SWB for high school

[almondbutterandjelly]

Anybody else REALLY excited about using SWB's high school books and then feeling super overwhelmed by them?  

 

We are doing History of the Ancient World this year, supplemented by readings from Usborne Internet-Linked Encyclopedia of World History to give my visual dd some visuals.  I had been giving tests every 2 or 3 chapters (multiple choice, true/false, and matching because that's how my dd needs them to be).  Plus maps here and there.  It's so much!  85 chapters!  I just looked over our schedule, and there's no way we'll finish it this year unless I skip a lot of stuff.  But I'm no historian.  It's hard for me to tell what's important and what's not.  So I'm ending up dumping all the India and China stuff.  That helps a little, although I know that's not ideal.  But 85 chapters!  I'm also making some chapters "read-only" but still, it's A LOT.

 

We like to enjoy our history and maybe watch some Horrible Histories videos once in awhile.  There's no time for that.

 

Ugh.  So I'm feeling like it's not very user friendly.  So I'm sadly probably going to drop SWB's history after this year.  Sadness.

 

So if you're reading this, dear SWB, maybe you can consider publishing a guide to what chapters would be droppable, allowing us to read only 36 of the chapters?

 

And while I'm dreaming... maybe a book of tests that are multiple choice, true/false, and matching?  I also have to say that the maps are not particularly user-friendly, so I got some other ones off the internet.

 

Oh, to dream.

 

Also, similar requests for History of the Medieval World and History of the Renaissance World.  I would happily buy both books and teacher guides, if you could tell me which 36 chapters (total) I should read for our history next year.  I like keeping to the 4 year history cycle.

 

I puffy heart love SWB's way of telling history.  It has made this history-hater into a history-liker, and my dd loves history.  But it's too much.  

 

 

Edited November 28, 2015 by perkybunch

[Hilltopmom]

The Ancient book audio version was on sale today at audible for $5, if listening instead of reading may help.

 

We read the book last year but gave up on the guide about 15 chapters in, it was too much for us too.

[katilac]

Anybody else REALLY excited about using SWB's high school books and then feeling super overwhelmed by them?  

 

 <snip>  But 85 chapters!  I'm also making some chapters "read-only" but still, it's A LOT.

 

We like to enjoy our history and maybe watch some Horrible Histories videos once in awhile.  There's no time for that.

 

Ugh.  So I'm feeling like it's not very user friendly.  So I'm sadly probably going to drop SWB's history after this year.  Sadness.

 

 <snip> 

 

We didn't find it manageable, either, and it would be a lot of work on my part to break it down into a one-year schedule. Plus, I knew all 4 years would not be available. 

 

We switched to Humanistic Traditions. It lacks the great story-telling aspect of SWB, but we do like it and it's much easier to manage and schedule. It includes literature excerpts and art reproductions, which I really like. You can buy an accompanying CD that has music examples, but we own them and find it easier to just google the title and listen on the computer. 

 

I do spend a bit of time scheduling, because it's a survey text and I want to spend more time on certain topics. I find it easy to do, though. Last year, I glanced at the chapter summaries  and allocated so many days to each one. Then I looked at what the literature excerpts were, and decided which ones we would skip because we were reading the entire work (or a similar one) in English. Doing that didn't take long at all, a couple of hours. 

 

Then I just added possible resources for the chapters we were spending more time on - a biography, documentary, whatever - plus potential assignments. For assignments, I own some primary document workbooks, and I also just google "Topic X writing assignment." 

 

This year, oldest is a senior and fall semester has been crazy, so we are just reading straight through the book and all of the extras will come in the spring semester. One good thing about this approach is that I can do themed groupings for the additional study, like worker's movements through history rather than looking at each one in isolation. I think it will be a good combination of chronological study and themed study.

 

If you fall behind, the art, literature, and music all have their own section in each chapter, and it's easy to condense or skip some of it. Art is usually the first to be trimmed here, because they sometimes go into great detail, so we skip that as needed but still look at the reproductions (and the gist of it is included in the summary).  

 

There are six volumes from ancient to modern, and you can usually find them used for about $10 each. 

 

The Ancient book audio version was on sale today at audible for $5, if listening instead of reading may help.

 

We read the book last year but gave up on the guide about 15 chapters in, it was too much for us too.

 

Thanks for this; it was still on sale today! 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Just taking note here.  I plan to use it (in fact I just ordered it).  I probably will just not have my kid do everything. Maybe some chapters he'll just read and that is it. 

 

He enjoys history so I imagine he'll enjoy reading the book.  I see nothing wrong with just reading some chapters and not necessarily producing any kind of output.

 

 

[texasmama]

It is a very well-written and interesting book.  I did not/will not add tests.  I consider the Study Guide sufficient.  The Study Guide's way of doing maps is different and difficult for my boys to learn.  We may use the mapping part differently than presented in the Study Guide or not at all.  I added in some Great Courses lectures to the schedule.  The first one was terribly boring so I removed it.  

 

All of this is theoretical because we ended up bumping history to the summer when our schedule became overwhelming.  We will do it in condensed fashion since it will be the only course.  We may very well read and discuss some chapters without completing all of the Study Guide exercises.  I will say that I think there is value in the Study Guide.  During the summer, I sat down with my sons and taught them how to read for Study Guide information and annotate as they go, which is a skill they will need in the future.

 

I tweak almost all curricula we use so all of the above is not surprising.

Edited November 29, 2015 by texasmama

[Lori D.]

SWB's adult history texts weren't out yet when we were doing high school history, but with our average readers/average students with only average interest in History ;), we would have only managed about half of her 900-page text. In 10-12th grades we were only able to manage about 450 pages in a History textbook plus about 150 pages as excerpts from various supplemental resources. We needed a gentler start in 9th grade, managing about a total of 400 pages of spine textbook + supplements.

 

Just as a very general rule of thumb, 1 credit = 1 hour per day, 4-5 days/week, which comes out to 4-5 hours per week, or 144-180 hours total for 1 credit. If a student is putting in more time than what will work out to be 180 hours for 1 credit, then in fairness to the student, it's time to either award more credit, or back down on the amount of work/time. :)

 

Quizzes can be oral -- or skip the quizzes and just informally discuss what was read once a week over tea and cookies. :) Output can be in the form of the occasional short answer paper (1-3 paragraphs), and 1 longer paper per semester, which can double-dip as part of the writing portion of the English credit.

 

All that to say, do what *your* student can manage AND learn from/retain. ;) BEST of luck in deciding what, if any, adjustments might smooth your History studies! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Lori D.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Whew, just got these delivered today.  Hefty....

 

 

[texasmama]

I will say that the chapters are very short.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I will say that the chapters are very short.

 

It's not outrageously long for high school I don't think.  I see some of these crazy high school history books that are something like 1300 pages.  Although there are also a lot of pictures.  I hate all those pictures. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

This book looks so good I think I'm going to read it.

 

 

[texasmama]

This book looks so good I think I'm going to read it.

I enjoyed what I've read so far.  There is a bit of humor thrown in here and there, which I like.  :D

[SparklyUnicorn]

I enjoyed what I've read so far.  There is a bit of humor thrown in here and there, which I like.   :D

 

I would have loved history if this was my book in high school. 

 

I bought a traditional high school history book used off of someone.  It is so terrible.  I refuse to use it.  I figured it would be nice having the assignments all right there ready to go, but no, it is a dreadful book. 

[texasmama]

I would have loved history if this was my book in high school. 

 

I bought a traditional high school history book used off of someone.  It is so terrible.  I refuse to use it.  I figured it would be nice having the assignments all right there ready to go, but no, it is a dreadful book. 

IMO, it would be a better history education to simply read and discuss SWB's book than to use a typical text and give assignments and tests.  I will be using likely quite a lot of the Study Guide assignments because my kids have been light on output in history, and I'm cranking up the expectation for high school.  But still....

[AEC]

my 8th grader is using HOTAW this year.  We plan to do the whole book @ a rate of 2 chapters / week (we school through the summer, but that gives him like 10 weeks off for vacations, etc...which IMO is plenty).

 

So, we do two chapters a week.  I pick just one of them and have him do some supplemental reading as well.  He does the questions & work from the Study Guide for both chapters, but we skip the longer essay questions for one of the chapters.  I'm not doing tests - I think the writing from the StudyGuide is sufficient.  All told, I'd guess it's 6 hours a week.

Edited November 29, 2015 by AEC

[happypamama]

Love this discussion!

 

Granted, I love the middle ages, but I was surprised at how short and how readable the chapters of HoMW and HoRW are.  I was planning on my student reading about 6 chapters a week, or about 50 pages, IIRC, to cover most of both books.  I didn't think 50 pages of very readable reading was that all much.  Am I overestimating?  I am not planning on having her "work" with all the chapters in depth, just notes/outlines on a couple of chapter, a few of the discussion questions in written format, and some people/terms to summarize briefly (NOT every single one listed in the guide).  I'm trying to strike a balance between depth and breadth.  But for one book, 2-3 chapters a week would be very easily doable, and if need be, I'll drop back to that.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Thanks for this discussion.  I keep looking at options, and nothing is as wonderful as SWB's stuff.  Are you all planning on doing HOMW and HORW during one school year to match the 4 year history cycle or just one book per year?  It is chronological, so I guess that's not a huge deal.  I could still correspond literature appropriately.

 

If you don't do tests for history, how do you do grades?  This is my first year of having real grades, and they are solely based on tests.  My dd is not much of a writer and I don't feel like I can grade those objectively anyway.  Tests are my objective grade-giver.

[dhudson]

We are using History of the Ancient World as a spine and my 9th graders do two or three chapters a week. In the study guide they do all the Vocab, we do the questions out loud but they do all the mapping and atleast one to two paragraphs in the Critical Thinking. It has been fairly doable but they are very strong readers and we basically replaced the Notgrass spine in MFW's AHL.

Edited December 1, 2015 by dhudson

[Tranquility7]

The Ancient book audio version was on sale today at audible for $5, if listening instead of reading may help.

 

We read the book last year but gave up on the guide about 15 chapters in, it was too much for us too.

 

Just wanted to make sure you know this sale is still on until Dec 2 -

SWB -The History of the Ancient World (now $4.95, usually $39.95)

 

SWB -The History of the Renaissance World (now $4.95, usually $39.95)

 

Wahoo!

[Legomom]

We are using selections from SWB's ancient literature list for 9th grade in WTM. So far my kids have finished the Iliad. We also supplemented with Elizabeth Vandiver's lectures on the Iliad (Great Courses) which were outstanding.

 

We are debating about which book to study next. We have followed the WTM book lists all through

school, so they have read many of the folk tales, myths and historical fiction recommended in prior grades. I'm not sure about jumping into the Odyssey next since there are some other shorter works that we would like to use also.

[HS Mom in NC]

My older girls graduated early so we only got to use the Ancient History book for history.  I divided the number of chapters by 36 and it worked out just fine.  I only had them write short summaries and we used this for Ancient Literature: http://www.greenleafpress.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=29&zenid=0f00e1b472b865fb132f1a1f2ac93e88
 

Edited January 13, 2016 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[Reefgazer]

Well, I'm re-thinking history, as well.  My plan for the past year has been to do SWB History of the Ancient World because it is very engaging and I can't seem to put it down; it's the kind of history that sticks with you and has lessons you really remember.  But I am re-thinking this recently because I looked at the Pandia Press H.O. level three and that also looks good and DD is interested in that, as well.  The bonus to Pandia Press is that some literature and essay writing is built into the curriculum and I could give DD a credit for history and 0.5 credits for literature (I'd add more lit and writing for a full English credit).  This is a plus for this STEM-oriented, non-English teacher!  But...I can't bear to part with SWB history tome.  So I was thinking I might switch over to H.O. and follow their program (keeping in mind that if I do that and follow the program as directed, I can also count that for 0.5 lit credit), but....have DD just *read* History of the Ancient World (none of their written work).  I was about to post to see what everyone thought of that.  I don't know if that will be too much; it just winds up to be about 20 additional pages of leisurely reading per week, which seems do-able to me.

Edited January 17, 2016 by reefgazer

[Reefgazer]

We're using Level 2 now for 8th grade and we both really like it.  It is focused and complete.  I bought Level 3 Ancients last night (along with Medieval, because $10.99 each) and figured that even though the major spine is discontinued, I can still make it work easily with the updated spine. 

Reefgazer- thank you for mentioning HO. I checked it out after your post and it looks like everything I've been looking for. Although it's discontinued, I couldn't pass it up for $10.95. Even if I only use part of it with HOTAW, I figure it's a steal! I'm going to figure out a way to make it all work!

 

Edited January 18, 2016 by reefgazer

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

My 10th grader is doing History of the Medieval World this year with the study guide.  He is getting through about 2 chapters a week.  Originally I planned on 5 chapters every 2 weeks, but the reality is that 2 a week seems to be his max.   The chapters ARE short, but they are also packed with information and it is hard for him to keep some of the names straight (I'm looking at you, China).  He is a strong reader with a humanities bent and he is enjoying the book.

 

This thread is good for me---I think maybe I've been too hard on him (too much :banghead:  over not sticking to the original schedule).  Thank you for starting it.

 

He likes the mapping exercises, so dropping them would take away from his enjoyment.  He does complain that some chapters have like 20 important people/things to write about and then others only have a handful, so progressing through is not exactly steady (some chapters take him a lot more time than others).  Soooo...I'm trying to figure out how to make this more doable for him.  He is not having to spend a crazy amount of time on it, but I agree that 2 chapters a week is his max if he continues as is, which is pretty much a year round history course.  Since he takes the summers off due to other interests and obligations, I won't push him to do history all summer.  I need to look over the study guide again and see what I can drop/change from that.  Maybe he would prefer to create a visual timeline with figures/events, drop the vocab and some of the comprehension type questions, and go for the more analytical questions?  Or maybe I should just let him do history all summer?  I dunno. :001_rolleyes:

 

FWIW---We were originally going to do HO L3 Medieval and I even purchased all the books (used!), but after he perused the spine for HO and a sample of SWB, he much preferred SWB. The HO spine is very dry.  But, since I already had all of the literature, what I've done is add it and other appropriate lit selections to a book basket for him to select from.  He likes this.  I'm not actually using the HO guide.  I'm being selective about our lit discussions so he will read much more than we will discuss and that's ok.  ;)

[Reefgazer]

DD is doing H.O. Level 2 and when she gets deep in the weeds with 15 definitions, 10 people, and a 5 paragraph essay in the same week, I just reduce what I can.  So I may have her summary of a person be 1 concise paragraph instead of a page, or do the definitions orally, or skip some aspect of a lesson. 

My 10th grader is doing History of the Medieval World this year with the study guide.  He is getting through about 2 chapters a week.  Originally I planned on 5 chapters every 2 weeks, but the reality is that 2 a week seems to be his max.   The chapters ARE short, but they are also packed with information and it is hard for him to keep some of the names straight (I'm looking at you, China).  He is a strong reader with a humanities bent and he is enjoying the book.

 

This thread is good for me---I think maybe I've been too hard on him (too much :banghead:  over not sticking to the original schedule).  Thank you for starting it.

 

He likes the mapping exercises, so dropping them would take away from his enjoyment.  He does complain that some chapters have like 20 important people/things to write about and then others only have a handful, so progressing through is not exactly steady (some chapters take him a lot more time than others).  Soooo...I'm trying to figure out how to make this more doable for him.  He is not having to spend a crazy amount of time on it, but I agree that 2 chapters a week is his max if he continues as is, which is pretty much a year round history course.  Since he takes the summers off due to other interests and obligations, I won't push him to do history all summer.  I need to look over the study guide again and see what I can drop/change from that.  Maybe he would prefer to create a visual timeline with figures/events, drop the vocab and some of the comprehension type questions, and go for the more analytical questions?  Or maybe I should just let him do history all summer?  I dunno. :001_rolleyes:

 

FWIW---We were originally going to do HO L3 Medieval and I even purchased all the books (used!), but after he perused the spine for HO and a sample of SWB, he much preferred SWB. The HO spine is very dry.  But, since I already had all of the literature, what I've done is add it and other appropriate lit selections to a book basket for him to select from.  He likes this.  I'm not actually using the HO guide.  I'm being selective about our lit discussions so he will read much more than we will discuss and that's ok.  ;)

 

[happypamama]

Literature -- I will be using a combination of Things I Think She Should Read, whether they correspond with history or not, and whatever is listed in History Odyssey's Level 3 stuff.  They've always had excellent literature suggestions for history.  Of course, my problem for middle ages is keeping the literature list reasonable and not too overboard, hahaha. 

 

Maps -- I'm undecided.  I love SWB's suggestions, but they will take a long time, and I'm not sure they will yield a big enough dividend to warrant the time spent (unlike outlining and notes and all, which I think will definitely be worth the time spent).  We might skip mapwork, or we might use the ones from History Odyssey, or we might do a modified version of SWB's recommendations, haven't quite decided yet.