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No secrets allowed??


Joker
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I've read on two threads here recently with posts about how secrets aren't allowed in their families. Is this a big thing? Do many here teach/parent that secrets aren't allowed? I'm a bit shocked by the idea that secrets are considered so wrong. Dh and I have actually told our dds that it's okay to have secrets, especially between one another. We've also told them how we wouldn't pry for that information because it would be rude. I don't expect them to tell me everything, especially not as it happens. I definitely didn't tell my own parents but much of it was told later on in life accompanied by a lot of laughter. FTR, my dds are rather open with us and tell us a lot that I wouldn't have told my own parents. I also know that they keep some things to themselves and I honor their privacy. Is the no secret thing only between certain people and things or do you seriously expect no secrets at all? I'm honestly curious.

 

 

ETA: I also wondering about ages. Are secrets okay for some ages and not for others?

Edited by Joker
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Yup  - pretty much no secrets here up until they are old enough to distinquish between a good secret and a bad secret.

 

I think this was a talking point around childhood abuse.  Many abusers convince young children to keep the abuse a secret.  Telling kids they can't have secrets from their parents at a young age would hopefully help the child reveal anything that was going on with them.

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We try to teach that information, like property, has a "rightful owner".  And that they should not share information with someone other than it's rightful owner.  And that it's wrong for people to ask them to keep information from it's rightful owner.  And that if they aren't sure, here is a list of people that they can ask (in case we would normally be the people that they would ask, but someone has told them to keep something from us).  We teach that both sides of this are equally wrong.  Sharing information that isn't someone else's business, as well as withholding information that IS someone's business.

 

ETA: one example of this is that I have fibroids and they cause me some problems.  It's not a secret absolutely (obviously, because I'm sharing it here) but I haven't talked to my kids about it (even though one is a teen and could fully understand) because I just don't feel it's their business.

Edited by TammyS
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No secrets.  Surprises are ok.  That doesn't mean that I pump my kids for any and all details about everything.  But it does mean that we don't purposefully keep things hidden in our family. 

 

So, it's not okay for siblings to only talk to friends or one another about crushes but leave out parents? It's not okay to share one bad grade with a friend or sibling but keep it from parents for a time? 

 

I find it so interesting because I had so many secrets with my siblings! I've seen my own dds do the same. Youngest knew oldest was gay way before we did. Oldest knew the crush of youngest way before we did. And so on.  It's never bothered me and I've never thought it was wrong so I wondered when I saw two recent posts. Maybe I'm reading secrets as something different, though.

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I teach dd that anyone who says "don't tell Mum or Dad" are behaving badly and she should tell us immediately. A court appointed psychologist did that, carefully avoiding the word "secret" so I couldn't call her out on it. It broke something in our relationship that has never recovered, even though she has never been one to blab all her business. That wench is not the only person to have made herself an exception to that rule, but I can't do anything about it.  :glare:

 

That is entirely different to not telling something because you choose not to. Not everything is everybody else's business.

Edited by Rosie_0801
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So, it's not okay for siblings to only talk to friends or one another about crushes but leave out parents? It's not okay to share one bad grade with a friend or sibling but keep it from parents for a time? 

 

I find it so interesting because I had so many secrets with my siblings! I've seen my own dds do the same. Youngest knew oldest was gay way before we did. Oldest knew the crush of youngest way before we did. And so on.  It's never bothered me and I've never thought it was wrong so I wondered when I saw two recent posts. Maybe I'm reading secrets as something different, though.

If they are purposefully keeping it from you, I would wonder why.  Are they afraid of your reaction?

 

As far as your examples - we homeschool so there are no grades of any kind hidden from us. . .   But if they were in a B & M school, then yes, I would expect to be told grades if I asked for them.  It's my business as a parent to facilitate my children's education - of course I need to know if they are struggling in some area.  Crushes - eh.  A crush generally isn't acted on so I don't really care.  But I would wonder what happened to our relationship if I did not know of their significant relationships.

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We don't have a "no secrets" rule but have discussed that it's not appropriate for other adults to tell them to keep secrets from us. We've also encouraged them to tell us about things that cause them stress or worry, not keep them secret because they don't want us to worry or be upset.

 

My kids can't keep grades secret. I can look them up online whenever I want.

Edited by Word Nerd
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Yet, I had, and continue to have, great relationships with my parents and didn't tell them those things. It had zero to do with them but was all about me. I can see all the grades but there has been a time or two when they have received a really bad grade that they didn't say anything before I saw it. It was about them being upset about it; not my reaction. 

 

I find the conversation interesting. I actually like that my dds are so close and do have those secrets and inside jokes. I was surprised to see more than one post recently saying they expect no secrets. 

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We don't have that rule here. Your own opinions, feelings, etc. are yours. You can keep them secret if you want.

 

We do talk about how there are things you need to tell though - if someone hurts you physically or touches you in a way that makes you uncomfortable, if someone is breaking the law or a serious house rule, if someone or you are being bullied, if something that isn't yours or yours alone got broken, etc.

 

I think it's important to instill a sense of personal privacy for kids. Obviously when they're little, they don't need or want much. As they get older, they need more. I think kids inevitably have to have secrets as they grow up. I think especially of kids who turn out to be gay. The idea that they're not "allowed" to have that secret (even if that's not the intention) feels uncomfortable to me. There are other things like that too - desires about college, careers, first loves, etc. Those deserve to be private.

 

I think the idea of secrets vs. surprises makes sense. I can respect that... just not the right one for us...

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Hmm. I can't imagine a scenario where someone would be able to enforce a no secrets rule. From my experience growing up, the households with parents who believed they could control that had the children who kept the most secrets. And they were really good at keeping those secrets. Most of my friends ds kept everything from their parents which always baffled me. I could tell my mom anything because she never assumed she had the right to know everything. The only thing I never told her were truely personal and had she attempted to pry that info from me I would have lost all trust in her and likely stopped talking to her altogether.

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Sometimes secrets siblings are supposed to keep from parents become a real burden on someone.

 

We tell DS it's fine to make plans to surprise someone, but nobody should be asking him to keep a secret from his parents. (That's not the same as expecting him to tell us his every thought and feeling.)

Edited by whitehawk
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Secrets hurt families.  I come from a family where things are not talked about or kept secret and I found it to be very hurtful.  So I tell my kids the honest truth about things.  I also don't like surprises so I usually let the kids give me a list of things they like or want so I can give them something that they will like or use.  Too many times surprise presents are a disappointment  and then I have to feel bad or guilty because I don't like it.  I don't like surprise parties either.  And sometimes I even read spoilers if I am thinking that something may have an ending that I won't like so that I am not overly hurt by it.

 

 

That's just my 2 cents.  Now that doesn't mean you have to share every little detail but important stuff should be out in the open.

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I don't mind personal privacy or sharing your own info with only the people you want to know it (ie other kids, other trusted adults)... That's more about 'having business of their own' than what I think of as secret-keeping.

 

It's more that they shouldn't be asked *by adults* to keep things from their parents. Anything from sprinkles on sandwiches from Grandma, or 'don't tell the parents that I let you play instead of doing sports' from a coach, or whatever types of messages that encourage kids to leave their parents out of the details of their relationships with other adults.

 

And, there's using good judgement about times that they might need to disclose (to their own parents) the 'secrets' a friend shares with them -- a difficult type of decision to make as a child, but often an important one.

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Hmm. I can't imagine a scenario where someone would be able to enforce a no secrets rule. From my experience growing up, the households with parents who believed they could control that had the children who kept the most secrets. And they were really good at keeping those secrets. Most of my friends ds kept everything from their parents which always baffled me. I could tell my mom anything because she never assumed she had the right to know everything. The only thing I never told her were truely personal and had she attempted to pry that info from me I would have lost all trust in her and likely stopped talking to her altogether.

 

Yes. The families I knew growing up who demanded the most openness - no closing your door, parents who read their diaries, parents go through the bookbag and notebooks for random or regular checks, parents who had that sort of "no secrets" kinds of rules - those were the kids who seemed to keep the most big secrets and who had developed the most negative habits with hiding things. I'm thinking of someone I knew who had a house like that who lied to her parents about things that didn't matter all the time - seemingly just to stay in practice or something.

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Okay, many are saying not be asked to keep secrets by adults. I get that. That's not what I'm talking about.

 

I'm talking about secrets in general. One of the threads/posts was about someone keeping their college application essay a secret. At least one person posted it would bother them because no secrets were allowed. I was wondering how many think it's not okay for children/teens to keep secrets that have nothing to do with adults telling them to. 

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I don't say "no secrets" but...

 

My kids aren't allowed to gloat over others with secrets.  Whispering between two with the intention of excluding another friend = bad. (ETA: no hurting others with secrets - if something is shared quietly, and friend #3 never knows about it, that is fine.)

 

I encourage them to be on alert if someone asks them to keep a secret from parents - if it concerns them, then they should let me know.

 

 

Edited by Plink
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Secrets hurt families.  I come from a family where things are not talked about or kept secret and I found it to be very hurtful.  So I tell my kids the honest truth about things.  I also don't like surprises so I usually let the kids give me a list of things they like or want so I can give them something that they will like or use.  Too many times surprise presents are a disappointment  and then I have to feel bad or guilty because I don't like it.  I don't like surprise parties either.  And sometimes I even read spoilers if I am thinking that something may have an ending that I won't like so that I am not overly hurt by it.

 

 

That's just my 2 cents.  Now that doesn't mean you have to share every little detail but important stuff should be out in the open.

 

I'm wondering, in practice, what this means to you.  I have lots of things that I've never told my children, and can't really imagine telling them.  My mother has been married 5 times (none of them within my children's memory), so I've never told them about it.  I don't see how it can benefit them to know (and it's not like the guys are around or anything).  A family member who is close, biologically, but not physically or relationship-wise, has a spouse in prison for a pretty awful crime.  Because we don't have much relationship with this part of my family, I haven't told my children, even though the person has been in prison for two years. 

 

Would those be things you would tell your kids?  If so, why?  I'm honestly not trying to put you on the defensive, but just trying to understand your thinking.

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No, aside from other-adult-initiated purposeful-parent-exclusion secret keeping, I think it's important for kids to have privacy, independence of thoughts and feelings, a sense of autonomy, and a sense of true-choice about the things they want to share / disclose in relationship with their parents.

 

But I think that skill, like all of the skills of being a person, requires guidance during the young years -- including affirming (on one hand) that privacy is not secrecy, and (on the other hand) keeping big things to yourself might be tempting in cases where it might be wiser to share. It's part f developing good judgement.

Edited by bolt.
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We try to teach that information, like property, has a "rightful owner".  And that they should not share information with someone other than it's rightful owner.  And that it's wrong for people to ask them to keep information from it's rightful owner.  And that if they aren't sure, here is a list of people that they can ask (in case we would normally be the people that they would ask, but someone has told them to keep something from us).  We teach that both sides of this are equally wrong.  Sharing information that isn't someone else's business, as well as withholding information that IS someone's business.

 

ETA: one example of this is that I have fibroids and they cause me some problems.  It's not a secret absolutely (obviously, because I'm sharing it here) but I haven't talked to my kids about it (even though one is a teen and could fully understand) because I just don't feel it's their business.

 

Yes. I had a breast biopsy last year and didn't tell my dds. I was 'secretly' icing my breast and told them nothing. Later, when I found out it was not cancer, I told them. It was a secret. A big secret. Yet, I feel no guilt because I didn't want them to worry and they didn't. 

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We didn't specifically tell our son not to keep secrets. We had a lot of ongoing conversations about relationships - still have sometimes, too. 

 

We did teach him the difference between a surprise and a secret - that's easy to do with birthdays and Christmas. 

 

We told him that if someone tell him not to tell us something that involves him personally, that person was the one that couldn't be trusted. 

 

He knows if he is concerned about someone's safety, talking about it to a trustworthy adult or the police is better than keeping it to himself because adults know can get help for people. 

 

He knows he can talk to us about anything he wants to - I've worked at having empathetic responses through the teen years - it's really hard sometimes. He has told us some really significant things, things I know a lot of other people don't talk about. 

 

At some point during his teen years we had a totally unplanned discussion about how it's okay to have a private thought life, but that there are times when keeping things to yourself is more harmful than helpful. It was quite a long conversation, but I think it helped him resolve some inner struggles he was having about growing up - him knowing he didn't have to share his every thought with us was really helpful to us both. I told him if he ever had questions he was uncomfortable asking us, he could talk to his doctor. He also has a positive impression of counselors and understands that they can help people process things. 

 

At some point we had a discussion about how his story belongs to him and that it is his decision whether or not to share his thoughts with others. He knows he does not have to answer every question he is asked by a teacher or a doctor and that one purpose of long term friendships and dating relationships is to develop trust over a period of time.  Due to a situation with a friend's family (we were advised of a restraining order), we had a long talk about abuse and we talked about some warning signs he could be aware of and think about in order to protect himself as he develops friendships, dates and marries. 

 

 

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Yes. The families I knew growing up who demanded the most openness - no closing your door, parents who read their diaries, parents go through the bookbag and notebooks for random or regular checks, parents who had that sort of "no secrets" kinds of rules - those were the kids who seemed to keep the most big secrets and who had developed the most negative habits with hiding things. I'm thinking of someone I knew who had a house like that who lied to her parents about things that didn't matter all the time - seemingly just to stay in practice or something.

I agree and this has put me in an awkward position more than once. My girls don't tell me everything and I don't pry unless I think something is serious. Because I don't pry, they are more open with me. I see snapchats and Instagram posts and have made the mistake that assuming other parents were in the same information loop as I was. Many teens are keeping lots of secrets, some fine, some really not okay. Some girls seem to lie to their parents about everything, as a matter of habit.

But there is a big difference between little kids and teens. And the involvement of another adult.

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I am glad you asked this question, OP. Given the situation our family is going through right now (see my other thread), some of these responses are extremely helpful as I try to frame a discussion with DD on this very topic. I admit I've never thought much about the difference between secrecy and privacy. It's a very helpful distinction.

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Yes. I had a breast biopsy last year and didn't tell my dds. I was 'secretly' icing my breast and told them nothing. Later, when I found out it was not cancer, I told them. It was a secret. A big secret. Yet, I feel no guilt because I didn't want them to worry and they didn't. 

 

There are a lot of things that I haven't told my kids (about my upbringing, about my family that they don't know well), and some things about my health.  Before sharing information with my kids, I always ask myself: 1. Am I entitled to share this information?  I don't believe in sharing other's faults/failings with those who don't have a right or need to know.  So even though I know something to be true, I don't necessarily tell my kids (or anyone, for that matter).  2. Can they be helped by having this information, or, what is the upside?  3. Can they be hurt by having this information?  4. Do they NEED this information?

 

When I first suspected that I had fibroids (but also knew it might be cancer) I said absolutely nothing to the kids, because I for sure wasn't scaring them with the idea that I could have cancer unless I absolutely did.  When it turned out I didn't, I decided to keep it from them anyway, because there is no benefit to them knowing.  They can't do anything about it, it's not hard to keep it to myself, and it can sound scarier than it really is.

 

When a relative's spouse went to jail (kids know the relative and the spouse, but not well because my family is not close) for a pretty awful crime, and then the family member very quickly shacked up with another person, I kept all of it from my kids.  The spouse's failing is not my kids business, and they can't be helped by knowing about it.  The family member shacking up with someone new wasn't something my kids could be helped by knowing about it (and it could hurt the thread-thin relationship that does exist for my kids to know of these things).  But mostly, because we don't really see these people, maybe for a few minutes a few times a year, I just didn't see any upside to sharing this disturbing information. 

Edited by TammyS
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I never even thought about making no-secrets a rule.  My parents over shared.  In some ways that was good, in other ways it violated boundaries and caused me undue stress.  There were many times as a child that I was worried about adult things and I would have been happier if I had just been allowed to be a kid.  So I try to ask hypothetical questions about situations as they come up, so they get the benefit of having thought through things without the worry of actually having the stress.  I guess when I felt like someone was lying to me or manipulating me I pressed on, but generally I don't feel I have a right to every thing in their heads.  I do hope they trust me enough to come to me with anything at all - both for wisdom and faith that they can trust me.

 

I teach dd that anyone who says "don't tell Mum or Dad" are behaving badly and she should tell us immediately. A court appointed psychologist did that, carefully avoiding the word "secret" so I couldn't call her out on it. It broke something in our relationship that has never recovered, even though she has never been one to blab all her business. That wench is not the only person to have made herself an exception to that rule, but I can't do anything about it.  :glare:

 

That is entirely different to not telling something because you choose not to. Not everything is everybody else's business.

 

That is so horrifyingly egregious it makes me wonder if she was testing them to see if they would keep secrets.

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Quote thingy not working -- I agree with Farrar's posts. It would have struck me as profoundly disrespectful, back when my kids were little, to tell them they can't have secrets from me. Instead, we created a safe environment in which all of my children have grown up to confide in me far more than is comfortable...for me...LOL.

 

The other part of it was this: I taught them that the time may come when they really needed adult intervention of some kind but they didn't want to come to me. In that case, they didn't have to feel as if it were parents or nobody -- they knew who their trusted adults were in their life that they could go to, if they didn't want to start with me. If they needed help arranging a conversation with a counselor, I would do it with no questions asked. All of my children seemed very relieved to hear this.

 

Of course, we did talk about adults and anyone, really, who might try to get between them and me in various ways including telling them it was a secret. They knew that as soon as anyone told them not to tell Mama, that was actually a sign that they must tell Mama immediately. (I learned that from Gavin DeBecker, author of The Gift of Fear and Protecting the Gift. "Bad guys" will tell you how to stop them by telling you what NOT to do. "Don't tell" means "I might be stopped if you tell.")

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So, it's not okay for siblings to only talk to friends or one another about crushes but leave out parents? It's not okay to share one bad grade with a friend or sibling but keep it from parents for a time?

I'd draw the line exactly between those issues. Crushes would be personal (although if it threatens harm that would be a scenario where the "you don't always keep a secret" rule applies). A bad grade is my business because their education is my responsibility.

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My kids spend hours together and I have no idea what they talk about.  But I think they all know that anything they talk about might make it to my ears- there's no assumption that they are in a secret kids' club.  I think if one sibling asked another to keep a secret from me, that would place an undue burden on the sibling being asked.  The child is then forced to decide whether what they have learned is trivial or dangerous to the other child and needs to be told.  Even without a danger, asking someone to keep a secret as opposed to allowing them to make the decision with regard to respecting one's privacy means that the person asked is now beholden.  If they reveal the information by accident or necessity they are presumed to have betrayed a trust.  

 

I can't imagine my kids enjoying trying to keep track of what things they could talk about when I was in the room and what things that had to "not tell mom."

 

Peachy- I allowed a relative to push boundaries for years.  She would do something and get caught, then claim to have misunderstood or made a mistake.  She used to tell the kids not to tell me things, but they would forget so I think she stopped that trick (or maybe they got better at remembering).  I should have nipped in the bud 12 years ago when she first started stepping over the line between grandparent and parent and disrespecting our authority but I didn't.  If I were you, I'd be very honest with DD that some people do things intentionally to manipulate others and get their own way. If she's like my kids, once you explain that you had already told grandma "no" and she went behind your backs, your child will understand.  My kids were absolutely shocked that they had trusted someone who behaved so badly and pretty annoyed with me that I hadn't warned them. Long story short, IMO the lying to mom and dad is a control thing with grandma and needs to be stopped.  I wish I had done no or supervised- only contact years ago. :(  

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No secrets. Surprises are ok. That doesn't mean that I pump my kids for any and all details about everything. But it does mean that we don't purposefully keep things hidden in our family.

That's exactly how we teach it, mostly for safety reasons.

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I'm guessing at least one of the posts you're referencing is one of mine. So, let me first explain a difference.

 

A secret is something which is actively hidden

 

Privacy is something which simply remains unsaid. 

 

A surprise is a secret which will be revealed at a set time.

 

We allow lots of privacy, we love surprises, we do not allow secrets. 

 

I was a victim of severe abuse, enabled by secrecy. I also had many harmful secrets among my friends who were suicidal, harming others, and suffering from their own abuses. I have rarely seen a secret, as I define it, be a positive thing. I would rather sacrifice those few harmless secrets for the safety of hopefully exposing any harmful secrets in a heartbeat.

 

I am extremely (age appropriately)  open with my kids, far more than many parents would be (out of necessity, I have mental health problems with symptoms that are noticeable to a 3 year old and I refuse to lie to them about it). We try to foster a very open environment and relationships in our house. That doesn't mean a lack of privacy. I would never read a child's diary, and we allow closed doors, basically I put trust in my children to bring a secret to me, I don't go seeking them out, and I allow them privacy for their thoughts. To reference some of your examples

 

The essay issue - There seems to be no privacy reason why the subject would be a secret, since it will be revealed to those reading the essay. It is being actively hidden. I would not force it out of a child but I would be concerned about our relationship and why she does not feel safe telling me. 

 

Grades - Yep, that's a secret and I would have a problem with it. It is something in their life which requires support and attention and they are hiding it from the person responsible for supporting and attending to them.

 

Crushes - This falls under privacy, my kids can have a crush. I expect to know about it if anything actually happens, but while it is a (possibly embarrassing and confusing)  feeling they can certainly have their privacy to go through normal teenage feelings. I would like to think our relationship might be good enough that they would WANT to tell me, but, I certainly wouldn't force that. 

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I don't really buy that there's some clear line between secrets and privacy. I understand the link that Jean posted, but I think when there's a big push in a family to make it clear that you can't keep secrets that things that, for kids, would just be naturally private become things they have to keep private and are suddenly secrets as a result. I mean, that you have a crush on someone is private... until someone asks if you like anyone and suddenly it's a secret and not allowed, but if you don't want to tell, suddenly you're a liar or a secret keeper and that's not allowed.

 

I think in practice that probably a lot of the people in this thread probably have similar family attitudes. I mean, maybe it can be clear to kids that they can keep things private and that secrets are only a certain sort of thing. I just am not comfortable putting it that way to my kids. And growing up, most of the families who placed a high value on the no secrets sort of attitude definitely extended that to going through the kids' rooms, bags, and diaries, which is something I definitely won't be doing without a very specific, pretty dire reason - and for the diary thing, not at all.

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I don't really buy that there's some clear line between secrets and privacy. I understand the link that Jean posted, but I think when there's a big push in a family to make it clear that you can't keep secrets that things that, for kids, would just be naturally private become things they have to keep private and are suddenly secrets as a result. I mean, that you have a crush on someone is private... until someone asks if you like anyone and suddenly it's a secret and not allowed, but if you don't want to tell, suddenly you're a liar or a secret keeper and that's not allowed.

 

I think in practice that probably a lot of the people in this thread probably have similar family attitudes. I mean, maybe it can be clear to kids that they can keep things private and that secrets are only a certain sort of thing. I just am not comfortable putting it that way to my kids. And growing up, most of the families who placed a high value on the no secrets sort of attitude definitely extended that to going through the kids' rooms, bags, and diaries, which is something I definitely won't be doing without a very specific, pretty dire reason - and for the diary thing, not at all.

 

You're probably right, there is a grey area. For our family, the grey area is worth it for safety, since, because of our unique family situation we need to have openness. There are still more risks to my kids than an average kid because of family/past issues, and more potential for them to have confusing emotions they might want to keep secret but need to communicate to us, because of our sometimes difficult home life. So we accept the grey area, and that they might not get to have secret crushes, in order to address more serious issues. 

 

But, for the record, I would never consider going through their rooms or diaries. That is very wrong to me. We can be anti-secret while still trusting our kids to come to us and not totally invading their privacy. 

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This is a really interesting thread linguistically speaking. I think "secret" has a really different connotation for different people.

Yeah I caught that on the college essay thread. The OP was worried that her daughter didn't want to share her essay topic and a few parents said that wouldn't fly based on a no-secrets rule. To me, that clearly fell under the privacy heading.

Edited by Barb_
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Well, to be clear, we don't have any kind of a stated rule.  We talked more about "no secrets" when the kids were little - in connection with safety esp. as a way to guard against abuse.  My kids have a lot of privacy - more now that they are teens.  I don't make a big distinction between secrets vs. privacy with them in daily life but they do know that if there was reason for concern (a change in behavior, health, red flags in general) that privacy might have to be set aside in order for us to help them as parents. 

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We don't have a rule but have discussed "secrets" in terms of safety issues. Explaining it as a surprise is okay was easy for little ones to understand. Also as a gauge of acceptable behavior--if you're doing something that you can't tell mom or dad about or if someone wants you to do something and says not to tell mom or dad, it's probably a bad idea.

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It never occurred to me to tell our children they couldn't keep secrets.  We encouraged them to be open with us, and we were always very honest and open with one another as it was just our way.  But we had no rule about keeping secrets.  In fact, that even seems a little strange to me.  If one of my dd's is uncomfortable talking to me about something for whatever reason but IS comfortable talking to her older sister, then I"m just happy she has an older sister she can talk to!  Of course we did talk about adults/sexual abuse and things like that.  Again, we have always talked very openly about things, but not in the form of rules.

Edited by J-rap
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My daughter is only 5, and she has no siblings--until this year, she didn't even have friends (by her own choice; she stayed by my side when given the opportunity to play with other kids).

 

She has been taught that if someone tells her not to tell her parents, she should tell us immediately. (My mom had a fit when I told her that, even in joking, she shouldn't tell my daughter not to tell us that she'd given her sweets before dinner.) It's ok if it's "you can tell dad but not mom because this is a surprise for her," but it's not ok for it to be a "secret from" or "surprise for" both of us.

 

She's also been taught that if anything makes her uncomfortable, she is to tell us immediately. We've heard a good bit of "So-and-so didn't want to play with the toy I wanted us to play with, and it made me sad" as a result of that rule, but we're willing to deal with that, and it actually helps us teach her how to compromise and develop good relationships, so it's a good thing--even if my heart does stop for a moment when she tells me "Something made me feel uncomfortable."

 

She's also been taught that (1) she never has to give hugs or physical affection if she doesn't want to, (2) she never has to express verbal affection if she doesn't want to, and (3) if she doesn't want to talk about something, that's fine, though we're always available if she changes her mind, and this privacy doesn't apply to the two situations above (being told not to tell and feeling uncomfortable).

 

I expect that as she gets older, has more experience with social relationships, etc., that the "feeling uncomfortable" rule will be clarified through her experience and through our more direct teaching. For us, it's more about preventing abuse than preventing privacy (even when that privacy crosses into actively keeping secrets, which is fine too as long as they aren't harmful).

 

Actually, there are some situations already where we've told her to actively keep secrets: she realized on a Disney cruise that the characters were just people in costume, not the real characters, and we told her to "pretend" and not to tell anyone, because the other kids didn't know and the people in costume liked it when she pretended. We've told her that, even though we don't do Santa in our house, she should "pretend" and not tell our neighbor, who does believe in Santa, that it's not real. We do explain the reasons behind these secrets, and I think she understands as well as a 5yo can that these secrets are for the benefit of those from whom we're keeping them, not for our own benefit.

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I blatantly have secrets with my son. Dh has post tramatic stress disorder. When the PTSD is high (like right now during the holidays) Dh's responses are past not normal and verge on irrationally hurtful. We keep most all of our life from him and paint a very Hollywood image of the world while at home. This is highly advocated by our therapist since Dh has real trouble distinguishing his reality from everyone elses' right now. It is very much a situation of letting Dh believe what he needs to. Not lying, but not disclosing either.

 

We have also been doing extensive work on boundaries. One of the largest parts of that therapy is the idea of good secrets. Not privacy, but secrets. It is your right to openly keep things that happen to you, impact you, and are emotional to you a secret. No one has a rigt to demand that information. Anyone who has ever had a narcissistic or troubled family member can probably relate to that. The line between parenting and controlling quickly blurs during the teen and tween years. In our household, secrets are necessary to stay emotionally healthy.

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So, it's not okay for siblings to only talk to friends or one another about crushes but leave out parents? It's not okay to share one bad grade with a friend or sibling but keep it from parents for a time? 

 

I find it so interesting because I had so many secrets with my siblings! I've seen my own dds do the same. Youngest knew oldest was gay way before we did. Oldest knew the crush of youngest way before we did. And so on.  It's never bothered me and I've never thought it was wrong so I wondered when I saw two recent posts. Maybe I'm reading secrets as something different, though.

 

It's much more delicate than that.

My kids confide in each other and their friends.  I don't need to know about specific crushes or pop star fantasies.  But that's not how we define "secret".  Those are just embarrassing things they don't want to discuss with parents.

 

A secret is hiding important information.  If your friend or sibling tells you they're doing something dangerous, they need help, not a secret keeper. 

An adult imposing a secret on a child is ALWAYS inappropriate (unless we're talking surprise parties or gifts and things along those lines.)  It's an imbalance of power, it's undermining a parent/child relationship, it blurs boundaries, and it has the potential to set them up for dangerous situations.

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I've read on two threads here recently with posts about how secrets aren't allowed in their families. Is this a big thing? Do many here teach/parent that secrets aren't allowed? I'm a bit shocked by the idea that secrets are considered so wrong. Dh and I have actually told our dds that it's okay to have secrets, especially between one another. We've also told them how we wouldn't pry for that information because it would be rude. I don't expect them to tell me everything, especially not as it happens. I definitely didn't tell my own parents but much of it was told later on in life accompanied by a lot of laughter. FTR, my dds are rather open with us and tell us a lot that I wouldn't have told my own parents. I also know that they keep some things to themselves and I honor their privacy. Is the no secret thing only between certain people and things or do you seriously expect no secrets at all? I'm honestly curious.

 

 

ETA: I also wondering about ages. Are secrets okay for some ages and not for others?

 

I encourage my children to use their discretion to tell me things that concern them. I would limit contact with any adult who tells my child to keep a secret, a red flag for grooming behavior. Keeping secrets with other children, I would hope my kids would tell me if the other child could come to harm.

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Secrets are fine here. Whispering them to each other while other people are in the room is not. If you have a secret, you have to keep that fact...secret. It is rude to do otherwise.

Regarding the OP, I have an almost visceral reaction to "no secrets." I'm working that through to understand why.

 

I did tell my kids that they should never honor

another adult (other than me or their Dad) secret from an adult who insists on keeping something from us; the parents.

 

On the college essay, I am torn. I give teens a lot of space and leeway - I think it is appropriate to do so. However, applying for and attending college impacts me directly for years to come. I believe that I need to have some editing say.

 

I can't imagine ever feeling comfortable with a "no secret" rule. That said, I deal with families all week every week where keeping secrets is damaging. We work through that individually, the history behind the expectation of secret, the value of finding not building a safe ace to share.

 

Finally, regarding Lolly's quote, kindness and courtesy are always expected!

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