Anger in Autism and teenagers-cross post

[PeterPan]

Story, Zones can be done by an OT in the ps, yes.  If social is in his IEP, they can have someone do the socialthinking.com materials with him.  He has social in his IEP, yes?  It's not overkill to do private CBT *and* social thinking materials.  I'm just saying if he failed the pragmatics test and has social in his IEP, you can pressure for goals that result in him getting those services.  And once you're taking the scholarship, you have the ability to use those funds to GET AS MUCH AS YOU WANT.  You can say wow, social is our #1 problem, and you can put the whole $10K into social skills interventions.  Then you would just pay for his interventions.  

 

Right now you're limited by what the ps will do.  Once you switch over to JP, that isn't how it works.  You can have all you want and prioritze how you want.  You just have to have the goal for it into the IEP to use the funding.  Once you have that, you're golden.

[PeterPan]

Texas, are you working on the meals and laundry thing?  My ds needs a lot of helps with the *steps* to do those things.  I've been working with him over a year now to teach him to put away his laundry.  We use visual schedules.  He had issues with sorting (an ASD thing), so just something as simple as sorting your laundry is hard for him.  I'm just starting to teach him to cook using a toaster oven.  Next I'll probably teach him to make salads using a box of mixed greens and a paring knife for the veges.  Really, if you can make a salad and bake some meat, you're pretty functional, at least in our house.  But I literally have to walk him through every single step.  

 

That's a rabbit trail and you're probably doing that.  I'm just saying if it wasn't on the radar, you could move it up.  

[PeterPan]

I would like to hear more about CBT too--the nuts and bolts. I have wondered what Storygirl is asking too about metacognition.

 

Meta-cognitition is the self-awareness you're always talking about.  It's EF.  So meta-cognitive, meta-linguistics, meta blah blah, all noticing the bits of things, noticing things.  So like with ds, he wasn't noticing the bits of speech and language.  That's meta-linguistics.  Not noticing the bits about body language (in ASD, in ADHD) is EF.  All considered EF.

[Tiramisu]

OK, ummmm, either I don't know how to phrase things or some are misreading my posts. I said I seek guidance from people like Temple Grandin. I did not say I expect my kids to turn into Temple Grandin, or Bill Gates, or anyone else.

 

As for Temple Grandin, she was bullied and made fun of. The aggression she showed was defending herself. Bullying and teasing is NOT OK or anyone's right. Temple Grandin was NOT and NEVER has been outside of these situations.

 

As you know, there is different neural processing that goes on in ASD, that can cause some people to act out. It can be a serious social problem like bullying, but it can also occur due to a less obvious kind of ostracism and a feeling of being left out that festers. It can be all kinds of things that trigger it. Sometimes it's hard to know exactly what with the mix of sensory, emotions, hormones. It doesn't have to come to an explosive level, but it can and it's good to be aware of.

 

The other thing to remember is that it's easy to focus on external meltdowns and aggression, but the same thing can be focused internally and sometimes parents don't realize it until damage is done, even suicide. I think with girls with Aspergers, the internalization of the negativity is probably more common than outward aggression, and it's also dangerous. 

 

My own dd seemed to have a tendency to physically act out going into puberty in a way that scared us for the future. Then she stopped and we were relieved. What we didn't realize is that actually indicated a change to more internalizing problems that resulted in depression. It was scary, especially because it took us so long to realize the extent of the problem. We did get fairly intensive help, and she is incredibly better now, without either either external or internal meltdowns. We didn't have a dx then, but it could have helped us if I had some knowledge ahead of time about what could happen in puberty.

 

ETA: If I could do it over again, I might try better to cultivate a relationship between my dd and someone other than me. Because dd had a lot of guilt about her behavior (not even acting out but just being difficult) and she hesitated to burden me with more. She has a family member that she can really talk to and a therapist, and both of those relationships have been very helpful.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Tiramisu

[Storygirl]

Story, Zones can be done by an OT in the ps, yes.  If social is in his IEP, they can have someone do the socialthinking.com materials with him.  He has social in his IEP, yes?  It's not overkill to do private CBT *and* social thinking materials.  I'm just saying if he failed the pragmatics test and has social in his IEP, you can pressure for goals that result in him getting those services.  And once you're taking the scholarship, you have the ability to use those funds to GET AS MUCH AS YOU WANT.  You can say wow, social is our #1 problem, and you can put the whole $10K into social skills interventions.  Then you would just pay for his interventions.  

 

Right now you're limited by what the ps will do.  Once you switch over to JP, that isn't how it works.  You can have all you want and prioritze how you want.  You just have to have the goal for it into the IEP to use the funding.  Once you have that, you're golden.

 

That's actually a good point. He did qualify for social in his IEP. The school we attend does not offer OT but he will be able to work with a SLP on pragmatics and general social skills. I'm not sure if the school will be willing to put emotional regulation goals in the IEP specifically, since they did not identify that as a need on his ETR, but we shall see. I'll definitely ask about it. Our insurance will cover quite a bit of OT, so if we can't address it through the school, we can go private. I don't think his scholarship monies will cover everything we want for him, but having good insurance will help close that gap a bit.

 

Thanks, texasmama, for the information about qualifications of CBT providers. I know more of what to look for now.

[Guest]

nm

Edited February 10, 2016 by Guest

[texasmama]

Texas, are you working on the meals and laundry thing?  My ds needs a lot of helps with the *steps* to do those things.  I've been working with him over a year now to teach him to put away his laundry.  We use visual schedules.  He had issues with sorting (an ASD thing), so just something as simple as sorting your laundry is hard for him.  I'm just starting to teach him to cook using a toaster oven.  Next I'll probably teach him to make salads using a box of mixed greens and a paring knife for the veges.  Really, if you can make a salad and bake some meat, you're pretty functional, at least in our house.  But I literally have to walk him through every single step.  

 

That's a rabbit trail and you're probably doing that.  I'm just saying if it wasn't on the radar, you could move it up.  

I have worked on him being able to do simple meal preparation.  He is very low energy, and his academics and basketball take most of his available time and energy.  So what happens on a practical level is that he has none left to prepare his own meals.  Without me putting three hots (or colds) a day in front of him, he will eat from a bag of tortilla chips until he is not hungry anymore.  He and I essentially play a game of chicken (not intentional on his part), and he almost always wins because I cannot abide by the thought of him eating nothing but tortilla chips and dry cereal all day.  His dad brings him slushies from Sonic a couple of times a week, and I do not want to live with a growing, 6'3" athletic teen who has eaten nothing but slushies, tortilla chips, and chex cereal.  So I feed him.  His younger brother will often make an easy meal for all three youngers if I am not there so he will eat that - gf chicken nuggets and fries, for instance.  For a time, I kept frozen, homemade breakfast burritos for him to microwave and eat for snacks.  He eats a large amount of food but will go without and actually lose weight without me putting food in front of him.  He is less than 150 pounds at 6'3" so this is not desirable.  When he was ten, he was asking his little sister (five at the time) to make him sandwiches, as well as his little brother.  I had to instruct them to stop enabling him not to make his own sandwiches.  Preparing food is a lot of effort for him. 

 

Laundry will come later. IMO, cooking (and nutrition) is a much more complex and involved task than doing laundry so I think he can accomplish this fairly easily once we launch in on it.  

 

Essentially, I have chosen to provide extra supports so he can put his energy into his academics, competitive sport, and social relationships.  Each year, I hand over a bit more responsibility to him.  He is managing two online classes with almost no help from me at this point.  With one, I have no involvement at all (Spanish), and for the other (Geometry), my help is limited to email interactions with the teacher at his request and printing the materials he needs on a weekly basis.  I began the year heavily involved with Spanish and backed myself out.  (Not the actual work but the mechanics of scanning and turning in assignments.)  Next year, he will be with the same math teacher (Jann in TX), and I will transition out of printing his work and having emails come to me.  He will get the emails.  Remember that he is not 2E - he is 1E with LDs so all work takes him a really long time, 2-3 times as long as it would take most people.  

 

I don't know if I am doing it all in the ideal way, but he has responded well.  I am mostly feeling my way through this one year at a time.  He attends open gym and youth group at a local church at the request of a bball team/co-op friend.  His brother goes, too.  He goes every other Saturday to volunteer passing out food at the church food ministry for four hours with his dad.  When we volunteered with the Humane Society, he went once a week with us and played with the animals.  His younger brother uses the riding mower and has done so for a solid year, since he was 12.  Ds15 is not doing this.  :)  His instincts, coordination, and ability to make split second decisions are not what they need to be in order to operate this machinery.  I expect that they will be some day.  

 

Long answer to your short question.  :)

[PeterPan]

Texas, your tradeoffs make a lot of sense.  Thanks for explaining it.  :)

[chiguirre]

What a mercy!  You mentioned you think maybe psychiatrists don't have that many tools to help this group of patients.  I can tell you that, in my experience with a family member, when there's the funding, there is more than can be done.  My family member sees a psychiatric nurse practitioner weekly for an hour.  That has allowed them to talk through issues and get new perspectives.  I'm not sure how common PNPs are.  I know this one is the bees knees, and it's sorta like the difference between any other NP and MD, where they're going to slow down and have more time.  And that's every single week.  

 

The family member goes to group therapy sessions every day, Mon-Fri, very religiously.  They have classes on mindfulness and help them to carry it over at home.  Mindfulness, done for just 10-15 min a day, can up EF by 30%!!!  EF includes self-regulation.  So I'm saying when the lid is off the budget, when you're in a situation with unlimited care (not reality for most people, sigh, and you wouldn't want to go through what this person had to go through to GET that unlimited care), that's the kind of stuff they do.  Multiple hours of group sessions a day, mindfulness, and weekly PNP care.  And with that and enough meds that there are physical side effects (which no one wants for their 18 yo), this person is stable.  They can be gotten unstable, but for the most part they're stable.  

 

And I explain that, because to me it's like wow, we're not succeeding yet in our home with this mindfulness, but for this other family member it has actually been a really strong component!  Not the sole thing, but like this drip drip of techniques and things adding together to make a functional person.  And the PNP, ok, can we find a relationship like that, before 18, with someone this person can talk things through with and accept?  

 

I don't know.  Just thinking out loud.  I do think there is more, but I don't know how most people GET that more or get access to that more.

GW is not very verbal. He can tell you he's hungry or if something hurts or if it's time to do something or express a preference. He can't do talk therapy.

 

GW does do yoga at ABA school. He loves it and I know that he uses it to calm down at school. Unfortunately, in GW world, yoga belongs at school not at home.

[8filltheheart]

8Fiil, what have you and your DH done as a couple to maintain your relationship with one another?  Did your DH ever struggle with your son's differences early on?  

 

Heather, I didn't write about this earlier b/c it is a very painful story, but all day long I have had promptings that I needed to share her story.  So here it is.  

 

Six years ago when my ds was 18 and my friend from high school's ds was 19, she called me out of the blue.  I hadn't heard from her in years.  Her husband and mine were friends in high school and were friends on Facebook.  Dh had shared some of our experiences with our son with them.  My dh had told me that their ds was also on the spectrum and that they were having problems b/c he had just graduated and lost all of his services.

 

When she called me, she was in desperation.  Her ds was verbally abusive to her and very difficult to control.  Her dh had a job that kept him on the road a lot.  He was only home a couple days a week and their ds tended to be on better behavior when he was there.  She had tried to convince him that they needed to come up with a plan, but he played ostrich and did not believe that things were as bad as she was telling him.

 

She asked me for advice.  I gave what little guidance I had to give.  Mostly I could only listen to her and affirm that she was not alone in what she was going through.  I knew her words.  I knew her struggle.  But I was surrounded by people: my dh, my 6 other children at home in addition to ds.  Her oldest child had graduated from high school as was not at home any more.  She was mostly alone dealing with her ds.  I knew she was upset, but I didn't just how desperate she was.

 

2 weeks later she committed suicide.

 

I'm sharing it b/c it is her story.  A mom alone dealing with a very overwhelming situation.  One that her dh was not really willing to deal with.  No one listened or heard her cry of desperation, her need for help with her ds.   If anyone is feeling that overwhelmed, I pray they can find a local person to advocate for them.  Get counseling so that their dh's know just how serious the issues are.  B/c it can be very overwhelming and exhausting.  I think my friend was just so tired, she just didn't have the energy to deal with it anymore.  Some situations you just can't deal with alone.  You need your own advocate, not just one for your child.

[texasmama]

I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.  :(   :grouphug:

[Heathermomster]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

8Fill, I'm sorry about your friend.  

 

 

[Guest]

nm

Edited February 10, 2016 by Guest

[PeterPan]

Not to be morbid, but what happened to the ds after he was gone?  Did the dh then stay home?  Was the ds institutionalized?  

 

I don't want to say much, but let's just say your story definitely fits what people are dealing with, unfortunately.  And I think we've all wondered what would happen if we weren't here for whatever reason.

 

And yes, one of the hardest things about this is that whole dynamic where the dc puts in his mind that ONE PERSON is the one he obeys and everyone else is just complied with if it gets me what I wants.  It creates EXTREME conflict, EXTREME misunderstandings, EXTREME challenges.  Had this lady homeschooled or traditional schooled?  I only ask, because I've kind of received the implication that school solves that, and I don't think it does.  I hear about it from people whose kids are in school also.

[Storygirl]

I so wish that such tragedies didn't happen. I'm sorry.

 

[kbutton]

Meta-cognitition is the self-awareness you're always talking about.  It's EF.  So meta-cognitive, meta-linguistics, meta blah blah, all noticing the bits of things, noticing things.  So like with ds, he wasn't noticing the bits of speech and language.  That's meta-linguistics.  Not noticing the bits about body language (in ASD, in ADHD) is EF.  All considered EF.

 

I was wanting to know how much metacognition is required for CBT to be effective. I am kind of curious too how much metacognition is influenced by EF. I would think there are other factors as well, such as social understanding and IQ. I would think that if you don't have social understanding, you can see the bits but not know what they mean, for example. I am not convinced that noticing bits is the only part of it--I talk about self-awareness as a person knowing something about themselves in the context of other humans. One example is that a person might develop a feeling of self-consciousness in front of others when performing and things like that. I would think you can notice parts and pieces but assign a very different meaning to it if your social understanding is different, KWIM? I am thinking of specific examples that I'm not sharing about how someone with lower self-awareness applies a different set of rules to themselves. I don't think it's a problem with noticing bits. I don't think it's arrogance. it's that this person doesn't understand him or herself in the context of others. They do reflect on their thinking--if they didn't, then they would not have come up with the two different sets of rules, I don't think. 

[kbutton]

8, I am so very sorry about your friend. 

[texasmama]

IMO, CBT could be tailored to be effective with many people with EF challenges/ASD.  This is such a case by case situation, though, and the therapist would need to be very experienced in working with kids on the spectrum.  Some people would not benefit from CBT or a form of it.  

 

CBT might appeal to people on the spectrum because it is a fairly concrete and straightforward process.  It focuses on thoughts and beliefs which are negatively impacting feelings and behaviors/actions.  It does not rely on understanding the feelings and thoughts of others, as it is an introspective process.  It teaches people to challenge negative thought patterns/beliefs so they can change their feelings and behaviors.  It does not directly attack the feelings as the main goal.  It helps connect the dots between one's thoughts and behaviors.

 

All good psychotherapy will work with the client on what the client's goals are for himself.  When I worked with adolescents, I not infrequently had to hook them in during the rapport-building process because they had been dragged to therapy against their will by a parent.  The adolescent client needs to see the potential benefit of therapy in order to buy-in, just like an adult client would.  This is true for ASD clients and CBT.  There is probably a larger hurdle in hooking in an ASD adolescent, but not necessarily.  I've worked with some very resistant teens without ASD, and I found a way to work effectively with almost all of them.

 

As a tangential aside, one of my thoughts for the future for my professional self (which is currently in hibernation) is to offer a social skills group for ASD teens/kids and not charge an arm and a leg for it.

[8filltheheart]

Not to be morbid, but what happened to the ds after he was gone?  Did the dh then stay home?  Was the ds institutionalized?  

 

I don't want to say much, but let's just say your story definitely fits what people are dealing with, unfortunately.  And I think we've all wondered what would happen if we weren't here for whatever reason.

 

And yes, one of the hardest things about this is that whole dynamic where the dc puts in his mind that ONE PERSON is the one he obeys and everyone else is just complied with if it gets me what I wants.  It creates EXTREME conflict, EXTREME misunderstandings, EXTREME challenges.  Had this lady homeschooled or traditional schooled?  I only ask, because I've kind of received the implication that school solves that, and I don't think it does.  I hear about it from people whose kids are in school also.

 

Elizabeth, her ds had been in ps his entire life.  It was when he graduated, lost his services, and was home all day that I think everything snowballed for her.  (As a side note, every adult Aspie we have met attended ps and received services through the school system.  I can't say any of them are better equipped for functioning as independent adults than ds and all of them struggle academically in a college setting.)

 

In terms of what happened, her husband originally started taking his ds with him on his business trips.  I am not sure if he changed jobs or whether he worked with his company to be able to work out of home, but that is what he ended up doing.  His ds tried to attend a CC.  I am not positive what he is currently doing since dh hasn't mentioned anything about him for a couple of yrs, but the last he mentioned was that the son was working a part-time job.

 

ETA: and thank you to everyone for their kind words.  

Edited February 10, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[MyLittleBears]

Heather, I didn't write about this earlier b/c it is a very painful story, but all day long I have had promptings that I needed to share her story.  So here it is.  

 

Six years ago when my ds was 18 and my friend from high school's ds was 19, she called me out of the blue.  I hadn't heard from her in years.  Her husband and mine were friends in high school and were friends on Facebook.  Dh had shared some of our experiences with our son with them.  My dh had told me that their ds was also on the spectrum and that they were having problems b/c he had just graduated and lost all of his services.

 

When she called me, she was in desperation.  Her ds was verbally abusive to her and very difficult to control.  Her dh had a job that kept him on the road a lot.  He was only home a couple days a week and their ds tended to be on better behavior when he was there.  She had tried to convince him that they needed to come up with a plan, but he played ostrich and did not believe that things were as bad as she was telling him.

 

She asked me for advice.  I gave what little guidance I had to give.  Mostly I could only listen to her and affirm that she was not alone in what she was going through.  I knew her words.  I knew her struggle.  But I was surrounded by people: my dh, my 6 other children at home in addition to ds.  Her oldest child had graduated from high school as was not at home any more.  She was mostly alone dealing with her ds.  I knew she was upset, but I didn't just how desperate she was.

 

2 weeks later she committed suicide.

 

I'm sharing it b/c it is her story.  A mom alone dealing with a very overwhelming situation.  One that her dh was not really willing to deal with.  No one listened or heard her cry of desperation, her need for help with her ds.   If anyone is feeling that overwhelmed, I pray they can find a local person to advocate for them.  Get counseling so that their dh's know just how serious the issues are.  B/c it can be very overwhelming and exhausting.  I think my friend was just so tired, she just didn't have the energy to deal with it anymore.  Some situations you just can't deal with alone.  You need your own advocate, not just one for your child.

 

 

:grouphug:  How awful. I'm so sorry!

[MomatHWTK]

Our local office offers social skills for teens, adolescent girls and elementary age kids. It is a very popular program, but I think it is easier to get the younger kids to attend. 

[chiguirre]

And yes, one of the hardest things about this is that whole dynamic where the dc puts in his mind that ONE PERSON is the one he obeys and everyone else is just complied with if it gets me what I wants.  It creates EXTREME conflict, EXTREME misunderstandings, EXTREME challenges.  Had this lady homeschooled or traditional schooled?  I only ask, because I've kind of received the implication that school solves that, and I don't think it does.  I hear about it from people whose kids are in school also.

IME with GW and Geezle, school helps but doesn't solve the preferred adult dynamic. However, this will depend on your kid and their personality. GW is rule bound. He will follow rules and routines contentedly so school is a haven for him. He can work with any of the staff (and they rotate every 6 months, 2 working with a client at a time, one morning, one afternoon). At home, he prefers dh absolutely, however, he actually obeys me more readily because I'm the taskmaster most of the time. As long as we're following our routine, we're good because he knows what to expect and he wants to comply.

 

Geezle is a people pleaser (or at least, people other than his immediate family pleaser). He worries about meeting his teacher's expectations and being a good friend to his classmates. At home, he just wants to chill after putting in his 9 hrs at public school and hour with a tutor (who he works very hard for because her good opinion is extremely important to him). As long as he is a "good room mate" (clean up after yourself, put stuff away, treat the rest of us with respect) we're happy. In fact, we discuss chores and politeness in terms of living with other people. For example, if you want to live with your friend XXX when you're grown up, how will he feel if you leave a dirty bowl in the kitchen? This has been remarkably effective. It even works when Geezle decides he wants to live with us forever, because then I say, "Great! But I expect you to be a good room mate too. I don't want to pick up after you and be treated disrespectfully either." Of course, we've repeated these lines thousands of times, but they've started to sink in.

 

I think both GW and Geezle want to be more independent. I don't think either would be happy living with us past their 20s. They're both happy to go off to school everyday and take pride in their accomplishments there. Since Geezle is able to express himself, we have discussions about growing up, getting a job and moving to an apartment. Then, we have the discussions about that being scary and being able to live at home as long as he wants. He seems to be weighing his options without getting too anxious about it. He knows that there are apartments available locally and that he'd be living with people he knows from school or Special Olympics. That's appealing but he'll still miss his mom and dad, even if we live in walking distance...It's tough being a teen.

[chiguirre]

Elizabeth, her ds had been in ps his entire life.  It was when he graduated, lost his services, and was home all day that I think everything snowballed for her.  (As a side note, every adult Aspie we have met attended ps and received services through the school system.  I can't say any of them are better equipped for functioning as independent adults than ds and all of them struggle academically in a college setting.)

I wanted to comment and say that I think it's much harder to find a life plan for a person with ASD and normal or above intelligence than it is to find a good fit for someone who has an ID label on top of the ASD (although, I'm not entirely sure the ID label is actually accurate for Geezle, it sure opens a lot of good opportunities for him). ID is something that social service agencies and schools know well and can deal with. It gives Geezle a group that he belongs to at school and a ready made social life with all the field trips, special events and Best Buddies activities as well as Special Olympics. Kids who can handle slightly more academics and end up in the Basic level classes are in a much worse position, ime. They can't just hang out in the special ed classroom all the time but they don't exactly fit in with their non-ASD but usually LD peers either. Every time dh makes noises about asking to move Geezle up to basic, both G and I shut that down. He can do more challenging academics with his tutor, but he can't easily replace his social group at school. It would also make qualifying for job training and housing much more difficult. As it is, those things are included in the special ed package that his school generally offers its students. I know its supposed to be an Individual Education Plan, but the reality is that there are several special ed classrooms and you are put in the one that's the best fit. It's difficult for the school to mix and match.

[Tiramisu]

Our local office offers social skills for teens, adolescent girls and elementary age kids. It is a very popular program, but I think it is easier to get the younger kids to attend. 

 

I think it's why this kind of discussion is helpful, even if some of the possibilities expressed here are upsetting to think about. It might encourage families to take advantage of therapeutic opportunities sooner rather than waiting.

 

Some kids hit a certain age, they are not open to getting therapy or participating in programs. And a lot of so-called high-functioning kids don't even get a dx until they are older, when the problems become obvious.

 

We tried therapy at a young age and it seemed to go no-where, so we stopped and chose ps as a way to relieve the stress in our home. But perhaps if we had tried to find a better fit for therapy, something more appropriate to our specific issues, we wouldn't have had that four year period of complete refusal to get help and all the other problems that ensued.

 

And I will say that it was 8 who first got me searching for answers about my oldest, who was finally dx'd with CAPD and has a few other weaknesses that affect her life and her learning. She was in her late teens when we got it sorted out and there was a lot of water under the bridge by then, but our relationships healed after that and she got accommodations for college that have been very helpful. I also got VT with two of my other children after learning about it here. One is know in OT doing IM, which I learned about here, too, and making great progress. So I know personally these kinds of discussions can make a positive difference and I have been very thankful for them.

[kbutton]

Thank you, texasmama! Your description of CBT answered some nagging things I've been wondering about but would never have been able to pinpoint to get good answers. A++ for reading my mind as well as giving a great answer. :-)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I think it's why this kind of discussion is helpful, even if some of the possibilities expressed here are upsetting to think about. It might encourage families to take advantage of therapeutic opportunities sooner rather than waiting.

 

Some kids hit a certain age, they are not open to getting therapy or participating in programs. And a lot of so-called high-functioning kids don't even get a dx until they are older, when the problems become obvious.

 

We tried therapy at a young age and it seemed to go no-where, so we stopped and chose ps as a way to relieve the stress in our home. But perhaps if we had tried to find a better fit for therapy, something more appropriate to our specific issues, we wouldn't have had that four year period of complete refusal to get help and all the other problems that ensued.

 

And I will say that it was 8 who first got me searching for answers about my oldest, who was finally dx'd with CAPD and has a few other weaknesses that affect her life and her learning. She was in her late teens when we got it sorted out and there was a lot of water under the bridge by then, but our relationships healed after that and she got accommodations for college that have been very helpful. I also got VT with two of my other children after learning about it here. One is know in OT doing IM, which I learned about here, too, and making great progress. So I know personally these kinds of discussions can make a positive difference and I have been very thankful for them.

Is it OK to have a run done on the various abbreviations used in this thread :o? This thread has been very informative. I have a young teen who has been borderline AS maybe mild AS that we did tons of social skills with over the years who has been going through a little bit of mouthy teenage angst I think. It is helpful to know what things are available increase he ever needs it.

[Tiramisu]

Is it OK to have a run done on the various abbreviations used in this thread :o? This thread has been very informative. I have a young teen who has been borderline AS maybe mild AS that we did tons of social skills with over the years who has been going through a little bit of mouthy teenage angst I think. It is helpful to know what things are available increase he ever needs it.

 

CAPD is central auditory processing disorder.

VT is vision therapy. I'm not sure if this goes along with ASD (autism spectrum disorder) at all.

IM is Interactive Metronome. It's a therapy to improve attention, coordination, and impulsivity..

OT is occupational therapy.

 

And here's another abbreviation that is more common in ASD than not: SPD, sensory processing disorder. 

 

You will also see things like VMI, visual motor integration.

 

ETA: Upthread Cognitive Behavioral Therapy was discussed (CBT).

 

And Applied Behavioral Analysis (ABA) seems to be the most common therapy recommended for ASD now.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Tiramisu

[MyLittleBears]

ok so I was thinking..... ds has never had an actual outburst of rage. He gets very angry and storms into his room and sometimes pounds his bed and then holds his cat. Later comes to me crying. He says he doesn't like feeling this way and it takes a long time for his feelings to dissipate. He says he feel kind of like a shaken up can of soda. It also seem that his brothers are the only trigger.

 

He already works out with his father and we were considering a punching bag for the workout room anyway, but I fear that if I tell him to go hit the punching bag when he is upset he will get used to this an alway *need* it. Does that make sense?   Is it a productive way for autistics individuals to destress? Or would it increase the rage feeling considering their obsessive tendencies?

[kbutton]

ok so I was thinking..... ds has never had an actual outburst of rage. He gets very angry and storms into his room and sometimes pounds his bed and then holds his cat. Later comes to me crying. He says he doesn't like feeling this way and it takes a long time for his feelings to dissipate. He says he feel kind of like a shaken up can of soda. It also seem that his brothers are the only trigger.

 

He already works out with his father and we were considering a punching bag for the workout room anyway, but I fear that if I tell him to go hit the punching bag when he is upset he will get used to this an alway *need* it. Does that make sense?   Is it a productive way for autistics individuals to destress? Or would it increase the rage feeling considering their obsessive tendencies?

 

I wouldn't nix the punching bag for working out, but I do have the same question you do about using it for de-stressing. 

 

If he is removing himself from the situation and doing appropriate things, would it be appropriate to express how healthy it is for him to do that and then find another option for the de-stressing? Some of what might be bothering him is feeling like he needs to just not have those emotions. Maybe just talking about his positive response each time would help any niggling guilt he has about needing an out. Then, maybe he'd be open to additional or different soothing techniques if he feels that what he's doing is not helping enough. Would he visualize something while breathing, for instance? Like breathing in good feelings slowly while exhaling the bad feelings slowly, or would that be too touchy-feely for him?

 

I am sure someone could come up with a better idea, but I can't help thinking that he's likely stuck feeling bad that he would even feel this way. If that is the case, and he responds to affirmation, I really think that the affirmation and knowing these feelings are valid and real (just way bigger than they would be for another person), might help him be open to other ideas. But, maybe that's just me thinking about myself and thinking about how my son would respond. If people minimize my anger, then I get more angry. If they listen, it dissipates. But, I have been on the receiving end of a lot of gaslighting in life. I think our kids can often feel like situations are set up to get them in trouble, and I think that just intensifies and blows valid feelings out of proportion in a way that is like when a reasonable adult is manipulated or treated badly when they have a real concern. I suspect everything seems very high stakes for these kids.

[texasmama]

ok so I was thinking..... ds has never had an actual outburst of rage. He gets very angry and storms into his room and sometimes pounds his bed and then holds his cat. Later comes to me crying. He says he doesn't like feeling this way and it takes a long time for his feelings to dissipate. He says he feel kind of like a shaken up can of soda. It also seem that his brothers are the only trigger.

 

He already works out with his father and we were considering a punching bag for the workout room anyway, but I fear that if I tell him to go hit the punching bag when he is upset he will get used to this an alway *need* it. Does that make sense?   Is it a productive way for autistics individuals to destress? Or would it increase the rage feeling considering their obsessive tendencies?

It sounds like he handles his feelings fine but does not feel comfortable with them.  Some normalizing of this would help.  Most people don't like to get hopping mad, really sad, very scared, etc.  Most people are uncomfortable with these feelings.  

 

Encouraging punching is now not seen as a great outlet for anger because it tends to increase the adrenaline.  Exercise in general is a good release, but I think I would not concentrate on punching.  Working out is fine, and running or doing a sport is a good way to offload stress, though.

[PeterPan]

Calming tools are something you work together to make a list of.  I would get him the heavy bag or speed bag just because they want to do it together.  If you then sit down and make a list of calming tools, that may or may not go on it.  And of course that list could change.

 

My ds is a lot more physical.  I finally did get him a heavy bag, and it's something he can put all that energy into, especially when he's having trouble.  For him, it's good.  But he hits it and tackles it and whams into it enough that he gets worn out.  The thing weighs 130 pounds and he weighs 50.  He always loses.  ;)

 

In our house, better the heavy bag than me, so that's what I want him hitting.  That's just our reality.  But if he's not hitting now, I don't think you need to worry that it's going to increase it. (my non-professional opinion) You could even just go for a speed bag.  Someone was telling me his mom got him a speed bag when he was 7/8.  They're the small things.  I think they would be good for timing, strength...  He said it was good just for letting out stress.  Might be that kind of in-between option.  

 

I *think* the hitting goes back to a communication thing, that things have gotten SO overwhelming and the person is SO unable to communicate that it boils up to that level and comes out physically.  So, at least in our house, we're working on *communication* hard.  If you can say what you're feeling and ask a question to problem solve, that helps.  I finally did the Sitting Like a Frog with him last night with the cd.  Went WAY better than just me trying to talk to him, lol.  What a dope I was!  You just get all relaxed and put in the cd and do what it says, duh.  And our OT was saying to try doing that during the day too to get it to where mindfulness can be a calming tool for him.  I'm like, you don't get how impulsive he is.  But, you never know.  It makes sense that it should work.

 

I just don't think you have to think getting him a heavy bag will make him violent.  There are so many good tools you can use.  You don't even have to connect them.  And having that heavy bag and going to work out for 30 minutes at lunch might be PREVENTATIVE for meltdowns.

[MyLittleBears]

Yes I guess I never thought about how maybe he just hates the feeling. This does seem like what he expressing to me. The calming tools are a good idea and maybe working on expressing his frustration in words. It does seem like he wants to talk about it and have it all affirmed when he is overwhelmed, he just does not have the right words and so the tears come. We have a lot of work to do sigh.....