TOG vs. Biblio Help! Losing my mind

[homeschoolwarrior]

I'm needing advice.  We are really needing to get this decision made for several reasons.  However, I am going back and forth terribly!   We really like TOG, but I am worried about the work load for once we get to high school.  Does anyone know around how many hours a day on average a child would spend on the rhetoric level with TOG (specifically for non honors credits)?  I lean Charlotte Mason, and the idea of nonstop hours and hours of intense work at the rhetoric level is really intimidating me.  But, I am not sure TOG has to be that intense.  I'm wondering if we did just the basic credits in high school maybe it wouldn't be so much.....?

 

Biblioplan scares me because it seems like maybe it isn't meaty enough for rhetoric.  And while I don't want to consume my children with academics, I do want to provide them a really strong base.  I guess I am wanting the best of both worlds, the lesser time commitment of Biblio, with the academic excellence of TOG.  And, we tried Wayfarers, and it wasn't a fit :(

 

Any advice??  I'm going crazy with this.  

Edited February 12, 2016 by homeschoolwarrior

[Another Lynn]

This is more of a "bump" to the top of the page, because I don't know how much time a child would spend at the rhetoric level.  Plus, I'd say the answers would vary depending on how many credits they are working on with TOG (history and literature, of course, but are they also doing Bible/Worldview, Government, or others?).  An uninformed guess is that they would need to spend an hour / day for each credit (unless 1 credit is being earned over more than 1 year, such as government), and probably more than an hour for the literature/composition piece - which is typical of most high school work loads.  

 

So, I'll ask you a couple questions to think about instead.  :D   Are you more comfortable beefing up a program if you feel it needs it or cutting back from one (i.e. leaving food on the table so to speak)?  Do you like having a couple major spines to work off of or lots of different books?  Have you downloaded a 3 week sample from both programs and actually put down on paper what your week would look like with each one?  Have you spent time with the teacher notes in TOG's 3 week sample?  Do you feel overwhelmed or equipped when you read them?  Have you read the sample from Biblioplan's Companion?  Have you compared how both programs cover history?  How they cover literature?  What about composition?  Why does Biblioplan not seem like enough for rhetoric?  Do you know that TOG gives some guidance about different workloads for rhetoric literature (which works to cut if you're not calling it "honors," etc.)? 

 

Also, what ages are your dc now?  If they're grammar stage, I would either just use SOTW w/ Activity Guide for now, or if you want to spend more, take the plunge with Biblioplan or TOG for a year so you can get a feel for whether it's a good fit for you.  If they're logic stage, then again, I would say choose Biblioplan or TOG for one year and try it.  Switching between these two if you decide to is not a big deal, imho.  It's not like switching math programs. 

[bethben]

Yes to Sotw if your kids are younger.  Here is my experience.  I bought TOG (all 4 years) because I loved that it was multi-level and that I could use it through high school.  When my ds hit 6th grade dialectic, he was one of those kids who would not have this in depth discussion with me.  He really needed outside discussion with the material.  We really needed a co-op with like minded homeschoolers.  So, what we did was put him in the online TOG discussion groups.  He had one great teacher and one so-so teacher.  Now, he is in part time online school and we no longer use TOG.  I have found that it really needs more than mom and child for a discussion in those upper levels.  Especially if your child is a boy.  Maybe if I had a girl at that level right now it would be different, but from my experience and every other homeschooler with teen boys, it can be difficult.  I had a die-hard TOG friend who now has boys entering high school and is looking for something different that doesn't require so much of her time (she has boys also).  

 

Another aspect that I did like about TOG in theory was that I could study the upper level stuff so that I would have a good handle on it when my kids where that level.  That didn't happen either.  It's hard to spend time in study when you have a full home of elementary homeschoolers and just life.  Life got in the way and while I had good intentions it never worked.  

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I can't answer your question directly, but I think I can offer "food for thought." When my kids were little and we were first starting out, I used Konos. In the beginning, it was wonderful. As we went on in the year, however, the new wore off;and I became frustrated with it.

 

I must be clear. Konos is a terrific unit study curriculum; there is nothing wrong with it at all. I discovered that I was the problem! I struggled greatly with picking and choosing activities from a long list of possibilities. From then on, I focused on curricula that was more ready-made.

 

What is funny to me is that the first time I read about TOG, I downloaded the sample plans. I loved it! I really wanted to use TOG! I struggled with not buying it! The truth was that I recognized it was built much like Konos, and I knew that in the end it would not be the right thing for us.

 

I've used Biblioplan too at the middle school level. I mostly liked it, but I greatly disliked the companion text. Yes, it is colorful and looks appealing, but for me, it seemed boring... (ymmv).

 

It has taken years of trial and error, but what I've come to realize for us is that by high school, I'm tring to major on subjects my children have great interest in and minor on the other subjects. This doesn't mean that history, for example, isn't important. It just means that my dd loves English. My ds loves sciece. I'm going to try to push these subjects in high school. There is not time to do everything at max level. I have to choose school curricula wisely and realistically knowing that there are limited number of hours in a day for my DC to get work done. We won't even talk about extra-curricular activities!😂

 

I chose My Father's World for high school. We only do Ancient History and Lit (AHL) and World History and Lit (WHL). I use other stuff for American history, government, personal finance, and economics. Scheduling is the primary reason for that. For example, dd really wanted to take American lit/comp from her favorite teacher locally. It didn't make financial sense to buy MFW.

 

Not to muddy the waters, but you might take a look at MFW. Like TOG and Biblioplan, it integrates Bible, history, and lit. Lesson plans are written to the student, and the parent meets weekly to discuss material learned with student. It can be as involved or simple a discussion as you wish. There are no parent helps like TOG has, but none are needed. MFW seems to be more organized than Biblioplan. Honestly, MFW is a good middle ground between the two of them.

 

Sorry to be so long! I feel for what you are going through. It can be difficult to choose just the right plan for school. I hope this has helped just a little bit.

 

Edited for clarity. It's hard to get everything right picking away on my tablet!😊

Edited February 12, 2016 by Sweet Home Alabama

[kalusignan]

I looked at TOG and Biblioplan. TOG was way too confusing and just too much in general for me. I liked the idea of Biblioplan and have seriously considered it, but it is way too expensive for what you get imo.

 

If you lean Charlotte Mason, I would look at Wayfarers. That might be exactly what you're looking for. Good luck!

[freesia]

We use and like TOG. The history doesn't take more than an hour per day for my Ds. We do a literature lite online class which cuts some lit. I would say that takes about 4 hours a week. The we add writing--so Englush is maybe 6-7 hours a week in our house for our rhetoric student . Last year I did lit and writing without a class and tailored it to 5 hours a week.