Looking Back, would you put your AL in elementary school?

[mathmarm]

If you tried a B&M school for your AL in the early years, was it a mistake?

Would you do it again? If so, what would you have done differently?

What are some ways that you could you maximize the benefit of a K-3 classroom experience for an AL?

Is there a benefit to attending school even if you aren't learning anything (academic) there?

 

We are beginning to have trouble seeing how school will play out for Jr, who is already meeting (and exceeding) many of the milestones for first and second grade in the local schools, even those that have a reputation for rigorous academics.

 

Jr is 2 years old and attends preschool now, he loves it so far and we plan to keep him there for a while. We had intended to send him to school, though whether we'd send him in K or 1st was never decided, now we aren't sure that he will be properly cared for in an elementary school setting.

 

In your experience with B&M school and your AL, was it a bad idea all around? Was there anything that you could have done to make it more beneficial?

 

[Dmmetler]

I'd keep him there as long as it's play based and flexible. Pre-K was a great experience for my DD, but when we let the school put her in kindergarten early, it didn't work so well because they were so focused on getting everyone up to level in reading and math that there really wasn't time to give her what she needed. As her K teacher said, if she could give DD even 5 minutes of instruction, DD would be good (and DD did their curriculum through 2nd grade that year)-but often there wasn't the time, and it would only be worse in 1st. She encouraged us to homeschool.

 

In 20/20 hindsight, I wish I'd left her in Pre-K for the 2nd year. Not because she would have learned anything, but because it was a nice group of kids and was still flexible enough that she enjoyed herself, and let her do "Real school" at home. And if I could have found a play based K, that would have been good, too.  A forest school would have been perfect! Actually, a forest school probably would still be perfect...

 

 

 

 

[Arcadia]

My oldest went to public school for K and 1st. In hindsight I would have pulled him out after 5th because K-5 was not stressful, school was fun and he is my social kid.

 

Afterschooling was easy for this kid so I could have treat morning as social hour and let him do the academics after school.

 

However I would have tried to get him into a dual immersion school instead to make the experience even better. He likes languages just as much as math/science so just english was boring.

 

ETA:

I kept my youngest home because he had gastro issues. He needed many restroom breaks until he was older.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Arcadia

[Jackie]

My experience is so very limited. We did a play-based preschool for about 1.5 years, and no other brick and mortar. Their older kids are in a mixed age classroom, ranging from 3.5 through kindy entrance. When she started, she was too young for that classroom, but we asked if she could trial her age-based classroom and the older one, and everyone agreed she fit better with the older kids.

 

She started out, at a young 3, loving the play-based preschool. We realized at the end of her first year that almost every friend she had was older and moving on to kindergarten. After they moved on, things quickly went downhill. She begged to stay home. She complained about how "young" the other kids were - not following rules in games, being carelessly destructive of toys, and so on. Most of these kids were her age. We did work with her and the teacher to navigate the social aspect, and she did learn valuable skills. But when we wothdrew her, she hated preschool and had only a couple friends there.

 

Even now, at homeschool park day, my 5-year-old's friends are 7-9 years old. I don't think the social aspect of school would be very enjoyable to her, and the academics wouldn't fit at all. This is the reason we homeschool.

[MEmama]

We moved to a very isolated area right before DS started K. Had we stayed where we were he would have attended a French immersion school, but as it was we had only a public elementary. We had looked into homeschooling before settling on the immersion school, but decided to give the ps a try since there were literally no other opportunities to meet other kids. Although we ended up taking him up part way through grade 1, I am very glad he gave it a try. Academically it was useless (which we expected) but at least it got him out of the house and he was able to make a few friends. A side benefit was that after he decided to homeschool, he has never looked back on that decision or felt he was missing out on anything. He knew from experience that ps was a waste of his time.

[MEmama]

> Is there a benefit to attending school even if you aren't learning anything (academic) there?

 

I would say "no" If by "anything" you really mean 0%. My older boys complained that they weren't learning anything sometimes, but they actually were. They just weren't "challenged" which is different. They wanted to learn faster, but they were still learning *something* in most, though not all, subjects.

 

If a kid really isn't learning anything, then I don't think there's enough social aspect to merit them staying in that school.

I mostly agree.

My son complained he wasn't learning anything because he wasn't (I worked in the adjacent classroom and knew exactly how below his level his classes were). But, for us and for that amount of time the social end was very important. We were definitely outsiders in that community and by at least being in the school he was able not to just have a couple of playmates but also be on the soccer and hockey teams, both of which would have been far less accepting had we homeschooled from the start. He doesn't have huge social needs, but it wouldn't have seemed fair or right not to give him any opportunity we could to at least be around other kids. However, we were in an outstandingly closed and hostile community and this wouldn't have been a concern for us nearly anywhere else. And after awhile even that became less important than giving him what he needed academically, both for us and certainly for him.

[quark]

In your experience with B&M school and your AL, was it a bad idea all around? Was there anything that you could have done to make it more beneficial?

 

I am not the type of person to put school down for everyone but I honestly cannot think of a single good idea why elementary school would have been good for my son. This is in retrospect. At that time, I really hoped it would work but it wasn't just about bad academic or social fit. It was a terrible emotional and psychological fit even when they upped the academics.

 

There was nothing I could have done differently. I hope you hear more positive news if this is something that would truly benefit your well being, not only your child's. On hindsight, it might have been better for me, career-wise, to not have homeschooled but I don't think I would have been peaceful about the decision so that stress wouldn't have benefited me anyway.

 

Like others have said, as long as it is a play-based, healthy and happy environment it sounds fine. Like dmmetler says, we would have loved a forest school that also hosted quarterly Shakespeare plays with kids of all ages in all the roles in that forest setting, PLUS math and science play and instruction that went up to very high levels. And an affordable fee structure with flexible hours. That might have been a workable elementary school arrangement for my son (I know, dream on right?).

 

Good luck!

[snowbeltmom]

If you tried a B&M school for your AL in the early years, was it a mistake?

Would you do it again? If so, what would you have done differently?

It was a huge mistake to send my kids to B & M school.

 

If I had to do it again, I wouldn't have even bothered to try to be an "advocate for my child" and would have pulled them out as soon as it was obvious the B&M was a terrible fit and they were miserable.

 

From reading this board, I know that some families are in great school districts. This was/is not our reality.

Edited January 16, 2016 by snowbeltmom

[Runningmom80]

I only have a 9 year old, but I've never regretted not sending him to elementary. Even the gifted charter in town would have been a disaster.

[regentrude]

My kids went to public elementary school, and I withdrew them when they were in middle school. In hindsight: yes, I would have them again attend elementary school, but would pull them out immediately at the end of grade 4.

Overall, they had a positive school experience in elementary. Sure, they could have learned a lot more academically and were often bored, but school was about more than that. We speak a different family language and only arrived in this country when DD was five years old, so having them attend a public school ensured that they were immersed in an English speaking environment. I am glad they were taught to read and write by native speakers. They encountered many caring adults, I loved almost all of the teachers, and had opportunities we could not have replicated at home. It was not ideal, because of the lack of academic challenge, but the pros outweighed the cons.

I have a job, and I could make homeschooling work with older kids - but I could not homeschool young kids who need constant adult supervision and teaching.

Edited January 16, 2016 by regentrude

[EKS]

I sent my son to school when he was 10.  He did a one year grade skip in to 6th and then a second year the next year into 8th.  Both years he was accelerated three years in math.  So my point is the school was trying.  

 

I see now that it was a huge mistake sending him, and he and I are still (a year and a half later) dealing with the repercussions. 

 

If your son is working at a 1st/2nd grade level at age 2 and that continues, it is unlikely that a regular public school, even a gifted program, will be able to meet his needs.  For anything.  

[Luckymama]

I really wish I had started homeschooling when it first suggested to me by my oldest's teacher when he was in fifth grade. But I was intimidated by the thought of starting with 5th, 3rd, and a 2 year old. Instead, I began by pulling youngest when she was in fifth grade!

 

K-3 was good for her, even though she was so ahead of the other kids. It definitely changed in fourth grade but that's when my mom was dying so there was no way I could have done a proper job that year.

[Mike in SA]

In retrospect, we would've pulled both kids sooner.  The problem is, retrospect for one kid is borderline useless in planning for the next.

 

If the schools had even been *close* to providing adequate support, we would have left the kids there, because there is a lot about a school setting that a home can never replicate - other kids, clubs, activities, et al.  We can provide substitutes, but we can't really match the real things.  For extroverted thinkers, a home setting can be very tough.

 

We would be happy to supplement, and let the kids have fun.  A PG kid, however, simply will never be supported in a B&M setting.  It's an unfortunate reality.

[bullseye]

We're currently facing the same decision. DS is in his K year at a Montessori school, and I never thought I’d say it, but we’re considering keeping him there for the time being (school goes through 6th). Here’s a look at my thought process:

 

Pros

• He’s happy and looking forward to first grade. 
• His social skills are really developing. This is a big deal to us since we live in a rural area with few opportunities for him to be around other children.
• The school is really great about meeting his needs, both by letting him borrow materials from the elementary classroom as needed and by sending him to the playground when his energy overflows. 
• It’s my opinion that the mixed-age classroom has kept him from feeling like too much of an outlier. With 30+ kids between the ages of two and a half and six all doing different lessons at different levels, it’s expected for some kids to be ahead of others. Few of them are observant enough to notice that one kid is considerably ahead in most areas. 
• I really love what Montessori has done for his executive function. Since his intense personality makes me doubt he’ll ever stop wanting to know everything, I think one of the best things we can do for him now is to give him the skills to drive his own learning process. 
• The upper and lower elementary classes are separated by sliding doors with a lot of going back and forth, so there’s opportunity for him to work up to five grade levels ahead next year. 
• He’s just a little kid. Early childhood is considered what, up to age eight? Even if school isn’t totally challenging him, there are other reasons to be there and plenty of time later for â€œcatching up†to where he could be. 

 

Cons

• He comes home in the afternoons wanting more, more, more. It’s almost like school is the appetizer and our afternoon time is the main course. We'll spend the rest of the day playing with new math concepts, researching something he read about but the teacher couldn’t answer all his questions, etc. I’m putting so much time and energy into him that I might as well be homeschooling already. 
• The cost. Second child will be starting next fall, and although we can make it work, we didn’t anticipate having two there at once. 
• It won’t meet his needs forever. He needs a LOT of individual attention. I’ve been very impressed by his teachers’ efforts, but they don’t think the way he does. So it seems like I’m delaying the inevitable, and the transition to elementary would be an easy time to make the break. 

 

Bottom line, we’ll probably keep him there for now and see how it goes. I will pull him if it ever seems like he’s coasting, but for now, he has the work ethic and the support to learn at his own pace. We are very fortunate to have our school - I can’t envision it working most places. 

[quark]

Nueva is supposed to be one such school in the Bay Area.

 

Nueva's cut off is at 130, so possibly more of a HG school than PG? I have heard of PG kids being happy in school...usually until a certain age. Late elementary seems to be the tipping point even with the extroverts. Good to hear it's not always the case.

[Loesje22000]

Because we are foreigners in this country we send dd to school for 'integration'.

I still think that was a good idea.

'We tried and it didn't work' is more acceptable here then 'I'm against schools in general'.

 

Dd went from 2,5yo - 5,5yo to school and still remembers the negative experience.

That motivates her to fulfill the requirements as she still doesn't want to back to school.

She knows she would learn less in more time if she would be in school.

[Laura Corin]

I might.

 

Calvin went to school at 4 3/4 (youngest in class but not grade-skipped).  It was not a good fit (too big, too noisy) and he wasn't very engaged, but it was his slow motor skills that were the major problem.

 

The Montessori school that he went to for one year (full time) and one year (part time) would have been a good fit for him, I think.  They were happy with different levels and he could work ahead.  Again, it was the motor skills that were the problem.

 

Hobbes didn't go to school at that age.

[Grover]

We have just trialed school for our 8 (now 9) and 6 year olds.  While I do think where we tried turned out to be a particularly poor example, and it *could* have worked for at least the younger for a while, I think 8 is probably the limit for my kids anyway.  I *wish* there were another option here for us... but there isn't and here I am!

[SKL]

My kids are probably better off in school.  The social aspect is of value to them.  The structure and routine is helpful to all of us.  While my AL doesn't feel "challenged" by the curriculum, she has access to thousands of books and time to read them.  (Last Friday she read and tested on 8 biographies just for fun.)  And she listens better to her teachers than to me.  :p  So no, I would not change the fact that my kids are in b&m school.

Edited January 17, 2016 by SKL

[Runningmom80]

I think LOG has a lot to do with this. An MG kid will probably do much better in a B&M school than a PG kid, generally speaking.

[Mike in SA]

There are B&M schools for PG kids.

 

The only one I am aware of requires relocating to Reno - nice city, but there isn't a ton of work to be found.  There are a few dozen GT schools around the country - the USN and Newsweek top high schools lists read like a who's who - but they aren't generally prepared for the radical asynchronicity that is common with PG kids.

 

That said, there are options out there which are worth investigation.  We found Basis to have excellent teachers able to provide depth, but it was just too small to accommodate acceleration beyond mathematics.

 

 

I think LOG has a lot to do with this. An MG kid will probably do much better in a B&M school than a PG kid, generally speaking.

 

I think this is spot on.  Also, the choice of charter, magnet, or GT schools matters to some kids.

[mathmarm]

I think LOG has a lot to do with this. An MG kid will probably do much better in a B&M school than a PG kid, generally speaking.

I don't now what LOG, MG and PG mean.

 

Jr is in an outdoor immersion preschool.

 

[Dmmetler]

I would imagine Proof School and some of the math/science magnets probably would be a good setting for some kids, too. As are some of the performing arts schools. I would also imagine access to really, really awesome after school programs with like-minded kids could make a less than ideal, but flexible, school setting more possible to manage. I suspect we could make school work in San Francisco or New York City, and maybe others.

 

I also think that in some ways, it's easier to find a good high school fit than an elementary one. High schools usually have multiple programs and options within a school, and kids are better at self-advocating at that age. Elementary options tend to be very limited. (We're on the outskirts of a pretty big city, and there was one zoned elementary, a slim chance of being able to do a choice transfer to a non-zoned school, and about a dozen private schools that were a reasonable drive.) And specialized programs and magnets seem to be more common at the high school level (although the fact that my DD, at barely age 8, made the cutoff on the EXPLORE for the Magnet Math/Science high school, which US News considered the top in the state at that time made going to public school pretty unlikely for her as long as we live here!)

Edited January 17, 2016 by dmmetler

[Zoo Keeper]

I don't now what LOG, MG and PG mean.

 

Jr is in an outdoor immersion preschool.

I think she means Level of Giftedness, Moderately Gifted, Profoundly Gifted...

[Laura Corin]

I don't now what LOG, MG and PG mean.

Level of Giftedness; moderately gifted, profoundly gifted.

 

Personality is important too.  Calvin tested PG but is, in general, a restrained personality who can cope with gleaning the value from a class even if it doesn't precisely match his level.  He did fine, ending up going to a good university after going back to school at 13, so school from 4 to 7; then again from 13 to 17.

[RoundAbout]

My son was homeschooled for K and 1st and then we moved to a major city with a self-contained accelerated program.  A whole huge elementary school with kids in the top 2% on the CogAt and and supposedly 2 grades ahead in all subjects, using Singapore math, etc.  My son easily qualified for the program, we tried it for 6 months, and then went back to homeschooling.

 

Was not even remotely enough. He was the top reader in his class and in the highest math group and the work was not challenging except for maybe writing because they focused on quantity over quality.    DS was either bored and acting out or stressed out from the endless "assessments."  He liked being around other kids, but had turned into a class clown and a bit of a bully because of the boredom.  The only time he was engaged and focused was in art and his after school math circle.  Many of the kids were into nerdy things like Minecraft, but few seemed to have academic interests so he had friends but didn't really have a peer group on that level. 

 

I don't see any way we could have made it work.  DS does best when he has a lot of physical and intellectual stimulation.  School did not have either of those and he was actually becoming less mature in that environment.  So we do school at home, give him a ton of physical activity, and work to get social opportunities for him.  The YMCA has been great for us as he gets to play there in both structured and unstructured ways, with a variety of kids from different ethnicities, socio-economic backgrounds, and ages.  

[wapiti]

LOG = level of giftedness, MG = moderately gifted, HG = highly gifted, PG = profoundly gifted

 

Even in retrospect, I have a hard time knowing what the right decision was.  For us, so much depends on the individual kid's strengths and weaknesses and motivation level as well as the particular school and teachers.  With MG and HG kids who tend toward 2e-ish with math strengths, the trickier grades have been 4-5-6.

 

In the big picture, I think of the school decision as a matter of fit.  If you do decide to go with school, my advice is to be disciplined about afterschooling, particularly in math, assuming that's a strength.  I would also advise substantial review prior to any placement tests, particularly prior to starting at a middle school where such testing seems to be common.  Our local schools also do some testing at the beginning of the school year (not that the results lead to action, but I suppose different schools are different in this regard).

Edited January 18, 2016 by wapiti

[wapiti]

It seems to me that there are two issues with B&M schools:  Faith in the child's abilities and the flexibility and resources to accommodate them.  I think many elementary schools lack both the flexibility and resources even if they have faith in the child.   But a school could have the resources and lack the faith, and then it's parents advocating against a brick wall.  I totally understand why a lot of parents simply homeschool given these situations.

 

That's an interesting way to put it.  In our area, generally, the elementary schools lack the flexibility/resources and the middle/high schools don't work on faith, only on what has been proved to have been mastered.

 

I can't believe what basic things ds might have forgotten on a recent test, from what little he told me, stuff he learned two years ago that would take two minutes to review, and I sit here slapping my forehead.  OTOH I can see why the school doesn't work on faith with high-school-level math but on what the student can prove.  His loss may be a grade level of math though that's not such a big deal for a student already far ahead. (Keeping my fingers crossed still...)

Edited January 18, 2016 by wapiti

[Arcadia]

I can't believe what basic things ds might have forgotten on a recent test, from what little he told me, stuff he learned two years ago that would take two minutes to review, and I sit here slapping my forehead.

Did your child get a heads up about the placement test? My kids did get a few days notice and they were expected to revise for their placement tests.

 

As for faith and resources, the teachers my kids get had the faith but admin wants the paper trail because so many parents want to accelerate their kid. Probably why they drop the gifted program when they have an excuse to. Resources wise, my district is financially okay with the high property tax funding but don't want to spend. The parents have to know the state laws and advocate.

[quark]

(edited: I don't mean to make Proof sound like it's not a good fit for many math gifted kids, sorry.)

 

Do be aware that Proof also bumps kids down the next block level if they don't perceive them keeping up. The kid could be lagging behind due to asynchronous factors (based on the reports they give, you can tell what the factors are). I think Proof is a good alternative, perhaps one of the best the Bay Area has now, but from families I know there reporting back, teachers still don't understand asynchronous development. But I also think there are teachers there who do. Perhaps in a year or two this will improve...I am sure the teachers are growing and learning too.

Edited January 17, 2016 by quark

[Runningmom80]

I will disagree. We found its the resources and the restrictions that matter. We had access to well educated teachers...the type with solid undergrad prep from respected colleges, with a Masters in Ed plus an academic subject, if not a PhD in their subject, app 15 years experience in gifted ed (usually with a masters in gifted), plus the ties in the scholarly world to direct students who needed more. Before full inclusion, they were able to teach the child. After, they were restricted to teaching the curriculum and could only point the Child in the right direction. Then the academic ecs such as science fair and math club were eliminated, as well as independent study and courses not needed for the Advanced Regents Diploma (such as AP science, math after Alg. 2, FL3, etc). Students were directed to skip and grad early, rather than receive an excellent education. Some schools where everyone can learn are still available...but only in wealthy areas, where the majority of parents want learning Instead of babysitting. The PG student path is heavily personalized. We found ours...its rather like underground railroad stations now, as the district we are in isnt interested in broadcasting the existence. I dont recommend that path, as the jealous actively seek to destroy, but thats all that is available to the poor. Its really sad when the teachers tell the kid to retake a course, then have them sit at the back of the room, telling everyone they are reviewing and available to tutor, when the teacher is really providing unofficial independent study with the resources he used to teach the class before the full inclusion dumb down.

Yeah that's why I said generally. I stand by my opinion the in many, if not most cases, a PG kid at a B&M elementary school is going to require a ton of advocacy and probably (probably! Not always,) still not be a good fit. (Unless it's a school for the top tenth of a percent. )

 

I also agree that high school is a different topic, and probably (!) easier to navigate for a PG kid.

[Have kids -- will travel]

Asking a homeschooling board about B&M schooling is slightly self-selective, if you catch what I mean. As a former (light) homeschooler who has since gone back to work, I don't post here much but like to read on occasion.

 

Our boys are definitely on the higher end of the scale (older tested 3+ standard deviations above average for his age in reading and math, younger seems to do everything faster and better), and they are very happy at school. Our older has benefited from the attention on fine motor (school got him to grade level, he refused at home) and dramatically improved in his emotional control. He loves the projects, interactions with classmates and teachers, and special parts of school like P.E. and D.E. (digital education). The school is also very receptive to exceptional children.

 

Younger's school is 100% play. The theme now is transport, and there's a pretend airplane, with ticket office (and laminated fake money), and a pretend rocket with planets and stars. He loves his teacher and is developing social skills and doing messy art projects that I don't like to do at home.

 

This is a private school that caters almost exclusively to parents with STEM degrees, so YMMV. But don't discount school in general based on a homeschooling board. Homeschooling is definitely right for many families, but school is a good option for others.

[slackermom]

 

 

Even in retrospect, I have a hard time knowing what the right decision was.  For us, so much depends on the individual kid's strengths and weaknesses and motivation level as well as the particular school and teachers.  With MG and HG kids who tend toward 2e-ish with math strengths, the trickier grades have been 4-5-6.

 

This was basically what we experienced. Although dd was obviously way ahead of her classmates, there were still some benefits to school up through grade 2. But in grade 3, it became obvious that we were at the end of the road for dd, school-wise. The learning gap between her and her classmates was too big, and she was starving for more education. She had outgrown elementary, but middle school certainly wasn't the answer yet. Plus, that was the year standardized tests began to count for the school's (and teacher's) performance, so no differentiation allowed.

 

We finally pulled her from school in grade 4 (after a trial run at a magnet school), and homeschooled through the end of grade 5. For grade 6, I found a middle school that allows mathy 6th graders to skip regular grade 6 math, take advanced/compressed pre-A, and stay with that group of accelerated math students for a deeper Algebra and Geo in grades 7 and 8.

[nobeatenpath]

My DS was in childcare 13 months to age 3.5, then French-English preschool to 4.5. This was all great

We moved to the UK and he did 18 months at school, which was not good - he was so bored as he was way more advanced than what he was being asked to do and the school was not able/willing to work to his strengths. I wish we had just started homeschooling on moving to the UK, but at that stage I was unsure what was happening with me workwise.

 

So when it is play based/socialising I think it can have real benefits. When it starts being about 'academics/learning' (whatever you want to classify it as) it really depends on if you can find a school that will stretch your kid appropriately (not just throw extra work at them for the sake of it for example).

[ebunny]

disclaimer: Schools in India are more or less equal, and relatively safe for children.

 

DD was homeschooled 1st-2nd grade and went to a B/M school in 3rd. Now she is 10 and in grade 5.

 

Academically, she is spinning her wheels, if you will. But, then she didn't go back to school for the academics. She went back because she is an only child and wanted to be around other kids. She had this image in her head where she is surrounded by other like minded curious children. (Turned out to be a mirage :tongue_smilie: )

 

Yet, she enjoys school most of the time. She mostly enjoys interacting with different teachers, and her classmates. She likes group activities. She's learning a good deal of soft skills- engage with children from diverse cultures, abilities, mindsets. YMMV.

She is a playful highly extroverted child, so school- time is play time. Academics are not even on the radar, which is depressing; but the alternative is homeschooling- Not a good idea for us as a family, given our context.

 

FWIW, a huge % of a positive schooling experience is the childs personality. LOG is important, but not the whole picture. If the child's abilities are synchronous, s/he might adapt in a school setting, despite being HG/PG. But, an extremely asynchronous child will have trouble in a age-grade set up.

 

ETA: Had second thoughts and deleted personal info.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2016 by ebunny

[ThoughtfulMama]

We are still early in the process, but he is flourishing in his first 2 years in a private B&M school.  The school is excellent, the teachers are really in tune with him, and the other students are kind.  Academically he is not really learning much, and what he does learn is usually mastered in a few minutes.  But he is also getting Art, Music, Spanish, Chinese, and lots and lots of outside free play time.  I don't know exactly what the future holds, but a great decision for now.

Note: DS has not been tested, but I'd probably put him at EG.  When I look at scales and lists, I would usually place him at PG, but I feel that he is somehow too well-adjusted for that level to fit well.

[Arcadia]

Note: DS has not been tested, but I'd probably put him at EG. When I look at scales and lists, I would usually place him at PG, but I feel that he is somehow too well-adjusted for that level to fit well.

My ISTP PG kid is the one who enjoys B&M school and all along B&M classes. Comically both kids are introverts according to those Meyer Briggs quizzes but they both love to be surrounded by people.

 

There are always stereotype defying examples :lol:

[Dmmetler]

In my DD's case, she craves peers and people, but being in the same room isn't enough. They have to be focused on the same, or similar goals. If they aren't, it wears her down really fast-a half-day co-op is about all she can manage, even though she really likes the kids in the group (and, for the most part, is accepted as just being her because they've all known each other for so long. A big part of the problem is that she doesn't overlap most of the kids here in interests much. Or, what they're really focused on is something that, for her, is ok, but not exciting. I've tried to keep her "up" on pop culture, and she tends to associate with the "geek culture" kids who are into comic books, Star Wars, Doctor Who, etc, but she's definitely a "oh, that's kind of neat" or "yeah, I enjoy the show", not "I'm in line hours before in full costume when the movie comes out!"

 

So, our group is doing a science of Star Wars co-op this Spring for middle/high school. DD sat through the planning meeting, kind of tuned out-she likes Star Wars ok, but she isn't a mega fan, until on the list of topics biomes came up-at which point she popped up, said she'd lead that unit, and started planning how to use the Star Wars planets to teach biogeography and biodiversity. After all, Tatooine DOES have some pretty impressive reptiles...

 

She'll be fine through the robotics and other topics-but it's the chance to share what SHE loves via the avenue of Star Wars that will give her that common goal and that lens that will let her be truly a part of the group. And if she feels part of the group and that there's a common goal, it won't really matter that she is academically pretty far advanced compared to everyone else there.

 

I think for DD, something like proof school may well be a better fit than DA. A school where everyone shares a common interest, and math is an interest for her, even though it's not her primary one, would probably be something she'd enjoy. And if we could find a "zoo school" focused on animal behavior, conservation, husbandry, and creating educational materials and advocacy programs, with multiple science tracks each leveled every day, well, I think she'd be in heaven.

[Runningmom80]

Asking a homeschooling board about B&M schooling is slightly self-selective, if you catch what I mean. As a former (light) homeschooler who has since gone back to work, I don't post here much but like to read on occasion.

 

Our boys are definitely on the higher end of the scale (older tested 3+ standard deviations above average for his age in reading and math, younger seems to do everything faster and better), and they are very happy at school. Our older has benefited from the attention on fine motor (school got him to grade level, he refused at home) and dramatically improved in his emotional control. He loves the projects, interactions with classmates and teachers, and special parts of school like P.E. and D.E. (digital education). The school is also very receptive to exceptional children.

 

Younger's school is 100% play. The theme now is transport, and there's a pretend airplane, with ticket office (and laminated fake money), and a pretend rocket with planets and stars. He loves his teacher and is developing social skills and doing messy art projects that I don't like to do at home.

 

This is a private school that caters almost exclusively to parents with STEM degrees, so YMMV. But don't discount school in general based on a homeschooling board. Homeschooling is definitely right for many families, but school is a good option for others.

 

While I agree this isn't the best place to get an unbiased opinion of home school vs b&m school, I think this particular board probably has more reluctant home schoolers than the others, aside from the special needs board.  Outliers don't tend to do well in a setting that is teaching to the middle.  We are reluctant home schoolers, not ideological home schoolers, so my opinion is not shaded by any predetermined beliefs about home schooling. 

[Incognito]

In my DD's case, she craves peers and people, but being in the same room isn't enough. They have to be focused on the same, or similar goals. If they aren't, it wears her down really fast-a half-day co-op is about all she can manage, even though she really likes the kids in the group (and, for the most part, is accepted as just being her because they've all known each other for so long. A big part of the problem is that she doesn't overlap most of the kids here in interests much. Or, what they're really focused on is something that, for her, is ok, but not exciting. I've tried to keep her "up" on pop culture, and she tends to associate with the "geek culture" kids who are into comic books, Star Wars, Doctor Who, etc, but she's definitely a "oh, that's kind of neat" or "yeah, I enjoy the show", not "I'm in line hours before in full costume when the movie comes out!"

 

So, our group is doing a science of Star Wars co-op this Spring for middle/high school. DD sat through the planning meeting, kind of tuned out-she likes Star Wars ok, but she isn't a mega fan, until on the list of topics biomes came up-at which point she popped up, said she'd lead that unit, and started planning how to use the Star Wars planets to teach biogeography and biodiversity. After all, Tatooine DOES have some pretty impressive reptiles...

 

She'll be fine through the robotics and other topics-but it's the chance to share what SHE loves via the avenue of Star Wars that will give her that common goal and that lens that will let her be truly a part of the group. And if she feels part of the group and that there's a common goal, it won't really matter that she is academically pretty far advanced compared to everyone else there.

 

I think for DD, something like proof school may well be a better fit than DA. A school where everyone shares a common interest, and math is an interest for her, even though it's not her primary one, would probably be something she'd enjoy. And if we could find a "zoo school" focused on animal behavior, conservation, husbandry, and creating educational materials and advocacy programs, with multiple science tracks each leveled every day, well, I think she'd be in heaven.

 

Slightly OT, but dmmetler, have you heard of the high school at the MN zoo?  It is a regular high school, so perhaps it wouldn't suit, but if they would allow early entry, it would be FULL of kids that have similar interests, and a lot of courses that focus on what you mention.  http://sesmn.org/  Also, in MN juniors and seniors can take college courses for credit for free at various institutions (this is called "post secondary enrolment options" I believe).

Edited January 24, 2016 by Incognito

[Mike in SA]

While I agree this isn't the best place to get an unbiased opinion of home school vs b&m school, I think this particular board probably has more reluctant home schoolers than the others, aside from the special needs board.  Outliers don't tend to do well in a setting that is teaching to the middle.  We are reluctant home schoolers, not ideological home schoolers, so my opinion is not shaded by any predetermined beliefs about home schooling. 

 

So much this.  We'd do B&M in a heartbeat if it would work.  Heck, we're going to try again with older DS, simply because high school here offers more flexibility than earlier grades.

 

Younger DS may unfortunately be out of the system forever.

[Donna]

Looking back, I would not have put dd in a B&M school and I won't going forward either.

 

My oldest ds started out in a private school for preschool. He ended up being the class clown (running out of the room, climbing to dance on tables, talking constantly). He preferred being sent to talk to the principal than staying in class because he was bored out of his mind. The school offered to put him in K a year early but I didn't see how that was going to be any different and it was very expensive so, after a lot of research and soul-searching, I ended up homeschooling. Later, I put both her brothers in school in 8th at their request. Her oldest brother went through high school in school for sports reasons and it was not a good academic fit for him. There was no pushing them to teach him at the level he was already learning and he had to retake a number of classes. He learned to skate through without doing much work and I think, lost his love of learning in general. Middle ds came back home in 11th and is finishing up school at home.

 

I believe homeschooling dd has been instrumental in allowing her the freedom to pursue those areas she loves without any input from same age peers…telling her what is and isn't "cool." It has allowed her time to practice her music hours and hours a day without giving up free time to "be a kid" and have a life outside music and academics. Following her interests in academics has kept a love of learning alive.

 

Dd has found her "peers" in the people who share her interests. Luckily as she gets older, we find more who are "closer" to her in age (rather than 40+ year old musicians in pubs...though there are still plenty of those). It takes work to find and a lot of driving but in the past couple years, there have been more and more opportunities for her to work with other teen musicians (and older musicians) on arranging, rehearsing, performing, and recording their music. Dd is a happy, well adjusted kid who knows who she is and what she wants in life.

 

Editing to add: If there were an option for a gifted or school for the arts in our area, I can't say I wouldn't look into it for dd. I think she'd love it…or would love some sort of part school/part homeschool option if the right programs were available to her.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Donna

[Dmmetler]

Slightly OT, but dmmetler, have you heard of the high school at the MN zoo?  It is a regular high school, so perhaps it wouldn't suit, but if they would allow early entry, it would be FULL of kids that have similar interests, and a lot of courses that focus on what you mention.  http://sesmn.org/  Also, in MN juniors and seniors can take college courses for credit for free at various institutions (this is called "post secondary enrolment options" I believe).

 

That looks like something she'd love. Any chance that anyone knows of a similar program farther South? It might be harder to talk my husband into Minnesota than into Reno!

[Mike in SA]

That looks like something she'd love. Any chance that anyone knows of a similar program farther South? It might be harder to talk my husband into Minnesota than into Reno!

Our zoo does, but only preschool...

[Dmmetler]

Our zoo does, but only preschool...

I've seen a few elementary magnets that have a zoo as a sponsor (my nieces go to one in Orlando that is affiliated with Sea World), but in practice it's usually that they have a couple of good field trips a year, but no other extra instruction.

[....]

If you tried a B&M school for your AL in the early years, was it a mistake?

Would you do it again? If so, what would you have done differently?

 

Yes, it was and if I could do it all over again, I would have started off homeschooling the two older ones.

[SeaConquest]

My oldest ds started out in a private school for preschool. He ended up being the class clown (running out of the room, climbing to dance on tables, talking constantly). He preferred being sent to talk to the principal than staying in class because he was bored out of his mind. 

 

 

This was my experience as well. Sacha went to three preschools to try to keep him busy -- immersion French and Spanish 2-4 times/week, and Hebrew school (non-immersion) on Sundays. It wasn't enough. I still found us afterschooling math, reading, and science, and he was regularly in the director's office at school.

 

Gifted testing doesn't begin in SD Unified until the end of 2nd grade, with pullout gifted programs beginning in 3rd. After our preschool experience, there was no way that I was going to put him in an English language public school class for K-2. I cannot imagine the trouble he would have been in.

 

We may apply to a few of the top private schools in our area for middle or high school, but we would need a ton of financial aid for it to be doable. Even if he got in, the amount of homework and pressure cooker environment at these schools may be too much for him. He is a pretty gentle soul. We will see. It is far down the road and my DS1 is still very young. So, for now, we are enjoying homeschooling the elementary years. If we get enough aid, I will probably let him make the decision about whether to go. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by SeaConquest

[SanDiegoMom]

This was my experience as well. Sacha went to three preschools to try to keep him busy -- immersion French and Spanish 2-4 times/week, and Hebrew school (non-immersion) on Sundays. It wasn't enough. I still found us afterschooling math, reading, and science, and he was regularly in the director's office at school.

 

Gifted testing doesn't begin in SD Unified until the end of 2nd grade, with pullout gifted programs beginning in 3rd. After our preschool experience, there was no way that I was going to put him in an English language public school class for K-2. I cannot imagine the trouble he would have been in.

 

We may apply to a few of the top private schools in our area for middle or high school, but we would need a ton of financial aid for it to be doable. Even if he got in, the amount of homework and pressure cooker environment at these schools may be too much for him. He is a pretty gentle soul. We will see. It is far down the road and my DS1 is still very young. So, for now, we are enjoying homeschooling the elementary years. If we get enough aid, I will probably let him make the decision about whether to go. 

 

 

Do they still have the seminar program there? The Gate program in PUSD was pretty abysmal.  Except for MAYBE clustering the kids in one classroom with slightly differentiated materials. But there was so little emphasis on it parents didn't even know which teachers  taught the clusters! 

[SeaConquest]

Do they still have the seminar program there? The Gate program in PUSD was pretty abysmal.  Except for MAYBE clustering the kids in one classroom with slightly differentiated materials. But there was so little emphasis on it parents didn't even know which teachers  taught the clusters! 

 

As far as I know, they do have the seminar program, but it is a part of GATE. I believe that you need to score higher on the Raven to qualify for seminar, and that not all schools have it. But, even that doesn't start until 3rd grade, and I haven't heard the greatest things about the program from parents of other gifted kids in SD.

 

I would consider Bishop's or Parker for middle or high school, if we had sufficient aid and Sacha wanted to do it. But, I have friends with elementary kids at Warren Walker and they are already slammed with homework. I'm a burnout myself, and I'm just not sure I want that kind of stress for my kid. 

[LisaKinVA]

In short, no.  Not for elementary.

 

Oldest son was academically ready for K, but failed the readiness test on social/emotional and fine motor skills.  Our local schools didn't accommodate/accelerate until high school.

They would have insisted on 2 full grade-skips for PonyGirl.  I don't believe in graduating early, unless it is driven by the student.  She had some very bad experiences with the girls in her Troop because of academics, which massively put her off school.  She likes going at her own pace and choosing her path.

PokeMan had same issues, but greater, as LEGOManiac, except he is less tractable.  When he is bored he would have been an disciplinary problem.

Blondie went...loved the social aspects, but she actually wound up placing a grade ahead (she was on-level with Abeka at home).  See graduating early from PonyGirl.

Boo...she has some significant speech  delays which have impacted her reading.  Again, social aspects were fine, but academic aspects not-so-great.

 

Our elementary schools have been less than flexible when it comes to learning needs AND social/emotional needs of accelerated learners.

 

We have opted to let our middle school and high schoolers take some courses at the middle/high school -- because they do allow for more differentiation.  Pokeman can take math at the high school and PE with the 7th graders, PonyGirl can take AP Physics 1 and Precalculus with the juniors and seniors -- without *having* to be a junior or senior.  

 

If the schools had more differentiated learning at the elementary level, I would probably consider it -- but there is not.