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Miquon for child when parent doesn't get it?


ExcitedMama
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Miquon Orange and the Annotations have been sitting on a shelf since the fall unused. I finally took it out yesterday for DS. He enjoyed playing with it but the first sheet was too easy which was probably good since I could figure out what was going on. In skimming through the books there isn't much explanation and it's definitely not intuitive to me. Plus I can never keep straight what colors are what numbers unless I match them up. I know it's very highly recommended which is why I wanted to give it a try. How much involvement is needed from the parent? Can I just give it to him to figure out? Will it matter that I don't get it?

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You need to stop skimming.

Miquon is meant to be used with a leader/supervisor. facilitator who can/will aid the student in discovery.

 

As the parent-teacher, you need to READ (not skim) the Lab Sheet Annotations--preferably with a pen/pencil in hand. Mark on the page, with the pencil as you go, circle/underline,question, solve the small-scale pages in the annotations. Personally I find the writing style very straight-forward...but even for a lay-woman they are certainly understandable.

 

There is no way that I would encourage ANY parent be completely hands-off detached with K-3 math--that is time of laying a foundation. There is a page in the annotations that outlines which pages are in which book. Copy that, get some stick notes and tab those pages in your Annotations manual and take the time to read and comprehend those pages.

 

 

First read with a pencil in hand, making notes/clarifying. Then re-read the annotations again, with a pile of C-rods nearby and work through the pages 2 or 3 at a time, ahead of your son.

 

If you're not willing to relearn/brush up/prep for the K-3 math program you've picked, then I'd encourage you to consider another program that has everything all in one place, that will allow you to more easily teach/facilitate/monitor.

Edited by mathmarm
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Miquon Orange and the Annotations have been sitting on a shelf since the fall unused. I finally took it out yesterday for DS. He enjoyed playing with it but the first sheet was too easy which was probably good since I could figure out what was going on. In skimming through the books there isn't much explanation and it's definitely not intuitive to me. Plus I can never keep straight what colors are what numbers unless I match them up. I know it's very highly recommended which is why I wanted to give it a try. How much involvement is needed from the parent? Can I just give it to him to figure out? Will it matter that I don't get it?

 

The pages are *supposed* to be basically puzzles, that you have to play with a bit to figure out.  Don't worry about the colors - that will come with experience.  You can always line up "ones" next to a given color rod to figure out what number it represents.  Indeed, you and your student should do this whenever you need to; it builds up an intuitive understanding of the "four-ness" of four, for example, as four ones or two twos.  The worksheets aren't pages to march through as quickly as possible.  They are intended to be played with, considered, mulled over, experimented on, until you discover the relationships they are intended to reveal.  This approach draws on the same skills needed to solve higher-level, multi-step word-problems later on.  It creates a very useful foundation for later work.

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my kids ADORE c rods. I have the entire miquon set, including the lab notes, first grade diary, and teacher something or other. i read them all. I NEVER got it. It's been sitting on my shelf for 4 years. I just can't wrap my brain around it and I hand the sheets to my kids and they just look at me. It's just not for us. I WANT it to be, my 6yo, specifically, does really well with the rods. She's done all the c rod books i can find. But that's why there's so much curriculum out there. Nothing works for everyone.

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Thanks Kristin and Angel Mama, you make me feel better about not getting it!

 

I had read that Miquon is discovery based so I should clarify that it made me wonder if I can just leave it to DS to figure out, or if there should be more guidance from the parent? I don't have the Diary, would that help? Like I'm looking at an upcoming page of uppercase and lowercase letters, would that just be treated like different symbols as far as counting goes?

 

Mathmarm have you used Miquon with your child yet? I have to say your comment really offended me. I have READ the section he is currently working on. I have skimmed through later sections to get a better feel for it. Obviously I wouldn't be asking this question if I wasn't willing to help my son learn math. My concern is that it's not intuitive to me so I actually wanted advice to help me use it correctly. If it's something that I cannot teach him properly than I will not try to use it along with MIF. I am fully aware that I should be with my 6 year old to teach him.

Edited by ExcitedMama
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I had read that Miquon is discovery based so I should clarify that it made me wonder if I can just leave it to DS to figure out, or if there should be more guidance from the parent? I don't have the Diary, would that help? Like I'm looking at an upcoming page of uppercase and lowercase letters, would that just be treated like different symbols as far as counting goes?

 

 

 

No, you can't just leave it to your ds to figure out. You're going to need to spend some time helping him discover the concepts, and *then* give him the worksheet.

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Yes, Miquon requires a facilitator. No, there is no reason you need to study the annotations with a pencil in hand to take notes. It's not that hard! I've had 3 students go through Irwnge/red now (one moved to a different program, one just started blue, and one went to PS). And I'm terrible at math with a capital T.

 

The diary is useful. Mostly when confused you just need to glance at the annotation for that page. And maybe look over it every time you start a new section. You are right, it's NOT intuitive. But by the time you finish Orange you will have memorized th blocks long ago, and by the time you hit Blue you will barely need the annotations at all.

 

Edited to second education unboxed videos. The early games are a great way to learn the blocks.

Edited by Coco_Clark
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I found the 1st Grade diary very helpful, you can find it used on Amazon. The Education Unboxed videos are helpful too.

 

Yes, let your child play around and discover what to do, but facilitate it. Resist the urge to just tell him, but especially at first he will need some guidance. I thought Miquon was the most confusing thing at first, but now it's pretty easy. Every once in awhile we come across a sheet that doesn't make any sense and just skip it.

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OP, I'm sorry that you were offended. You miscommunicated and I misunderstand. My reply wasn't meant to offend you.

 

Mathmarm have you used Miquon with your child yet? I have to say your comment really offended me. I have READ the section he is currently working on. I have skimmed through later sections to get a better feel for it. Obviously I wouldn't be asking this question if I wasn't willing to help my son learn math. My concern is that it's not intuitive to me so I actually wanted advice to help me use it correctly. If it's something that I cannot teach him properly than I will not try to use it along with MIF. I am fully aware that I should be with my 6 year old to teach him.

No, I'm currently using Miquon and cRods with my 6 yo niece (who lives with us). With Jr. we are currently doing select activities without the worksheets themselves and plan to start him more fully in the program some time late this year, or early next.

 

I really meant no offense, so I'm sorry that you were offended. However your OP does NOT give the impression that you are already reading/preparing and taking the time to understand the program, but you do state that you do not find it "intuitive".  I wasn't being snarky when I wrote my reply. Miquon isn't meant to be intuitive to the teacher...

 

Check p7 and p8 of Lab Annotations, they have a list of recommendations for the teacher. The first two, I have reproduced here in part.

  1. Before beginning work on a topic with the children, the teacher should read the mathematics background material on that topic included in the Lab Sheet Annotations...
  2. Answers to only the most difficult or the trickiest problems are provided in the annotations. The teacher should use an extra set of the workbooks and work through all of the problems in order to be familiar with the concepts involved and the relative difficulty of the sheets. Thus teachers become their own first pupils as they transform their personal copies of the workbooks into answer books.

My suggestions to you were in keeping with what the author herself suggested that teachers do. I wasn't trying to be mean, but re-read your OP, hopefully you'll see where you miscommunicated or at least understand where the general misunderstanding on my part came from.

 

1) You titled this "Miquon for the child when parent doesn't get it?" which implies that you, the parent don't "get" Miquon.

2) Your OP says that Miquon and the Annotations have been sitting on the shelf since the fall "unused". I took "unused" to mean unused by you and/or your son and last fall was 8 months ago.

3) You say your son figured out the (too easy) first sheet which was good since YOU could (also) figure out what was going on. However, with the Lab Sheet Annotations, the teachers don't have "figure out" what's going on. These are the sheets on counting, which is explained over the course of 4 pages in the Lab Sheet Annotations and then the first worksheet is commented/explained. This is the first Lab Sheet of the FIRST Book. The way I read/understood the OP, there is no reason for you to "figure out" what the authors intended if you' recently read that section, so I took that to mean that you hadn't read them (recently, anyway).

4) When you said "In skimming through the books, there isn't much explanation and it's definitely not intuitive to me....I thought that you meant you were skimming through the STUDENT books, but if you've got the LSA, then there should be no confusion in your mind where the explation comes from. So again, if you've (recently) read over the background info contained in the Lab Sheet Annotations, then you'd have received the explanation so I took that to mean that you had not recently (possibly ever) read through the LSA.

5) My suggestion to make a copy of the Lab Sheet-Level Chart and use sticky notes to keep up with what's where was meant to help with the "can never keep straight what colors are what numbers unless I match them up" part, but I now realize that you were referring to the CRods, not the books (which have colors, NOT numbers). My apologies

6) You express that you want to use this program because it is highly recommended. So I was hoping to show you how you could actually get use from the program, not mock you.

 

7) After making the above comments, you concluded the OP by asking:

  • How much involvement is needed from the parent?"
  • Can I just give it to him to figure out?
  • Will it matter that I don't get it?

 

And Miquon s a K-2/1st-3rd grade program so I didn't know what to make of that line of questioning. Miquon is intended to be used by a facilitator and the target audience is 5-8 year olds..

 

 

Yes, Miquon requires a facilitator. No, there is no reason you need to study the annotations with a pencil in hand to take notes. Its not that hard!

"Deep reading" detailed instructions and explanations isn't about something being hard. Its about taking the time to really understand, both the program and the material presented in that program.

 

Both the author and I agree on the practice of first time TEACHERS working through the Miquon books, ahead of their students...Its not because its expected that the teachers themselves can't do arithmetic, but most of them will not have learned this method or experienced arithmetic in this way.

 

The way you develop an intuition or a "feel" for something like Miquon, in my experience, is to do it. Math is not a spectator sport. Math Teaching is a "roll up your sleeves" endeavor.  Sideline teaching, in my experience, is sterile/detached and a drag on both teacher and student.

 

So you and I may have to agree to disagree on whether or not pencil in hand/taking notes is warranted.

 

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We used Minquon as a supplement (Sinapore was our main math) when the dc's were little and looking back one of the best things about Minqoun was it offered a bit of creativity. They really enjoyed the freedom of it and loved playing with the crods. I bought several other crod books to play with also.

 

Yes, I eventually had Annotations but was originally told I didn't need it so we started off just interpreting the directions ourselves. My dd, now 17, was an early reader and one of the best things I did as a homeschool mom is have her read those directions and look at the page and tell me what she needed to do to complete the page. It was a great self confidence booster for her and carried over into her other school work. When I finally bought Annotations we discovered some of those pages had been done incorrectly in the sense that they weren't used as intended by Minquon but the math was right for how we meant to use them. Ds followed in the same way. We only looked at Annotations when a page was utterly mystifying to all....Minquon was fun for my kids and helped make math something that both my kids consider to be fun not hard.

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Thank you so much everyone who was kind enough to offer helpful advice! It is much appreciated!

 

Mathmarm I don't understand why you want to criticize and take apart my post. I was very clear that it is not intuitive to me so it has been neglected on a shelf. It's great that you are mathy and you get Miquon but why the need to attack me because I don't? I was attempting to ask for help in utilizing Miquon but you are just trying to make me feel bad that I don't get it. This board has been an amazing resource for me and I have been so grateful for the wonderful advice I have received here and I try to give back by posting when I can offer something. I have no idea what you're getting out of your attack but it's certainly not meant to help me.

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Check out the free online Gattegno textbooks. (I'm on my phone so not easy to post the link). It gives lesson plans via verbal instructions instead of "intuitive worksheets". It makes much more sense to me, and seems easier to see how to implement it!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I think the rods are more useful than whatever curriculum that goes with it. If Miquon isn't working for you, try one of the other resources people have already suggested. 

 

The Gattegno books are great (free ones are available online, but they're also sold, so IDK how legal the free versions are), also watch his videos on YouTube, so you get an idea on how the rods are meant to be used. 

 

Education Unboxed videos are a great resource, and you can copy what she does and do the same with your son. 

 

Maybe search for a cheap workbook designed for the rods?

 

This blog post has loads of resources: http://www.arithmophobianomore.com/the-ultimate-cuisenaire-gattegno-resource-list/

 

What you really need to do is get familiar with the rods yourself. Play with them with your son, try and memories the colour names and numbers. If you really struggle make yourself a cheat sheet to refer to? 

 

As for trying to get Miquon to work for you, rather than trying to read a bunch of annotations at a time, maybe sit down with one page and go through it slowly. Work out the answers for yourself. You'd probably find that after doing that a couple of times you get the hang of it, and can get through the rest a lot faster. 

 

 

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Mathmarm I don't understand why you want to criticize and take apart my post. I was very clear that it is not intuitive to me so it has been neglected on a shelf. It's great that you are mathy and you get Miquon but why the need to attack me because I don't? I was attempting to ask for help in utilizing Miquon but you are just trying to make me feel bad that I don't get it. This board has been an amazing resource for me and I have been so grateful for the wonderful advice I have received here and I try to give back by posting when I can offer something. I have no idea what you're getting out of your attack but it's certainly not meant to help me.

 

I'm sorry, I'm clearly not doing a good job communicating with you through the text. I'm very sorry EM, I really am sorry because you are clearly upset but I'm not trying to upset  you in any way.

 

After this post, I'm going to let this topic rest, but I have to say something now because I'm probably one of the most sensitive people on this message board, so I am extra ashamed to think that I'm hurting someone else. I've been reduced to tears by some of the things that posters have said to me and I have taken board breaks to avoid the stress I often feel to do things "right" or from doing things wrong.

 

I know that I'm very sensitive, so I am very sad that I'm possibly making you feel the same way that I do at times.

Its never my intention to harm a fellow human being with my words.

 

This forum is meant as a place of support and learning and camaraderie. I'm ashamed that I have fouled up the board-air for you.

 

When I read where you said that my 1st post had offended you, I wrote the second because thought that it would help to clarify both:

  • why I had recommended that you take the time to "READ" the LSA manual (it's the way that the author recommended and the way that is working for me.) 
  • how I had misunderstood your Original post. I was not meaning to assume the worst of you at all, I didn't think you were a bad mom or anything like that, I just thought "Oh, Miquon is great (so far) but she's going to have really read that manual, though" and that is the spirit in which I wrote my FIRST reply.

I thought I was throwing in some quick tips on how to make it easier to read/reference the LSA if you can't juggle all the books and stuff. I also recognized that not everyone can or even wants to sit and work through a math book (or 7, as is the case of Miquon).

 

Different things work for different people, we can't always make what we imagine is "the best" work with "real life" so sometimes we switch gears. I'm a crummy early elementary teacher, personally. Personally I need everything all in one place or super easy to implement to do reading...and phonics....and history and science....and... :blushing: I wasn't meaning to insult you. Some subjects more than others, I need too be spoon-fed how to teach/facilitate it until I get my "sea-legs" about me with that material/program/subject.

 

I apologize because my initial reply was written in haste, it was not well constructed so it comes out "blunt" (read: rude) but I meant it in the complete opposite tone/light. Nothing that I have posted in this thread was meant as an attack, though you clearly feel the need to defend yourself. I'm sorry about that.

 

I decomposed your OP in my second reply because I was hoping that you could see where the miscommunicaton on BOTH of our parts occurred. From your OP, I gathered that you wanted to use Miquon for your child, but I did not understand that you were already reading and "working" the LSA.

 

My first post was meant to encourage you to do a deep and involved reading of the LSA, like the author recommends, in order to better determine if this program is a fit for you and your family. Even if you don't go with Miqoun, you'll probably find some neat ways to use the cRods above and beyond those lab sheets.

 

I've got degrees in Math and a career in math and I felt that I needed to read it. So seriously, I'm not judging or trying to attack you. I am really sorry for all the hurt feelings EM.

 

If it helps: I am reading the LSA and working with the rods, they are not intuitive to me. I am working to understand the program because I am impressed and am determined to use what is probably one of the "best" programs that'd work for my family. I was not trying to offend you. My posts weren't meant to attack/offend/insult/mock you--or anyone else--in anyway.

 

I am not trying to make you feel attack. You can see here that *I* did not get Crods either. Personally, my solution to not "getting" the rods was to get some rods, get a book and work through it. I am working through Miquon myself. I have a few other cRod resources in mind for when I get stuck or want to learn more about going 'off script' with cRods.

 

While I do disagree with anyone who thinks that a "deep reading" of the LSA--or any other teachers manual--is overkill, that is not anything I'd intentionally attack anyone over. I have advanced degrees in math and I am finding it necessary, in order to properly understand the program, the method and my role as the teacher/facilitator for this program because Miquon use of the cRods and the exploratory math learning philosophy, are--as far as I know--unique.

 

Due to my experience and training, I could definitely teach/lecture on a broad range of math from the top of my head, but I can't teach Miquon without prepping it. I don't know...Maybe most parents who post here don't usually read and study the teacher manuals for the early grades. Personally I'm finding it necessary.

 

I have to read and understand the manuals because ability to effortlessly DO PreK-2 math and reading has not translated to an ability to effortlessly TEACH preK-2 math and reading. Understanding quantities and fractions has not made teaching/implementing Miquon effortless either.  It is also possible that I personally need to do more work than a lot of the other moms to find my "teaching legs"...

 

Hopefully EM, you will interpret this post in the spirit in which it is meant. Regardless, I will stop posting on this matter as I am not trying to irritate or insult you or anyone else. If this post has made you feel attacked as well, then I will delete it post-haste, it is not my intention.

 

May blessings of peaceful moments, love and happy shower down on you and your family throughout your day.

 

 

-mm

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I just had to pull out my teacher manual to get through a page in the E section--my issue is that my son is starting to not 'get' what they're teaching and I don't know if he's just not ready or is especially...not mathy...but I'm wondering if we shouldn't put it away for a while? Maybe he is too young (almost 6)? It started out helping him so much with figuring out his PS math (we are finishing out the school year), but suddenly is endlessly frustrating. :/ Anyway, sorry to hijack, just commiserating! I worry if we stop for a while we will have to go back and redo pages to remind him of what we've covered, and that would stink...because I did not buy the PDF version, lol.

 

ETA But also, my kid caught onto the number/color pattern way sooner than I did, I was shocked! I still forget which are 7/8/9, heh.

Edited by lindsey
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I think the ideas expressed by Mathmarm are very constructive, represent a good deal of time and thought, and are sound advice offered in a positive spirit.

 

Among the things that help young people have excellent starts in their math educations is having teachers/parents who can add value and enrichment as the foundation is laid. Math education in school is rightly criticized when there are teachers who are "non-mathy" and who just don't get it.

 

The Miquon teachers materials have a dense amount of material for facilitators/parents/teaches to study. The study extents far past the notes/annotations on individual lab-sheets (which have their own merit in making some objectives more clear) in being a re-education for adults who may not have had a rich conceptual math education themselves, and—even if they did—might struggle to communicate "complex" ideas to students in a fashion that young people can understand and make their own.

 

The Miquon path is not the easiest one for a parent/facilitator/teacher. For what I've seen of elementary math programs, the opposite is true. Miquon is demanding. It generally requires study before on "gets it." This study can apply both to the math concepts themselves, and also to the pedological method of using discovery, games, manipulatives, and creating math-lab activities that promote hands-on learning that puts the burden of reasoning on the student. This is harder than direct instruction.

 

Miquon can be "hard to get." In the past I've related how when the package first arrived in my home I had a moment of panic. I felt some of the pages looked like an "alien-IQ test." and I feared I wasn't smart enough to teach it. But much of the strangeness was superficial. If strange figures were replaced by "bunnies and bees." the section on "sets" would not look daunting.

 

For me there was a process of reading and thinking before I had my "lightbulb moment." For me reading the First Grade Diary as a breezy read-through (one can take the opportunity for a second pass to glean specific ideas) gave me the "big picture" of how Lore Rasmussen taught, and inspired me to find my style. The key being how do you communicate with a child who is seeing most of this for the first time? What is the general road map? How can you inspire a passion for learning? How do you make things comprehensible? How do you make it fun?

 

The approach is not a "just get 'er done" method. The time investment pays huge dividends IMO. I believe it was life-changing for my son (and me). But it requires a lot of work.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

Edited by Spy Car
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I didn't get Miquon either though we've used some of the sheets I did get for fun. We ended up using Singapore as well as using the cuisenaire rods and education unboxed videos. I didn't have the time to invest in learning Miquon at the time.

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  • 1 month later...

Did you buy the diary ? I think I couldnt teach my kids as well if I didnt study the notes and diary .

 

The diary is where I figured it all out.  It was very helpful.

 

Some of the math gets really advanced!  I've had to sit down with them and find creative ways to explain a concept that's over their heads.

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