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What would you do "Math"?


nitascool
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I have a 7.5yo who continues to have a problem in math. He's on par with his peers, but it is a struggle for him. We have tried, and hated, Saxon math. He just didn't get the approach. Though he did the 1st grade book he still added using the counting up method. Subtraction was just not happening.

 

We tried memorizing addition and subtraction facts through several different forms of medium (Board and online games, flash cards, cartoons, pencil and paper, math wraps). He gets them at the time, but doesn't translate into next time.

 

We switched to Singapore. He did books 1A through 2B twice each and still is not getting it. He understands the concepts just fine, but struggles to get the answers.

 

For instance he understands place values, but takes more then a minute to figure out what 15+3= is. He knows how to skip count by 2's through 5's, but has trouble translating that into 5x3=. He thinks he's "dumb" (his words), because math comes so hard for him. I'm inclined to believe that we just haven't found his math method yet. Currently we are going over addition and subtraction facts in 10 min. sessions 4 times a day. He's getting faster... but really its just faster at counting not actually adding and subtracting or even memorization of the facts. We are thinking about Math-U-See, but I don't want to waist my money if it's not the right answer.

 

He's working at a 2nd grade level in math computations, with word problems he is working at a 3rd grade level.

 

So what would you do with a dc like this?

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I'd suggest Math U See, which we use along with Singapore Math. However, my kids don't struggle with it, my dd, 9, just needs more than one approach. It is mastery and works on one main concept per level, which I think can be much more helpful for those who struggle. The newer version really is improved, with more review. I also recommend taking the MUS placement level on their website. Due to the fact that the reps are individuals and that homeowners insurance forbids even one customer stepping on their property (learned this from my rep) reps who live in your area cannot allow you to go pick up the goods, but I think the goods are well worth the investment for a child who has struggled with both Saxon (which is not my style) and Singapore (which we like.) You can often buy the DVDs and TM's used, but may need to buy the student set new. You don't need the supplemental manipulatives set unless you're teaching two at once or are moving on to Algebra, but you will need the basic set as cuisenaire rods are different colours. It's not graded, but goes by the Greek Alpahbet.

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Have you considered Professor B? It comes either as a scripted book or a DVD. He is fantastic about explaining step by step so you understand it. I was always dumb as a stump in math (I remember crying over addition/subtraction flash cards in first grade), and even I am learning things about math I never knew.

 

Neither of my children, even my distracted daughter, has inherited my math phobia. Woohoo! And, my math-y husband says it checks out well from a technical standpoint. He can look at an explanation and tell exactly where Professor B is going, where I can never tell until we get there.

 

My 11yo DD is just about to start book 3 this week. My 9yo DS is in the middle of book 2.

 

Professor B Math

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Sounds like he just needs practice and isn't stumbling conceptually. I know this sounds too simple but what about flash-cards and adding in a homemade worksheet where he can compete against the clock for finishing say 10 problems in 60 seconds? Do this with the same set of problems 4-5 times in a sitting daily. I know this procedure worked with my son when learning times tables. Doesn't sounds to me like he's lacking anything but maybe more practice and confidence... Reward his success with treats like M&M's and see if the time improves. Personally, I'd try these things at this age before switching math programs. Singapore is excellent and the one thing many of us have learned the hard way is NOT to jump around from program to program but provide consistency and daily work. Good luck! I bet it will "gel" soon.

 

Mary

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He's getting faster... but really its just faster at counting not actually adding and subtracting or even memorization of the facts.

 

I stopped this in my daughter by explicitly telling her, "Hey, if you can remember what you said the last time you saw this card you don't have to count it up, you can just say it." It was as if she thought that the whole point of arithmetic was to go through the procedure each and every time whether you need to or not. And how are they supposed to know otherwise?

 

I reduced her problem set down to three addition problems. She would count on only if she couldn't remember the answer. When she had rapid recall of those three I'd add one more. We did "concepts", we did manipulatives, we did coins, beads, ducks, blocks, legos, we did number bonds, we did every drill sheet in Christian Liberty Press, and then went back and did it again because it didn't stick. We did Rod and Staff drill booklet twice. We did Flashmaster.

 

When she started learning addition with sums 11-18 the same thing happened. She ran out of worksheets before she had automatic recall. I got a Saxon 2nd grade student book and ripped out all the drill sheets and use those. Don't know how the Saxon kids can memorize it so fast but with mine I have to let her work a single row of problems, cover up the answers, have her repeat the problems and their answers to me orally and she can't do it. We go through the same row of problems five or ten times before she can "remember" the answers for those five problems. Then I add on another row. Then when it's all done I program the Flashmaster to give her only those problems that she did on the Saxon drill sheet. The next day I have her review the Saxon drill sheet, redo the problems in Flashmaster, preview the new problems, and then we repeat the same long slow process with the second drill sheet.

 

She has no problem with "concept." She makes a group of ten by subtracting from one digit and adding to the other. Its just that she needs, tons and tons or practice to get this to be automatic. She is finally learning that her conceptual approach is a tool that one uses when one's memory fails them but that she should try to remember it without going through all the steps.

 

I am planning on keeping her in Singapore math. Considering her approach to math of all people she is most in need of being exposed to multiple approaches to problems. I think, with mine at least, that it's going to take longer in the short run but in the long run it will pay off.

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Thank you for your input.

 

I think I will have a talk with ds about the memorization process. I intend to continue with SM 3a when ds is ready, but I know that he needs something more before going on to the next level. He's already done 2a & 2b WB, TB and IP twice. While he has the concepts and can "do" the problems perfectly he cannot do them quickly. So I know that he is not yet ready to move on to 3a.

 

He finished the second go around with SM in September. We've been doing repetitious work with flash cards, traditional worksheets, number bonds, multimedia math games, board games and math wraps.

 

So I'm really looking for something that wouldn't be too expensive that will teach math to be more automatic for him. I was thinking MUS but it's a little pricey for a trial. Of course it's a lot less pricey then tutoring which is our next recourse at this point.

 

I think we're going to go ahead and get the Math-U-See. I like the look of Professor B, but the price is a little steep for a us.

 

Thanks again.

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You know... one thing that really helped DS with math facts was using an abacus. There are curricula for learning on a Japanese abacus (soroban) but we just jumped in headfirst with a couple online resources. I made an abacus for grocery shopping with pipe cleaners for rods, and from then on out, DS's job was to keep track of the bill as we shopped. He started out counting up everything (EVERYTHING! ugh!!) but quickly learned some of the straightforward stuff like +9 is +10-1 and +8 is +10-2.... and that soon translated back into written math too.

 

I'm sure he still counts up sometimes, but he's quiet about it and his speed is such that it doesn't interfere with his work or frustrate him excessively. For that matter - I still count up sometimes, so it doesn't worry me too much as long as he's efficient about it.

 

Another thing you could look for is Fingermath, which is basically an abacus of your hands. Again it doesn't necessarily prevent counting up, but it makes it very efficient. :)

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You know it sounds to me like there are two separate issues. One is that he doesn't have his facts memorized. I've personally dealt with that by continuing to work on facts, but also moving on to more interesting math. I know many people believe you shouldn't move on until the facts are down, but it has worked for us and eventually ds got the facts down.

 

It also sounds like he is having some issues with really understanding some of the stuff though. You said:

 

"He knows how to skip count by 2's through 5's, but has trouble translating that into 5x3=."

 

Unfortunately I don't really know what would help him. I've only used Singapore with my dc, but maybe MUS would help. Is he a visual learner?

 

Sorry I'm not much help,

Jean

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