Most Useful Standardized Tests?

[Chrysalis Academy]

I'm looking for a basic standardized test for my 4th and 8th graders to assess progress.  What test have you found most useful or helpful?

 

I'm looking at Seton Testing Services. It looks like the Stanford 10 is my only online option. Has anyone used that?  Is there any reason to do a different paper and pencil test?

 

ETA: Or should I be looking at a different provider? I do prefer an online test.  The only other one I know about is Let's Go Learn ADAM/DORA - have people used that and found it helpful?

 

I'm not required by my state to do this. It is for my own edification.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Chrysalis Academy

[maize]

When I tested just for my own information I used the Stanford paper version; I imagine online is similar and has the advantage of instant feedback.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Online Stanford 10 is untimed and shows one question per screen. This is nice for kids who are easily overwhelmed.

[JoJosMom]

We've used that, Rose, mostly because it was the test used by the school DD attended when she was small and the one she attended briefly here after we moved, and I wanted continuity.  The test was able to point out to me some gaps that were developing when she was at the school here, so I could work on those areas when she came back home. 

 

I know that your girls are very bright; have you tested them before?  The reason why I ask is that, the second year I tested after she came home, I elected to test her 1 grade above her level.  DD is also bright and tests well.  Since I use the tests to highlight gaps, I wanted to introduce a higher error rate.  Just something to think about.  :001_smile:   (We switched this year to the PSAT, so I didn't use the SAT this year.)

[Chrysalis Academy]

I haven't tested them before. They are bright, I think they are doing fine, and my older dd is clearly ready for high school level work, so I know that what I've done with her has worked. I've really not worried about whether they are "on track" with their p.s. peers before. I know where I want them to get to, and I know what I need to do to get them there.  Our path has been different, but effective.

 

What is forcing me to look at grade level standards is my dd9's expressed desire to return to p.s.  It has made me look at where she is at for each subject in comparison to other 4th graders. Because of a different philosophy and scope & sequence, it doesn't always match up. She's on grade level with math, with (I think) a deeper conceptual understanding about what she's doing. I'm not worried there.  But she's definitely "behind" in spelling - we follow a rule-based spelling program, and we work on it every day, but she can't spell most of the words on the 4th grade CC lists.  Same with writing - we're following SWB's philosophy, broadly, about elementary writing, and I've seen that pay off in spade with my older dd, who is an excellent writer.  But there is no way dd9 is writing as much volume/content as her ps peers. I'm not asking her to write opinion essays or book reports.  I think her level of reading and oral analysis is superior, and her writing is right where I want it to be for 4th grade for my own scope & sequence, but it's definitely not up to ps/cc 4th grade "standards"

 

We haven't decided whether to let her go to ps next year. The more I think about it the more I think it's a bad idea. But the reality is that if she is going to go, she will need to be operating at ps standards, and she has some work to do to get there in writing and spelling.  I thought a standardized test might elucidate other issues - where she is above or below the normed standard for her grade  level.  Blech, I can't even believe I'm having to think about this, it's just not the way I've operated up to this point, and I'm kind of hating it.

[maize]

 We have done the online ADAM/DORA; I think I prefer the Stanford.

[rocassie]

My DD used the Standford 10 from Seton Testing Services and I was very happy with it.  This was DD's first time taking a standardized test so I don't have experience with anything else.  It's untimed and covers science and social studies as well as math and language arts.  DD was able to mark questions to answer later or review her answers as well as pause a test (which we did only at lunch.)

[Arcadia]

The 4th grade Stanford 10 online won't tell you anything about spelling or writing. If you want to go with Stanford 10 for your 4th grader, I would go for the 5th grade test to lower the chance of hitting the maximum scores on most of the subtests. My oldest did the 4th grade Stanford 10 two years ago.

 

For your 8th grader, going for the ACT would be more useful because she likely hit the ceiling for the Stanford 10 online tests for 8th grade. Besides the ACT cost a little more than Stanford 10, and the ACT would assign a test site if your three choices are full. You do have to sacrifice a Saturday morning for testing.

[Roadrunner]

I haven't tested them before. They are bright, I think they are doing fine, and my older dd is clearly ready for high school level work, so I know that what I've done with her has worked. I've really not worried about whether they are "on track" with their p.s. peers before. I know where I want them to get to, and I know what I need to do to get them there.  Our path has been different, but effective.

 

What is forcing me to look at grade level standards is my dd9's expressed desire to return to p.s.  It has made me look at where she is at for each subject in comparison to other 4th graders. Because of a different philosophy and scope & sequence, it doesn't always match up. She's on grade level with math, with (I think) a deeper conceptual understanding about what she's doing. I'm not worried there.  But she's definitely "behind" in spelling - we follow a rule-based spelling program, and we work on it every day, but she can't spell most of the words on the 4th grade CC lists.  Same with writing - we're following SWB's philosophy, broadly, about elementary writing, and I've seen that pay off in spade with my older dd, who is an excellent writer.  But there is no way dd9 is writing as much volume/content as her ps peers. I'm not asking her to write opinion essays or book reports.  I think her level of reading and oral analysis is superior, and her writing is right where I want it to be for 4th grade for my own scope & sequence, but it's definitely not up to ps/cc 4th grade "standards"

 

We haven't decided whether to let her go to ps next year. The more I think about it the more I think it's a bad idea. But the reality is that if she is going to go, she will need to be operating at ps standards, and she has some work to do to get there in writing and spelling.  I thought a standardized test might elucidate other issues - where she is above or below the normed standard for her grade  level.  Blech, I can't even believe I'm having to think about this, it's just not the way I've operated up to this point, and I'm kind of hating it.

 

I can't speak to the different tests, but I want to address your comment on 4th grade writing. We are in tone of he top districts and all they work on in 4th grade is a paragraph writing. Every day kids were expected to write one paragraph (topic sentence plus several more supporting ones) about something they learned that day in school, either about a book they read or a science topic. That's it. 

[Chrysalis Academy]

I can't speak to the different tests, but I want to address your comment on 4th grade writing. We are in tone of he top districts and all they work on in 4th grade is a paragraph writing. Every day kids were expected to write one paragraph (topic sentence plus several more supporting ones) about something they learned that day in school, either about a book they read or a science topic. That's it. 

 

That's good to know. I'm not sure what is going on here, but I know lots of paragraph writing is. Looking at the CC standards, though, I see that it calls for persuasive, narrative, descriptive, informational, and instructional writing, and it looks like they are looking for multi-paragraph essays with intros, conclusions, and supporting points.

 

I'm not saying those are bad things. Just not what I've been requiring from my 4th grader.  She does summaries, dictation, cursive copywork, and short paragraphs about science topics. I haven't asked her for persuasive writing or taught her to write multi-paragraph reports with introductions and conclusions yet. I'm not saying she couldn't do it, but I don't know that it's developmentally appropriate for where she's at right now. She has plenty of time to master that over the next two years . . . if she keeps homeschooling. I don't really want to cram that all into the next two months.

[cintinative]

I had recently asked about this.  Here are some threads:

 

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/597324-online-testing-specifically-stanford-10/

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/593661-taking-itbsstanford-etc-online-your-experience-please/

 

My takeaways: the Stanford 10 is going to be phased out. The time frame is unknown on that. It's something to keep in mind.

 

If you want them to have practice filling bubbles, online testing will not help you, but you can certainly switch between online and paper tests for practice.

 

The Stanford is untimed which I was happy about because I have one that gets anxious with timers. I think we are doing IOWA on paper.  My friend's advice to me was: don't tell them it is timed.  =)  I am not planning to submit scores so that works.  

 

I have heard good things about the data coming out of the DORA and ADAM tests in terms of identifying problem areas if testing is not required and this is more for your benefit. They don't include science/social studies so in terms of possible school placement I am not sure they are a good fit. 

 

FYI--sometimes Seton gives out discount codes at HS conventions. They will be at GHC Midwest this weekend if you know someone who is going.  =)

Edited March 31, 2016 by cintinative

[Roadrunner]

Fifth grade is when they are writing "essays" with intros and multiple paragraphs and I know in our district there is a lot of hand holding. They are basically writing it one paragraph at a time, teaching the kids that all that essay requires is stacking those paragraphs they have been writing over and over again in 4th grade, on top of each other. Teachers are helping A LOT. Standards make it all sound lot more impressive than it actually is. If you decide to send your DD to school, she will be more than adequately prepared.

[JoJosMom]

I haven't tested them before. They are bright, I think they are doing fine, and my older dd is clearly ready for high school level work, so I know that what I've done with her has worked. I've really not worried about whether they are "on track" with their p.s. peers before. I know where I want them to get to, and I know what I need to do to get them there.  Our path has been different, but effective.

 

What is forcing me to look at grade level standards is my dd9's expressed desire to return to p.s.  It has made me look at where she is at for each subject in comparison to other 4th graders. Because of a different philosophy and scope & sequence, it doesn't always match up. She's on grade level with math, with (I think) a deeper conceptual understanding about what she's doing. I'm not worried there.  But she's definitely "behind" in spelling - we follow a rule-based spelling program, and we work on it every day, but she can't spell most of the words on the 4th grade CC lists.  Same with writing - we're following SWB's philosophy, broadly, about elementary writing, and I've seen that pay off in spade with my older dd, who is an excellent writer.  But there is no way dd9 is writing as much volume/content as her ps peers. I'm not asking her to write opinion essays or book reports.  I think her level of reading and oral analysis is superior, and her writing is right where I want it to be for 4th grade for my own scope & sequence, but it's definitely not up to ps/cc 4th grade "standards"

 

We haven't decided whether to let her go to ps next year. The more I think about it the more I think it's a bad idea. But the reality is that if she is going to go, she will need to be operating at ps standards, and she has some work to do to get there in writing and spelling.  I thought a standardized test might elucidate other issues - where she is above or below the normed standard for her grade  level.  Blech, I can't even believe I'm having to think about this, it's just not the way I've operated up to this point, and I'm kind of hating it.

 

I liked it in sympathy.  :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

FWIW, we went through this.  We just survived 6/7th with the promise of outside high school  ( no way in h-e-double hockey sticks was she going to the middle school.)  Lo and behold, we both grew and she wants to stay home now. 

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, Rose.

 

 

[JumpyTheFrog]

I read a few days ago that the decision to end the online Stanford 10 test has been been put on hold indefinitely.

 

We have used Brewer Testing twice and have been happy with them.

[Kathleen.]

No need to worry about teaching her that long list above. None of that is covered in school. My 9yo only does a paragraph for LA class and she gets a rubric that clearly states what should be in each sentence. It's up to the student to go beyond the requirements. There is no copywork, dictation or narration. Cursive is taught separately and not required to be used in other writing. She does do a lot of presentations for book reports in LA and in science. They do have to learn the five paragraph essay in grade 5. If you do send her back know that schools are very very STEM oriented and LA class does emphasize reading informational text which is a lot of nonfiction. They don't do anything at all in the least like the writing in TWTM so your daughter might actually be ahead.

 

My daughter's school is not public in case it's different for other schools. If you want her to stay home maybe give her some say in what she's learning. Maybe try some Brave Writer ideas with her. It sounds like she might be unenthusiastic if the work is overwhelming or feeling like she has to keep up with her big sister.

If she thinks going to school will be easier tell her it's a lot of endless homework...and tests.

 

Also, their school does the Stanford 10 and uses it to determine enrichment or remediation. One thing I noticed from what my kids told me is there's always a section not taught that is on the test. For example, for fourth grade - word roots and adding with decimals. Neither are complicated, but just not covered before the test typically taken in March or April.

 

Good luck :)

Edited March 31, 2016 by Kathleen.

[Roadrunner]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, Rose.

 

 

Me too! I hope she changes her mind. One year at a time. Edited March 31, 2016 by Roadrunner

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ok, thanks for the feedback on writing, guys.  She can definitely write paragraphs on a variety of topics, and most of her writing is about nonfiction reading topics. So sounds like we're not too far off the mark there.   I do appreciate the feedback. This whole thing has thrown me for a loop this week. 

Edited March 31, 2016 by Chrysalis Academy

[G5052]

FWIW -- I live in a state where I submit test results every year (one option), and I have to say in 12+ of testing I've never received any information from it that I didn't already know. If I lived elsewhere, I probably still would test every few years as a sanity check, and so they get used to doing that when college testing comes. Most years though I probably would have skipped it. It was an extra expense and required the time to do it.

 

We've used the CAT-E from Seton, the PASS from Hewitt, the Stanford from BJUP, and thankfully now can submit SAT scores to the county as fulfillment of that requirement. Even with their SAT scores, I estimated within 20 points of what they actually got for each section, but of course we need them for college.

 

I'll also note that local dual enrollment requires standardized test scores, SAT/ACT, or that you take the college placement exams. So mine take the SAT starting in 10th grade to kill multiple birds with one stone and get them used to going to the high school for that kind of testing.

[Kuovonne]

Some questions ...

 

How soon do you need the test results?

Are you hoping that test results would affect her placement in a traditional school?

Are you looking for gaps in the traditional scope and sequence?

Would being timed stress her out?

How much time (in terms of hours and days) can you set aside for testing?

Do you want her to have practice taking a bubble test?

Do you want her to learn test-taking skills, such as scanning the

entire test, skipping hard questions and going back to them later?

 

Since you have not tested either kid before, I would not test them above grade level.

 

I personally use the Iowa test, which is timed and has a bubble sheet.

I would recommend it for your 8th grader, versus an online or untimed test,

mostly for the test taking experience. She will be taking high-stakes tests

soon, and having a low-pressure testing experience first will be good.

 

You can test both your 4th and 8th grader with the Iowa at the same time in your home.

This can be helpful if you're not sure what you'd do with one child while the other tests.

 

However, the Iowa may take weeks to months between ordering and getting results.

 

I have used the DORA/ADAM test many years ago. I found it useful for early

elementary when kids can be all over the board. These tests are adaptive, so

you won't immediately reach a ceiling on one sub-test, and then be challenged

to tears on the next sub-test. It does give you a grade

equivalency, but it is not nationally normed, and I didn't find the results as

useful for comparing with a peer group. It is also not as well known, so if you

want to use the results when talking with schools, it will not be as useful.

[Kuovonne]

Re: spelling and writing for a 4th grader wanting to go to traditional school

 

I wouldn't worry about spelling test results. Kids' spelling abilities vary wildly

within a grade level. Plus, the methods of teaching spelling in traditional schools

isn't nearly as effective as one-on-one spelling lessons adapted for your kid.

If my 4th grader goes to school anytime soon, I will definately be afterschooling spelling.

 

For writing, I am currently having my 4th grader write a composition a day.

Somehow, I can't find that thread. Maybe it was deleted?

You have some wonderful comments on that thread.

Anyway, I found it very helpful for quickly getting her used to writing

a variety of different types of writing (narrative, descriptive, expository, and persuasive).

She can bang out fairly decent paragraphs now, with opening hooks,

topic sentences, supporting sentences, and concludings sentence.

I won't use this method long term, but it has been right for our family for now.

 

You say that your daughter writes mostly non-fiction. You should consider

having her write the occassional story / narrative. If she goes to school,

she will probably have to do that type of writing.