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Hello.  My family lives in Washington State.  There's a minimum 1,000 hours or 180 days OR both here.  Can somebody please tell me how you fill in this requirement?  My eldest is only in the first grade and to do 3-5 hours a day of school work seems like a lot.  We average 70-90 minutes a day.  He has a reading time besides and we also read at night.  That adds up to over 2 hours a day.  I figure I can also add house chores, trips and physical education to that and roughly come close.  How do other folks here do it?  Also do you have to meet the 1,000 hour rule if you school for more than 180 days a year?  Thanks!

 

 

P.S.  Does anybody else here use "Classic Starts"?

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I would go for 180 days. Are you going to the park on Saturday? That's science. The store on Tuesday? That's math. Honestly doing home economics covers about 340 days a year so I think you're good. I'm not familiar with Washington's oversight though. That might not cut it.

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Hello.  My family lives in Washington State.  There's a minimum 1,000 hours or 180 days OR both here.  Can somebody please tell me how you fill in this requirement?  My eldest is only in the first grade and to do 3-5 hours a day of school work seems like a lot.  We average 70-90 minutes a day.  He has a reading time besides and we also read at night.  That adds up to over 2 hours a day.  I figure I can also add house chores, trips and physical education to that and roughly come close.  How do other folks here do it?  Also do you have to meet the 1,000 hour rule if you school for more than 180 days a year?  Thanks!

 

 

P.S.  Does anybody else here use "Classic Starts"?

 

180 days for sure. My kids are in public school in WA. I guarantee you they spend some days doing all-school assemblies (counts), field trips (counts), testing (counts), review (counts).

 

I would also count any remotely educational videos and PE.

 

Any conversation that you are having during "school hours" such as "why does this do that" counts. It's more than my daughter is getting most of the time at our public school (one teacher 27 kids) and it's a great school.

 

Make sure the coloring books are vaguely academic. Counts. My kids bring home pictures of animals they colored in K, 1st, 2nd. Counts. Singing songs that rhyme? Counts! At least in our public schools in WA it does. :) Talking about social skills and socio-emotional learning (i.e. "Please do not hit your sister with that sticky hand, that is not kind, how do you think that makes her feel?") Counts!

 

Edit:

 

  • Math games on the iPad while you poop? Counts!
  • Lego while you feed the baby? Ask the child why he put the ones he did at the bottom. Counts!
  • Classical music in the car? Ask the child if he hears a violin. Counts!
  • Recess? Counts!

 

Edited by Tsuga
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Washington has a stipulation that those days can be ANYTIME throughout the year and that instruction may differ in style and general feel than traditional schooling. This means if you go to the zoo, library, doctor, dentist, museum, fire station, just about anywhere, it can count. Especially for a first grader, the 11 required subjects make this very open. The grocery store can count as both health and math. The park, PE. Writing a thank you card to Grandma, writing and English. Just about every waking second could count in first grade.

 

The 1,000 hours is based on the average number of hours those 180 days should fill up when the child is significantly older. My child does quite a stack of untraditional schoolwork. We are getting very close to switching over to 1,000 hours instead of 180 days. It will just be simpler.

 

Depending on if you use a charter or are freestyling, the oversight is a sliding scale. Washington's Alternative Learning Educational funding is in sketchy territory right now, meaning charters are in a bind and want rather significant documentation. This is more the state than the charter, but it still hits you. If you are going solo, the only times I have ever seen ANYONE care is during legal divorce or CPS battles. The state is rather liberatarian about these matters. Handle yourself and they stay pretty hands off. Decide to not make great choices or need then to intervene, and, well, they get picky ver quickly.

 

In high school it REALLY, REALLY matters. Public schools have extremely strict guidelines about credit alottment, re-entry, and tracks. Depending on the district, it can start as early as middle school. For first grade, have fun!

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Depending on if you use a charter or are freestyling, the oversight is a sliding scale. Washington's Alternative Learning Educational funding is in sketchy territory right now, meaning charters are in a bind and want rather significant documentation. This is more the state than the charter, but it still hits you. If you are going solo, the only times I have ever seen ANYONE care is during legal divorce or CPS battles. The state is rather liberatarian about these matters. Handle yourself and they stay pretty hands off. Decide to not make great choices or need then to intervene, and, well, they get picky ver quickly.

 

 

But if your dc are enrolled in a *charter* school, that's a public school, right? Then you no longer are complying with the *homeschool* laws but with public school requirements.

 

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Hello.  My family lives in Washington State.  There's a minimum 1,000 hours or 180 days OR both here.  Can somebody please tell me how you fill in this requirement?  My eldest is only in the first grade and to do 3-5 hours a day of school work seems like a lot.  We average 70-90 minutes a day.  He has a reading time besides and we also read at night.  That adds up to over 2 hours a day.  I figure I can also add house chores, trips and physical education to that and roughly come close.  How do other folks here do it?  Also do you have to meet the 1,000 hour rule if you school for more than 180 days a year?  Thanks!

 

 

 

You are not required to comply with any homeschool laws until your dc is 8yo. I'm assuming your dc is only 6 or 7, so you don't need to worry about that yet.

 

The requirement is 180 days or an average of 1000 hours, not both. There is no requirement to prove that to anyone. Personally, I could not get worked up over something I didn't have to prove to anyone.

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In our state, we have a requirement of 1,000 hours and we have to keep a log. We never had any trouble filling the 1,000 hours. School work does not mean sitting at a table filling out work sheets.

In elementary school I would count any educational activities as "school":

music lessons, singing together

nature study, nature walks in a state park

visits to museums, science centers, live theatre, concerts

reading aloud

drawing

sports

math games

practical arts: baking, cooking, gardening, building things

I cannot imagine NOT having several hours of educational activities in a day.

 

Over the years, the proportion of seat work increases. But even so, doing 200 days of 5 hours is not really a problem.

Edited by regentrude
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PA is 180 days or 900 hours. (990 for high school.)  I've ALWAYS gone with the 180.  Some of those days may be an hour of Snap Circuits and a hike through the woods while others may be 8 or 9 hours of reading, writing, and math (for my older kids, not the littles!)

 

Counting actual hours would make me nuts.  What if my son does 18 minutes of spelling and 34 minutes of math?!  What if someone stops doing something while I'm working with another kid and I don't notice?!  What if my dd stays up reading after I go to bed?!  What if my kid can get 3 hours worth of work done in 2?!  What if it takes my kid 45 minutes to slog through 5 math problems because he's being a butt that day?!

 

Way too much unnecessary stress!

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I stressed about this when my oldest was in 1st grade, but now I look back and wonder why I wasted my emotional energy. Formal, traditional school style desk work was 1-2 hours/day. One on one help with projects, interests, chores, instructions in proper behavior or manners, and instant answers to random curiosity questions-endless. Read alouds, trips to the library, community classes, library puppet shows or other programs, PE skills (swimming, bike riding, playing ball, tumbling, games with other kids), family board games, Sunday school lessons, extracurriculars, free days at local museums, educational TV programs (thank you PBS kids, Jack Hannah, and Netflix!), alone time to create something out of Legos, pretend play dramas with dress up clothes or stuffed animals, and quiet walks to soak in all that can be seen, heard, touched, and smelled in nature-endless.

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Oh, the wisdom of moms and dads who've actually been there!  LOL

 

Thanks so much for all your replies.  I guess I was worrying a bit too much.  I was under the impression it's 180 days AND 1,000 hours average a year.  The law doesn't seem clear.  But I agree counting the hours and minutes would drive any parent nuts. 

 

Yes, my eldest is only 6 years old and in first grade.  I just reviewed the 11 required subjects, so we'll start adding those too.  We've been doing only Language Arts (to include reading, writing, grammar, spelling), Math, Science, World History and Geography.   Plus a little bit of drawing.  I think I'll record the "sitting" work and then estimate the more informal instruction separately (exercise, chores, field trips, shopping, everything else).

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Oh, the wisdom of moms and dads who've actually been there!  LOL

 

Thanks so much for all your replies.  I guess I was worrying a bit too much.  I was under the impression it's 180 days AND 1,000 hours average a year.  The law doesn't seem clear.  But I agree counting the hours and minutes would drive any parent nuts. 

 

Yes, my eldest is only 6 years old and in first grade.  I just reviewed the 11 required subjects, so we'll start adding those too.  We've been doing only Language Arts (to include reading, writing, grammar, spelling), Math, Science, World History and Geography.   Plus a little bit of drawing.  I think I'll record the "sitting" work and then estimate the more informal instruction separately (exercise, chores, field trips, shopping, everything else).

 

Please remember that you are not required to have *any* subjects at all, as well as not having to keep track of hours at all. Not until your dc is 8yo will you have to do that.

 

HSLDA's information is pretty clear about the days vs hours thing, both here and here.

 

Which "11 required subjects" are you adding that you weren't already doing? (even though you are not required to do anything at this point). Also, the law does not specify to what extent you need to do anything. Furthermore, I think you're being a little obsessed with the requirements of the law, girl friend. If you look at the list of "required subjects" I'm pretty sure you would cover all of those at some point in your dc's life, because all of them are so basic whether they were written in the law somewhere or not. You need to trust yourself more. :-)

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Please remember that you are not required to have *any* subjects at all, as well as not having to keep track of hours at all. Not until your dc is 8yo will you have to do that.

 

HSLDA's information is pretty clear about the days vs hours thing, both here and here.

 

Which "11 required subjects" are you adding that you weren't already doing? (even though you are not required to do anything at this point). Also, the law does not specify to what extent you need to do anything. Furthermore, I think you're being a little obsessed with the requirements of the law, girl friend. If you look at the list of "required subjects" I'm pretty sure you would cover all of those at some point in your dc's life, because all of them are so basic whether they were written in the law somewhere or not. You need to trust yourself more. :-)

This is not completely accurate. Once a child is enrolled anywhere, at all, in Washington then they are to be reported. Age is irrelevent. If you never enroll, then age 8. If you enroll in Kindergarten, then every year after that. You are required to report to someone in our state if they ask (and they can at any time). You have to have attendence (a check list of days or log of hours), documentation of the 11 subjects (pretty losely interpreted), immunization record, annual testing for math and English, and permanent record from years previous.

 

As for the charter question: a charter is considered an Alternative Learning Environment which is held to the same reporting standards as homeschooled students. Homeschooled students fall into this designation legally. The records are maintained and monitored by the umbrella charter, but often provided by the parent. In these instances, where parent is primary educator and charter is oversight, the parent falls into legal question as much as the school. In Washington, if for some reason you are called into question for alternatively educating, ducks need to be in military style rows. They are not playing around. It takes quite a bit to get yourself in that situation, but covering your butt ahead of time is important. HSDLA can say anything they want. The law is the law. I used to do this as a profession, in Washington. They could give a rat's behind if the student is considered "public schooled." That is only about funding. Homeschool style charters and homeschoolers are ALE kids and they are the same in court. Public virtual school kids are different. Music, Tech, magnet style charters are different. Umbrella homeschool charters are not treated well in court.

 

However, Ellie, none of that even matters in this situation. It is technical hair splitting. Bluejay just needs to keep an attendence, have a couple work samples, love your kids, try not to get a divorce, and test every year for english and math. You will be fine. Get a bit more picky with yourself as they get older and you won't have a shock when middle and high school hits. Washington is one of the most lenient states unless you screw up your kid's something royal.

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But if your dc are enrolled in a *charter* school, that's a public school, right? Then you no longer are complying with the *homeschool* laws but with public school requirements.

 

I answered this above, but can do here as well. In Washington, the designation is VERY murky depending on which style of charter you use. It boils down to the budget deficit and the McCleary decision putting quite a lot of pressure on education. In the end none of it matters unless you find yourself in court. Once there, no one could give a rip whether the family is using an umbrella homeschool charter or is homeschooled. Educational neglect falls to the parent who signs off as "primary educational provider" in the legal documents you sign to enroll. This means the school is merely responsible for holding the documentation PROVIDED BY THE PARENT OR HOUSEHOLD. Parents are required to document, keep documents, and defend themselves in court. The public school designation is useful in many ways, but not legally. I have seen this happen multiple times. It is nit picky hair splitting and a ridiculous arguement that these children are not homeschooled. Courts here, at least, treat them as such.

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This is not completely accurate. Once a child is enrolled anywhere, at all, in Washington then they are to be reported. Age is irrelevent. If you never enroll, then age 8. If you enroll in Kindergarten, then every year after that. You are required to report to someone in our state if they ask (and they can at any time). You have to have attendence (a check list of days or log of hours), documentation of the 11 subjects (pretty losely interpreted), immunization record, annual testing for math and English, and permanent record from years previous.

 

As for the charter question: a charter is considered an Alternative Learning Environment which is held to the same reporting standards as homeschooled students. Homeschooled students fall into this designation legally. The records are maintained and monitored by the umbrella charter, but often provided by the parent. In these instances, where parent is primary educator and charter is oversight, the parent falls into legal question as much as the school. In Washington, if for some reason you are called into question for alternatively educating, ducks need to be in military style rows. They are not playing around. It takes quite a bit to get yourself in that situation, but covering your butt ahead of time is important. HSDLA can say anything they want. The law is the law. I used to do this as a profession, in Washington. They could give a rat's behind if the student is considered "public schooled." That is only about funding. Homeschool style charters and homeschoolers are ALE kids and they are the same in court. Public virtual school kids are different. Music, Tech, magnet style charters are different. Umbrella homeschool charters are not treated well in court.

 

However, Ellie, none of that even matters in this situation. It is technical hair splitting. Bluejay just needs to keep an attendence, have a couple work samples, love your kids, try not to get a divorce, and test every year for english and math. You will be fine. Get a bit more picky with yourself as they get older and you won't have a shock when middle and high school hits. Washington is one of the most lenient states unless you screw up your kid's something royal.

 

But the OP's child has not been enrolled in school anywhere, so that isn't an issue.

 

I don't see in the law where it says that parents must keep attendance or document the subjects taught or keep work samples. Even if that were so, there is no requirement to show those records to anyone, so my opinion remains unchanged. I'm all in favor of complying with the law, but I am also in favor of not overcomplying with the law, especially with a child who is only 6yo and has never been enrolled in school.

 

That's kind of a snarky statement about HSLDA, which is, after all, an organization that is made up of attorneys who not only study the law but who have uncounted hours of experience in all aspects of advocating for homeschoolers.

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I'm confused now.  Does this mean we need to file a declaration of intent even before our children turn 8 years old?  If we homeschool at home without enrolling our kids in any system or program, does that still apply? 

 

On this page, they seem to be saying there's no need to if the child is under 8 years old.  http://washhomeschool.org/homeschooling/declaration-of-intent/

 

So... time to join HSLDA? 

 

Also is it going to be an issue when we file a declaration of intent when our child turns 8 and he is in 2nd grade?  Would they ask "Where's K and first grade?"

Edited by bluejay
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I'm not familiar with WA state laws on HSing, but here's an idea for your record-keeping:

 

1. Get a three-ring binder, and put in tabs for:

  • Attendance
  • Testing: Math
  • Testing: English
  • Medical
  • Subject tabs, labelled for each of the required 11 subjects
  • Legal

2. Behind the Attendance tab, put in a simple calendar for your school year (from when it starts to when it ends). Each day you do anything that can be considered "school," you just write the number of the school day you're on (e.g., Day 45). Since you don't have to log hours (unless that is how you choose to do it), when you reach Day 180, you have met the requirement.

 

3. Behind the Testing tabs, place any test results.

 

4. Behind the Medical tab, place a copy of the student's immunization records.

 

5. Behind the Subject tabs, place examples of work, reading logs, names of texts and resources used, or summaries of what you have done (but check the law first to be sure this isn't overkill).

 

6. Behind the Legal tab, place a copy of your state's homeschool laws, your HSLDA membership (if you have it), and/or contact information for any homeschool help group for your state.

Edited by Sahamamama
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I'm confused now. Does this mean we need to file a declaration of intent even before our children turn 8 years old? If we homeschool at home without enrolling our kids in any system or program, does that still apply?

 

On this page, they seem to be saying there's no need to if the child is under 8 years old. http://washhomeschool.org/homeschooling/declaration-of-intent/

 

So... time to join HSLDA?

 

Also is it going to be an issue when we file a declaration of intent when our child turns 8 and he is in 2nd grade? Would they ask "Where's K and first grade?"

No. No need. This is one of the reasons why more information is not necessarily better. It is only if you have already enrolled your child somewhere. My child was enrolled in a homeschool charter at 4. From that point on, no matter what type of education he recieved, he had to be documented. If you have never done it, declare at 8, no need for grade level, just a simple form.

 

You don't need HSLDA membership, unless you have some reason to think someone is going to report you for educational neglect.

 

You only need a simple binder of about six documents and a couple work samples. No one in Washington really cares. The only point of my post was that you NEED to keep those few documents. If you get a divorce, they are needed. If you have an instance where someone dies, or you fall on extremely hard times and the kids have to go into school, they are needed. If something happens with your kid and you are ever in question, they are needed. Don't play around with it. Just jump through the hoops, because they are really minimal.

 

Lots of people love to tell you that you never have to have the paperwork, no one can ask for it, there is no legal action anyone can take. It is a lie. They are uninformed. I know this from professional experience. 97 percent of people will never need it. However, when you do, life generally sucks. Things are not fun. Not having the simple paperwork will make everything much worse. It can be asked for. Probably never will be, but it can be.

 

It is like a tax audit. You will probably never be audited unless you are doing something fishy. No one really askes for the paperwork at most any time. But, man, if you are called into question you want your paperwork to be together. So you keep your last 7 years in some box or file cabinet somewhere, onk think about it once a year, and just call it good.

 

That is all I meant. I did not mean to derail your thread with legal minutia.

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I'm confused now.  Does this mean we need to file a declaration of intent even before our children turn 8 years old?  If we homeschool at home without enrolling our kids in any system or program, does that still apply? 

 

On this page, they seem to be saying there's no need to if the child is under 8 years old.  http://washhomeschool.org/homeschooling/declaration-of-intent/

 

So... time to join HSLDA? 

 

Also is it going to be an issue when we file a declaration of intent when our child turns 8 and he is in 2nd grade?  Would they ask "Where's K and first grade?"

 

No, you do not need to file a declaration of intent until your dc is 8 years old. The information on the link is correct.

 

Of course it won't be an issue when you file your DOI. Why would they even know there wasn't K or 1st? (which there was, of course). 

 

IMHO, anyone who is homeschooling should be a member of HSLDA, but in your case, it wouldn't be because things are weird and wacky in Washington. :-)

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But the OP's child has not been enrolled in school anywhere, so that isn't an issue.

 

I don't see in the law where it says that parents must keep attendance or document the subjects taught or keep work samples. Even if that were so, there is no requirement to show those records to anyone, so my opinion remains unchanged. I'm all in favor of complying with the law, but I am also in favor of not overcomplying with the law, especially with a child who is only 6yo and has never been enrolled in school.

 

That's kind of a snarky statement about HSLDA, which is, after all, an organization that is made up of attorneys who not only study the law but who have uncounted hours of experience in all aspects of advocating for homeschoolers.

I am not getting into this with you. It does not matter to me how you see the issue. I have worked in public school charters which are umbrellas for homeschoolers in Washington. I attended one. P I have homeschooled using one. I have homeschooled without one. My husband currently works in alternative education in Washington. In have been involved in legal cases over homeschooled kids where documentation made the difference in both good ways, and other cases in bad ones. I have been involved with HSLDA in these matters and without them there. I have testified in homeschool/public umbrella educational neglect cases, worked with CPS on homeschooling, and in general spent over a decade doing this. You truly do not know what you are talking about. That is fine, but reading a document online and then telling someone that they do not need vital paperwork which could make a very bad situation worse is not helpful.

 

I'm not arguing it and I am not going to derail the thread further.

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IMHO, anyone who is homeschooling should be a member of HSLDA, ...

 

Homeschooling is legal in every state in the US, and has been for many years now.  Regardless of where you live in the US, if you know your state law and comply with it, educate your children and do not abuse them, and are capable of politely dealing with administrators who are asking for something that is not required (in person, by phone, or by writing a professional letter setting them straight), then it is very, very unlikely that you will need a lawyer.  We generally do not spend money in advance "just in case" on lawyers for other issues that might come up (divorce, insurance woes, etc.), we wait until we are actually faced with the particular issue.  We can do the same for homeschooling.

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No. No need. This is one of the reasons why more information is not necessarily better. It is only if you have already enrolled your child somewhere. My child was enrolled in a homeschool charter at 4. From that point on, no matter what type of education he recieved, he had to be documented. If you have never done it, declare at 8, no need for grade level, just a simple form.

 

You don't need HSLDA membership, unless you have some reason to think someone is going to report you for educational neglect.

 

You only need a simple binder of about six documents and a couple work samples. No one in Washington really cares. The only point of my post was that you NEED to keep those few documents. If you get a divorce, they are needed. If you have an instance where someone dies, or you fall on extremely hard times and the kids have to go into school, they are needed. If something happens with your kid and you are ever in question, they are needed. Don't play around with it. Just jump through the hoops, because they are really minimal.

 

Lots of people love to tell you that you never have to have the paperwork, no one can ask for it, there is no legal action anyone can take. It is a lie. They are uninformed. I know this from professional experience. 97 percent of people will never need it. However, when you do, life generally sucks. Things are not fun. Not having the simple paperwork will make everything much worse. It can be asked for. Probably never will be, but it can be.

 

It is like a tax audit. You will probably never be audited unless you are doing something fishy. No one really askes for the paperwork at most any time. But, man, if you are called into question you want your paperwork to be together. So you keep your last 7 years in some box or file cabinet somewhere, onk think about it once a year, and just call it good.

 

That is all I meant. I did not mean to derail your thread with legal minutia.

Incidentally, taking PHOTOS of work and activities and uploading them will provide anyone with a detailed level of activity sufficient through grade 3 if your goal is "documentation for emergencies" as EOO is describing. It's easier and more fun than a grade book and will be just as acceptable as a grade book / journal, if not more so, for legal documentation.

 

Photos of end of quarter math diagnostic results, photos of science activities, museums, music lessons, drawings of a happy family, at the local history museum. Week by week that is what I did for my divorce (long story) and it is fine for that type of thing. We also have used this in reporting.

 

So I would not sweat documentation. Picture of math/Eng/etc daily gets you a lot. Uploading saves the date stamp. File under homeschooling log and voila.

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Thank you!  I appreciate everybody's thoughts.   I totally agree we should keep records of our homeschooling.  It is better to have them around and not need them than to need them and not have them.  I don't think EndOfOrdinary wants to scare anybody or hijack a thread-- it is good to hear things from people who've had these experiences professionally or personally.  But I also appreciate Ellie's advice not to stress too much over everything.  (I do that far too much already!)

 

I wasn't under the impression HSLDA is only for "high-risk" families.  I thought they help people comply with and understand the laws, maybe refer you to parent-qualifying courses that meet legal requirements, offer member discounts on school supplies, etc.  I would hate to join that group if it would only make it look like my family feels guilty about something.  :confused1:

 

Anyway, back to filling up the hours...  I teach most of the subjects to our eldest, but DH handles a lot of the life skills, occupational and health education plus he helps teach the little one.  I figure since I crash the car and burn the pots all the time I'd leave those to him.  lol  :laugh:

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Incidentally, taking PHOTOS of work and activities and uploading them will provide anyone with a detailed level of activity sufficient through grade 3 if your goal is "documentation for emergencies" as EOO is describing. It's easier and more fun than a grade book and will be just as acceptable as a grade book / journal, if not more so, for legal documentation.

 

Photos of end of quarter math diagnostic results, photos of science activities, museums, music lessons, drawings of a happy family, at the local history museum. Week by week that is what I did for my divorce (long story) and it is fine for that type of thing. We also have used this in reporting.

 

So I would not sweat documentation. Picture of math/Eng/etc daily gets you a lot. Uploading saves the date stamp. File under homeschooling log and voila.

 

Huh.  I didn't think of that.  Another life experience to learn from!  Thanks!

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Thank you!  I appreciate everybody's thoughts.   I totally agree we should keep records of our homeschooling.  It is better to have them around and not need them than to need them and not have them.  I don't think EndOfOrdinary wants to scare anybody or hijack a thread-- it is good to hear things from people who've had these experiences professionally or personally.  But I also appreciate Ellie's advice not to stress too much over everything.  (I do that far too much already!)

 

I wasn't under the impression HSLDA is only for "high-risk" families.  I thought they help people comply with and understand the laws, maybe refer you to parent-qualifying courses that meet legal requirements, offer member discounts on school supplies, etc.  I would hate to join that group if it would only make it look like my family feels guilty about something.  :confused1:

 

Anyway, back to filling up the hours...  I teach most of the subjects to our eldest, but DH handles a lot of the life skills, occupational and health education plus he helps teach the little one.  I figure since I crash the car and burn the pots all the time I'd leave those to him.  lol  :laugh:

 

You are exactly right about the purpose of HSLDA. I can't imagine someone thinking that you would look guilty if you joined. That's just...weird. :huh:

 

And FTR, threads are "hi-jacked" all the time, just like real-life conversations. It's all good. :-) And it's especially good to hear strongly-held opinions on all sorts of things. People can disagree and still be friends. :-)

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If you are out and about in the world doing anything even remotely related to learning, I'd count that as a day and go for the 180 days option; I currently use a calendar checklist similar to the one mentioned above.  I am not required to keep attendance data, but I do because it is so simple and nearly effortless, and I've got an attendance record if doody ever hits the fan for God-only-knows-what-reason.

Hello.  My family lives in Washington State.  There's a minimum 1,000 hours or 180 days OR both here.  Can somebody please tell me how you fill in this requirement?  My eldest is only in the first grade and to do 3-5 hours a day of school work seems like a lot.  We average 70-90 minutes a day.  He has a reading time besides and we also read at night.  That adds up to over 2 hours a day.  I figure I can also add house chores, trips and physical education to that and roughly come close.  How do other folks here do it?  Also do you have to meet the 1,000 hour rule if you school for more than 180 days a year?  Thanks!

 

 

P.S.  Does anybody else here use "Classic Starts"?

 

Edited by reefgazer
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Hello.  My family lives in Washington State.  There's a minimum 1,000 hours or 180 days OR both here.  Can somebody please tell me how you fill in this requirement?  My eldest is only in the first grade and to do 3-5 hours a day of school work seems like a lot.  We average 70-90 minutes a day.  He has a reading time besides and we also read at night.  That adds up to over 2 hours a day.  I figure I can also add house chores, trips and physical education to that and roughly come close.  How do other folks here do it?  Also do you have to meet the 1,000 hour rule if you school for more than 180 days a year?  Thanks!

 

 

P.S.  Does anybody else here use "Classic Starts"?

 

When my kids were little, there were all kinds of things that I put down in our school record book (which was just a calendar with a page per month).  [i haven't tracked hours, but wanted to give examples what you might add/record]

 

You mention reading and time when you read to him.  

Do you do any math?  At this age, my kids were using a curriculum with a lot of hands on manipulatives.  We also had a "meeting time" where we did things like take note of the day of the week, the date, color in a square on the calendar and count some money.

 

I did record trips that I thought were significant, like museums, historical sites, or trips with an educational angle.  I didn't record every trip to the grocery store, even if they learned things when we were out and about.

 

YMMV

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When my kids were little, there were all kinds of things that I put down in our school record book (which was just a calendar with a page per month).  [i haven't tracked hours, but wanted to give examples what you might add/record]

 

You mention reading and time when you read to him.  

Do you do any math?  At this age, my kids were using a curriculum with a lot of hands on manipulatives.  We also had a "meeting time" where we did things like take note of the day of the week, the date, color in a square on the calendar and count some money.

 

I did record trips that I thought were significant, like museums, historical sites, or trips with an educational angle.  I didn't record every trip to the grocery store, even if they learned things when we were out and about.

 

YMMV

 

 

We do Saxon Math.  Honestly it's a nightmare trying to do everything in it because we started with it after DS had been doing first grade math for a while.  I would rather have BASIC directions and fact sheets, not detailed, scripted instructions.  They are far too much trouble for me.  I have an idea in my head how to teach a concept and I follow my instinct.  I can't keep looking down at the book to see what I have to say next.  Yes, I got the big Teacher's Edition.  There are NEAT ideas in it.  But I just skip around and check off everything DS knows on the table of contents. Plus, DS and I are more into  the "whole topic" than the "incremental" approach. :

 

DS loves hands on stuff like the abacus and counting coins, blocks, etc.  He likes filling out the Saxon fact cards too.  We also have number charts on the wall.  I do not have special manipulatives though.  Too expensive.

 

Yes, I'll start counting trips too!

 

Thanks for the ideas!

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You are exactly right about the purpose of HSLDA. I can't imagine someone thinking that you would look guilty if you joined. That's just...weird. :huh:

 

Right. There are a lot of people who aren't fans of HSLDA (it's a religious organization), but joining wouldn't make you look guilty of child/educational neglect. It's just that it's not *necessary* the way some people make it out to be.

 

Read your state law. Ask local homeschoolers if they could show you what they do (find local email lists or facebook groups or w/e - asking an international forum is not the most useful place for state/local guidance). For instance, I'm in WNY, and by asking locally I know which districts are more picky about some parts of state law than others, and which things are not issues anywhere (e.g. the 180 days thing we have is not an issue (I pretty much only remember it when I do my quarterly reports), but some districts make a deal of having a certified NY teacher review the kid's work for a narrative annual assessment, whereas others will just let parents write the annual assessment, or w/e - state law says a NY state certified teacher or other person mutually agreed upon by the parent and superintendent, with most districts agreeing that parents are mutually agreed upon by parents and superintendent).

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I'm in PA, rather than WA, but I totally just go for the 180 days instead of the hours, especially at the elementary level.  Did they do *anything* that could be documented as one of the required subjects?  Did they crack open a book of any decent quality, did they go to the store, did they go on a field trip anywhere, did they color, did they go to martial arts class, did they listen to any music?  And so on.  If they did even one of those things, I count the whole day as a school day.  Especially when they're young, everything they do enhances their learning and understanding of the world.  (I even believe there is value in the occasional day spent playing video games; I just don't count those as school days, because while I personally believe that they learn something 365 days a year, I also think that checking all of that off on a calendar is asking for my school district to give me a second look.  I'd rather just log my 200 or so days, not too many of which are weekends, and keep them off my back.)

 

Don't stress about it too much.

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Also is it going to be an issue when we file a declaration of intent when our child turns 8 and he is in 2nd grade?  Would they ask "Where's K and first grade?"

 

I know I'm in a different state, but mine's an "8" state, too.  I've registered 3 kids at age 8, and nobody's ever batted an eye.

(Actually, I registered my May babies when they were technically past 8.  :leaving:   I just declared, to myself, our school year finished before their birthdays  and registered them over the summer.)

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I have homeschooled in WA for 7 years, including 1.5 in a charter.

 

If your child is under 8 when the year starts you do not have to declare them, unless they have been enrolled in public school (this includes online public school like WAVA).

 

If you are not in an online public school the only tracking you have to do is the annual testing. Unless you are reported for neglect no one will ever ask for the results. I always do the test and keep two years worth of work (current and previous). That way I have proof of what we worked on. Unless they do really poorly on the test (and I mean really poor), you are fine. I can't remember what the number was but if my kid was anywhere that poorly I'd be looking at something different.

 

If you are using an online public school you don't have to use actual hours. If your kid finishes a math lesson in 15 minutes, you have done an hour of math. If it takes them 1.5 hours then they get credit for 1.5 hours. You are supposed to do 1 hour/1 lesson per day. This applies to all subjects, although the expected times are different for each subject. If you go on a field trip it counts. For example we went to the Science center today. That is 4 hours of math, science, and we could count health if they did the nutrition exhibit. We listened to an audiobook there and back so that is 1.5 hours of literature.

Edited by Plateau Mama
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Don't forget to include recess, lunch, bathroom time in that, and field trips and all the other stuff the public schools would do. Funday Friday, field day, pep rallies, etc. It is not just the book time. Any "specials" meaning..soccer, gymnastics, swimming, etc.

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I have homeschooled in WA for 7 years, including 1.5 in a charter.

 

If your child is under 8 when the year starts you do not have to declare them, unless they have been enrolled in public school (this includes online public school like WAVA).

 

If you are not in an online public school the only tracking you have to do is the annual testing. Unless you are reported for neglect no one will ever ask for the results. I always do the test and keep two years worth of work (current and previous). That way I have proof of what we worked on. Unless they do really poorly on the test (and I mean really poor), you are fine. I can't remember what the number was but if my kid was anywhere that poorly I'd be looking at something different.

 

If you are using a charter school you don't have to use actual hours. If your kid finishes a math lesson in 15 minutes, you have done an hour of math. If it takes them 1.5 hours then they get credit for 1.5 hours. You are supposed to do 1 hour/1 lesson per day. This applies to all subjects, although the expected times are different for each subject. If you go on a field trip it counts. For example we went to the Science center today. That is 4 hours of math, science, and we could count health if they did the nutrition exhibit. We listened to an audiobook there and back so that is 1.5 hours of literature.

 

Thank you!  That's kinda weird how the hours work, but I'm not complaining! 

 

My kids are both under 8.  Do I have to do annual testing for first grade and up?  Also what testing service do you recommend?  I'm also looking for a parent-qualifying course that meets WA requirements. That's one of the reasons I want to connect with a homeschooling organization.  Unfortunately, I've had no success finding a homeschooling group in my area.  I don't use Facebook or anything like that either.  And none of our neighbors homeschool. :(

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But if your dc are enrolled in a *charter* school, that's a public school, right? Then you no longer are complying with the *homeschool* laws but with public school requirements.

 

There are no home instruction charters here. Charters are new and have been deemed to break the state constitution so it looks like they are going away. ALE funding (Alternative Learning Environments) funding either on a FT basis (so public school) or PT basis is much older and is in no way tied to the changing charter territory. I'm very familiar and would not characterize it as being in jeopardy.

 

If at an ALE, you certify your hours without much detail. Some ALEs have parents enter their lesson plans for the hours they choose to report, others have a staff member who translates the unschooling and homeschooling stuff into educationese for their records.

 

Washington State allows homeschoolers to participate in pretty much any school PT. I know many homeschoolers who utilize the schools for 1-2 classes they can't do at home or for a special interest the student has (Japanese or a robotics team class for example).

Edited by LucyStoner
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I have homeschooled in WA for 7 years, including 1.5 in a charter.

 

If your child is under 8 when the year starts you do not have to declare them, unless they have been enrolled in public school (this includes online public school like WAVA).

 

If you are not in an online public school the only tracking you have to do is the annual testing. Unless you are reported for neglect no one will ever ask for the results. I always do the test and keep two years worth of work (current and previous). That way I have proof of what we worked on. Unless they do really poorly on the test (and I mean really poor), you are fine. I can't remember what the number was but if my kid was anywhere that poorly I'd be looking at something different.

 

If you are using a charter school you don't have to use actual hours. If your kid finishes a math lesson in 15 minutes, you have done an hour of math. If it takes them 1.5 hours then they get credit for 1.5 hours. You are supposed to do 1 hour/1 lesson per day. This applies to all subjects, although the expected times are different for each subject. If you go on a field trip it counts. For example we went to the Science center today. That is 4 hours of math, science, and we could count health if they did the nutrition exhibit. We listened to an audiobook there and back so that is 1.5 hours of literature.

I think you may be confusing our ALE system (which include parent partnership programs and also some alternative schools) with charters. Charters just started here due to initiative and are now going to be ending due to the court ruling. Some charters have already converted to private schools. ALEs have existed for a long time. Some of the ones that are designed to augment or support home based instruction are called Parent Partnerships and some are called Homeschool Resource Centers.

 

WAVA is not a charter.

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I'm confused now. Does this mean we need to file a declaration of intent even before our children turn 8 years old? If we homeschool at home without enrolling our kids in any system or program, does that still apply?

 

On this page, they seem to be saying there's no need to if the child is under 8 years old. http://washhomeschool.org/homeschooling/declaration-of-intent/

 

So... time to join HSLDA?

 

Also is it going to be an issue when we file a declaration of intent when our child turns 8 and he is in 2nd grade? Would they ask "Where's K and first grade?"

Washington state has a weird law that does not require school until kids are 8 but at other points seems to imply that K-1 is required. They aren't going to ask about K-1 if you send in a DOI at 8. To the best of my knowledge a parent wishing to public school can enroll their 8 year old and that 8 year old will generally be placed into 2nd grade.

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Thank you! That's kinda weird how the hours work, but I'm not complaining!

 

My kids are both under 8. Do I have to do annual testing for first grade and up? Also what testing service do you recommend? I'm also looking for a parent-qualifying course that meets WA requirements. That's one of the reasons I want to connect with a homeschooling organization. Unfortunately, I've had no success finding a homeschooling group in my area. I don't use Facebook or anything like that either. And none of our neighbors homeschool. :(

There are many WA state homeschooling groups on FB, including a couple for the entire state. There may not be local groups for each area, but I know there are ones for Bellingham, about 472 for Seattle and King County, Vancouver and Spokane. PM me if you want information on a specific area.

 

I've homeschooled in WA state for 6 years now, both without ALE enrollment and with ALE enrollment. There are advantages to each option.

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Thank you!  That's kinda weird how the hours work, but I'm not complaining! 

 

My kids are both under 8.  Do I have to do annual testing for first grade and up?  Also what testing service do you recommend?  I'm also looking for a parent-qualifying course that meets WA requirements. That's one of the reasons I want to connect with a homeschooling organization.  Unfortunately, I've had no success finding a homeschooling group in my area.  I don't use Facebook or anything like that either.  And none of our neighbors homeschool. :(

 

Compulsory school age is 8. So, no, you wouldn't do annual testing for first and second grade, because that would be before compulsory school age.

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Kids in public school here are not given annual assessment tests (MSP for science, Smarter Balance for math and ELA) until 3rd grade.

 

If you are enrolled in an ALE FT (which does not mean taking classes there FT- just reporting on 20 hours/week between on and off site classes) you actually do not need to test as you can opt out. If you file a DOI, you either need to test or have a certificated teacher sign off on an alternative assessment like work samples or a portfolio.

 

The Iowa test is probably one of the most common tests for homeschoolers to use here.

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Thank you! That's kinda weird how the hours work, but I'm not complaining!

 

My kids are both under 8. Do I have to do annual testing for first grade and up? Also what testing service do you recommend? I'm also looking for a parent-qualifying course that meets WA requirements. That's one of the reasons I want to connect with a homeschooling organization. Unfortunately, I've had no success finding a homeschooling group in my area. I don't use Facebook or anything like that either. And none of our neighbors homeschool. :(

In Western WA, this is a good one. http://lovehstocollege.com/wp/index.php/homeschool-qualifying/

 

She also offers testing when you need it later.

 

Also, 45 college credits is quarter credits. So one year. Remember that three quarters= two semesters. If you have 1 year of college credit yourself (semester or quarter system) you don't need the qualifying course. That said, I know many people who did a good qualifying course even if they had degrees so it's not a bad idea to take the class.

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Thank you! That's kinda weird how the hours work, but I'm not complaining!

 

My kids are both under 8. Do I have to do annual testing for first grade and up? Also what testing service do you recommend? I'm also looking for a parent-qualifying course that meets WA requirements. That's one of the reasons I want to connect with a homeschooling organization. Unfortunately, I've had no success finding a homeschooling group in my area. I don't use Facebook or anything like that either. And none of our neighbors homeschool. :(

you do not have to declare or test until they are 8 when they begin the school year. So usually 3rd grade.

 

Classical Conversations does testing. I usually just use them. (You don't have to do Classical Conversations.). Homeschool Potpourri can help you find testing. You can also do the state testing thru your local public school, but that's not something I'd ever do because I don't want the school to track me. You can also self administer they BJU (I think it is.). Or find a certified teacher to evaluate your kids, although I'm not fond of this method because I feel if I were ever called out an actual test would be more concrete proof than someone's random questions.

 

Where in WA are you? The homeschool conference in Puyallup always has a qualifying course. Or call the Homeschool Potpourri, they have a list of people who teach the class. I know there is one soon on the Eastside. I can't remember if it's at Bellevue college or Lake Wa Tech.

 

I think you may be confusing our ALE system (which include parent partnership programs and also some alternative schools) with charters. Charters just started here due to initiative and are now going to be ending due to the court ruling. Some charters have already converted to private schools. ALEs have existed for a long time. Some of the ones that are designed to augment or support home based instruction are called Parent Partnerships and some are called Homeschool Resource Centers.

WAVA is not a charter.

. I meant the online public schools/ALE. I started out using charter and realized that was the wrong term, I just missed the changing that one. Edited by Plateau Mama
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But the OP's child has not been enrolled in school anywhere, so that isn't an issue.

 

I don't see in the law where it says that parents must keep attendance or document the subjects taught or keep work samples. Even if that were so, there is no requirement to show those records to anyone, so my opinion remains unchanged. I'm all in favor of complying with the law, but I am also in favor of not overcomplying with the law, especially with a child who is only 6yo and has never been enrolled in school.

 

 

While no documentation is required, it really doesn't hurt to have it. I write up a report each month with pictures. It breaks down general progress in the subjects, field trips and anything else of note. It's mostly for my benefit but for K-8, those types of records can help one get a child into the right grade level if they need to enroll in a public or private school. They also help the boys see their progress over time. No one has ever asked to see them but bluntly, I wouldn't care if they did. With two kids on the spectrum, it is also useful for their therapists so they have a clear picture of what we are talking about when we say homeschooling.

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While no documentation is required, it really doesn't hurt to have it. I write up a report each month with pictures. It breaks down general progress in the subjects, field trips and anything else of note. It's mostly for my benefit but for K-8, those types of records can help one get a child into the right grade level if they need to enroll in a public or private school. They also help the boys see their progress over time. No one has ever asked to see them but bluntly, I wouldn't care if they did. With two kids on the spectrum, it is also useful for their therapists so they have a clear picture of what we are talking about when we say homeschooling.

 

Keeping those kinds of records for yourself is one thing. Keeping them because you think someday you will need them to prove something to Official Authority Types is another matter. School officials will not care about those records. They are not admissible as evidence in court (unless you live in a state that requires such recordkeeping). If I kept six-inch notebooks each year for each child, I would still not let anyone look at them if the law does not give them the right to do so.

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Keeping those kinds of records for yourself is one thing. Keeping them because you think someday you will need them to prove something to Official Authority Types is another matter. School officials will not care about those records. They are not admissible as evidence in court (unless you live in a state that requires such recordkeeping). If I kept six-inch notebooks each year for each child, I would still not let anyone look at them if the law does not give them the right to do so.

Actually, here I have had friends whose kids, on returning to school, were able to enroll in a different grade than the school was going to enroll them due to being able to produce past work. For high school, it's not going to help around here but until 8th grade, it can for sure. Also, these sorts of materials are used by parents appealing gifted track placement status here (test scores just under the line, portfolio shows advanced output.)

 

And people use records like this not infrequently in cases where divorcing parents disagree as to if the children should be homeschooled.

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Actually, here I have had friends whose kids, on returning to school, were able to enroll in a different grade than the school was going to enroll them due to being able to produce past work. For high school, it's not going to help around here but until 8th grade, it can for sure. Also, these sorts of materials are used by parents appealing gifted track placement status here (test scores just under the line, portfolio shows advanced output.)

 

And people use records like this not infrequently in cases where divorcing parents disagree as to if the children should be homeschooled.

 

And when people go to enroll their children in school, it's a good idea to do standardized tests, because it's legitimate for the school to want some sort of academic evaluation. That doesn't mean that people need to keep meticulous, detailed records just in case they ever send their children to school or that they might some day be divorced.

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And when people go to enroll their children in school, it's a good idea to do standardized tests, because it's legitimate for the school to want some sort of academic evaluation. That doesn't mean that people need to keep meticulous, detailed records just in case they ever send their children to school or that they might some day be divorced.

Some kids perform below their academic level and actual aptitude on standardized tests.

 

Life is uncertain. Homeschoolers don't have lower rates of divorce or family emergencies which might make school a need. Besides, school may become a want on a FT or PT basis and if you don't want to start in French 1 when you are up to French 3, the school will want some information. I don't see the downsides to back up plans. People certainly don't have to keep records in WA state. Past the first few grades though, it's probably a good idea for a myriad of personal and other considerations. For people who opt to use an ALE, it can make everything much more straight forwards, both in class placement and in documentation for any special education service sought.

 

You seem to often advise on homeschooling laws in states you have zero experience with. I feel it's safe to say that I am more familiar with how useful at least some (even minimal)records are in my own state. At least two other WA based posters have expressed legit reasons why record keeping is beneficial here. We aren't pulling this stuff out of our behinds.

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You seem to often advise on homeschooling laws in states you have zero experience with. I feel it's safe to say that I am more familiar with how useful at least some (even minimal)records are in my own state. At least two other WA based posters have expressed legit reasons why record keeping is beneficial here. We aren't pulling this stuff out of our behinds.

 

My advice has to do with the reasons that people do things. I'm advising the OP not to do things out of fear, or to overcomply with the law because of a misunderstanding of the law. That advice works for every state. People in California will say many of the same things you have, and since I homeschooled in California I feel confident in saying the same thing: don't overcomply with the law because of fear, because of something that might happen, because some day you might put your children in school or get divorced. There have been situations where well-meaning homeschoolers overcomplied with the law and it affected the whole homeschool community.

 

You have special circumstances; of course you will do things differently than those who do not. Someone who goes through a divorce would be wise to do major CYA. Neither of those is the same as keeping meticulous records for a 6yo because of lack of understanding of the law.

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Actually, here I have had friends whose kids, on returning to school, were able to enroll in a different grade than the school was going to enroll them due to being able to produce past work. For high school, it's not going to help around here but until 8th grade, it can for sure. Also, these sorts of materials are used by parents appealing gifted track placement status here (test scores just under the line, portfolio shows advanced output.)

 

And people use records like this not infrequently in cases where divorcing parents disagree as to if the children should be homeschooled.

In my district, one of the largest in WA, you are placed based on your age. Period. They don't care what you've done or how gifted you are. They won't let you accelrate Mary or language. That is why my highly gifted child is at a private school that let her do 3 years of Spanish In the last year and skip a level of math.

 

When I enrolled my son in private school they allowed me to use his annual testing instead of taking their entrance exam. They didn't give a hoot about seeing his work.

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