TPS or WHA English?

[JadeOrchidSong]

I'd like my boys to take online English.

Can you share your experience with TPS or WHA English classes? Thanks!

[h2bh]

We don't have experience with TPS English courses, though they get good reviews here.  I also looked into both before settling on WHA where my daughter takes their middle school composition class, FOEW (Fundamentals of Expository Writing).  Here is a link to the teacher's blog post on the writing method that she teaches in the class.  http://www.wilsonhillacademy.com/2015/01/16/use-schaffer-writing-method/ My daughter has one class at TPS and we both have a strong preference for the technology that WHA uses.  TPS course is once a week for 1.5 hours and WHA classes meet twice a week for 1.5 hours each time.  Part of the reason that I settled on WHA was because of the reading list.  (You can look at TPS website for the specific class you are interested in to compare.) FOEW students read a few short stories at the beginning of the year, The Odyssey, some poems, portions of The Canterbury Tales, To Kill a Mockingbird and Shakespeare's Julius Caesar.  Those readings are used to write structured essays through the lens of rhetorical device and literary themes.  Let me know if you have any specific questions.

 

Mrs. Lange is an outstanding teacher and clearly cares about seeing her students do well.  She is very responsive to questions as well.  (I asked a lot about this time last year.)

[bethben]

My ds did Potter's school Narnia class in 7th grade and English 2 in 8th.  I was very impressed with both classes.  There was a whole quarter in the English 2 class that the writing portion focused on poetry.  Each student had to have a poetry portfolio with a number of different types of poems.  They also had to have a oral report on a specific poet with a power point presentation.   My son even decided that he liked poetry a bit after that.  It didn't come from me - I am poetry adverse and skipped poetry in every curriculum I taught.  

[birchbark]

My oldest DS has used both. He took TPS Narnia course last year for 8th grade, and this year he is using WHA Honors Composition. 

 

He enjoyed the Narnia class very much, and his writing as well as his study skills really improved. The class met only once a week for 1-1/2 hrs, so it was a nice introduction to online classes.

 

We chose not to continue with TPS for reasons discussed in this thread, and decided to give the relatively-new WHA a try. WHA's class is 1-1/2 hrs twice a week. DS likes the interface a lot better, in fact, it is his favorite of the online classes we've tried. The instruction is more rigorous, but that is what you'd expect from a high school class vs. a middle-school class. There seems to be plenty of feedback from the teacher. I feel like I need to sit through more class to give a better description of the instruction, which I need to do, since there are plenty of questions about WHA due to its newness. 

 

The Narnia class was good enough though, that I'd do it again with the youngers. 

[crazyforlatin]

I'm trying to decide whether to continue with WTMA's WWS2 or try a different vendor at about that same level.

 

We don't have experience with TPS English courses, though they get good reviews here.  I also looked into both before settling on WHA where my daughter takes their middle school composition class, FOEW (Fundamentals of Expository Writing).  Here is a link to the teacher's blog post on the writing method that she teaches in the class.  http://www.wilsonhillacademy.com/2015/01/16/use-schaffer-writing-method/ My daughter has one class at TPS and we both have a strong preference for the technology that WHA uses.  TPS course is once a week for 1.5 hours and WHA classes meet twice a week for 1.5 hours each time.  Part of the reason that I settled on WHA was because of the reading list.  (You can look at TPS website for the specific class you are interested in to compare.) FOEW students read a few short stories at the beginning of the year, The Odyssey, some poems, portions of The Canterbury Tales, To Kill a Mockingbird and Shakespeare's Julius Caesar.  Those readings are used to write structured essays through the lens of rhetorical device and literary themes.  Let me know if you have any specific questions.

 

Mrs. Lange is an outstanding teacher and clearly cares about seeing her students do well.  She is very responsive to questions as well.  (I asked a lot about this time last year.)

 

WHA's description of FOEW is not that clear. Does the class require weekly rewrites? The description seems to indicate multiple paragraphs by the end of the course. And, how many hours can be expected outside of class? I may be wrong, but this could be a WWS1 equivalent, perhaps?

 

Here info on FOEW for anyone else interested in WHA:

 

 

 

This course gives students tools for learning how to appreciate and interpret others’ writings in order that they may gain the skills to successfully create their own well crafted essays. By thoughtfully unpacking specific aspects of style (diction, literary terms) in selected pieces of literature, and through learning to write formally and critically about the works of great authors, students begin the process of writing well themselves. The classical challenge of clarifying and communicating one’s thoughts by distilling them into coherent and persuasive writing is furthered in Fundamentals of Expository Writing. Students also master the basic essay form.

 

 

 

 

My oldest DS has used both. He took TPS Narnia course last year for 8th grade, and this year he is using WHA Honors Composition. 

 

He enjoyed the Narnia class very much, and his writing as well as his study skills really improved. The class met only once a week for 1-1/2 hrs, so it was a nice introduction to online classes.

 

We chose not to continue with TPS for reasons discussed in this thread, and decided to give the relatively-new WHA a try. WHA's class is 1-1/2 hrs twice a week. DS likes the interface a lot better, in fact, it is his favorite of the online classes we've tried. The instruction is more rigorous, but that is what you'd expect from a high school class vs. a middle-school class. There seems to be plenty of feedback from the teacher. I feel like I need to sit through more class to give a better description of the instruction, which I need to do, since there are plenty of questions about WHA due to its newness. 

 

The Narnia class was good enough though, that I'd do it again with the youngers. 

 

I'm also looking into TPS Narnia and English 2. So far, I've read that English 2 has a lot of feedback with rewrites during the same week. But if I had to choose a vendor, I would prefer WHA. 

 

If DD will be writing multi-paragraphs in WWS1 by the end of the semester, will WHA's Honors Composition still be too difficult? Again, WHA's description below does not quite tell me what to expect. Other than a basic understanding of grammar, I don't see any other prerequisite for their Honors Composition, but that doesn't seem like enough of a background for high school writing.

 

 

 

Also known as Fundamentals of Literary Analysis, this course will trace the trajectory of the writing process from pre-writing to final revisions.  As we explore the purposes of writing (with a special emphasis on exposition and persuasion), students will gain greater proficiency in the art of a well-crafted sentence and a coherent paragraph.  We will use student writing samples to practice the revision process and to identify common writing blunders. Outside of class, students will read a variety of critical essays, poetry, and short stories so that they may learn to compose written responses across academic disciplines. While a basic understanding of grammatical conventions is a course pre-requisite, the class will spend time clarifying and reviewing various grammatical conventions/usage for the sake of clearer writing.

 

[h2bh]

I'm trying to decide whether to continue with WTMA's WWS2 or try a different vendor at about that same level.

 

 

WHA's description of FOEW is not that clear. Does the class require weekly rewrites? The description seems to indicate multiple paragraphs by the end of the course. And, how many hours can be expected outside of class? I may be wrong, but this could be a WWS1 equivalent, perhaps?

 

 

I'm also looking into TPS Narnia and English 2. So far, I've read that English 2 has a lot of feedback with rewrites during the same week. But if I had to choose a vendor, I would prefer WHA. 

 

If DD will be writing multi-paragraphs in WWS1 by the end of the semester, will WHA's Honors Composition still be too difficult? Again, WHA's description below does not quite tell me what to expect. Other than a basic understanding of grammar, I don't see any other prerequisite for their Honors Composition, but that doesn't seem like enough of a background for high school writing.

     The FOEW class requires three essays of 2.5-3 pages each per semester, plus timed essays given during the midterm and final exam.  The instruction leading up to the essays is very clear in terms of expectations.  The students turn in pre-writing assignments that are given feedback.  Those assignments have all of their quotes and analysis of those quotes.  The feedback on those pre-writing exercises provide the input needed to have a good experience with writing the paper.  The papers themselves do not ordinarily undergo rewrites, though students who struggle with the paper have been given that opportunity.  There is wonderful feedback on each essays she writes, even though they aren't going through multiple drafts.  My daughter has learned a lot through the careful comments on the essays.  Even the small weekly assignments that are turned in receive careful comments.  The essays my daughter has currently been assigned have the option to turn in drafts early for comment.  The grading is based directly upon the instructions she provides in class.

     In FOEW, Mrs. Lange is looking for students to be able to provide analysis and not just an "and then" style book report.  Many of the students in the class come from IEW and have written essays before, but haven't moved into thinking analytically which is the main thrust of this class.  The literature discussions are also moving the students toward thinking analytically about the text.  My dd worked about 5  hours per week during the start of the year as she adjusted to online classes and now it is more like 3 hours most weeks outside of class, though the week an essay is due she works much longer.  I don't know how this course compares to WWS 1.  I'm sorry I can't comment on that.  Cindy Lange would happily answer questions about placement.  She wants kids to succeed and find the right course for them.  WHA teachers can be reached at the first letter of their first name and then their last name @wilsonhillacademy.com.  I don't know anything about pre-reqs for the Honors Comp 1 which is being reworked for the coming year and called Writing Across the Curriculum (according to the parent meeting this past week).

[JadeOrchidSong]

I always feel two 90 minute classes a week is a lot especially if the student is taking other online classes too. That would be a main drawback of WHA writing for me. Can you convince me otherwise?

[crazyforlatin]

     The FOEW class requires three essays of 2.5-3 pages each per semester, plus timed essays given during the midterm and final exam.  The instruction leading up to the essays is very clear in terms of expectations.  The students turn in pre-writing assignments that are given feedback.  Those assignments have all of their quotes and analysis of those quotes.  The feedback on those pre-writing exercises provide the input needed to have a good experience with writing the paper.  The papers themselves do not ordinarily undergo rewrites, though students who struggle with the paper have been given that opportunity.  There is wonderful feedback on each essays she writes, even though they aren't going through multiple drafts.  My daughter has learned a lot through the careful comments on the essays.  Even the small weekly assignments that are turned in receive careful comments.  The essays my daughter has currently been assigned have the option to turn in drafts early for comment.  The grading is based directly upon the instructions she provides in class.

     In FOEW, Mrs. Lange is looking for students to be able to provide analysis and not just an "and then" style book report.  Many of the students in the class come from IEW and have written essays before, but haven't moved into thinking analytically which is the main thrust of this class.  The literature discussions are also moving the students toward thinking analytically about the text.  My dd worked about 5  hours per week during the start of the year as she adjusted to online classes and now it is more like 3 hours most weeks outside of class, though the week an essay is due she works much longer.  I don't know how this course compares to WWS 1.  I'm sorry I can't comment on that.  Cindy Lange would happily answer questions about placement.  She wants kids to succeed and find the right course for them.  WHA teachers can be reached at the first letter of their first name and then their last name @wilsonhillacademy.com.  I don't know anything about pre-reqs for the Honors Comp 1 which is being reworked for the coming year and called Writing Across the Curriculum (according to the parent meeting this past week).

 

This is super helpful, thanks! From your description, this class sounds like post-WWS1 with some overlapping with the end of WWS1. I'll email Ms. Lange to make sure. 

[fourisenough]

This is super helpful, thanks! From your description, this class sounds like post-WWS1 with some overlapping with the end of WWS1. I'll email Ms. Lange to make sure.

Please report back what you hear from her.

[crazyforlatin]

WHA has a chart that I didn't notice yesterday. FOEW is 8th grade level. http://www.wilsonhillacademy.com/recommended-courses-of-study/school-of-logic/

 

Problem is I want all the classes, TPS Narnia, WWS2, and FOEW/HC.  :laugh:

[JadeOrchidSong]

Can someone share with me how you justify having two 90 minute classes for English alone? I want to be convinced with its merits.

[RootAnn]

My kid benefits from lots of classtime (as long as it is being used effectively) for writing.

 

On a side note, WHA has many of its schedules up for the fall, but hasn't listed their Composition courses yet.

One of the other places I'm considering only has Composition (English) once per week - for 80 minutes. I consider that a con (since it is roughly the same price as WHA) since there is less-often-feedback. However, it might come down to scheduling and/or which class is a 'fit' for this particular kid.

 

ETA:  The Composition class schedules are now up.

Edited January 26, 2016 by RootAnn

[JadeOrchidSong]

My kid benefits from lots of classtime (as long as it is being used effectively) for writing.

 

On a side note, WHA has many of its schedules up for the fall, but hasn't listed their Composition courses yet.

One of the other places I'm considering only has Composition (English) once per week - for 80 minutes. I consider that a con (since it is roughly the same price as WHA) since there is less-often-feedback. However, it might come down to scheduling and/or which class is a 'fit' for this particular kid.

 

ETA: The Composition class schedules are now up.

Where can I see the composition schedule?

[crazyforlatin]

Where can I see the composition schedule?

 

You have to go under registration link. Here are some of the courses.

[crazyforlatin]

Can someone share with me how you justify having two 90 minute classes for English alone? I want to be convinced with its merits.

 

I think certain classes should be twice per week, like modern languages and writing. Definitely not Greek or Latin. WTMA has 2 1-hour classes per week. Kids have questions, so it takes time for the teacher to explain not just good writing but also grammar since it looks like some kids actually need the extra grammar instruction, and writing just seems more nebulous for certain people. Not each student is working at the same level. 

[h2bh]

I'm not exactly sure how to address the question of two classes per week.  I think each family will have to make a decision about how best to use the time in the week.  My dd did say that she thinks Mrs. Lange does a great job of using the time wisely.  She definitely keeps the kids on track.  So while I can understand wanting an option with less of a structured time commitment, I don't at all regret the class or the time we have chosen to dedicate to this.  So many choices in homeschooling!  

[JadeOrchidSong]

Do you need to buy textbooks for the online classes?

[RootAnn]

Do you need to buy textbooks for the online classes?

 

Yes!

[fourisenough]

I'm not exactly sure how to address the question of two classes per week. I think each family will have to make a decision about how best to use the time in the week. My dd did say that she thinks Mrs. Lange does a great job of using the time wisely. She definitely keeps the kids on track. So while I can understand wanting an option with less of a structured time commitment, I don't at all regret the class or the time we have chosen to dedicate to this. So many choices in homeschooling!

What age/grade was your daughter in the FOEW class? I'm drawn to this class, but not sure if I should use it in 7th (for my slightly advanced writer who will have completed WWS1) or wait until 8th grade when she will have completed WWS2.

[h2bh]

What age/grade was your daughter in the FOEW class? I'm drawn to this class, but not sure if I should use it in 7th (for my slightly advanced writer who will have completed WWS1) or wait until 8th grade when she will have completed WWS2.

She is taking the class in 7th grade and that has worked well for her.  She loves language arts.  I will wait until 8th for my next child.  It sounds like for your child either option would work well.

[crazyforlatin]

I heard back from Ms. Lange who is so responsive and even suggested we talk over the phone, but her emails provide enough information for me to decide whether to enroll or not. I'll just summarize what she wrote:

 

Students enter her class having already learned the mechanics from IEW or Shurley or some other method. She will teach the 5-paragraph essay, but this format is not the "be all and end all." Her class is focused on persuasive writing - coming up with a thesis and supporting it with argument. It's rare for her to encounter a student who already knows how to do this. Initially, she guides them slowly with steps, but the pace quickens after the 1st quarter. It will seem repetitive in the beginning, and students who haven't been paying attention will find it challenging after the initial stage. WHA's writing classes have a focus on teaching students to "argue their case." And, FOEW is the first course in that process. FOEW is still a guided class; she provides the thesis or approves of the student's thesis. 

 

This sounds like a class for an older middle school student/young high school student who is ready to deduce, analyze, and express valid opinions. 

 

 

 

 

[JadeOrchidSong]

I have decided on FOEW for my 8th grader son.

TPS Narnia might be a good class for younger ds, who will be near 12 when he takes the class.

Edited January 30, 2016 by JadeOrchidSong

[crazyforlatin]

It's always a good feeling to make a decision; FOEW sounds like the right class for your DS especially since he already knows the 5-paragraph essay.

[fourisenough]

Could TPS Narnia be done by a secular family or is the religious content too much?

 

I also wonder if TPS Narnia could be done with WWS2 with WTM Academy? I don't want to overload my daughter with writing, but since WWS doesn't cover literature (in the sense of reading assigned books and doing literary analysis on them), I don't feel it is a complete English class. We already have grammar covered.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Your dd is the same age as my younger son. He is doing very well with IEW Level B. He hasn't done WWS 1 though his older brother used WWS 1 very successfully. I would think Narnia is enough for both writing and literature for ds. Since WWS 2 is twice a week, I wonder how you can add Narnia. If dd is very advanced and motivated, she probably can handle both.

[Shellydon]

My 8th grader is taking a Potter's School English 1 class.  We like the teacher very much.  I love the writing instruction and the literature analysis.  However, the grammar portion is really way to much.  I will not do another English class at TPS  because of it. 

[yvonne]

My 8th grader is taking a Potter's School English 1 class.  We like the teacher very much.  I love the writing instruction and the literature analysis.  However, the grammar portion is really way to much.  I will not do another English class at TPS  because of it. 

 

There is an option for English 1 without much grammar-- the Journey Through Narnia class!

 

One of the advantages of TPS English is that they offer two different English 1 and two different English 3 classes, one with more grammar and one with less. Placement is by exam.  So, if the student already has a certain level of grammar knowledge/skills, s/he can take the English 1: Journey Through Narnia class instead of English 1 and English 3: Lit Survey instead of the grammar-heavy English 3: Foundations.

 

There is only one English 2 option. I'm not sure how much grammar that includes.

 

I really appreciate the ability to test out of grammar. I completely understand the need for a certain level of grammar knowledge, but we cover grammar extensively with Rod & Staff in the elementary grades 3-7. By 8th and definitely 9th grade, I really don't want to spend time on it in a literature & writing course. From talking to online English instructors, though, I've gathered that they get more than a handful of students with little to no grammar background. So, most online English courses for home schoolers that I've found include at least some grammar. 

 

TPS is the only online source I've found that has two tracks. I think TPS also offers a summer grammar course that would give the student the grammar foundation needed to test into a less grammar-intensive English course. Also, some instructors at other providers will let the student test out of the grammar requirement/strand of the course and that has also been helpful, though not ideal.  

Edited February 4, 2016 by yvonne

[JadeOrchidSong]

I will have my younger son take the Narnia class.

[JadeOrchidSong]

We had a very successful family conference for 30 minutes with ds13 about his 8th grade plan. I am excited for what he will take next year!

Thank you very much for helping us make good decisions!

[JadeOrchidSong]

Two questions: If ds13 takes FOEW, which includes lots of books/literature, will he still have time for American literature (just reading books, nothing else) since he will be doing America the Beautiful for history?

What are the absolute must-buy materials/books for FOEW and can I get some used copies to save money?

[RootAnn]

Two questions: If ds13 takes FOEW, which includes lots of books/literature, will he still have time for American literature (just reading books, nothing else) since he will be doing America the Beautiful for history?

What are the absolute must-buy materials/books for FOEW and can I get some used copies to save money?

 

:lurk5:  WHA opened general registration this morning (Midnight EST). I could completely believe there were already wait-listed classes. (FOEW still had room in all its time/date slots as of this morning.) I registered dd#2 for it already, so I'm all ears.  :bigear:

[JadeOrchidSong]

I should have registered my parent account earlier. I just did and am anxiously waiting for their approval and info for me to sign ds up. UG......... I should have created parent account earlier!

[RootAnn]

I did mine yesterday afternoon & they had the info to me last night. I'm assuming they will get the info to you quickly. :-)

[JadeOrchidSong]

Ds enrolled in the TuThur morning class! Yay! Who else are in this class?

[JadeOrchidSong]

RootAnn, or anyone who knows this: Do you know if FOEW Analytical Grammar is dropped for real? That is what I read somewhere and would like to make absolutely sure. I know I can email the teacher, but you may already know, so...

[RootAnn]

Dropped for real! Dd got a required book list and further emails with teacher confirm no Analytical Grammar.

[crazyforlatin]

Why are we enthusiastic about dropping AG? Curious minds....

 

We'll do FOEW next year.

[RootAnn]

One less thing to buy.

 

It was only used for the first few weeks. The teacher is developing her own resources, so they will likely be cheaper (just what it cost to print, hopefully). Also, I assume it'll be even more customized to the needs of the kids in each class.

 

I personally don't want a big focus on grammar in this class. Not using AG seems to reinforce that the teacher feels the same way.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Why are we enthusiastic about dropping AG? Curious minds....

 

We'll do FOEW next year.

。

So glad to see your dd in FOEW.

I will order the books soon. I am about to register both boys for Lukeion Latin 1. Is dd taking 3 in the fall?

[JadeOrchidSong]

And ds11 is enrolled in TPS Narnia. Do I really need to buy the boxed 7 books? I guess so.

[crazyforlatin]

。

So glad to see your dd in FOEW.

I will order the books soon. I am about to register both boys for Lukeion Latin 1. Is dd taking 3 in the fall?

Yes Dd is continuing with Latin 3, sort of scary the way the class has been described.