How necessary is WWE?

[jens2sons]

I just purchased WWE1 and I had planned using it alongside FLL2 however I'm wondering how necessary WWE really is.  There is already copywork in FLL it seems every day.  If I am using SOTW and implementing the narrations, etc.  Why do I need to use WWE at all?  I am also using SYS and it has copywork too.  Am I missing something? I'm thinking that I want to return it.  

[UnlikelyHomeschoolingMama]

I think it depends on the child.  My daughter's auditory learning skills aren't great.  She has a really hard time verbally expressing herself.  In fact, I feel like she does better in writing than verbally (totally opposite of most kids).  WWE has helped her learn how to listen WELL, narrate effectively, and be concise in how she expresses her thoughts.  I honestly could have done other writing with her and she would probably be pretty good at it, but the listening and summarizing has been priceless for us.  We are also doing FLL, which I have found has helped her listening and verbal skills in a different way than WWE.  

 

Good luck with whatever you decide!!

[carriede]

It is but it isnt.

 

I'm using the WWE Instructor's Guide, not the workbook. And I'm using those guidelines with SOTW. So DS6 does his narrations about one section of our SOTW chapter and copywork from the first sentence of his narration (as instructed by the WWE guide for the week we're at).

 

I have him do his second weekly narration from a religious text we have.

 

I do have him do copywork for FLL and WWE, so he does copywork 4 times a week. I also have him analyze his copywork sentences (FLL isn't always full sentences) with whatever grammar knowledge he has (he currently underlines nouns, pronouns, and verbs in difference colors with his copywork).

 

So! His weekly schedule for LA is:

 

Monday - FLL lesson with associated copywork

Tuesday - SOTW narration with copywork from the first sentence of narration

Wednesday - FLL lesson with associated copywork

Thursday - narration with religious education book with copywork sentence that I choose from the reading

 

I plan on using the WWE IG next year too, but haven't read much into levels 3 and 4 yet to see if I'd prefer the workbook at that point (which he could hopefully then read/do by himself).

 

Hope that helps!

 

Eta, I skip the narration exercises in FLL since we do those with WWE.

Edited February 11, 2016 by carriede

[wendyroo]

My first grader is finishing up WWE1, and while we have liked it, I don't think is was necessary.  I could have incorporated more copywork and narration into other subjects and skipped the WWE1 workbook (with trying to juggle a bunch of littles, however, I'm personally glad the workbook did the legwork for me).  DS did like the narration selections, so a side benefit to the workbook is that DS was enticed into reading some of those books.

 

(As a side note, however, we jumped ship on FLL very early on.  It was simply too simplistic and repetitive for even my 4 year old.  Instead, I used The Sentence Family to introduce parts of speech to both my older boys and WWE1 for my older son to practice copywork and narration.)

 

The main reason I stuck with WWE1, however, was as practice for WWE2.  I wanted DS very familiar with the format and expectations as we continued through the series.  While WWE1 was simply copywork and narration, WWE2 and beyond start to introduce skills that I would have a hard time teaching without explicit guidance.  I'm more a STEM girl myself, so while I can intuitively teach my kids half a dozen different ways to multiply fractions, I need more hand holding when it comes to teaching them the nuts and bolts of strong summarizing and outlining.

 

Right in week 1 of WWE2, there is a note to instructors:

"Note To Instructor: As you can see, students cannot learn to summarize effectively until they are guided into recognizing the important elements of stories through careful questioning. Your questioning and conversation will help the student learn to discard unimportant details and keep only the central parts of the narrative."

 

WWE1 has gotten DS ready for the next step and WWE2 will guide us through it.

 

Wendy

[Butter]

WWE builds.  So while WWE1 looks silly and unneeded, once you progress higher you'll see that the skills have built on each other.  We skip the optional stuff in FLL since we use WWE.  FLL isn't going to give you a full writing curriculum and WWE isn't going to give you a full grammar curriculum, but they both have some crossover, duplication, and reinforcement.

[WahM]

WWE builds. So while WWE1 looks silly and unneeded, once you progress higher you'll see that the skills have built on each other. We skip the optional stuff in FLL since we use WWE. FLL isn't going to give you a full writing curriculum and WWE isn't going to give you a full grammar curriculum, but they both have some crossover, duplication, and reinforcement.

I completely agree with everything here.

[redsquirrel]

They were written separately, FLL 1&2 before before WWE. Just do the grammar lessons in FLL and skip the 'enrichment' or copywork etc.  That disappears from FLL after level 2 and it is only grammar.  Together they make a great intro to language arts. 

 

Also, if you have a kid, like mine, who was fine with the oral work in FLL, but wasn't ready for the mechanical parts of copywork (my hand is gonna fall off and I'm gonna die!!!) then it is fine to just use FLL, skipping the copywork etc, and then introduce WWE1 in year 2, while continuing on with FLL2. They don't have to be done in the same year, is what I am trying to say, lol. You can split them up if it works for your kid.

 

[blondchen]

WWE builds.  So while WWE1 looks silly and unneeded, once you progress higher you'll see that the skills have built on each other.  We skip the optional stuff in FLL since we use WWE.  FLL isn't going to give you a full writing curriculum and WWE isn't going to give you a full grammar curriculum, but they both have some crossover, duplication, and reinforcement.

This, exactly.

 

WWE is an excellent program for teaching narration and writing in an incremental and systematic way. It's hard to see the value of that in Level 1 (I didn't at the time), but once you get into Level 2 the effectiveness of the approach becomes clearer. Both DD and I got a bit bored with WWE1, so we only did the first half and then took a break from it for a while. After dabbling in another program that ended up being a poor fit, I went to the end-of-year assessment for WWE1 just to see how DD would do, and she aced it, so I put her into WWE2, where she is thriving. In deciding to continue with WWE after all, I had determined that this is a skill, so even if it's boring sometimes, that's okay. It only takes a few minutes per lesson, and it gets the job done. That said, we have found WWE2 to be much more engaging than WWE1 and we're very happy with it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

If you are doing the same types of things outside of that then no.

 

I don't recall FLL having that much, but it has been years since I have looked at it.  I didn't do narrations in SOTW and WWE.  I just used WWE.  If I had done them with SOTW, I would not have also used WWE.

 

 

[redsquirrel]

If you are doing the same types of things outside of that then no.

 

I don't recall FLL having that much, but it has been years since I have looked at it.  I didn't do narrations in SOTW and WWE.  I just used WWE.  If I had done them with SOTW, I would not have also used WWE.

 

See, and now we did use WWE and SOTW and I always did the narrations for both. I have always been in the 'the more narration the better' camp. But that's just me.  That is what I like about the materials, you can make them work for your family.

[KatBowie]

Anyone use the workbook that comes with SOTW and use that instead of WWE?  Would that be "enough".  I have 2 boys and writing is not their favorite...but I want them to know how to do it well anyway.   We are trying to fit SO much into a day and something has to go...so either WWE or the SOTW workbooks. 

[Kat w]

WWE builds. So while WWE1 looks silly and unneeded, once you progress higher you'll see that the skills have built on each other. We skip the optional stuff in FLL since we use WWE. FLL isn't going to give you a full writing curriculum and WWE isn't going to give you a full grammar curriculum, but they both have some crossover, duplication, and reinforcement.

I agree too. WWE is no something I'd want to skip. It's an important step to learning to write and write well.

 

As for the redundancy , you could skip, as others have said, any portions in fll that feels like more if the same bc wwe specifically targets the writer in them, Nd yes, builds.

 

You could do the narrations in SOTW only on say, the American history part? I don't know what level you are on, but if ancient maybe the part that pertains to Bible, or w/e you want to make sure she's 'got'.

 

I would be very hesitant to skip wwe. It gradually and gently takes them into being good writers.

 

I would just skip some of the other things in fll and SOTW narrations.

[2_girls_mommy]

I never used it. I used the suggestions from WTM and did it across the curriculum and the writing exercises in R&S since we were using it anyway. I never had a problem with writing.

[Rosie_0801]

Also, if you have a kid, like mine, who was fine with the oral work in FLL, but wasn't ready for the mechanical parts of copywork (my hand is gonna fall off and I'm gonna die!!!) then it is fine to just use FLL, skipping the copywork etc, and then introduce WWE1 in year 2, while continuing on with FLL2. They don't have to be done in the same year, is what I am trying to say, lol. You can split them up if it works for your kid.

 

Agreed. My dd is doing WWE1 with FLL3, with WWE done double time because she's that bit older.

[urbannaive]

The excerpts! The great literature choices, starting in level 1 and for us all the way through level 3! This to me was THE number one, utmost important aspect of WWE and I developed a strong liking to the book and trust toward Mrs. Bauer because of how her choices hit my heart. I gleaned MOST of our readings from these writing lessons. Her carefully chosen literature pieces aimed a direct cupid arrow at my students' hearts and I am grateful for that. I decided to home school having, really, no qualification to do it, at a great disadvantage not being born nor raised in the U.S., having absolutely no formal English language *arsenal*, no deep knowledge of this culture, no familiarity with school system requirements, and these lessons allowed me to start as IF I have a grip and a well established foot in the language. Through it I have succeeded to position myself in the heart of the *able* who can teach their kids! This program, which appears simple, has put fortified foundation at our feet.

 

HOWEVER, if your child can narrate well verbally and in writing, and YOU are.. familiar and comfortable with the English language to such a degree that you can pull out great dictation pieces to demonstrate grammar points out of magnificent books on your own, let's also say that you are already very educated yourself and have enough familiarity with the classics to choose your students readings and if you are also resourceful regarding teaching methods, organized enough to put together your own lessons then hey, you will do great without this seemingly *monotonous*, simple curriculum.. I say seemingly because it can feel and look this way until you do the whole journey, collect your pearls along the way and look at the results on your kids standardized tests.

 

And in the end all I really want is to ENCOURAGE you to do what's RIGHT for YOU. Omit, replace, skip and change things around and make everything well tailored to fit your EXACT needs. You are the best and ONLY judge of whether or not your child needs it. Be brave and take your home school expedition to a happy place where your world of words has been built to your liking.

 

My best.

[Kat w]

Well, I think it's important and here's why.

 

I use fll, wwe and SOTW (SOTW in smaller doses BC NY guys are LC)

 

Swb made wwe specifically for reaching the eventual writer to ...write.

Writing is very important weather you kiddos are college bound ir not. You use it in business etc.

 

I know SOTW does narrations too.

If you open both books , wwe and SOTW, Apple for apples....you get a bigger bang *for writing* buck with wwe.

 

WWE is written *for* the beginning writer.

SOTW is written as it pertains to history with history being the focus.

 

That may sound like semantics or splitting hairs but, its not really. To develop good writers..writers that won't have the trouble that many college kids have...wwe is your book.

 

SOTW, history, it's facts, how it has influenced the world esp the Western world...that's it's focus. Not the writer ( though she does include a good bit of that in SOTW,) it'll be scattered and not a systematic build of skills nessecary for the person learning to write .

 

WWE takes you incrementally thru the steps in the most direct route, to writing.

 

That's a marked difference than history being the focus...wirh writing skills thrown in.

Big difference in fact.

 

I would say, stick with wwe and skip the narrations of history.

You can have them write some captions for the pictures of sotw, or say...read some of sotw, draw their own picture of it and write a few sentences about their picture.

 

WWE is a systematic ,incremental writing program. Specifically FOR writing.

 

While SOTW narrations are nice, they don't take you through the essential steps a writer needs to master writing.

 

I would never take out wwe. Take out the SOTW narrations :)

 

Copy work, ID stay with wwe too because....she again, picks the selections based in skills they will build on later. If you look at them compared to SOTW and pull out a wws...you'll see the difference.

 

It's a big difference , though it seems subtle. It's not really.

It's important for the emergent writer .

[EKT]

I agree with lots of other previous posters who believe WWE is necessary and worthwhile. I don't use SOTW, but we do use WWE and FLL. We do everything in WWE, and then do only the actual grammar in FLL. (So, I just use FLL for the actual grammar rules and the other useful stuff like learning your address, etc. I skip lots of the copywork and some of the picture narrations, etc. because there is overlap.)

 

What I find so beneficial about WWE is the way it has trained my daughters' brains to think about writing. It has trained them to always answer questions in complete sentences (even in everyday life) and I feel like I am seeing order and organization in their thinking in all areas of academics. This year we are incorporating some Brave Writer stuff into our language arts schedule (because I love so much about the Brave Writer philosophy), but I will never give up WWE because I'm seeing it build a solid foundation in academic writing in my children. 

 

I wish I had it in me to just use the WWE guidebook and pull my own copywork and dictations, etc. from our read alouds, but I just don't have the time to do that, so we happily use the WWE workbooks. We've had success with them so far and I agree with the others who mentioned the way the skills build on one another over the years. 

[Kat w]

I agree with lots of other previous posters who believe WWE is necessary and worthwhile. I don't use SOTW, but we do use WWE and FLL. We do everything in WWE, and then do only the actual grammar in FLL. (So, I just use FLL for the actual grammar rules and the other useful stuff like learning your address, etc. I skip lots of the copywork and some of the picture narrations, etc. because there is overlap.)

 

What I find so beneficial about WWE is the way it has trained my daughters' brains to think about writing. It has trained them to always answer questions in complete sentences (even in everyday life) and I feel like I am seeing order and organization in their thinking in all areas of academics. This year we are incorporating some Brave Writer stuff into our language arts schedule (because I love so much about the Brave Writer philosophy), but I will never give up WWE because I'm seeing it build a solid foundation in academic writing in my children.

 

I wish I had it in me to just use the WWE guidebook and pull my own copywork and dictations, etc. from our read alouds, but I just don't have the time to do that, so we happily use the WWE workbooks. We've had success with them so far and I agree with the others who mentioned the way the skills build on one another over the years.

It's funny you would mention your child seeing the order and organization and such.

We struggle over here...lots.

 

I've been working with them...whew.. It could seem like none of it was doing any good.

 

All of a sudden out if nowhere few days ago my dd12 that has had so much reading trouble...picked up a book and wound up reading 2 and a half stories from different books.

 

Then today?? Now, I haven't been able to get any details out if him. Trouble with what kind of details etc.

 

He wrote a book!

Pictures, a story and it was a story that he completely made up himself!

It was complete sentences , well constructed sentences. Used adjectives ( he could t rember what an adj. Was last week lol)

I mean....it was like a page off of wwe! Beautiful and all around very well done.

Visualizing and verbalizing helped a ton, but...I attribute his being able to write as well as he did, to wwe.

 

He has severe LC, so this for him was like...4th of July lol. ;)

 

If you kep teach-in wwe, you will see the fruit later. Nothing has gotten through to him.

The systematic incremental approach, you just can't beat.

I know it seems like...woe...what is this really doing for me?

 

Well, it does. One day you'll notice..hey, my kiddos a pretty good writer :)

Edited August 13, 2016 by Kat w

[NancyNellen]

Well, since many of us old folk have been homeschooling with The Well-Trained Mind since before WWE was written, I would say it is not necessary. I began homeschooling in 2001 and followed the recommendations of the 1st Ed. of TWTM. We did use FLL and lots and lots of narration and copy work (more than what is in FLL.) We began Classical Writing in grade 3.

 

That system worked brilliantly. So much so, that even after WWE came out I refused to switch up what we do. I have graduated 2 who are now in college. They each scored perfectly on the English portion of the SAT. I say that simply to point out that any approach, done consistently and systematically, will be successful.

 

So, WWE works great for many people, but it is not the only right way - just like all other subjects and curriculum. Go with what is working for you and yours.

 

Nancy

[aprilleigh]

In the beginning I didn't have him write his own narrations for history most of the time. We did WWE four days a week, then I picked one from other subjects for the 5th day - sometimes it was history, sometimes it was grammar, and sometimes it was from bible study. We rarely did more than that until about halfway through the year when it was easier for him to do more writing.

[ALB]

I didn't use WWE with my dd and she was able to go into WWS 1 in 5th grade with no problems.  BUT- we did do extensive copy work, dictation, and narration from our history and literature.  

With my ds in 3rd grade I am giving WWE another chance, but I'm not sure whether we will stick with it.  I like to choose the passages we work with from books we are already reading, but I also appreciate the ease of having it all planned out.

 

[tori729]

I didn't use WWE with my dd and she was able to go into WWS 1 in 5th grade with no problems.  BUT- we did do extensive copy work, dictation, and narration from our history and literature.  

With my ds in 3rd grade I am giving WWE another chance, but I'm not sure whether we will stick with it.  I like to choose the passages we work with from books we are already reading, but I also appreciate the ease of having it all planned out.

 

I might end up starting a new thread on this, but since you mentioned it:

I haven't done any WWE with my 3rd grader - just the dictations from FLL and he was doing HWT up until now. 

What level should I start him on with WWE? I might do the assessment with him and see but I'm thinking maybe level 2. He is in FLL3

[CAtoVA]

I started WWE Level 2 with my 3rd grader this year and she has not done any WWE before. With FLL she is in Level 3. She dislikes most everything "school" but today she said she likes the "stories" in WWE 2. In terms of challenge level 2 is a fine fit. Try it!