I wasn't going to talk politics any more, but...

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Yeah, but the rest of you would just keep talking ;-)

 

We keep laughing because ... we just moved. We are registered to vote in our new state. And John McCain has sent me THREE letters urging me to absentee vote in our old state :lol:

 

Hmm. Was it a letter like this?

 

Do you hate me for posting this? I'm just really curious if it looked like this. But I'll understand if you don't speak to me ever again. :leaving:

[lovemyboys]

I think perhaps that y'all may have missed my point, but I'll just go flog something to get out my pent-up frustration. :001_smile:

 

But you'll get no argument from me on Paulson whatsoever, Pam. No oversight AND immunity from any consequent litigation. Nice try, big guy.

 

No, I did get you -- putting the fox in the henhouse.

 

But he's got a storied past in many ways.

[Demal]

3) I have been reading about the CRA and I haven't seen anywhere that banks were forced to extend risky credit.

 

Exactly. Testimony on the CRA before the House Financial Services Committee:

 

Despite the fact that CRA appears to have increased bank and thrift lending in low- and moderate-income communities, such institutions are not the only ones operating in these areas. In fact, with new and lower-cost sources of funding available from the secondary market through securitization, and with advances in financial technology, subprime lending exploded in the late 1990s, reaching over $600 billion and 20% of all originations by 2005. More than half of subprime loans were made by independent mortgage companies not subject to comprehensive federal supervision; another 30 percent of such originations were made by affiliates of banks or thrifts, which are not subject to routine examination or supervision, and the remaining 20 percent were made by banks and thrifts. Although reasonable people can disagree about how to interpret the evidence, my own judgment is that the worst and most widespread abuses occurred in the institutions with the least federal oversight.

 

The housing crisis we face today, driven by serious problems in the subprime lending, suggests that our system of home mortgage regulation, including CRA, is seriously deficient. We need to fill what my friend, the late Federal Reserve Board Governor Ned Gramlich aptly termed, "the giant hole in the supervisory safety net."11 Banks and thrifts are subject to comprehensive federal regulation and supervision; their affiliates far less so; and independent mortgage companies, not at all. Moreover, many market-based systems designed to ensure sound practices in this sector—broker reputational risk, lender oversight of brokers, investor oversight of lenders, rating agency oversight of securitizations, and so on—simply did not work. Conflicts of interest, lax regulation, and "boom times" covered up the extent of the abuses—at least for a while, at least for those not directly affected by abusive practices. But no more.

 

 

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/barr021308.pdf

(bolding mine)

 

Missing from this video is the enactment of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 which rolled back Glass-Steagall and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act in 2000 (also co-sponsored by Gramm*, now an advisor to McCain) which excluded derivatives (including credit default swaps) from regulation. Congress was controlled by Republicans in both years. But, many Democrats did vote for these bills. Obviously, I believe that lack of oversight and regulation have contributed greatly to this crisis.

 

I just don't see how this can be pinned on low-income borrowers. http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2008/07/28/daily54.html?jst=b_ln_hl

 

Of the 1.9 million subprime rate loans in 2006 [the high-water mark for subprime lending], upper-income borrowers had the highest share at 39.37 percent, followed by 27.55 percent for middle-income borrowers and 20.99 percent for moderate-income borrowers.

 

Low-income borrowers had only 149,173, or 7.57 percent, of 2006 subprime rate loans.

 

 

 

*I mention this because a good portion of the video talked about Johnson and Raines. And what about Rick Davis?

Edited September 29, 2008 by Demal

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Missing from this video is the enactment of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 which rolled back Glass-Steagall and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act in 2000 (also co-sponsored by Gramm, now an advisor to McCain) which excluded derivatives (including credit default swaps) from regulation. Congress was controlled by Republicans in both years. But, many Democrats did vote for these bills. Obviously, I believe that lack of oversight and regulation have contributed greatly to this crisis.

 

 

Here's Gramm-Leach-Bliley, but I don't know anything about Commodity Futures.

[Slartibartfast]

Hmm. Was it a letter like this?

 

Do you hate me for posting this? I'm just really curious if it looked like this. But I'll understand if you don't speak to me ever again. :leaving:

 

 

I found the name of that link to be extremely amusing. :lol:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I found the name of that link to be extremely amusing. :lol:

 

I did not even notice. Thank you. :insert little rowboat emoticon I can't find here:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

But you see, most things I see on Kos, in my opinion, come with the snark and vituperation. That, to me, does not make it worth the "well-cited" part.

 

No, I don't read Ann Coulter, either, and for the same reason. Snark-filled political discourse serves no one, and it just really chaps my hide. Nor do I ever go to Democratic Underground, or Free Republic.

 

If the relevant material at Kos is that well cited, then I will more than likely find that same information through my own internet searches.

 

I like the convenience of the consolidation. :001_smile:

[CAMom]

You can if you have absentee voting in your state. My husband and I have already voted. :tongue_smilie:

 

Really? I saw that some people had already voted. I found myself thinking..."What if something 'big' that would change my mind about my candidate is revealed during the remainder of the campaign?"

 

I know that can happen after Nov. 4th, too, but it just seemed a more likely possibilty before when they are digging for anything they can expose about one another.

[Mama Lynx]

Hmm. Was it a letter like this?

 

Do you hate me for posting this? I'm just really curious if it looked like this. But I'll understand if you don't speak to me ever again. :leaving:

 

Awww, I don't hate you :D

 

They didn't look like that. But- yes, the state was Michigan! I wish I'd saved one. I just figured that most people don't necessarily register to vote right away when they move, that his team hadn't reconciled voting records to know that I'd re-registered, and wanted to make sure they didn't miss out on a potential vote in a contested state. If I had filled out the paperwork and sent it in, I would have been guilty of voter fraud - but I'm smart enough to figure that out. I had no idea that his sending these out were causing problems. I just thought it was kind of funny that he was so concerned :lol: Heck, I could have voted for him three times, already! :lol:

 

It never occurred to me that these might be causing problems. That's certainly interesting.

[Mrs Mungo]

Really? I saw that some people had already voted. I found myself thinking..."What if something 'big' that would change my mind about my candidate is revealed during the remainder of the campaign?"

 

I know that can happen after Nov. 4th, too, but it just seemed a more likely possibilty before when they are digging for anything they can expose about one another.

 

I cannot see any probable circumstances* (see reason for editing) in which *enough* could change in the next month for my vote to swing. I'm not a swing voter. I could understand swing voters holding off a bit.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Mrs Mungo
eta the word probable because I could see many fictional scenarios.

[CAMom]

I cannot see any probable circumstances in which *enough* could change in the next month for my vote to swing. I'm not a swing voter. I could understand swing voters holding off a bit.

 

Makes sense.:)

[hsmamainva]

I'm not the economics "expert" in our family -- that would be my hubby. So I saved the videolink and I'll show it to him in the morning and get his input.

 

I still say that deregulation had alot to do with it...because that's why they were allowed to change the borrowing rules.

 

And I blame the lending companies. They had to know these folks were biting off more than they could chew -- BUT -- so did the borrowers. There was an article in the Washington Post about a mortgage broker who gave a $500,000 mortgage to someone making $35,000 a year, working at McDonald's.

 

Should he have made the loan? NO

 

But...shouldn't the McDonald's employee be wise enough to know, "I can't afford a $500,000 house"? YES

 

I also agree with one of the earlier posters that I don't trust anything that flashes facts faster than I could keep up with.

 

So I'm going to do some research and then get back to you.

 

I do have one more thing to add.... Ann Coulter --- :willy_nilly:

[Laura in VA]

I cannot see any probable circumstances* (see reason for editing) in which *enough* could change in the next month for my vote to swing. I'm not a swing voter. I could understand swing voters holding off a bit.

 

I thought your probable circumstances comment was going to be h*ll freezing over. :)

[Mrs Mungo]

I thought your probable circumstances comment was going to be h*ll freezing over. :)

 

I was thinking more along the lines of demon possession or eating babies during the debate but I decided to be more vague. ;)

[Laura in VA]

I was thinking more along the lines of demon possession or eating babies during the debate but I decided to be more vague. ;)

 

:smilielol5: I just about choked on my yogurt. You're hilarious.

[Laura in VA]

I was thinking more along the lines of demon possession or eating babies during the debate but I decided to be more vague. ;)

 

Does this mean I can tag this thread as "demon possession" and "eating babies"?

[Mrs Mungo]

Does this mean I can tag this thread as "demon possession" and "eating babies"?

 

:lol:

[hsmamainva]

I was thinking more along the lines of demon possession or eating babies during the debate but I decided to be more vague. ;)

 

:snort:

 

:lol:

[Slartibartfast]

I was thinking more along the lines of demon possession or eating babies during the debate but I decided to be more vague. ;)

 

I am trying to imagine this scenario.

 

"Millions of people voted for Obama even though he ate a baby and changed his name to Azog!!"

 

"It's called Demoncrat for a reason Billy!"

Edited September 29, 2008 by Sis

[hsmamainva]

I am trying to imagine this scenario.

 

"Millions of people voted for Obama even though he ate a baby and changed his name to Azog!!"

 

"It's called Demoncrat for a reason Billy!"

 

:lol:

 

I can see the National Enquirer headline now!! And, before you know it, it'll be stated as 'fact' all over the country!

[Mrs Mungo]

I am trying to imagine this scenario.

 

"Millions of people voted for Obama even though he ate a baby and changed his name to Azog!!"

 

"It's called Demoncrat for a reason Billy!"

 

See and then I'd be all "People! I had already voted! SORRY!!! SHEESH!"

[Bev in B'ville]

I wish I could rep you.

 

 

me, too.

 

That's all.

[homeschool2boys]

I was not sure if I should post this or not but I would be leary of that web site Fact Check. There is something fishy about them take a look at this stuff that I found on the web today.

 

It says on their own site that they are funded by the Annenberg Foundation. Check here http://www.factcheck.org/about/ I am not trying to smear them it actually says this on their site, thats where they get their funding.

Google up the Annenberg Foundation. This is what I found. http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/26/newly-released-documents-highlight-obamas-relationship-with-ayers/

It seems the rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper. I dont think I know who to trust anymore.

[Bev in B'ville]

I was not sure if I should post this or not but I would be leary of that web site Fact Check. There is something fishy about them take a look at this stuff that I found on the web today.

 

It says on their own site that they are funded by the Annenberg Foundation. Check here http://www.factcheck.org/about/ I am not trying to smear them it actually says this on their site, thats where they get their funding.

 

Google up the Annenberg Foundation. This is what I found. http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/26/newly-released-documents-highlight-obamas-relationship-with-ayers/

 

It seems the rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper. I dont think I know who to trust anymore.

 

 

 

The Center for Responsive Politics is suppose to be non-partisan and I have yet to see them support blatantly biased materials for one candidate over another.

 

HTH.

[Jean too]

Great job on those sources, Jean! Let's just go with the NYT piece alone, which I think most people would agree is from a reputable source and certainly not a particularly conservative one. I think this is my favorite quote, dated 2003:

 

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

 

:eek:

 

How in the name of all that is holy is this very man at the forefront of the bailout?!

 

For another jaw dropping quote, this time by Senator Chuck Schumer, listen to the audio I linked to in my OP.

[PrairieAir]

Wow, I've never started a thread and gotten so many responses. Thank you all for taking the time to reply and add links.

 

This is a lot to think about, especially now that I know the bit about Obama's demon possession and eating of babies. He looked like such a nice guy!

 

I think most of us would agree that what this all boils down to is greed. And stupidity. And more greed. On all sides, from the Republicans to the Democrats, from the mega banks to the McDonald's employee, from the redwood forest to the gulf stream waters. Ugh.

[Slartibartfast]

I was not sure if I should post this or not but I would be leary of that web site Fact Check. There is something fishy about them take a look at this stuff that I found on the web today.

 

It says on their own site that they are funded by the Annenberg Foundation. Check here http://www.factcheck.org/about/ I am not trying to smear them it actually says this on their site, thats where they get their funding.

 

Google up the Annenberg Foundation. This is what I found. http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/26/newly-released-documents-highlight-obamas-relationship-with-ayers/

 

It seems the rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper. I dont think I know who to trust anymore.

 

 

 

That just says he was on the "Chicago Annenberg Challenge" board. That doesn't mean he has anything to do with factcheck.org

 

Read your own article

 

The group filed a document with the Federal Election Commission last week identifying Texas billionaire Harold Simmons as the lone financier of the ad, contributing nearly $2.9 million to produce and air it. Simmons is a fundraiser for John McCain and was one of the major contributors to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which aired ads in 2004 against John Kerry.

Now...everyone now knows the Swiftboat guys weren't exactly being honest. (PANTS ON FIRE!!!) It has even become a term for a smear campaign. Edited September 29, 2008 by Sis

[pqr]

I hope I'm discerning Sen. Obama's character correctly, though.

 

I have always used several criteria when judging a man's character. One of them is those with whom he associates, those who he calls his mentors, those who he allows close to his family.

 

Reverend Wright anyone??

[hornblower]

I have always used several criteria when judging a man's character. One of them is those with whom he associates, those who he calls his mentors, those who he allows close to his family.

 

Reverend Wright anyone??

 

I'll see your Reverend Wright & raise you Pastor Ed Kalnins :D

[pqr]

Hornblower, I am afraid I see no comparison. Please show hwere Palin called Kalnins her "mentor" and then show quotes such as the below.

 

Remember Wright was Obama's mentor, friend of 20 years and spewed the hate listed below.

 

The government gives them (Black Americans) the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God da*n America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people. God da*n America for treating our citizens as less than human. God da*n America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

 

"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost"

 

"We started the AIDS virus. … We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty..."

 

"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied."

 

"We cannot see how what we are doing is the same thing al-Qaida is doing under a different color flag ... And guess what else. If they don’t find them some weapons of mass destruction, they going to do just like the LAPD and plant them some weapons of mass destruction."

Edited September 29, 2008 by pqr

[Slartibartfast]

I have always used several criteria when judging a man's character. One of them is those with whom he associates, those who he calls his mentors, those who he allows close to his family.

 

Reverend Wright anyone??

 

Keating.:tongue_smilie:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I'll see your Reverend Wright & raise you Pastor Ed Kalnins :D

 

Pastor Muthee, anyone?

 

Look, many MANY people go to church and hear things that, especially if taken out of context of an entire world view and lens of culture, are amazing and radical and even perhaps subversive. I heard All My Life that God would... I can't say it, so I'll go all Dilbert on you... darn America to heck for her sins. It was coming. Not what, but when. Unless, of course, the nation was saved by a specific kind of revival. Jerry Fallwell was LIBERAL and not recommended generally for new Christians in particular to follow in practice, though it was acknowledged that his theology was generally sound.

 

But I have to say that I am not alone in this. Maybe you don't want me for Vice President (hahahahaha!), but although I had specific notions of right and wrong, I was never an intolerant idiot because of what my spiritual leaders taught. And neither were most people I knew. They would have loved a theocracy, of course, and looked forward to one in the Kingdom, but all acknowledged that it would not happen in this go round and that American ideals of at least the basic freedoms were a lovely thing. A thing to fight for, to die for, to serve for, to strive for. We may have had a different road in our striving than the moderates or liberals, but we wanted them and cherished them.

 

Yes, there's the whole thing about politicizing premillennial eschatology, and there are "dangers" I suppose about the more radical among us who either love power above all things or are the puppets of those who do. :glare: But Kennedy faced the same reaction for how radical and dangerous Catholicism was, and somehow, the US did not become immediately beholden to the Vatican.

 

Those of you who believe God uses the foolishness of preaching and the pure Word of God to draw those whom he will to him, and that he can use an ignorant ranter or a misguided fool to draw a man to Himself whenever he will, however he will, to accomplish his purpose on this Earth -- well, it frankly surprises me that you are not just rejoicing that Barak Obama found Christ and was born into His family, no matter how it happened. I do not get it.

 

Do you really think the man who thinks this is some radical, wild-eyed lunatic bent on stickin' it to whitey? Have you seen a rant of his in some video somewhere that I'm missing? I see a self-controlled man whose mama and gramma raised him right. I see a man who clearly adores the wife of his youth, whose traditional family and decent, Midwestern values shine from the relaxed faces of his little girls. I see a man with a brain in his head and a work ethic in his shoes. A man whose words as nearly as can be for a Human Being match his actions.

 

I'm sorry. I try to be as careful-minded a person as possible. But I do not see the "scary" parts.

 

If you want a flawless person to run your government, buy yourself a private island somewhere and do it yourself. For me, I'll just take the people who will look straight in my eyes and to the best of their human ability, mean what they say.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Deleted by me

Edited September 29, 2008 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN

[Slartibartfast]

I have always used several criteria when judging a man's character. One of them is those with whom he associates, those who he calls his mentors, those who he allows close to his family.

 

Reverend Wright anyone??

 

Phil Gramm (wrote the ENRON loophole, was on McCain's campaign and is now "unofficial adviser")

 

Rick Davis (has received over 300K from F&F, McCain campaign manager )

 

Last I checked Rev. Wright hasn't ruined anyone's life/destroyed their future

Edited September 29, 2008 by Sis

[pqr]

Pastor Muthee, anyone?

 

 

Do you really think the man who thinks this is some radical, wild-eyed lunatic bent on stickin' it to whitey? Have you seen a rant of his in some video somewhere that I'm missing? I see a self-controlled man whose mama and gramma raised him right...Midwestern values .....

 

Obama quote

 

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists."

 

Obama quote

 

"I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of twelve or thirteen, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

 

Obama quote

 

"The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person..."

 

 

Now what were you saying about Midwestern values?

 

Obama will say whatever he deems necessary, he will play to any crowd, one need only look at the Wright issue to see this. Remember he also said "I can no more disown (Jeremiah Wright) than I can disown the black community", just before he dropped him.

[pqr]

Last I checked Rev. Wright hasn't ruined anyone's life/destroyed their future

 

Of course if any of his parishioners were infected with his hate ridden bile one might argue that their future has been destroyed.

[Slartibartfast]

Obama quote

 

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists."

 

Obama quote

 

"I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of twelve or thirteen, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

 

Obama quote

 

"The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person..."

 

 

Now what were you saying about Midwestern values?

 

Obama will say whatever he deems necessary, he will play to any crowd, one need only look at the Wright issue to see this. Remember he also said "I can no more disown (Jeremiah Wright) than I can disown the black community", just before he dropped him.

 

You should provide citations so we can see context.

 

Otherwise you get awkward quotes like

 

"I am the Deregulator."--(McCain) lobbed back at you

[Slartibartfast]

Of course if any of his parishioners were infected with his hate ridden bile one might argue that their future has been destroyed.

 

So...Hate-ridden bile=ENRON??

 

Really??

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Obama quote

 

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists."

 

Obama quote

 

"I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of twelve or thirteen, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

 

Obama quote

 

"The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person..."

 

 

Now what were you saying about Midwestern values?

 

Obama will say whatever he deems necessary, he will play to any crowd, one need only look at the Wright issue to see this. Remember he also said "I can no more disown (Jeremiah Wright) than I can disown the black community", just before he dropped him.

 

That OFFENDS you? You think that offended Gramma? You think that offends ME, a typical white woman who has been conditioned since BIRTH to think Black Men are Dangerous (or at least, in my youth, very very dirty)? The stories this typical white woman could tell.

 

Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, Pot. Sen. OBAMA says what is necessary? Oooookay.

 

Oooh, them Marxist professors and feminists. Them ferr'ners. Them Chicanos. Them *whisper* politically active black folks. What might those radical black people of the 80's WANT, anyhow? Equal pay? Equal opportunity? The horror.

 

British Empire, oh yes. Rule Britannia. I can see why you pine for the good old days.

 

Midwestern values. One wife. Community service. Honor to God and Country. You betcha.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

You should provide citations so we can see context.

 

Otherwise you get awkward quotes like

 

"I am the Deregulator."--(McCain) lobbed back at you

 

Or other awkward quotes such as, "[Today's] bill would not have been agreed to had it not been for John McCain." --Mitt Romney

 

Oh. Wait... Unfortunately that *was* in context.

[pqr]

Sis here you go: I will dig up the rest later.

 

To avoid being mistaken for a sellout,I chose my friends carefully.The more politically active black students.The foreign students.The Chicanos.The Marxist Professors and the structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets.At night,in the dorms,we discussed neocolonialism,Franz Fanon,Eurocentrism,and patriarchy.When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake,we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling constraints.We weren't indifferent or careless or insecure.- Dreams from my father page 100

 

In an interview with sports radio 610 WIP in Philly early this morning (20 Mar 2008), Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, said “the point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn’t. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn’t know, well there’s a reaction that’s in our experiences that won’t go away and can sometimes come out in the wrong way. And that’s just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it.†- i.e. (my read) he is saying that the typical white is a racist.

 

Sincerely pqr

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Sis here you go: I will dig up the rest later.

 

To avoid being mistaken for a sellout,I chose my friends carefully.The more politically active black students.The foreign students.The Chicanos.The Marxist Professors and the structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets.At night,in the dorms,we discussed neocolonialism,Franz Fanon,Eurocentrism,and patriarchy.When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake,we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling constraints.We weren't indifferent or careless or insecure.- Dreams from my father page 100

 

In an interview with sports radio 610 WIP in Philly early this morning (20 Mar 2008), Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, said “the point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn’t. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn’t know, well there’s a reaction that’s in our experiences that won’t go away and can sometimes come out in the wrong way. And that’s just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it.†- i.e. (my read) he is saying that the typical white is a racist.

 

Sincerely pqr

 

To link, you copy the URL (that's the http://whatevercomesnext.whatever) and click the little world icon above in the bar. Then you paste the URL inside, then click OK. Then you have a hyperlink.

 

Sorry. I'm not buying this in context.

 

You should have seen me in college. Dress and nylons wearing-hats on Sunday church going-Ian Paisly amen'ing-sneaky-self-righteous-computer programming-Bob Jones University attending young woman. Who turned up the sound track of Sheffey and Hale and Wilder so loud that the walls shook and the Dorm Supervisor came to the door to make me turn it down.

 

I'm not that young girl anymore. In fact, except for the Hale & Wilder CD, you'd not recognize me from my college days. (Still have crooked teeth, but.)

[pqr]

That OFFENDS you? You think that offended Gramma? You think that offends ME, a typical white woman who has been conditioned since BIRTH to think Black Men are Dangerous (or at least, in my youth, very very dirty)? The stories this typical white woman could tell.

 

 

Oooh, them Marxist professors and feminists. Them ferr'ners. Them Chicanos. Them *whisper* politically active black folks. What might those radical black people of the 80's WANT, anyhow? Equal pay? Equal opportunity? The horror.

 

 

Midwestern values. One wife. Community service. Honor to God and Country. You betcha.

 

 

Come on.... lets be fair now. Change white to black and ask yourself if McCain could ever have got away with a statement like that. Obama is saying that the "typical white woman" is a racist. Yes that offends me, that offends me greatly. I know lots of "typical white women" and they are not racists, how dare he make a comment like that! A man who thinks that the majority (because that is what "typical" indicates) of white women in this nation are racist wants to be president. Where is the outrage?

 

Marxism is a truly evil system, the 50 some million people who died in the last century in nations where Marxism held sway give ample evidence of that. Even at my most stupid I never associated with that ilk. So Marxist professors, yes .... not the type of people I want my elected reps associating with.

 

Just for fun tell me where Obama has demonstrated the value of "Honor to Country", then compare it to McCain.

[Slartibartfast]

Sis here you go: I will dig up the rest later.

 

To avoid being mistaken for a sellout,I chose my friends carefully.The more politically active black students.The foreign students.The Chicanos.The Marxist Professors and the structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets.At night,in the dorms,we discussed neocolonialism,Franz Fanon,Eurocentrism,and patriarchy.When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake,we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling constraints.We weren't indifferent or careless or insecure.- Dreams from my father page 100

 

In an interview with sports radio 610 WIP in Philly early this morning (20 Mar 2008), Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, said “the point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn’t. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn’t know, well there’s a reaction that’s in our experiences that won’t go away and can sometimes come out in the wrong way. And that’s just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it.†- i.e. (my read) he is saying that the typical white is a racist.

 

Sincerely pqr

 

 

So...that compares with ENRON how exactly?

 

You are the one who posted about friends.

 

Phil Gramm

Rick Davis

Keating

 

All "friends" of McCain.

[Slartibartfast]

Come on.... lets be fair now. Change white to black and ask yourself if McCain could ever have got away with a statement like that. Obama is saying that the "typical white woman" is a racist. Yes that offends me, that offends me greatly. I know lots of "typical white women" and they are not racists, how dare he make a comment like that! A man who thinks that the majority (because that is what "typical" indicates) of white women in this nation are racist wants to be president. Where is the outrage?

 

I am more outraged you are putting YOUR words in Obama's mouth and demanding we be outraged.

 

Obama didn't say that. You did.

 

 

 

 

Marxism is a truly evil system, the 50 some million people who died in the last century in nations where Marxism held sway give ample evidence of that. Even at my most stupid I never associated with that ilk. So Marxist professors, yes .... not the type of people I want my elected reps associating with.

*yawn*

 

You are going to have to provide a citation for someone being a Marxist. I didn't see anything in that quote about anyone hanging out with Marxist professors now.

 

You are *reaching*

 

McCarthy was awhile ago but this is a good reminder that we should always be vigilant against hysteria. Marxism is not EVIL. That's just silly.

 

 

Just for fun tell me where Obama has demonstrated the value of "Honor to Country", then compare it to McCain.

I suppose it depends on what one defines as "Honor to Country"

 

I place a LOT of value in working in low income communities and helping them improve their lives.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Sis

[Mrs Mungo]

Come on.... lets be fair now. Change white to black and ask yourself if McCain could ever have got away with a statement like that. Obama is saying that the "typical white woman" is a racist. Yes that offends me, that offends me greatly. I know lots of "typical white women" and they are not racists, how dare he make a comment like that! A man who thinks that the majority (because that is what "typical" indicates) of white women in this nation are racist wants to be president. Where is the outrage?

 

Are you suggesting the average person doesn't have engrained notions about race? Or are you suggesting racism doesn't exist at all?

 

I've seen first hand how race works against people even when it isn't supposed to.

 

Marxism is a truly evil system, the 50 some million people who died in the last century in nations where Marxism held sway give ample evidence of that. Even at my most stupid I never associated with that ilk. So Marxist professors, yes .... not the type of people I want my elected reps associating with.

 

Marxism is an idea. I could ask how many people has Catholism killed in the past? But Catholism doesn't kill people, Marxism doesn't kill people. INTOLERANCE kills people and that's EXACTLY what Obama is fighting in that quote. He's fighting even the quiet intolerance that makes some little old white ladies cross the street when there is a black man walking up the sidewalk. But there is just no value in that for you, you have to twist the words until they are something ugly.

 

Now you explain to me in what manner Obama has dishonored his country.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Come on.... lets be fair now. Change white to black and ask yourself if McCain could ever have got away with a statement like that. Obama is saying that the "typical white woman" is a racist. Yes that offends me, that offends me greatly. I know lots of "typical white women" and they are not racists, how dare he make a comment like that! A man who thinks that the majority (because that is what "typical" indicates) of white women in this nation are racist wants to be president. Where is the outrage?

 

Marxism is a truly evil system, the 50 some million people who died in the last century in nations where Marxism held sway give ample evidence of that. Even at my most stupid I never associated with that ilk. So Marxist professors, yes .... not the type of people I want my elected reps associating with.

 

Just for fun tell me where Obama has demonstrated the value of "Honor to Country", then compare it to McCain.

 

I'm a typical white woman, and I'd posit that I'm hardly a racist. Nor are most typical white women in this country. There are some atypical white women who are racists. But I can tell you how my generation and older of white women have been conditioned by many of our forebears and by the older media. (I feel stupid even posting, this, though. I'm not a black man who watches white women draw their purses closer, move over, set their faces, or lock their doors REALLY fast when I walk across the street. So I'm not even qualified to post like I "know" anything about it.)

 

Even at your most stupid... well, you're associating with a few now on this board. So your remarks might be taken as... not so nice, if you're worried about offending.

 

I guess my Paisley-loving friends when *I* was in college gives you a good reason to end this exchange with me. Not whom you want your conversation mates to have associated with, oh, in college. Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

 

I'm sorry to have sullied. (And to my IRL friends, I have a Past. You should know that, particularly if you are Catholic. I am sorry.)

 

Compare it to McCain? Nah. I'm not going to knock Sen. McCain, my beloved candidate for 2000, and compare his brave military service to Sen. Obama's grass roots community efforts and service in the state and national senate. (Sorta like A. Lincoln, another Midwesterner who did a bit of service for his country.)

 

They also serve who only stand and debate. (Apologizing a lot in this post, but sorry to Milton, too.) I didn't serve, but my dh did. But I guess I love my country and try to serve her by being a good citizen and staying informed and doing my part. You can't compare the two. His is military service, mine is civilian service. But they are both service. I hope we both serve honorably.

[pqr]

So...that compares with ENRON how exactly?

 

You are the one who posted about friends.

 

Phil Gramm

Rick Davis

Keating

 

All "friends" of McCain.

 

 

Alas there is plenty of blame to go around on that one.

 

http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2002/guest/qtr1/0216.htm

 

 

Many of the guys listed in the link are friends of Obama.

 

 

Before you say it...yes the link is a partisan one, but they do provide references, just like you asked for :-)

[pqr]

Even at your most stupid... well, you're associating with a few now on this board. So your remarks might be taken as... not so nice, if you're worried about offending.

 

.

 

If I gave offense you have my most sincere apologies, that was not the intent.

 

Perhaps the issue of Marxism strikes a sore nerve, I have spent too long overseas and seen too much of the horror that Marxism has delivered to ever have anything but absolute loathing for that particular view.

[LilyK]

Sorry. I'm not buying this in context.

 

You should have seen me in college. Dress and nylons wearing-hats on Sunday church going-Ian Paisly amen'ing-sneaky-self-righteous-computer programming-Bob Jones University attending young woman. Who turned up the sound track of Sheffey and Hale and Wilder so loud that the walls shook and the Dorm Supervisor came to the door to make me turn it down

.

 

With all due respect, Pam SFSOM, I don't think that this is the typical American college experience, therefore, not relevant to pqr's argument. I know it was the polar opposite to my college experience, and everyone else that I knew. But then, I'm from the Left Coast.

 

I am more outraged you are putting YOUR words in Obama's mouth and demanding we be outraged.

 

Obama didn't say that. You did.

 

 

Obama said that his grandmother is the typical white woman. He said that she reacts negatively to someone just because of the color of his skin. Then, Pqr said that Obama is saying that the typical white person is racist. In order for her to be misrepresenting his statement, then reacting negatively to someone based solely on skin color is not racism. Is that what you are saying. I, personally, believe that it is racism. I would hate for someone to have such a reaction to me. Therefore, I agree, Obama was saying that the typical white person (exemplified by his grandmother) is racist. I see no need for outrage. It is what Obama said, he is entitled to his opinion.