Need advice for talking with teacher Monday afternoon

[Cake and Pi]

We homeschool through a public charter that requires kids attend classes 8am-3pm one day each week.  DS#2 is 6y6m and in kindergarten (so an older K student).  He's working at about a 3rd grade level in math and reading+comprehension are around 6th-ish, though he usually chooses ~4th grade reading material for himself.  

 

This year I had an awful time with his K teacher.  She started out the year assuring me that she could easily differentiate for him, but she never did.  I've contacted her a few times about it, but she's not been open to making any changes.  He even got in trouble last fall for refusing to count during a group activity.  (He announced loudly that his mom said he didn't have to count and that "counting is slow and inefficient and often inaccurate," which the teacher essentially found insubordinate and disruptive.)

 

So tomorrow is some kind of 1st grade open house thing to meet the teacher for next year, ask questions, etc.  I'm trying to decide how best to approach her about differentiation for DS#2. 

 

Any ideas?  I obviously failed with his K teacher.  I offered to send him with engaging busy work (mazes, puzzles, etc) and books at his reading level, but she didn't want him bringing in outside books and insisted that there was much he could learn about math in her class.  I offered to send him with enrichment activities aligned with her lesson plans, but she refused to share her lesson plans with me.  What else should or could I try with the new teacher?  

 

I guess the other thing is that I'm not sure it really even matters.  He's working above grade level, but not by a huge amount.  On the one hand he complains about boredom, has cried about having to go to school, says they only do "baby stuff", and claims to have read all of the books in the class, but on the other hand it's only one day each week and I fear she will respond as the K teacher did this year.   I suspect the K teacher is less friendly with DS#2 because our interactions.

[Roadrunner]

why not put him in first grade? He is 6 and a half years old, a very solidly a first grade age. Of course he is bored in K. He might be bored in first grade as well, but at least he will be with his peers, and it will be a touch better.

 

And I just realized this is on accelerated board, so even more reason to not be holding a child back a grade.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Roadrunner

[Mike in SA]

In our experience, open house tends to be an inappropriate time for such discussions.  You need a private session, or possibly with the school chair / dean / group leader.

 

Differentiation within a classroom is nearly impossible to pull off in a standardized curriculum.  To do it, the parents often have to pitch in with additional content.  The rest of the school day will normally be filled with busy work.

 

We actually had a GT pull out teacher suggest we high tail it.  Best advice a teacher ever gave us...  Unfortunately, it meant DW giving up work to home school.

[regentrude]

I second what Mike has said: open house is not the time to bring up these issues. You should tell the teacher that you would like to schedule a private conference to discuss some concerns.

O you can make an appointment with the principal and discuss whether a grade skip would be appropriate for your child, especially since he is a year older anyway.

But open house is the time to smile and nod and show an interest in the classroom, so the teacher knows that you care about your kid's education.

 

ETA: If your DS is very accelerated, you may want to rethink whether using the public charter school is going to work in the long term. Is that required in your state? Can't you just homeschool?

Edited April 25, 2016 by regentrude

[tm919]

My daughter is similar (K, but at least 3 years ahead in everything -- with "everything" all over the place). She attends public school half-days. My perspective is perhaps different because I do plan for her to go to public school full time in first grade, and supplement after school. She has also gone to a mixed-age class (Montessori) for 3+ years.

 

First, I'd make a separate appointment for this, and make it have 2 aims: First, what can be done to differentiate for him?

 

Second, I'm not sure how to phrase this, but for my daughter... Over time the biggest thing for her to learn was tolerance and empathy. She's good at some things, but it took time for her to learn that others are learning at a different pace. One of her friends in class declares "everything is soooo easy" and it always worries my daughter -- because she has often BEEN that kid who doesn't know those things or can't do those things that others declare "easy" (both when she was 2 with 6 year olds at the Montessori & now in swim and sports).

 

I have honestly felt that the second part was the harder one for her to learn.

Edited April 25, 2016 by tm919

[slackermom]

In our district, your son would have been an older first grader this year, having missed the September cutoff to be in second grade.

It sounds like an appointment with the principal is in order, to discuss grade placement, and to discuss general differentiation options.

[Cake and Pi]

Thanks, guys.  I'll talk to the teacher this afternoon about setting up a meeting to discuss DS#2.

 

There's kind of a long back story on his grade placement.  His birthday is a couple of days before the October cutoff.  We tried putting him in K for 2014-2015, but ended up pulling him out about half way into the year because he was so incredibly not ready to be in K.  He is emotionally and socially immature.  I was getting notes and incident reports every. single. week.  He was throwing crying-on-the-floor fits in class, not keeping hands to himself, getting into other people's things (like stuff on the teacher's desk), not following directions, wandering the room, the list goes on.  He made no friends and his attitude about himself became very poor.  We are actually still working on recovering his self concept.

 

So, we tried K again this year, and it has gone much better.  Behavior-wise he's fitting in with the other K students, he's made a couple of good friends, and his on-the-floor fits are almost extinguished.  His social peers are not the same as his academic peers.  He's quite happy being the oldest in a  group.  He is extremely empathetic does big brother well.

 

I talked to the principal and we can "skip" him a grade back to where he should be (starting 2nd this fall at 6, nearing 7yo).  However, I am hesitant to do so.  The school is very small; there are only 5-12 students per grade.  He already failed to make friends with the kids of that class, and he'd have to leave behind the friends he made this year.  Also, 2nd and 3rd grade are combined, and the school has a university model for classes 2nd-12th grade (passing periods, classes in different buildings).  DS#2 would very likely be in at least some classes with DS#1, which I'd very much like to avoid.  I'm also worried about him wandering and not actually making it to his classes at this point.

 

We want to remain with the charter school because that's where we borrow almost all of our curriculum and manipulatives for free.  It takes a big chunk of the financial burden of homeschooling off of our family to have the school's curriculum library available.  Enrollment in the charter also eliminates the need for me to keep records and arrange for standardized testing.  

 

Edited to correct mistype... he tried K the first time last year, in the 14-15 school year -- not 15-16.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lace

[Arcadia]

My kids were with a public charter.  We could get it to work for 3 years only because they allow subject placement separate from grade level as long as it is not lower.  Would you be able to stay around and walk your DS#2 from one class to another so that he doesn't get lost?

 

Public charter here allow parents to stay around as long as they are registered as school parent volunteers.

 

In our experience, open house tends to be an inappropriate time for such discussions.  You need a private session, or possibly with the school chair / dean / group leader.

 

Differentiation within a classroom is nearly impossible to pull off in a standardized curriculum. 

 

:iagree:

[debi21]

I agree that differentiation is really difficult to pull off in practice. I imagine it must be that much harder in a situation where you are only in class one day a week. Think of how many weeks it will take for the teacher to simply get to know the students and their individual capabilities. Are all the students part-homeschooled and there only one day a week? In that case, I wonder what kind of curriculum are they trying to use, where  they only have 40-ish classes per year. What are they (the school) trying to accomplish during the one required day if every student presumably has their own curriculum during the week? Is everything geared to group activities? Which subjects are they trying to cover - all? I feel like understanding the school's purpose and objectives for the 1 day/week is important in figuring out what you could/should ask them for.

 

[Cake and Pi]

I met the 1st grade teacher and we set up a meeting for next week.  We had a pleasant conversation, and I feel much better about moving forward with 1st next year.  From what she said, she does very little that is academic in class.  She considers herself a support person for homeschooling families and expects academics to be handled by parents.  She told me they basically sing songs, play games that focus on social and cooperative skills, do arts and crafts, and learn how to follow rules and get along.  She turns out to have a GT kid of her own (in PS), so I'm even more hopeful that she will be willing to work with me.  One of the moms with a kid in her class this year told me the academics mostly look like worksheets, which sounds ideal to me for our particular situation.  I'm going to ask the 1st teacher next week if I can just supply DS#2's worksheets.  He will benefit greatly from all the songs, games, crafts, and practice with rules and such, so I'm hopeful that this will be a good experience for him.

 

 

I agree that differentiation is really difficult to pull off in practice. I imagine it must be that much harder in a situation where you are only in class one day a week. Think of how many weeks it will take for the teacher to simply get to know the students and their individual capabilities. Are all the students part-homeschooled and there only one day a week? In that case, I wonder what kind of curriculum are they trying to use, where  they only have 40-ish classes per year. What are they (the school) trying to accomplish during the one required day if every student presumably has their own curriculum during the week? Is everything geared to group activities? Which subjects are they trying to cover - all? I feel like understanding the school's purpose and objectives for the 1 day/week is important in figuring out what you could/should ask them for.

 

Yes, all the students are all there only one day per week and homeschooled the rest of the time.  It seems each teacher is given a lot of room to do things as he/she sees fit.  In 8yo DS#1's classes I've always been given syllabuses at the beginning of the year, but he has been enrolled in almost all elective classes (art, pe, drama, music, lego robotics, etc).  K is a self-contained class and they changed 1st to self-contained recently too.  

 

The K teacher this year is new, and seems to be going through a (standard?) K curriculum 1 day each week, assuming, I guess, that parents do the rest at home for the remainder of the week?  I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to work though since she refuses to share her lesson plans.  They do Zoo Phonics and short lists of sight words are sent home from time to time.

 

I guess what I find frustrating is that DS#2 is not all that accelerated.  Garden variety gifted is supposedly easily accommodatable in a standard classroom.  Plus I'm not expecting the teacher to figure out where my kid is and find appropriate material for him.  I offered to do all that for her, but she insists that he do exactly what she's doing with all the other kids.  *Sigh*  No matter, this year is nearly over and the next will be better.

[HS Mom in NC]

I think it's unrealistic to expect a teacher to accommodate your child.  Sorry. Classrooms are a one size fits all, mass production environments and your child clearly needs a customized education because he's way outside the norm.  Saddling a teacher with creating 2 lesson plans or expecting her to hand hers over to you so you can do it for her doesn't make any practical sense.  Your child should either be in classrooms somewhere for math and reading based on academic ability with mixed age students or your child needs to be homeschooled at home full time. 

My kids have all been homeschooled full time at home because no other school or teacher would be able to suit me no matter what they did, so I don't even try to get them to suit me.  It's time the mythology that classrooms can individuate go by the wayside like flat earth mythology.  Classrooms can provide some adequate modification for some students, but they cannot meet the needs of all students the same age.  They just can't. The farther a child is from the average the truer that statement is. Until schools drop the idea that all children should be grouped by age rather than academic ability, this problem will continue on.

[mathnerd]

In 8yo DS#1's classes I've always been given syllabuses at the beginning of the year, but he has been enrolled in almost all elective classes (art, pe, drama, music, lego robotics, etc).  K is a self-contained class and they changed 1st to self-contained recently too.  

 

I am not able to understand clearly how this charter works. If your DS#2 is going in once a week for classroom work and if you have the option to enroll him in mostly electives for 1st grade like art, PE, music etc., I think that is a solution to your problem - consider homeschooling your child in academics to suit his learning needs and use the charter once a week for all the extras and enrichments that you do not cover. Some good examples are team sports like basketball, drama, art, robotics, public speaking, field trips etc. I think that you should not expect them to teach anything customized for your son in a group setting - but, you could certainly make the best use of the weekly classroom setting to add in enrichment.

Edited April 27, 2016 by mathnerd

[Cake and Pi]

I think it's unrealistic to expect a teacher to accommodate your child.  Sorry. Classrooms are a one size fits all, mass production environments and your child clearly needs a customized education because he's way outside the norm.  Saddling a teacher with creating 2 lesson plans or expecting her to hand hers over to you so you can do it for her doesn't make any practical sense.  Your child should either be in classrooms somewhere for math and reading based on academic ability with mixed age students or your child needs to be homeschooled at home full time. 

 

My kids have all been homeschooled full time at home because no other school or teacher would be able to suit me no matter what they did, so I don't even try to get them to suit me.  It's time the mythology that classrooms can individuate go by the wayside like flat earth mythology.  Classrooms can provide some adequate modification for some students, but they cannot meet the needs of all students the same age.  They just can't. The farther a child is from the average the truer that statement is. Until schools drop the idea that all children should be grouped by age rather than academic ability, this problem will continue on.

 

I see what you're saying, but I don't understand what's hard about handing out a different worksheet (that I provide) or letting him bring his own reading material to class?  Maybe I'm spoiled because the old K teacher worked to keep DS#1 constructively occupied back when he was in K.  Perhaps the old K teacher was just a superior educator.

 

Bur really, this is a program specifically for mostly-homeschooled students.  Sure, most are probably average, but there is a much greater proportion of children working above and below the standard here than you see in a typical school.   And the class sizes are suuuuper small.  And the K class has an aid.  

 

Admittedly though, recent legislative changes make charter schools in our area exempt from honoring ALPs and IEPs.  I really can't *expect* any kind of accommodation; I can only hope that teachers and the school will be willing to work with us and then make the best of what we get.  

[Cake and Pi]

I am not able to understand clearly how this charter works. If your DS#2 is going in once a week for classroom work and if you have the option to enroll him in mostly electives for 1st grade like art, PE, music etc., I think that is a solution to your problem - consider homeschooling your child in academics to suit his learning needs and use the charter once a week for all the extras and enrichments that you do not cover. Some good examples are team sports like basketball, drama, art, robotics, public speaking, field trips etc. I think that you should not expect them to teach anything customized for your son in a group setting - but, you could certainly make the best use of the weekly classroom setting to add in enrichment.

 

Sorry I wasn't clear.  K and (now, but not previously) 1st grade are self-contained classes with kids of the same-ish age all working at whatever the one K or one 1st grade teacher decides.  2nd and up are in mixed age classes (2-3rd, 4th-5th 6th-8th, 9th-12th, though the age groupings vary a bit by class) that are chosen by the parent.  They have all the core classes plus lots of enrichment-type classes, and we mostly steer away from the academic classes for our 2nd grader.  The kids are expected to walk from class to class, which are housed in several separate buildings.  

 

I *could* "skip" (though it wouldn't actually be a skip since he technically meets the age cut off since it was moved -- he wouldn't have met the age cut off a couple of years ago) DS#2 to 2nd grade for next year, but I don't want to because it would likely not work out well to have him be in the same classes with DS#1.  I'm concerned about him wandering between classes (and it's not feasible to spend the whole day at school with my 4yo and 2yo)  He'd also be moved from the friends he's made this year and be back in classes with the kids he already failed to befriend last year.  

 

But, yes, staring year after next he will be in all electives -- problem solved, lol!  

[mathnerd]

2nd and up are in mixed age classes (2-3rd, 4th-5th 6th-8th, 9th-12th, though the age groupings vary a bit by class) that are chosen by the parent.  They have all the core classes plus lots of enrichment-type classes, and we mostly steer away from the academic classes for our 2nd grader.  

 

...

 

But, yes, staring year after next he will be in all electives -- problem solved, lol!  

Thanks for the clarification. Since your problem is for the 1st grade year of your DS#2 only, one way to tackle this is ask the teacher if your DS is permitted to bring a work packet from home to spend time on when he has finished with his classroom work (you can send in worksheets, crossword puzzles and things similar to the Critical Thinking Co's Mindbenders etc). Or he might be allowed to read a book of his choice (free reading book at his level that you send in) or work on things like puzzles, tangrams etc that the classroom already has. If you present it as something that you will handle by yourself with no inputs from the teacher, she might accept these suggestions. Good luck.

 

ETA: It looks like you already asked for these accommodations. Will she be open to your DS managing those accommodations by himself (like keeping them in his backpack and working on them when he has finished with other things?) That would not bother her too much. I believe that differentiation in a group setting is possible if the teacher wants to work on it.

Edited April 27, 2016 by mathnerd

[HS Mom in NC]

I see what you're saying, but I don't understand what's hard about handing out a different worksheet (that I provide) or letting him bring his own reading material to class?  Maybe I'm spoiled because the old K teacher worked to keep DS#1 constructively occupied back when he was in K.  Perhaps the old K teacher was just a superior educator.

 

Bur really, this is a program specifically for mostly-homeschooled students.  Sure, most are probably average, but there is a much greater proportion of children working above and below the standard here than you see in a typical school.   And the class sizes are suuuuper small.  And the K class has an aid.  

 

Admittedly though, recent legislative changes make charter schools in our area exempt from honoring ALPs and IEPs.  I really can't *expect* any kind of accommodation; I can only hope that teachers and the school will be willing to work with us and then make the best of what we get.  

 

Because it's a class. In a class the primary unit is the group, not the individual.  Because the teacher shouldn't even have to think about doing something academically different for one or more kids.  Because you're not required to send your child there. Because it may be primarily social for your kid, but it's not primarily social for the teacher-it's academic too. If you want an individual education, keep the child in an environment where the primary unit is the individual-at home.

 

Teachers, even those dealing with just homeschooled kids, have enough to deal with without adding in individuation issues.   We have homeschool classes at local charters here and they're on the brink of shutting it down because homeschooling mothers are notorious for insisting that their particular demands are perfectly reasonable and not burdensome while they forget that the teacher is dealing with a group of homeschooling mothers, not them as a single individual. I have friends who are ps and charter teachers-homeschooling mothers have a bad reputation just like school teacher parents have a bad reputation because they tend to tell teachers what to do in their own classrooms. Sorry, I have little patience for homeschoolers who are granted an educational  opportunity by a taxpayer funded school and then they make demands outside what the teacher and administration have determined is best for the class as a whole to meet their goals and state requirements. 

 

It's also why so many homeschoolers will never run or teach in a co-op ever again.  If you want it done your way, do it yourself.  If you're attending someone else's group, either participate in at as the person teaching it has it planned, or bow out and find something you can participate in as is. Or come up with your own co-op for academics that allow for children of different ages but similar abilities.

 

I'm sorry the academics aren't a good fit for your kid.  That sucks.  Provide the academics yourself.

[Cake and Pi]

Because it's a class. In a class the primary unit is the group, not the individual.  Because the teacher shouldn't even have to think about doing something academically different for one or more kids.  Because you're not required to send your child there. Because it may be primarily social for your kid, but it's not primarily social for the teacher-it's academic too. If you want an individual education, keep the child in an environment where the primary unit is the individual-at home.

 

Teachers, even those dealing with just homeschooled kids, have enough to deal with without adding in individuation issues.   We have homeschool classes at local charters here and they're on the brink of shutting it down because homeschooling mothers are notorious for insisting that their particular demands are perfectly reasonable and not burdensome while they forget that the teacher is dealing with a group of homeschooling mothers, not them as a single individual. I have friends who are ps and charter teachers-homeschooling mothers have a bad reputation just like school teacher parents have a bad reputation because they tend to tell teachers what to do in their own classrooms. Sorry, I have little patience for homeschoolers who are granted an educational  opportunity by a taxpayer funded school and then they make demands outside what the teacher and administration have determined is best for the class as a whole to meet their goals and state requirements. 

 

It's also why so many homeschoolers will never run or teach in a co-op ever again.  If you want it done your way, do it yourself.  If you're attending someone else's group, either participate in at as the person teaching it has it planned, or bow out and find something you can participate in as is. Or come up with your own co-op for academics that allow for children of different ages but similar abilities.

 

I'm sorry the academics aren't a good fit for your kid.  That sucks.  Provide the academics yourself.

 

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.  I do provide the academics myself, and I've never expected my kids to learn anything academic at school.  I'm not asking the teacher to actually teach anything to my DS#2.

 

I'm not sure that I can agree that no differentiation can or should occur in a typical school setting though.  Very few children fit exactly in the mold, and all children benefit from little tweaks to the usual programming.  It's my understanding that in a typical classroom there are children performing within a span of about 5 grade levels.  It seems like it would be disastrous not to differentiate.  I can certainly see how that would be challenging, but at least some attempt should be made, IMO.  Obviously, the farther from the norm a child is, the less likely their needs will be adequately met, but meeting them partway is better than not trying at all.  

 

With a student-teach ratio that is generally in the 5-8:1 range, wouldn't differentiation at the charter be even easier than in a regular classroom?  Sounds like large family homeschooling ratios, lol.

 

No, I don't *have* to send my kids to school, but, supposedly, they have that right... right?  The school is publicly funded, yes, so taxpayers are paying for the vast majority of this.  Our family is among those tax payers.  My perspective may be skewed somewhat because my youngest is in the process of transitioning from early intervention into public special education, so I'm in a sea of educational rights and goal setting right now.  "All children have the right to a free public education," the saying goes.  Why would this apply only to special needs children?  I don't believe my youngest deserves an education any more than my older kids.  All children matter and deserve to be met where they are.  For the far outliers this is not necessarily possible, but we are not among those far outliers, KWIM?

 

Tell me though, do you think it's unreasonable to request that my DS#2 be allowed to bring his own reading material to class?  The challenge books in the class are Junie B Jones books.  Is it too burdensome for the teacher to ask that she hand him a worksheet that is different from the one she already prepared or to let him read quietly while the class repeats phonics rules?  Keep in mind the student teacher ratio.  She is not overwhelmed with 30 kindergarteners here.  

[Carol in Cal.]

I'd hunt down a different charter if you really need them for curriculum.  I'd also seriously consider skipping out on the charter.  I would not allow my kid to be in an inappropriate placement for 20% of his schooltime and virtually all of his socialization time.  That's just not reasonable.

 

I used a charter, and our only requirement was to meet with the ES monthly, do state testing, and do a placement test at the beginning of the school year to show progress.  In exchange for that we received a substantial stipend which could be used for lessons, consumables, or curriculum.  It sounds like that would be a far better fit for your family.

 

One of the reasons this worked so well for us is that everyone knew, although I was nice and did not threaten, that I would walk if things were done right.  It sounds like your charter thinks they have you over a barrel.  Strategically, I would try to convey otherwise.

[wintermom]

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.  I do provide the academics myself, and I've never expected my kids to learn anything academic at school.  I'm not asking the teacher to actually teach anything to my DS#2.

 

I'm not sure that I can agree that no differentiation can or should occur in a typical school setting though.  Very few children fit exactly in the mold, and all children benefit from little tweaks to the usual programming.  It's my understanding that in a typical classroom there are children performing within a span of about 5 grade levels.  It seems like it would be disastrous not to differentiate.  I can certainly see how that would be challenging, but at least some attempt should be made, IMO.  Obviously, the farther from the norm a child is, the less likely their needs will be adequately met, but meeting them partway is better than not trying at all.  

 

With a student-teach ratio that is generally in the 5-8:1 range, wouldn't differentiation at the charter be even easier than in a regular classroom?  Sounds like large family homeschooling ratios, lol.

 

No, I don't *have* to send my kids to school, but, supposedly, they have that right... right?  The school is publicly funded, yes, so taxpayers are paying for the vast majority of this.  Our family is among those tax payers.  My perspective may be skewed somewhat because my youngest is in the process of transitioning from early intervention into public special education, so I'm in a sea of educational rights and goal setting right now.  "All children have the right to a free public education," the saying goes.  Why would this apply only to special needs children?  I don't believe my youngest deserves an education any more than my older kids.  All children matter and deserve to be met where they are.  For the far outliers this is not necessarily possible, but we are not among those far outliers, KWIM?

 

Tell me though, do you think it's unreasonable to request that my DS#2 be allowed to bring his own reading material to class?  The challenge books in the class are Junie B Jones books.  Is it too burdensome for the teacher to ask that she hand him a worksheet that is different from the one she already prepared or to let him read quietly while the class repeats phonics rules?  Keep in mind the student teacher ratio.  She is not overwhelmed with 30 kindergarteners here.  

 

I would try to book a meeting with your son's teacher and the principal and see what can be worked out. It's worth a try, though just because everyone has a right to free education, does not mean that the free education is a good fit for every child. And trying to equate a small classroom with a large-family homeschool seems like it should work, but there is a huge difference between a parent-led multi-year homeschool situation and a one year classroom teacher. Parents tend to be a million times more invested in their own child's success, and often willing to make enormous sacrifices for their own children. Just have a read through a few threads on this forum and see the dedication, research and efforts parents are willing to do for their children. Few classroom teachers have the capacity to do this for every student in their class. 

Edited April 27, 2016 by wintermom

[Tanaqui]

And trying to equate a small classroom with a large-family homeschool seems like it should work, but there is a huge difference between a parent-led multi-year homeschool situation and a one year classroom teacher.

 

Among other things, even the very largest families aren't usually the same size as a modest classroom of children, unless they live in an area with a very high teacher-student ratio.

 

[wintermom]

Among other things, even the very largest families aren't usually the same size as a modest classroom of children, unless they live in an area with a very high teacher-student ratio.

 

True, but in this case the OP described the 5 - 8:1 student teacher ratio of the school her child goes to. There are plenty of 5 kid homeschooling families. I believe this is what she was referring to. In this smaller classroom setting, she is questioning why a teacher couldn't provide more individualized material to the students.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by wintermom

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.  I do provide the academics myself, and I've never expected my kids to learn anything academic at school.  I'm not asking the teacher to actually teach anything to my DS#2.

 

I'm not sure that I can agree that no differentiation can or should occur in a typical school setting though.  Very few children fit exactly in the mold, and all children benefit from little tweaks to the usual programming.  It's my understanding that in a typical classroom there are children performing within a span of about 5 grade levels.  It seems like it would be disastrous not to differentiate.  I can certainly see how that would be challenging, but at least some attempt should be made, IMO.  Obviously, the farther from the norm a child is, the less likely their needs will be adequately met, but meeting them partway is better than not trying at all.  

 

With a student-teach ratio that is generally in the 5-8:1 range, wouldn't differentiation at the charter be even easier than in a regular classroom?  Sounds like large family homeschooling ratios, lol.

 

No, I don't *have* to send my kids to school, but, supposedly, they have that right... right?  The school is publicly funded, yes, so taxpayers are paying for the vast majority of this.  Our family is among those tax payers.  My perspective may be skewed somewhat because my youngest is in the process of transitioning from early intervention into public special education, so I'm in a sea of educational rights and goal setting right now.  "All children have the right to a free public education," the saying goes.  Why would this apply only to special needs children?  I don't believe my youngest deserves an education any more than my older kids.  All children matter and deserve to be met where they are.  For the far outliers this is not necessarily possible, but we are not among those far outliers, KWIM?

 

Tell me though, do you think it's unreasonable to request that my DS#2 be allowed to bring his own reading material to class?  The challenge books in the class are Junie B Jones books.  Is it too burdensome for the teacher to ask that she hand him a worksheet that is different from the one she already prepared or to let him read quietly while the class repeats phonics rules?  Keep in mind the student teacher ratio.  She is not overwhelmed with 30 kindergarteners here.  

 

Demanding individuation feeds the fundamental problem of grouping children in academic classes by age rather than ability.There was a day in age that didn't happen.  It's crazy that schools have been doing this all along and the solution to the problem that works for everyone is not to demand the teacher adapt to widely different individual levels-it's to create ability based academic classes of near ability levels leaving non-academic classes there for age grouping.  It's unreasonable that schools have done the age grouping thing and most parents are aware of it. They're barking up the wrong tree for solutions.  They're demanding something that doesn't make practical sense, so to phrase it differently, they're demanding what, in all practicality, is non-sense. 

 

I know you think your child is special and unique.  Each kid is. Classrooms can't function effectively (even smaller ones) making that the priority. They have to function based the the greatest common denominator.  Your child doesn't fit the greatest common denominator.  No one is being mean to you or your child.  No one is claiming your child isn't special and unique.  The practical reality is that a classroom has to operate in a way that views the class as a whole.  Your child's differences throw a wrench in the works.

 

I'm really wondering what would motivate a person to insist on keeping a child in a setting that is clearly far below his abilities?  Are you trying to make a point about your rights? So you want your child in a setting where at best an exception can be made for your kid to do his own reading or the teacher hands the kid a worksheet they already know how to do (so the teacher doesn't have to teach a second lesson.)  What exactly does that accomplish academically for your child? 

 

How are your primary goals are socialization and rule following in a classroom setting accomplished by enrolling him in this class and then exempting him from what the other kids are doing in academics?  So the other kids will have to follow the teacher's instruction as a group through predetermined lessons, but your kid will get to sit out because he's special and read what he likes or reviews your worksheets that require no instruction or help from the teacher. The other kids will participate in group activities during an academic  lesson (commonly done in K lessons) but your child will sit out and do something else.  I honestly don't understand what exactly you think your child will get out of this.

 

You should sign up for a classroom setting when what's going on in the classroom setting is what you want your kid to do during class time. That's what the taxpayers are paying for-for kids to learn what the teacher is teaching.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[debi21]

Well, I am glad your first contact with the 1st grade teacher went well. She sounds much more reasonable, and it is good that you have a clear idea of what her goals are for that day each week. The K teacher makes no sense to me, trying to do a regular curriculum one day a week. So disjointed, when everyone is doing there own thing at home.

 

[Arcadia]

. It's my understanding that in a typical classroom there are children performing within a span of about 5 grade levels.

...

With a student-teach ratio that is generally in the 5-8:1 range, wouldn't differentiation at the charter be even easier than in a regular classroom?

...

Tell me though, do you think it's unreasonable to request that my DS#2 be allowed to bring his own reading material to class?

I am curious how you come about with the span of 5 grade levels in a typical classroom. For my district, once a child is more than two grade levels ahead, a grade skip is offered to the parents. It is the easiest and cheapest accommodation.

 

The ratio of 5 kids to a teacher does not make differentiation easier. It depends on the range in abilities. My oldest had the 3rd grade teacher as his one to one partner for reading when he was in K. No teacher was free to do one to one for math with him. Teachers tell me that my oldest is better served homeschool.

 

My private math tutor does tutoring in groups of three. The attention is not even because each kid takes different amount of time.

 

My kids have always been allowed to bring their own reading material as long as they pay attention during group activities. So if it is literature discussion, they have to listen and read the same book being discuss. If it is book report, they can use any book they choose. I never had to ask.

 

I had ALPs for both kids when they were in public schools. Their teachers would do hours of testing at the beginning of the year and then write a draft ALP for each kid. We had jealousy from other parents when oldest was in B&M public.

 

If your aim is to just survive 1st grade to keep the charter seat for 2nd onwards, then list for yourself what you see as a need and what you see as a nice to have. The school may just insist on a grade skip as their accomodation for your child.

[eternalsummer]

Reading this thread has been insane, I just have to say.  It's like 75% of posters have not read the OP's posts. 

 

From what I understand, the OP:

1.  Is not doing the charter school for academics.

2.  Is not doing the charter (from what I can see) for socialization, necessarily.

3.  *Is* doing the charter because it takes away the burden of testing/reporting/record keeping and makes curriculum free.

 

It is a one day a week program with 5-8 students per teacher.

 

I don't know where some posters have gotten the idea that there is no differentiation allowed or expected in even a normal PS classroom (with 25 kids, etc.)  The standard intervention in both school districts we've lived in for gifted students is differentiation.  If a student can be accommodated with basic differentiation it is generally preferable to a grade skip (which can be much more difficult for social reasons) or a pull-out program, which not all schools can provide.  Yes, this means that sometimes some students are not doing what the rest of the class is doing.  The same thing is (I assume, though I don't know from experience) true of kids who need differentiation or accommodation on the other end of the spectrum, right?

 

There are some educational philosophies that really preclude differentiation; we had DS in a Waldorf methods charter for half a year and it was a disaster for this reason (among others).  For the most part, though, we've found that teachers are happy to differentiate when they can, esp. if you make no extra work for them (sending in free reading books at the appropriate level, etc.).  I assume this is because it's easier to have a not-bored kid than a bored kid.

 

There are some whole=class activities that are impossible to differentiate - whole-class phonics might be one of them.  If everyone is doing this together verbally, it might be weird not only for the teacher but for your kid.  I would push for accommodation during individual work time and encourage him to push through the whole=class times with the rest of the kids.

 

 

All of that said, if push comes to shove and the 1st grade teacher is as rigid as the K teacher, maybe you can just take this year off for this one DS?  It would mean testing/record keeping and buying curriculum, but just for one kid for one year (and a young kid at that).  Then once you are in the class-selection model he can choose his classes and keep them non=academic and everything will be hunky dory :)

[SKL]

It seems to me that the time for individualized instruction is the 4 days that the child is homeschooled.  The 1 day per week of group instruction does not need to be individualized in order for this child to grow up right IMO.

 

What does the K teacher attempt to cover in that one day?  Is there a fair amount of music, art, science stations, phys ed, computer time, and social work/play?  If so, it seems to me that this would leave very little time per week of "being bored and miserable" because the child has to be patient with academically slower kids.

 

My youngest was also well ahead of her KG class in all subjects (tested ~3rd grade RL at age 5.5), and she attended full-time all week.  It wasn't a big deal.  The amount of time they spent on reading instruction was so small, I honestly don't know for sure that they did reading at all.  I knew going in that the school was not going to be her reading teacher regardless.  Similar comments on math.  There were other benefits to her going to school.

[TerriM]

We homeschool through a public charter that requires kids attend classes 8am-3pm one day each week.  DS#2 is 6y6m and in kindergarten (so an older K student).  He's working at about a 3rd grade level in math and reading+comprehension are around 6th-ish, though he usually chooses ~4th grade reading material for himself.  

 

This year I had an awful time with his K teacher.  She started out the year assuring me that she could easily differentiate for him, but she never did.

 

 

Yeah.........  I have no idea what teachers really mean by "differentiation" but it's not giving a kid 3rd grade math in Kindergarten.  Sorry.  

 

I'm just going to say it, but some teachers/principals say they can meet the needs of a 99th percentile kid and have either no clue or no intention of doing so.  And often they're overwhelmed simply trying to teach the regular curriculum to the regular kids and don't have time or energy for more.

 

I would take it with a grain of salt until the teacher takes an active interest in what level he's at by talking to him, and says "Wow, you know for him I'd do ____" and it is a concrete plan that sounds good to you.     Given that you're homeschooling and he's reading, the best plan would be simply for you to send in that days' work for him to work on quietly at his desk.  If she says no, what other options do you have anyways?

[TerriM]

Thanks, guys.  I'll talk to the teacher this afternoon about setting up a meeting to discuss DS#2.

 

There's kind of a long back story on his grade placement.  His birthday is a couple of days before the October cutoff.  We tried putting him in K for 2015-2016, but ended up pulling him out about half way into the year because he was so incredibly not ready to be in K.  He is emotionally and socially immature.  I was getting notes and incident reports every. single. week.  He was throwing crying-on-the-floor fits in class, not keeping hands to himself, getting into other people's things (like stuff on the teacher's desk), not following directions, wandering the room, the list goes on.  He made no friends and his attitude about himself became very poor.  We are actually still working on recovering his self concept.

 

So, we tried K again this year, and it has gone much better.  Behavior-wise he's fitting in with the other K students, he's made a couple of good friends, and his on-the-floor fits are almost extinguished.  His social peers are not the same as his academic peers.  He's quite happy being the oldest in a  group.  He is extremely empathetic does big brother well.

 

I talked to the principal and we can "skip" him a grade back to where he should be (starting 2nd this fall at 6, nearing 7yo).  However, I am hesitant to do so.  The school is very small; there are only 5-12 students per grade.  He already failed to make friends with the kids of that class, and he'd have to leave behind the friends he made this year.  Also, 2nd and 3rd grade are combined, and the school has a university model for classes 2nd-12th grade (passing periods, classes in different buildings).  DS#2 would very likely be in at least some classes with DS#1, which I'd very much like to avoid.  I'm also worried about him wandering and not actually making it to his classes at this point.

 

We want to remain with the charter school because that's where we borrow almost all of our curriculum and manipulatives for free.  It takes a big chunk of the financial burden of homeschooling off of our family to have the school's curriculum library available.  Enrollment in the charter also eliminates the need for me to keep records and arrange for standardized testing.  

 

 

UGH.  What are the other options for schools in the area?  It sounds like you need a different school with a new batch of kids where DS#1 isn't attending and to skip him up a grade.

[Cake and Pi]

When I originally posted, I was just asking for ideas on what to bring up with the 1st grade teacher for differentiation for next year that I might not have already thought of.  (I'm not concerned with K at this point.  DS#2 can handle a few more days of boredom.) 

 

I'm glad I asked here.  You guys have given me much to think on.

 

It seems that maybe it is not the size of the classroom, but perhaps the range of abilities within the class that determines how easy or difficult differentiation will be.  I had not considered that before.

 

I'm hopeful that with a focus on non-academic topics, there won't be much need for differentiation in 1st.  However, I will offer to send review sheets, puzzles, riddles, mazes, brain teasers, etc for her to give him when he completes his assignments quickly.  That way he's doing what she has planned for the class and not causing trouble afterward.  If she decides to let him skip the original assignments at some point, great; if not, no big deal.  

 

I'm fine with him just joining in with group activities, if she can get him to take them seriously.  He's likely to throw out incorrect or off-the-wall answers when called upon if he's bored.  He's my goofy kid and thinks he's way funnier than he really is, lol.  But I will just let her handle that how she wants.  Maybe she'll find a way to engage him, or maybe she'll decide to have him sit out.  Either way should be fine.  She was very enthusiastic and friendly with him on Monday.  She's certainly made a good impression on him and I think he'll want to stay on her good side.

[Cake and Pi]

True, but in this case the OP described the 5 - 8:1 student teacher ratio of the school her child goes to. There are plenty of 5 kid homeschooling families. I believe this is what she was referring to. In this smaller classroom setting, she is questioning why a teacher couldn't provide more individualized material to the students.

 

Yes, this.  It was a failed attempt at humor.  I'm on some large family boards and medium is considered like 4-5 kids, large is 6-9ish kids, and then mega is 9 or 10+ kids.  I read all the time about homeschool families with oodles of kids and I was cracking a joke in bad taste.

 

But ITA with you about parents being more invested in their children's education.  I don't expect the teacher to tailor a customized lesson plan to each of the kids in her class as parents do for their children at home.  I guess I just imagined it was more reasonable to ask for minor accommodations with a smaller student-to-teacher ratio than in the typical 25-30:1 class.  But, perhaps I was mistaken.  I've never taught more than 4 at a time before, so I really wouldn't know.  Thank you for your insight.

[Cake and Pi]

Demanding individuation feeds the fundamental problem of grouping children in academic classes by age rather than ability.There was a day in age that didn't happen.  It's crazy that schools have been doing this all along and the solution to the problem that works for everyone is not to demand the teacher adapt to widely different individual levels-it's to create ability based academic classes of near ability levels leaving non-academic classes there for age grouping.  It's unreasonable that schools have done the age grouping thing and most parents are aware of it. They're barking up the wrong tree for solutions.  They're demanding something that doesn't make practical sense, so to phrase it differently, they're demanding what, in all practicality, is non-sense. 

 

I know you think your child is special and unique.  Each kid is. Classrooms can't function effectively (even smaller ones) making that the priority. They have to function based the the greatest common denominator.  Your child doesn't fit the greatest common denominator.  No one is being mean to you or your child.  No one is claiming your child isn't special and unique.  The practical reality is that a classroom has to operate in a way that views the class as a whole.  Your child's differences throw a wrench in the works.

 

I'm really wondering what would motivate a person to insist on keeping a child in a setting that is clearly far below his abilities?  Are you trying to make a point about your rights? So you want your child in a setting where at best an exception can be made for your kid to do his own reading or the teacher hands the kid a worksheet they already know how to do (so the teacher doesn't have to teach a second lesson.)  What exactly does that accomplish academically for your child? 

 

How are your primary goals are socialization and rule following in a classroom setting accomplished by enrolling him in this class and then exempting him from what the other kids are doing in academics?  So the other kids will have to follow the teacher's instruction as a group through predetermined lessons, but your kid will get to sit out because he's special and read what he likes or reviews your worksheets that require no instruction or help from the teacher. The other kids will participate in group activities during an academic  lesson (commonly done in K lessons) but your child will sit out and do something else.  I honestly don't understand what exactly you think your child will get out of this.

 

You should sign up for a classroom setting when what's going on in the classroom setting is what you want your kid to do during class time. That's what the taxpayers are paying for-for kids to learn what the teacher is teaching.

 

 

I think that splitting kids up by ability for reading instruction in early elementary and math throughout makes a lot of sense as long as there are enough kids do do so (which there's not really in our charter).  I don't think that any of the other classes, even academic subjects, really ought to be performance tiered for the general elementary and middle school setting though.  

 

I used to think a system like that would be a good idea, but that was before I had a delayed child and really considered what it would mean for everyone.  I wouldn't want my own kid to be in a class with only other slow children.  I think he would benefit from being around children of superior abilities, just as they learn (other things) from being around kids like him.  There's not much community to be had in public school, but it would be far worse, IMO, if all the smart kids (I'm talking common smart, not HG/EG/PG) were moved to exclusive difficult classes while all the slow kids were shuffled off to be in their own slower classes.  It smacks of elitism, undiversifies the classroom, and unnecessarily limits disadvantaged students.

 

As for why I am keeping my kids in the charter, well, I think I've already explained that a couple of times.  

 

From my previous posts: 

1 - We get free curricula, manipulatives, educational games, posters, etc.

2 - It frees us from record keeping, homeschooling regulations, and standardized testing 

 

Additionally, though not previously mentioned:

3 - DS#1 (and eventually DS#2) can do enrichment classes that we either can't do or choose not to do at home.  Like Lego robotics.

4 - It's free babysitting once a week during which I can schedule DS#4's 2 hours of weekly therapies with less interruption from siblings and more involvement from me (so that I know what to do and can continue his therapies for the rest of the week between sessions).  It's also when I schedule his frequent doctor visits and follow up appointments with audiology/neurology/GI/genetics/endocrinology so that there is less disruption to the general schedule of my older kids and less chaos in the exam room for me.

5 - It satisfies an agreement between my husband and myself for "socializing" the children, as he was against homeschooling and wanted them all in school full time.  This was our compromise.  No, socializing was not one of MY goals with the charter, but them being in a classroom with other children is something important to DH.

 

We're not part of the charter for academics, and I am not trying to prove a point or any of the other things you suggested.  It's one day a week.  I'm ok with my kids doing 4-day school weeks.  Up until very recently we were doing 3-day school weeks and no one has suffered academically for it.

 

I don't understand your concern for tax payers.  We ARE tax payers.  We also contribute a couple dozen volunteer hours to the school each year.  

 

And public school is not just for typically developing children or even average children.  It's for all children.  Only the exceptionally rare student who is several SDs above the mean truly cannot be served by public school.  

 

Teachers are not paid to teach a homogeneous group of average students (if they were, they'd miss a third of the population).  Teachers are paid to be mentors, educators, and role models.  They're paid to inspire the future.  They are not robots pumping out identical units and inconvenienced by all who are different.  In my experience, most teachers aspire to meet their students where they are and help them on the road to becoming the most that they can be, which is different for every child.

[Cake and Pi]

I am curious how you come about with the span of 5 grade levels in a typical classroom. For my district, once a child is more than two grade levels ahead, a grade skip is offered to the parents. It is the easiest and cheapest accommodation.

 

snip...

 

 

The 5-year span of abilities I mentioned comes from information handed out by the school district as part of their Ready For Kindergarten program.  According to them, upon entering kindergarten, only 20% of kids are "at grade level" for language and pre-literacy, then there's 20% 1 year above grade level, 20% 2 years above grade level, 20% 1 year below grade level, 10% 2 years below grade level, and 10% 3 years below grade level.  This span, as measured by NWEA reading scores, is maintained through the end of 11th grade.  

 

Math scores begin with less variation and spread out over the course of the schooling years.  They start with about a 4 year span (1.5yrs ahead to 2.5yrs behind, earliest data shown is for 2nd grade) and end with roughly a 9 year span (3.5yrs ahead to 5.5yrs behind).  I say roughly because I'm just eyeballing charts on printed power point slides right now.  

 

They cite the Joint Position Statement of the International Reading Association and the National Association for the Education of Young Children: Learning to Read and Write: Developmentally Appropriate Practices for Young Children adopted May 1998, NWEA's published data for the fall and spring test scores of 2003 and 2004 for 2.3 million students (RIT Scale Norms, for Use with Achievement Level Tests and Measures for Academic Progress, September 2005, Appendix A, I believe?), and quote Dr. Jeni Riley of the University of London at lot.  

 

They handed out a whole book about it to substantiate their stance that the first 5 years matter a whole bunch and to motivate parents to participate in the Ready program.  It's called Extraordinary Parents by Lynn Fielding.  I have a copy somewhere in my basement, I think...

[Cake and Pi]

Reading this thread has been insane, I just have to say.  It's like 75% of posters have not read the OP's posts. 

 

From what I understand, the OP:

1.  Is not doing the charter school for academics.

2.  Is not doing the charter (from what I can see) for socialization, necessarily.

3.  *Is* doing the charter because it takes away the burden of testing/reporting/record keeping and makes curriculum free.

 

It is a one day a week program with 5-8 students per teacher.

 

I don't know where some posters have gotten the idea that there is no differentiation allowed or expected in even a normal PS classroom (with 25 kids, etc.)  The standard intervention in both school districts we've lived in for gifted students is differentiation.  If a student can be accommodated with basic differentiation it is generally preferable to a grade skip (which can be much more difficult for social reasons) or a pull-out program, which not all schools can provide.  Yes, this means that sometimes some students are not doing what the rest of the class is doing.  The same thing is (I assume, though I don't know from experience) true of kids who need differentiation or accommodation on the other end of the spectrum, right?

 

There are some educational philosophies that really preclude differentiation; we had DS in a Waldorf methods charter for half a year and it was a disaster for this reason (among others).  For the most part, though, we've found that teachers are happy to differentiate when they can, esp. if you make no extra work for them (sending in free reading books at the appropriate level, etc.).  I assume this is because it's easier to have a not-bored kid than a bored kid.

 

There are some whole=class activities that are impossible to differentiate - whole-class phonics might be one of them.  If everyone is doing this together verbally, it might be weird not only for the teacher but for your kid.  I would push for accommodation during individual work time and encourage him to push through the whole=class times with the rest of the kids.

 

 

All of that said, if push comes to shove and the 1st grade teacher is as rigid as the K teacher, maybe you can just take this year off for this one DS?  It would mean testing/record keeping and buying curriculum, but just for one kid for one year (and a young kid at that).  Then once you are in the class-selection model he can choose his classes and keep them non=academic and everything will be hunky dory :)

 

If I could quadruple-like your post, I would. 

[Cake and Pi]

Yeah.........  I have no idea what teachers really mean by "differentiation" but it's not giving a kid 3rd grade math in Kindergarten.  Sorry.  

 

I'm just going to say it, but some teachers/principals say they can meet the needs of a 99th percentile kid and have either no clue or no intention of doing so.  And often they're overwhelmed simply trying to teach the regular curriculum to the regular kids and don't have time or energy for more.

 

I would take it with a grain of salt until the teacher takes an active interest in what level he's at by talking to him, and says "Wow, you know for him I'd do ____" and it is a concrete plan that sounds good to you.     Given that you're homeschooling and he's reading, the best plan would be simply for you to send in that days' work for him to work on quietly at his desk.  If she says no, what other options do you have anyways?

 

I talked to DS#1 (who was 6m younger but at a similar place academically in K) about what the old K teacher did with him that he never once complained of boredom in her class.  He says that he started out the year finishing all his assignments quickly and would go to her and ask her for something harder, so she just upped the difficulty until she found something he didn't do quickly and come back for more.  He says, for example, that when the other kids were supposed to add bunnies, he was told to multiply them.  He tells me that at the beginning of the year he had to participate in all the group activities, but that by the end of the year the old K teacher let him read in the book corner or play quietly with math manipulatives. 

 

I never had to talk to her about differentiation.  She just did it.  She started the year with one-on-one assessments of each of the students.

[Cake and Pi]

And sorry for posting 100 times.  MultiQuote wasn't going to work for me today.

[Arcadia]

I never had to talk to her about differentiation. She just did it. She started the year with one-on-one assessments of each of the students.

My oldest K teacher did similar but she told me homeschool would work out the best. I told her I need the "free" daycare at that point in time.

 

I didn't send my own stuff for him because there are some hot house moms and some envious moms and I wasn't keen on my kid being a target. He is also as tall as a 2nd grader at the beginning of K so that helps parents forget how young he really is.

 

My kid love to doodle and observe so he gives me a commentary on how the teacher teach or how his classmates do their work sometimes. However he has no interest in psychology despite his love of people watching.

 

I was told by many teachers that kids even up by 3rd grade and those who haven't catch up or haven't slow down would need accommodations.

 

His public school did very little science but he gets to do whatever experiments without teachers and parent volunteers hovering. So in a way differentiation for his class was how much autonomy the teacher gave to the kid.

 

My kid's K teacher is very confident and is okay with outliers even 2E. His 1st grade teacher needs hand holding to support my oldest. She was supportive, just have not met someone as intense as my kid yet and she is bad at math. We have a cordial parent teacher relationship working out all the kinks.

 

When we switch to the online public charter, they assigned liaison teachers that are confident to high school level and beyond. It was a much better match for teachers' ability to student abilities.

[eternalsummer]

Some of us live in areas that no longer offere differentiation or enrichment...its full inclusion. The nclb objective was to make 1s and 2s into 3s, so students who were 3s or 4s at the beginning of the year were benched. I had a kid in 3rd grade at the time. LA started by repeating the same program as the year before, until the sped teacher became frustrated when it became apparent that the nonsped children remembered not just the stories, but the answers to the discussion and test questions. The school switched reading programs the following year and put them all back on grade level, no one allowed to go ahead. If you look at what the textbook publishers offer now, its a basal for whole class, with material for pullout for those below grade level. There is also material for above grade level, but its not offered here. All classrooms are on same page, do same units in same way, with one person coordinating the effort per grade level. Its one size fits all.

 

The Opt Out movement is the objection to the resultant dumb down, by those who werent able to homeschool, get into a charter, or afford a private. The district here basically tells bright 15 year olds to leave and go to CC, on their own dime. The admin has no interest in college prep...the money is in school-to-work and special needs, and the course offerings reflect that political position. If you look at the civil rights work being done, you will see its not unusual. The amount of high schools offering Calc is app 63%, high school level Physics 50%, etc...no need to offer when there is no path to get there or that group of students has been told to get out.

 

 

Jeez, that sounds like a nightmare.  I thought our two school experiences were kind of mediocre but at least they weren't quite that bad.

 

Most of the problems we have run into with differentiation are just with convincing the teacher that 4th-grade books in 3rd grade won't be quite enough.  I have not yet found the perfect solution.

 

I remember in elementary school being required to do group work or partner work always with a kid on the low/lowest end of the spectrum, so I could teach him/her.  That was a stupid idea 20 years ago!  They always excused it with, "you'll remember the material better by teaching it" - that's great and all, but this wasn't material I was going to forget anyway.  I can't believe they're still doing stuff like that in some places.

[wintermom]

 

Yes, this.  It was a failed attempt at humor.  I'm on some large family boards and medium is considered like 4-5 kids, large is 6-9ish kids, and then mega is 9 or 10+ kids.  I read all the time about homeschool families with oodles of kids and I was cracking a joke in bad taste.

 

But ITA with you about parents being more invested in their children's education.  I don't expect the teacher to tailor a customized lesson plan to each of the kids in her class as parents do for their children at home.  I guess I just imagined it was more reasonable to ask for minor accommodations with a smaller student-to-teacher ratio than in the typical 25-30:1 class.  But, perhaps I was mistaken.  I've never taught more than 4 at a time before, so I really wouldn't know.  Thank you for your insight.

 

 

I have to admit that I missed the point you made about the classroom situation being one day a week. If my ds was socaily enjoying and benefiting from the one day and week with a small group of children, I'd just go with the flow and not worry too much. You're providing the academics at home.

[TerriM]

I talked to DS#1 (who was 6m younger but at a similar place academically in K) about what the old K teacher did with him that he never once complained of boredom in her class.  He says that he started out the year finishing all his assignments quickly and would go to her and ask her for something harder, so she just upped the difficulty until she found something he didn't do quickly and come back for more.  He says, for example, that when the other kids were supposed to add bunnies, he was told to multiply them.  He tells me that at the beginning of the year he had to participate in all the group activities, but that by the end of the year the old K teacher let him read in the book corner or play quietly with math manipulatives. 

 

I never had to talk to her about differentiation.  She just did it.  She started the year with one-on-one assessments of each of the students.

 

I'm glad you had such a good experience.  My experience was that the differentiation done in one grade was only about 50% harder, and my kid knew it anyways. He knew 75% of the material before school started, and he knew 75% of the material for the next grade up too.  

 

I feel like "Differentiation" is a buzz word teachers throw out, but practically speaking it means a little easier homework for one group, a little harder for another.   It's not "Individualization" which is what many kids really need and what parents think they're getting.  That sounds like what you actually got from DS #1's K teacher.

[HS Mom in NC]

Taxpayers are entitled to the pubic charter school education the public charter school provides, not what is essentially individual tutoring inside a classroom. You want the government "freebie"  then you take the government school's lesson plans and teaching approach. If you want something customized, pay for customization yourself. The taxpayers aren't paying for customization.  Charter school teachers may have all homeschooled kids in this classroom, but they aren't hired to homeschool them.  Homeschooling them is about customizing and public classrooms are about teaching everyone as a group. 

This attitude that the teacher need to customize to my child is going to eventually bring an end to public schools extending their services to homeschoolers because many homeschoolers are bringing unrealistic, impractical demands. 

There are plenty of other activities children can participate in for socializing. You shouldn't be socializing on the taxpayer's dime.  If you want babysitting, you should pay for it yourself.  The taxpayers don't fund government schooling for babysitting services to overwhelmed parents. They vote for tax increases to ps for academics to be taught to groups of children together, not socialization.

[mathnerd]

Taxpayers are entitled to the pubic charter school education the public charter school provides, not what is essentially individual tutoring inside a classroom. You want the government "freebie"  then you take the government school's lesson plans and teaching approach. If you want something customized, pay for customization yourself. 

California public schools (which unfortunately my family does not use) offer "differentiation", "acceleration", "ability grouping" etc in my county in lieu of gifted programming. They consider these as part of their offerings to fulfill their purpose of providing a free and "appropriate" public education for all. Giftedness is considered a special need. A parent who asks for accommodation of the sort that the OP is expecting is called an "advocate" for their kids. In my school district, where the real estate prices are astronomical due to the good schools that provide all these accommodations for accelerated learners, the citizens demand individualization because they pay high property taxes for their houses and they don't consider them "freebies". There are many parents who sue the school district and have judges instruct the school district on how to appropriately educate a child according to his strengths (or weaknesses).

[TerriM]

California public schools (which unfortunately my family does not use) offer "differentiation", "acceleration", "ability grouping" etc in my county in lieu of gifted programming. They consider these as part of their offerings to fulfill their purpose of providing a free and "appropriate" public education for all. Giftedness is considered a special need. A parent who asks for accommodation of the sort that the OP is expecting is called an "advocate" for their kids. In my school district, where the real estate prices are astronomical due to the good schools that provide all these accommodations for accelerated learners, the citizens demand individualization because they pay high property taxes for their houses and they don't consider them "freebies". There are many parents who sue the school district and have judges instruct the school district on how to appropriately educate a child according to his strengths (or weaknesses).

 

LOL....  the Bay Area is an entity unto itself....

 

Benefit:  Education is valued, and I don't feel out of place not watching sports and drinking beer on weekends. Neither do my kids when they're around the right crowd.

 

Drawback:  Paly's suicide rate, and the fact that it takes two PHDs from Ivy league schools to afford a reasonable house on the peninsula right now.

 

But you are right that the expectations on public schools here are probably way different than those elsewhere.  

Edited May 2, 2016 by tiuzzol2

[Arcadia]

LOL....  the Bay Area is an entity unto itself....

 

But you are right that the expectations on public schools here are probably way different than those elsewhere.  

 

The thing is that if Ocean Grove, Connections Academy or CAVA works for the child,  you could get a very customized public school education.  At the high school level it is even easier as the school district pays for DE for whatever is beyond what they offer, other than the parent doing the driving to and from school and community college. 

[TerriM]

The thing is that if Ocean Grove, Connections Academy or CAVA works for the child,  you could get a very customized public school education.  At the high school level it is even easier as the school district pays for DE for whatever is beyond what they offer, other than the parent doing the driving to and from school and community college. 

 

True if you like the people and the programs....some are better than others.  Some have a bit too much infighting and disorganization to be worth it.

Edited May 3, 2016 by tiuzzol2

[Cake and Pi]

Taxpayers are entitled to the pubic charter school education the public charter school provides, not what is essentially individual tutoring inside a classroom. You want the government "freebie"  then you take the government school's lesson plans and teaching approach. If you want something customized, pay for customization yourself. The taxpayers aren't paying for customization.  Charter school teachers may have all homeschooled kids in this classroom, but they aren't hired to homeschool them.  Homeschooling them is about customizing and public classrooms are about teaching everyone as a group. 

 

This attitude that the teacher need to customize to my child is going to eventually bring an end to public schools extending their services to homeschoolers because many homeschoolers are bringing unrealistic, impractical demands. 

 

There are plenty of other activities children can participate in for socializing. You shouldn't be socializing on the taxpayer's dime.  If you want babysitting, you should pay for it yourself.  The taxpayers don't fund government schooling for babysitting services to overwhelmed parents. They vote for tax increases to ps for academics to be taught to groups of children together, not socialization.

 

I appreciate your feedback, but I find it difficult to apply your arguments to our situation. 

 

I'm not asking for individual tutoring in a classroom. I've never asked the teacher to teach my child any thing at all.  I'm only trying to find ways to keep my kid productively occupied while in a classroom one day each week NEXT YEAR with a different teacher.

 

Our charter is a public choice school founded by and for homeschoolers. The charter is not "extending its services to homeschoolers." It exists to serve homeschoolers.

 

How do you suppose a teacher would go about teaching everyone identically in a setting where every single child is doing their own thing with their own curriculum at their own pace with a different instructor 80+% of the time? 1) Not one of those kids could possibly be on the same page and 2) the charter does not have a set lesson plan/ teaching approach/ curricula. There is an extensive curriculum library and parents pick and choose what to use with their students.

 

I am NOT sending my kids to the charter for socialization. See one (or two or three) of my previous posts for why we choose to use the charter. I said that for social reasons, I will not grade skip my DS#2.... which has nothing to do with why he's there in the first place.

 

I think you and I may have to agree to disagree on the purpose of public school. You've heard about IEPs right? Individual Education Plans? These are part of educational law, therefore law makers and the voting portion of the population (presumably mostly taxpayers) do want to accommodate students who cannot be adequately served by standard instruction and methods aimed at the core.

 

And public school most certainly IS child care for every child enrolled. As soon as kids are old enough to be enrolled, the family is released from paying for child care during school hours. They no longer have to pay a babysitter if they send their kids to school. Without the child care afforded by a "free" and public education, millions more low income families would fall into poverty, thereby further burdening taxpayers.

 

Did I mention that we are taxpayers???? We already paid (and will continue to pay for the rest of our days) for the public education to which our children are entitled.

[SKL]

I'm confused - if they aren't doing academics then why should your son be doing academics while he's there?

 

It's OK if he's a little bored sometimes.  That's what daydreaming is for.

 

If you use the public school (or any school), you have to accept that sometimes your kid is going to be "bored."  My sister says her kid blabs in class (and gets in trouble) because she's "bored."  Well, by school age a child should not need to be entertained all the time.  She should be able to put up with a little bit of waiting and maybe even try to take an interest in what others are doing.

[Tanaqui]

She should be able to put up with a little bit of waiting and maybe even try to take an interest in what others are doing.

 

You're not supposed to take an inordinate interest in what other people are doing in any classroom I've been in, except at designated times.

 

[Cake and Pi]

I'm confused - if they aren't doing academics then why should your son be doing academics while he's there?

 

It's OK if he's a little bored sometimes.  That's what daydreaming is for.

 

If you use the public school (or any school), you have to accept that sometimes your kid is going to be "bored."  My sister says her kid blabs in class (and gets in trouble) because she's "bored."  Well, by school age a child should not need to be entertained all the time.  She should be able to put up with a little bit of waiting and maybe even try to take an interest in what others are doing.

 

They do do academics, but we are not part of the charter for the academics.  I don't send the kids to school for the purpose of learning (which is why I said I was not trying to procure custom tailored lesson plans for DS#2).

 

The K (and now but not previously) 1st grade classrooms are different than 2nd-12th grade because they are self contained.  They try to recreate a typical day of school for those grades, but only one day per week, and without a common curriculum/scope & sequence/ lesson plan.  Because kids are doing their own thing for the rest of the week, there can be very little continuity between school and home in K and 1st; therefore it doesn't make sense to do much in the way of academics, and it'd be asinine to attempt to stick to a one-size-fits-all lesson plan without at least trying to adapt to the kids' various abilities and experiences.  

 

In the higher grades, the parent signs up for each individual class the student is to take, and each of those classes has a syllabus with a set curriculum and the kids stay on a schedule with lessons at the school.  They're sent home with homework for each day of the rest of the week and specific lessons to be taught by the parents before the next class meeting.  The classes are all multi grade. We, thus far, have chosen to enroll in mostly non-academic subjects for DS#1 in order to avoid this rigidity and will do the same for DS#2 once he hits 2nd grade.

 

This year DS#2's dealt with quite a bit of boredom and after bringing it up with the K teacher 2 or 3 times, I just dropped it.  Like you mentioned, it's okay to be bored sometimes.  I'll say though, that he's never complained of boredom at home and I do not in any way try to keep him entertained.  He does that all on his own.  He's very, very good at entertaining himself.  I have 4 kids.  I don't have time to entertain anyone, lol!  He's bored in the K class because he's told he must sit quietly until everyone else finishes what he does quickly and without thinking and because he's read all the easy readers in the class and isn't allowed to bring in anything else.  He doesn't want to go to school at all anymore and that breaks my heart.  I want him to be excited to be at school.  Kindergarten was a blast for me.  That's why I wanted to talk things out beforehand with the teacher for next year.

[Cake and Pi]

For anyone curious, the meeting this week with the 1st grade teacher went fabulous.  She claims that they do very little in the way of academics and that what they do do is focused on enrichment, not the 1st grade standards (e.g. this week they learned about the different cloud types and painted pictures and made models of the clouds from cotton balls).  She uses class time mostly to teach songs, social games, manners, rule following, turn taking, classroom etiquette, crafts, working cooperatively in groups, etc.  It appears that I'll just need to give her a few busy-work type sheets for just in case, but she may very well not need them since, being the parent of a GT kid herself, she has a great deal of experience in expanding on topics for kids who need more.  He's also welcome to bring in his own books for read-to-self time.  It sounds like next year will be awesome fun, and DS#2 will get much needed practice not interrupting, closing the door when he goes to the bathroom, and following directions.

[TerriM]

You're not supposed to take an inordinate interest in what other people are doing in any classroom I've been in, except at designated times.

 

Yeah.... Isn't that called "cheating"? :)