I can't believe MIL put us in this position!!

[PeachyDoodle]

Several weeks ago, MIL announced that she was going to take DD to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal Studios in Orlando, 9 hours away. She only told DH and me (and not DD), although it wasn't so much a request as a demand. DH immediately shot the idea down, as his mother is pretty deeply in debt and has no business spending money on a big vacation. (They were in the midst of trying to straighten out her finances at the time.) However, she kept coming back with it.

 

After a few more tries, she declared that she was giving this trip to DD for Christmas. DH said no. Again. Aside from the debt issues (which are big -- she is single with no savings and living by putting groceries and other expenses on her credit cards, and we will be the ones picking up the tab when she winds up destitute), we dislike the idea for several reasons:

1. We just took a major family vacation to Disney World a few months ago.
2. HP is something DD and I have enjoyed getting into together this past year (neither of us had read the books before) and it's something we bonded over. We have differing interests and this doesn't happen often. We had major fun putting together a HP party for her birthday. I was looking forward to taking her to WWoHP myself (in a few years, since the aforementioned DW trip tapped us out for awhile).
3. Although she wants to take along her 25-year-old niece on this trip, MIL has no intention of doing anything of similar import with DS. She has always favored DD a little, and we've had to have discussions about this with her before, but never on this level. For example, she will take DD to the library or out for a milkshake but has to be flat-out told that she has to take DS too. If she wanted one-on-one time with each of them, that would be one thing, but that's not the deal here. Having just visited DW, DS will absolutely know what he's missing out on. MIL seems to think he's major trouble to put up with (and I know I'm biased, but he's not -- he's just not -- he is an energetic 5yo boy, but well-behaved and respectful). This nothing surprising, as she also favors BIL over DH, but he doesn't have any kids for her to spoil.

Despite all this, DH and I had (privately) discussed relenting and allowing this trip to go forward, especially after his mother continued to press the issue. We didn't want a major falling out with MIL (well, dh didn't want one... :glare: ). But today, DD confessed that she has known about the trip for over a month, since MIL told her about it. Worse, MIL instructed her not to tell DH or me about it!

 

DH and I both feel that we can't allow this to stand. He is livid. I am actually not so surprised; she's done this kind of thing before. But now we are forced to be the bad guys. We feel like there's no choice but to put our foot (feet?) down and tell DD she can't go. She is a super good kid who deserves to have fun and doesn't deserve to be disappointed. But we just can't let MIL get away with this kind of thing.

 

We will absolutely be having a conversation with DD about what to do when an adult tells her to keep secrets from her parents. Absolutely. The revelation came out during a Thanksgiving meal with my family, so we haven't addressed it yet, but we will.

 

I just can't believe a mature adult would do such a thing. I wouldn't trust her taking my kid to McDonald's right now, much less on a 600-mile trip!!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Well, I think you're seeing the situation pretty clearly. I wouldn't let this woman take my child out back to look at the poison ivy.

[catz]

Holy cats and dogs, I would be SO mad.  For so many reasons.  The debt thing alone has me fuming.  What a ridiculous idea.  I'm glad your DH is livid and I hope he has a conversation spelling out how messed up this is. 

 

Honestly, maybe you should talk to her doctor?  Could she have dementia?  Or maybe other mental illness?

Edited November 27, 2015 by WoolySocks

[TammyS]

You are NOT being the bad guys!  MIL is being the bad (though I wouldn't put it so directly to dd).  What I would say to DD is this, "Sweetheart, we know this is disappointing, and it's entirely not your fault, however, apparently Grandma got confused (and who knows, maybe she did, because she sincerely convinced herself that you would allow dd to go), but there is no trip with Grandma to Disney World.  We know this is disappointing, and again we emphasize that you've done nothing wrong."

 

I doubt this is the first disappointment in her life, but for sure it won't be the last.  At least you can use it as an opportunity to help her practice good ways of handling disappointment.

 

And I would so put MIL on a time-out with the kids, and 100% supervision for a loooooooong time after that.

[zoobie]

Oh heck no! I can't see how old your DD is, but it's probably not too early to learn that Grandma has boundary issues. I wouldn't let her be alone with my kids after pulling that crap.

 

And no, you aren't stuck paying her bills. You can set boundaries too as an example to your children!

[abba12]

I would be fuming. We teach out kids that there are no secrets from parents, I would flip if a family member told her to keep a secret like that. Worse yet, she's done it to paint you as the bad guys to DD if you say no.

 

At least your husband is on the same page as you.... I have no idea what to do in that situation but frankly I would not trust her alone with my kids, personally. 

[abba12]

I was assuming your daughter was a teen. I just went back to look at your signature, she's only 10? nope, that trip isn't happening. What sort of person tells a 10 year old theyre going to do something big like that without even clearing it with the parents! 

[PeachyDoodle]

Holy cats and dogs, I would be SO mad.  For so many reasons.  The debt thing alone has me fuming.  What a ridiculous idea.  I'm glad your DH is livid and I hope he has a conversation spelling out how messed up this is. 

 

Honestly, maybe you should talk to her doctor?  Could she have dementia?  Or maybe other mental illness?

 

I do think there's something wrong, but nobody else seems to, including FIL (they were married 30+ years before they divorced and remain on good terms). DH says, "Of course there's something wrong with her -- she's got no &*^% sense!" She's been like this his whole life. I wouldn't begin to know what you'd call it -- there's some OCD-type stuff, but mostly she's just flat-out dumb, and selfish and disrespectful to boot.

 

The secrecy thing is a serious problem, though. This is not the first time she's told DD not to tell us something. But the last time (that I know of), DD was about 4, and the secret was that MIL let her make peanut butter and ice-cream sprinkle sandwiches for lunch on the days she baby-sat. Which I wasn't happy about, but I didn't see it as a major problem. Maybe I should have.

 

At this point, I don't even think I can trust her to keep the kids for a few hours. Which is unfortunate, as she is the only grandparent who is readily available during the week. And I know she loves the kids. But this is unacceptable.

[bolt.]

Your reaction is completely normal and proportional to the offence.

 

To make the situation better, I think your DD (a good kid) will be understanding if you lead with the "I am planning to take you myself." -- line, then transition to "Gma can't get what she wants by lying, it's not right for her to try these tactics." Followed by, "And Gma honestly can't afford it, and would be unwisely bringing herself closer to poverty just for a fun activity." By that point most 'good kids' won't still want to accept the trip from her either -- and so she (DD) will most likely be mostly-ok with waiting for her trip with you. (But still sad and in need of comfort/empathy about it.)

 

It's tough using a beloved person to illustrate bad judgement vs good boundaries... But it's a really good illustration of bad judgement vs good boundaries. She'll get it if you explain it.

Edited November 27, 2015 by bolt.

[TammyS]

Maybe going to the pot sale will make you feel better?

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/575781-instant-pot-sale/

 

[PeachyDoodle]

I was assuming your daughter was a teen. I just went back to look at your signature, she's only 10? nope, that trip isn't happening. What sort of person tells a 10 year old theyre going to do something big like that without even clearing it with the parents! 

 

Nope, she's 10. She's very responsible, but right now I think she would be the adult on the trip. And frankly I feel like she's just too young to be going that far away without an adult I trust 100%. And not only did she NOT clear it with us, we EXPRESSLY said NO!

 

Your reaction is completely normal and proportional to the offence.

 

To make the situation better, I think your DD (a good kid) will be understanding if you lead with the "I am planning to take you myself." -- line, then transition to "Gma can't get what she wants by lying, it's not right for her to try these tactics." Followed by, "And Gma honestly can't afford it, and would be unwisely bringing herself closer to poverty just for a fun activity." By that point most 'good kids' won't want to accept the trip from her either -- and she will most likely be mostly-ok with waiting for her trip with you.

 

It's tough using a beloved person to illustrate bad judgement vs good boundaries... But it's a really good illustration of bad judgement vs good boundaries. She'll get it if you explain it.

 

I like this way of explaining the situation. DD is such an easygoing kid, and I don't worry at all about her being angry. But knowing that she will accept the disappointment almost makes it harder to dish it out. :(

[PeachyDoodle]

Maybe going to the pot sale will make you feel better?

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/575781-instant-pot-sale/

 

Bahahahaha! I was just thinking that I don't drink, but maybe it's time to start...

[ThisIsTheDay]

I just can't believe a mature adult would do such a thing. I wouldn't trust her taking my kid to McDonald's right now, much less on a 600-mile trip!!

 

But your mil has already shown numerous times that she's not a mature adult.  Your mil sounds like mine, clueless as to boundary issues, with a fantasy relationship/secret friendship with her granddaughter.  What your dd deserves is a mature grandparent who knows appropriate boundaries and who does not make inappropriate, childish secret promises with a ten year old.

 

We began limiting access to our kids. It was unfortunate but had to be done to protect them.  I wish things had been different, but *that* was the position we were put into.

 

[PeachyDoodle]

But your mil has already shown numerous times that she's not a mature adult.  Your mil sounds like mine, clueless as to boundary issues, with a fantasy relationship/secret friendship with her granddaughter.  What your dd deserves is a mature grandparent who knows appropriate boundaries and who does not make inappropriate, childish secret promises with a ten year old.

 

We began limiting access to our kids. It was unfortunate but had to be done to protect them.  I wish things had been different, but *that* was the position we were put into.

 

 

Very true. Fortunately our kids do have three mature grandparents, two of whom they are close to (my parents). We see FIL less often but he is good to them.

 

It still makes me sad. DD has always been close with MIL -- but maybe that's because MIL has acted like a playmate rather than a grandparent.

 

DH is going to tell her that she is running the risk of severing any relationship with her grandchildren if she continues to act this way. We will be limiting contact for sure. There was a possibility that I might be going back to work part-time, which means we would have needed her to baby-sit one day per week. Now I am so relieved that the job fell through.

 

[Okra]

Your understanding this completely accurately.   Just explain it to your daughter all the reasons, and I bet she will understand too.

[shanezomom]

My reaction: I think it's a good thing your husband is as upset as you are. It would really be bad if you were the only one who sees this as a problem.

 

Your MIL sounds like she's got a power game going where she is dividing to conquer. You and dh should not give in, in my opinion, and if MIL threatens to still spend the money even if you keep dd home, don't give in to the guilt or her poor financial choices. She needs to see that you and dh are unified, have drawn firm boundaries and that you're going to protect your dd from being used as a pawn. If HP has been a bonding area between you and dd, please protect that for yourself. Grandma doesn't have the right to take that from you.    

 

Best wishes to you all as you work through this. Maybe you can remind your hubby that you are there to back him up. Sounds like he grew up with some tricky emotional stuff in his home. 

[Ausmumof3]

Tbh, aside from the secrecy issue with your daughter which would have me fuming, it sounds like you might need to work towards not enabling her spending habits by paying her debts. If she needs food or practical help that's fine but if you keep paying off her credit care she's probably going to keep thinking she can use it for whatever she wants to.

[PeachyDoodle]

Tbh, aside from the secrecy issue with your daughter which would have me fuming, it sounds like you might need to work towards not enabling her spending habits by paying her debts. If she needs food or practical help that's fine but if you keep paying off her credit care she's probably going to keep thinking she can use it for whatever she wants to.

 

Oh no, we absolutely HAVE NOT paid her debts. We couldn't if we wanted to (and we don't). This is another looooong story, but the help DH was offering was putting together a budget so she can live within her means. Which she refused to do. She is convinced that if she sells her house (which she is now underwater in, thanks to having maxed out her home equity line and letting the house fall apart around her), all will be magically fixed. She is paying on a vacation home that she owns with her brother and mother and can't afford. Her car payment is more than our rent.

 

She's built a house of cards that can only last another year -- two at the most. It's more or less inevitable that she will have to file for bankruptcy. That would probably be a best-case scenario, actually. We have no plans to take responsibility for ANY of that. But, should she come to the point that she's homeless and can't afford to eat, it will be our problem, like it or not. For all his talk, I know DH is not going to let his mother starve. Neither will I, for that matter. But she's not going to take the food from our kids' mouths (or the money from their college funds) because of her stupid decisions.

 

He has begged and pleaded and yelled and reasoned, but she is not budging. She worked for thirty years and deserves to have fun, she says. And now this.

 

She keeps saying this trip is "free" because they will stay at some place that's connected to a time-share her mother owns. But we all know that having a place to stay does not equal "free trip." She literally cannot see that. And, as I said, the cost of the trip is only one of our objections to it.

 

[Ausmumof3]

Oh no, we absolutely HAVE NOT paid her debts. We couldn't if we wanted to (and we don't). This is another looooong story, but the help DH was offering was putting together a budget so she can live within her means. Which she refused to do. She is convinced that if she sells her house (which she is now underwater in, thanks to having maxed out her home equity line and letting the house fall apart around her), all will be magically fixed. She is paying on a vacation home that she owns with her brother and mother and can't afford. Her car payment is more than our rent.

 

She's built a house of cards that can only last another year -- two at the most. It's more or less inevitable that she will have to file for bankruptcy. That would probably be a best-case scenario, actually. We have no plans to take responsibility for ANY of that. But, should she come to the point that she's homeless and can't afford to eat, it will be our problem, like it or not. For all his talk, I know DH is not going to let his mother starve. Neither will I, for that matter. But she's not going to take the food from our kids' mouths (or the money from their college funds) because of her stupid decisions.

 

He has begged and pleaded and yelled and reasoned, but she is not budging. She worked for thirty years and deserves to have fun, she says. And now this.

 

She keeps saying this trip is "free" because they will stay at some place that's connected to a time-share her mother owns. But we all know that having a place to stay does not equal "free trip." She literally cannot see that. And, as I said, the cost of the trip is only one of our objections to it.

 

Oh good! For some reason I thought you were going to be paying her credit card debt! Maybe I need more coffee...

[TammyS]

Oh no, we absolutely HAVE NOT paid her debts. We couldn't if we wanted to (and we don't). This is another looooong story, but the help DH was offering was putting together a budget so she can live within her means. Which she refused to do. She is convinced that if she sells her house (which she is now underwater in, thanks to having maxed out her home equity line and letting the house fall apart around her), all will be magically fixed. She is paying on a vacation home that she owns with her brother and mother and can't afford. Her car payment is more than our rent.

 

She's built a house of cards that can only last another year -- two at the most. It's more or less inevitable that she will have to file for bankruptcy. That would probably be a best-case scenario, actually. We have no plans to take responsibility for ANY of that. But, should she come to the point that she's homeless and can't afford to eat, it will be our problem, like it or not. For all his talk, I know DH is not going to let his mother starve. Neither will I, for that matter. But she's not going to take the food from our kids' mouths (or the money from their college funds) because of her stupid decisions.

 

He has begged and pleaded and yelled and reasoned, but she is not budging. She worked for thirty years and deserves to have fun, she says. And now this.

 

She keeps saying this trip is "free" because they will stay at some place that's connected to a time-share her mother owns. But we all know that having a place to stay does not equal "free trip." She literally cannot see that. And, as I said, the cost of the trip is only one of our objections to it.

 

 

:grouphug:   I feel sooooo bad for you.  You could have just been describing my own mother, including the car payments that are double the mortgage, letting the house fall apart (because for some reason there is money for vacations, but not for a roofer), and the "I worked hard and deserve it".  You are not dealing with a rational person.  This will never change.  I would literally start thinking about which room you will be housing her in (I've been thinking about it for a while, and how it would work, and will my marriage survive.)  I'm so sorry. 

 

[PeachyDoodle]

:grouphug:   I feel sooooo bad for you.  You could have just been describing my own mother, including the car payments that are double the mortgage, letting the house fall apart (because for some reason there is money for vacations, but not for a roofer), and the "I worked hard and deserve it".  You are not dealing with a rational person.  This will never change.  I would literally start thinking about which room you will be housing her in (I've been thinking about it for a while, and how it would work, and will my marriage survive.)  I'm so sorry. 

 

 

You are right. Nothing about her is rational. She honestly cannot understand the consequences of her actions. She is incapable of foreseeing them, and she refuses to listen when DH warns her.

 

We are making plans to build a house, and the truth is, there will not be room in it for her, at least not as long as the children are at home. I have no idea what we will do if it comes to that. Hope DH's brother is willing/able to take her in, I guess. Or possibly that she will inherit her mother's house. But she has four brothers, and I harbor no illusions that they won't insist that everything be divided evenly. They are all so selfish and greedy -- I hope to high heaven DH's grandma has everything spelled out in her will. And BIL is single, intermittently employed, suffers from anxiety, and lives in a one-bedroom apartment. So that's not looking good either.

 

Short of getting a court to order power of attorney, though, I have no idea what else we can do. She has always thought DH is helpless and, frankly, stupid, so she doesn't listen to him. This despite the fact that DH is a successful sales executive who single-handedly supports a family of four, is well-respected in the community and serves on a couple of non-profit boards, has been happily married for 15 years, etc. She is not mentally ill -- at least not to the point that any judge would give us control of her finances. And DH has enough stress on him from work and home; he doesn't need her crap on top of it, especially if SHE refuses to acknowledge the problem and make some effort to fix it.

[TammyS]

 She is not mentally ill --

 

If she's like my mother, no, she isn't mentally ill.  She's just unbelievably (as in, no one would believe unless they actually saw it) childish.  It's a person in middle age behaving like a 12 year old (it's not fair!  i deserve it!  you're mean!).

 

If you are building, and there is any chance that you will be taking her in, I would strongly encourage you to try to consider her in your plans.  Not for her sake, but for your own.  I'm not suggesting a MIL apartment....but if you can figure out someway to include a SECRET (do NOT let her know of your back up plan, lest she make it her primary plan) plan to minimize the impact of her living with you, I think you'll be glad of it in the long run.  Could you make one of the bedrooms large enough to subdivide later, into a small room for her?  Or build your den so that it has a bathroom off to the side and could be converted to a bed/bath, if you get desperate?

 

We have an enclosed sunporch that I'm eyeing for a conversion someday.  It's got the kitchen/dining rooms between it and the living room and our bedrooms, so that even if she's here, there will be some level of privacy for everyone.

 

:grouphug:   This situation sucks, and it ain't gonna get better. 

[MomatHWTK]

http://narcissistsupport.com/narcissists-top-manipulation-techniques/

[mamiof5]

So sorry you are having to deal with this. No, you are not the bad guys. She might not be happy, but dd is old enough to understand your reasoning behind it. I can't stand it when people go behind my back when something related to our kids, that's just a big NO.

[ThisIsTheDay]

. She has always thought DH is helpless and, frankly, stupid, so she doesn't listen to him. This despite the fact that DH is a successful sales executive who single-handedly supports a family of four, is well-respected in the community and serves on a couple of non-profit boards, has been happily married for 15 years, etc.

 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Sigh. I'm so sorry.  This is mine exactly (along with other similarities I posted earlier).  My mil refuses advice from her adult children, but she will listen to ANYone else, anyone else's kid, any stranger, or any ad on tv and then think that her children "just don't know" how things are.  She's also terribly irresponsible with money, but that goes along with her immaturity and refusal to accept responsibility for any of her decisions.

 

It's so horrible and hurtful to the children, even if they are adults, maybe even more so. It's so damaging to be treated like that by your own parent, to not feel that approval or respect.

[Starr]

You can tell dd that you don't like the secrecy but also gm really can't afford the trip. I would question why you were thinking about agreeing with the plans. Gm probably thought you would come around and wanted to be the one to tell dd. There isn't anything new going on here. You and your dh need to figure out where your boundaries are going to be. And yes I would be mad.  :grouphug:

[zoobie]

I do think there's something wrong, but nobody else seems to, including FIL (they were married 30+ years before they divorced and remain on good terms). DH says, "Of course there's something wrong with her -- she's got no &*^% sense!" She's been like this his whole life. I wouldn't begin to know what you'd call it -- there's some OCD-type stuff, but mostly she's just flat-out dumb, and selfish and disrespectful to boot.

 

The secrecy thing is a serious problem, though. This is not the first time she's told DD not to tell us something. But the last time (that I know of), DD was about 4, and the secret was that MIL let her make peanut butter and ice-cream sprinkle sandwiches for lunch on the days she baby-sat. Which I wasn't happy about, but I didn't see it as a major problem. Maybe I should have.

 

At this point, I don't even think I can trust her to keep the kids for a few hours. Which is unfortunate, as she is the only grandparent who is readily available during the week. And I know she loves the kids. But this is unacceptable.

Overspending can be a characteristic of a few issues including OCD and Borderline Personality Disorder. Based on her manipulativeness and instability, I'd look at the latter and how family members can deal with it. Obviously not a diagnosis of any sort, but you might find ways to cope. Usually with BPD, the only thing you can do is set and enforce boundaries. :(

[PeachyDoodle]

Overspending can be a characteristic of a few issues including OCD and Borderline Personality Disorder. Based on her manipulativeness and instability, I'd look at the latter and how family members can deal with it. Obviously not a diagnosis of any sort, but you might find ways to cope. Usually with BPD, the only thing you can do is set and enforce boundaries. :(

 

Honestly, I can't even begin to describe her. Based on the (admittedly VERY little) I know about NPD and BPD, neither seems to fit exactly. Both of those seem to describe people who intentionally manipulate, but MIL is so dumb I just can't imagine her having some master plan, if that makes sense.

 

She really lives in another world. It's like she concocts a fantasy for herself. Sometimes that's around things she wishes were true (e.g., she can afford to spend money on whatever she wants and decide to take DD on a fancy vacation without our permission) and sometimes it's around things she fears. What I call OCD tendencies may not be related to OCD at all, and actually related to this alternate reality, I'm not sure. For example, she has to unplug certain appliances every night, but not others, because in her mind those particular appliances are "dangerous." She keeps a cup of water in her microwave at all times, in case the microwave accidentally turns on. She obsesses over having cancer but chain-smokes like a chimney.

 

Shortly before DH and I were married, she up and announced that she was moving out of the house she shared with FIL and into an apartment. I remember the day clearly, and I remember DH laughing when she said it. Turns out it was not a joke. She had become obsessed with meeting people in online chat rooms for quite awhile before that (this was in the early days of the Internet), and she turned her apartment into some kind of fantasy zone where she could spend 12-18 hours a day chatting online. No one in the family was allowed in her home. DH was in college at the time, and she was supposed to give him money for his school books, so he and I stopped by when we were out to pick it up (unannounced, but this was his MOTHER). She was ANGRY that we would dare come there. She handed him a check through a crack in the door with the chain lock still attached. She was visibly disgusted that he would need her support in any way (he was 19). She also refused routinely to give him grocery money. He was living in an apartment instead of with his dad because his brother couldn't afford a place their mother thought was suitable for him, so her solution was to move DH in so she and FIL could continue to support BIL without wounding his pride. They didn't want DH to work because he struggled academically. During that time, DH got two meals a day at best, and usually one of those was at my parents' house. My mother used to box up extra groceries for him so he'd have a little something to eat at home.

 

During that same time period, she was driving 100 miles to take a random person she knew from her chat rooms to doctors' appointments but couldn't be bothered to visit her gravely ill MIL in the hospital up the street. During the whole separation, FIL was making every effort to salvage their marriage -- taking her on vacations and to concerts, trying to discuss their issues, asking her to go to marriage counseling -- and she continually blamed him for their problems, saying he never did anything for her. Meanwhile (and this only came out later) she had flings with at least two other men.

 

It ebbs and flows. After a couple of relatively quiet years, she hooked up with some loser guy that she let move into her house. No one knew anything about him. At Christmas that year, her family decided at the last minute to change the time of their celebration. This was a major problem for DH and me, because all of our family is close by, at the time all of our grandparents were living, and we spent the holidays running from one house to the next, as we were expected to put in an appearance everywhere. We told her we would have to come late to her family's gathering. She was furious, even called FIL and demanded that he make DH change his plans, but in the end we reached an agreement to leave my family's party 30 minutes earlier than planned in order to be at her family's party earlier. When we arrived, we discovered that she had left and gone to visit the boyfriend's mother in a town an hour away. She didn't even see DH for Christmas, after all that. The loser boyfriend later stole her TV and a box of her checks and disappeared.

 

Typing all this out, I look at it and go, this is really CRAZY. Who lives like this? And there's more. But there are also long stretches when things seem relatively normal. But she has been downright cruel to DH at times. How he still loves her is beyond me. He doesn't even seem to see it, but maybe he's just numb to it. I told him years ago during one of her stints that he is an adult, and if he chooses to continue to see her, that is his decision. But if she ever treated my children the way she was treating him, she wouldn't ever see them again. Unfortunately, we may be nearing that point.

 

DH wants to tell her she's not welcome for Christmas. I hate to see my children lose their grandmother. But right now I'm not sure if that's not best for them in the end.

 

As far as what to do with her if/when she goes broke, I guess we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it. But no way can this woman live in my house. We will have to find some other alternative.

 

[gardenmom5]

has your mil always been this manipulative?  do end-runs around people to get what she wants? heedless of consequences of her actions?  disrespectful of other people?  

 

if this is new - I would urge she be checked for beginning dementia/brain changes of some type.

if she's always been this way - start teaching your children about boundaries - NOW. they will meet other people with boundary issues, and they need to know how to defend themselves.

 

assure your dd this is all about grandma (and big people things she will better understand when she's older.) 

 

she's lost the privilege of being unsupervised around your children - and that includes phone calls.  you or your dh must be there for every single encounter, and every single phone call.  if she complains - tough.  if she tries to do another end run - protect your children, even if that means you don't allow her to talk to them on the phone for a period of time - just like you'd ground a disobedient teen.

 

eta: bpd, npd, etc. don't intentionally manipulate in the way *we* think of as being intentional (- those people are true sociopaths,)  their's is more subconcious - and they've so rewritten reality that to them, their manipulation becomes rational.

 

and I agree, from what you've said - the same methods used to deal with npd/bpd people would be helpful.

Edited November 27, 2015 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

from further reading of your descriptions - of her, and *how* she relates to her children and husband,  I'd strongly suspect some type of personality disorder.  start reading, and learn what you need to know for boundaries to protect your children, and yourselves.  once you do those things - you will be in a better postion to maybe be able to help her.  sometimes -the best help, for them (and you), you can offer IS from a distance.

[Seasider]

http://narcissistsupport.com/narcissists-top-manipulation-techniques/

^ triangulation

[gardenmom5]

one of the biggest tools of the personality disordered person - making you questions YOUR perceptions of reality.   (it is common for those who grow up with this to think *they* are the one who is crazy.  or a horrible person for thinking ill of a what is a manipulative person.)

 

those on the outside - meaning, people who do not have frequent and intimate contact with whom the person at some point feels in a position of influence/or power., those on the outside - rarely see the person for who they really are.  manipulative, controlling, petulant, demeaning ,  . .   .

[Aiden]

My fil has issues that, while not as bad as your mil's, make it likely that he will need a place to live one day and extremely unlikely that I will be willing to have him in my house, with or without my daughter here.

 

My husband agrees with me. He helped his father file for social security so that he would have some income every month to pay his rent and to buy a basic amount of groceries. For now, when he needs more money, my husband offers him a "job" (usually cleaning parts of his own disgusting home--if he takes before and after pictures of a bathroom, for example, we'll send him $50), but he usually gets offended and won't take the job. Fine by us, as it saves us the money and shows that apparently the "need" isn't that great after all. If it comes to it in the future, we will supplement his income regularly either by paying a portion of his rent directly or by sending him gift cards to a grocery store. And he's not living with us. Perhaps those are the types of options you can explore in planning for your MIL's future needs?

 

I think you're doing the right thing by not allowing her to take your daughter on this trip or anywhere else. She needs to be banned from unsupervised access to your children immediately and indefinitely.

[mumto2]

Only read op well but no way would my child go 9 hours away without my approval. The fact dd kept grandmas secret is enough to get her in trouble also. Maybe not huge but certainly part of the cancellation explanation to her.

[Carrie12345]

This is my mil, too.  Secrets, favoritism, money, disrespect. I'm very, very sorry.

 

We go through stages of cutting her off, limiting contact, increasing contact with heavy supervision... None of the options are perfect, but we pick whatever's most needed at the time.  It does get harder as the kids get older.  My 17yo speaks to her and sees her frequently.  My 12 and 13yos have given her their phone number, emails, Skype info... It is very hard for them to maintain their own boundaries with someone they love.  It's hard for grown adults even when they've reached their limit, so teen brains don't exactly help! Which is why we have many, many conversations about "appropriateness" with them, and monitor as best as we can.  The earlier you start, the better, because it doesn't go away, and the kids are going to have to handle it on their own some day.

[bettyandbob]

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Like others have said you need to limit contact. I would only have this person visit my do when I was present. No one on one outings.

 

I just took my dd and youngest ds to universal studios. It is a big deal. It took me a while to save for that trip and I planned it down to the gas for the 12 hour drive. Even if I'd had a free place to stay, it would have taken time to save for the trip. Your dd will appreciate the trip when you are ready to do it. Mine had a blast at 17.

[TammyS]

 

 

Typing all this out, I look at it and go, this is really CRAZY. Who lives like this? And there's more. But there are also long stretches when things seem relatively normal. But she has been downright cruel to DH at times. How he still loves her is beyond me. He doesn't even seem to see it, but maybe he's just numb to it. I told him years ago during one of her stints that he is an adult, and if he chooses to continue to see her, that is his decision. But if she ever treated my children the way she was treating him, she wouldn't ever see them again. Unfortunately, we may be nearing that point.

 

DH wants to tell her she's not welcome for Christmas. I hate to see my children lose their grandmother. But right now I'm not sure if that's not best for them in the end.

 

 

 

You're not crazy.  Your MIL lives like that, that's who (and I'm starting to wonder if your dh is a sibling that I don't know I have, because your MIL sounds exactly like my mother....she once had a boyfriend who she was visiting in prison, and she couldn't believe that I didn't think this was a good idea).  Crazy people with crazy lives will make you feel crazy, because to them it all seems so normal.

 

I wouldn't outright tell her she's not welcome for Christmas.  That's just asking for a fight. I would just not include her in the plans.  When she asks, just keep putting her off.  Yeah, it's kind of passive-aggressive, but why have a fight with no possibility of a reasonable outcome?

[gardenmom5]

This is my mil, too.  Secrets, favoritism, money, disrespect. I'm very, very sorry.

 

We go through stages of cutting her off, limiting contact, increasing contact with heavy supervision... None of the options are perfect, but we pick whatever's most needed at the time.  It does get harder as the kids get older.  My 17yo speaks to her and sees her frequently.  My 12 and 13yos have given her their phone number, emails, Skype info... It is very hard for them to maintain their own boundaries with someone they love.  It's hard for grown adults even when they've reached their limit, so teen brains don't exactly help! Which is why we have many, many conversations about "appropriateness" with them, and monitor as best as we can.  The earlier you start, the better, because it doesn't go away, and the kids are going to have to handle it on their own some day.

 

my mother was an only child - so she got the full force of my grandmother.  my sister was the favorite/victim - and it completely messed her up because she didn't see it when she was young enough to break away.  I'm not sure she could see it now, and she's near 60.

OP - you have to start early with what appropriate boundaries are, and how to enforce them. you also need to let your kids know what your mil does that is inappropriate.  you can explain you can love someone - and not like or condone what they do. 

 

eta: my mil is nuts, and has many of the make-YOU-crazy traits.  she lived with us once - never again.  she currently lives with my sil.  (sil is paid.).  I was talking to dniece/sil'sdd. I commented you couldn't pay ME $1M to have her in my home.  dniece/sil's dd - added - a day.

Edited November 27, 2015 by gardenmom5

[PeachyDoodle]

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Like others have said you need to limit contact. I would only have this person visit my do when I was present. No one on one outings.

 

I just took my dd and youngest ds to universal studios. It is a big deal. It took me a while to save for that trip and I planned it down to the gas for the 12 hour drive. Even if I'd had a free place to stay, it would have taken time to save for the trip. Your dd will appreciate the trip when you are ready to do it. Mine had a blast at 17.

 

That makes me feel better. It took us a year to plan and save for WDW. It will be several years before we are able to go back. But we have already said that we will try to take one more trip before DD graduates from high school. Our plan was to make the trip once when DS was old enough to enjoy it and DD still young enough to have a child's experience of "Disney magic" -- which was a limited window for us given their age gap. Our next trip will be with teens, which will give us a totally different type of experience. We will do Universal that time around. Hopefully by then DS will also be a HP fan, and we can all enjoy WWoHP together.

 

MIL (at one point -- before the revelation the DD knew about the trip) said we could come along and bring DS, but that's not possible financially right now.

 

[kroe1]

Do what you want. It is your kid. No matter what decision you make, there will be pluses.

[Lady Florida.]

I would be livid too, OP. It sounds like you hope to eventually make the trip with your dd, so I would let her down easy by letting her know that. MIL, I just don't know how I'd handle that as far as what to say, but there would be NO WAY now that she'd take my child on that (or probably any) trip.

[Catwoman]

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, Peachy. :(

 

It was such a rotten thing for your MIL to put your dd in the middle of this.