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Derek Owens Pre-Algebra Pros/Cons


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I am strongly considering DO Pre-A for our middle dd who struggles more with math than our other kids.  She will be finishing up MM 6 this year and is 'slowly' but surely making her way through it, though not without struggle.  She is *really* ready to move on from MM.

 

I'm still undecided what to use for Pre-A at this point.  While ds14 (our math whiz) thrived using TabletClass for Pre-A, I know it would be too hard for her as it contains more actual Algebraic content than more standard Pre-A courses like DO.  Because she works a bit slower than most, I would also prefer an asynchronous course at this stage over something live like WHA where ds14 is currently attending.   

 

So far, DO sounds like a good potential option.  This would be her first online class as well.  Any experiences with DO Pre-A are appreciated.  Please try to mention any CONS as well as pros if you can think of any.  I need to carefully consider all things as I tailor the best option for her unique strengths and weaknesses.

 

ETA: Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you share how your DC does with math in the general sense?

 

Thanks,

Edited by dereksurfs
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Both my kids did the pre algebra DO course. We bought it from Lucid Education and did it at our own pace. It included grading keys. Might try to see if you can get it...I know they are phasing out that option. There was only one or two times I had to help explain something more. We had done Horizons up to that point and were looking for something else to try as moved into upper math.

 

I can't afford both kids doing DO classes back to back or we would have kept with it. It was a great stepping stone for my kids out of the only program they knew.

 

Lulu has the workbooks. The videos are free on Lucid. And they had a teacher disc you bought with answers on it.http://www.lulu.com/shop/derek-owens/prealgebra-semester-1-student-workbook/paperback/product-21913980.htmland http://www.lulu.com/shop/derek-owens/prealgebra-semester-2-student-workbook/paperback/product-16320903.html

Edited by tess in the burbs
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Thanks, Tess.  Would you mind sharing how well you feel they do with math in the general sense?  Do they seem like average math students, more advanced, quick to grasp new concepts, struggle more than some,etc..?  The reason I ask is, our kids all perform so differently.  What works well with one, may not work as well for the other.  

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My daughter is doing DO prealgebra (with me grading and answering questions).  She's bright, but has struggled with math mostly from dyslexic problems. I've had a hard time teaching certain concepts and doing the DO Prealgebra has been what we needed to fill in some of those holes. She'll move on to AoPS with me next.

 

I think multiple chapters of his prealgebra videos are up for free on you-tube if you want to see samples. My oldest (math whiz) has been impressed with the quality of teaching.

 

My daughter has had some trouble with the computer screen interface bothering her migraine headaches and it has affected her speed through the course.

 

I would rate the math as very solid teaching and problems. I'll move her to the AoPS Intro books next, but if she struggles DO would be my next choice. My oldest went through AoPS completely and my second will probably move on to DO precalculus after he finishes the AoPS Intro books. He's doing the DO physics course now.

 

I think the course is best suited for an independent child who is self-motivated to learn (aren't all courses). Some students would struggle more with the format of DO.

Edited by Julie of KY
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My son hates math.  Always has.  He can do it, but drags himself through the process.  He did fine with the instruction.  A few times I needed to explain more, but overall the explanations were there.  My daughter has no issues with math.  She considers herself good at it.  Again, she did well with the instruction and only had a rare question about something.  My kids are ahead grade wise with math, but neither is crazy about it, and I would call them average students.  My son doesn't try hard and my daughter does.  Both ended up about 92 for the Pre-Alg course.   I know someone whose kid also complains about math doing it, and the mom agrees with me it is a great program.  We both were coming from other programs, just wanting to see how they would do with video lessons.  I believe she is choosing to do the online class options for the other math levels.  I didn't stick with it due to cost.  

 

I would not say it's geared to gifted kids.  I think an average student can do well without too much effort.  I think an average kid who hates math can do well with some effort.  Only in a few places did I feel the need to go see how Khan Academy taught it.  Or try to explain myself.  Maybe 2 places for each of my kids?  I can't remember exact lessons, but it's possible it was the same topic for both kids lol.  

 

I wouldn't hesitate to suggest it for friends who are looking for a video math option.  Our experience was good.  i am sad the 'product' option is phasing out.  I wish they could have done that with more of their products. 

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My older dd who is my most reluctant math student needs things explained to her in an interactive way - or sometimes I think she gets things when other students ask a question she didn't realize she had.  She never used DO, but she tried Thinkwell once, and she did not learn well from a video.  But that's perhaps as much of a learning style issue as much as it's a math aptitude issue.  She's my one who really blossmomed with Anne Stublen at Wilson Hill.  Her mathier younger sister seems to feel like the explanations in a live class take too long (but she had a different teacher, not sure if the teacher had been more lively and engaging if it would have been different).    But anyway, my dd who struggled the most in Algebra and was not in honors math classes when she was briefly in school is doing great with Wilson HIll.  And now (you may have noticed in the other DO thread) I'm thinking of signing up the younger one with DO, because she'd like to accelerate, and that's easy to do with DO.  What is your dd's learning style like?

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My older dd who is my most reluctant math student needs things explained to her in an interactive way - or sometimes I think she gets things when other students ask a question she didn't realize she had.  She never used DO, but she tried Thinkwell once, and she did not learn well from a video.  But that's perhaps as much of a learning style issue as much as it's a math aptitude issue.  She's my one who really blossmomed with Anne Stublen at Wilson Hill.  Her mathier younger sister seems to feel like the explanations in a live class take too long (but she had a different teacher, not sure if the teacher had been more lively and engaging if it would have been different).    But anyway, my dd who struggled the most in Algebra and was not in honors math classes when she was briefly in school is doing great with Wilson HIll.  And now (you may have noticed in the other DO thread) I'm thinking of signing up the younger one with DO, because she'd like to accelerate, and that's easy to do with DO.  What is your dd's learning style like?

 

Thanks for the input, Matryoshka.  To be honest, I'm still trying to figure out her learning style.  Since she has had no exposure to outsourced courses, i really don't know how she will respond to video or live courses.  Yet, I would like to give one of these options a try with her.  Eventually, I would like to try a live class like those from WHA.  However, because her pace is slower than our other kids, I want to provide her with the opportunity to work through Pre-A and possibly Algebra at her own pace.  I may even spend an extra year on Algebra with her to help solidify foundational concepts before moving into higher level courses.

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My son hates math.  Always has.  He can do it, but drags himself through the process.  He did fine with the instruction.  A few times I needed to explain more, but overall the explanations were there.  My daughter has no issues with math.  She considers herself good at it.  Again, she did well with the instruction and only had a rare question about something.  My kids are ahead grade wise with math, but neither is crazy about it, and I would call them average students.  My son doesn't try hard and my daughter does.  Both ended up about 92 for the Pre-Alg course.   I know someone whose kid also complains about math doing it, and the mom agrees with me it is a great program.  We both were coming from other programs, just wanting to see how they would do with video lessons.  I believe she is choosing to do the online class options for the other math levels.  I didn't stick with it due to cost.  

 

I would not say it's geared to gifted kids.  I think an average student can do well without too much effort.  I think an average kid who hates math can do well with some effort.  Only in a few places did I feel the need to go see how Khan Academy taught it.  Or try to explain myself.  Maybe 2 places for each of my kids?  I can't remember exact lessons, but it's possible it was the same topic for both kids lol.  

 

I wouldn't hesitate to suggest it for friends who are looking for a video math option.  Our experience was good.  i am sad the 'product' option is phasing out.  I wish they could have done that with more of their products. 

 

Thank you, Tess.  This is very reassuring. :)   

 

As I'm sure you're aware, there are many levels of students represented on this forum.  So, what might be fine or even easy for one child could be very challenging for another.  Our dd has been growing in her ability to deal with challenge after moving to MM.  When, younger, she used to fly into a fit of tears and say she was stupid when she couldn't figure a math problem out.  Now, she is learning to deal with her frustration better.  I wan to continue to build within her the ability to wrestle with difficult problems without getting down on herself.  This is harder for her than our other kiddlets.  But, I'm glad she is at least growing  in this way.  At the same time, I don't want to blow her confidence away with something over the top difficult 'for her.'  I know for a fact, AoPS and TabletClass would be too much, for example.  

Edited by dereksurfs
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Thanks for the input, Matryoshka.  To be honest, I'm still trying to figure out her learning style.  Since she has had no exposure to outsourced courses, i really don't know how she will respond to video or live courses.  Yet, I would like to give one of these options a try with her.  Eventually, I would like to try a live class like those from WHA.  However, because her pace is slower than our other kids, I want to provide her with the opportunity to work through Pre-A and possibly Algebra at her own pace.  I may even spend an extra year on Algebra with her to help solidify foundational concepts before moving into higher level courses.

 

For Prealgebra, dd was still at home.  We used Lial's Prealgebra, and that went well.  But then Lial's Algebra I didn't - who knows, it might have been fine if I'd gotten her a teacher, but she didn't want me teaching anymore and was insisting on doing it herself, and that's when I learned she didn't learn from a text by itself. (Her twin sister the same year worked her way through Foerster's pretty much independently with excellent results).  She went to ps the next year and did "Algebra Part B" and seemed to really enjoy having a teacher and a class.  She wanted to 'get back on track' by testing out of Geometry, so I got her Thinkwell, and that's when we found out that videos were also a flop.  Ah, trial and error.

 

I think it's Eight that takes her kids through a year of MUS Algebra (which is lite and hands-on) as a kind of Pre-Algebra before giving them a more standard Algebra the following year.  In retrospect, I'm wondering if that would have been a good idea with that dd...  Ah, hindsight...

 

Edited by Matryoshka
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Have you watched the videos yet? (The ones for Pre-algebra are all on YouTube.)

 

Yes, it's funny that you ask that as I have been wrestling with my own advice I typically give.  That is, to provide the child a chance to see some samples and take part in the decision making process.  It's just harder with her since she doesn't like math and therefore seems to want to take the path of least resistance as in get 'er done!

 

Well, I was talking with my son today about some of his academic options we're considering for next year's math and science.  Since we did Physics first with him this year, he can now take Chemistry or Biology.  If he takes Chemistry at our local CC, he'll get a lot of opportunities for growth and challenge.  As we discussed his options, dd11 overheard, and asked about her classes for next year.  It was the perfect segue into discussing the possibility of her first online class.  She actually perked up and seemed interested in the concept.  It was like she saw a little glimmer of light in her somewhat dark tunnel of math life.  :)  As I proceeded to describe it, she said it may actually be something a little more interesting for her, at least compared to MM. lol  So, I opened up a Derek Owens video lesson and let her watch his teaching style to see how she might react.  I ended up being somewhat surprised by her reaction as she seemed intrigued by it and didn't mind his lectures either.  This was all good news for me as it may in fact be the thing I have been looking for to bring her out of her math doldrums.  Only time will tell, of course.  But I am at least encouraged by her initial response.   ;)  :)

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