Jump to content

Menu

TOG users I need History Cycle Advice


Recommended Posts

I am trying to figure out what to do for history next year, and the years to follow. My oldest is 10 and will be in 5th next year and I am realizing that I need to start increasing her history (and other subjects) difficulty and responsibility level. I know for sure I want to use TOG for D and R levels. I feel like it is time to have our family all together for history, and I need the hand holding that TOG offers for discussions. At the moment I don't think she is quite up to D level work so I was thinking of doing UG level work next year for 5th to help her work up to D level by 6th. I think this would be enough to help her build up the endurance for more difficult and longer assigned history reading and assignments, and learn to complete them as independently as possible. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

 

My main questions are bolded in case you don't want to read through the whole post. ;)

My bigger question is what year should I do? Which year of TOG would be easier to be starting D level work, Yr. 1 or Yr. 4?  She is currently doing SL Core D (American History Yr 1). his has been her first partial run through American history. So I think it would make sense to continue next year in TOG Yr. 3. T  I would also have a 3rd, 2nd, and Ker next year as well.  Or would it be better to jump back to Yr. 1, skipping Yr 4.  Would Yr. 1 be easier to be starting D level work?  I know Yr. 1 topics would be easier for my younger kids. 

 

These are the two options I have narrowed it down to.  

 

So option #1

5th: Yr. 3 (UG) (will also have a 3rd, 2nd, and Ker)

6th Yr. 4 (D) (will also have a 4th, 3rd, and 1st)

7th Yr. 1 (D)

8th Yr. 2 (D)

9th Yr. 3 (D or R)

10th. Yr. 4 (R level)

11th Yr. 1 (R level)

12th Yr. 2 (R level)

 

option #2 (skipping Yr. 4 and going back to ancients)

 

5th: Yr. 3 (UG) (will also have a 3rd, 2nd, and Ker)

6th Yr. 1 (D) (will also have a 4th, 3rd, and 1st)

7th Yr. 2 (D)

8th Yr. 3 (D)

9th Yr. 4 (D or R)

10th. Yr. 1 (R level)

11th Yr. 2 (R level)

12th Yr. 3 (R level)

 

For those of you with young kids while studying Yr. 4 what do you do for them while difficult topics are being covered (i.e. WW1 and WW2, etc)?  The only problem i see with skipping Yr. 4 and going back to Yr 1 is that will mean my oldest wouldn't have studied modern history until she gets in to 9th. 

 

Also as far as High School is concerned is there an advantage to studying Yr. 1 in 9th, Yr. 2 in 10th, etc. as opposed to starting 9th with Yr. 4, and then 10th Yr. 1 etc.?  Does that make any sense?  If there is maybe it would be better to Just go back to Yr. 1 next year, that would put her on track to be starting the 4 year cycle over in 9th.  So in other words, which year of TOG would you say is the best for starting Rhetoric level in 9th?  Ugh , I think I am way over thinking this.  Help please.

If you read this far thank you. :) Any and all advice and thoughts would be very much appreciated. My head is spinning from trying to figure all of this out, and I have no one else to get advice from on this topic.  Hopefully some of this makes sense. 

 

Edited: Although my post is still confusing, my original was worse.  ;) 

Edited by ForeverFamily
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello!  We have used Tapestry of Grace for two years.  It has been a great fit for our family. 

 

Your plan to use UG book selections with your sixth grader is a fine plan.  If you ever see things in the Dialectic section that you'd like to cover with your dd, you can always pick and choose as you wish.  But, for simplicity sake, the plan to do UG for sixth grade is absolutely fine!  You do not need to feel like she is "behind" at all!

 

Year 2, which covers middle ages, the renaissance, and early American history (1300s - 1800)  is actually the most difficult because it condenses much content into one year.  I like your thought of continuing your history cycle with year 3.

 

Here is what your oldest would cover:

 

6th grade:  year 3 (The Nineteenth Century) - Upper Grammar

7th grade:  year 4 (The Twentieth Century) - dialectic

8th grade:  year 1 (The Ancients) - dialectic

9th grade: year 2 (The Medieval World to Modern) - Rhetoric

10th grade year 3 (The Nineteenth Century) - Rhetoric

11th grade year 4 (The Twentieth Century) - Rhetoric

12th grade year 1 (The Ancients) - Rhetoric

 

You could also begin with Year 2.  I realize some of the information would have been covered this year in your Sonlight plan, but much of it will be new.  Year 2 does move quickly, but this will likely be the only year when you'll be covering only two levels:  lower grammar and upper grammar.  That will simplify things for you as you get used to TOG during your first year.

 

Here's what you'd cover if you started with year 2:

 

6th grade: year 2

7th grade:  year 3

8th grade:  year 4

9th grade:  year 1

10th grade:  year 2

11th grade:  year 3

12 grade:  year 4

 

 

Hope this helps!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello!  We have used Tapestry of Grace for two years.  It has been a great fit for our family. 

 

Your plan to use UG book selections with your sixth grader is a fine plan.  If you ever see things in the Dialectic section that you'd like to cover with your dd, you can always pick and choose as you wish.  But, for simplicity sake, the plan to do UG for sixth grade is absolutely fine!  You do not need to feel like she is "behind" at all!

 

Year 2, which covers middle ages, the renaissance, and early American history (1300s - 1800)  is actually the most difficult because it condenses much content into one year.  I like your thought of continuing your history cycle with year 3.

 

Here is what your oldest would cover:

 

6th grade:  year 3 (The Nineteenth Century) - Upper Grammar

7th grade:  year 4 (The Twentieth Century) - dialectic

8th grade:  year 1 (The Ancients) - dialectic

9th grade: year 2 (The Medieval World to Modern) - Rhetoric

10th grade year 3 (The Nineteenth Century) - Rhetoric

11th grade year 4 (The Twentieth Century) - Rhetoric

12th grade year 1 (The Ancients) - Rhetoric

 

You could also begin with Year 2.  I realize some of the information would have been covered this year in your Sonlight plan, but much of it will be new.  Year 2 does move quickly, but this will likely be the only year when you'll be covering only two levels:  lower grammar and upper grammar.  That will simplify things for you as you get used to TOG during your first year.

 

Here's what you'd cover if you started with year 2:

 

6th grade: year 2

7th grade:  year 3

8th grade:  year 4

9th grade:  year 1

10th grade:  year 2

11th grade:  year 3

12 grade:  year 4

 

 

Hope this helps!

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to sift through my post. I appreciate you helping me visually lay it out.    Which year do you think is the most ideal to begin D level work? My oldest will be starting 5th next year so I am not worried about her being behind. But I am really trying to be careful how much how soon I push on her because she easily becomes frustrated, she is a perfectionist, and I don't want to give her a bad taste for history.  Also are the topics covered in year 4 difficult to do with younger kids?  Again thank you so much for taking the time to answer me.  I had a really difficult time putting my questions and thinking process into words. 

Edited by ForeverFamily
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually think year 2 would be the hardest to start D b/c it is a really, really full year--but I have 2 that will, so bear in mind that that is just a comparison. My upcoming 6th grader will start D at year 2 and, even though he is not my strongest student, I think it will be fine with some support.

 

We switched from Sonlight at 6th grade (for my first) and it was an easy switch. I think you are right to start with UG. I think that D is too intense for 5th, even with strong students. My second child started doing D for the third quarter of fifth grade b/c it was an Africa unit and I felt she would do well. I'm not sure if my present fifth grader will be ready during the last quarter.

 

I don't think there's an advantage to starting Yr 1 in 9th. My oldest started with yr 4 and it was fine. In fact, the lit in yr. 1 is probably some of the hardest, so I wouldn't even work to make sure I started there.

 

With regard to the difficult yr 4 topics and the youngers: unlike Sonlight, the D and R work is independent. We don't hold the discussions where the youngers can hear. The resources for the younger ones don't really go into great detail.

 

I'm not sure which of your options I would go with. Actually, I would probably do Core E and then switch to TOG.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't really say as far as which year you should start. I do agree with Pylegang about y2. This is our second time through y2 and it is a lot of information!! If there was one tog year that I would stretch out, it would be y2!! I haven't done that but it feels like a good idea sometimes. Ha

 

Something to consider also is that year 1 is a LOT of Bible reading. I have only done UG and R for y1, so I can't speak to D level, but I would imagine the Bible for y1 D would be a lot as well, so easing in With another year may be better.

 

Right now I have a 6th, 4th, and K in y2. I have been easing the 6th grader into D level work. That is the beauty of tog. You could take one unit and just start them on the history core readings and one or two D level questions that could be answered by their book. The next unit you could add the in-depth readings then add D lit, etc. as the year progresses. For us, I started D lit and D church history with my 6th grader, and I read the church history aloud after reading the questions first and had him listen for the answers and just discuss. Later he will do that on paper.

 

With that in mind, for your oldest, if you are buying and not checking from the library, you may consider purchasing one unit at a time so you can adjust as the year progresses.

 

Y4, I don't remember all of the war stuff being a huge issue for us for LG. They learned about some American culture type things like Walt Disney and such. They did learn about the wars but I don't remember it being more than was good for them. That was two years ago so my memory may just be bad on that.

 

I hope that helps some. I really like tog. It is flexible and easy to adjust per child, IMO.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which year do you think is the most ideal to begin D level work?

I'm not sure that this should necessarily be a big concern at this point.  Tapestry does an excellent job at leveling the material for each year and selecting age appropriate books for your studies.  It would probably be best to simply decide what history time period you'd like to study next year.  Since you're studying American history this year, it makes sense to begin Tapestry year 3 - The Eighteenth Century.  Take a peek at bookshelf central to review the books Tapestry uses for year 3. It is a very nice list!  I think starting at year 3 might be nice because it covers only 100 years of history.  You'll feel like your diving in deeply and moving at a nice slow pace (compared to covering 500 years in year 2).

 

I misunderstood the information you provided and mistakenly thought your oldest would be in 6th grade next year.  I apologize for the confusion! Since your oldest will be a 5th grader next year, you would definitely want to use upper and lower grammar resources for your family.

 

There is not necessarily a magic age or grade for when a child is ready for dialectic level resources.  As you use Tapestry, you'll become much more familiar with the type of resources they use and you'll establish a regular routine that works for your family.   You can decide on "when" to begin using dialectic resources later.  Just know that it is 100% fine to use upper grammar resources in 6th grade if you want/need to.  I' would encourage you to try to move to dialectic resources by the time your child is enter 7th grade. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In your situation, starting TOG in 5th grade, I agree that UG would be best. Year 2 is definitely the hardest year, beyond that I don't think there is much difference between years. I would simply continue the history cycle from where you are now. I believe that would mean going with your Option #1. Don't worry about where you will end up later. (Says the lady who has written out a zillion different paths during my 7 yrs of using TOG. Do as I say, not as I do. LOL.)

 

Year 4 is very gentle at the LG level. I am in the midst of planning for next year and my 3rd, 2nd, and Ker will be combined in Year 4 LG. The tougher topics are covered, but much more time is spent on lighter topics like the Wright brothers and other inventors, Louis Armstrong, Babe Ruth, Amelia Earhart, and space exploration. I think it will be a great year for my younger kids. :)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone thank you for talking me down LOL. :-). I really, really appreciate everyone's advice. So Yr 2 sounds like the most difficult , so perhaps that would be the year to avoid upping the difficulty level too much. How much of the assigned reading are your kids doing independently by UG and D? Do you do any of it as read alouds? Just trying to gauge how much independence I should be realistically expecting.

 

Pylegang no worries on the grade level. Your advice was extremely helpful. So thank you. I appreciate you stressing the idea that there is no need to panic if my Dd is still needing to linger at the UG level by the time she gets to 6th grade. This may very well be the case.

 

Texas T. How much of the assigned reading do you read aloud for your 6th grader? Was your 6th grader reading all of his UG books independently before you started switching subjects to D? I don't know why I am having such a hard time wrapping my mind around the transition from UG to D level.

 

Freesia your advice to do Core E first than switch to TOG is also something I have pondered. The advantage there would be finishing up American History in one year as opposed to two. And perhaps I would just throw in some easier books and activities for the youngers to follow along. If I did decide to go that route any thoughts on how I could best use that year to prepare my Dd for the D level the following year? For example, should I slowly transition my Dd to reading all of the history and read aloud to independent reading? I don't know why the D level seems so daunting to me, LOL.

 

TracyP thank you for reassuring me that the younger kids can have a good experience with Yr. 4. The topics that you mentioned actually sound like they would be a lot of fun for them to study. I am also the same way, I have mapped out a zillion possibilities for history. For some reason switching to TOG feels like a final decision in our future history cycle, I guess that is why I am stressing over it so much. But it is good and bad to hear that the decision I make might not be so Final. :-)

 

I still have a lot of pondering to do...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We used to use SL, I actually still use a lot of the old cores up through 100, with my TOG choices.  I agree with everyone else, Y2 is the hardest year as far as the time span studied.  Y1 is the more difficult literature for some R students. I actually split my cycle a little differently because of the way I transitioned my oldest over to TOG from SL, so for Y2 we do U1-3, then the next year we do four units, and so forth.  I make up the time in Y4.  

 

I don't think it's a huge concern which level your child is in when, you're over thinking it.  :)  Remember, some R students, including those in the online classes sometimes dip back down into D once in a while to ease their load (see TOG R Literature-Lite).  There is no set level.  I routinely dip back and forth amongst the different levels depending on the child.  Some are just stronger with different topics, or at different times.  Sometimes it's simply dependent on what else we have to accomplish that week.  Some weeks I assign more independent work, some weeks we do more together.  It doesn't have to be one or the other.  

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are using year 2 now: LG and UG for my children and I'm doing most of D for myself. My dd is 8.5 yo and she does the UG readings independently. Every now and then I check out a book from the library that I feel is a stretch for her, but it's mostly a great fit. I help her a little with the map work, and we read aloud the Famous Men of the Middle Ages during our morning basket time. The great thing about TOG is that you can go up and down levels from week to week if you wish, but it sounds like that may be difficult if you are having to order all of your books beforehand.

 

There are several weeks in year 2 that I have decided to stretch out into 2 weeks because of the amount of reading/information that is covered.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm doing Year 4 with my crew, who are 8th, 5th, and 1st. TOG does a great job of making the topics age-appropriate. While my older kids have been studying WW1 and 2, the youngest is doing stuff on Disney, teddy bears, cultural changes in the 1950s, etc. She has learned a bit about the Holocaust, Civil Rights movement, etc, and it's been good for her. It has been sad at times, yes, but also really good to give her some perspective.

 

My 5th grade is solidly doing mostly dialectic books now. I like that with TOG you can pick and choose week by week. So for my kids I've usually started ramping up the work in 5th grade, slowly assigned more D level books. By the second half of 5th grade I am assigned a couple of accountability questions each week. I have always included 5th graders in discussion, too. It;s worked great. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...