Do I mention this or just let it go?

[Danestress]

This conversation is starting to remind me of a Buddhist sand mandala or the Good Friday sawdust carpets in Guatemala. These painstaking works of art are intended to be destroyed, and knowing that going in probably helps. Nothing lasts forever after all. :)

That was actually my very first thought - the mandala.

[rocassie]

The dress is so gorgeous.  I GREATLY admire your skill and all that hard work!!!!!!

[musicianmom]

*

Edited May 21, 2022 by musicianmom

[Haiku]

I've noticed several people in this thread say something along the lines of they asked their 10 year olds about this and said 10 year olds were horrified, so clearly what the 18-year-old girl did was wrong.

 

I have to say that asking a young kid for their opinion when it is a) pretty clear what answer the parent expects and b) has to do with something the 10 year old is not actually experiencing is not really a reliable method of obtaining a valid answer.

 

I'm sure there are a ton of 10 year olds who would tell their parents they would never play in the mud in their church clothes, for instance ... but then you put the 10 year old with a group of friends who start with innocently making a footprint in the mud, and it can escalate pretty quickly. If the opinions of 10 year olds were reliable predictors of good behavior, then we wouldn't have the plethora of threads about managing children's and teens' behavior, and parents being exasperated with the behavior of their children and teens wouldn't be a universal theme.

 

If children actually behaved in all instances in the ways they would tell their parents they would behave when their parents set up hypothetical scenarios for them, then the world would be a much easier place. When I was 10, I as never going to french kiss a boy, drink alcohol, or get a tattoo. ;)

[EmseB]

Yes, when we talk it out, my kids are the paragons of virtue. ;)

 

ETA: not to diminish talking it out; it creates a good baseline for behavior standards and expectations, and after the fact helps them see the need for more self control.

Edited April 26, 2016 by JodiSue

[marbel]

<snip>

 

If children actually behaved in all instances in the ways they would tell their parents they would behave when their parents set up hypothetical scenarios for them, then the world would be a much easier place. When I was 10, I as never going to french kiss a boy, drink alcohol, or get a tattoo. ;)

 

Thanks for this. 

 

My kids constantly amaze me with their firm stance on things they will never do.  They are also very good at knowing the right answer when Mom or Dad sets them up. 

 

I'm pretty sure if you asked me if I'd ever get into a water fight while wearing formal clothing, I'd tell you no too.  But even I can't be sure of what I would do in similar circumstances.  Even adults who know better can get caught up in a moment.

 

[kitten18]

I've noticed several people in this thread say something along the lines of they asked their 10 year olds about this and said 10 year olds were horrified, so clearly what the 18-year-old girl did was wrong.

 

I have to say that asking a young kid for their opinion when it is a) pretty clear what answer the parent expects and b) has to do with something the 10 year old is not actually experiencing is not really a reliable method of obtaining a valid answer.

 

I'm sure there are a ton of 10 year olds who would tell their parents they would never play in the mud in their church clothes, for instance ... but then you put the 10 year old with a group of friends who start with innocently making a footprint in the mud, and it can escalate pretty quickly. If the opinions of 10 year olds were reliable predictors of good behavior, then we wouldn't have the plethora of threads about managing children's and teens' behavior, and parents being exasperated with the behavior of their children and teens wouldn't be a universal theme.

 

If children actually behaved in all instances in the ways they would tell their parents they would behave when their parents set up hypothetical scenarios for them, then the world would be a much easier place. When I was 10, I as never going to french kiss a boy, drink alcohol, or get a tattoo. ;)

This, times a million.

[Murphy101]

Well my kids don't do that. But I asked my teens and early 20 somethings too and they were all horrified.

 

That's not to say they've never done something I thought foolish or that they won't.

 

But I'm confident they wouldn't engage in a spontaneous water fight while dressed for or attending a formal function.

[Jan in SC]

Yep. All of that too. I know very few kids who have to have uniforms for school who have a complete uniform outfit for every day. They usually only have 2-3 and they take extra effort not to get them too dirty to wear again before laundry is done.

I know tons of private school kids. Most kids have 8-10 uniforms. My kids and their friends wore very nice clothing from the time they were born and none of us cared if it became dirty or wet. Most of them were boys that wore smocked or monogrammed clothing from birth, but it was still just clothes. Even today, I don't care if they goof around in clothes they wear to church. Maybe it's a regional thing. It's hot here. After church, people go outside for lemonade and cookies and the kids run and play. In a 1000 person congregation, there are very few kids who sit still.

[musicianmom]

*

Edited May 21, 2022 by musicianmom

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

NM, I forgot my #1 rule for posting here  :rolleyes:

 

 

Edited April 26, 2016 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[SereneHome]

I am a firm believer that what people say  they will do and what they will actually do can be very different.  And that even more certain when it comes to kids.

 

However!! If a 10 or 15 or 20 yr old at least knows the right answer there is much better chance that there will at least be some remorse if they don't do the right thing.  It didn't seem like OP's DD thought there was anything wrong with what happened.  If it was my child, I  would find that hurtful and troublesome.

Edited April 26, 2016 by SereneHome

[Murphy101]

I know tons of private school kids. Most kids have 8-10 uniforms. My kids and their friends wore very nice clothing from the time they were born and none of us cared if it became dirty or wet. Most of them were boys that wore smocked or monogrammed clothing from birth, but it was still just clothes. Even today, I don't care if they goof around in clothes they wear to church. Maybe it's a regional thing. It's hot here. After church, people go outside for lemonade and cookies and the kids run and play. In a 1000 person congregation, there are very few kids who sit still.

*shrug* Okay.

 

I've never met a private school kid with 8-10 uniforms. I'm sure they exist. But it's not the norm of those I know.

 

I'm not sure what the references to running and playing mean. All kids run and skip about. But they don't usually have water/food/mud fights. Worst that happens most days is they scuff their shoes or have to dust off the seat of their pants. Maybe some cookie crumbs off their shirt. Once in a great while someone takes a tumble and gets a turf stain in the knees or a minor rip. I'm not talking 2 year olds. But much older children. All of my kids goof around some. But they aren't making a mess of themselves.

[Haiku]

My daughter might get caught up in the moment and do something silly like that. But she would realize it was silly, not take a "well of course, what do you expect?" attitude.

 

But what's wrong with being silly?

[EmseB]

I can't figure out the problem with water play in school uniforms. Or even getting them dirty. My son's uniform was a polo and slacks. We threw it in the wash when it got dirty and he had more than one. All the kids played together after school on a grass/mulch playground. They kept themselves neat and tidy during school as it was required (shirts tucked in, even), but after school those clothes got dirty. We put them in the washer and they were clean. I was glad my kids had an outlet with their friends to play even if it meant being grubby afterward. The worst is the dirt in the fingernails from digging in the mulch with ones hands. Blech. But if he got soaked in those clothes? I still can't figure out the problem. And I don't consider myself highly tolerant of mess. But water is just...water. Mud can stain, food can stain, but water? In a cotton polo and slacks?

 

I also am not sure how it got from getting water on a dress to not ever getting school uniforms dirty?

 

ETA: I also have one kid who Gets Dirty. Like, if everyone else comes in with a minor dust problem, this kid's hands will be black, his face will have streaks, there will be stuff in his hair, etc. It's him. And he has taught me that most messes are not catastrophes and can be made presentable-ish if necessary...or hosed (showered) of if time permits. Still, sometimes when I see him come running at me I have to say, "What were you DOING?!"

Edited April 26, 2016 by JodiSue

[SKL]

Well my kids don't do that. But I asked my teens and early 20 somethings too and they were all horrified.

 

That's not to say they've never done something I thought foolish or that they won't.

 

But I'm confident they wouldn't engage in a spontaneous water fight while dressed for or attending a formal function.

 

Well, I won't go that far, because it's true, kids do dumb things sometimes, even though they know better.  My kids have surprised me a few times.  :/  But if my kids did do that, they would be sheepish and apologetic about it.  It's one thing to make a poor choice, another to supposedly be unaware it wasn't a super idea.

[SKL]

I also am not sure how it got from getting water on a dress to not ever getting school uniforms dirty?

 

 

The point was that even young kids can understand that there is a time and place for certain activities.  The time for water fights is when you aren't dressed in a hand-made formal dress.  Seems painfully obvious to me and probably anyone who was raised like me.  It was in response to the many (surprising to me) posts that suggest a high school student would never have thought of that.

[SKL]

I can't figure out the problem with water play in school uniforms. Or even getting them dirty. My son's uniform was a polo and slacks. We threw it in the wash when it got dirty and he had more than one. All the kids played together after school on a grass/mulch playground. They kept themselves neat and tidy during school as it was required (shirts tucked in, even), but after school those clothes got dirty. We put them in the washer and they were clean. I was glad my kids had an outlet with their friends to play even if it meant being grubby afterward. The worst is the dirt in the fingernails from digging in the mulch with ones hands. Blech. But if he got soaked in those clothes? I still can't figure out the problem. And I don't consider myself highly tolerant of mess. But water is just...water. Mud can stain, food can stain, but water? In a cotton polo and slacks?

 

I also am not sure how it got from getting water on a dress to not ever getting school uniforms dirty?

 

ETA: I also have one kid who Gets Dirty. Like, if everyone else comes in with a minor dust problem, this kid's hands will be black, his face will have streaks, there will be stuff in his hair, etc. It's him. And he has taught me that most messes are not catastrophes and can be made presentable-ish if necessary...or hosed (showered) of if time permits. Still, sometimes when I see him come running at me I have to say, "What were you DOING?!"

 

You've never had the kids come in with a stain that doesn't come out in the wash?  Lucky you.

 

Like I said, water fights tend to lead to general horseplay which tends to lead to dirty or damaged clothes.  There's a time and a place.  Kids are fully capable of understanding this if it matters to you.

 

[Haiku]

I guess this is just another instance where I am out of sync with people on an issue.

 

My oldest went to prom. She wanted a $400 dress. I told her that spending $400 on a dress she would wear once (at best two or three times) was exactly like throwing $400 cash in the toilet and flushing. She got a $40 dress from the mall. (It was originally $80 but we got half off because some beads were loose. I sewed them back on with 2 cents worth of thread.) She went to prom and had a great time. She looked fantastic in her dress that cost 90% less than the one she originally wanted, and if she'd done something to stain, rip, or otherwise mar the dress, I wouldn't have cared less. (I'm not talking about the OP's feelings about the homemade dress; I'm talking about purchased dresses.)

 

If parents think that kids can't cut up at prom because they might mar their expensive clothing, to me the solution is to buy less expensive clothing for the occasion, not complain that the kids tried to have fun in it.

[marbel]

You've never had the kids come in with a stain that doesn't come out in the wash?  Lucky you.

 

Like I said, water fights tend to lead to general horseplay which tends to lead to dirty or damaged clothes.  There's a time and a place.  Kids are fully capable of understanding this if it matters to you.

 

 

But in the case of the OP's daughter, it didn't lead to general horseplay and dirty clothing.  It led to wet clothing.  Which, as someone pointed out upthread, is not going to be on most teens' radar as something that will damage clothing.  How did she put it?  Paraphrasing:  water is what you use to clean clothes, not get them dirty.    It would never occur to  me to expect my teen to know, if I didn't tell her, that water might damage the fabric.  I do know that there are fabrics that will never look right again if they've been splashed with water, but I had to learn that from someone (or a sewing book or similar). 

 

[Murphy101]

Well, I won't go that far, because it's true, kids do dumb things sometimes, even though they know better. My kids have surprised me a few times. :/ But if my kids did do that, they would be sheepish and apologetic about it. It's one thing to make a poor choice, another to supposedly be unaware it wasn't a super idea.

Well goodness knows nothing humbles like parenting, you're so right about that.

 

But yeah, they wouldn't come in the door acting like it was normal behavior and blow off my surprise. They'd come in the door with apolgies and fully aware they'd not behaved as expected.

 

I think the worst that's ever happened comparably is the older kids 6th through 9th grade at the time, went down to the creek and woods to explore and do some fishing. I gave them the emergency cell phone and they knew the standard admonishment to not get it wet because it was the only one we had and we wouldn't be able to just go buy another one.

 

One of them handed it to another one and that one forgot it was in his pocket when he went wading into the creek up to his waist.

 

But they came home with apologies for the phone and willing to work to buy another one to replace it.

 

I didn't yell at them or freak out. They knew I wasn't happy about it and neither were they. We worked it out.

 

Didn't care about the clothes bc the clothes were fine to be trashed and they were behaving appropriate for the time and place. More concerned as a grown woman and mother freaked out by things she never gave a thought to when she was a kid and didn't mention bc she knows kids are going to play in the creek anyways. Like all the sludge and yuck polluting that creek and my "baby" was waist deep in it. Like those fresh water parasites that travel up the urethra or the nose and into the brain. Like when boats dump their toilet tanks, it goes right into the lake that everyone is swimming in. 😷ðŸ¤ðŸ˜µðŸ˜†

[EmseB]

You've never had the kids come in with a stain that doesn't come out in the wash? Lucky you.

 

Like I said, water fights tend to lead to general horseplay which tends to lead to dirty or damaged clothes. There's a time and a place. Kids are fully capable of understanding this if it matters to you.

 

Well, to me, playing after school in the clothes they went to school in is not that abnormal, even in the dirt. Washing them was really not that burdensome. And for the slacks and shirts we had, I didn't get stains that wouldn't come out. They were durable polos and slacks, nothing really special.

 

As for water fights, to me they just aren't beyond the pale. I don't see that a water fight, even in "nicer" clothes is so damaging.

Edited April 26, 2016 by JodiSue

[Tsuga]

I've noticed several people in this thread say something along the lines of they asked their 10 year olds about this and said 10 year olds were horrified, so clearly what the 18-year-old girl did was wrong.

 

I have to say that asking a young kid for their opinion when it is a) pretty clear what answer the parent expects and b) has to do with something the 10 year old is not actually experiencing is not really a reliable method of obtaining a valid answer.

 

I'm sure there are a ton of 10 year olds who would tell their parents they would never play in the mud in their church clothes, for instance ... but then you put the 10 year old with a group of friends who start with innocently making a footprint in the mud, and it can escalate pretty quickly. If the opinions of 10 year olds were reliable predictors of good behavior, then we wouldn't have the plethora of threads about managing children's and teens' behavior, and parents being exasperated with the behavior of their children and teens wouldn't be a universal theme.

 

If children actually behaved in all instances in the ways they would tell their parents they would behave when their parents set up hypothetical scenarios for them, then the world would be a much easier place. When I was 10, I as never going to french kiss a boy, drink alcohol, or get a tattoo. ;)

 

Thank you.

 

When I was 10 I didn't even intend to ever wear a DRESS, LOL.

 

 

 

Seems painfully obvious to me and probably anyone who was raised like me.  It was in response to the many (surprising to me) posts that suggest a high school student would never have thought of that.

 

Well if there is one thing we have all learned is that this is not a universally held human value or common knowledge, as obvious as it seems to some of us now.

[Harriet Vane]

I know tons of private school kids. Most kids have 8-10 uniforms. My kids and their friends wore very nice clothing from the time they were born and none of us cared if it became dirty or wet. Most of them were boys that wore smocked or monogrammed clothing from birth, but it was still just clothes. Even today, I don't care if they goof around in clothes they wear to church. Maybe it's a regional thing. It's hot here. After church, people go outside for lemonade and cookies and the kids run and play. In a 1000 person congregation, there are very few kids who sit still.

 

My son attends a private high school. No, he does not have 8-10 uniforms, and I am fairly certain his friends do not either. He has two pairs of pants and one pair of shorts. He has two long-sleeved shirts and one short-sleeved shirt. That's a grand total of three complete uniforms. He has one sweatshirt, and we recently splurged on a zippered jacket that students can wear in school or double as an athletic warm-up for team sports. 

[Soror]

I think the dress is just gorgeous, many kudos for that.

 

Fwiw I don't think the OP was  wrong in her reaction, she put a lot of work into the dress and felt that her daughter's behavior showed a lack of respect and care. However, I also do not think the daughter did anything wrong either, a water fight at prom doesn't seem to be an out of the ordinary event to me.

 

 

[Catalytic]

I guess we were just raised differently.  I would not have dared to have a water fight in my church or school clothes as a kid, let alone a formal dress.  I don't see how anyone can view that as appropriate behavior, especially for someone older than, say, 5.  You dress appropriately for the activity.

 

And no, in my world, you don't go to prom to have a water fight.  You go to act like you're an adult at a formal event.  When I go to formal events, I don't throw water on people.  So far I've never had anyone throw water on me in a dress either.

 

Please don't ever attend a military ball.  A water fight is very, VERY mild compared to things I've seen at those.

[Jan in SC]

My son attends a private high school. No, he does not have 8-10 uniforms, and I am fairly certain his friends do not either. He has two pairs of pants and one pair of shorts. He has two long-sleeved shirts and one short-sleeved shirt. That's a grand total of three complete uniforms. He has one sweatshirt, and we recently splurged on a zippered jacket that students can wear in school or double as an athletic warm-up for team sports.

I certainly understand that some people don't, but here, where it is 90 degrees or above for almost six months of the year, most people have many uniforms. i can't imagine wearing them twice without washing and I wouldn't have time to wash that often. My point was more that my friends don't worry about clothing getting filthy very much and it surprised me that she (the pp I was quoting) was that worried.

[EmseB]

Maybe that's why I'm so unfazed by the situation described in the OP? I've been to more military balls/dining outs than I can count.

People acting silly in formal dress? In our nation's armed forces? The heck you say!! ;)

[Joker]

People acting silly in formal dress? In our nation's armed forces? The heck you say!! ;)

 

 

The only one I attended, with dh, took place in a casino outside of Vegas. It was interesting... :gnorsi:

[Jenny in Florida]

But they don't usually have water/food/mud fights. Worst that happens most days is they scuff their shoes or have to dust off the seat of their pants. Maybe some cookie crumbs off their shirt. Once in a great while someone takes a tumble and gets a turf stain in the knees or a minor rip. I'm not talking 2 year olds. But much older children. All of my kids goof around some. But they aren't making a mess of themselves.

 

We must have VERY different kids.

 

Up until the preteen years, I used to say I knew my kids had a good day when they came home exhausted and dirty. It meant they were out being kids in the way these individuals were meant to be. I'm sure that "rule" doesn't work for every child, but it held true for both of mine. If they had to stop and change or refrain from fun activities because of concern about their clothing, as far as I was concerned, they were wearing the wrong clothing.

 

For the record, both of mine are now 18+ and are perfectly capable of dressing themselves well, caring for their clothing and other belongings and staying appropriately clean and groomed. (In fact, they are both performers, so personal appearance is kind of part of the job description. But for both of them, "making a mess of themselves" was totally part of being a normal, healthy kid.

 

(Edited to add: Oh, I also just remembered that a water balloon "toss," which often hewed dangerously close to degenerating into a water balloon "fight," was a regularly scheduled part of our church's Easter party. So, yeah, water fight while dressed in one's literal Sunday best wouldn't have seemed particularly problematic for my kids, unless they had been specifically warned that an outfit was vulnerable to water damage.)

Edited April 27, 2016 by Jenny in Florida

[ktgrok]

@Jenny, I'm thinking our heat/climate might be part of this. Most of the year kids are going to sweat like crazy if playing outside. No way are they going to be able to wear that shirt again the next day. Maybe that isn't true elsewhere. 

[zoobie]

@Jenny, I'm thinking our heat/climate might be part of this. Most of the year kids are going to sweat like crazy if playing outside. No way are they going to be able to wear that shirt again the next day. Maybe that isn't true elsewhere.

Here too. Even my not quite 2 year old comes in smelling like a hamster from romping around the front yard.

[Katy]

Here too. Even my not quite 2 year old comes in smelling like a hamster from romping around the front yard.

 

That happens here too in the summer.  And I thought dogs don't sweat.  Mine sure smell like they do when it's hot outside if they are out for more than a couple minutes.

[QueenCat]

Never mind, my dd had a great time at prom.

 

Thats all.

 

If she went to the one I'm guessing she may have gone too, pictures are up on the local newspaper's website.

[fairfarmhand]

If she went to the one I'm guessing she may have gone too, pictures are up on the local newspaper's website.

 

HA!

 

She's in none of them!

 

Guess she was outside having the water fight when they were making pictures?

 

:)

[Catalytic]

Maybe that's why I'm so unfazed by the situation described in the OP? I've been to more military balls/dining outs than I can count.

 

LOL maybe we are jaded from them.

 

People acting silly in formal dress? In our nation's armed forces? The heck you say!! ;)

 

Never, they're perfect gentlefolk at all times! :gnorsi:

 

The only one I attended, with dh, took place in a casino outside of Vegas. It was interesting... :gnorsi:

 

A ball isn't a ball until there's a umm...hrmm...how to put this for gentle company....a 'china hangin' out on the dance floor?

 

I guess none of their mamas taught them to respect the mess dress. (LOL)

 

Ugh, DH is buying his next week, my bank account is already cringing!  (And his normal dress jacket needs to be replaced after only 3 or 4 years because its had so freaking many rank changes that it's picked all over the sleeves, argh)

Edited April 28, 2016 by Catalytic

[goldberry]

My DD17 would totally do something like that. We have always said, "It's just water" a million times when water has been spilled, splashed, etc.  So it would definitely NOT occur to her that water could do anything.  She has water fights with her friends on a regular basis actually.

 

But mostly, she's just that way.  She is a "seize the moment" kind of girl.  Yes, it burns her occasionally, and yes, sometimes I wish she would think more.  But as a kid who missed a lot of fun because I was "old before my time", sometimes it makes me happy to see.

 

ETA, Fair, that dress is flat out gorgeous...

Edited April 28, 2016 by goldberry

[Miss Peregrine]

Gorgeous dress and I'm glad it wasn't ruined. You know what does ruin prom dresses? Snot. Yep. My dress was hanging from the top of my bedroom door and I sneezed as I walked into the room. Disgusting, I know, but tons of snot landed right on the front of the dress. I wiped it off but it must have been toxic or something because the emerald green taffeta was so discolored.

 

I didn't say anything to my mom because, embarrassing but she noticed it. When I told her what happened she didn't believe me. Thank God we got it at Nordstrom because they took it back! I don't remember if she told them how it happened or just said, "there seems to be some discoloration. . . " :smilielol5:

[shawthorne44]

Reading glasses really annoy me.   I've had glasses since I was 8, and contacts since I was 12.  That was back when contacts for kids that young was unusual.   I need something to be able to see more than a couple of feet away,  I was blind enough that my script limited my selection of contacts.   I am OK with that.  I wore contacts and everything was fine.   But, what drives me batpoo crazy is the thought that no matter what I have to have glasses on me at all times.  If I have my contacts on I still need to carry glasses, they are just the reading variety.  waaaaaaa     

So, now I wear my real glasses almost all the time.   I loved my contacts.  

[wapiti]

. 

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by wapiti