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*raises hand* I like Palin though and have hope.....

 

I am watching here and just feel like the McCain/Palin ticket is SO handicapped by the decisions of the last administration. I am afraid they will not win, but even if they do, what can they accomplish aside from damage control?

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I am watching here and just feel like the McCain/Palin ticket is SO handicapped by the decisions of the last administration. I am afraid they will not win, but even if they do, what can they accomplish aside from damage control?

 

Right now I think all we can hope for is damage control. :confused: I am just hoping....and praying that *whoever* wins can help us all.

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Ok, I know that as usual, I am opening myself up for some pretty opinionated replies. But please, no opinions, because we all have them, right or wrong, and I just want facts.

 

What exactly has the Bush Administration done that was so abhorrent? Within 9 months of gaining office he faced something that no President had faced since World War II. Then amid years of speculation and fear and disgust, we finally acted against one of the worst dictators in history, and no one can agree whether there were WOMD. There have been repeated finds of places where there was evidence there had been in the past, but it took us so long to act that you could have moved a whole Mideast country in the time it took us to attack. He was given 2 years to plot and move things.

 

I have seen nothing really get accomplished because of the unbelievable polictical shenniganians and posturing of the Democrats who seemed to pant with desire for the Bush Administration to fail, instead of shoring up weakness or trying to unite the country. Since day one of Bush's Presidency, I have heard the Clintons and Hollywood go on a witch hunt. Nothing was passed in Congress due to fillibustering and then when the elections tipped the balance, nothing was accomplished because of the pork and entitlements attached to things.

 

I think every single politician should be fired and only people with real jobs should take the position and meet for 2 hours every night and 8 on Saturday to get things done. If you didn't have to justify your fat paycheck,( by the way, how many times has Congress given itself a raise in the last 2 years?) and drag out progress, trim the fat and get on with business, then we would see some progress. NO More Party lines either. One group, one name.

 

So there. :gnorsi:

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I mean, really, he can't make decisions all by his little lonesome. I am sure he didn't ASK for 9-11, and I think he did what he believed to be the right thing at the time.

 

Honestly, so many horrible things have happened during his presidency that he has had zero control over, and, aside from that, all he gets is crap from everyone. I just happen to like the man.

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I mean, really, he can't make decisions all by his little lonesome. I am sure he didn't ASK for 9-11, and I think he did what he believed to be the right thing at the time.

 

Honestly, so many horrible things have happened during his presidency that he has had zero control over, and, aside from that, all he gets is crap from everyone. I just happen to like the man.

 

I like him too, Stacey. Get over it, people!

 

 

Sheesh! He wasn't the greatest president but he isn't the worst. Anyone remember Carter?

 

AND, McCain is not Bush. Someone should tell that to Joe Biden because I think that he thinks he is.

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Oh, I soooooo am a conservative and no I don't blame Bush for everything (sorry I misread original post). I think that President Bush 43 has been the best wartime president, but his domestic issues I have not all agreed with.

 

And Palin rocked on this debate tonight! Yeah!

Edited by sdWTMer
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who just really wish GWB hadn't thrown away the last 8 years and ruined it for the rest of us?

 

I'm not a Republican, but I am a conservative on many issues, so I'm gonna answer: Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I could write a long, impassioned post about what I see as the many failures of the Bush administration in the arenas of national security, foreign policy, fiscal responsibility and a broader economic policy, environmental policy, education policy, and on and on it would go.

 

But I won't bore y'all with that. If you don't like Bush, you already agree with me. If after 8 years you still like Bush, then there's nothing I can say in 8 minutes that will change your mind. :001_smile:

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The last 4 bother me more than the first 4. He did face major challenges with 9/11. Did he make the right policy choices? Well, we havent been attacked again, so I would like to say at least some of it was on the right path. But, the last 4 have - at least - given the appearance of being duds. Maybe it is media controlled negativism. Maybe it is the truth. I dont honestly know. But, what has he accomplished to the positive side the last 4 years?? What has congress accomplished the last 4 years?? I do think the current republican ticket is a vessel constrained by its draft.

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we must've been typing at the same time. I just didn't embellish. I totally agree with you.

 

I will say that I do agree Bush is a spender, but really, with 9-11 and the massive costs of several major hurricanes that the government was just expected to dole out money for, I can't say that all of the problems with our deficits are his fault. And he couldn't do it alone anyway.

 

As for what's happening right now, blame the greed and stupidity of the banks who will loan broke people money just to make a buck, and the people who want everything right now and can't afford it. The biggest reason our economy is failing right now is ignorance.

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Sheesh! He wasn't the greatest president but he isn't the worst. Anyone remember Carter?

 

AND, McCain is not Bush. Someone should tell that to Joe Biden because I think that he thinks he is.

 

Carter has sooo reformed his image with his Habitat for Humanity work, but I was of driving age when the gas crisis hit in the late 70s and we had odd/even days that we could go to the gas station and nearly 20% interest(!!!) on everything, the Iranian hostage crisis....

 

I think Pres. Bush was good for the first few years and was definitely the right person for the country during 9/11. I can't imagine how awful it might've been had Gore won. (Remember for months and months afterward, they kept catching guys trying to sneak across the borders with weapons, etc.?) And I think history will judge that part of his presidency better than he's receiving now.

 

However, I do think that he's made some very serious missteps, not the least of which is the torture issue. That's just wrong and it's put our country in a very weak position with regards to other countries. I also think that some of that money could/should have been going quickly to supporting schools and economic help for Afghanistan/Iraq, as opposed to only military.

 

Part of the problem is that Mr. Bush followed a very eloquent president in Mr. Clinton, and he doesn't communicate very well.

 

The Bush/Cheney parallel is crucial for the Obama/Biden ticket to push. I heard one pundit say, "doesn't matter if it's true, as long as people think it's true" that Bush and McCain are the same.

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My main disapointment with Bush is that he did not act like a fiscal conservative. He did not veto a SINGLE spending bill in his first term.

 

:iagree::iagree: When he had the Rep. Congress and didn't use that opportunity, he lost ground for me, dh too.

 

I would love to see all these bills broken down where they say someone voted against education or against spending for the troops. Well, why? Was there something, or lots of somethings, in there that made it a no vote?

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I'm not a Republican, but I am a conservative on many issues, so I'm gonna answer: Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I could write a long, impassioned post about what I see as the many failures of the Bush administration in the arenas of national security, foreign policy, fiscal responsibility and a broader economic policy, environmental policy, education policy, and on and on it would go.

 

But I won't bore y'all with that. If you don't like Bush, you already agree with me. If after 8 years you still like Bush, then there's nothing I can say in 8 minutes that will change your mind. :001_smile:

 

:iagree:I could have written this post myself, and now I don't have to!

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To me, the difference was the feeling of trust. I have always felt that Bush was an honest man deep in his core, who, with human error, is doing the absolute best job he can under the circumstances he's been dealt. I also think he does what he truly BELIEVES is right.

 

With Clinton, I always felt he was playing us. He just has no sincerity whatsoever.

 

Another thing to remember is that Clinton was coming off of years of Republican leadership so a lot of the positives of his terms were actually things that were started in the years before. Bush came in after Democratic leadership and a lot of those policies and changes were kicking in during his terms. Add that to the fact that he has had ZERO cooperation for the last few years with the democrats taking over the house/senate, and what could he really accomplish?

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1. I always felt sorry for Bush that his presidency got hijacked along with the planes on 9/11.

 

2. I truly do not understand why they keep saying McCain is just like Bush. If he were just like Bush, the Republican base would like him more and he wouldn't have had to pick Palin to shore it up. There's Republicans who never liked McCain, I'm one of them, and now I'll probably vote for him.

 

3. Bush did one of the major things I wanted him to do, and he was successful at it: Supreme Court judges.

 

4. I never supported his education policy. Of course, I probably couldn't support any education policy unless it was Montessori schools for all dc who weren't homeschooled and funding equal to the amount charter schools get for every student for all homeschoolers.

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I like him too, Stacey. Get over it, people!

 

 

Sheesh! He wasn't the greatest president but he isn't the worst. Anyone remember Carter?

 

AND, McCain is not Bush. Someone should tell that to Joe Biden because I think that he thinks he is.

 

Hands down, Carter was our worst President. I like to say that he's the only President who (so far, anyway) caused me to flee from a country. Okay, I don't know if that's technically true, but even if it's not technically true, it is close enough.

 

And McCain is not Bush. That's just the meme the Obama camp has hit on, as their best way to get votes. And it works well for them.

 

However, no, I am not at all happy with a great many things that Bush has done in his Presidency. He's not the monster the left paints him, but no, I'm not happy with him, either.

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and I think that'll come into play again in this next term?!?

 

Anyway, I think he was dealt a pretty stiff blow right off the bat and handled it with dignity. I remember SOOOO many people thinking that it was so good Al Gore had not won. Heck, I bet Al Gore was thanking God Al Gore hadn't won! :tongue_smilie:

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Carter has sooo reformed his image with his Habitat for Humanity work, but I was of driving age when the gas crisis hit in the late 70s and we had odd/even days that we could go to the gas station and nearly 20% interest(!!!) on everything, the Iranian hostage crisis....

 

I think Pres. Bush was good for the first few years and was definitely the right person for the country during 9/11. I can't imagine how awful it might've been had Gore won. (Remember for months and months afterward, they kept catching guys trying to sneak across the borders with weapons, etc.?) And I think history will judge that part of his presidency better than he's receiving now.

 

However, I do think that he's made some very serious missteps, not the least of which is the torture issue. That's just wrong and it's put our country in a very weak position with regards to other countries. I also think that some of that money could/should have been going quickly to supporting schools and economic help for Afghanistan/Iraq, as opposed to only military.

 

Part of the problem is that Mr. Bush followed a very eloquent president in Mr. Clinton, and he doesn't communicate very well.

 

The Bush/Cheney parallel is crucial for the Obama/Biden ticket to push. I heard one pundit say, "doesn't matter if it's true, as long as people think it's true" that Bush and McCain are the same.

 

:iagree:

 

I was communting to college (quite long distances in fact) during the Carter "odd/even" days - don't get me started. Although I am a Bush supporter I am frustrated with his positions on many issues. Don't get me started on my love/hate relationship with Bush.

 

Let me put it this way. I am exactly 10 days older than Barack Obama. When he was still in high school (1978) I had just graduated, a year early. When he was "doing drugs" I was already in college, in those gas lines. Learning.

 

Long story short, I feel that as a "peer" of BO's , I feel more comfortable in my own skin than his to lead this country. I do not feel he is anything special.

 

I am also no super-fan of John McCain. But he is worlds above Obama in just about each category I can determine. So from a WTM "veteran" and certified old lady (now dealing with real menopause issues, not just premenopause), you have my viewpoint. Deal with it.

 

Hmphh. 'Nuff said.

 

~Dana

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The last 4 bother me more than the first 4. He did face major challenges with 9/11. Did he make the right policy choices? Well, we havent been attacked again, so I would like to say at least some of it was on the right path. But, the last 4 have - at least - given the appearance of being duds. Maybe it is media controlled negativism. Maybe it is the truth. I dont honestly know. But, what has he accomplished to the positive side the last 4 years?? What has congress accomplished the last 4 years?? I do think the current republican ticket is a vessel constrained by its draft.

 

:iagree:

 

And I think it is very important to realize - we haven't been attacked again. I know it's easy to sit back and think that that doesn't prove anything, or mean anything ... but I know enough people in the know to know that people have worked very hard, and stopped many terrorist attempts.

 

Would you look at that sentence? Obviously, I need more wine.

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And I think it is very important to realize - we haven't been attacked again. I know it's easy to sit back and think that that doesn't prove anything, or mean anything ... but I know enough people in the know to know that people have worked very hard, and stopped many terrorist attempts.

 

I agree. Think of how many attacks there were during the Clinton years. Each time he promised to "bring to justice those who attacked us". Ha

 

Just because the public doesn't know *every* thing about national security doesn't mean nothing is going on.

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Ok, I know that as usual, I am opening myself up for some pretty opinionated replies. But please, no opinions, because we all have them, right or wrong, and I just want facts.

 

What exactly has the Bush Administration done that was so abhorrent? Within 9 months of gaining office he faced something that no President had faced since World War II. Then amid years of speculation and fear and disgust, we finally acted against one of the worst dictators in history, and no one can agree whether there were WOMD. There have been repeated finds of places where there was evidence there had been in the past, but it took us so long to act that you could have moved a whole Mideast country in the time it took us to attack. He was given 2 years to plot and move things.

 

I have seen nothing really get accomplished because of the unbelievable political shenniganians and posturing of the Democrats who seemed to pant with desire for the Bush Administration to fail, instead of shoring up weakness or trying to unite the country. Since day one of Bush's Presidency, I have heard the Clintons and Hollywood go on a witch hunt. Nothing was passed in Congress due to fillibustering and then when the elections tipped the balance, nothing was accomplished because of the pork and entitlements attached to things.

 

I think every single politician should be fired and only people with real jobs should take the position and meet for 2 hours every night and 8 on Saturday to get things done. If you didn't have to justify your fat paycheck,( by the way, how many times has Congress given itself a raise in the last 2 years?) and drag out progress, trim the fat and get on with business, then we would see some progress. NO More Party lines either. One group, one name.

 

So there. :gnorski:

 

:i agree: And don't forget he appointed two great Supreme Court Justices!

Edited by RebeccaC
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My main disapointment with Bush is that he did not act like a fiscal conservative. He did not veto a SINGLE spending bill in his first term.

 

What about his second term? I am just asking because I am a dismal follower of depressing news;)

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Oh, yes and no. Mostly yes. Okay, very mostly yes. He has blown it in many ways and is a big spender. He's blown it with the border, he's blown it with decisiveness in the wars we've been pulled into, and I wanted to choke over his initial $700 billion bailout with no oversight.

 

That said, I almost feel down right sick every single time people place the bulk of the blame for the current financial crisis on Bush. Oh, the guy panders to groups he shouldn't, :mad: but when I hear this one from the democrats leading congress, I really do get sick from frustration that they are dare have the gall. Freddie and Fannie are not Bush's babies but those groups, along with the other federal demands of banks for mortgage quotas, started a domino effect that we will be picking up after for generations.

 

Why is that not a major issue in this election when we have so many senators running around out there with the "same policies that got us in this mess?" Every one of them, republican president and democratic ruled congress, should be hanging their heads in shame, not pointing fingers.

 

I'm in the camp that wants them all thrown out and the media right with them.

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To me, the difference was the feeling of trust. I have always felt that Bush was an honest man deep in his core, who, with human error, is doing the absolute best job he can under the circumstances he's been dealt. I also think he does what he truly BELIEVES is right.

 

:iagree: Part of the reason I don't discuss politics with my Dad is because he can't just say he doesn't like his policies, etc. He *must* tell me he's stupid, evil, a Nazi -- good grief. I don't agree with everything that's been done in the last eight years, but I do not believe the President sits in the Oval Office rubbing his evil little hands together snickering and planning nefarious schemes. I think he truly believes what he's doing is right and he cares about this country and the people who live in it. The poor guy can't *fart* without being accused of some evil intent! I really don't understand why anyone would want that job. Once again, compare a picture of him now to one from eight years ago. That man's face has aged twenty years, and shows the effects of many sleepless nights. I don't think truly evil types have much trouble sleeping at night.

 

With Clinton, I always felt he was playing us. He just has no sincerity whatsoever.

 

:iagree: again. I kind of got the same feeling watching him that I get when The Kid is trying to manipulate me. I don't get that feeling from Bush.

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I'm right there with you on the throwing out of the media! Can they make matters worse, or can they make matters worse? Sometimes that whole, "freedom of the press," thing makes me cringe. (okay, not really - I don't REALLY want to squash amendments, but still - don't they have any sort of a line they WON'T cross?)

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I would love to see all these bills broken down where they say someone voted against education or against spending for the troops. Well, why? Was there something, or lots of somethings, in there that made it a no vote?

 

This drives me batty. Dh and I were discussing it last night.

 

How in the heck can you tell which issue someone was actually casting a vote for???

 

I would LOVE it if there were guidelines placed on how many topics can be crammed into one bill.

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The Bush/Cheney parallel is crucial for the Obama/Biden ticket to push. I heard one pundit say, "doesn't matter if it's true, as long as people think it's true" that Bush and McCain are the same.

 

It took a long time of dh telling me that perception IS reality for me to truly understand what he meant. And he's right. It really doesn't seem to matter if something is true or not in the world of politics; what seems to matter is if it is believed to be true.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, I guess that application isn't limited to politics, huh?

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Yes. Absolutely.

 

I don't think I would be willing to give the Democratic ticket a second glance if I were not so very unhappy with the mess of the last 8 years.

 

I have not felt that we had strong leadership since.....well.....since Reagan. I guess that is why I am considering giving my vote to the guy who says he has a new gameplan. I am thinking that what has been going on thus far has not been so impressive. Maybe the new kid can bring something to the table that the old timers had not thought of? Maybe?

 

But yes, the leadership of the last 8 years has pretty much cracked my conservative foundation.

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This drives me batty. Dh and I were discussing it last night.

 

How in the heck can you tell which issue someone was actually casting a vote for???

 

I would LOVE it if there were guidelines placed on how many topics can be crammed into one bill.

 

So true. I think the whole system needs an overhaul. A bill should just be about one issue, clearly stated.

 

And while we are fixing that, can we fix the tax system too? What a complicated mess.

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YOu know that post that someone asked - do you post then delete it before you post???

 

:lol:

 

I'd love to post an opinion..... something my first Econ Professor told us (he was from South Africa, had a very interesting take on American economics and politics)......

 

But i've watched it happen and feel it's true.... and the cards are laid out.... and i'll get what i want in another 8 years.

 

:D

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I'm not a Republican, but I am a conservative on many issues, so I'm gonna answer: Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I could write a long, impassioned post about what I see as the many failures of the Bush administration in the arenas of national security, foreign policy, fiscal responsibility and a broader economic policy, environmental policy, education policy, and on and on it would go.

 

But I won't bore y'all with that. If you don't like Bush, you already agree with me. If after 8 years you still like Bush, then there's nothing I can say in 8 minutes that will change your mind. :001_smile:

 

And if you don't want to talk about his policies, I can easily launch into his ineptness and other character problems. I started becoming disillusioned with him when he tried to stop Gore's right to a recount, and then topped it by running to the US Supreme Court, not the actions of someone who believes in small fed gov't, and state rights. Or how a "good" manager ( a campaign issue) publicly embaressed 3 top-level Secretaries , including Powell, by not informing them that previous stated policy (campaign promises?) had been changed before they made public speeches. Almost inmmediately afterwards Bush made a speech, obviously contradicting them. One of the Secretaries was even sent to European conference without being primed about the switch in policy. Or maybe how he refused to talk to people and groups who disagreed with him. The first case of this I'm aware of was his refusal to talk to the Black Congressional Caucus. I hate to say this, but he's the President of the ENTIRE US, not just the 50% who voted for him.

 

All of this happened well before 9/11. I could go and on, but I won't

 

BTW, I'm more what used to be called a moderate Republican than a true, blue conservative Republican.

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who just really wish GWB hadn't thrown away the last 8 years and ruined it for the rest of us?

 

I am a conservative in that I am against spending more than you have, and I am for living below your means. If the government would have this attitude we would all be in a better place. ;)

 

 

:smash:

Bailout after bailout really frustrates me.

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Some things Bush has done have been frustrating...Spending, spending ,spending..

I think his major flaw, however, is not getting out there, on tv or in the public view, almost daily, telling people why his views are good, and really driving home his ideas..whether it be the war or anything else...he seems to leave it for other people to do, and the media doesn't agree, so they spin everything the other way...one of Reagan's great qualities is that he actually spoke to the American people all the time...Bush seems to think that selling his policies are below the office, but I don't think that is true at all..i think it is very impoertant to do!

 

Bush also put Alito and Roberts onto the court, and that is why i voted for him, so in the end...i am satisfied...I vote for the court and he did (in the end) deliver on that.

Just my 2 cents.

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So true. I think the whole system needs an overhaul. A bill should just be about one issue, clearly stated.

 

 

 

This is what the line-item veto was for.

 

I agree, Kelly...one bill addressing one issue. With technology so advanced, surely they don't have to have one bill that covers 100 spending items.

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Hm.

 

I'm frustrated and aghast and shocked at the rallying *perception* against Bush.

 

IMO, he was in office during the absolute worst, most challenging time in American history. No person, of any party, could have responded to 9/11 and the subsequent fall out without *major* issues.

 

I've been scratching my head at the conspiracy theories, the hate, the myopic viewpoints and the over simplification of the issues that came together in Bush's 8 years.

 

Terrorism, the Middle East "issue", energy, the borders have been complicated issues for years and under Presidents of both parties.

 

The truth is that we *shouldn't* be in Iraq AND that we should be there. The truth is we acted too quickly with not enough information AND that we were passive for too long. The truth is we can't win and we can't leave.

 

What I don't like about Bush is that no party really represents my perspective. Libertarian comes closest: small, local government is best, and to each their own on lifestyle issues.

 

The Republicans have come to represent a social doctrine I can't support from a public policy standpoint (I'm all for monogomy and I don't care who you have that relationship with. But if you don't choose monogomy, I'm ok with that as well as long as your partners feel the same way. Either way, I don't think the government should decide which humans get to marry.) I don't believe the abortion issue is best served from the government (the issues around abortion start *long* before conception).

 

Fiscally, I'm more conservative minded.

 

The Democrats represent a corporate social responsibility that I feel is not only best served locally and in the private sector but I believe the power and control that flows from the Democratic standpoint is dangerous.

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Hands down, Carter was our worst President. I like to say that he's the only President who (so far, anyway) caused me to flee from a country. Okay, I don't know if that's technically true, but even if it's not technically true, it is close enough.

 

And McCain is not Bush. That's just the meme the Obama camp has hit on, as their best way to get votes. And it works well for them.

 

However, no, I am not at all happy with a great many things that Bush has done in his Presidency. He's not the monster the left paints him, but no, I'm not happy with him, either.

 

Well, I don't think Carter was our *worst* president. That "honor" might belong to Grant or, possibly, Van Buren. Nor do I think that Bush faced the worst crisis or most challanging time in our nation's history -- I really think that honor goes to Lincoln, with FDR in second place (you didn't mention that, ML, someone else did; I just can't multiquote). That being said I don't think Bush is our worst president and I fully agree that he faced the worst situation since WWII. I think his main problem vis-a-vis the war is that with no significant military background or understanding of history he had to rely on other people. Unfortunately, he relied more on the ideological heir to Macnamara and less on the former general who truly understood all of the relevant issues in regards to invading a country (not simply the military ones).

 

As far as financial issues Bush is not repsonsible for the mess we're in today. Everyone (let me repeat that -- everyone -- Republican and Democrat) who was in power over the past 2 or so decades can honestly share the blame there. He and the most of the rest of the Republican party have fallen for the "financial armageddon will happen tomorrow if we (gov't) don't intervene NOW" shtick. And I don't think there's been a truly fiscally conservative president in quite a while, unfortunately.

 

It seems to me that Bush didn't really know what he wanted as far as running the gov't is concerned. One cannot say one is for small gov't and then propose and oversee the biggest re-organization and expansion of the federal gov't since WWII. And I'm not just speaking about Dept of Homeland Security (don't even get me started there. The sheer number of unfunded federal mandates which have come down to local emergency services is unbelievable). Or maybe he thought he knew and went about it in the only way he could think of...I simply don't know.

 

On the other hand I think he's been spot on insisting on the six party talks with North Korea, fruitless though those have been.

 

In short, I'm not a die-hard Bush supporter nor am I die-hard Bush detractor. I've been disappointed in much of his presidency, especially in the second term. In the interest of full disclosure, I do not identify myself as either a Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal. (Well, I probably am a liberal, but in the traditional meaning of the word...not the 20th century political-ideological meaning of the word).

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Ok, I know that as usual, I am opening myself up for some pretty opinionated replies. But please, no opinions, because we all have them, right or wrong, and I just want facts.

 

What exactly has the Bush Administration done that was so abhorrent? Within 9 months of gaining office he faced something that no President had faced since World War II. Then amid years of speculation and fear and disgust, we finally acted against one of the worst dictators in history, and no one can agree whether there were WOMD. There have been repeated finds of places where there was evidence there had been in the past, but it took us so long to act that you could have moved a whole Mideast country in the time it took us to attack. He was given 2 years to plot and move things.

 

I have seen nothing really get accomplished because of the unbelievable polictical shenniganians and posturing of the Democrats who seemed to pant with desire for the Bush Administration to fail, instead of shoring up weakness or trying to unite the country. Since day one of Bush's Presidency, I have heard the Clintons and Hollywood go on a witch hunt. Nothing was passed in Congress due to fillibustering and then when the elections tipped the balance, nothing was accomplished because of the pork and entitlements attached to things.

 

I think every single politician should be fired and only people with real jobs should take the position and meet for 2 hours every night and 8 on Saturday to get things done. If you didn't have to justify your fat paycheck,( by the way, how many times has Congress given itself a raise in the last 2 years?) and drag out progress, trim the fat and get on with business, then we would see some progress. NO More Party lines either. One group, one name.

 

So there. :gnorsi:

 

I completely agree. I started to say the same thing but you said it so well.

 

Heather

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And McCain is not Bush. That's just the meme the Obama camp has hit on, as their best way to get votes. And it works well for them.

 

 

 

 

This is exactly IT. And it is working well for them, as is so clearly evident in this post, with conservatives.

 

The best counter attack IMO is national security.

 

The U.S. has some serious enemies, many living on our soil, and they do not want to see America the free democratic nation it currently is. The republican party seems to see this, the others, well I'm really not so sure (please, that's not an attack on any of you, just my opinion). I'll be sticking with McCain, especially if it means "4 more years of Bush" on this particular issue. I'm thankful to Bush for not seeing any more buildings collapse in the last 8 years. Could it be better, absolutely. And I think under McCain/Palin it will be much, much better.

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Ok, I know that as usual, I am opening myself up for some pretty opinionated replies. But please, no opinions, because we all have them, right or wrong, and I just want facts.

 

What exactly has the Bush Administration done that was so abhorrent? Within 9 months of gaining office he faced something that no President had faced since World War II. Then amid years of speculation and fear and disgust, we finally acted against one of the worst dictators in history, and no one can agree whether there were WOMD. There have been repeated finds of places where there was evidence there had been in the past, but it took us so long to act that you could have moved a whole Mideast country in the time it took us to attack. He was given 2 years to plot and move things.

 

I have seen nothing really get accomplished because of the unbelievable polictical shenniganians and posturing of the Democrats who seemed to pant with desire for the Bush Administration to fail, instead of shoring up weakness or trying to unite the country. Since day one of Bush's Presidency, I have heard the Clintons and Hollywood go on a witch hunt. Nothing was passed in Congress due to fillibustering and then when the elections tipped the balance, nothing was accomplished because of the pork and entitlements attached to things.

 

I think every single politician should be fired and only people with real jobs should take the position and meet for 2 hours every night and 8 on Saturday to get things done. If you didn't have to justify your fat paycheck,( by the way, how many times has Congress given itself a raise in the last 2 years?) and drag out progress, trim the fat and get on with business, then we would see some progress. NO More Party lines either. One group, one name.

 

So there. :gnorsi:

 

ITA. Add to that, Bush did not remove political appointees from the previous administration. Those people helped to make his presidency 'ineffective'. And it's worked.

 

Personally, I think he's done a fine job. His only fault (if it can be called that) is that he went into this 'too nice' and hoped to end the partisanship that exists in Washington.

 

Also, our 'Republican' Congress under President Clinton did not do such a great job either.

 

But that's a whole 'nother post....

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FWIW, I blame our legislators as much as I blame Bush for the mess our country's in. Without all of them, we wouldn't have the Iraq imbroglio, The Patriot Act and related attacks on civil liberties, The Real ID Act, No Child Left Behind, the subprime mortgage fiasco, etc. etc. etc.

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It really doesn't seem to matter if something is true or not in the world of politics; what seems to matter is if it is believed to be true.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, I guess that application isn't limited to politics, huh?

 

That's what seems to be the issue with regard to VPs too. The perception is that with Joe Biden's forceful and self-assured delivery, and his years of experience, that what he is saying must be true.

 

It was interesting to watch the pundits talk about the debate the following evening on the news shows. One woman said that Palin had said something untrue and then described it....but what Palin had said was true (re: taxes). Then another guy talked about a Biden attack of McCain's policies -- the essence of it was that what Biden had said was untrue, but the pundit called it "muddying the waters." :confused: If it's not true, say so. Don't call it muddying the waters!!

 

Perception is what is driving alot of voters these days.

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I'm frustrated and aghast and shocked at the rallying *perception* against Bush.

 

IMO, he was in office during the absolute worst, most challenging time in American history. No person, of any party, could have responded to 9/11 and the subsequent fall out without *major* issues.

 

I've been scratching my head at the conspiracy theories, the hate, the myopic viewpoints and the over simplification of the issues that came together in Bush's 8 years.

 

Terrorism, the Middle East "issue", energy, the borders have been complicated issues for years and under Presidents of both parties.

 

The truth is that we *shouldn't* be in Iraq AND that we should be there. The truth is we acted too quickly with not enough information AND that we were passive for too long. The truth is we can't win and we can't leave.

 

 

:iagree: I think history will judge GWB much more kindly than he is currently being judged.

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Personally, I think he's done a fine job. His only fault (if it can be called that) is that he went into this 'too nice' and hoped to end the partisanship that exists in Washington.

 

 

 

ITA Here in TX it worked to do the "good ole boy" work with both sides and just be friends. Both parties, with wildly different ideas and values were able to come together to accomplish things.

 

In Washington, it seems the Party is what's important, not the country. Some of Bush's accomplishments reaching out are some of the biggest messes, IMO. For example, No Child Left Behind is a disaster, but he worked primarily with Kennedy on that, right? No one seems to be willing to really put the country first anymore and it makes me so sad to watch it.

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