Please help me with habit-training

[FindingMyWay]

What do you do to teach your kids good habits, particularly with regard to things like hanging their coats up, picking up wrappers, etc? We work and work and work on this, but it doesn't seem to be sinking in at all. We've had them hang their own coats up for as long as I can remember - we used pegs when they were too little to use hangers - and I still have to remind them numerous times a day. We've been working for TWO YEARS on a simple morning routine of self-care and making beds/putting jammies away, and I still have to walk them through it every single day. What am I doing wrong? We use checklists, I remind them, we've done a reward system ... none of it seems to work to get them to do these things without constant reminders. 

 

My oldest (14) is somewhat better than the younger two (7 and almost 9). The younger boys seem to be oblivious to what's in their hands - they'll pick things up and put them down and never remember that they even touched the object. Drawers open, closet doors open, toilet seat up, clothes and socks dropped wherever, granola bar wrappers dropped wherever ... they leave a path of chaos behind them. I'm super frustrated with it, and they don't like the constant nagging, for some reason.  :laugh:  How can I handle this more effectively?

Edited April 27, 2016 by FindingMyWay

[FindingMyWay]

I would make it an "A must be done before you proceed to B". So if they come in and expect a snack, the snack doesn't happen until the coats are hung up. The next meal isn't served until the room is picked up and so on. The things you are describing are simply things that take two minutes for them to remedy. I would remind them once and then if it's not done, instead of nagging, simply stop yourself from doing the next thing they expect whether that's take them someone, fix them something, or allow them to go out to play or play video or so on......

 

ETA: They're pretty smart, and have figured out that they don't have to do it until a certain nag level is reached. I would cut that to be they're told one, maybe reminded once and that's it. After that they can figure out why you aren't allowing them to proceed to B. 

 

Yes, we generally do this. It's just that I have to do it every time, every day, numerous times a day - every time they eat a snack or come inside or whatever. That's where the nagging comes in. :) They feel like they are constantly being reprimanded, but it's for many different offences. 

[Incognito]

Somehow, it has to become a routine.  So, for the coats, can you be the first one in the door, then stand by the rack and wait to see that they put the coats where they belong?  If they're disappearing or not doing it, you are there as it happens AND you don't tell them what to do, you remind them, "you are forgetting something" - so they have to think about what that is.

 

It is really hard sometimes, but the more you can get them to think of it themselves (and not tell them), the more they get it in their brains and remember for themselves.  And it should be easy to do.  It should be easier to do the right thing (if possible), than to skip it or do the wrong thing.

 

FWIW, we have a great system for shoes and jackets, and each child goes through a phase or two of trying to see if they can get away with not doing it.  If I do it for them, the phase lasts way longer.  If I draw them back out of their play to do it they tend to be better at remembering. So now, 9 1/2 times out of 10 my kids put their shoes and jackets where they belong without reminders.  The other .5 times, I have to say something.  

 

For some things, it works best for us to have something desirable allowed after the task is completed.  So, if my child wants to play a video game, they know their room must be clean first.  Perhaps that type of if/then habit might help too.

[T'smom]

I wish I knew! My just turned 2 yo has been picking up shoes from all over the house and carrying them to the shoe bin by the back door. It seems as if he can figure it out then the 5 and 8 year olds should be able to do it too!!

[Tita Gidge]

When it's not relevant or important to us, we tend not to understand the relevance or importance of a task :lol: - unfortunately, and to the chagrin of parents everywhere!

 

I'm a lot like your kids, I always have been.  It still drives my parents crazy!

 

What works for me is to have a period of "me" but a point or two every day where I respect that I live with other people.  So I'm a whirlwind around the house until 3pm, which is an hour before we leave for evening activities. At 3pm I stop everything and address the tornado I've left around the house: socks flipped off during read alouds, snack wrappers left out during school work, dishes left in the sink from b'fast and lunch are washed, laundry I folded while doing school but then left on the sofa is put away, etc. I do it again before bed.

 

Would that work for you?  If you just met them where they are until, say, LUNCH or 2PM (or whenever the end of your school day is) - to tie a sweep of the house into a natural time of transition?  Or is your frustration more of a "they're going to be slobs as adults and this is a discipline issue" thing ...? If so, I can't help because I never outgrew my childhood habits despite my parents' best efforts and prayers LOL.

 

As for coats, gloves, etc. can you pro-actively remind as you park the car, or walk inside? "Hey, kids, as soon as we get in you need to hang coats."  Basically, if you're at a point where you're having to remind them constantly anyway, it may do more for your sanity to address it on the front end!

 

 

[FindingMyWay]

When it's not relevant or important to us, we tend not to understand the relevance or importance of a task :lol: - unfortunately, and to the chagrin of parents everywhere!

 

I'm a lot like your kids, I always have been.  It still drives my parents crazy!

 

What works for me is to have a period of "me" but a point or two every day where I respect that I live with other people.  So I'm a whirlwind around the house until 3pm, which is an hour before we leave for evening activities. At 3pm I stop everything and address the tornado I've left around the house: socks flipped off during read alouds, snack wrappers left out during school work, dishes left in the sink from b'fast and lunch are washed, laundry I folded while doing school but then left on the sofa is put away, etc. I do it again before bed.

 

Would that work for you?  If you just met them where they are until, say, LUNCH or 2PM (or whenever the end of your school day is) - to tie a sweep of the house into a natural time of transition?  Or is your frustration more of a "they're going to be slobs as adults and this is a discipline issue" thing ...? If so, I can't help because I never outgrew my childhood habits despite my parents' best efforts and prayers LOL.

 

As for coats, gloves, etc. can you pro-actively remind as you park the car, or walk inside? "Hey, kids, as soon as we get in you need to hang coats."  Basically, if you're at a point where you're having to remind them constantly anyway, it may do more for your sanity to address it on the front end!

 

Yes, I do remind them as we walk in the door or as we get out of the car ... they still have to be reminded again when they toss their stuff on the floor. We have "it's time to clean up" breaks built into our day - before screens, before supper,  before bed. Even that frequently, though, *they* are overwhelmed with the mess because they're so heedless. And I think my frustration stems from a couple of areas. One, we have four "keep everything" people in my house, and one "throw-it-away" person ... me, the one who is largely responsible for cleaning and herding children through cleaning. Two, the constant clutter and mess makes me feel anxious and mentally paralyzed. I sometimes think a bigger house would help, but I'm not sure that's the case. And three, my whole day feels chaotic and everything that's the opposite of peaceful. 

 

I would actually be okay with them doing things the way you mentioned, at least to a point. When they leave clothes and wet towels all over the bathroom floor, there isn't room for anyone else to walk in and shut the door, ykwim? But I get that life is messy and you can't always clean up after every step. They still need very detailed step-by-step instructions, though, because they just don't see the mess the way I do. That is frustrating to all of us - me because they can be literally stepping on what I'm telling them to pick up and they don't see it, them because I'm constantly telling them what to do. 

 

I guess I'm just wondering what else I could be doing, because somewhere along the line, *some* of these things should have become automatic. 

[FindingMyWay]

Somehow, it has to become a routine.  So, for the coats, can you be the first one in the door, then stand by the rack and wait to see that they put the coats where they belong?  If they're disappearing or not doing it, you are there as it happens AND you don't tell them what to do, you remind them, "you are forgetting something" - so they have to think about what that is.

 

It is really hard sometimes, but the more you can get them to think of it themselves (and not tell them), the more they get it in their brains and remember for themselves.  And it should be easy to do.  It should be easier to do the right thing (if possible), than to skip it or do the wrong thing.

 

FWIW, we have a great system for shoes and jackets, and each child goes through a phase or two of trying to see if they can get away with not doing it.  If I do it for them, the phase lasts way longer.  If I draw them back out of their play to do it they tend to be better at remembering. So now, 9 1/2 times out of 10 my kids put their shoes and jackets where they belong without reminders.  The other .5 times, I have to say something.  

 

For some things, it works best for us to have something desirable allowed after the task is completed.  So, if my child wants to play a video game, they know their room must be clean first.  Perhaps that type of if/then habit might help too.

 

Yes, I do try to do prompt them instead of tell them (I have Laying Down the Rails, and it's one of their suggestions). It doesn't always work because they can't see the mess, but I'm aware of that dynamic and work toward it. And yes, I do pull them away from their play to fix what they didn't do, or didn't do properly. 

 

So I guess my question is ... if I'm doing all these things and none of it is becoming automatic, what more can I do?

[Mimm]

I've started charging "maid fees". Because nothing else works. Usually no more than a dollar a day. My kids get allowance that is completely unattached to any chores or actions on their part. They just get it, every month. This only covers extras. I buy them clothes, pay for phones, pay for school lunches, etc. So this is just spending money. If they were charged maid fees every day, they would still have a small amount of allowance left over and they would still have everything they need to survive. Just no going out with friends, etc. So I don't feel guilty about this at all.

 

Though this morning I found another DVD sitting ON the case it belonged in and I kind of snapped. We've literally been telling my 15 year old to put the DVDs in the case for a decade. And she won't. I texted her that next time I had to put a DVD in the case, I would be charging $5.

[Tita Gidge]

Yes, I do remind them as we walk in the door or as we get out of the car ... they still have to be reminded again when they toss their stuff on the floor. We have "it's time to clean up" breaks built into our day - before screens, before supper,  before bed. Even that frequently, though, *they* are overwhelmed with the mess because they're so heedless. And I think my frustration stems from a couple of areas. One, we have four "keep everything" people in my house, and one "throw-it-away" person ... me, the one who is largely responsible for cleaning and herding children through cleaning. Two, the constant clutter and mess makes me feel anxious and mentally paralyzed. I sometimes think a bigger house would help, but I'm not sure that's the case. And three, my whole day feels chaotic and everything that's the opposite of peaceful. 

 

I would actually be okay with them doing things the way you mentioned, at least to a point. When they leave clothes and wet towels all over the bathroom floor, there isn't room for anyone else to walk in and shut the door, ykwim? But I get that life is messy and you can't always clean up after every step. They still need very detailed step-by-step instructions, though, because they just don't see the mess the way I do. That is frustrating to all of us - me because they can be literally stepping on what I'm telling them to pick up and they don't see it, them because I'm constantly telling them what to do. 

 

I guess I'm just wondering what else I could be doing, because somewhere along the line, *some* of these things should have become automatic. 

 

I sympathize. That's not an easy role to play, least of all when compounded by you bearing the brunt of responsibility for cleaning. It must feel like you're constantly swimming upstream.

 

For years I thought my dad had some kind of weird tick about the house being so ordered. As an adult I came to realize that it legitimately affects him on a physical level - much like you describe with the paralyzing and anxiety. It makes me feel badly for how I viewed his nagging and need for order when we were kids.

 

I don't know that there IS anything else you can do :sad: it sounds like you've tried everything, or close to it. I hope someone can chime in with something that will make a difference, it sounds like you really need something to change.

 

I like Mimm's idea. If your kids don't get an allowance, you can tweak it some. For every piece of trash (or dishes - "maid" things) they can owe you something: an extra chore, 10 jumping jacks, or even a time-out that's more like "I picked up your granola wrapper, when you've picked up three more things that belong to ANYBODY you can go back to playing."  For every toy or clothing you pick up, you keep. I did this once with their books, which they'd leave all over the house SPLIT OPEN (sacrilege here!). I kept them in a box in my closet. To earn the books back they had to do an extra job - their least favorite was rubbing Mama's feet LOL.

 

Mimm's idea may provide the kids with the motivation they need to see the mess as YOU see it. I don't mind a mess, so I truly don't see it the way my Dad did - and still does!  The books bothered me not because they were out but because the kids were messing up the book's spines.

[nd293]

I would make it an "A must be done before you proceed to B". So if they come in and expect a snack, the snack doesn't happen until the coats are hung up. The next meal isn't served until the room is picked up and so on. The things you are describing are simply things that take two minutes for them to remedy. I would remind them once and then if it's not done, instead of nagging, simply stop yourself from doing the next thing they expect

I agree with this. Also, when I notice something they haven't done I call them from what they're doing and insist they do what that should have immediately. So they have to leave the video game to come and puck their shoes up. Then to take the plates to the kitchen. Then to pick the toys up. Then to put the book on the shelf.

[barnwife]

We have 3 kids 5 and under. I am working on this too. Slowly, very slowly, I am seeing improvement.

One thing I've recently said is that if coats/shoes/mittens/outdoor gear doesn't go where it's supposed to upon entering the house, it will end up in coat jail/shoe jail/etc...Our kids have plenty of outdoor gear to choose from, so it's not like they wouldn't still be able to go outside. They just wouldn't have the current favorite coat or whatever.

For some reason, they love this.

If I am outside with them, I remind them as we come in by saying, "Gosh, I hope too much stuff doesn't end up in jail" or something similar. If they come in by themselves and I see something on the floor, I sometimes even say "Do I spy some coats that need to go to jail?"

These lighthearted reminders are taking away the nagging aspect, I think, and they have been doing better.

[TammyS]

I don't really know what the answer is.  I do a fair amount of yelling, which I hate, because it doesn't really work.  When I'm "on it" I make them come away from what they want to be doing AND I make them do one of my chores (because I figure hunting them down to do what they should be doing already is adding a chore to my list, so they get one of my other chores). 

[Bambam]

My kids used to leave shoes just wherever. So, I started a new rule - if you leave your shoes out and I find them, they will go to shoe jail on top of the frig. Shoes will stay there for three days. Then, and only then, can you get them back. If *I* want to go somewhere you need to have those shoes, I will get them down for you and then put them back when we get home. If you want to go somewhere but you don't have any shoes because they are all in jail, too bad, so sorry, not going to happen. Consequence and they could learn the habit themselves. Worked for years and years.

 

But, just the other day my 18 yo left her shoes against the wall (???). I was vacuuming and found them and requested nicely that she put them where they belong so I could vacuum there. She refused. (?Really? Yes, she was having a bad day. I would have not minded so much if she had said that she was really busy and could it wait or requested me to move them for her, pretty please.) I said nothing but I moved those shoes to the top of the frig. Seemed weird to do that to a child who is technically an adult, but it seemed a better option than fussing at her. She noticed and left them there for three days before removing her favorite shoes and then putting them where they belong. Hasn't happened again. Maybe she thought that she could get away with it since she is 18 now? Ha. No one leaves their shoes random places in my house! 

[FindingMyWay]

I sympathize. That's not an easy role to play, least of all when compounded by you bearing the brunt of responsibility for cleaning. It must feel like you're constantly swimming upstream.

 

For years I thought my dad had some kind of weird tick about the house being so ordered. As an adult I came to realize that it legitimately affects him on a physical level - much like you describe with the paralyzing and anxiety. It makes me feel badly for how I viewed his nagging and need for order when we were kids.

 

 

 

Thank you for your kind words. :) It does feel like swimming upstream.

 

 

 

 

When task mastered and habit is made, then choose ONE new habit. Rinse and repeat.

 

 

 

Thank you for your detailed suggestions! I've clipped it because the part that's bolded is the crux of the problem ... they know *how* to do all these things, but it's not a habit. Even after years of working on it. So if the task is mastered but it's not a habit, how do I help that to happen?  

 

I've started charging "maid fees". Because nothing else works. Usually no more than a dollar a day. My kids get allowance that is completely unattached to any chores or actions on their part. They just get it, every month. This only covers extras. I buy them clothes, pay for phones, pay for school lunches, etc. So this is just spending money. If they were charged maid fees every day, they would still have a small amount of allowance left over and they would still have everything they need to survive. Just no going out with friends, etc. So I don't feel guilty about this at all.

 

Though this morning I found another DVD sitting ON the case it belonged in and I kind of snapped. We've literally been telling my 15 year old to put the DVDs in the case for a decade. And she won't. I texted her that next time I had to put a DVD in the case, I would be charging $5.

 

I've actually tried this, but maybe I need to up the amount I'm charging. :)

 

At least I know I'm not alone in this struggle!  :laugh:

Edited April 28, 2016 by FindingMyWay

[Bluegoat]

What Sadie said.  One habit at time, scaffold it.

 

Also - I saw a talk last year by Sonya Schafer and habit training was a topic.  One of the things she emphasised was that nagging was completely counter-productive - essentially it ended up training the child to do things after you've told them a million times.  Because the brain pathways formed are "mom says do this, now I do this."

 

What needs to happen is there needs to be a pathway that says "I am taking off my shoes they need to go in the closet."  So - to help them you need to trigger that without just telling them.  They need to know what the routine should be, and when they stray, it should be indicated as much as possible without "telling".  A raised eyebrow, a directed stare, saying "aren't you forgetting something?"

[LMD]

I'm right there with you and feeling like a total failure this week...