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Literary Lessons from LOTR for co-op


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Hello,

 

  I am seriously considering teaching Lit Lessons from LOTR in our co op for high school credit

  No one is doing anything like this, so it's filling a gap

  Eventually, I want to teach histories (my passion) and Excellence in Lit classes, but just not yet

 

  Any recommendations? The idea is exciting and scary at the same time

 I've never taught any class, just my two children, who are fanatics about LOTR and my son has read The Silmarillion

and other Tales included in the book, so he will he very helpful

 

  Some things I plan on doing to prepare:

 

Watch and work thru Teaching the Classics

Study the other books in the Lit Lessons

Finish reading How to Read a Book

 

I will not be requiring essays this first year of teaching, as I don't feel qualified yet to grade other children's work, so it will be mainly a discussion-based course, and maybe other material in the student book, I don't know yet

Participation will be a necessity (and bringing Lembus bread on Frodo and Bildo's birthday and on the Gondorian New year gets you extra credit!)

 

Anyway, any suggestions?

Warnings?

 

Thanks,

Rachel

 

Edited by historymatters
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A warning from my side: we love LOTR and I was excited about LLLOTR  - and it flopped big time because of the large amount of busywork involved.

I tried to use it with my kids in 6th or 7th grade. There was a lot of vocabulary work and fill in the blank stuff that was unnecessary for them (they knew the words) and just booooring. The projects are neat.

So, when you adapt that to a coop situation, it is probably more difficult since the kids' levels will vary. I would not consider the vocab and fill in the blank parts appropriate for high school. Maybe focus on the extra units that present the deeper background material?

I think you will probably have to tweak the program and cannot use it straight up.

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I have not used this program yet, but I'm planning to use it with my 6th and 9th graders next year, and I'm hoping to mix some silly fun with more serious discussion.  I think it could be a ton of fun in a co-op setting!

 

For fun stuff, when I taught a co-op class on Treasure Island, the children REALLY liked acting out some scenes.  The more ridiculous, the better!  (They loved hopping on one leg while pretending to be Long John Silver and pretending to be Jim hiding in the apple barrel.)  LOTR could have a lot of great scenes.  Have everyone come dressed one day as their favorite character, and have them give clues about their character to see if the others can guess.

 

Food is always a hit with kids.  (When I taught Treasure Island, I took over the second half from a mom who taught it the first semester.  She had been giving out chocolate coins for bringing back the chapter summary sheets, so I felt like I had to continue that.  You could use lemon cookies for lembas bread or something like that.)  Amazon has multiple suggestions for cookbooks.

 

Compare/contrast book and movie and talk about why certain changes were made to the movie version and why they might have been necessary for the change to screen vs. paper (ie Tom Bombadil might have been great fun to see on-screen, but he didn't really advance the plot much).

 

There are a lot of threads here about LLfLOTR, so I'm sure you will find some great ideas for discussion and fun stuff!  I feel like there are so many ways you could go with it!

 

Re: Regentrude's comment -- I can see why that might be a concern, depending on the kids' backgrounds.  We will probably review some of that quickly, orally, but we won't spend a lot of time on it, since they know most of the vocab, plot, and characters already.  You might make the vocab and fill in the blank stuff optional and suggest that the parents review it with kids who need it.  It might depend on how familiar they are with the works already, though, so maybe you can see ahead of time how familiar they are?

Edited by happypamama
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A warning from my side: we love LOTR and I was excited about LLLOTR  - and it flopped big time because of the large amount of busywork involved.

I tried to use it with my kids in 6th or 7th grade. There was a lot of vocabulary work and fill in the blank stuff that was unnecessary for them (they knew the words) and just booooring. The projects are neat.

So, when you adapt that to a coop situation, it is probably more difficult since the kids' levels will vary. I would not consider the vocab and fill in the blank parts appropriate for high school. Maybe focus on the extra units that present the deeper background material?

I think you will probably have to tweak the program and cannot use it straight up.

 

Thank you

I agree about busywork and vocab work

Though I would like to make use of the vocabulary somehow; discuss it in class, something

 

I envision it as Socratic, lively, and in depth discussion-based class of interesting ideas

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I have not used this program yet, but I'm planning to use it with my 6th and 9th graders next year, and I'm hoping to mix some silly fun with more serious discussion.  I think it could be a ton of fun in a co-op setting!

 

For fun stuff, when I taught a co-op class on Treasure Island, the children REALLY liked acting out some scenes.  The more ridiculous, the better!  (They loved hopping on one leg while pretending to be Long John Silver and pretending to be Jim hiding in the apple barrel.)  LOTR could have a lot of great scenes.  Have everyone come dressed one day as their favorite character, and have them give clues about their character to see if the others can guess.

 

Food is always a hit with kids.  (When I taught Treasure Island, I took over the second half from a mom who taught it the first semester.  She had been giving out chocolate coins for bringing back the chapter summary sheets, so I felt like I had to continue that.  You could use lemon cookies for lembas bread or something like that.)  Amazon has multiple suggestions for cookbooks.

 

Compare/contrast book and movie and talk about why certain changes were made to the movie version and why they might have been necessary for the change to screen vs. paper (ie Tom Bombadil might have been great fun to see on-screen, but he didn't really advance the plot much).

 

There are a lot of threads here about LLfLOTR, so I'm sure you will find some great ideas for discussion and fun stuff!  I feel like there are so many ways you could go with it!

 

Re: Regentrude's comment -- I can see why that might be a concern, depending on the kids' backgrounds.  We will probably review some of that quickly, orally, but we won't spend a lot of time on it, since they know most of the vocab, plot, and characters already.  You might make the vocab and fill in the blank stuff optional and suggest that the parents review it with kids who need it.  It might depend on how familiar they are with the works already, though, so maybe you can see ahead of time how familiar they are?

 

Thanks! That's why I'm excited!

Yes, for Bilbo and Frodo's b-day, on Sept 22, I want to have a Middle Earth food party (1st Sem) and for the Gondorian New Year (2nd Sem)

 

Definitely do compare and contrast! My kids and I do that EVERY TIME we watch the movies (which is at least once a year)

 

Re: vocab, yes, I think reviewing vocab as a class at the start of each class is a good options

Also, encourage them to write down words while they're reading, let the parents now the kids can do the extra "busywork" if they so choose for extra credit

 

I need to get a gauge the experience the students have had with the books at the beginning, too

 

I'd love to have a dress up day on the Gondorian New Year

 

For fun, hang up a replica of the Mines of Moriah invisible doorway (the edging with the Elven writing) over the doorway later in the year

My son wants me to attach motion sensor with recording/download abilities to the door, so he can record the Elvish word for 'friend' on it so it can go off when kids open the door :thumbup:

Edited by historymatters
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Hi Rachel!

First, that is fabulous that you are stepping out and leading a high school co-op class! That can be very intimidating, but also very rewarding, so good for you, taking this on!

 

How long is your class period? Do you meet weekly? And for how many weeks per semester? I assume this class would be for the whole year (2 semesters)? How much outside-of-class work will the students *really* do, or will the parents really support by making time in their weekly homeschool schedule for your co-op class homework?

 

Why I ask is because the answers to those questions will definitely influence what you will be able to successfully do, and what you can reasonable cover in your class.

 

Right now, it looks like you're trying to move in two different directions -- a high school English credit (analysis of classic books), but also an enrichment class (book club type of discussion plus fun extras).

 

Since you're not going to be offering instruction in Composition or writing assignments & grading, and it doesn't look like you are planning on teaching literary elements and Literature topics -- both of which are crucial parts of a high school English credit -- it sounds like planning an enrichment/book club type of class might be the way to "get your feet wet" with teaching a co-op class. And since your own DC have a very high level of interest in LotR, you could complete an English credit at home with independent study, of digging into additional works, incorporating writing assignments, and researching topics of special personal interest.

 

One of the big reasons I suggest this route is that I did LLftLotR at home with our 2 DSs, and it really did need some additions to be worthy of high school credit -- deeper analysis of LotR than what is in LLftLotR; Writing instruction and assignments; and reading / discussing / analyzing / writing about additional classic works.

 

Also, I'm currently finishing up teaching The Lord of the Rings as a 1-year high school Lit. & Comp class at a co-op for a second time.

 

Three years ago, I led a co-op class that I had planned to base heavily on LLftLotR, but I quickly found that it just wasn't deep enough for literary analysis and discussion, and it had no writing component. (The goal of the co-op class was to provide partial credit (about 0.25-0.33 credit per semester) towards the high school English credit.) I ended up writing my own weekly take-home lessons with guided analysis questions (NOT comprehension questions!) to help us have a springboard for discussion. Without providing weekly questions, the students would have sat silent, as they just were not "fluent" in literary analysis and discussion.

 

That class met 12x/semester, for 90 minutes per class -- 65 min. for Literature, a 5-minute break, and then 20 min. for Writing instruction and explanation of the writing assignment. Students also had about 3 hours per week of at-home work (reading about 3 chapters/week; thinking through the weekly lesson I sent home with them; and the writing assignments.

 

Each week, I provided teaching on a literary element and a topic of Literature that showed up in that week's chapters, and I provided some sort of class activity to help practice and have fun with the literary element (or Lit. topic). Then we spent about 40 min. discussing the chapters, spring boarding from the lesson questions. Sometimes I would bring in some sort of "extra" for us for fun in class. Every week I tried to email the students a link to some fun extension or go-along having to do with LotR and what we had just covered.

 

It was VERY tough to cover 3 chapters per week through discussion and cover the literary element and Literature topic in only 1 hour. We really had NO time in class for covering any vocabulary. And we really had no time for discussing other works (other than me providing a brief overview of things like Beowulf or King Arthur works and the major connections these works had with LotR). And I'm not sure how the students would have scheduled more reading into the week, along with whatever reading was required by their homeschooling...

 

This year, I was able to extend the semesters to 16 weeks, so, a full 0.5 credit per semester towards the English credit by covering both Lit. and Writing. The students do weekly readings and a writing assignment, plus they read/answer the weekly lesson, which provides vocabulary words/definitions, special Tolkien words and history/background of Middle Earth people/events, and short articles of info on the literary analysis elements and Lit. topics that we're looking at in those chapters, plus the discussion "springboard" questions.

 

We are still going deep into literary analysis with LotR for 12 weeks/semester, but in the extra 4 weeks per semester we are covering 4 additional works: Beowulf, 4 tales from The Canterbury Tales, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and Macbeth. I will say, it is TOUGH squeezing all of the teaching and discussion for each of these works into just 2 class periods per book, even though I have the entire 90 minutes, as I don't need to also provide Writing instruction during those classes. And it is NOT speedy reading for the students, as the works are written in poetic forms, which is a MUCH slower form to read/absorb. Plus all of the archaic Medieval words and concepts to figure out. A fair amount of time has to be spent on answering questions just on "what happened" in order to get to actual analysis/discussion.

 

I say all of this just to help you get a realistic picture of what can be covered in a 1-hour co-op class -- not nearly as much as I thought or would wish! ;) So, again, encouraging you to relax a bit, and just go with a book club approach, and incorporate some fun extras and activities as extensions to reading the trilogy. Since your passion is to teach History, you would be able to bring in a good amount of Medieval History and culture, which really undergirds Tolkien's Middle-earth -- classed society and how that worked (king/nobles/landed gentry/villeins/peasants), code of chivalry, pre-mechanized/agricultural lifestyle, literate vs. illiterate cultures in LotR compared to Medieval culture, hand-made books (pre-printing press), etc.

 

Below are some links to  to help you in your planning. As hard as it has been to juggle it all, I've had a BLAST both times I've done my Lit & Comp of Lord of the Rings class. Here's hoping you have a super time with your LLftLotR co-op class next year! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Past threads:

"LLftLotR co-op?" -- more on how using LLftLotR in a co-op actually looked

"Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings" -- Karenciavo in post #8 lists some activities/extensions if wanting fun go-along activities

"x-post: Any serious Tolkien fansĂ¢â‚¬Â¦" -- loads of great ideas and links for exploring extension topics and creating your own high school level Tolkien-based Literature course (for your LotR loving DC), or, use some of the ideas for in a co-op class

"Norse mythologyĂ¢â‚¬Â¦ Just how much I have missed not knowing these myths" -- classic Lit to study to enhance a Tolkien/Lord of the Rings Lit. credit

 

Helpful Middle-earth Websites:

Tolkien Society

Encyclopedia of Arda

Tolkien Gateway

Mythgard Institute: teaching lectures on LotR by Dr. Corey Olsen: Fellowship of the Rings; Two Towers; Return of the King

 

Discussion question ideas:

Houghton-Mifflin: Lord of the Rings teacher plans -- some good FREE discussion question ideas

Penguin/Random House: Teacher's Guide -- free pdf, with comprehension questions, discussion & writing questions

Lit Lovers: Lord of the Rings -- free discussion questions

Cliff's Notes: Lord of the Rings -- essay questions

Teacher Vision: Lesson Planning Resources for The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit -- ideas for units on different topics; download for a fee

Tolkien Society: Teaching Ideas

 

Extension Activities:

- Sept. 22 = Bilbo & Frodo's birthday; serve cake and play Medieval games and recreation

- "a stop in Bree" -- the week you read about the Hobbits' stop in Bree, serve food they were served: apples; (rustic) bread and butter; (ginger) beer; cheese (gouda is like the medieval wheel of cheese with the wax still on it); and a blackberry tart

- try Tolkien Calligraphy

- learn Elvish -- Council of Elrond website; Arwen Undomiel website

- March 25 = Tolkien Reading Day -- everyone present a short reading from Tolkien

- watch JRR Tolkien documentary

- listen to Peter Kreeft lecture on "Christianity in The Lord of the Rings" 

- watch Animated Beowulf -- 27 minute version that is pre-teen/teen friendly and true to the original story (unlike the 2007 or 2005 versions)

Edited by Lori D.
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Hi,

 

  I love the very detailed post you gave, Lori, it was very helpful; I've read throgh it several times

  I would like to make this a sort of stream-of-consciousness post of mine, to continue to get advice and encouragement, as this whole endeavor makes me very nervous, but, at the same time, I know I can do it; it may also assist others, as well

 

I have been preoccupied this week in preparing for Passover, hence my silence

I have received my copy of LLFLOTR; am reading through How to Read a Book and been looking for a copy of Teaching the Classics seminar to help teach me how to lead a class (my children are easy to engage with in discussion); also want to get Bilbo's Last Song (to read at the end of the class) and Deconstructing Penguins to help me

  I know it just comes down to doing it, but I also want to prepare as thoroughly as I can

 

I want it to be more than just a book club type class, but without the writing component, I know it can't be a full-fledged whole credit course, either; but I'd like to design a 1/2 credit course

 

Thank you for following up

Edited by historymatters
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  • 1 month later...

I have a lot of ideas now, after reading through the materials and watching Teaching the Classics; I will post them soon for feedback

 

First, I realize I am not going to be able to use the curricula as written, so I will teach from the TG, as well as other inspiration; but I do like the fill-in summaries, since many/most of the students probably don't know how to annotate

Problem is, I can't copy the student book's summaries to hand ot to the class

 

Any ideas to replace those?

 

I thought about going over it in class as a review which they need to keep notes for the tests

 

Or giving questions to take the smaries' place

 

I also want to make use of the 'story chart' analysis method from TTC; which could actally take the place of the summaries (and be more effective and interesting, IMO)

 

Any thoughts?

Thanks

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I should say I got the go ahead for the class

 

How do I determine a supply fee when I won't require them to by the massive SB and particular LOTR version?

But I will be designing and printing vocab tests and other things

 

How much should I charge a month? It's a 1 1/4 hour class

 

Should I have a maximun # of stdents since:

 1) this is my first time

 2) I am having to create more/redesign more of the course than originally thought

 3) to enhance Socratic discussion

 

 

Edited by historymatters
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I have a lot of ideas now, after reading through the materials and watching Teaching the Classics; I will post them soon for feedback

 

First, I realize I am not going to be able to use the curricula as written, so I will teach from the TG, as well as other inspiration; but I do like the fill-in summaries, since many/most of the students probably don't know how to annotate

Problem is, I can't copy the student book's summaries to hand ot to the class

Any ideas to replace those?

I thought about going over it in class as a review which they need to keep notes for the tests

Or giving questions to take the smaries' place

I also want to make use of the 'story chart' analysis method from TTC; which could actally take the place of the summaries (and be more effective and interesting, IMO)

 

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

Since your goal is to focus on discussion, not comprehension, and since you already have the program, one idea might be to mark for yourself in advance a few fill-in-the-blank comprehension questions of the major events of the chapter and use it as a 2-minute "brain warm up" oral quiz to start each class. That way you don't have to find a replacement or print anything.

 

You'll probably also want to spend the first week or two of each semester week teaching annotation -- and since you plan to use the story-chart analysis method of TtC, I'd go over that as well. While I don't require annotation for my classes (and not sure many of the students actually end up DOING it ;) ), I do think that hearing about annotation on day 1 helps the students understand that my expectation is that they will be *thinking* about what they are reading, and NOT just reading to find out what happens nextĂ¢â‚¬Â¦Â  :laugh:

 

Also, I found it is very helpful to provide the students with a handful of guided discussion questions to take home each week for them to think about as they were reading the chapters that we would discuss at the next class. Not only does that give us something to springboard from during the class discussion, but it gets them to slow down in their reading and  thinkdeeper than just "what happened" in the plot.

 

One thing I found very useful for kick-starting discussion on The Lord of the Rings each week was writing on the whiteboard their "headlines" or "key thought" for each of the chapters we were covering that week. I'd ask:

"How would you summarize this chapter in a short sentence or phrase?"

or "What would YOUR a headline or chapter title for this chapter be ?"

or, "What was the key or most important plot event, or, key character choice in this chapter?"

or, "What was the major mood, or, powerful image, or aspect that spoke to you in this chapter?"

 

Even if their responses were funny/goofy I wrote them down and then would see if I could spin it in some way to spark discussion. The point was to warm up and feel comfortable contributing, that NO idea was "stupid" or "wrong" and that there are MANY valid insights and viewpoints, and we can learn from one another.

 

Often, their contributions sparked discussion before we even got to the discussion question sheet and we'd just run with it, discussing what was important to them, and me gently guiding us back on topic if we started to get too far afield. Or, moving us on to the next chapter (or backtracking to the chapter we skipped over by diving into discussion)Ă¢â‚¬Â¦ The older high schoolers usually had more thoughts, could go deeper and could start the discussion ball rolling themselves, while the middle schoolers and younger/inexperience high schoolers needed very guided questions to lead into discussion.

 

 

I should say I got the go ahead for the class

 

How do I determine a supply fee when I won't require them to by the massive SB and particular LOTR version?

But I will be designing and printing vocab tests and other things

 

How much should I charge a month? It's a 1 1/4 hour class

 

Should I have a maximun # of stdents since:

 1) this is my first time

 2) I am having to create more/redesign more of the course than originally thought

 3) to enhance Socratic discussion

 

 

First you need to calculate your costs:

Do you need to purchase a copy of LLftLotR, and the books for teaching the class?

How much photocopying do you think you'll be doing, and much do photocopies cost in your area?

How often will you make food to bring in?

How often will you purchase a DVD or audio download to share in class?

Will you need any other special supplies to supplement class?

 

Adding up all your class teaching supplies, that might run something like this: $200 total for LLtLotR, books, TtC, DVD or other educational supplement, or special supplies. Averaged over the 2 semesters, that's $100 per semester for your costs. Spread over 10 students, that's $10 per student per semester -- spread over 6 students, that's a little over $15 per semesterĂ¢â‚¬Â¦

 

$10-15/student per semester = averaged out total supply cost

$10/student per semester = photocopies

$5/student per semester = food

$25-30/student per semester = cost of class

 

Class size, from my Lit. class experiences, what works best for ME, where discussion is a key component:

- minimum of 5-6 students and a maximum of 10-12

- group of 3-4 is too small and they feel put on the spot  and clam up

- 6-8 is the "sweet spot"

- more than 10-12 students becomes difficult to control, and you definitely you start losing the shy/quiet student participation due to size, so you have to work to find ways of incorporating everyone's input for discussion

 

Also in setting class size, take into consideration things like:

- Will the students be mostly older, younger, or mixed? And how will that work for you for classroom management?

- How much previous experience with Lit. & discussion have they had? And how will that work for you as teacher?

- Will any students have LDs or AD/H/D or behavioral issues? You may need to keep class smaller to keep it manageable.

 

For scheduling your 75-minute class:

- that time will FLY by very fast, so know what 2 or 3 key things you absolutely want to cover and stick to that

- have a predictable routine, which helps class flow for accomplishing more; for example:

5 min = open with comprehension "game show quiz"

20 min = teacher explains key literary element/class does related activity -OR- use a supplement or LLftLotR unit activity

45 min = use the discussion questions handed out last week and discuss the chapters, about 15 min. per chapter

5 min = end with vocab. "game show quiz"

Edited by Lori D.
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I envision it as Socratic, lively, and in depth discussion-based class of interesting ideas

 

You've got a lot of good ideas here, but I'd reinforce LoriD's classroom management questions.  The lively, Socratic discussions are always the dream, but some co-ops just don't work out that way.

 

How long have you been in this co-op?  How well do you know the students, and their families?  What will you do if a student hasn't done the reading in any particular week?  What if a student consistently doesn't seem to do the readings?  Are you going to assign grades?  What if the parents complain about the grades or other aspects of the class?  How will you handle absences? If there's a wide variety of ages or abilities in the classroom, how will you handle that?

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Thank you, Lori, that was extremely helpful!

 

You said:

 Since your goal is to focus on discussion, not comprehension,

 

 I will say that to me and my kids, discussion and comprehension are the same thing! :thumbup: , thogh perhaps others think differently on that score

For fun, here's Tolkien reading the One Ring poem: 

 

I'd love feedback on my class description; I may have to shorten it, but this is what I like, I hope I have the most pertinent info, without it being a syllabus:

 

Course Description:

 

Ă¢â‚¬Å“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your front door..., there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.Ă¢â‚¬

 

Inspired to write a story Ă¢â‚¬Å“to delight and move his readersĂ¢â‚¬, J.R.R. Tolkien created The Lord of the Rings; an Epic Myth that has touched the hearts of readers for generations.

 

In this study, you will learn more about Tolkien's Work of art by exploring its literary elements and influences that made it a masterpiece: the ancient epics, Arthurian Legends, poetic language, unforgettable characters, and more. Additionally, you will learn about the philosophy and life of the author who created the World of Middle-Earth.

 

 

Students will learn to engage in lively literary analysis discussions using the Socratic method; broaden their vocabulary and recognize literary devices through study and review in this 75 minute class. Daily reading with discussion questions to be completed between classes. This class will provide a partial credit towards English or count as an Elective. I will not require essays; however, you may at home, to complete an English credit; I can provide topics to parents from their reading. 

A syllabus will be sent to parents before classes begin for record-keeping.

 

Whether you're new to Middle-Earth or have visited this Ă¢â‚¬Å“secondary-worldĂ¢â‚¬ before, there is so much more to explore.


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by historymatters
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You've got a lot of good ideas here, but I'd reinforce LoriD's classroom management questions.  The lively, Socratic discussions are always the dream, but some co-ops just don't work out that way.

 

How long have you been in this co-op?  How well do you know the students, and their families?  What will you do if a student hasn't done the reading in any particular week?  What if a student consistently doesn't seem to do the readings?  Are you going to assign grades?  What if the parents complain about the grades or other aspects of the class?  How will you handle absences? If there's a wide variety of ages or abilities in the classroom, how will you handle that?

Thank you for your questions

 

Yes, I will set up a management plan, per LoriD's recommendations, definitely; if I don't plan it - at least a skeleton - it won't be successful

 

How long have you been in this co-op? 

This will be our third year

 

 How well do you know the students, and their families? 

I know a few of the families, but not the majority

 

 What will you do if a student hasn't done the reading in any particular week? 

Well, off the top of my head I would handle it thus:

request to see them after class, asking them why they didn't read what was assigned

tell them to create a plan to catch up in the following week and email it to me; I will also contact the parents that young person is doing this for such-n-such reason

It's easier to catch up ater only one week than to continually fall behind weekly; which also affects enjoyment of reading youngsters self-image, and the class as a whole

*recommend reading along to an audio narrration if youngster is a primarily auditory learner

 

 

What if a student consistently doesn't seem to do the readings?

Again, off the top:

contact parents again; discuss options, like alternating reading and listening to audiobooks, and youngster can make notes while listening

 

I would wonder if student wants to stay in class and discuss with parent what THEY are willing to do, as I can't make the child read

 

If parent if unwilling to follow-up with their child, and stdent is uninterested in material, then I see no reason for student to stay

 

  Are you going to assign grades? 

Yes

 

What if the parents complain about the grades or other aspects of the class?

I can be contacted via email or on the phone, or we can have a meeting

I'll listen and also ask questions ( based on what their concerns are); find solutions and respond to their concerns (some may be legitimate), if possible 

I'll explain how I manage the class, give grades, etc if that needs clarifying

 

I'm planning on having a write-up emailed to the parents to show how grades are earned

 

How will you handle absences?

Again, in my write-up, I'll put absentee policy

Basically, it's up to the parents and student stay on track regardless of being absent; if there is something I gave out in class, I will email it to them

Since participation is part of the grading, then I think the guided questions should be answered on paper (since they weren't there to participate) and turn in next class ( or child can email answers to me?*)

?Child should email vocab answers to me to check or I can get next class?*

 

*Don't know which is better on thos last two qestion-marked situations

 

However, it's not my responsibility to chase kids down for their work

 

If there's a wide variety of ages or abilities in the classroom, how will you handle that?

It's 9th-12th only, so 14-18, respectively

Abilities, I'll have to deal with on a case-by-case basis, I think

 

 

Feedback on my answers is appreciated!

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 I will say that to me and my kids, discussion and comprehension are the same thing! :thumbup: , thogh perhaps others think differently on that score...

 

lol. Of course, one needs comprehension in order to have discussion. ;)

 

What I mean is: it sounds like your overall goal and focus for the class is NOT factual short answers to comprehension questions like "What age did Bilbo turn on his special birthday in chapter 1 of book 1 of Fellowship of the Ring?" (a variation in wording on one of the first questions in LLftLotR's fill-in-the-blank comprehension question for chap. 1), but instead, your MAIN goal for the class is to engage in deeper, Socratic discussion -- as in analysis, which tends to be discussion of literary elements and how they are working in the books, character choices, worldview, themes, personal lessons and applications learned from the literature, etc.

 

And yes, LLftLotR calls the discussion questions at the end of the chapter notes "comprehension questions". (I would call those questions after the chapter notes in the LLftLotR as a mix of comprehension and beginning thinking questions. ;) )

 

Anyways, my point is that the fill-in-the-blank chapter summaries of LLftLotR are less likely to lead to the Socratic discussion / analysis you are hoping to provide. In contrast, some of the end-of-chapter LLftLotR "comprehension questions", but especially things like the "discussion" questions linked in my original response (above), are more likely to yield thinking and discussion in class. :)

 

 

From your responses to GGardner, it sounds like you have things well organized and know where you are going with the class. Yea! :) The only administrative things I would suggest is:

 

1. NO on awarding grades -- let parents do that

Since you will not be handing out / seeing / grading any writing assignments, and your class period / teaching time makes up less than half of the time spent each week on the material, I would NOT open the grading "can of worms" ;) . If you will be having quizzes or vocabulary tests or something to "grade", you could track student points earned on each quiz and total possible points, and hand those numbers over to parents at the end of each semester to use for their record-keeping and to help them award a grade.

 

2. Credit -- this program is too light to be worth 1 full credit**

Your plan from your original post of 0.5 credit is great for completion of the program; parents could very reasonably award 0.5 credit if they have students do the writing assignments.

 

** = Based on my experience: my high school class met 16x/semester, for 1.5 hr/week + 3 hours per week of at-home work (reading chapters, weekly writing assignment, and going over the weekly lesson material I provided to be prepared for the next class). Also, we not only covered The Lord of the Rings in depth, but we had weekly Composition instruction and assignments, and we read / discussed / wrote about: Beowulf, Macbeth, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and 4 of the Canterbury Tales. Added up, all of that together just squeaked in under the wire at 144 hours for an average (150 hours) 1.0 credit of English...

Edited by Lori D.
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it sounds like your overall goal and focus for the class is NOT factual short answers to comprehension questions..., but instead, your MAIN goal for the class is to engage in deeper, Socratic discussion -- as in analysis, which tends to be discussion of literary elements and how they are working in the books, character choices, worldview, themes, personal lessons and applications learned from the literature, etc.

 

Yes, that would be correct; though I would like the factual to be there, too, just not -as you said- the main goal 

 

 

it sounds like you have things well organized and know where you are going with the class.

 

I'm glad it sounds that way! It's a work in progress and I pray that any deficiencies on my part will not be noticed by others

My children and I (both 15) do this type of analyzation naturally, just as a part of living; they think I can do the class (my son, who is an encyclopedia on LOTR mythology and verbal, will be there in class, too, which actually gives me reassurance)

 

I worked in customer service for 11 years, owning my own hairstylist's station, running my own bookings, etc, so hopefully that training of dealing with people (including lots of parents) will come in handy

 

NO on awarding grades -- let parents do that

 

 

I didn't think of that; I'd love to NOT grade (as I do it begrudgingly at home because I have to)

Thanks for telling me I didn't have to; I'd not considered that there was an alternative :banghead:

 

 Okay, I have to rethink this: "track student points earned on each quiz and total possible points, and hand those numbers over to parents at the end of each semester to use for their record-keeping and to help them award a grade."

Credit -- this program is too light to be worth 1 full credit

 

I agree; I won't give more than 1/2 credit

Was there something in the course description that communicated otherwise?

 

My purpose was to let the parents know that there were optional additions, essay topics I could provide for example (and recommended other materials to be read more in depth b/c we won't have time in class to go deeply enough into them), to make it a full credit course

I guess I need to reword it?

 

I do want to go over, as deeply as possible, the other works of lit and poetry, definitely; plus have them be active readers, helping train them to see things like foreshadowing, analogies, etc and repost back to the class

 

I will have 75 min, for 28-30 weeks (they haven't posted the full calendar, yet)

 

You asked previously:

How much outside-of-class work will the students *really* do, or will the parents really support by making time in their weekly homeschool schedule for your co-op class homework?

 

I don't think I can answer that 

I can hope that the parents will take it almost as seriously as I (which is very) have regarding my own children's "homework"

 

Last year my dd took a lit class, no grades or anything (not a HS course, but I thought t'd be a decent middle school one), and she was disappointed

She was disappointed because since the teacher didn't require a minimum read from week-to-week, the students had no accountability for what was required reading each week, so as a result, certain things weren't talked about (so as not to spoil for those who weren't reading up to par) and ultimately books weren't finished, either

 

Also, she didn't like the silly activities

 

My dd read all the books, plus an extra one (and one she read twice), but was not able to SHARE her thoughts about them to a group, which is what she was wanting and she was just aggravated almost the whole time

 

So, anyway, I'm relaying this as an example of what COULD happen if I don't have an organized plan and if parents and students don't have clear expectations

Edited by historymatters
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Feedback on my answers is appreciated!

 

 

I don't think there's any wrong answers to these kinds of questions, but it is important that everyone is on the same page, and you are super clear up front about what your expectations are, and the consequences of not meeting expectations.

 

And speaking of being on the same page, it might be helpful for you to recommend some particular edition of the books for those who don't already own a copy -- just so if someone needs to call out a particular page in class, it is easier for everyone to find.

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...I won't give more than 1/2 credit

...My purpose was to let the parents know that there were optional additions, essay topics I could provide for example (and recommended other materials to be read more in depth b/c we won't have time in class to go deeply enough into them), to make it a full credit course

I guess I need to reword it?

 

I'm finding that "less is more" in explaining class policies. ;) Just me, but I'd keep it super simple and straightforward and just state that parents can count the hours/work for this class as 1/3 credit or 1/2 credit or whatever you decide is reasonable. And that if they need it, you can provide a list of resources for filling out the credit.

 

While I personally enjoy and do well at creating DIY credits and partial credits, a lot of families might find that too intimidating to be handed a list of additional works to read and have to figure out how to go in depth with it. So, just what I would probably do: for those parents who want more info on how to fill out the co-op class to a complete credit, I'd give them a list of open-and-go programs that are worth 1/2 credit. That way, the family can choose the type of program they most want/need, and they can spread out a 0.5 credit/1 semester course over the year and do at home to flesh out the LLftLotR co-op class. This has the tremendous benefit of lifting burden off of you to come up with resources to help them flesh out go-along literature for LLftLotR ;).

 

Open and Go Program Ideas

- Composition: One Year Adventure Novel -- program for students who enjoy creative writing

- Composition: Elegant Essay -- 1 semester (0.5 credit); descriptive & persuasive essay writing

- Composition: Brave Writer Help For High School -- 1 semester (0.5 credit); academic writing formats

- Composition: Writing Research Papers -- 1 semester (0.5 credit); the research paper & citations

- Lit. & Comp.: Windows to the World -- 1 semester (0.5 credit) program on literary analysis, focusing on 6 short stories

- Lightning Literature -- 1 semester (0.5 credit) programs of Literature with writing assignments:

*American Lit: Early to Mid 19th century; Mid to Late 19th Century; American Christian authors

*British Lit: Medieval; Early to Mid 19th century; Mid to Late 19th Century; British Christian authors

*Shakespeare: Tragedies & Sonnets; Comedies & Sonnets

*World Lit: Africa & Asia; Latin America & Africa & Asia

 

 

I worked in customer service for 11 years, owning my own hairstylist's station, running my own bookings, etc, so hopefully that training of dealing with people (including lots of parents) will come in handy

 

:laugh:  That will definitely help! :)

 

 

My children and I (both 15) do this type of analyzation naturally, just as a part of living; they think I can do the class (my son, who is an encyclopedia on LOTR mythology and verbal, will be there in class, too, which actually gives me reassurance)

 

Yes, analyzing Lit. was pretty natural at our home, too. That was one of the things that took me by surprise in doing the co-op classes was how many of the students were either at a very beginning level, or were STEM-based / black & white thinkers and these skills were either new to them or not at all natural to them, so they needed a LOT of very guided questions and hand-holding. I also had to find ways to allow the Lit.-lovers and those who were experienced with literary analysis to share their thoughts, but not let that dominate the discussion. ;)

 

 

You asked previously: "How much outside-of-class work will the students *really* do, or will the parents really support by making time in their weekly homeschool schedule for your co-op class homework?"

I don't think I can answer that 

I can hope that the parents will take it almost as seriously as I (which is very) have regarding my own children's "homework"...

 

What I was originally trying to get at with this question was to help you determine whether or not homework and writing assignments would be supported by the parents for you doing grading and counting the class for credit. BUT... since you're not going to be assigning homework and writing, this is now a "moot point" ;) -- which is a really a relief and going to make your life as class leader a LOT easier. Yea! :)

 

 

...I do want to go over, as deeply as possible, the other works of lit and poetry, definitely; plus have them be active readers, helping train them to see things like foreshadowing, analogies, etc and repost back to the class

 

I will have 75 min, for 28-30 weeks...

 

In case it helps:

My experience with a 90-minute class (15-30 min/week focused on Composition), that met 16x/semester: We were able to squeeze all of the LotR trilogy into a total of 24 weeks. That averaged out to weekly reading at home of about 70 pages / 2-3 chapters to discuss per class. There was SO much to cover in the way of literary elements, literature topics, and discussion, I don't think we could have shortened it up any tighter than that. (Although, I was going a lot deeper than LLftLotR, so you might be able to go at a brisker paceĂ¢â‚¬Â¦)

 

If a similar schedule works for you, that will give you 12 classes per semester for LLftLotR, and 2 or 3 classes each semester to fully focus on poetry or another work of literature.

 

What I have learned from trying to cover other works of Literature in addition to LotR: plan on at least 2 complete class periods to cover a shorter work such as Beowulf or Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. You need at least 3 weeks to cover a Shakespeare play. And if you plan on covering one of the ancient Greek epics, you'll probably need at least 4 weeks. And don't expect to be able to cover any of LotR in those same classes. Tried that with the poetry, and it just doesn't work -- too much material trying to be jammed into too short of a time period.

 

One last thought on poetry -- while the one LLftLotR unit is well done on describing the different poetic meters and "feet" (syllables and stresses), JMO but that is a terrible way to start students off with trying to read, appreciate or analyze poetry. While understanding meter is important later on in studying poetry, a beginner at poetry uses that tool like a hammer to smash the poem into a mathematical equation of meter, and TOTALLY misses what poetry is all about!  :eek:  I'm still in process of evolving how poetry needs to look in my Lit. classes, but I really want to move much more towards looking at sound, image, and metaphor. Something like Tanya Runyan's How to Read A Poem, or CAP's Art of PoetryĂ¢â‚¬Â¦ :)

 

 

Again, BEST of luck as you plan the class that will best work for YOUR students! Hope you have a super year! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Edited by Lori D.
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One last thought on poetry -- while the one LLftLotR unit is well done on describing the different poetic meters and "feet" (syllables and stresses), JMO but that is a terrible way to start students off with trying to read, appreciate or analyze poetry. 

 

I agree! I looked through the poetry and my head about exploded! 

 

I have Roar on the Other Side, so I think I will read through that instead

 

Again, BEST of luck as you plan the class that will best work for YOUR students! Hope you have a super year!

 

Thanks so much! You have been most gracious with your time and given me much to use and think about!

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