Penelope Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I've nearly decided on Campbell Reece Biology: Concepts and Connections. I am thinking about purchasing the DIVE downloads, primarily because it would be nice to have tests and quizzes done for me. I don't know how much we would use the lecture material. I understand there is no syllabus for this text, but I think I could make one to correlate easily enough. Questions: What are the tests like? Mainly multiple choice, or are there some that require more explanation from the student? How often is "young earth" addressed? And lastly, did you really feel that DIVE constituted an honors course, considering the amount of material covered and the difficulty of the exams? Is there anyone who has had a child do well on the SAT-2 (or even AP, since the website claims it could be AP level) after using DIVE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 Bump 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I've nearly decided on Campbell Reece Biology: Concepts and Connections. I am thinking about purchasing the DIVE downloads, primarily because it would be nice to have tests and quizzes done for me. I don't know how much we would use the lecture material. I understand there is no syllabus for this text, but I think I could make one to correlate easily enough. Questions: What are the tests like? Mainly multiple choice, or are there some that require more explanation from the student? How often is "young earth" addressed? And lastly, did you really feel that DIVE constituted an honors course, considering the amount of material covered and the difficulty of the exams? Is there anyone who has had a child do well on the SAT-2 (or even AP, since the website claims it could be AP level) after using DIVE? Frankly I wouldn't do that. His evaluation material is very much based on his lectures with the text as background reading, which is how good colleges courses are taught. That's why you can use his materials with different textbooks and come out fine. The lectures are the common element. If you take out the lectures, the tests might not cover what you want. I would say that his materials are light on young Earth and Christianity in general, but I wouldn't think that most secular people would be comfortable with them. We are creationists, but tend to take a more middle road, and it was fine for us. The exams are a mix of multiple choice, labelling diagrams, and short answer. I felt like they were appropriate for a rigorous science program. I haven't done any honors designations on my transcripts, so we just called it "Biology." My older one also did his chemistry, and the younger one did the earth science. I don't like Saxon Physics, so we didn't do the physics, and my younger one needed lighter chemistry this year. We didn't do science AP's or SAT-II's, so I can't speak to that. HTH! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 And lastly, did you really feel that DIVE constituted an honors course, considering the amount of material covered and the difficulty of the exams? Is there anyone who has had a child do well on the SAT-2 (or even AP, since the website claims it could be AP level) after using DIVE? I don't have much time, but I wanted to answer this specifically. I do not think a student would be well-prepared for the AP biology exam, but they would be prepared for the SAT-2, although I would still definitely recommend a review book. Oh, and I agree that you shouldn't use another text and just the tests. The first time I taught AP bio, we hadn't decided we were actually going to go the AP route, so we started off using DIVE and supplementing with Campbell. Then we decided to go for it, and we really only used Campbell, but I still gave them the tests, since I had spent money for them. But I did have to go back and make sure to specifically cover things on the test that he had said in the lectures for the kids. We never did listen to all that many lectures, but I watched most of the labs (to get ideas for set-up and so on), since they are the old AP bio labs. Often at the beginning of the lab, he'll make comments about God (which don't bother me, as a creationist), but they are easy to fast-forward through, and during the actual lab, there's not mention of religious things, except again possibly at the very end when he's drawing conclusions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemberley Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 We used DIVE for biology. Not a good fit for us - at all. The lectures were sort of dull. Not engaging for my son at all. I understand that not all college professors will be engaging, but I feel like while my kids are learning at home, we should look for the materials that will capture and keep their attention. DIVE didn't do that for us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Okay, so no skipping the lectures. But, there are only 38 lectures, so clearly there is a much larger reading than lecture component. This is one of the things I found appealing; it seemed a compromise between a simple guided syllabus of topics and a complete, structured class. I am not young earth and he unabashedly is, and that's okay. I just wondered how much it come sea up-- are there entire lectures on creationism? I am wondering about presuppositions in the test questions, and whether I would have to modify some of them. I guess that wouldn't be a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Okay, so no skipping the lectures. But, there are only 38 lectures, so clearly there is a much larger reading than lecture component. This is one of the things I found appealing; it seemed a compromise between a simple guided syllabus of topics and a complete, structured class. I am not young earth and he unabashedly is, and that's okay. I just wondered how much it come sea up-- are there entire lectures on creationism? I am wondering about presuppositions in the test questions, and whether I would have to modify some of them. I guess that wouldn't be a big deal. I just checked my table of contents, and it looks like there are 3 specific lectures on origins (14, 15, and 16). They are "Evolution Theories", "What the Bible Says About Origins", and "Intelligent Design". The lab that goes along with that section is one dealing with how to use the Hardy-Weinburg equation, which is an important concept so I wouldn't skip that lab. But that was the lab where he had some particularly weird comments on evolution in the intro and the conclusion that I was like, ummm, that's not really a logical argument and why is that comment even here?! We did skip the lectures, so I don't know what exactly he says there. On exam 2, it looked to me like there were about 8 questions out of 66 multiple choice/true and false/fill-in-the-blank questions that would be problematic, but I would think you could just skip those and grade that part out of 58 or whatever. The short answer part of the test has a few problematic questions worth 9 more points. They ask the student to define evolution, give evidence as to why you believe or do not believe God created the earth, and give one example of an irreducibly complex system. Then there are other questions in that section about labeling a sketch of a bacteria, list the kingdoms, etc., so it's not all about origins. I checked the other 3 exams, and none of them mention origins again. Exam 1 does have 2 questions involving Bible verses that were mentioned in the first lecture, "Science, God, and You". I think if you skipped the first section of the exam (6 questions), then there isn't anything else from that lecture on the exam or anywhere else. Hope this helps! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Okay, so no skipping the lectures. But, there are only 38 lectures, so clearly there is a much larger reading than lecture component. This is one of the things I found appealing; it seemed a compromise between a simple guided syllabus of topics and a complete, structured class. I am not young earth and he unabashedly is, and that's okay. I just wondered how much it come sea up-- are there entire lectures on creationism? I am wondering about presuppositions in the test questions, and whether I would have to modify some of them. I guess that wouldn't be a big deal. The first time we used DIVE, I tried to use at as you are thinking of, as a supplement. It just doesn't work. His videos and labs have to be the focus, with the text as the supplement. For Biology, I made my own syllabus using Miller/Levine Biology. It worked great for us. However, I know from comparing them that M/L and Concepts and Connections do not present things in the same way at all. Its been too long, but I want to say C&C went through systems and then included what classifications would have those systems. As opposed to going through a class of animals, say arthropods and discussing what systems they would have. Does that make any sense? Anyway, M/L matched up pretty easily to DIVE. There was more info in M/L than necessary for DIVE, but we just read extra material as it fit. However, that makes me think that C&C wouldn't match well (because the two texts are so different). Also, C&C will have even more depth than DIVE that will just exist in the reading. No, I don't consider DIVE to be an honors level course. I consider it to be a solid on level Biology. Dd used DIVE for ICP, Biology and Chemistry. Ds tried it for ICP and hated it. Dr. Shoreman is boring. However, dd appreciated his straight forward teaching style. We are old earth creationists here and found his materials too Christian and too YE, but not as strong as something like BJU. We could work with it and ignore it or laugh at it in general. YMMV. I like DIVE test, but consider them on the easy side. They typically include matching, fill in the blank w/ a word bank, T/F, labeling diagrams, and a bit of short answer. There are only 4 tests which I really liked, but because they each cover a great deal of material, the depth of coverage is a little light. I generally like DIVE labs, but would point out that information only found in the labs can be found on the tests, so again, you need to use his program as your primary source. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 What is ICP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 What is ICP? Integrated Chemistry and Physics. It is the more higher ed friendly name for Physical Science. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Integrated Chemistry and Physics. It is the more higher ed friendly name for Physical Science. :) Is it actually any different than Physical Science? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Is it actually any different than Physical Science? It only covers Chemistry and Physics. Physical Science often includes Earth Science and may even be primarily Earth Science. ICP is typically 1 semester of each: Chemistry & Physics. It works well for an intro to Chemistry before hitting Biology (which includes some chemistry). Both of my kids did an ICP course in 8th using Prentice Hall's Physical Science Concepts in Action textbook (which is a 9th grade text and includes Earth Science) and just doing the Chem/Physics sections. DIVE correlated very well to the Chemistry section and not at all well to the Physics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Thanks! My dd is doing physical science this year, and there is no earth science at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Thanks! My dd is doing physical science this year, and there is no earth science at all. If it matters, for colleges she applies to you could list it on her transcript as ICP. Physical Science wouldn't have been a problem at any university we looked at, but I have seen posts here with universities that exclude Physical Science from the science credits they will take for entrance requirements. Our State U's exclude General Science, but accept Physical Science, so it really didn't matter. ICP is just the new name that seems to gain universal acceptance by colleges... go figure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 If it matters, for colleges she applies to you could list it on her transcript as ICP. She's in 8th grade this year, so it won't be on her transcript. Thanks for the info! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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