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MisH
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*SIGH* My boys are 9 1/2 and 7.8 years old. Both with Severe-Profound Dyslexia. This is our second year of homeschooling and they have made SOOOOO much progress (ds1 is *reading* now, for example!!!!!!). BUT, hubby is still not entirely on board. He still worries ALOT about the "socialization" aspect (man, I hate that word!) of being "at home every day".

He has voiced this to me before, but last night had some dream (not about us or our boys) that caused the worries to resurface/become prevalent (I suspect he worries about it more than he has told me). He worries that our boys don't / won't have friends, that they "won't ever have a girlfriend because they won't have the social skills", that they "won't ever get to go to a school dance" (cuz those are so full of positive experiences?!?, hmmph).

Currently, we go to Co-op every Friday (drawback, it is on opposite side of town (30ish minutes) from where we live, so pretty much only see those kids at Co-op) where my boys Love to go and see friends they've made. We to to Y PE (once a week) where they also have friends. We to 4H (meetings once a month; Archery once a week). And we have done a few other classes here and there (art, music, etc). 

 

What else can I do to reassure my hubby (without handing him lots of articles/reading material....he won't read!) that our boys are not going to turn into social misfits simply by not being IN a school all day everyday with same age kids?

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I urge you to find children/families that seem to be a good fit and invite them to meet at the park or at your house or something on a regular basis.  Maybe have board game night every two weeks and have unstructured play time afterwards.  Are there any neighbors that might like to come over?  Or meet at the park?  What about Scouting?  Sometimes Scouting or sports will give children an opportunity to get to know kids better.  

 

Getting into all of those things you mentioned is nice, but friendships really develop with consistent contact and preferably some unstructured play time.  When a child is younger that contact needs to be in person.  As they hit the teen years phone calls and text messages can be substituted to some extent but at the ages you are talking they need to see other kids in an unstructured environment at least some of the time.  I would work hard on finding ways to get the boys that contact now while they are young.  

 

FWIW, being in school does not guarantee friends and the environment in a school setting is actually not normal for our society.  You are trapped with same age peers all day long.  You do not interact much at all with kids who are older and can give you some guidance or younger and who might appreciate your own words of wisdom and experience,  which you would normally do as an adult.  I think PS can also discourage kids from developing personal interests since they don't have much time to pursue those interests.  They may be overly influenced by peers and fail to find themselves.  Not everyone.  For some PS is great.  I just think it can be a poor fit for others.  And a lot of schools have cut out recess and other activities where friendships used to form.

 

I will say that since my DD was in a brick and mortar school through 5th grade she appreciates homeschooling more and has made friends in the homeschooling community that are closer to her than her school friends were.  She loves homeschooling.  She loves how much time she has to pursue personal interests and that also gives her time to find others who genuinely share those same interests.  As for dances and such, I don't know about the homeschooling groups in your area, but we do have dances here.  One is a huge prom that happens every year in another town.  Lots of homeschoolers come to it.  Our own homeschooling group had a Spring Formal last year.  The Student Council of our homeschooling group turned our house into a Bistro with formal tables and decorations and lighting.  They invited other homeschoolers from another homeschooling group as well as the kids from our group.  We had a dance floor and everything.  The kids had a blast.  Every family brought food so it wasn't a huge burden on anyone and the evening went amazingly well.  The Middle Schoolers acted as wait staff.  They had special t-shirts for the occasion.  

 

Homeschooling groups are what you make them.  Maybe you can find other homeschoolers in your area.  You could banned together and start a social group.  Or maybe a book club or a history club or a lego club and make sure to incorporate some free time to play and interact.  Rotate houses so it isn't a burden on one person.

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I agree with OneStep. 

 

My oldest had many more friends after beginning to hs than when she was in ps. My second wanted more friends than she had while hsing. Now that she's out in a private high school, she has more friends but realizes they aren't the best influences and has been choosing to spend more time with her hs friends instead. My next one has a problem making friends and she does need more and better friends. Sometimes I think school would help, but I think it would be even better if she were willing to join a coop or another social group.

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My 16yo is extremely social.  In the fall, he took a very pretty and sweet girl to a dance.  He eats lunch with friends after class on Thursday, and I just had 7 teenagers in my house watching a movie, snacking out, and burning down our Christmas tree.  Son's closest friend lives a 20 minutes drive away.  It takes about 40 minutes to get to his friend that he's known since pre-k.  Social events are not an issue for us. 

Edited by Heathermomster
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I *think* there is a group that does do a big prom type dance....not something I have looked into yet! (but, maybe I should...if only to assure hubby!)

My boys do also both do sports via the Y.

I suppose hubby's biggest statement is the lack of seeing a kid/group of kids on a daily basis (e.g., as they would in a school). And, the idea that just being IN a school automatically guarantees friendship will happen (as it seems he feels) is just silly to me. In fact, I think ds1 would struggle (he did go to kindy in a school system and had 1 good friend and a few "friends".....BUT, he also told me on a daily basis that he (ds1) was stupid and he cried about not wanting to go to school.....not cool).  I feel like he would struggle in a ps because he would get farther and farther "behind" (i.e., never REALLY learn to read) resulting in lower and lower confidence and all of the problems that go with that.

 

We live on what has become a busy "through" street (people use it to get from one main road to another. our road itself is not a main road) with no sidewalk in front of our house. There are also not really many kids on our road. There is a "neighborhood" down the street and we have friends who live there. 

 

I would LOVE to find a group (or even a family) with whom we all "click".....but that is SO very difficult to do it seems! The struggle, even then, is trying to get together what with different schedules (between my boys, we have something every Tues, Wed, and Thurs evening already) when THEY are busy AND we are busy.

 

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Look, people for hundreds and thousands of years have lived without having access to 200 agemates, and they developed proper social skills JUST FINE.  The real question is whether the dc actually has some kind of social delay or social skills problems that the dh is seeing.  That's NOT an unreasonable question.  They've had psych evals to get diagnosed, yes?  And what did the psych say?  Psychs are more than happy to diagnose social delay if it's there, and excellent materials exist.  

 

What actually happens in school is sort of a peer centeredness.  It can have some really good things it does, like nurturing independence.  Are your dc independent in an age-appropriate way?  I definitely agree it's an issue if our kids are not having opportunities to do these things and mature and grow.  You're doing some things with them, sort of a typical-ish amount.  Are they showing age-typical conversation and self-help skills when they're there?  Do they initiate conversations, ask questions, show sympathy, have appropriate play, etc?  Are they proactive and doing things for themselves that they can?

 

You know, this is sort of a rabbit trail, but are they independent around the house?  Are you doing things for them (because they're young, because they have SLDs) or do they have work they're expected to do?  

 

I would ask your dh what specific social skills he feels are missing.  I think it's a totally valid question whether they have age-appropriate social skills and adaptive living skills, but there's no data to say kids have to be in large group settings for that to occur.  Most good socialization occurs with excellent models (you!) and interaction with a variety of ages.  My dd was an only for years, and OH the criticism you get with an only!!  If you have 8 kids, oh yeah plenty of socialization, haha.  But if you have an only, people throw it at you ALL THE TIME.  My dd is AWESOME socially.  That whole thing is such bunk.  She's just not peer-centered.  She knows her own mind, interacts appropriately with lots of ages, and doesn't have the biases common to kids who are raised in age-segregated groups.  

 

Also, this does not have to be a choice for ever.  You could decide right now, say through 5th or 6th, home, where they can receive intensive remediation, is the best place.  And maybe you decide they hit a dyslexia school somewhere for 7th-8th to fill in some holes you're weak on.  Maybe you move to get closer to one.  Then maybe you decide another option is best for high school.  You can change like that and go with what fits the need at the time.  Most people drop out at some point.  I'm not saying it has to be that way, but stats (even here on the boards if you watch) are that most people leave hs'ing eventually.  That's why it's so amazing when people do finish, because it's not as common as you'd think.  So it's ok to say you know, right NOW this is the right choice, but maybe LATER another choice will be better.

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Oh Elizabeth - Truly, thank you for your thoughts and insights! It made me think about those things in a more definitive way....and to realize that I have ZERO concerns regarding my boys' social skills or ability to appropriately interact or do age appropriate tasks. They are able to be independent around the house, interact at Co-op, PE, sports, etc with all of the ages of people they encounter. They occasionally require a cue or prompt to respond verbally (rather than head nod) or more politely ("yes, please" rather than "yeah")....but, I'm thinking that that is normal!! 

Perhaps that is why hubby's concerns throw me... because I see my boys as being as without social difficulties at this point. (though, I assure you I am the type who, when there is a problem is the first to say "ok, here it is, let's get help!)..... I would Love to live in a nice little cul-de-sac and have all the houses around us with kids around our boys' ages....but, well, that's just not very likely to happen!!

So, I feel like we are doing about enough .... for now .... and that we can add/change things as we go along on this journey!

Again, though, thank you all for all thoughts and inputs! Sometimes it is nice to have things thought about from others perspectives!

 

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Yes!  And I think it's really important to sort that out, like what he means.  If there are no social skills problems and everything in the realm of typical, then his man speech (cuz that's what they've got) means something ELSE.  Like he means your boys won't know how to jockey in locker rooms and pat butts?  Won't be in on the lingo?  Won't have girlfriends?  Kwim?  And you can even approach that really sensitively, like wow tell me about what you most appreciated about your school experience...  We can let some of that come out, kwim?  

 

I think the thing to know is that, barring actual disabilities and delays (which make things harder, sigh), you can replace the things he values and wants to have happen.  It's just a matter of getting out of him what he means.  Our hs groups around here put on dances, plays, do yearbooks, bonfires, fieldtrips.  You can do all your competition things, join the ps sports.  I've sent my dd to multiple summer camps (fun, drama, etc.), trying to make sure she gets in with a variety of people.  She has joined online groups for her particular interests.  She's just friends with all kinds of people, across ages and interests.  I feel really bad for kids in school, because they're limited to such a narrow pool.   ;)

 

Adding: Some things are only obvious in hindsight.  Sometimes they just need time to see it coming together.  

Edited by OhElizabeth
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I agree with what everyone else said but just want to mention that you might just have to be willing to drive across town to meet up with people more often.

We live in a rural area, with families scattered about an hour to an hour & a half from each other. & with no other groups around for hundreds of miles, we just accept that to meet up, we must all drive.

Also echoing the point that kids only make true friends from getting together repeatedly for free play (not classes). You'll likely never find the perfect co op, but find 1-2 families you like & set stuff up with them. Free play things like the park, the beach, hiking, backyard play, etc- that's how kids make friends, not just acquaintances.

 

Good luck! We're in the middle of nowhere & have started our own groups & activities to have things to go to & friends to play with. Don't discount public schooled friends either. Set up play dates with the kids at sports, or scouts, or wherever...

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My boy tells me when he needs to be with his friends.  DH doesn't need to tell me because my son is very clear. Treasure this moment of contentment because your boys will eventually start wanting to hang out with their friends but can't drive.  At that time,  you can hand over the car keys to your husband and suggest he take them where they need to go because socialization is very important. And then there will be cell phones and a cash transfer.

 

Regular schooling is always an option for later and I am thankful that OhE mentioned that. During the logic stage, DS sat in the classroom and his biggest issue was feeling different and using his accommodations.  Peer pressure is huge at that age, and he did not want to be the only student using a calculator in math.  One or two students gave him grief about it.  DS only felt comfortable using a math facts chart because one was already handing on his math classroom wall....  Get this.  A substitute teacher administered the 6th grade math final.  There was a failure in the system and the substitute would not allow DS to use his math facts sheet or calculator.  The teacher singled my boy out in front of the entire class and was terse, telling him to put the items away.  Afterwards, one of the vocal students that did not like DS being accommodated actually rose his hand and requested the substitute teacher remove the math facts sheet from the wall, which the teacher did.  How is that for socialization?  

 

 

Edited by Heathermomster
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Oh wow Heather, that's WICKED.  Like really, what an unwelcoming approach to SN was going on in that classroom to have that!!  By contrast, look at the Special Books by Special Kids FB feed, and see how this guy (who admittedly is teaching a spec ed class, not mainstreamed), creates POSITIVE, affirming, welcoming vibes for all kids with all disabilities.  But no, in that class they could be like total daggers in the back constantly, equivalent to KNOCKING GLASSES OFF A PERSON, and it goes unscathed???  That is NASTY, vile, disgusting.

 

Very health socialization. 

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Oh wow Heather, that's WICKED.  Like really, what an unwelcoming approach to SN was going on in that classroom to have that!!  By contrast, look at the Special Books by Special Kids FB feed, and see how this guy (who admittedly is teaching a spec ed class, not mainstreamed), creates POSITIVE, affirming, welcoming vibes for all kids with all disabilities.  But no, in that class they could be like total daggers in the back constantly, equivalent to KNOCKING GLASSES OFF A PERSON, and it goes unscathed???  That is NASTY, vile, disgusting.

 

Very health socialization. 

I have never repeated that story before. The teacher was a PE guy and did not know.  The student...well, I don't know what to say.  He was not very popular.  Cheap shots are called cheap shots for a reason.

Edited by Heathermomster
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My boy tells me when he needs to be with his friends.  DH doesn't need to tell me because my son is very clear. Treasure this moment of contentment because your boys will eventually start wanting to hang out with their friends but can't drive.  At that time,  you can hand over the car keys to your husband and suggest he take them where they need to go because socialization is very important. And then there will be cell phones and a cash transfer.

 

Regular schooling is always an option for later and I am thankful that OhE mentioned that. During the logic stage, DS sat in the classroom and his biggest issue was feeling different and using his accommodations.  Peer pressure is huge at that age, and he did not want to be the only student using a calculator in math.  One or two students gave him grief about it.  DS only felt comfortable using a math facts chart because one was already handing on his math classroom wall....  Get this.  A substitute teacher administered the 6th grade math final.  There was a failure in the system and the substitute would not allow DS to use his math facts sheet or calculator.  The teacher singled my boy out in front of the entire class and was terse, telling him to put the items away.  Afterwards, one of the vocal students that did not like DS being accommodated actually rose his hand and requested the substitute teacher remove the math facts sheet from the wall, which the teacher did.  How is that for socialization?  

That is so sad and hurtful!  Your poor son.

 

DD had a similar situation.  Her classmates all knew that she struggled with reading.  She had known most of them since kinder and I was "friends" with most of the kids, too, so they actually were usually pretty nice about her issues, thankfully.  Her teachers in 5th grade were allowing her to bring in Clifford books and Black Lagoon books to read in her down time and to take AR tests on.  No one said anything to make her feel bad and DD was feeling more confident in her reading, even though she still struggled with decoding and fluency for even those types of books.  

 

Unfortunately, a substitute teacher in her MATH class saw the books she had pulled out to read once she finished her math assignment (the school required students to read if they were done with assignments, regardless of the class) and forced her to put them away.   She yelled at her in front of the whole class.  She cut her down for "cheating" the system by using "baby" books and made her get an advanced chapter book to read instead.  DD was devastated and refused to read ANYTHING for several days.  It is still a bad memory for her.

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That is so sad and hurtful! Your poor son.

 

DD had a similar situation. Her classmates all knew that she struggled with reading. She had known most of them since kinder and I was "friends" with most of the kids, too, so they actually were usually pretty nice about her issues, thankfully. Her teachers in 5th grade were allowing her to bring in Clifford books and Black Lagoon books to read in her down time and to take AR tests on. No one said anything to make her feel bad and DD was feeling more confident in her reading, even though she still struggled with decoding and fluency for even those types of books.

 

Unfortunately, a substitute teacher in her MATH class saw the books she had pulled out to read once she finished her math assignment (the school required students to read if they were done with assignments, regardless of the class) and forced her to put them away. She yelled at her in front of the whole class. She cut her down for "cheating" the system by using "baby" books and made her get an advanced chapter book to read instead. DD was devastated and refused to read ANYTHING for several days. It is still a bad memory for her.

DS only had problems with a couple of kids. It didn't ruin him or anything. He still says nice things about the boy in math. When I look back, that kid was obsessed with son's word processor and accidentally knocked it off his desk. My issue, besides thinking the boy was a world class turd, was concern for DS refusing to use his accommodations. In my mind, I couldn't reconcile some idiot kid or teacher or other parent influencing my child in a negative way towards his accommodations. DS was beginning to deny himself the legitimate use of a device. These people have no clue what we are dealing with and it is none of their business. Thankfully, DS moved on. Me, not so much. Edited by Heathermomster
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Ok, Heather, humor me and rabbit trail here a sec.  What WOULD appropriate use of his accommodations be right now?  Like you're saying in reality I should put a laptop on our school table so that any time we want we could just go wow, let's write something! and open it up and write it?  TTS is so stellar these days.  Ds was using TTS on the kindle fire to listen to Rikki Tikki Tavi last night.  I couldn't believe it, because I thought he would HATE tts.  Instead, it's good enough that he uses it and doesn't even notice.  Not that's not to his credit, lol.  I'm just saying it actually is pretty good now.

 

I don't know, I'm just trying to CHANGE some things and step up my game.  I'm reading a book by Joyce Show on autism, which is giving me some ideas, but this whole idea of accommodations and doing things he's mentally ready to do is a challenge.  And I think the problem is, he functions so YOUNG that you're like oh, we haven't even started, we have lots of years!  But his BODY is going to hit 12, whether his mind is there at the same time or not.  And I love, love, love the psychology of what happens with early accommodations, when the dc thinks that's as normal as anything, like OF COURSE I write my stuff that way, doesn't everyone...  

 

I don't know, just thinking out loud here.  I hadn't thought to do that, and all of a sudden it seems really sensible.  Like just have it there as an option.  And then basic things.  (because you know how b&w I am, lol)  If I give him a worksheet with a scrambled sentence, and it says complete the picture (like add the ball to the seal) and rewrite the sentence correctly.  He COULD type that.  We could just jump over this writing mess.  How do I know how legit that is, like how do I know ok this is the balance where you switch over to typing/tts and this is the stuff where you keep working on it, kwim?  Because for him to write one sentence like that (The seal has a ball.)  is nasty.  It would take a lot of time.  But to me it was like ok, we wrote SOME.  But some, none, more, less, these are really precise terms in a way.  I keep having this funny feeling that something is going to be really obvious in hindsight that isn't obvious to me now.

 

I'm saying I don't want to keep him from writing if more effort would have gotten there, but I don't want to waste time on things that are never going to work either.  He seems to like lists.  Lists are actually easier than sentences.  He usually asks for a scribe for his sentences/books, but a list of his ideas he'll try to make himself.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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You know your situation first hand and up close. Maybe experiment with your boy typing lists and just see what happens. Each family is different and your son is very young. My greatest regret with DS is that I did not scribe for him and he was not allowed to type his work. A ton of aggravation would have been avoided if I had done those things.

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DS used tts because it is what we have. I have never once ask him whether he actually enjoyed it. I think kids adjust to the options they have before them. Many texts are only available via tts so it is good that he is flexible enough to enjoy a tts book. The funny thing about both tts and audible reads is that they both sound like chipmunks at an accelerated reading speed. ;)

Edited by Heathermomster
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It goes both ways- meaning it isn't just SN kids who get this stuff. My oldest 4 go to Christian school part time. 7th grader is G&T (placement test scores for the school were through the roof)and taking her first brick and mortar class, World History, taught by the principal. Going into the final she had 100%. She was the last to turn in her final and kids were remarking that it must of been because she was so stupid. Principal overheard and said, no, she is the smartest kid in the class. Great. Not sure that is going to help her socially, but she felt vindicated. She ended with a 103%. Must have gotten the EC. Yes, socialization isn't for sissies.

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My boy tells me when he needs to be with his friends.  DH doesn't need to tell me because my son is very clear. Treasure this moment of contentment because your boys will eventually start wanting to hang out with their friends but can't drive.  At that time,  you can hand over the car keys to your husband and suggest he take them where they need to go because socialization is very important. And then there will be cell phones and a cash transfer.

 

Regular schooling is always an option for later and I am thankful that OhE mentioned that. During the logic stage, DS sat in the classroom and his biggest issue was feeling different and using his accommodations.  Peer pressure is huge at that age, and he did not want to be the only student using a calculator in math.  One or two students gave him grief about it.  DS only felt comfortable using a math facts chart because one was already handing on his math classroom wall....  Get this.  A substitute teacher administered the 6th grade math final.  There was a failure in the system and the substitute would not allow DS to use his math facts sheet or calculator.  The teacher singled my boy out in front of the entire class and was terse, telling him to put the items away.  Afterwards, one of the vocal students that did not like DS being accommodated actually rose his hand and requested the substitute teacher remove the math facts sheet from the wall, which the teacher did.  How is that for socialization?  

 

This is exactly where we are at right now. Any suggestions for dealing with the emotional side of those issues? So far, we have not had the nastiness from other students but ds definitely feels different. We are trying to help him work through those feelings (it helps that we have a psychologist in the immediate family) but any books, articles, suggestions on get tweens/teens to be comfortable with who they are and using their accommodations? We've explained that more and more students will be using computers by choice the closer he gets to high school. That knowledge seemed to help some and make him feel ahead of the situation.

 

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I am trying to get DS to answer questions about classroom accommodations himself, but he thinks I am a nut for even discussing this in the first place. He told me earlier in the car that as a 5-6th grader, the only reason he used the word processor was because I insisted upon it and that the only choice I gave him at the time was whether he wanted a black or white device. He loves his laptop now but would have never used it initially without my insistence.  We were also paying a lot of money to place him in a school where he wanted to be.  He could not survive in that heavy, traditional educational environment with typing.  

 

ETA:  I meant to say he couldn't survive without typing...

Edited by Heathermomster
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I am trying to get DS to answer questions about classroom accommodations himself, but he thinks I am a nut for even discussing this in the first place. He told me earlier in the car that as a 5-6th grader, the only reason he used the word processor was because I insisted upon it and that the only choice I gave him at the time was whether he wanted a black or white device. He loves his laptop now but would have never used it initially without my insistence.  We were also paying a lot of money to place him in a school where he wanted to be.  He could not survive in that heavy, traditional educational environment with typing.  

 

This is essentially our situation as well, except that ds asked for the laptop. He tried without it for a week or so and then requested that he bring it to get more written down in class (vs. having to do more work at home that he didn't finish). He just wishes other kids also used one or that he wasn't the only one who needs it (even as he recognizes that he really does need it and it makes he day go much more smoothly).

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This is essentially our situation as well, except that ds asked for the laptop. He tried without it for a week or so and then requested that he bring it to get more written down in class (vs. having to do more work at home that he didn't finish). He just wishes other kids also used one or that he wasn't the only one who needs it (even as he recognizes that he really does need it and it makes he day go much more smoothly).

Where DS attended 6th grade, technically any 6-8th grade could use a laptop in class with special permission. I used to remind DS of that fact. Other students had the option to carry a laptop but chose not to. Some private schools in the area make laptops mandatory. Other students benefited from DS typing because he would email them his notes. The Bible teacher forbid DS from giving his notes away because she could see other students becoming over reliant upon my son.

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