LiPS Manual 3rd vs 4th ed

[Mom28GreatKids]

Hey Ladies,

 

I am wondering how vital it would be to obtain the newest edition of the LiPS manual? I have found several used copies of the the 3rd ed at reasonable prices. What do you think? Anyone compare the differences? Thanks so much.

[PeterPan]

I've only used the newer, but I think somebody said the difference is scripting.  Content the same but 4th has more thorough lesson plans.  I would save up for 4th.

[Mom28GreatKids]

Good to know. Yes, new is usually improved. Too bad it always comes with a price tag.

[PeterPan]

I don't remember what I paid on ebay, but it was reasonable.  Do you know how to save a search on ebay?  You do your search and then tell it to save the search, and it will send you a daily email with the new listings.

 

You're not going to find a lot of used copies, because therapists buy it and hang onto it.  You're waiting for a parent to sell, and basically they're holding onto it for other kids or because they might want to tutor.  

 

No consolation, but the price is paid for LIPS is a *fraction* of what we've spent on everything else.  Years of speech therapy, more materials at home, weekly OT, Barton.  Now going back for behavioral help.  Crazy.  

Edited November 25, 2015 by OhElizabeth

[Crimson Wife]

Check Gander Publishing's Amazon store because they often sell new-but-shelfworn copies of their various manuals. I got the LiPS and Seeing Stars manuals for around $50 each.

[Mom28GreatKids]

Oohhh, thanks CrimsonWife. I will do that. And yes, OhE, I realize it is a drop in the bucket. I almost feel like that with the 1k for OG training, especially if it equips me to teach him well.

[PeterPan]

I'm just not real band wagony with the OG, because it leaves you knowing the whole approach but having to write your lesson plans.  With Barton, you have the lessons handed to you.  Not custom, granted, but they work well for some kids, many kids.  

 

It's just choices we make.  There's not really a wrong or right there, just what we think fits our situation best.

Edited November 25, 2015 by OhElizabeth

[Kat w]

Can I ask? ....my son has a significant speech impediment. As his vocab grows...we have to work even more on it. And honestly ...we've had private and PS SPT and it doesn't seem to be complete. I realize his speech needs alot of work but ...idk. It's just always coming up like I said as Hi vocab grows.

 

Do I really need to buy the complete LiPS kit? Could I just get the manual and the picture cards do you think?

 

I've been doing speech with him as homework since he became verbal at almost 4. We haven't been i. Speech since Feb. But both private and public had released him or were getting ready to....and the GP can't understand him and its a great source of anxiety, shyness and leads to lack of confidence for him.

 

What ya think?

[PeterPan]

Kat, you might want to start a new thread with your question.  The jist is that if a dc isn't speaking till almost 4 and is still unintelligible even when his speech comes in, he either had a *delay* or *apraxia*.  They're different things.  Apraxia is a motor planning problem and doesn't respond well to traditional therapy, which is why kids will continue to have problems.

 

AIf this dc is 9, he should be 100% intelligible.  Intelligible doesn't mean having all your sounds (articulation).  Intelligibility is more complex, involving the prosody and rhythm of speech, how things flow, just everything together.  Even if he's missing sounds or has a lisp or loses some teeth and can't make sounds or whatever, he should still be *intelligible*, meaning people get what he says without asking him to repeat.  If he is not 100% intelligible at age 9, he should be getting therapy.

 

PROMPT is the method of choice for apraxia.  But you know that because I say it so much.  :D

[Kat w]

Yea, no. This is the 11 y.o. I'm talking about lol.

Yup. PS spt dismissed him from speech. I was appalled...simply appauled. That's when I pulled them out.

The therapists basically ' graduated' both boys from all help when the 11 to hit 4th and 9 to hit 3 rd. They only went for 3 weeks of that school yr. Came home and made huge strides but honestly....they were soooo far behind in everything.

 

The private spt was still working with him until they closed w short notice.

 

Yes. I do need to start a thread....I haven't been successful with that though. Ppl don't answer. I think it's b/c maybe they just don't know how to help. :/ we have gotten alot of that over the years.

 

Yup. Gen pop can't understand him....dismissed from speech. K. Makes sense lol.

 

He was diagnosed with apraxia. When the best place around closed their doors....i did at home the 'homework' we did when he was in therapy.

 

Sigh.

[Kat w]

No sry. They were 2 Nd and 3 rd

[Crimson Wife]

 

AIf this dc is 9, he should be 100% intelligible.  Intelligible doesn't mean having all your sounds (articulation).  Intelligibility is more complex, involving the prosody and rhythm of speech, how things flow, just everything together.  Even if he's missing sounds or has a lisp or loses some teeth and can't make sounds or whatever, he should still be *intelligible*, meaning people get what he says without asking him to repeat.  If he is not 100% intelligible at age 9, he should be getting therapy.

 

Yes, this. My little one has articulation issues and unfortunately they've gotten worse as her hearing has deteriorated. But she is probably 95%+ intelligible. Mostly when people ask her to clarify what she's said it is because of a semantics (word choice) or syntax (grammar) error rather than an articulation error.

 

Definitely try to find a SLP who specializes in apraxia for at least an evaluation. PROMPT is a good option but I have also heard positive things about Kaufman if that method is more readily available where you live.

[PeterPan]

Kat, to find PROMPT, you go to the PROMPT Institute website and use their interactive maps.  There are different levels of training, so that's why they have so many different maps.  Don't just ask people if they do it or not, because they'll get confused and say oh yeah, I "prompt"...  PROMPT is not "prompting".  There's level 1, advanced, bridging, certified, instructor.  Those are the levels.  Level 1 is somebody who needed a CEU and didn't give a rip about the methodology enough to actually learn it and continue.  I've read the level 1 manual and you wouldn't want me treating your kid.  ;)  So see what you have access to.  

 

Fwiw, look farther than you think you want to go.  You only need PROMPT once a week or once every other week.  So you could drive farther, have them teach you, do double sessions, and make it work.  I drive 2 hours each way.  Used to drive 2 1/2, sigh.  Boy was THAT bad on the waistline, oy.  I've also gone and done a week of intensive, which also can be good.  So like if you're having trouble getting qualified therapy (which used to be the case in our state), then you would go to somewhere farther away, stay say a week or two, and do INTENSIVE therapy, getting therapy twice a day every day during that time.  Can be miraculous for some kids. 

 

So just see what your options are.  Apraxia is motor planning.  Kaufman is flashcards.  Flashcards you can buy in a box.  I know it's a commonly accepted solution, but think through the logic on that one.  You take a kid who has no ability to imitate (the definition of apraxia) and show them flashcards.  Obviously I'm missing something.  Mercifully PROMPT is spreading.  It's just that it takes 2-3 workshops to learn the methodology and years to get certified.  That's on top of the BA and MA.  So flashcards.    But I'm a grump.

[Kat w]

Yes crimson wife. I will do that. He has been in private and public speech since be was 20 mo's. ( learned sign first) . we are waiting on our Jan. Appt. ....starting over. Our facility closed abruptly in Feb. Honestly tho, they were 'the best around' I jus don't think they knew what to do with him exactly. He's made huge strides with continual slow progress since h became verbal few months before be turned 4.

 

I'm not sure if ours used PROMPT or not. It's definitely one ill want , now that I know about it :)

 

They never really were sure he would speak at all so, I suppose I should look at our successes instead of the failures but, I just refuse to accept this for him.

 

In my mind's eye....HE WILL BE INTELLIGBLE. :) I'm stubborn thst way and poor lil guy works sooooo hard. So...hard. And is soooo discouraged. No way I can let him go through his life like this .

[Kat w]

Ya know OhE, I did think about that. Using the word prompt because its used so much with speech kids anyway.

 

What an awesome idea on the travel for week or w/e timeframe needed. I would do that, and I would drive too for what we need. The place we went to was an hour away and be would sooooo meltdown on the ride. He vets really carsick and that I think was a factor. He was sick when he got there (they stopped talking anything vestibular ugh) and sick on the way home. I think he has developed and negative association with speech as a result.

 

SYare in such high demand here. The ps kids went to couldn't keep one. I know of 2 hears he was there they didn't even have one for even half of the school year. And they are the title 1 school for our county.

 

The ST we've had privately have all been young...like...fresh or not long outta school young. None of this has served him well , coupled with the severity of his case....been. Ugh

 

I think I'll call UF tomorrow and see if they do or have on or know of one that uses the brand PROMPT.

That's the correct verbage right? ....brand?

[PeterPan]

Here, blow your mind and see some of ds' recent therapy

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLktMMuhPAFJu07GG414dweIKnEznAZS7J

[PeterPan]

I wouldn't bother calling places to ask. The *reason* is because they will flat out, well let's be polite, they'll flat out be imprecisely accurate.  ;)

 I had one SLP tell me she did "prompt" which to her was ethical to say because it's sorta like yeah I sort like cue them...  Thwack.  Sigh.  

 

See my videos.  That's PROMPT.  It was 10 years old when we started, so like 15 years old now.  When we started 5 years ago, there was 1 person an hour away with level 1 training and a person 2 1/2 hours away who was certified.  Now the ENTIRE SLP STAFF of a major autism school in the big city has gotten every single one of their people trained.  Not yet certified, but gone through all the levels of training.  That's AWESOME.  That's what we need!!!  

 

So no, make life easy.  Looking for a therapist in your area that has been trained in PROMPT? Click here for our interactive maps.  This is where you look.  Don't ask.  If they say they "prompt" and they aren't trained in PROMPT, it ain't the same thing.  And you'll be SHOCKED how less than precisely accurate the answers will be that you'll get when you ask.  So don't ask.  This is the place where they would get the training, so either they've been trained or they haven't.  And the harder the case, the more training you want to see.  Me, I would look for someone who is committed to the process, committed to getting good at it.  That means they've done level 1 or 2 and they're on fire to keep going.  That way they can grow with your dc.  If you can find somebody certified, all the better!  But if you can't, at least somebody who is on fire to learn it and implement it and kick butt with it.

 

When the SLP lays hands on my ds, his speech clears up.  When we first started, he went from nothing to SPEAKING the very first session.  THAT is why I've driven so far for so long, because any technique where you can lay hands on a child and unlock their speech (the communicative intent that was inside that couldn't get out) is a MIRACLE in my book!

 

 

Edited December 2, 2015 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

Poor boy getting sick!!  Is he getting OT?  Not to overload you or anything, lol.  I'm just saying that's something the OT can work on.  With dd it was a vestibular issue.  

[PeterPan]

And yes, it is NOT too much to want intelligibility!  But I'm telling you the reason it didn't work was because you didn't have PROMPT.  Because the problem is motor planning, imitation-based instructions struggle to be effective with apraxia.  PROMPT will be this total seed change of what's going on and how it's being approached.  No more you're bad, you're not trying.  We had to take off a number of months before we got our funding, and they've been working on getting his intelligibility back.  When we eval'd in the spring (while we were off, which we originally did to focus on Barton), his intelligibility was around 80%.  Not as bad as it can get, obviously, but still unpleasant.  So they've been slowing everything down, really working on it, digging in on each sound.  It's just a challenge.

 

The other thing I love about PROMPT, besides the fact that it actually works and is miraculous, is that it's something you can carry over at home.  So then you can make your other times with him more effective.  

Edited December 2, 2015 by OhElizabeth

[Kat w]

Baha ! Imprecisely accurate. ;) tee hee. Yup. Happens. A bunch sometimes.

 

Yes,i can totally see where the exact precise well laid out program makes ALL the difference . I will go to that site tomorrow and check out your lil guy too. That's really amazing its worked that well. Ok. Now I have hope :)

 

The OT ST and the other sons PT were all at the same facility. They had the same OT since they were ...well. The older one was 20 mo and the younger one for in and 5 days of life with this facility. Though I thought that was good because neither son does well with change, but I am beginning to see that maybe ...not so much. Maybe had we switched it up another OT would have not told me no...hea fine w vestibular. Because his original testings were done so young at the children's hospital . ( he had alot of issues , withdrawal,fas), that some of it was and I'm paraphrasing ....basically inconclusive or needed to be revisited at a later date. That was at the children's hospital in the big city the other direction from us.

 

When I pushed to revisit, he was in ps at age 3. I had him in there the day after his birthday. They said they saw no issue and the private OT thought it was just normal stuff. I don't believe it's normal stuff. But, in her defence, he does mask things very well. He has learned to be an awesome compensator. And we things that he's amazingly great at don't fit the mold for vestibular.

 

I'm going to make sure UF checks allllll that.

 

I can't wait to see your son and go to that website in the morning. I really hope we have one close.

 

You're awesome OhE!!! Thank you much. I do think prompt will make the difference. So. When he would have started ST prompt would have only been about 5 yrs old I'm estimating. Maybe that's why they didn't use it. Idk.

 

I'm just happy its around :)

[Kat w]

I was just thinking , at one time, I had 3 of my 5 kids in therapy at the same facility . hmm. Man. Homework was a brute too. Oldest has mild cerabal palsy. I dunno what they considered ' mild' we sure did go thru alot . even in her teen years she was in speech and PT. Years of casts and braces to correct bone growth and tendon stretching. Poor thing. She had so much pain. Thst is one determined woman tho.

Mind, sharp as a tack. Gifted . seemed a cruel joke I had the gifted child then 2 yrs later a dylexic ADHD and other stuff child.

 

Some days I didn't know if I was comin or going. Total opposite ends of spectrum. I think it prepared me for the boys tho.

 

Anyway. Night ladies and OhE , thank you Sooo much :)

[Kat w]

Oh my word OhE, I just watched the videos of your lil guy. That was very touching for me. What s sweet loving spirit he has, can see it oozing from him. I know those sweet spirit kids can be alllll diff at any giv n time. Esp. When they are in a comfortable environment like, with mom :)

 

You've don't good with him. How sweet.

 

No! We never did anything even remotely close to that. My 11 yo mouth is very floppy. Even still and we do all the excersices, chew gum. He can't really handle gum . anything that does muscle exercises for the mouth is very frustrating and he is resistant to. Tho we keep doing them.

 

His mouth and lips are VERY well...floppy. Best way I know to describe it. No clear beginning middle or end sounds. We work everyday at home on it , I tell him...make the sounds that seem very over exaggerated to you an thst will be what most people will understand . he tries but the mouth is soooooo just, on. Ex: when I kiss him like on the side of the mouth it completely 'gives' and he doesn't even feel it. He doesn't have much mouth control even with all the years of therapy. He still drops food out of his mouth when eating ( he doesn't feel it really) still has trouble gauging how much to put in his mouth, chewing, and swallowing. He still has some and will sometimes still abandon the whole attempt at a mouthful of food to plan in his mind. Insert food, chew, swallow , AND BREATHE. he still can't always do thst which is why he chokes sometimes ( scary). We spent years working on this with ST and at home several times a day. This the neuro something ( forget what this particular docs feild of specialty was in the nuero realm) but he said that was FAS. and who knew how successful that would become . they've done brain scans MRI and I think....pet scan?/ ct scan? To rule out obvious neurological problems like a tumor of some sort etc. And they said at the children's hospital when he was 20 mo, that sometimes some kinda of nuero issues ( I forget which ones) can show on a scan. That was new and controversial science at the time. About the nuero issues causing learning problems.

 

We have many gadgets that are designed to help build mouth muscles....chewing. He does sensory seek with thst which ordinarily would be bad but for him its essential so I'm glad he seeks that sensory to be stimulated. Chews on everything....shirts ( all have holes at center collar) straws, just everything.

 

One coalition I have thought about as I type this....when we put him on intuitive to come down from the vyvanse and to help relieve anxiety,he all but quit chewing and that's been a chore. Bingo. That's when his speech stopped making progress. For him...chewing is essential . man. What am I gonna do about thst. He HAS to have that intunive and so does mom. He spirals out of control on meltdowns without it and doesn't sleep, maybe 2-3 hours a night.

 

Hmmm. Crud. Gotta figure thst one out. The vibrating gadgets both boys use, they hate, tho we do them anyway.

 

Funny. My youngest has exact other problem. Cheeks tight as a clamp. All his ST said they've never come across anyone that clamped their cheeks so tight, don't release them and still have the organization problems to eat chew swallow and breath. Both boys have thst same 'planning proble'. Ons w very loose cheeks. One with very tight cheeks. That's why the youngest was so close to failure to thrive. He couldn't breathe and suck a bottle and swallow. He's still not great at it either. Slow water.

 

Older one eats fast to get the ' chore' over with.

 

I checked the map. Closest PROMPT is in D.C. so you saved me slot of time and wasted energy calling around just to show up and find they didn't have it. Thank you.

 

Guess I'll check out what D.C. offers and when. Hey. Time to see my family anyway :) I'll go for as long as needed. We can't keep doing this. I am very sure it is contributing to his frilistrastion level. Like I said. We've worked alot on language . written and spoken and his vocab has grown a ton. With every new word and he uses his new words alot, he has become even more unintelligible . =more frustration.

 

Your lil guy is precious OhE.:)

 

I jus had a thoughr

[Kat w]

I'm gonna utube video search examples of prompt lessons. Wouldn't hurt and I'm sure would help until we can find something in D.C.

 

I know this plays into his reading deficit too. He just can't say the words and he knows it

[Kat w]

I just thought of something too. I wonder if he still has small brain seizures. They thought he was over thst and I did too . he would get this really spaced out loom in his eyes and just...check out for a bit. I'd coax him, or try, to snap Jim back. Sometimes I think it worked , others not really. This is common with ...man. Guess I'm gonna go where I really didn't wanna go publicly , but you never know who might be struggling with these same issues. Anyway. Thwy say its common with babies / children born addicted to crack. BM ( birthmom) admitted to living on a crack Binge. Horrible habit and she ' paid' for her drugs I'm certain ways which is what allowed her to financially be able to consume the large amounts . we are actually very fortunate he doesn't have worse seizures, and epilepsy, brain bleeds, all very common in babies/kids born addicted to this drug. That's why they did ( part of the reason) they did yearly brain scans on him when he was younger at the children's hospital . on time they did catch a small seizure on some sort of scan. So, we know for sure he had them. Thougjt that was behind us but maybe not. The mouth is a small indicator it happens. Hmm.

[Mom28GreatKids]

Kat w, It sounds like your older one has oral Apraxia as well as verbal? My son has symptoms of a slight oral Apraxia in addition to the suspected verbal. He still drools, puts too much food in his mouth, and has a tongue protrusion (that I never noticed, but the SLP did right away). Oh fun fun fun. It is nice that there are folks here going through the same thing.

[Kat w]

Wow. Mom28, I didn't realize there was a difference.

 

My youngest the 9yo has a significant tongue protrusion. It's starting to push out his upper teeth. He still sits when not paying ATTN or being reminded.....with his head cocked to the side , tongue out and drool.

 

Gosh.I really haven't wanted to say that. It sounds bad. :/ when he's watching t.v. or anything that he's not actively engaged....that's what he does. I took him to the orthodontist , I knew it was his tongue doing it but hoped our ortho could convince him to pay better atrn. He didn't charge us. All my older kids had braces through him.

 

It didn't work.

 

Nd yea, the older one has just...no tone. Strange tho , the one with floppy cheeks doesn't stick out his tongue.

The one who still to this day keels his cheeks clamped tight...protuded the tongue...oh. I remember now. Thwy said its cuz clamping the cheeks he didn't have room for the tongue probably lol. Ouy. Yes. Great fun.

 

I did not understand there was a difference in oral and verbal.

 

They went and heve gone over different dypraxias with me but....glossing over really. Noone wants to discourage me. I need to know though.

 

Have you used those vibraty things on the inside and outside cheeks and tounge? We still use ours at least 2 times a day. They hate it. I'm not a fan either. Thwy still have tendency to back their head off from it etc.

 

I'm sure it's working in some fashion. The younger one speaks better....the older one has made much slower progress but man. It's a huge chore.

[Kat w]

And yes, nice to know not alone.

Hate it for the person going through it tho :/ :)

[Kat w]

Oh, and the younger one who keeps his cheeks clamped tight has 9! ...count em9!!!! Cavities in the back 4 areas. ( top and bottom , both sides) I couldn't believe it. In 7 mo. That's how many he had. I no longer let him brush his teeth by himself. Ugh.

 

The one who has low mouth tone has not a one cavity...but. Has had to have 2 baby teeth pulled cuz they were coming I'm sideways. Straight up ...sideways.

Mo money mo money mo money lol

Edited December 2, 2015 by Kat w

[PeterPan]

That's a challenging situation!  Yes, you'll need to brush his teeth.  Try Spry gum.  The pieces are small, and you only chew it for about 10 minutes, 15 at the max.  Might be easier for him to chew with the low oral tone, and the xylitol will be good for the cavities.

 

The funky tightness could be trying to *stabilize* areas that are really loose.  I mean, obviously you need a PROMPT specialist to sort it out.  If you're going to travel, make sure the person has enough training to be worth traveling for, that's for sure.  Anyways, that's something they can sort out.  Our SLP does PROMPT and feeding.  They go together, unfortunately.  Ds is fortunate that his feeding issues mostly improved with his ST and the straw bloks and stuff.

 

Looks like there are a TON of certified therapists if DC is near (or somewhat near) you, wow.  And you know just call different people and see who you're comfortable with.  The SLP will indeed *teach* you things, but it's so hands-on it's not really practical for you to watch a video and just bam do it.  You can actually confuse their brains doing that.  A child with apraxia will have extremely limited ability to imitate or to motor plan just given verbal inputs.  They actually need the physical inputs.  So, to me, I wouldn't put them in the position where it seems like you're saying "try harder" kwim?  I just wouldn't.  I'd wait till you can get the proper physical supports and then let it happen naturally.

[Kat w]

Ohhhh, good point , I didn't think about that. Makes sense.

There are? ...goodie :) I hadn't thought far enough ahead I guess to think about calling them. :/ you're right though I will definitely have to do that.

 

Yes, another good point . if I'm gonna travel, I'll need to look for the highest qualified that I can get.

 

Sure hope ....I wouldn't have to wait til summer you don't think huh? It's not like training.... I should be able o do it before summer you'd think huh?

 

The spry gum...never beard of it. Do I have to get them o line? From a dentist?

 

Yea. I was not happy about his cavities. I should have known though that he wasn't getting those back teeth very well. He has when we try to go too far back with that vibraty wand.

 

I took the responsibility away from him til we can get something under control.

 

Thsts an interesting point.....possibly overcompensating for low tone. Has perplexed his therapists as to why everything else is low tone except his mouth?? Àhhhhh. And would also make sense with the tongue protrusion. Like....you don't have control of your tongue unless your focusing on it???

But your cheeks are clamped tight?? Made no sense. I bet that's it. Overcompensating .

 

His being born straight as a board...I mean. Straight as a board....didn't move. Didn't cry. Didn't eat. Didnt move his head...nothin.

Took months and months of therapy for him to plan enough to...move. And now he's flexible. Still needs to build tone and ..whew. Curved back...posture real problem.

 

We put him up on the horse and that's the only time its better. Even then its not where it should be.

[Kat w]

Man OhE. That as I think about it makes TOTAL sense! The clamped cheeks. Bes had how many ST and noone ever thought of this?? All they said when I'd ask was...idk. Never seen it before.

 

I ber he never figured out how to plan that one...and he still only breaths through his mouth.

 

How does one get ' graduated' from speech with this going on. Ugh.

 

The private was still working with him but, they closed.

 

This year has been stressful. I did not feel like I could start all over again finding therapists and the boys...so don't like change . huh. I really bet that's it.

[Kat w]

Oh. I'm in Florida. D.c. is bout 600 and change mules from me but I was born and raised there. All my family is still there.

Wonder how long is need to be there.

[PeterPan]

Yup, I'd be looking for certified.  There were TONS of certified therapists in the DC area, so I really think you can find someone.  If that's hard to get to, then you know like look for someone with the level 2 training who is closer.  Anybody who has a commitment to learning would be better than nothing.  I don't think you're going to make progress moving among regular therapists.  But yeah, if you went and did a week, then took off a month or two, then went back and did another week, that could get you somewhere.  I know, I'm spending your money.  Just saying, see what you can find on the map.  These people will talk with you, so call and talk with them!  The more you ask, the more you learn, kwim?  That's what I do all the time.  I just call and be dumb, cuz I do dumb real well.  :D

[PeterPan]

Uh, maybe recheck the maps? Maybe you clicked the wrong ones?  For some reason, if you click a different region and try to move around, the therapists in the other areas won't show, go figure.

 

 Bridging South Eastern U.S.  This shows a bunch of people who have done Bridging (advanced) in Florida.  People who have done Bridging have demonstrated serious commitment to learn the process, and some will be working on getting certified.

 

https://batchgeo.com/map/fef3359fc9b052fdde2b102393630b90

 

This 2nd link shows the certified providers map.  There are 3, all in southern Florida.

 

If all else fails, there seem to be like 100 people have done the Intro to PROMPT class.  Like I said, that's not enough training and experience to help your kids.  But if you've got somebody on fire and they're pursuing the training and commiting to learn and do the rest of the workshops SOON, that could work, kwim?  https://batchgeo.com/map/ba44b329c170a71cb4dccb154dd14860

 

So that's a TON of options for you.  Surely somebody on there is close?  Like I'm seeing them everywhere but in your alligator swamps, hehe...  

Edited December 3, 2015 by OhElizabeth

[Kat w]

What? I went to the link and only looked at the lil orange poppers on the u.s. map.

Ah man cool.

Baha ...."uh....did ya look at the map" ...dat was funny :)

I'm electronic lly challenged! Ha-ha ':)

 

Good. Man. I didn't wanna go to D.C. there's a reason I moved.

 

I'll go to these links now.

Told you....I dunno what I'm doin on a computer! Lol.

Tanx :)

[PeterPan]

I know, I so totally have to redact myself sometimes.   :lol:

 

But seriously, their maps ARE screwy.  I totally get why you didn't find it.  But now you have it.  That should arm you with lots of options!  :D

[Kat w]

Oh....ha-ha. Noooowww I see more orange poppers lol

 

Wonder if my phone didn't load it all ...yea yea....lets go with dat one lol ;)

[Kat w]

Uhhhh.....there's some in my area even.

 

DOH!!! *slaps forward with hand* Baha.

 

K. Off to look. Thanks a bunch!

 

*skips away stupidly happy*

:)

[PeterPan]

Happy is good!  :D

[Kat w]

Ohhhh woooowwww!

 

There's one in the town 2 towns over from me...that's even closer than where we went to the other place!

 

I shpulda got my bootie on this board when I first found it.

 

I could cry....a happy cry. So glad. My sweet lil son ( esp the 11 yo) will finally get something I think will help him.

You da bomb :)

[PeterPan]

You do know that things that are long set in TAKE A WHILE, right?  But yes, whatever can be done, will be done, and PROMPT is the tool you were looking for.  It wasn't available when you started and now it is.  So go get it!!!   :)

 

Keep us posted!  :D

Edited December 3, 2015 by OhElizabeth

[Kat w]

Yea. :) I do.

I'm just feeling relived there is someone close. I don't mind doing the homework...go more than once a week, I'll do what we have to to get optimum results....jus so so happy there's a light at the end of the tunnel .

 

Watching the video of your son, I know at first there will be adjustment ( touching their mouths) but, he's so discouraged over his speech. I see it starting to affect him in so many ways.

He becoming less social with anyone really because, they just don't understand him . so he avoids speaking.

 

I'm going to talk to him about it tomorrow and in a positive way letting him know this is different than he's had before and will help him.

 

My 23 to DD told me on thanksgiving ...mama. Thank you for believing in me even when I didn't believe in myself.

That impacted me. Made me look at it and see ...huh. It did work. Blood sweat n tears there.

 

About 3 weeks ago when I noticed him starting to shy away from contact with people ...I talked to him a long time.

I kept encouraging him, well get there babe. You WILL learn to read good and you WILL get that speech going. Then, it'll start to go faster and faster and faster.

 

Bout a week later he was somber thst day. I walked by while he was sitting on the couch....he didn't move his head just looked up at me with his eyes and said in a tone I knew well.....he said " ya promise " . I paused for a minute to make sure he was talking about what I thought he was talking about...

I said yes babe. I promise. And hugged and kissed him.

 

It dawned on me then. He's afraid....hell never be able to read it speak very well. He doubted himself.

Doubt is the root of failure I believe.

I've always told and been behind my kids thru alllll their trials and tribulations telling them....you can do this.

 

I promised thst lil man. WERE DOING IT! :)

 

I might have to remortgage the house to do it lol....but were doing it :)

 

Hey. Ya don't think I'll have to mortgage the house do ya? Cuz I was really kidding bout that part Baha.

Ok. Maybe I wasn't kidding but...one way or another. ...well get it done :) :)

[PeterPan]

Therapy is expensive, sigh.  But these are SLPs, meaning you might be able to get insurance or your state's child insurance to pay for it.  If the ps cannot provide the therapy he needs, technically you can sue them and get them to get someone trained or make them pay for it privately.  But amounts, that's the stickler.  Getting the problem diagnosed, the other stickler.  Our state has a disability scholarship system, which allows you to give up your FAPE and take those dollars for private services.  That's how we're paying for our services now, because yes it's, well it can be very overwhelming when you have so many things going on.

 

What they need to do is do some PROMPT, get that going, then you need to start integrating PROMPT and LIPS.  If he cannot pass the Barton pretest, LIPS is what you need next.  (You said he's not reading, I don't know the full story.)  LIPS plus PROMPT is really, really, really POWERFUL!!!!!!!!!!  Barton has a parent/provider test.  If you are (ahem) dyslexic yourself (I have no clue), then that's one of those things to check, kwim?  If there's any question, take that just to make sure.  Because if you yourself need some support, then when you're interviewing these SLPs you're looking for someone who is willing to learn LIPS and SMART enough to do LIPS with PROMPT (just being blunt) and who has enough hours in their schedule to provide that.  Does that make sense?  You *can* do it at home and you're smart enough.  It's actually really FUN!  Because the idea is that you can bring in the physical inputs of PROMPT and do them WITH the LIPS process.  Does that make sense?  So literally, you can say a sound, give them the input to help them make the sound, say this is how it feels, this is how it looks, you do the PROMPT on me and I'll do it, now let's slow down and break apart words like "am" and FEEL it and SEE it and mark it with the mouth pictures...  It's really, really amazing, powerful stuff.  

 

So that was all to say, if he needs LIPS (I don't know, I'm asking), then figure out *who* is doing the LIPS.  If he needs LIPS, then the person who is going to do LIPS needs to learn enough of the PROMPT methodology to be able to bring it into his LIPS and into his reading instruction.  That person can be you or a reading interventionist or whoever.  I'm just saying that's what you want to make happen.  THAT will make things click in powerful ways.  So if that's going to be *you*, then your next problem is clearing your schedule so that *you* can sit in on Every Single Session of his PROMPT therapy.  That will be super valuable to you, because then you can study and watch and learn.  They'll bring you over the last 10 minutes and teach you (modified, simplified) prompts so you can do it at home!  Some of these are super easy.  Some are wicked complex.  Like the L and R, anything where you're lifting the tongue, those are tricky because you have this tiny muscle called the myehieloid (which I obviously can't spell!) and you're touching very precise places on it to tell the tongue where to lift.  You're not going to do that.  But just jaw support (used for all the vowels, ALL!), retraction for s/z, lips for p/b/m, nasals for n/ng, these are super easy.  They can teach you the input for voiced/voiceless.  Do you see the EXTREME power here?  You can literally totally bypass the hearing problem and give him sensory input that tells the brain this is what I mean.  And you can work through most of the LIPS material this way.  Only a few sounds will be too tricky for you to prompt.  *Most* you can do yourself as they teach you, as he acquires them.

 

Have you seen Kbutton's post on the use of hearing aids and FM for APD/CAPD?  It's innovative, but it can make a BIG difference on their speech!  I'm just brainstorming here, but I think you could get something like that going and make your work with him, make the therapist's work even MORE effective.  You have so many things to balance here.  Like get the SLP to agree to wear an FM unit.  That way he's hearing it more clearly.  Or, I mean nobody talks about this, but why can't some of this new technology make this easier?  Like can she wear just a simple $18 head speaker unit from Best Buy (you know, the kind people use to do video blogs), have that input go into say their laptop,then have it feed *out* through *another* headset (might have to connect with USB, just thinking here) that the dc then wears.  So then you could use a noise canceling headphones or earbuds for that, and they run $10-$80, depending on what you get.  So I'm saying for $100 maybe sort of a hack, not FM, not radio, not portable, but actually just as good or better, set-up, kwim?  Or the hearing aids.  Experimental, need a university with an expert in that.  We have a couple places in our state with universities doing that kind of work.  You should see her stories!  I'm just thinking when you pair that kind of support, supporting the CAPD issues so he's getting the auditory input more clearly and then pair that with the physical sensory input of the PROMPT and the analysis of the LIPS, that could be really powerful.  

 

And yes, you go with this.  It's so hard sometimes to stop and visualize our kids as what we want them to be in the future, not where they are now.  And yet, if we DON'T visualize and have that picture of what we're going for, we don't have this thing stopping us saying wow, you're not on track, you need some more skills or more work here or there to keep working toward this.  And I don't know if our pictures in our minds are always prescient or perfect.  I'm willing to be flexible and say wow that wasn't able quite to happen that way, but I'm NOT willing not to dream for him.

[PeterPan]

See if this works.  I wrote this up for an SLP, trying to detail how we blended LIPS and PROMPT and whatnot.  May have included Barton.  I need to reread it and see.  Anyways.  Yup, just went back through.  I brain dumped onto it everything I had been doing with LIPS plus Barton plus PROMPT.  If people want to know how I did LIPS plus PROMPT plus BARTON, this is it.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y26rcrwcp4g57mt/Notes%20on%20LIPS.pdf?dl=0

Edited December 3, 2015 by OhElizabeth

[Kat w]

Thank you for all that. I was thinkin PROMT was going to cost more.

 

No. I'm not dyslexic, thankfully.

He has has SLP, but, any kind of speech therapist in our area are in such high demand..even the public school (title1) which is where we went...didn't always have one employed. Now. According to our state, title 1 has to have one. When I point this out to the principle he said I know. I don't know what to do though, can't find one...we are going to borrow one but we don't get her for 3 more months.

 

At the PS. He did have SLP, privately ,they came and went with ' filling in' by ST. we all just took what we could get. In retrospect, I guess I could have looked for a different facility but, I had friends at others and they all seemed to have the same problem . I think the demand for them is higher here...I'm in Florida (pill mills ran rampat for years, ' get my drift'? ) anyway. My guys based on their diagnosis, SLP is the appropriate facilitator. This PROMPT woman I got the number to off the website u linked, has a GA phone number. In N.FL. . I bet she drives.

 

Almost 2 years ago when I talked with Barton via email, she said he wouldn't be ready based on what I had described. We didn't even take the tests based on thst. O feel like he is closer at a minimun to being able to pass Barton, not sure he actually can tho. Reading is really tough for him. I cant help vut think thst his speech has something to do with thst and the APD. I did order LiPS morning before last. And yes, all that makes perfect sense.

Still typing. Have to post shorter responces (phone will freeze)

[Kat w]

I did not like and would stand outside the door and peep through the window, both our private and ps therapists and we only saw this with speech, did not want parent sitting in, thst is one of the questions I jotted downast nite to ask the PROMPT therapist. I WANT to sit in. He does better when I sit in.

What I have done based on homework they gave us is help shoe his mouth what to do on some things...where the teeth, lips and tongue should be. We do this everyday. For him, poor lil guy, pains me to say this. ..has very little to no feeling in the mouth area. Why feeding is still an issue . :( his PS SLP only...man did I fight this one...only made his goal of 60%. ...60...%.. Boy was I insenced. They set a low goal for my son so they could meet their goal. I told them that. They were silent ( to me, thst was confirmation). They said he had reached thst...he had not . they had a nice tidy lil sheet saying he had tho. Infuriating.

 

Bybassing hearing. I love that. Thst just gave me warm fuzzies. The PS said his hearing was fine. I have seen kbuttons posts on thst tho, I'm sure not all. I have been mulling thst over. I KNOW there are some things he flat out cannot hear. At one point I thought this was obedience issue and, we do have those and alot sometimes. But when I tell my son who LOVES the fair, looms forward to it all year , asks me once a month at least when its coming back ( its always April . the answer is always the same. But his concept of time is...well even with our posted calendars...doesn't get it) when I tell him from 30 ft away. We're going to the

[Kat w]

Fair tomorrow and he doesn't respond....many ...daily examples of things like this...I do believe it's a hearing issue but one thst doesn't show up on conventional tests. So. I am going to be asking UF to test for the finer points of thst. I think he would benefit from a hearing device thst helps him sort the finer points of hearing.

[Kat w]

Thank you for that link. We need to put all these aspects to work at once, I'm sorry 60% is not sufficient for my son.

 

I will look into the ' hack' system you thought of. At this point...that lil man needs all the encouragement he can get.

 

O want the university to look at h with a fresh eye.

 

He's been evaluated by the downtown children's hospital , our private facility , who at one time had an audiologist on staff, then again thru public school. It's always grueling for him and he melts down at some point everytime.

 

Good point you make on bringing in many things like PROMT, LIPS HEARING , ETC. Has been the only way we were successful with language. Though , it was just different curriculums, but we immersed and for many hours a day...

[Kat w]

What's wild about that? He remembers ,...finally....what he's learned. Tho we went the mastery approach. Worked everyday til he got it using multisensory ...but he has rememebred. We haven't covered everything because we went the mastery approach, but I did review often the big picture and where we were going to wind up ( like 8 parts of speech etc)

 

My lil man was diagnosed eventually with I thi

[Kat w]

Think all things ending in 'ia'

 

Dyslexia

Dypraxia ( few diff forms including apraxia)

Dyscalcula

Dysgraphia ( tho we overcame that with the draw write now books)

I can't remember if there are more. Bring out their paperwork so depressed me.

And the PS gave him a label of HFA.

My husband was not a fan of thst one and for controversial reason I can't go into publically.