with Spelling, and Winning with Writing. They can be very independent for kids who can read well on their own.

 

Teaching Textbooks for math is awesome and most 2nd graders can handle grade 3... My advice here though is have them watch the lesson, do the workbook, then enter the answers in the computer.

 

For content subjects there are things like brainpop.com and brainpopjr.com. they can watch the video then take the quiz. The results don't get saved but we have printed them for record of what was done.

 

You could also get the What Your Grader Needs to Know books and read through the sections a few a day (one history entry and one art one day one science and one music the next, one story the next, etc. You could use the sayings and poetry for memory work or copy work to help with memory and handwriting), it could be done short and sweet.. Have them keep a notebook with summaries, drawings, etc (thinking of Waldorf style main lesson books or notebooking type things here). Add videos from brainpop to it and it could be awesome for them. I would not be concerned with grade level here, I would start with the k book and if you did just 2 short readings a day you could do 2 books a year. You could also add crafts (searching online for ideas is pretty easy and usually yields great ideas, maybe your wife could help with this part?).

 

There is a program called Home Art Studio, my kids love it, even the K level is great. If you have the supplies on hand and the kids know where to find them it could be very independent as well.

 

With anything that they do independently, someone is going to have to stay on top of them. Their work needs checked every day.

 

I do understand the want for online learning, I have never found curriculum that is online that would work for us, but we do use lots of online sites, videos, crafts and games to make homeschooling work here. My kids just are not book lovers. They prefer visual and hands on learning. If they are bored with what we are doing, they will disengage and learn absolutely nothing.

[SarahW]

Just to add on here - 

 

The curriculum you say you and your wife have used are very teacher intensive. MCT is something that lots of the experienced folks here have a hard time figuring out. AOPS is not for the faint of heart. If your wife isn't sure about homeschooling, these are the last curriculums she should be trying to use.

 

What if you switched to a few very easy, open-and-go scripted curriculums? FLL and WWE is dead easy, just open to the next page and read what's there. And they don't take long at all. AAR/AAS are scripted, though they can be fiddely. MM is written to the student. So one idea is to get MM and FLL/WWE and rotate through the kids - while one is getting the scripted lesson with you or your wife, the others can be doing MM. With some practice you could get done with the core subjects in about an hour. Then you can assign "fun" computer things for further practice in math and spelling, and content in science, history, and etc. Add on some assigned quiet time for reading or listening to audio books and I think you'd be golden.

[maize]

For math practice, my kids are very motivated by the prodigy math game. The basic version is free, but kind of annoying because it keeps giving you popups about subscribing; if you get in on a group buy the subscription is only about $14 per student.

 

Khan academy is free and can be good.

 

Duo lingo for foreign language.

 

Does your library have any subscriptions to tutoring or homework help sites?

 

My kids do quite well with a daily checklist.

[Garga]

I agree with the previous poster. You've used teacher intensive stuff in the past.

 

Exactly how much work is your wife willing to put into this? If she does not want to be a homeschooling teacher, you can't expect her to be one.

 

Christian Light Education (CLE) has an entire curriculum based on workbooks. Yes, it's workbooks. Blah. But it's solid. Non-Christians use it and disregard the Christian references because it's solid.

 

For each grade level, for each subject, there are a series of workbooks. Each lesson is written directly to the child. The child can read the lesson and then do the worksheets following. It's a spiral approach. This means that the books constantly (constantly) refer back to previous lessons, giving the kids an abundance of practice on each topic.

 

Kids could read the lessons and do the worksheets entirely on their own. Or, (this is what I do), the teacher can sit when them for about 10-15 minutes per subject, explaining the lesson. Then the child does the worksheet on her own.

 

If your wife doesn't want to teach at all, then perhaps you could teach the kids their lessons in the evenings. (Because it sounds like you do want to be a homeschooling parent). Then, the next day, they could do the worksheets on their own while your wife simply oversees that they're getting the work done. It would be much like how a teacher teaches the lesson, and the parents make sure the kids do the homework.

 

It's not ideal, but it would get the job done. As long as your wife is willing to check that they've completed their worksheets for the day. You can get the answer keys and check the work pretty quickly. Maybe she would do that. In the evenings you could go over the incorrect answers from the day and then teach the next lesson.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Garga

[ByGrace3]

Well, I think there are a few underlying problems here, and others have already mentioned some. Younger kids cannot get anything quality completely independent. The refusal to work and wanting to be on electronics all day is a parenting issue. Make them unplug. Perhaps I am misreading this but does your wife not want to be involved much? I cannot imagine homeschooling K and 2nd especially without an involved parent.

 

Currently my 5th and 3rd grader are doing a good bit independently. I recently had some health issues including a hospital stay and upcoming surgery so we have moved to a much more independent base.

 

A few things that are working for us that the kids do on their own:

Veritas Press self paced history (online)

Middlebury Interactive Spanish (self paced online)

Phonetic Zoo (spelling, cd audio)

 

The rest of what we use requires more of me, but they still do a good bit of it independently.

 

Perhaps if you feel homeschooling is best but your wife is not willing, you can school them in the evenings?

[FO4UR]

I will just echo others.

 

All screens hibernate until school and chores are completed for the day.

 

Pick math and LA currics that are worktexts, written to the student.

 

Then for history and science, you can give the oldest topics to research.  Use the internet, the library, etc.. I like the looks of Creek Edge Press Task Cards.

 

Find audiobooks, documentaries, games, and other non-traditional educational resources.