Jump to content

Menu

Recommended Posts

As I think about the election, I am trying to answer a few questions of concern to me (about both parties). I need help with one of them.

 

Mr.McCain is 72. Are any of you 72, or have parents (or grandparents) who are 72? Would you mind giving me descriptions of their health and abilities? I don't want to get into a discussion of Mrs. Palin; I think a death or illness in the White House would be traumatic regardless of who is the VP. I might be making a mountain out of a molehill... after all, I thought 30 was old until I got there ;).

 

Really, without being Repub. or Dem., talk to me about being 72!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 112
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I don't think a particular age can be generalized like that. You would have to look at individual health and family background. You could have a 96 year old man jogging a mile everyday and a 60 year old man who can hardly climb a flight of stairs without getting winded.

 

Look at McCains mom - she's 96 and she looks like she's still going strong ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At 72, all of my grandparents that I knew, bio and step, were very active, still working full time jobs as an automotive engineer, an accountant and an administrative assistant. My great grandmother was independent until she was 95. My great uncle passed away last year at the age of 112. I have a set of grandparents whom I have never met who are in their late 70s and from accounts they appear to be doing well in spite of harsh living conditions (extreme poverty, war).

 

I also have a sister-in-law that died very suddenly and unexpectedly 2 years ago at the age of 40 and at 41 my father had a massive stroke that left him brain damaged.

 

I will not be making age a consideration but then, I'm in the tank for McCain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think a particular age can be generalized like that. You would have to look at individual health and family background. You could have a 96 year old man jogging a mile everyday and a 60 year old man who can hardly climb a flight of stairs without getting winded.

 

Look at McCains mom - she's 96 and she looks like she's still going strong ;)

 

His dad, though, is not. And Sen. McCain is not a healthy woman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think a particular age can be generalized like that. You would have to look at individual health and family background. You could have a 96 year old man jogging a mile everyday and a 60 year old man who can hardly climb a flight of stairs without getting winded.

 

Look at McCains mom - she's 96 and she looks like she's still going strong ;)

 

:iagree: Some people age better than others. Paul Newman, for instance, was still racing professionally until recently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I think about the election, I am trying to answer a few questions of concern to me (about both parties). I need help with one of them.

 

Mr.McCain is 72. Are any of you 72, or have parents (or grandparents) who are 72? Would you mind giving me descriptions of their health and abilities? I don't want to get into a discussion of Mrs. Palin; I think a death or illness in the White House would be traumatic regardless of who is the VP. I might be making a mountain out of a molehill... after all, I thought 30 was old until I got there ;).

 

Really, without being Repub. or Dem., talk to me about being 72!

 

I think an active mind could be a wonderful president way into late seventies. And truly, I think Sen. McCain has an active mind.

 

However, he's had bouts of stage II melanoma, and while he was eager in the past to release his medical records, he will not release them this time.

 

So for a 72 y/o who is not forthcoming about his or her medical history -- especially having been so transparent about it before -- I'm hesitant. And this isn't about party affiliation at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, for a guy who has been as busy as he has I didn't think he was looking any worse for wear at the debate.

 

Its weird to me that people suggest that cancer survivors shouldn't run for president. Or that we can't utilize the wisdom of our older citizens in the operation of our government. It feels like slippery slope to all kinds of accepted prejudices against perceived physical shortcomings that don't affect how people do their jobs now but could maybe possibly affect future performance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My mother is 71. She is incredibly healthy and does everything "right", exercises daily, eats an excellent diet full of organic fruits and veggies, not a lot of bad foods, does yoga, you get the idea. Even with all of this she would probably become extremely exhausted after one day being president. She just has to regulate her energy more than she did as a woman in her 40s and 50s.

 

My father is almost 78. He was in fabulous health when he was 72. Since then he has had several fairly serious health issues. At 72 he probably had more energy than my mother and he was very strong. It was a total surprise when he got sick when he was 73. It wasn't anything that they could have tested for or scanned for. In fact, when diagnosing the thing he had, his doctors were always surprised by how healthy he was overall. He would have had to step down from the presidency a year into it with the particular condition that he had. Since that time, he has had several other smaller but significant health issues.

 

Both of my parents are/were about as healthy as you can get at 72. Neither of them would be energetic enough to be president. I actually hadn't thought about this with regard to McCain before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His dad, though, is not. And Sen. McCain is not a healthy woman.

 

:001_huh: I agree? He is not a healthy woman....

 

The point I was trying to make was that people (men and women) live well into their 90s, and even 100s, and are still alive and kickin' ;) Age just can't be compared like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with whoever posted about McCain's cancer history.

 

Melanoma is a terrible cancer. My FIL died from melanoma 9 years ago. He had suffered his first bout 5 years before. He went through all of the treatments and was given a clean bill of health.

 

It came back in May of '99, and it had spread all over his body. He died in July of the same year. It's a ... sneaky type of cancer, if that makes sense.

 

The fact that McCain has had 4 bouts with it worries me a great deal. Much more so than his age, which doesn't really bother me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I could be a little more specific about my concern, but I did not want to risk sounding negative. Really, I am trying to consider all sides. With that disclaimer....

 

My mother in law is 75. She is really active (still working at a medical office, makes all the food for church socials, in various groups and committees and has a perfectly kept home). However, I have noticed a shift since she turned 70. Her frame of reference is no longer the present but geared slightly to the past. She more often brings up what she did, who she knew, rather than who she knows now. It is subtle, but once I see it I notice it. Also, she just gets more tired, and even though the grandkids don't notice it I do. It is the ever so slight inability to take in new information when she gets overwhelmed. She also has a difficult time relating to her g-kids that are in their 20's; they are so globally oriented and truly see no borders but those of Facebook. It is just a different paradigm. (Not that I think the new president needs to intrinsically "own" a post modern outlook; I am just trying to give words to my thoughts of the generalizations maybe one *can* make. Or can we? That is my question. I think.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ted Kennedy, with no history, now has brain cancer. Maybe we should collect DNA on our government officials to see which ones are susceptible to cancer and if they don't meet a minimum standard then not allow them to continue to serve or to run at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact that McCain has had 4 bouts with it worries me a great deal. Much more so than his age, which doesn't really bother me.

 

I agree, to a point. The fact that he has had cancer does raise questions about whether it will come back or not. Even then though, I don't think the health battles he's fought should necessarily prevent him from being president. And age doesn't really have much to do with it.

Edited by jojomojo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ted Kennedy, with no history, now has brain cancer. Maybe we should collect DNA on our government officials to see which ones are susceptible to cancer and if they don't meet a minimum standard then not allow them to continue to serve or to run at all.

 

I'm sorry. I didn't mean for this to be ugly. I think, though, that if Sen. Kennedy had had a bout of brain cancer that was in remission, I would imagine that the citizens of Massachusetts might want to see his medical records before they re-elected him. That's all.

 

I know many vigorous, thoughtful, and wonderful older people who would make wonderful presidents, and I don't think we need a DNA litmus test. But I think we might be prudent, just as we are with the other candidates. Sens. Obama and Biden have released their medical records. I think that's relevant.

 

I'm sorry if I sounded flip. That wasn't my intention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry. I didn't mean for this to be ugly. I think, though, that if Sen. Kennedy had had a bout of brain cancer that was in remission, I would imagine that the citizens of Massachusetts might want to see his medical records before they re-elected him. That's all.

 

I know many vigorous, thoughtful, and wonderful older people who would make wonderful presidents, and I don't think we need a DNA litmus test. But I think we might be prudent, just as we are with the other candidates. Sens. Obama and Biden have released their medical records. I think that's relevant.

 

I'm sorry if I sounded flip. That wasn't my intention.

 

I also apologize if my tone is more harsh than I intend it. I'm afraid there is no appropriate smiley for serious but not ferocious. Graphic designers?

 

I still contend that this is a dangerous area. Also, this kind of thing would be unacceptable practice in the private sector. Potential for illness should not be a figurative litmus test. Actual current illness that interferes with how one performs a job (blind airline pilot) is another.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also apologize if my tone is more harsh than I intend it. I'm afraid there is no appropriate smiley for serious but not ferocious. Graphic designers?

 

I still contend that this is a dangerous area. Also, this kind of thing would be unacceptable practice in the private sector. Potential for illness should not be a figurative litmus test. Actual current illness that interferes with how one performs a job (blind airline pilot) is another.

 

Right. And if there is actual, current illness (pilots have physical checkups to determine such things) I think there should be some sort of disclosure. National security. Is that fascist of me? I'm sorta torn on this, but I worry, you know?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right. And if there is actual, current illness (pilots have physical checkups to determine such things) I think there should be some sort of disclosure. National security. Is that fascist of me? I'm sorta torn on this, but I worry, you know?

 

Well, no, of course it doesn't make you fascist. But I do disagree that beyond a general disclosure of health we should require any more from our government officials for the reasons I've already stated. I also thought it was absurd when people were making a fuss about Obama's smoking and the risk of that. Most people who smoke actually don't get lung cancer. That also points to an issue of misunderstandings on health issues and common myths associated with certain illnesses and behaviors. Dangerous territory. And you can't put that genie back in the bottle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right. And if there is actual, current illness (pilots have physical checkups to determine such things) I think there should be some sort of disclosure. National security. Is that fascist of me? I'm sorta torn on this, but I worry, you know?

 

The problem is that even those checkups aren't infallible.

a pilot can pass a full EKG one day and then w/in a week have his heart explode on the tarmack right before a trip [actually happened]. Or be diagnosed w/ problems but be physically capable of safely flying.

 

Remember Apollo 13? Ken Mattingly had been exposed to measles so they kept him home. He never actually got them, but Fred Haise ended up w/ a kidney infection. You just never can tell. Pick the person that is best for the job where current health is observable.

 

but then again as Pam shared, we can't observe McCain's current medical records ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, he's had bouts of stage II melanoma, and while he was eager in the past to release his medical records, he will not release them this time.

 

So for a 72 y/o who is not forthcoming about his or her medical history -- especially having been so transparent about it before -- I'm hesitant. And this isn't about party affiliation at all.

 

I agree with this completely--the fact that he won't release his info now makes me very nervous--putting opinions of candidates completely aside.

 

My mom is 72 and was doing well until an illness, which weakened her tremendously. Now she is totally different, and has early stages of alzheimer's, +. That doesn't mean McCain does, it is just her.

 

However, McCain has been through a lot, mentally and physically, and, over time, that kind of stress, plus other stressors, can take a toll, and his not releasing his info now says a lot, especially when he was so forthcoming before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still contend that this is a dangerous area. Also, this kind of thing would be unacceptable practice in the private sector. Potential for illness should not be a figurative litmus test. Actual current illness that interferes with how one performs a job (blind airline pilot) is another.

 

I think the difference for me is that we can not just hire ourselves a new President if something happens to incapacitate the current jobholder. We're locked in for 4 years with the party's ticket. In the private sector, you can hire someone new. It might be a difficult process, but nothing like an presidential campaign.

 

Clearly, there are no guarantees for anyone but there are different actuarial odds based on age and health history. As voters, I think we do have to weigh those odds along with all of our other voting preferences to reach a decision. It's not a litmus test, but it is an important consideration. An easy way to ease voter's concerns is by choosing a VP that is similar in outlook and experience to the candidate. If a candidate doesn't go that route, I think it's fair that they are subjected to greater scrutiny of age/health concerns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I think about the election, I am trying to answer a few questions of concern to me (about both parties). I need help with one of them.

 

Mr.McCain is 72. Are any of you 72, or have parents (or grandparents) who are 72? Would you mind giving me descriptions of their health and abilities? I don't want to get into a discussion of Mrs. Palin; I think a death or illness in the White House would be traumatic regardless of who is the VP. I might be making a mountain out of a molehill... after all, I thought 30 was old until I got there ;).

 

Really, without being Repub. or Dem., talk to me about being 72!

 

Re: presidential death

What may be more meaningful than collecting anecdotal evidence is looking at actuarial tables. Of course, you would need certain information about McCain's health and personal life that may or may not be available. But that would be a good place to start. At least you could find an unbiased statistical likelihood of death in next four years for a 72 year old nonsmoking white male of average weight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of his parents is still alive. The other did not live to be the age he is now, so genetics is a mixed bag. He has not had the best of health, so it is a worry.

 

But I would vote for him anyway. He does have experience and wisdom.

 

The problem for me is that I really think Palin would be a horrible president and while McCain's health is a worry, thinking about Palin as president is truly terrible, in my opinion. And while McCain is likely to still be alive in the next four years, he could be incapacitated, and I am very reluctant to vote for him when Palin is second in command. I am one who wishes she would step down.

 

I am still undecided on who to vote for, and this is a factor for me. If he hadn't chosen Palin, I would probably be able to say, "Yes, this is who I will vote for." But I actually agree with Obama on some important issues too, and I think he would be a good president in some ways. I feel that in Obama and McCain, we actually have two reasonable good choices. I think whoever is president, it's going to be a very very difficult season for our country, so I am not saying that I am greatly optimistic about our future - but I do think they are both men I could vote for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Senator McCain is 72...so is my dad. They were classmates at USNA. My dad is in excellent health, still works, and is extremely physically active. My mom is 71 and is also in excellent health. Because of them I think of 72 as a great time of life.

 

Ria

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really think Palin would be a horrible president and while McCain's health is a worry, thinking about Palin as president is truly terrible, in my opinion. And while McCain is likely to still be alive in the next four years, he could be incapacitated, and I am very reluctant to vote for him when Palin is second in command. I am one who wishes she would step down.

 

McCain's age isn't a deal breaker for me, either, but I didn't rule him out altogether until Palin joined the ticket. That was the ultimate deal breaker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am afraid I disagree.

 

Churchill also had an extremely tough life and he became Prime Minister (for the last time) at 77.

 

Winston Churchill did serve a third term as Prime Minister, but he also suffered a serious stroke during that tenure, and was not (before or after the stroke) nearly the sort of leader he was during the war years.

 

His final term was generally considered a "failure" not a triumph, and this goes to show that with age can come declining capacity.

 

Bill (who believes Sir Winston Churchill is one of the great heroes of the 20th Century)

Edited by Spy Car
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill,

 

At least you and I agree on the greatness of Churchill, oh that we could have more Conservatives like him.

 

You are correct, he did have a stroke, but at 78.

 

Let us also remember that he led the loyal opposition from 1946 till he returned to 10 Downing. It was at the age of 71 that he gave his famous Iron Curtain speech.

 

I think you are stretching it by laying the blame for the "failure" of his third term on the man rather than the times. Much of the argument about his third term comes from the inexorable, and in my view lamentable, decline of the British Empire. He dealt with, and despite modern historical revisionism, defeated both the Mau Mau uprising and the Emergency in Malaya.

 

He was facing Cold War, troubles at home, a US that opposed the idea of Empire, rebellions in various colonies, growing socialism within the Unions, economic issues, a general malaise of the British People: these are the issues which he faced and I would argue his performance was admirable. In his 70s he certainly did far better than some of his younger colleagues, perhaps we have a parallel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I think about the election, I am trying to answer a few questions of concern to me (about both parties). I need help with one of them.

 

Mr.McCain is 72. Are any of you 72, or have parents (or grandparents) who are 72? Would you mind giving me descriptions of their health and abilities? I don't want to get into a discussion of Mrs. Palin; I think a death or illness in the White House would be traumatic regardless of who is the VP. I might be making a mountain out of a molehill... after all, I thought 30 was old until I got there ;).

 

Really, without being Repub. or Dem., talk to me about being 72!

 

Most of the 70/80 year olds I have had contact with have been college professors. They were smart, with-it, incredible people. They taught me a ton and I have no problem voting for someone in that age bracket.

 

In terms of asking potential presidents/vp's to submit their medical data, that's a slippery slope. Full body scan-cat scan-pregnancy test-IQ test?

Holly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the 70/80 year olds I have had contact with have been college professors. They were smart, with-it, incredible people. They taught me a ton and I have no problem voting for someone in that age bracket.

 

In terms of asking potential presidents/vp's to submit their medical data, that's a slippery slope. Full body scan-cat scan-pregnancy test-IQ test?

Holly

 

IQ test. Definitely. :001_smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, my fil is 90. He still irrigates 5 acres, is rebuilding a couple old cars, mows the yard (riding mower), helps his 86 yr. old wife garden, reads the paper, keeps up on all current events, and on and on. So 72 doesn't seem that old to me.

 

Janet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A quick Google search for "McCain health records" turned up this link:

 

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/mccains_health_records.php

 

It seems pretty thorough to me, and goes up through 2008. What do you mean when you say that McCain is holding back health records?

 

ETA: Okay, I did some more reading, and I see that Democratic activists are seeking to make a campaign issue of McCain's health, and the fact that the records were only available to reporters for a limited time is one of their points.

 

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5imvTVA-Hl4kb1-9NRkXv-LWU5h3AD93E2J3O0

 

Personally, I think that the information given to reporters in the first link above, with thousands of pages of medical records available, is enough for most people. I think this probably means more to Democrats, who weren't seriously considering voting for McCain in the first place, than it does for people who are actually seriously considering voting for him. If the records had never been opened at all, that would be different. But there is a lot of information here for people to have a good idea of his health. To be perfectly honest, I think it's much ado about nothing, to put doubt in people's minds.

Edited by Erica in PA
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A quick Google search for "McCain health records" turned up this link:

 

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/mccains_health_records.php

 

It seems pretty thorough to me, and goes up through 2008. What do you mean when you say that McCain is holding back health records?

 

He allowed a select group of reporters to view some of his health records for 3 hours in May. They were not permitted to make copies. He has been called on to make all of his health records public and has refused to do so. Now, of course, this is his right, but it is also the right of people to consider whether he is doing this because he has something to hide.

 

If I were otherwise inclined to vote for a candidate of McCain's age and health, his age would not stop me, but I would be concerned about it. If I were on the fence, it might well be one thing I would look at to help me make up my mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I did some more reading, and I see that Democratic activists are seeking to make a campaign issue of McCain's health, and the fact that the records were only available to reporters for a limited time is one of their points.

 

...But there is a lot of information here for people to have a good idea of his health. To be perfectly honest, I think it's much ado about nothing, to put doubt in people's minds.

 

Well, I'm not an activist, but it is an issue for me. (And I was a potential McCain voter, so although it's moot now, it wasn't always so this election cycle.) It is an issue for not *just* me, that's why the campaign can raise this issue.

 

If it's much ado about nothing, then it's not a big deal to open the records like before. *shrug* But on the other hand, I tell my children vehemently and often that just because you have nothing to hide when the police officer pulls you over and politely asks to search your vehicle and your trunk, it doesn't mean you say "yes." You say, "No." Every time, no matter what unless they have a warrant. And if they need a warrant, they can go get one.

 

So I get the argument of the other side. But then on the OTHER hand (count the number of hands with me now...), it's like Sen. Obama posting his birth certificate on his site. Was it required? No. Did it take that question of his qualification off the table once and for all? You betcha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haven't read all the posts...but when I saw his 95+ aged mother at the convention and looking/acting as if she were 65...I knew he had good genes...I have no concern about his age in the least...

 

Can you imagine if folks had been worried about age when George Washington was elected? The life expectancy for men in the 1780's was less than 35-40 years...George Washington was in his 60's when he was President..more than 20 years over the life expectancy...

 

so no, doesn't worry me.

 

Tara

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think a particular age can be generalized like that. You would have to look at individual health and family background. You could have a 96 year old man jogging a mile everyday and a 60 year old man who can hardly climb a flight of stairs without getting winded.

 

Look at McCains mom - she's 96 and she looks like she's still going strong ;)

 

Totally agree.

 

My parents and dh's parents are in their early-mid-70s. Dh and I each take more prescriptions than they do -- combined! They are moderate in their habits and enjoy life to the fullest - many activities, groups, responsibilities.

 

My dad and mom fly to and from my sister's on a regular basis if something's going on with her dc's activities. They also travel a good deal. Parents of a dear friend use travelocity and are travelling the world, often at a moment's notice if the right tickets and destinations come up!

 

All of my grandparents lived into their late 80s except one, with full mental capacity and dh's grandparents lived into their 90s.

 

There are many 40-50 yo's with worse health and habits than any of our folks.

 

I think it's very relative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly don't think McCain's age is as much of an issue as his history of cancer. But to be fair, Obama could have an aneurysm tomorrow. There are no guarantees for anyone. That's why the VP pick is important.

 

:iagree: Last Friday, a friend of mine died at age 48. He had no illness, no symptoms, just dropped dead walking to the 11th hole on the golf course and could not be revived.

 

I don't see McCain's age as an issue in this campaign.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Can you imagine if folks had been worried about age when George Washington was elected? The life expectancy for men in the 1780's was less than 35-40 years...George Washington was in his 60's when he was President..more than 20 years over the life expectancy..."

 

But that 35-40 years includes an extremely high infant mortality rate. Once you factor that out, I don't know that there was any particular reason to worry about a man in his 60s. Thomas Jefferson died at 83. John Adams was 90. Benjamin Franklin was 84.

 

I also find it disingenuous for people to keep mentioning his spry mother when his father died of a heart attack at the age of 70.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too many variables. My grandmother was very ill by 72, and died at 75. My FIL is 72 or 73, and lives waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy out in the country on 60 acres, that he manages himself, clearing away brush, keeping fields cleared, keeping the road cleared, gardening, etc. He has precancerous signs, but with treatment has still been able to maintain all his activities.

 

So no, his age is not a deal breaker for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good point, my grandfather had leukemia for about 25 years (probably longer, that was just the point that they incidentally discovered it in his blood work) before he died of, not leukemia at the age of 82. He also did not die of the recurring skin cancer he had. He was very active up until his unexpected death.

 

ETA: I bring up these anecdotes not to prove anything other than anecdotal evidence is not at all helpful in this decision. It neither proves nor disproves his fitness although our experiences will certainly impact the way we view aging and illness. In my family and social circle there are quite a number of cancer surivors and I would hate to see discrimination against them in this manner.

 

We can speculate on why McCain is guarded about his records. Maybe its a principle thing. Maybe he doesn't want things misinterpreted by a press that is increasing hostile toward him. Maybe he's hiding something. Its okay for you to decide not to vote for him based upon that but I would caution against making it standard to make full disclosure of potential health issues a qualification for jobs.

Edited by Zelda
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the 70/80 year olds I have had contact with have been college professors. They were smart, with-it, incredible people. They taught me a ton and I have no problem voting for someone in that age bracket.

 

In terms of asking potential presidents/vp's to submit their medical data, that's a slippery slope. Full body scan-cat scan-pregnancy test-IQ test?

Holly

 

Ever heard of elder-hostels? Retired folks go to a college for a week or two of learning and study -- some stay in dorms during summer or breaks.

 

Sounds like a cool thing to do as a retiree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share


Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...