A Mother's Reckoning

[MrsWeasley]

I just read the Washington Post's article about A Mother's Reckoning, by Sue Klebold and put the book on hold. Thoughts? Really, I just can't even imagine.

[BlsdMama]

I watched part of the interview the other night and something she said really struck me... 

_{“I want people to be aware that things can seem awfully right when things are terribly, terribly wrong,†she said.}

 

That was unsettling to me.  It isn't something you want to think about - but it could certainly (and has) happened over and over and over again... Parents not suspecting.  I think we, as parents in this time period, can't see the line between respect and checking up on our kids.  Our children have a *reasonable* expectation of privacy and respect, however, not telling me where/what you're doing is simply unacceptable and if I'm looking for a sock, I could and will look under your bed and in your closet.  That's reasonable.  

 

I thought this was interesting.

My first thought was ... that somehow Eric had done something that turned into something else.

 

Psychologists have now said that it appears Eric was a psychopath and that the other one, her son, was just depressed and suicidal - a willing participant to keep a friend?  Hm.  That's scary to me - that a child can be so wrapped up in another, so dependent, so fearful of being alone that they would do something horrific.

 

I wonder - is this a bigger picture of the fact that we herd children together into groups of peers from a very early age so that they can't imagine themselves without a group, without a peer to relate to?

 

I don't know.  I hurt for her, the other mothers, the parents, the siblings, the teachers.  I can't imagine being a teacher in this day, this age....

Edited February 15, 2016 by BlsdMama

[Guest]

I cannot read that book.

[StaceyinLA]

I watched her interview too and I just felt so heartbroken for her. So often we jump to asking, "where were the parents," but it's so easy these days for teens to hide things that parents can be blissfully unaware of things starting to go awry.

 

 

 

 

[JFSinIL]

I feel for her - refuse to condemn a parent for the actions of a teenager. Hindsight is cheap. Wish there was funding to provide mental health screenings and services for all teens and young adults - and that the stigma of mental illness could be eliminated (better yet, eliminate mental illness - I can dream, can't it?)

[Guest]

I watched her interview too and I just felt so heartbroken for her. So often we jump to asking, "where were the parents," but it's so easy these days for teens to hide things that parents can be blissfully unaware of things starting to go awry.

Yes, but this is why I cannot read that book. I will become paranoid about my own children. I mean, it is "easier" to hear an account of a child who was obviously disturbed for many years - it fits, it makes sense. I don't want to hear how something that appeared to be passing depression turned into homocidal/suicidal actions.

[PeacefulChaos]

This looks absolutely heartbreaking.  I'll most likely add it to my 'to read' list, but wow - I think it will be a difficult one to get through.

 

People can be so quick to judge actions - 'where were the parents' and other such drivel.  Ugh.  Just reading the article made my heart hurt.  :(

 

I was in high school during the time of Columbine.  When did it happen?  1999?  That was the end of my junior year.  I remember the waves of panic all over the place as a result of it.  

[Guest]

I was just talking to my sister about a boy we went to school with. He made a lot of money on a business deal and is in the process of snorting it away. He blames his parents and refuses to see them. I can't imagine. You tuck a child in every night, you do your best and they still choose a wrong path. Our children have the ability to break our hearts and we are powerless to stop it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

That was really hard to read.  I don't think I could get through that book.

 

 

[freesia]

I don't think I can read it. I read the article she wrote a couple of years ago and parts still haunt me--especially when she said that she missed her son. I am so aware of my weaknesses as a mother--but don't we all have weaknesses that if anything happened someone could point to them and say that what they did is b/c of what we did? At some point, our children chose their own path.

 

I find the whole thing so heartbreaking and, frankly, terrifying in my lack of control over whether it would happen to me. . ..

Edited February 15, 2016 by freesia

[gardenmom5]

I watched part of the interview the other night and something she said really struck me... 

 

 

I thought this was interesting.

My first thought was ... that somehow Eric had done something that turned into something else.

 

Psychologists have now said that it appears Eric was a psychopath and that the other one, her son, was just depressed and suicidal - a willing participant to keep a friend?  Hm.  That's scary to me - that a child can be so wrapped up in another, so dependent, so fearful of being alone that they would do something horrific.

 

I wonder - is this a bigger picture of the fact that we herd children together into groups of peers from a very early age so that they can't imagine themselves without a group, without a peer to relate to?

 

I don't know.  I hurt for her, the other mothers, the parents, the siblings, the teachers.  I can't imagine being a teacher in this day, this age....

 

last week, I read an article on anne marie hochhalter. she was paralyzed in the attack. something she said made me go down the same road as the psychologist. (incidentally - six months later her mother committed suicide. she was already suffering from depression.)

 

the klebold's wrote her a long handwritten letter, and followed her progress.  she felt they were sincere in their care and she bears them no ill will.

 

eric's parents ... "was four sentences long and 'cold and robotic'"

 

 

​eta: about what desperate people will do ... we have a local case where a woman inspired her boyfriend to murder her parents on Christmas eve. then they waited for her brother and his family to arrive so they could murder them too.  she got HIM to shoot a 3yo and a 6yo because she was too much of a wimp (she says they shouldn't have to grow up without parents.). the impressions are he was a desperate and willing tool.  

​I'm ticked our current gov took the death penalty off the table -she is that cold and deserves it.

Edited February 15, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Guest]

I was so heartbroken at the article - that she couldn't really grieve her lost son because she was viewed as somehow responsible or complicit and evil? Poor woman. The whole thing is so tragic, for *everyone* touched by it.

[gardenmom5]

I was so heartbroken at the article - that she couldn't really grieve her lost son because she was viewed as somehow responsible or complicit and evil? Poor woman. The whole thing is so tragic, for *everyone* touched by it.

 

she's in much the same position as the wife of the amish school shooter - except the amish embraced her into their community as another victim.

[goldberry]

she's in much the same position as the wife of the amish school shooter - except the amish embraced her into their community as another victim.

 

That part of the Amish shooting touched me so deeply.  I found it coming up into my mind for months.  I am a Christian, but it was hard to conceive, and I admit I was humbled by it.

[Katy]

I find it... I can't find the words, so I'm just going to type and I'm sure offend someone. I think the idea that there were no signs is rationalization on her part, designed to assuage her own guilt.  Of course she had no idea what the signs meant, but there were signs, they were very clear and repeated...  he was in a diversion program because he was at risk of severe crime!  His teachers said his papers were disturbing.

 

I won't read the book.  I feel like I already have a good grasp on what the signs are, and while she's not guilty of her son's crimes, she is guilty of bad parenting. I can't imagine having that many signs - diversion programs and concerned teachers - and not going through every possession and notebook he had, finding the additional warnings, getting him out of that school and into a hospital. And frankly, I feel entitled to make that judgment of her because we have had severe mental illness in the family and we would never have let it get that far with a teenager who we still had legal control over. Perhaps that's not fair.  Perhaps it's rationalization on my part. I don't think so though.  I think you can either face something like that straight on when you realize you have a problem, or you can bury your head and let things play out as if you don't care. She choose to bury her head. Frankly, I don't want to funnel money to her, or to a publishing company who thinks this is the sort of thing that should be released, any more than I would buy the book of a murderer.

 

Go ahead, flame away.

[Joker]

I feel some think getting mental health care is so easy. It's not. It's especially difficult for youth. It's also not cheap. We just received an $11,000 bill for one week of inpatient care.

 

I feel for her and won't judge her.

[jelbe5]

She is someone who cannot win, no matter what she does. If she speaks up, if she stays silent....the idea that mothers must know, and that mothers are to blame is still a strong one in our culture.

I appreciate this statement. When I was in social work school in 1990 the prof I had for child psychopathology was still teaching that autism was the result of the "refrigerator mother". That thought haunted me when our son was diagnosed in 2000. Today I know that is garbage, but it is a pervasive thought that has not completely gone away. Blaming the mothers/parents for the crimes of the mentally ill child often seems to be the first reaction.

[cjzimmer1]

I find it... I can't find the words, so I'm just going to type and I'm sure offend someone. I think the idea that there were no signs is rationalization on her part, designed to assuage her own guilt.  Of course she had no idea what the signs meant, but there were signs, they were very clear and repeated...  he was in a diversion program because he was at risk of severe crime!  His teachers said his papers were disturbing.

 

I won't read the book.  I feel like I already have a good grasp on what the signs are, and while she's not guilty of her son's crimes, she is guilty of bad parenting. I can't imagine having that many signs - diversion programs and concerned teachers - and not going through every possession and notebook he had, finding the additional warnings, getting him out of that school and into a hospital. And frankly, I feel entitled to make that judgment of her because we have had severe mental illness in the family and we would never have let it get that far with a teenager who we still had legal control over. Perhaps that's not fair.  Perhaps it's rationalization on my part. I don't think so though.  I think you can either face something like that straight on when you realize you have a problem, or you can bury your head and let things play out as if you don't care. She choose to bury her head. Frankly, I don't want to funnel money to her, or to a publishing company who thinks this is the sort of thing that should be released, any more than I would buy the book of a murderer.

 

Go ahead, flame away.

 

While I can understand your thoughts on this, I have to disagree.  Not everyone recognizes problems that others find obvious and even if they do, don't realize the seriousness of them or perhaps have no clue where to find help.  I and my sister have both dealt with issues (not on this level) where we simply had no idea of what it was.  We could tell things were off but having no personal knowledge of anyone with a mental disorder, an addiction or even severe depression, it's pretty hard to know what if anything to do.  Maybe we live in a bubble but I know we can't be alone.  But until this situation arose when I was 40 years old, I have never been close enough to someone to know they were dealing with one of those issues.  So when faced with some off behavior but not harmful in and of itself we tend to brush it off, it's something they are going through, they will get over it etc.  You don't really understand how serious it is until they go over the edge and the police show up at your door.  But by then the damage is done.  I would imagine it would be even easier when dealing with a teenager who have the reputation of moods and experimenting etc,  even when you hear/see disturbing things, you have to wonder, is this really how they feel, is this a faze etc.  Even the best parents in the world will miss things, especially with a child who tends to keep things to themselves normally.

 

Also the profits of the book are going to fund mental health stuff.  The mom isn't making anything off this.

[gardenmom5]

I am always amazed at people who think it's easy to force mental health care on teens .. . . the laws give teens enormous autonomy over mental health care.  their parents can't force them into treatment, an inpatient facility, etc. even if they are the one's footing the bill. the provider can't even talk to the parents without the teenagers permission. only if  they present as an immediate threat to themselves to professionals (appearing as a danger to their parents doesn't count. - didn't count when the theater shooters counselor said he was dangerous) -can a hospital legally implement a *temporary* involuntary hold.

 

but maybe I shouldn't be surprised.  my grandmother belonged to that flavor of evangelical Christian who was sure she could control my mother's (and then ours) every thought and action.

except, I believe that God gave us agency to choose for ourselves.  there's only so much a parent can do.

 

eta: and that's assuming the parent understands the seriousness of the problem AND where to go for help.   how many threads have we had on here from parents/friends-of-parents with a child/teen who is displaying ___ behaviors and wondering what to do?   my grandmother sought to control all of us to the point it. was. abusive.!  that is NOT God's idea of being a good parent.

Edited February 16, 2016 by gardenmom5

[barnwife]

I find it... I can't find the words, so I'm just going to type and I'm sure offend someone. I think the idea that there were no signs is rationalization on her part, designed to assuage her own guilt.  Of course she had no idea what the signs meant, but there were signs, they were very clear and repeated...  he was in a diversion program because he was at risk of severe crime!  His teachers said his papers were disturbing.

 

I won't read the book.  I feel like I already have a good grasp on what the signs are, and while she's not guilty of her son's crimes, she is guilty of bad parenting. I can't imagine having that many signs - diversion programs and concerned teachers - and not going through every possession and notebook he had, finding the additional warnings, getting him out of that school and into a hospital. And frankly, I feel entitled to make that judgment of her because we have had severe mental illness in the family and we would never have let it get that far with a teenager who we still had legal control over. Perhaps that's not fair.  Perhaps it's rationalization on my part. I don't think so though.  I think you can either face something like that straight on when you realize you have a problem, or you can bury your head and let things play out as if you don't care. She choose to bury her head. Frankly, I don't want to funnel money to her, or to a publishing company who thinks this is the sort of thing that should be released, any more than I would buy the book of a murderer.

 

Go ahead, flame away.

RE: what I bolded...how do you know? Clearly, in hindsight, he needed help. But...isn't it possible that she thought he was getting (enough) help? 

 

I am sorry, but what you wrote screams "I am a better person/mother and this could never happen to me."

 

This brings to mind a situation with one of our kids in which I knew something was wrong. And I tried to find the cause. But, even though we had many medical appointments, we never were able to find the cause of his issues. And, for better or for worse, we are still dealing with effects from that today.

 

Should I have done more? Maybe. But I was doing the best I could. And thankfully, the lingering issues are things we can deal with. 

 

Until I've walked a mile in her shoes (and frankly, even if you have dealt with mental illness, you've never dealt with it in her circumstances), I am not judging.

 

It's a tragic situation all around.

[bettyandbob]

I believe the book's proceeds are going to a charity for mental illness.

 

I think by writing and giving interviews she has an honest intent to help other families. 

 

I don't think we can judge that parents (mothers specifically) had to know. 

 

As a parent, you can know something is wrong, but you don't necessarily know the depths. You can try to get help. Many parents do try to get help. Our medical and specifically mental health systems are not set up to make access to intervention possible for everyone. There are quite a few people who seek help for children and cannot get all the help they need. 

[gardenmom5]

RE: what I bolded...how do you know? Clearly, in hindsight, he needed help. But...isn't it possible that she thought he was getting (enough) help? 

 

I am sorry, but what you wrote screams "I am a better person/mother and this could never happen to me."

 

 

makes me think of the job's comforters, who go around proclaiming that bad things *only* happen to bad people - to make themselves feel better because they're afraid of having bad things happen to them. . . . . 

it's better to humble yourself - and not go around being so sanctimonious that life ends up humbling you.

[PeacefulChaos]

RE: what I bolded...how do you know? Clearly, in hindsight, he needed help. But...isn't it possible that she thought he was getting (enough) help? 

 

I am sorry, but what you wrote screams "I am a better person/mother and this could never happen to me."

 

This brings to mind a situation with one of our kids in which I knew something was wrong. And I tried to find the cause. But, even though we had many medical appointments, we never were able to find the cause of his issues. And, for better or for worse, we are still dealing with effects from that today.

 

Should I have done more? Maybe. But I was doing the best I could. And thankfully, the lingering issues are things we can deal with. 

 

Until I've walked a mile in her shoes (and frankly, even if you have dealt with mental illness, you've never dealt with it in her circumstances), I am not judging.

 

It's a tragic situation all around.

This.

 

 

Let's also not forget that this was 1999.  How difficult is it to get proper mental health treatment today?  How much harder could it have been then?

We may say now that we 'know the signs' - were they as well known then?  

I know it's not the dark ages.  It's less than 20 years ago.  But that doesn't mean it couldn't still be a factor.

 

And for anyone who insists that they/their child wouldn't do _____, I really just have nothing to say to that.  Every life is different, every person is different.  No one knows what they would do or who they would be with just one thing different.  And children are individuals, too, who make decisions that have nothing to do with their parents a lot of times.  

So.  I'll just leave that at that.  

[PeacefulChaos]

makes me think of the job's comforters, who go around proclaiming that bad things *only* happen to bad people - to make themselves feel better because they're afraid of having bad things happen to them. . . . . 

it's better to humble yourself - and not go around being so sanctimonious that life ends up humbling you.

 

posted at the same time, but wanted to agree with this as well.

 

I see adults a lot of time saying, 'I can't believe that so-and-so (insert anything considered not good here)!!  I would never do that*

Uh-huh.  Sure.  I can't say that about myself - ever.  I don't know who I'll be in 5 or 10 years or who I could have been if I had decided to do one thing instead of another.  But sure.  Go ahead and pretend that you're (these IRL people) holier-than-any-who-have-ever-made-mistakes.  :rolleyes:

[BarbecueMom]

I read Dave Cullen's book, Columbine. That was enough. I don't think I can read this one.

 

Those of us who were in high school in 1999 have those two kids' names burned into our brains. We remember the grainy security footage of a school set up like the ones we were in every day. We remember the way teachers and principals scrutinized the way kids dressed and how smart they were, desperately trying to find potential killers in waiting. We remember lockdowns and looking for potential exits or hiding spots, before formal protocols and drills started. We remember that school post-Columbine was different, that it was no longer a joke to think that certain classmates were ticking bombs. It was a real possibility.

 

That experience plus years of research and dialogue about mental health and gun control and cultural violence gives us an edge as now-parents, but makes it easy to Monday morning quarterback the decisions and parenting choices made pre-Columbine. And unfortunately, there is likely a tragedy yet to unfold, catching us off guard while we are busy securing the guns and meds and Internet access and asking our teens what should be the right questions but in the end aren't right enough.

 

That's the part about parenting that keeps me up at night.

[Katy]

It was actually easier then to get care. He was already in a diversion program. All she had to do was call the officer in charge of him to get more help!  Plus, this is a minor child with a criminal background we are discussing, not an adult. It would have been more difficult to expect exactly what happened, but it was extraordinarily clear he was not heading down a good path.

 

Keep in mind I am not equivocating this with an adult who lives on his own.  This was a teenage boy who lived at home and had many many signs of severe issues, even if you assume only the ones in this article, and that there are no others.

 

Would anyone here seriously say that the second your child was arrested, placed in a diversion program, or his teacher set up a meeting to inform you she was extremely concerned about your child, that you would just let it go at that? Wouldn't you figure he'd lost the privilege of privacy at that point and for his own good go through every single belonging, every notebook or journal, every box, and figure out what was going on with him? Figure out just how bad it had gotten rather than letting it go?  Because I would.  And then at the very least, get him out of the school that is exacerbating the problem. That's what my family has done, in fact.

 

There was more than enough information there to force a commitment of a minor child.

 

I don't know, maybe I take this more personally because I lived near there at the time and I knew children at that school that year. But yeah, I would have handled it better.  Granted, I have medical experience, mental health conditions in the family experience, and even getting adult family members involuntarily committed for long periods of time experience, not to mention family in law enforcement.

 

But still, the idea that she couldn't have done something more, that she is completely blameless?  I find it infuriating.  Infuriating.  And frankly until I heard about this book I felt nothing but pity for her. Making money out of this tragedy, writing mass murder off in her head as nothing more than exacerbated suicide?  It's sickening.

[bettyandbob]

She is not making money on this book. She did the book to help others. She wants others to have a chance to avoid tragedy.

[Joker]

It's already been pointed out that she will not profit from the book. The proceeds are going to charities to benefit mental health.

[Joker]

Katy, quite frankly, you can claim all the experience in the world but until it is your child, your teen, you really have no idea. I was once judgemental but then I'm going through what I am now. Therapists, numerous ones including psychiatrists, say it is up to my dd now. There is only so much a parent can do. You can pretend otherwise but it doesn't make it true. It definitely doesn't make it easier for parents. That kind of talk also makes it less likely for parents to speak out and try to help others.

[ThisIsTheDay]

I watched part of the interview the other night and something she said really struck me... 

_{“I want people to be aware that things can seem awfully right when things are terribly, terribly wrong,†she said.}

 

That was unsettling to me.  It isn't something you want to think about - but it could certainly (and has) happened over and over and over again... Parents not suspecting.  I think we, as parents in this time period, can't see the line between respect and checking up on our kids.  Our children have a *reasonable* expectation of privacy and respect, however, not telling me where/what you're doing is simply unacceptable and if I'm looking for a sock, I could and will look under your bed and in your closet.  That's reasonable.  

 

I thought this was interesting.

My first thought was ... that somehow Eric had done something that turned into something else.

 

Psychologists have now said that it appears Eric was a psychopath and that the other one, her son, was just depressed and suicidal - a willing participant to keep a friend?  Hm.  That's scary to me - that a child can be so wrapped up in another, so dependent, so fearful of being alone that they would do something horrific.

 

I wonder - is this a bigger picture of the fact that we herd children together into groups of peers from a very early age so that they can't imagine themselves without a group, without a peer to relate to?

.

 

From the very beginning, it was determined that Harris was the leader, Klebold the follower.  It is of mild interest to me in how differently the parents responded.  The Harris family has remained virtually silent for 17 years.  While the Klebolds have not been vocal, what has been made public seems to show their hearts are so heavy.  I don't want to have sympathy for them, at least part of me. But .. .

 

 

 

 

She is someone who cannot win, no matter what she does. If she speaks up, if she stays silent....the idea that mothers must know, and that mothers are to blame is still a strong one in our culture. 

 

The extract of her book I read came across as veering between a full acceptance of her son's culpability, and a kind of self-protecting set of ideas about why he wasn't fully culpable. But I'm sure as heck not going to judge her for that. She's survived a terrible thing, and suffered for her child's crimes many times over.

 

I believe profits from this book are going to mental health charities ? 

 

Hearing from someone close to me today who is reading the book, she commented that Sue Klebold not only had to somehow grasp that her son did this incredibly awful, violent slaughter, but that on top of that, he killed himself.  I'm probably not explaining it right, since I didn't read the book, and reading my words doesn't sound as big as when I heard it today.  Of course nothing can compare to what the victims and their families suffered, but Sue had a different and huge burden to bear.

 

 

(Sorry, I lost the formatting here)

<snip>

I feel like I already have a good grasp on what the signs are, and while she's not guilty of her son's crimes, she is guilty of bad parenting.

 

Go ahead, flame away.

<end>

--------------------

 

No flames, but I think you're wrong.  The difference is that while a lot of people are guilty of bad parenting, their children do not do horrific things like this.

 

Those of us who were in high school in 1999 have those two kids' names burned into our brains.

 

Parents probably remember it even more vividly.

 

 

But still, the idea that she couldn't have done something more, that she is completely blameless?  I find it infuriating.  Infuriating.  And frankly until I heard about this book I felt nothing but pity for her. Making money out of this tragedy, writing mass murder off in her head as nothing more than exacerbated suicide?  It's sickening.

 

You said you lived nearby. I did too.  I will never forget that day, the next day, the fragileness, resiliance, and drawing together of the community.  Driving past a funeral unexpectedly.  It took several years before I could drive down Bowles Ave. without crying.  From personal experience, I can't help but think that you see it differently than most.  :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:  It affected me profoundly and changed me.  :crying:  I will never read the book; it makes me too sad just to read about it.

 

Just so you know, she's not making money.  All profits go to charities focusing on mental health issues.

 

Incredible that it's been 17 years.

Edited February 16, 2016 by ThisIsTheDay

[gardenmom5]

katy- have you heard the phrase: there but the grace of God go I . . . ?  or would you throw the stone at the woman taken in adultery?

 

I would strongly urge you to develop some compassion, she's not doing this to make money -it is all going to mental health charities.  honestly, if anne marie hochhalter is kindly disposed towards sue klebold and holds her harmless -who the h3ll are you to be so judgmental?

 

i fear if you don't start learning compassion -life is going to force you to learn, and that's the hard way.

[TechWife]

Katy, quite frankly, you can claim all the experience in the world but until it is your child, your teen, you really have no idea. I was once judgemental but then I'm going through what I am now. Therapists, numerous ones including psychiatrists, say it is up to my dd now. There is only so much a parent can do. You can pretend otherwise but it doesn't make it true. It definitely doesn't make it easier for parents. That kind of talk also makes it less likely for parents to speak out and try to help others.

 

:grouphug:

[eternalsummer]

I don't know enough about Columbine/ the kid/ the mom to make a judgement, but compassion and judgement are not mutually exclusive; furthermore, we do, as a society, throw the stone (not literally, and not at adulterers anymore in the US).

 

We hold people accountable for their mistakes.  One can make a mistake without knowing one was making one, and still be held accountable or judged.

 

Again, not speaking specifically about these people, but in general.  There is a place for mercy and a place for justice.

[Katy]

Katy, quite frankly, you can claim all the experience in the world but until it is your child, your teen, you really have no idea. I was once judgemental but then I'm going through what I am now. Therapists, numerous ones including psychiatrists, say it is up to my dd now. There is only so much a parent can do. You can pretend otherwise but it doesn't make it true. It definitely doesn't make it easier for parents. That kind of talk also makes it less likely for parents to speak out and try to help others.

 

Of course there nothing you can do to fix severe mental health issues. I'm so sorry you're going through this.  I've written before that the mental health system in this country is ridiculously poor, and that I'd like to bring back federally funded care, both inpatient and outpatient. Everyone should have access to the care they need.

 

I hope that you're not dealing with the criminal psychopathy she described as being quite clear in her son. Most mentally ill people, especially women, are much more likely to hurt themselves than someone else.  If you are dealing with criminal psychopathy, I hope you'll have the courage to call the police and get police intervention if DD starts openly writing essays about murdering the people she resents. These days if a child wrote an essay like that for school the police would be called before the parents.

 

I'm glad to hear this mother is not personally profiting from the book. I still find the minimizing and rationalizing offensive. Perhaps this is due to a personal connection.  I'm surprised I still have so much emotion about that day, about waiting to hear if the kids I knew in that school were okay or not.

[Katy]

katy- have you heard the phrase: there but the grace of God go I . . . ?  or would you throw the stone at the woman taken in adultery?

 

I would strongly urge you to develop some compassion, she's not doing this to make money -it is all going to mental health charities.  honestly, if anne marie hochhalter is kindly disposed towards sue klebold and holds her harmless -who the h3ll are you to be so judgmental?

 

i fear if you don't start learning compassion -life is going to force you to learn, and that's the hard way.

 

Where is your compassion for me?

 

No, I wouldn't throw a stone.  But I also wouldn't be selling a book about the things I did wrong, the ways I could have prevented this, while simultaneously refusing to take responsibility for my own actions or lack thereof. 

[gardenmom5]

Where is your compassion for me?

 

No, I wouldn't throw a stone.  But I also wouldn't be selling a book about the things I did wrong, the ways I could have prevented this, while simultaneously refusing to take responsibility for my own actions or lack thereof. 

 

just . . . wow. . . . .

[Miss Peregrine]

Can anyone point out where she said she is not being paid at all for writing the book? Donating "profit" doesn't equate not making money.

[Joker]

Where is your compassion for me?

 

No, I wouldn't throw a stone.  But I also wouldn't be selling a book about the things I did wrong, the ways I could have prevented this, while simultaneously refusing to take responsibility for my own actions or lack thereof. 

 

 

I'm floored by your lack of compassion. I see you want some because you knew people and lived in the area, but it honestly doesn't come close to what this mother has been going through. It boggles my mind you can't see that. 

[Katy]

I'm floored by your lack of compassion. I see you want some because you knew people and lived in the area, but it honestly doesn't come close to what this mother has been going through. It boggles my mind you can't see that. 

 

That isn't what I was saying at all. I've noticed a pattern on the board that if people don't agree with the judgment of someone else, they warn they'll get tested with the same thing.  It's like calling down disaster on them.  I was responding to that, not comparing myself to this woman.  And yes, I have noticed the same phenomenon, but frankly no one here has any idea the level of mental health troubles and suicides that have already taken place in my family, so stop making assumptions about what I have and haven't experienced or what my kids have or haven't been through.

 

Never mind. I knew not liking this book, being honest about the fact that I'm irked by it, that it feels like manipulative behavior to me from this author who both wants compassion, admiration, and refuses to be responsible for herself...  some people don't get it.  It is what it is, though I seriously doubt I'm the only person who she rubs the wrong way.

[Katy]

The financial thing is from the bottom of the book description on Amazon.  It says, "Author profits from the book will be donated to research and to charitable foundations focusing on mental health issues."

 

It doesn't say which charitable foundations, or if the author earns a living from any of them.

[PeacefulChaos]

 

 

Never mind. I knew not liking this book, being honest about the fact that I'm irked by it, that it feels like manipulative behavior to me from this author who both wants compassion, admiration, and refuses to be responsible for herself...  some people don't get it.  It is what it is, though I seriously doubt I'm the only person who she rubs the wrong way.

 

I think I just read the whole thing differently than you did.  

In what I read (which is the article linked), I never got the impression that she was trying to... what's the word... excuse what he did.  I didn't read it as her trying to say that it wasn't her fault - I read it as her dealing with the guilt, the what could I have done different and what should I have done different, and trying to go from there because really, hindsight is 20/20 and no amount of realizing those things is going to change the past.  

 

Also, I didn't see others trying to pretend that they found her completely blameless.  I'm sure there are things she could have done differently - but what point is there is pointing that out now?  (Not talking to you directly, just in general re: finding fault in things after it's too late)  

 

It could be that I missed these things, or they weren't included in that article, or that you're particularly sensitive to the situation because you were nearby while I was a couple states away.  It didn't really hit me that hard.  It didn't make a huge difference in my daily life.  

 

Either way, I honestly think that different people are looking at it totally differently.  I personally will be interested to read the book, though I think it will be hard to get through.  And I wasn't there with this woman as her son grew up, and I can't judge anything I wasn't there for.  I just can't.  It's not in me to even care to figure all that out, much less try to.  :)

[eternalsummer]

profits are not the same as proceeds, but maybe she meant proceeds

[Carol in Cal.]

The financial thing is from the bottom of the book description on Amazon.  It says, "Author profits from the book will be donated to research and to charitable foundations focusing on mental health issues."

 

It doesn't say which charitable foundations, or if the author earns a living from any of them.

Does it say or imply 'ALL author profits?'

[Katy]

Does it say or imply 'ALL author profits?'

 

no

[Miss Peregrine]

Yeah, profit is after costs have been paid. I doubt she's writing the book for free.

[imagine.more]

I read Dave Cullen's book, Columbine. That was enough. I don't think I can read this one.

 

Those of us who were in high school in 1999 have those two kids' names burned into our brains. We remember the grainy security footage of a school set up like the ones we were in every day. We remember the way teachers and principals scrutinized the way kids dressed and how smart they were, desperately trying to find potential killers in waiting. We remember lockdowns and looking for potential exits or hiding spots, before formal protocols and drills started. We remember that school post-Columbine was different, that it was no longer a joke to think that certain classmates were ticking bombs. It was a real possibility.

 

That experience plus years of research and dialogue about mental health and gun control and cultural violence gives us an edge as now-parents, but makes it easy to Monday morning quarterback the decisions and parenting choices made pre-Columbine. And unfortunately, there is likely a tragedy yet to unfold, catching us off guard while we are busy securing the guns and meds and Internet access and asking our teens what should be the right questions but in the end aren't right enough.

 

That's the part about parenting that keeps me up at night.

I can relate to this.

 

she's in much the same position as the wife of the amish school shooter - except the amish embraced her into their community as another victim.

Yes, hearing that woman speak in person was inspiring and heartbreaking. I cannot even imagine. If only this woman could experience the same forgiveness and welcoming as the mother of the amish shooter did.

 

I was in 9th grade when Columbine happened. The year before a boy in my grade was killed by a boy in my husband's grade during a bus stop fight. The years after Columbine were full of bomb threats and the (for our affluent suburban school) typical suicide attempts in the bathroom. Several years before all of this a young man had shot and killed himself during class in our high school....my friends' cousin was there and wouldn't leave his room for 2 weeks. The fact is those 2 particular school shooters were not as unusual as we'd like to think. It was and is a violent time. I remember someone dropping a metal lunch tray accidentally one day at lunch and in 2 seconds flat all 300-ish students were under the tables thinking it had been a gun shot. That's the kind of atmosphere we lived in at school post-Columbine.

 

Not surprisingly, a large number of mine and DH's peers are opting to homeschool. Columbine is very tied up in that decision for many of us. I'd love to read the mother's story in depth but I think I'd need a bit more separation from those events and that time period to handle it emotionally.

[gardenmom5]

I can relate to this.

 

 

Yes, hearing that woman speak in person was inspiring and heartbreaking. I cannot even imagine. If only this woman could experience the same forgiveness and welcoming as the mother of the amish shooter did.

 

I

 

I've felt the same way.  the amish were truly inspiring in their true christlike love for the wife.  I'm very sorry sue klebold didn't  experience that.  she's between a rock and a hard place.

[jelbe5]

Where is your compassion for me?

 

No, I wouldn't throw a stone. But I also wouldn't be selling a book about the things I did wrong, the ways I could have prevented this, while simultaneously refusing to take responsibility for my own actions or lack thereof.

I believe Katy's feelings are perfectly justified. She was psychologically wounded in a way many may (hopefully) never understand. She is not necessarily wishing ill on Sue Klebold. She just would like her to fade into obscurity.

 

I have compassion for the parents. I don't know exactly what they went through. I also respect the feelings of those who never want to hear about these parents ever again. It re-opens old wounds and brings it all to the forefront again. And puts her in the spotlight. Personally, I will always remember the names of the murderes but I would be hard pressed to list the names of the victims who died or whose lives were shattered. That is very sad.

 

ETA - the fact that she used the word "harmed" instead of "murdered" is indicative of her struggle to completely acknowledge the reality. The young men were murderers - perhaps severely mentally ill but murderes nonetheless.

 

If I remember correctly there was a church who reached out to the Klebolds which performed the funeral service for their son. So there may have been a community that reached out to the parents after the fact.

 

I remember the love shown by the Amish to the family of the murderer of their children. While I would love to believe that I could forgive as I, as a Christian, am commanded I don't know if I could and I hope I never find out. I would probably never want to hear about the murderer or his family again. I don't think that is wrong.

Edited February 16, 2016 by jelbe5

[gardenmom5]

 . I would probably never want to hear about the murderer or his family again. I don't think that is wrong.

 

maybe the different perspective is having grown up abused (and all the fall-out of that) by a family member who we were raised to think was the cat's meow.  there is nothing anyone else can do that would be worse.  (including the guy who broke into my own home and assaulted me. that was nothing in comparison, and far, far easier to move-on from.)   

[GoodGrief]

It is so very, very difficult to find good mental health care, even if one is totally aware of the problem and parents and teen/young adult are open to receiving the care. Well, medications are less difficult to obtain, though they may or may not be appropriate, and likely will not be adequately monitored for effectiveness. But good luck finding quality, on-going, goal-oriented therapy.

 

We struggled tremendously finding care for our non-violent daughter, even with decent insurance, backgrounds as medical professionals, and having all the tools to research our options; even now we pay out of pocket for the not-quite-adequate care situation we found, and spent over 6 months on a waiting list to get her into it.

 

I became well aware of how much more difficult it would have been had our daughter been a son, and particularly if there was any indicator of violent tendencies.

 

And I also have had the experience of people automatically blaming me, as the mother, for my daughter's troubles. You develop a thick skin to an extent, though you are regularly "what-if"ing yourself too.

 

In the end though, it amazes me that any of our troubled youth become healthy in adulthood. The tools to help them are just not readily available.

 

I spoke with a mother in the grocery store today about her own struggles to find care for her daughter. She had tears in her eyes; she was grieving for the loss of her daughter's emotional health and grappling with the reality of the difficulty of finding help to achieve wellness. And, again, this is finding help for a non-violent young woman.

 

I have another dear friend who tried for years to get help for her son as he developed signs of mental illness. All hope is lost now. The prison system has him.

 

It's a huge problem, and I'm glad this mother is telling her story. I wish we could all tell our stories, as the problem is common, more common than most people realize. Maybe answers would become more readily apparent.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Gr8lander