Barton Level 1 lesson 1- We're already having a hard time

[Esse Quam Videri]

We just discovered that DD7 has dyslexia (Posted here before).

 

We are starting Barton 1 and in lesson 1 she's struggling with break-replace... She often forgets the sound that she is supposed to keep. Or she can't let go of the sound and says it along with the other two.

 

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else had trouble with this? It's amazing to see this early that she clearly needs work on these skills. It makes me hopeful about the program! But, it also makes me wonder how much work she has in front of her...

 

Anyone else have a student that needed lots of time to get through Level 1?

[PeterPan]

Did you do the pre-test?  She may need LIPS first.  The pretest looks at both phonemic awareness and working memory.  As you say, without enough basic working memory, they can't even do the tasks.  It's going to be rocket science, but if it's not even within reach, you may need to re-examine that pretest.

[Esse Quam Videri]

She actually did great on the pre-test/student screening. She didn't miss any in Task A, one in Task B, and then needed two in task C repeated. She seems to do great hearing the sounds well, but the trouble comes in manipulating/switching those sounds around.

[Julie of KY]

My son who had already done a lot of phonemic work in other programs had a hard time getting through every step of level 1. We then went back and did it all again as I didn't feel like he was ready to move on. He's slowly worked his way up to level 4 at this time.

[OneStepAtATime]

I recommend slowing down.  You may need to repeat lessons.  For some kids, Level 1 is a breeze.  For others it is a bit of a struggle. For others it is terribly challenging.  Have you looked in the TM and on-line for additional suggestions on how to help?

 

FWIW, DD struggled with Level 1.  It took her a lot longer than for DS.  DS breezed through the entire thing in a week, doing one lesson a day.  And yet DD is the one that has been able to move forward more successfully than DS with this program overall. In other words, don't get too discouraged. Struggling in Level 1 doesn't mean the entire program will be a struggle.

 

I will say, though, that there have been some posters on here that stayed in Level 1 for months or more and eventually switched to another program, where they did much better.  Their particular kid just needed a different approach.

[PeterPan]

It's probably her working memory.  I would focus on that.  Besides the fact that it's ROCKET SCIENCE for them, the reality is a little child might just have 2 or 3 digits of working memory and need more.  Think about it, to blend CVC you need to have 3 and then HOLD them while you make a whole new thing!  So part of what you're doing in LIPS is building their working memory.  

 

So that's great that she passed the pretest.  I'm just suggesting that's a place to put a little effort.  And it will stretch with the work with the tiles too.  You can just enhance that by doing some work on working memory on the side.

[Esse Quam Videri]

Would LIPS be beneficial for working memory then? I wa sunder the impression that it focused on differentiating sounds but I don't know much about it as I'm a total newbie. Or is there any other programs that could help with this? Also, is working memory in this context the same muscle/skill that she would use memorizing other things? She had a more difficult time memorizing letters, numbers, etc. but then sometimes she's done really well. She blew me away last year in school when she memorized Psalm 1-5 and Catechism questions 1-32 word perfect. She was only 1 of 2 first year students that did it! BUT, she worked really hard to keep up with her older siblings.

 

Thank you again for all of your help and suggestions. It's such a relief to have others who can somewhat relate.

[PeterPan]

EQV, I did LIPS blended with Barton 1.  Technically LIPS is about getting that connection with this is how it sounds, this is how it feels in my mouth (so I can recognize it happening), this is how I write it (sandpaper letters, whatever).  If you had the tool already and weren't going to have to spend money on it, you'd probably whip it out and just use it.  The question is do you HAVE to have it.  If she has the sound written connection, like she knows this is the sound, this is how it feels in my mouth when I say it, this is the letter it goes with, then you don't technically have to have it.

 

Just for working memory, what you can do is take the step in Barton 1, lesson 1, and do it with more letters.  Like don't stop when it has you do it with 1 or 2.  Do it with 1, 2, 3, 4,5,6!  That way she's having to work harder and harder to stretch that working memory and hold more and process more.  LIPS adds the faces and that ability to say this is how it feels in my mouth.  For my ds, even the simple step of saying "u-p" and then picking two faces (the vowel face for /u/ and the popper face for /p/) was hard.  That was rocket science.  He had to do that with those two sounds before he could do that same skill (u-p) with colored squares.  And he needed to do it with colored squares before he could trade those for letters and do it with letters.  But no, to get the working memory, what you need to do is stretch.  So you'll take it down to 1 and 2 (squares, sounds, face tiles, whatever) and then build up to 2, 3,4,5,6.  I kept going, because for my ds it really was rocket science.  When he started, to do two sounds and blend was impossibly hard.  So there was no reason for me to say oh stop at 3 letters, that's good enough.  I needed that WM to allow him to keep going!  But for using the faces of LIPS, that was because that was the tool he needed.  If your dc can do the 2 colored squares and handle that, then they don't need the faces.  My ds needed the faces.  

 

And to me, I'd rather something be really really easy and then just slowly make it harder with little baby steps of increase.  That's why I'm saying if you *had* the faces, you wouldn't be hesitating to use them simply because they might make it more concrete, less abstract.  Going to tiles is abstract.

 

You can also work on WM with digit spans, movement games where you give sequences of instructions, games that use working memory, etc.  I've tried to have a combo approach with my ds.  We did digit spans, yes, movement games (give 2 instructions, have him repeat, then he does them, do this several times and the last time find a prize), games (A Fist Full of Coins), etc.  The LIPS/Barton process itself is building working memory, but like I said I was VERY aggressive about taking every skill out to multiple, multiple places.  So to me it's more like making sure the WM is there across domains.  Like is it there if I'm moving, is it there if I'm speaking, is it there if I'm using my vision, etc.  It's not good enough just to have digit spans and not to be able to use it while you're using your vision or your speech or whatever.  So to me, I'd work on it a variety of ways.  And that way, no one thing has to be perfect.  :)

 

So yes, your memory thing shows that she's super bright.  She also sounds like she has math disability.  Have you gotten her checked? I *knew* my ds had math disability, but we did just enough Ronit Bird that it was not evident to the first psych when he was newly 6.  By the time of the 2nd psych eval, his peers were pulling ahead, and it became very obvious to the psychs.  So yeah, you could be seeing some math disability there.  I would get that diagnosed along with the SLD reading and then start intervention for it.  (unless I'm reading you wrong there)

[Esse Quam Videri]

Wow that's helpful OhE! So many great ideas... Off to research and plan. I'll update here as we go.

 

Yes, once the school district can get her in for full evals we should know more about math... I guess that gives us time to focus on Barton!

[PeterPan]

You want my document showing how I blended LIPS and Barton?  It's kinda rambly, but I tried to be thorough.  :)

 

See if this link works

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y26rcrwcp4g57mt/Notes%20on%20LIPS.pdf?dl=0

Edited February 6, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

Didax DD-210829 Tactile Sandpaper Lowercase Letters

 

These are the sandpaper letters we used.  So we would look at the face, practice the sounds, draw them with our fingers on the sandpaper letters, on our backs, in the air.  We'd match faces and sandpaper letters.

 

Classroom Magnetic Letters Kit

 

This is the set of letters we used.  We set it all up on a whiteboard, with all the faces, all the letters, everything organized.  So we'd put the "puffers" face (which actually they call POPPERS, but I don't, I like puffers better), and then under the puffers face we'd put all the letter and letter combinations that could make puffer sounds.  Rinse and repeat for all the faces.  We just built up this board very slowly.  So we were writing, using letters, using faces, using blank tiles, using sandpaper letters.  Every skill with every manipulative, till he could do the skill with the field of letters all the way out to 5-6 letter words.  Then the next lesson of Barton would add another few letters, and we'd start all over again, with all the manipulatives.  Worked for us.

 

 

 

[imagine.more]

DD14, who was 12 when we began, struggled with level 1. We took I think 4 full months to get through it but it was soo worth it! Her working memory improved just from that alone when she was tested the next year. It was a slog for sure, and boring as heck, but it worked. I'd take the struggle as a sign that Barton 1 is really necessary and feel free to take your time with it. At 7 you have so much time and in my experience Level 2 goes fairly quickly. Then 3 was a slog for us because DD is hard of hearing and needed speech practice with blends. And Level 4 is just crazy long. BUT, when he picks up a chapter book for fun after Level 4 you'll realize it's so worthwhile :) 

 

I'd stick with it. Also, try covering up the tile to delete the sound before taking it away. And sometimes with my current 7 year old OG student it helps her to touch-and-say the sounds twice before I delete or substitute any sounds. 

 

You'll see improvement in a few weeks and he will make it out of level 1. I do think some LiPS concepts are useful along with Barton 1 but for most kids the whole LiPS stuff isn't necessary. 

[Esse Quam Videri]

Well it's been 7 or 8 days and she's improved exponentially! It is CRAZY to see progress and a skill gained this soon! We are still going over each mini step multiple times but her ability to remember and manipulate the sounds is already far better than it was just last week. So thankful for this program and all you ladies pointing the way!

[OneStepAtATime]

Well it's been 7 or 8 days and she's improved exponentially! It is CRAZY to see progress and a skill gained this soon! We are still going over each mini step multiple times but her ability to remember and manipulate the sounds is already far better than it was just last week. So thankful for this program and all you ladies pointing the way!

Oh, that's awesome!   :hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:

 

DD struggled, too, but in the end just Level 1 was a huge help to her.  Level 2 was hard, too, but again it was a huge help.  Level 3 upped the ante and was again hard but hard in a bit different way.  She was pulling in more things, stuff was clicking that wasn't before.  DD finally realized that the program was genuinely helping her and with that realization after years and years of trying to read and spell with little success her enthusiasm increased significantly. 

[Jenn in CA]

A thought I've been having lately. When my now 7 & 8yodds were struggling w/phonemic awareness, I realize I often treated activities such as "Say 'sam' without the 's'" as *tests* rather than just modeling zillions of examples. The result was "What is wrong!? They can't do it!?" and mild freaking out.

 

Now I wonder if it would have been better to just do it for them, every time they couldn't do it, over and over. To just model that phonemic manipulation.

 

The reason I wonder is because my 8yo *still* has trouble w/*any* new task or question related to reading/spelling/language arts. It can be super discouraging. But it seems that if I just tell her the answer, and we go thru many examples like that, she catches on.

 

For her, reasoning thru the steps, and trying to guide thru questions, to the answer just doesn't seem to work. 

 

Unless anyone else can tell me why that happens. ;) 

[PeterPan]

Jenn, Barton usually has them do those tasks first with tiles before they ever do it orally.  So they SEE rhyming and physically rhyme with tiles before they try to do it on their own.  They do deletion/substitution with tiles before they do it exclusively orally.  I think it's even cool to do it with the LIPS faces THEN the Barton letter tiles THEN the blank tiles (to stretch that working memory!!), before you try to do something exclusively orally.

 

I wouldn't expect a task orally that I have not first supported visually.

 

Btw, Barton puts in drills for those skills once it covers them, so they get this drip drip drip chance to keep working on it.  It's never enough to be fatiguing or overwhelming, but it keeps letting them work on it.  It's not like these skills are just acquired and held.  They're extremely hard.  Just like some kids need three times through algebra before things click.  ;)

Edited February 15, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[nanette0269]

Just for comparison, my son took 6 weeks to get through level 1...and that was 4 days/week for an hour/session with a certified barton tutor.  The length of time to finish level 1 tends to be a big indicator to determine the severity of their dyslexia.  They will all get through it, but some will fly at some steps and others will faulter on some.  They are all different.  Happy that you had her identified while she was 7!